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Kellydancer
09-29-2008, 01:34 PM
Are you equally disgusted by people who are voting for Obama due to color?

I don't know anyone voting for him due to his color. Everyone I know who's voting for him either normally votes Democratic, or is tired of the Republicans. Black people aren't stupid like you think. I know many people who are African Americans, and not one said they are voting for him because of race. If black people only vote for a black person, why doesn't Alan Keyes do good with them, and why was Bill Clinton popular with black voters?

Eric Stoner
09-29-2008, 01:48 PM
I don't know anyone voting for him due to his color. Everyone I know who's voting for him either normally votes Democratic, or is tired of the Republicans. Black people aren't stupid like you think. I know many people who are African Americans, and not one said they are voting for him because of race. If black people only vote for a black person, why doesn't Alan Keyes do good with them, and why was Bill Clinton popular with black voters?

Let me see if I've got this. Blacks who normally vote Republican ( there are a few) and who believe in low taxes and disagree with Obama about a lot and are still voting for him anyway, because it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for a Black American for President aren't really doing so because Obama is black ? Are you serious ? What about some whites and others who also see it as healthy and beneficial to have a Black President to inter alia better relate to the 3rd World ?

If there are whites who won't for him just because he's black ( and sadly there are ) why can't blacks vote for him just because he's black ?

Kellydancer
09-29-2008, 01:54 PM
Let me see if I've got this. Blacks who normally vote Republican ( there are a few) and who believe in low taxes and disagree with Obama about a lot and are still voting for him anyway, because it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for a Black American for President aren't really doing so because Obama is black ? Are you serious ? What about some whites and others who also see it as healthy and beneficial to have a Black President to inter alia better relate to the 3rd World ?

If there are whites who won't for him just because he's black ( and sadly there are ) why can't blacks vote for him just because he's black ?

I never said anything about black Republicans. I said PEOPLE tired of the Republicans are voting for Obama. I never mentioned race, and in fact these people are longtime WHITE REPUBLICANS. I know many politicians and people involved in politics, and not one said they are voting for Obama because of race. Not one. However, white long time Democrats have told me they aren't voting because of Obama. I know exactly ONE BLACK REPUBLICAN and she isn't voting at all.

Eric Stoner
09-29-2008, 02:21 PM
I never said anything about black Republicans. I said PEOPLE tired of the Republicans are voting for Obama. I never mentioned race, and in fact these people are longtime WHITE REPUBLICANS. I know many politicians and people involved in politics, and not one said they are voting for Obama because of race. Not one. However, white long time Democrats have told me they aren't voting because of Obama. I know exactly ONE BLACK REPUBLICAN and she isn't voting at all.

It wasn't just addressed to you although YOU are relying entirely on your own anecdotal experience as opposed to what the polls are saying.

Kellydancer
09-29-2008, 02:35 PM
I was applying because you quoted me. In most cases, that means you were addressing my comments. That's funny, I haven't seen any polls saying people were voting for Obama because of his race.

Eric Stoner
09-29-2008, 02:50 PM
I was applying because you quoted me. In most cases, that means you were addressing my comments. That's funny, I haven't seen any polls saying people were voting for Obama because of his race.

Read the numbers. Some are showing him getting almost 100 % of the black vote.
Every black who is otherwise conservative is voting for Obama anyway and has nothing to do with the fact that he's black ? And whites who are usually solid Dem voters who say there is "no way" they'll vote for Obama ? But they'd all let him marry their sisters. Right ?

Budai
09-29-2008, 03:03 PM
And whites who are usually solid Dem voters who say there is "no way" they'll vote for Obama ? But they'd all let him marry their sisters. Right ?

Pssst!

Your pointy white hat is slipping, EriKKK...

Miss_Luscious
09-29-2008, 04:41 PM
Read the numbers. Some are showing him getting almost 100 % of the black vote.
Every black who is otherwise conservative is voting for Obama anyway and has nothing to do with the fact that he's black ? And whites who are usually solid Dem voters who say there is "no way" they'll vote for Obama ? But they'd all let him marry their sisters. Right ?


Democrats usually get about 90% of the black vote. The fact that we have a black person running who is qualified has excited us and yes, our numbers have gone up a few percentage points because black people who usually don't vote at all are coming out for Obama. But let me make this clear, we are not voting for him just because he's black. That while ideas implies that black people are too stupid to make decisions based on anything but race and if that was the case then Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have enjoyed this kind of support in their presidential runs. If you'll remember, Obama did not have as much black support until after Iowa when we saw he really had something going for himself. I didn't support him myself until after SC.

Keep in mind, You're insulting a FUCKLOAD of people when you say stuff like that and you may be mistaken for a small minded racist.

jester214
09-29-2008, 04:45 PM
Democrats usually get about 90% of the black vote. The fact that we have a black person running who is qualified has excited us and yes, our numbers have gone up a few percentage points because black people who usually don't vote at all are coming out for Obama. But let me make this clear, we are not voting for him just because he's black. That while ideas implies that black people are too stupid to make decisions based on anything but race and if that was the case then Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have enjoyed this kind of support in their presidential runs. If you'll remember, Obama did not have as much black support until after Iowa when we saw he really had something going for himself. I didn't support him myself until after SC.

Keep in mind, You're insulting a FUCKLOAD of people when you say stuff like that and you may be mistaken for a small minded racist.

Oh come one, to pretend that Obama is not getting atleast a GOOD bit of NEW voters because of his race is preposterous. They didn't come out like this for Clinton, and African Americans have always been some of his biggest supporters. His base increased when Hillary was gone, not because of anything he did.

bem401
09-29-2008, 04:47 PM
Bem, you're doing it again. What constitutes winning? When will we be finished with what we started? How do we win and why can't we leave if the Iraqis want us gone (they do)?

Also, no I didn't see where Obama said that. Do you have a link?

[url]http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_tried_to_stall_gis_iraq_withdrawal_129150.ht m[url]

There's your link. We will have finished our mission when Iraq is ready to stand on its own, something they are quite nearly able to do right now, if you accept news reports.

jester214
09-29-2008, 04:47 PM
Cool...where can I sign you up to go over to Iraq?

"You spit on every member of the military when you say something like that"

A quote I got from a friend of mine, who wears the uniform and has served in Iraq, when I mentioned your line to him.

By the way, he supports Obama, and is a staunch Democrat.

bem401
09-29-2008, 04:57 PM
I don't know anyone voting for him due to his color. Everyone I know who's voting for him either normally votes Democratic, or is tired of the Republicans. Black people aren't stupid like you think. I know many people who are African Americans, and not one said they are voting for him because of race. If black people only vote for a black person, why doesn't Alan Keyes do good with them, and why was Bill Clinton popular with black voters?

Where did I say Black people are stupid? You said you were disgusted by people voting against him because of race ( post 59 ) and I asked if those voting for him for the same reason were equally disgusting. Unless you are trying to tell me that only white people have a racial bias. I do not personally know any adults who support or oppose Obama strictly because of his race but I am pretty sure there are plenty of them out there.

bem401
09-29-2008, 05:02 PM
. But let me make this clear, we are not voting for him just because he's black. .

ML, you can't speak for everyone in your ethnicity any more than I can speak for everyone in mine. Just because I am not voting against Obama because he is Black does not mean there are not people out there doing it. Likewise, just because your support for him is not based strictly on his race, it doesn't mean others aren't basing their support for him strictly on that.

Miss_Luscious
09-29-2008, 05:04 PM
I'm saying we in the general sense. Not we as in I know the opinion of every black person in America. You know what I meant, you're just being an ass about semantics now.

Budai
09-29-2008, 05:14 PM
"You spit on every member of the military when you say something like that"

A quote I got from a friend of mine, who wears the uniform and has served in Iraq, when I mentioned your line to him.

By the way, he supports Obama, and is a staunch Democrat.

You're a self-described "jester" for a reason!

In fact, you should just wear a monocle and shout, "Bully!" This war was not an act of patriotism and has been a grave waste of lives and resources since Day One, despite your chest-pounding rhetoric and indignant shrieks about treason... ::)

Let me borrow Melonie's scissors and "(snip)" the 2001 satatements of the late Hunter S. Thompson, who is doubtless rotting in that special corner of Hell reserved for those people that don't agree with you, your soldiering buddy in Iraq, or anyone else who threatens your sense of status quo... }:D

(snip) "This is going to be a very expensive war, and Victory is not guaranteed — for anyone, and certainly not for anyone as baffled as George W. Bush. All he knows is that his father started the war a long time ago, and that he, the goofy child-President, has been chosen by Fate and the global Oil industry to finish it Now."(snip)

Hunter S. Thompson (September 12, 2001)

jester214
09-29-2008, 05:21 PM
You're a self-described "jester" for a reason!

In fact, you should just wear a monocle and shout, "Bully!" This war was not an act of patriotism and has been a grave waste of lives and resources since Day One, despite your chest-pounding rhetoric and indignant shrieks about treason... ::)

Let me borrow Melonie's scissors and "(snip)" the 2001 satatements of the late Hunter S. Thompson, who is doubtless rotting in that special corner of Hell reserved for those people that don't agree with you, your soldiering buddy in Iraq, or anyone else who threatens your sense of status quo... }:D

(snip) "This is going to be a very expensive war, and Victory is not guaranteed — for anyone, and certainly not for anyone as baffled as George W. Bush. All he knows is that his father started the war a long time ago, and that he, the goofy child-President, has been chosen by Fate and the global Oil industry to finish it Now."(snip)

Hunter S. Thompson (September 12, 2001)

His statement was not about supporting the war. It's about supporting the fucking soldiers who went over there and died or even served. You're so blind you can't even accept the statement for what it is.

If you don't want to support the war that's fine, it's your right as an American. I happen to support it, also my right.

But if you don't have the fucking decency to atleast support the men and women who are over there, or died over there, then go fuck yourself. They don't have a choice either way.

My friend's statement was in regards to the troops your ignorant fool, not to the war. How fucking dare you condescend his service.

Budai
09-29-2008, 05:37 PM
jester214:

YOU have some decency! Are you reading from a script? Quit performing and suck it up...

jester214
09-29-2008, 05:39 PM
jester214:

YOU have some decency! Are you reading from a script? Quit performing and suck it up...

Fuck you. What kinda pathetic ass insults american troops? Don't be pissed because you screwed up and said something you regret... (hurry up and deny you regret it).

Miss_Luscious
09-29-2008, 05:41 PM
Who insulted troops? What did I miss?

Budai
09-29-2008, 05:44 PM
Fuck you. What kinda pathetic ass insults american troops? Don't be pissed because you screwed up and said something you regret... (hurry up and deny you regret it).

Bravo, jester214!

Is there anything else you'd care to dignify your position with? ;D

jester214
09-29-2008, 05:45 PM
^^^yeah yeah, laugh it off. That's really you're only option left, isn't it?

Budai
09-29-2008, 05:47 PM
^ Well, we certainly can't have an intellectual discussion, can we? Should we compare dick sizes next? :-\

jester214
09-29-2008, 05:53 PM
I can have an intellectual discussion, if the otherside will refrain themselves from taking potshots at our troops for no other reason than they disagree with me. Unfortunately I don't beleive you're capable of that, so I guess we're SOL.

Miss_Luscious
09-29-2008, 05:56 PM
Where did this insult of troops take place? Was it deleted? Clue me in here people so I can be outraged as well!

Budai
09-29-2008, 05:58 PM
I can have an intellectual discussion, if the otherside will refrain themselves from taking potshots at our troops for no other reason than they disagree with me. Unfortunately I don't beleive you're capable of that, so I guess we're SOL.

Yah, oooookay...

jester214
09-29-2008, 06:00 PM
^^I mentioned to a service buddy, SapphireGirl's comment which she reguarly uses "then let me buy you a ticket to go to Iraq" to express her disdain for the war and Bush, and everything else she doesn't like.

My friend who served in Iraq said that statements, and statements like it, insult the all members of the military, regardless of the statements intent. His quote is available in a previous post.

Budai responded, by insulting me, my friend, and in general the troops, by implying that I/my friend, were talking about the war, and not the troops.

jester214
09-29-2008, 06:01 PM
Yah, oooookay... http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/adult/handjob.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-unhappy-smileys.php)


Seriously?? Didn't you just accuse me of being unable to converse seriously?:O You and sapphiregirl must be related.

Budai
09-29-2008, 06:07 PM
Seriously?? Didn't you just accuse me of being unable to converse seriously?:O You and sapphiregirl must be related.

Stooping to your profanity-laced level doesn't work, either? ::)

Okay, I've had my fun (yes, "fun"!), jester214. I will not engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man such as yourself, as I derive no pleasure from abusing the mentally challenged... ;D

I'm off now, to be a husband and father this evening. You know, treasonous bullshit like that... ;)

jester214
09-29-2008, 06:11 PM
^Do your children hate the troops too?

Miss_Luscious
09-29-2008, 06:21 PM
I don't see how what she said implies that she hates the troops. I don't see how anything anyone has posted has insulted the troops. I think you're just doing the faux-outrage thing. Stop it.

sapphiregirl
09-29-2008, 07:06 PM
"You spit on every member of the military when you say something like that"

A quote I got from a friend of mine, who wears the uniform and has served in Iraq, when I mentioned your line to him.

By the way, he supports Obama, and is a staunch Democrat.




You are such an IGNORANT IDIOT! But then you are also so stupid to make statements about Christianity and homosexuality.


I happen to be a cyclist....Cooliest thing I've looked forward too in a while is cycling down the coast with War Veterans....most who are missing limbs.

I also do the AIDS/Lifecycle ride....I'm the one who made sure a recent war veteran from Iraq raised enough funds so he could ride with his wife.

Fuck you and your IGNORANT STATEMENTS!!!

PrettyCurlieQ
09-29-2008, 07:36 PM
Only read OP, and maybe I'm way out of line, but how black is Obama anyways? I know he's not white and maybe that's enough for racists to think badly of him. But all the black guys I know probably wouldn't consider him one of them either. Slippery slope, IMHO.

Miss_Luscious
09-29-2008, 07:39 PM
He's half black/half white but you know how this country sees mixed people (black). Black's are accepting him as one of our own. We take all the good ones we can get.

PrettyCurlieQ
09-29-2008, 07:43 PM
^OIC. I wasn't sure how he was seen from that point of view, I thought he might be an outcast on both sides. Shows how much I know. And I'm of mixed ethnicities, I always feel like I don't fit anywhere. Maybe because of the way he speaks and the fact that he's not wearing South Pole is why I thought he wasn't 'black enough' for one side or the other. And no I don't think every black person speaks ebonics and wears 'urban' clothing, it was just an outsiders opinion.

Budai
09-29-2008, 10:36 PM
^Do your children hate the troops too?



You improvised and came up with that stinging retort all by yourself, didn't you, j-e-s-t-e-r-2-1-4? Actually, my children idolize the troops. I'm just not sure what they'd make of you...

Budai
09-29-2008, 10:55 PM
But all the black guys I know probably wouldn't consider him one of them either. Slippery slope, IMHO.

Where do you live, PCQ?

It seems that you're blending the issues of social class and race. Here in Los Angeles, relatively few "black guys" (myself included) would or could identify directly with a Harvard-educated Presidential candidate. Nevertheless, your closing comment ("Slippery slope, IMHO") intrigued me. How so?

sapphiregirl
09-30-2008, 03:18 AM
^Do your children hate the troops too?


Hey Jester...Learn something...


The Iraqi Military wants OBAMA for President.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km3ZMHCJciA&feature=related

PrettyCurlieQ
09-30-2008, 06:43 AM
...It seems that you're blending the issues of social class and race...
You're right, that's exactly what I'm doing. Maybe it was a mistake posting in the first place. But (and this once again is an outsider's opinion) it seems to me that if I were to judge someone to be 'like me', I'd consider more than the color of their skin.
Race is too blurry for me, because I personally don't see a difference in people because of skin color. I see a difference in actions and self-image, like what they wear, how they speak, etc. And according to what I see in my life (here in West Texas) and what I see of the rest of the country via whatever media source is present, he doesn't seem to fit the profile of 'black'.
Of course there have got to be tons of black men who are highly educated and abhorred by the urban lifestyle and trends. But when I think of race per population, I don't think he's in the majority.
The speech and dress and everything else that I associate with the majority of black people don't present a problem, and they certainly don't mean anything except that there is a different up bringing. A different family circle and a different heritage. And he just doesn't seem to have it. But although I am of mixed ethnicities, I'm not a black American, so it's very possible that I'm just spouting a nonsense opinion for no reason. I just don't buy that there is a 'race card'.

Miss_Luscious
09-30-2008, 07:30 AM
I think a common misconception is that most black people dress, speak and act the way you think they do. Most of us aren't like that. It's just that we are most often represented by that stereotype. There is no "black culture" that we all subscribe to. Obama is certainly darker than me and I'm not directly mixed (both my parents are black albeit lighter skinned) but just because he doesn't seem to fit the "typical black man" mold doesn't make him any less black. It's a shame that many people's perceptions of black people come from some of the worse representations of our race.

Eric Stoner
09-30-2008, 07:42 AM
Pssst!

Your pointy white hat is slipping, EriKKK...

Shame on you !

I simply point out the FACT ; confirmed by reporters who actually talk to working class white Democrats who tell them that they will NOT vote for Obama because he's black and I"M THE RACIST ????????

I'm voting for Obama and if he wanted to marry my sister it would be fine with me. I'd even buy them a dinette set.

PrettyCurlieQ
09-30-2008, 07:46 AM
I think a common misconception is that most black people dress, speak and act the way you think they do. Most of us aren't like that. It's just that we are most often represented by that stereotype. There is no "black culture" that we all subscribe to. Obama is certainly darker than me and I'm not directly mixed (both my parents are black albeit lighter skinned) but just because he doesn't seem to fit the "typical black man" mold doesn't make him any less black. It's a shame that many people's perceptions of black people come from some of the worse representations of our race.
Okay. I'll accept that. I guess all the black people I know are below your standards, then. And not that that's a bad thing, like I said before, I'm no expert on the subject. I'm sure it's a geographical thing as much as anything, right?

Budai
09-30-2008, 07:49 AM
The speech and dress and everything else that I associate with the majority of black people don't present a problem, and they certainly don't mean anything except that there is a different up bringing. A different family circle and a different heritage. And he just doesn't seem to have it. But although I am of mixed ethnicities, I'm not a black American, so it's very possible that I'm just spouting a nonsense opinion for no reason. I just don't buy that there is a 'race card'.

Nicely stated, PCQ... 8)

Like you, I'm a mutt. I have roots in 3 continents (my grandparents were from Nigeria, England and British Guyana) and I live on a fourth. However, this doesn't prevent me from identifying as an African American. To the contrary, it highlights the diversity in this country that encourages people to make assumptions about others that get lumped under the expression "race card"... ;)

As a rule, IMO, our typically crowded and busy modern existences require us to quickly make such decisions based on our past experiences coupled with our present circumstances. We simply don't have the time or energy to interview everyone we encounter in order to gather their detailed life histories and explore their personal philosophies.

Ironically, IMO, the same process also allows some people to make sweeping generalizations about groups--or use expressions like "race card"--in order to minimize the differences that they feel threatened by...

Budai
09-30-2008, 07:54 AM
Shame on you !

I simply point out the FACT ; confirmed by reporters who actually talk to working class white Democrats who tell them that they will NOT vote for Obama because he's black and I"M THE RACIST ????????

I'm voting for Obama and if he wanted to marry my sister it would be fine with me. I'd even buy them a dinette set.

Apologies, if necessary, Stoner. Perhaps I simply misinterpreted your delivery:


Read the numbers. Some are showing him getting almost 100 % of the black vote.
Every black who is otherwise conservative is voting for Obama anyway and has nothing to do with the fact that he's black ? And whites who are usually solid Dem voters who say there is "no way" they'll vote for Obama ? But they'd all let him marry their sisters. Right ?

Could you elaborate, please? I'm a bit dull-witted... :-\

Eric Stoner
09-30-2008, 07:56 AM
Democrats usually get about 90% of the black vote. The fact that we have a black person running who is qualified has excited us and yes, our numbers have gone up a few percentage points because black people who usually don't vote at all are coming out for Obama. But let me make this clear, we are not voting for him just because he's black. That while ideas implies that black people are too stupid to make decisions based on anything but race and if that was the case then Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have enjoyed this kind of support in their presidential runs. If you'll remember, Obama did not have as much black support until after Iowa when we saw he really had something going for himself. I didn't support him myself until after SC.

Keep in mind, You're insulting a FUCKLOAD of people when you say stuff like that and you may be mistaken for a small minded racist.

If normally solid white Democrat voters are NOT voting for Obama because of an issue difference; that's one thing. If they'd rather vote for McCain out of respect for him; that's also acceptable. (Misguided, if you ask me, as I think his POW experience is not relevant to governing but it's understandable.) But like it or not, according to the polls and reports in the N.Y. Times among others, there is a segment of white working class voters in Pa.; Ohio and some other battleground states who have SAID ( THEY said it , NOT ME ) that they won't vote for Obama because he's black. How is that explainable except that they're racists ? That if they're not willing to vote for him just because he's black then they'd probably also freak out if he married their sister. WHY is that so difficult for a few of you to grasp ? I'm the one calling them out as racists and that's how some of you label
ME !
Amazing.
I'd like an apology and a couple of you owe me one.

PrettyCurlieQ
09-30-2008, 07:56 AM
So this might be an insensitive question, how do people who are racist against black people see him? If he is elected will there be a backlash or an assassination, or is that all in the past?

Budai
09-30-2008, 07:58 AM
ME !
Amazing.
I'd like an apology and a couple of you owe me one.


None forthcoming... Read before you post--and sober up, too.

Miss_Luscious
09-30-2008, 08:18 AM
Okay. I'll accept that. I guess all the black people I know are below your standards, then. And not that that's a bad thing, like I said before, I'm no expert on the subject. I'm sure it's a geographical thing as much as anything, right?


I'm not sure what you're getting at. You asked whether he was "black enough" because he doesn't dress, talk, or act like the black people you know and I answered with a more thorough explanation of black people. It has nothing to do with MY standards of black people, I'm just telling you that what many people think of as "black culture" does not represent the vast majority of us. I'm not attacking you, your friends or you ideas. And you are right, it is often geographical but more often it's about class and upbringing. As I see it, race is often the scapegoat for other, deeper issues because it's the easiest to recognize.

Eric Stoner
09-30-2008, 09:02 AM
None forthcoming... Read before you post--and sober up, too.

Don't worry about it. You'd have to have more class and a bit of good grace which you obviously don't. Stick with your name-calling, personal attacks and other silly tactics. All they do is dsitract from whatever little merit most of your arguments might otherwise have.

Budai
09-30-2008, 09:09 AM
Don't worry about it. You'd have to have more class and a bit of good grace which you obviously don't. Stick with your name-calling, personal attacks and other silly tactics. All they do is dsitract from whatever little merit most of your arguments might otherwise have.

Again, your dismissive tone would be more effective had you taken the time to read before you posted. Nevertheless, are you going actually going to address the post(s) preceding your sanctimonious outrage? (see below)


Shame on you !

I simply point out the FACT ; confirmed by reporters who actually talk to working class white Democrats who tell them that they will NOT vote for Obama because he's black and I"M THE RACIST ????????

I'm voting for Obama and if he wanted to marry my sister it would be fine with me. I'd even buy them a dinette set.


Apologies, if necessary, Stoner. Perhaps I simply misinterpreted your delivery:

Could you elaborate, please? I'm a bit dull-witted...


Read the numbers. Some are showing him getting almost 100 % of the black vote.
Every black who is otherwise conservative is voting for Obama anyway and has nothing to do with the fact that he's black ? And whites who are usually solid Dem voters who say there is "no way" they'll vote for Obama ? But they'd all let him marry their sisters. Right ?

REPEAT: Could you elaborate, please? I'm a bit dull-witted... :-\

Eric Stoner
09-30-2008, 09:20 AM
Again, your dismissive tone would be more effective had you taken the time to read before you posted. Nevertheless, are you going actually going to address the post(s) preceding your sanctimonious outrage? (see below)







REPEAT: Could you elaborate, please? I'm a bit dull-witted... :-\

Elaborate on WHAT ? What part didn't you understand ? it's what has been REPORTED in the N.Y. Times and elsewhere. If you want to kill a messenger; go after them.