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Eric Stoner
09-30-2008, 09:09 AM
Are you also forgetting the whole republican majority in congress? Were they all powerless in preventing this mess? I think not.

They did not try. Bush was pushing homeownership on anybody and everybody, just check out this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW9viaJatpo).

40 votes Richard. That's all the Dems needed in the Senate to block any Republican reform effort which they did.

Eric Stoner
09-30-2008, 09:14 AM
You can find a whole bunch of them HERE (http://www.slate.com/id/2200160/). While we're at it how about we throw in every republican who voted for deregulation after deregulation.

Thank you Richard. That Slate article was a very nice re-cap of what I HAVE BEEN POSTING. It totally passed over the DEMOCRAT changed interpretations of the CRA. Up until 1995 the CRA was primarily aspirational. It had no real effective enforcement teeth UNTIL Cuome spoke to Gorelick and Reno who threatened investigations and prosecutions unless banks started writing more mortgages to sub-prime borrowers. It also ignored the role of Republicans in both the House and Senate who did TRY to rein in Fannie and Freddie.

Were there Republicans who benefitted from Fannie and Freddie ? Of course. So what.

The current sub-prime mess was caused by REGULATION; not de-regulation.

Richard_Head
09-30-2008, 07:19 PM
40 votes Richard. That's all the Dems needed in the Senate to block any Republican reform effort which they did.As far as I can tell there was never a vote. How hard did they push on something that wasn't even put up to a vote? Maybe there was no support from other Republicans too? You just don't know.

Richard_Head
09-30-2008, 07:21 PM
Were there Republicans who benefitted from Fannie and Freddie ? Of course. So what.So stop posting that the republicans had nothing to do with it when you know damn well it's not true.


The current sub-prime mess was caused by REGULATION; not de-regulation.I beg to differ.

Eric Stoner
10-01-2008, 07:26 AM
As far as I can tell there was never a vote. How hard did they push on something that wasn't even put up to a vote? Maybe there was no support from other Republicans too? You just don't know.

U.S. Government 101 aka "Congress for Dummies". The Senate has unlimited debate UNLESS there are at least 60 votes for "cloture" to limit debate and get a bill to a vote. To block ANY bill in the Senate from even coming up for a vote; all you need is 41 votes. The Dems had a LOT more than 41 votes.

Eric Stoner
10-01-2008, 08:02 AM
So stop posting that the republicans had nothing to do with it when you know damn well it's not true.

I beg to differ.

They had NOTHING to do with the root causes which was the CRA and Fannie and Freddie. Representative Artur Davis ( Dem. Ala.) former member of the House financial Services Committee admitted yesterday that he and his fellow Dems were " too slow to appreciate the recklessness. I wish my fellow Democrats would acknowledge that they were wrong."

As I've posted , NOBODY had regulatory authority over credit default swaps.
The SEC had questionable authority to regulate how far Investment Banks could go in how far they leveraged themselves i.e debt to capital.

I've never said the Republicans were blameless. Only that the Democrats caused the mess at Fannie and Freddie. Who started these GSE's in the first place ? Whose idea was it to have government guarantee mortgages ?

I've repeatedly explained HOW the CRA started as ASPIRATIONAL. Banks were
ENCOURAGED; not REQUIRED to write sub-prime mortgages. Even Charlie Rangel
OPPOSED the idea of FORCING banks to write mortgages to bad risks. Under the initial legislation in 1977, if a bank wanted to merge or expand the "community" could ask for and get a hearing to complain that said bank was not adequately serving the community. To get approval, all the bank had to show was that they were writing mortgages to minority borrowers and that anyone denied a mortgage did not meet standard lending criteria.

All that changed in 1995 when Clinton was President. Andrew Cuomo at HUD got Janet Reno to issue an A.G.'s Opinion that if a banks borrowers did not include an arbitrary percentage of minorities; then that alone would be evidence of "red-lining" REGARDLESS OF THE QUALITY OF THE RISKS. The banks needed someone to lay off the sub-prime loans on. Silly banks; they like to be paid back. As luck would have it, Jim Johnson had taken over at Fannie Mae and he agreed to have Fannie buy or guarantee the sub-prime mortgages. Fannie Mae was publicly traded. It used to be a rock solid conservative investment because there was an implicit Government guarantee. The first word in the title is "Federal" because it started as a Government agency under FDR before it was spun off and sold by LBJ.

Johnson in turn started securitizing and BUNDLING the mortgages as bonds and selling them on Wall Street. Eveyone along the line was laying off the risk to someone else. At the same time, he, Raines, Gorelick and other execs and board members were pocketing millions a year in bonuses based on how many bonds were sold. So the more sub-prime mortgages were written; the more Fannie bought; the more bonds sold; the bigger the bonuses. Freddie Mac was doing likewise.

This was all started or encouraged by GOVERNMENT forcing the lending of money to people who could not afford to pay it back.It was a house of cards that could not hold up once the housing market was glutted. When defaults occurred, as they were GUARANTEED to do, thousands of foreclosed properties were put on the market swamping the housing market. Home prices fell ( sometimes by MORE than 50% ) and the dominoes started tumbling.

Without two Federally sponsored entities and a dumb interpretation of a dumb Federal law NONE of this would have EVER happened.

The banks wouldn't have written the mortgages. Fannie and Freddie would not have purchased them. The securities would never hjave been sold. Like the Great Depression this was a government created economic mess. This last paragraph is partly MY OPINION but everything else is simple, plain historical FACT. You can ignore it or try to re-write it as you please.

sapphiregirl
10-01-2008, 08:33 PM
Sarah Palin...what the heck is she trying to say? She is a trainwreck.


Does she know ANY decisions the Supreme Court has made...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy_ItccOIek

rozz
10-02-2008, 03:12 AM
OMFG, I can't wait!!!

francescadubois
10-02-2008, 07:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy_ItccOIek

Ok, I don't care WHO you are, this woman is fucking scary... :no:

I like when she asked what newspapers did she read and the bitch said, "All of em."

WTF?!

sapphiregirl
10-02-2008, 12:22 PM
Ugggggggggg....No way, never...

Thank you Joe Biden for saying you will show up at the Human Rights Campaign Dinner in Washington DC.

Will John Mccain and Sarah Palin show up? NOPE!


SAD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfL2l1dk8nA

threlayer
10-02-2008, 08:44 PM
I saw it and she did a LOT better than I thought she would. But I think I'd rather have Biden as the VP.

sapphiregirl
10-02-2008, 09:03 PM
I like Biden....bloopers and all...at least you know where he stands. :3dglasses


Sarah Palin....

- wanting to change the rules of the debate...LOL!!!!!!

- wanting the VP to have more powers- LOL!!!!!!!!!!

- I never want to hear the word "maverick" again

-giving a shout out to personal people during a VP debate in times like this...not cool

-if she does not know an answer, she changes the question and starts talking about energy.


I'm still waiting for John McCain and Sarah Plain to explain in DETAIL how they are going to be different than Bush and the last 8 years.

Helle
10-02-2008, 09:04 PM
My thoughts? I will give her credit: she prepared. She is still a vaccuous moron who has no business being anywhere near the Oval Office unless it's a White House tour but she performed well enough to win over a lot of the undecideds who don't much care about actual intelligence.

Someone on another forum I'm on said (and I agree with): "But I am cynical enough to believe that most Americans don't care about substance. Truly. She has thrown in enough "darns" and "by gollys" and (like has been mentioned) hasn't wet her pants and I think that will be enough to "re-esteem" her in a lot of people's eyes."

sapphiregirl
10-02-2008, 09:10 PM
Sarah Palin did well with point blank questions I'm sure she prepared answers for...Where she BOMBS is when she has to do follow up questions to explain her statements...She cannot do that and was not required to do that in the debate.

She really didn't say anything~


The entire Republican Pary needs to get over the condescending attitude they have....its horrible.

CKXXX
10-02-2008, 09:29 PM
She said nuculer...several times...didnt answer anything directly and winked at the camera. Yeah....a 72 yr old heartbeat away from leader of the free world she can never be dontchaknow there Joe Six Pack......

Yekhefah
10-02-2008, 09:53 PM
SHE SAID NUKEYULAR! OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!! :no:

If you have the launch codes, you should be able to pronounce the fucking word. Gah.

threlayer
10-03-2008, 07:25 AM
^^ Don't all Republicans pronounce it like that?

Yeah, she's homey all right. If that wins over the American people they deserve her, just as they were hoodwinked TWICE by Bush's smile and religion. What did we get there? I guess what we deserved.

sapphiregirl
10-03-2008, 12:28 PM
She was a trip...at then end of the day....cute smiles, a few "gosh darns", and winks/call outs to your family are not going to get you far when you are on the world stage.

Miss_Luscious
10-03-2008, 12:36 PM
Yeah...the winking and golly-gee-whiz stuff was...not good. She didn't make a complete fool out of herself as I expected (like in her interviews) but she certainly didn't look or sound vice-presidential. I'm glad they only have a small chance at winning now because she is just way out of her league. Obama and Biden are going to the Whitehouse!

Vyanka
10-03-2008, 12:44 PM
Ok, I don't care WHO you are, this woman is fucking scary... :no:

I like when she asked what newspapers did she read and the bitch said, "All of em."

WTF?!

LOL..


Palin didn't answer ONE QUESTION. For those who think she did a good job, have you ever seen beauty pageant interviews? She's trained to give a speech, but most of her answers were general and meaningless. Yes, she's very polished and folksy. So what? Can you imagine her leading the country? I just can't believe anyone would want that!

Yikes

Miss_Luscious
10-03-2008, 01:06 PM
^^Well she was a former beauty queen so I guess that's where her training comes from. I know it's been said before but she really does sound like Miss South Carolina (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww) sometimes.

Vyanka
10-03-2008, 01:10 PM
haaaa

TheSexKitten
10-03-2008, 07:23 PM
"Her reward is in heaven" - what a crock

sapphiregirl
10-03-2008, 08:31 PM
When I watched Joe Biden, I thought I was watching a man who was convinced he and Barack Obama could take this country in a better direction and actually cared...not arrogant, or cocky.

When I watched Sarah Palin, it was like watching a game show....is she going to get the question right or just skip back to energy in Alaska.....jeopardy theme playing...:eye-poppi

sapphiregirl
10-04-2008, 01:20 AM
Cool~ I honestly wish VP had to debate again because I don't think Sarah Palin will do press conferences etc,


Posted October 3, 2008 | 01:44 AM (EST)

Arianna Huffington


I watched the vice presidential debate in a ballroom at the Four Seasons hotel in Aviara, just north of San Diego, along with a couple of hundred women attending Fortune's Most Powerful Women Summit[/B] -- a receptive audience, you would think, for a debate featuring a woman who might become the most powerful in the land. It was an ideologically mixed crowd, including representatives of ExxonMobil, a major sponsor of the conference.
If the reaction of the Republican women in the room is any indication, it was not a very good night for Sarah Palin. The only noises heard during the debate were groans when Palin turned her folksiness meter up to 11 (which was often), and applause when Joe Biden delivered his best moments of the night: making personal his understanding of the plight of single parents sitting around their kitchen tables, looking for help; and his impassioned pushback on Palin's endless description of John McCain as "a maverick."
The loudest ovation of the night -- at least in that ballroom (granted, not the most representative-of-America crowd) -- came when Biden said that Dick Cheney was the most dangerous VP in history.
After watching this debate, I am convinced that if the country somehow has a collective mental meltdown and elects Sarah Palin, she will be even more dangerous than Cheney. Not only does she want more power for herself than the Constitution grants -- or than Cheney took for himself -- but she is so obviously not equipped to be a heartbeat away from the presidency, it takes your breath away that McCain picked her. He claims to be putting his country first, but the debate proved beyond any doubt that he has actually chosen to put his country on the betting line and roll the dice. And they've come up snake eyes.
Friday morning, Meg Whitman, the co-chair of McCain's campaign, will be on a panel with Penny Pritzker, Obama's national finance chair, discussing the campaign. After the debate, I asked Whitman what she thought of Palin's performance. "Good enough," she said.
But good enough for what, exactly? After Thursday night, the only thing Palin proved herself good enough for is starring in her own reality show.
Watching Biden and Palin on the same stage was like watching a tennis champion walk onto Centre Court at Wimbledon only to find himself facing an over-eager amateur from the local high school. Or as Pat Mitchell told me, "Biden was taking part in a vice presidential debate; Palin was taking part in a junior high debate."
Here's how Esther Dyson put it: "It's pretty clear that Biden spent decades getting ready for this debate, learning from experience; Palin spent a couple of weeks, learning from handlers and speech coaches."
The only subject on which Palin displayed superior knowledge was when she corrected Biden on the proper delivery of "Drill, baby, drill!" Christie Hefner thought Palin's sex-tinged twist on the chant should be appropriated for a commercial. Perhaps for Viagra.
Other than that, Palin's grasp fluctuated between wafer thin and skin deep. The moment that most drove me to want to send her a book on Greek gods and heroes was her head-scratching response to the question about her Achilles heel. She apparently didn't know what that meant since she spent her allotted time listing all of her attributes as opposed to her most glaring weakness.
Ann Wojcicki, co-founder of 23andme, told me: "I was dying to hear something -- anything! -- from Palin that wasn't pre-rehearsed."
Throughout the entire 90-minute debate, Palin came across as an over-wound windup doll, sporting a pasted-on-smile expression that never varied, except when she winked. Which she did repeatedly -- and pathetically. It was the folksiest appearance since Hee-Haw went off the air.
"The home-spun homilies have to go," Martha Stewart told me. "And, oh my god, words do have ending consonants."
In the greatest disconnect of the evening, Palin repeatedly went to the Reagan well, offering up such Gipper classics as "there you go again" and that "shining city on the hill." But, really, during a week in which John McCain hopped on board Bush's $700 billion bailout, did Palin not see how incongruous it was to insist that government isn't the solution, it's the problem? And declare that all we need to get this country back on track is for the government to get out of our way? Isn't that what got us where we are today? Or had she been so busy cramming for the debate she didn't have time to read one of the so-many-she-can't-name-one newspapers (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/sarah-palin-answers-what_n_130706.html?page=5) she reads?
Joe Biden's only insincere moment was when he told her: "Governor, it was a pleasure to meet you."
A better exit line would have been: "Governor, it's a pleasure to think that, God willing, in 33 days, you'll be back where you belong -- shootin' moose and takin' on those big oil companies in Alaska."
My patience with Palin is waving the white flag of surrender.

threlayer
10-04-2008, 09:55 AM
How about Palin vs Putin? Ever see that guy smile?

Or Palin vs Achmadenejad (sp, who cares)? Give 'em a wink, babe.

Or even Palin vs Petraeus? Can he hold back rolling of eyes?

Fred
10-04-2008, 10:11 AM
I remember Jimmy Carter pronounced it that way. I think he had some kind of job in nuclear engineering in the Navy too.


SHE SAID NUKEYULAR! OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!! :no:

If you have the launch codes, you should be able to pronounce the fucking word. Gah.

sapphiregirl
10-04-2008, 03:49 PM
The Human Rights Campaign is having thier annual National Dinner in Washington DC tonight. John McCain and Sarah Plain won't be there nor do they care.

Joe Biden said he would go, be a guest speaker and address this group of people on equality issues important to them.

Thank Goodness for true Presidential/VP Candidates and not sell outs to religion and right wing theocracy for votes.

Yep....I'm truly "pathetic" as Jester puts it for supporting Obama/Biden.


----------------

October is here, and it's shaping up to be quite an exciting month. One of the Human Rights Campaign's biggest nights is tomorrow, when we'll hold our twelfth annual National Dinner here in Washington, DC. We're so pleased that Senator Joe Biden, personal finance expert Suze Orman and Tony award-winning singer Jennifer Holliday will be gracing our stage this year.
Only two days after the Vice Presidential debate, Senator Biden will speak to our members about what's at stake in this critical election year. Senator Biden's record in the United States Senate is one of support and understanding, and his outspoken advocacy for the LGBT community is invaluable. If his career in the Senate is any indication of the type of Vice President he will be, then our community can be assured that Senator Barack Obama has chosen a thoughtful and staunch advocate for equality as his closest adviser.
This advocacy stands in contrast to his opponent, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. Governor Palin's record on issues of equality stands in stark contrast to Biden's, and, as evidenced by her comments this week regarding her belief that homosexuality is a choice, so does her general attitude toward this community.
But don't take my word for it. Senior Media Center Manager—and producer of my XM Radio show, The Agenda with Joe Solmonese—Michael Cole recently traveled to Palin's hometown of Wasilla, Alaska, to ask LGBT residents about their experiences with Palin as mayor and governor. Michael has created a powerful video about what he discovered while talking to these ordinary people with extraordinary insight. I urge you to watch the video on the HRC website, www.hrc.org (http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/ct/J7NpRH71WYuV/).
We are also honored to have Suze Orman at our dinner this year. Suze is someone whose commonsense financial advice has been heard by people across the nation and the globe. That so many Americans, both LGBT and straight, look to an open lesbian for this important advice shows that we all share the same concerns about paying our bills, feeding and clothing our children, and buying homes.
The night of the dinner, October 4th, is exactly one month from Election Day, and HRC is working overtime to guarantee that the first Tuesday in November brings the change that our community has worked so hard to achieve.
We've got to work together to ensure fair-minded leaders are elected this year. We simply can't afford four more years of an anti-LGBT stranglehold on the White House. But regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, you must guarantee that your voice is heard.
Voter registration deadlines are fast approaching in states across the country—some are as soon tomorrow and Monday. Please register to vote and do it now. You can register on the HRC website here (http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/ct/D1NpRH71WYj1/). This is our Year to Win, but we can't do it without you!
Have a great weekend!
Warmly,

http://img.getactivehub.com/gv2/custom_images/actioncenter/sig_solmonese.jpg
Joe Solmonese
President, Human Rights Campaign

Eric Stoner
10-22-2008, 10:30 AM
Who said the following ? :

1. "The United States drove Hezbollah out of Lebanon."

2. "I promise you, you are all gonna be sitting here a year from now going, ' Oh my God, why are they there in the polls ? Why is this thing so tough ? ', I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us. There are going to be a lot of you who want to go , 'Whoa , wait a minute, yo whoa,whoa, I don't know about that decision.' "

3. "If he tries to fool with my Beretta, he's got a problem."

4. "Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the Unites States, that's the executive.
He works in the executive branch. "

These and other even worse gaffes were brought to us by Joe Biden. I'll be praying nightly for Obama's good health.

Miss_Luscious
10-22-2008, 10:45 AM
Biden just says any old thing that comes to mind. He's a talk-before-thinking kind of guy but I don't doubt his intelligence like I do Palin. She really seems just as dumb as a box of rocks to me. Maybe that's not fair though. Maybe she's just dumb about things that a Vice Presidential candidate should know and not dumb in general. I still don't want her ass anywhere near The Button though.

Eric Stoner
10-22-2008, 12:03 PM
Biden just says any old thing that comes to mind. He's a talk-before-thinking kind of guy but I don't doubt his intelligence like I do Palin. She really seems just as dumb as a box of rocks to me. Maybe that's not fair though. Maybe she's just dumb about things that a Vice Presidential candidate should know and not dumb in general. I still don't want her ass anywhere near The Button though.

Where does your confidence in his intelligence come from ? He was wrong about the Cold War; wrong about the First Gulf War; wrong about invading Iraq. He finished near the bottom of his class at a mediocre law school.

Palin's not dumb; just lacks knowledge and experience. Biden has had 36 years in the Senate and sounds dumber every day.

Miss_Luscious
10-22-2008, 12:31 PM
I don't think he's a genius or anything, I just think he's smarter than her (which really isn't that hard - like being the smartest retard in the class or something). He has a better grasp on basic issues and actually understands what he's talking about even if he says some dumb shit. She just really seems dumb to me and doesn't seem to have a grasp of basic issues or a basic understanding of things that she should. Out of all four of the candidates, I think Barack is more intelligent than all three of them put together. I'm glad it'll be him in the Whitehouse at the top and not "talk-out-of-my-ass" Biden, "what-the-FUCK-are-aou-talking-about" Palin or "894th-of-899" McCain.

Richard_Head
10-23-2008, 12:09 AM
$150K in clothing for Palin? I guess that cements the fact that she wasn't brought on board for her brain.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gN2UuEbyF64GtuHQfJzWDqDg7PqgD93VS55G0

Eric Stoner
10-23-2008, 07:31 AM
$150K in clothing for Palin? I guess that cements the fact that she wasn't brought on board for her brain.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gN2UuEbyF64GtuHQfJzWDqDg7PqgD93VS55G0

$150,000 for that stuff ? Talk about a waste of money. Who took her shopping ?
Ann Coulter or Hillary's fashion advisor ?

DB Cooper
10-23-2008, 07:50 AM
Why should anyone trust Joe Biden? (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-why-should-anyone-trust-joe-biden-946127.html)


Joseph Robinette Biden – known to all as "Joe" – was once the most talked about American politician in Britain. Unfortunately for the senior Delaware Senator, all the talk was accompanied by incredulous laughter. As part of his Presidential campaign 20 years ago, he lifted verbatim and without attribution Neil Kinnock's celebrated remarks: "Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to a University ... was it because all our predecessors were thick, those people who could work eight hours underground and then come up to play football?"


Biden told an audience at an Iowa fairground: "I started thinking as I was coming over here, why is it that Joe Biden's the first in his family ever to go to University ... is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright... who worked in the coal mines of Northeast Pennsylvania and would come up after 12 hours and play football?"

Note the overt claim to spontaneity at the outset of the plagiarism; but it wasn't just that which left his run for the Presidency buried under an avalanche of ridicule. It rapidly emerged that Biden was not the first member of his family to go to university, and that the closest any ancestral Bidens came to working underground was a grandfather who was a mining engineer – and during the campaign Biden also told a number of gratuitous untruths about his own academic record.

So much for that whole having the respect of other nations mantra.