View Full Version : Dear Sarah Palin:
CKXXX
10-04-2008, 06:23 PM
Where does it say in the Constitution that anyone is entitled to healthcare?
Did I say anything about the Constitution OR entitlement???That would be a big NO. But I dont want to pay even MORE for my healthcare which is already more then I can afford because someone wants to add taxes to it.
And I do believe that everyone should have access to affordable healthcare...and I MUCH prefer Obamas plan to make that happen which DOESNT include taking even MORE money I cant afford from me.
I never get why Republicans are always screaming about how their party wont take their money...I have without exception seen money go significantly down when Republicans are in office and up when Democrats are in. War goes up with Repub's,countries that hate the US goes up, gas prices go up...but money in peoples wallets...no..that goes DOWN.
eagle2
10-04-2008, 07:12 PM
Obama is full of shit. He says he'll cut taxes for 95% of Americans. 40% already don't pay federal taxes so that's a mathematical impossibility, unless he's going to just give money to those people.
Practically all adults pays federal taxes of one form or another. Almost everyone pays FICA taxes, tariffs, or federal taxes on gasoline, alcohol, or cigarettes.
Those high-earning Americans who already pay high taxes are the ones who create jobs for the lower earners. At some point, these people will step back because the reward of expanding their companies will not be worth the risk they take by doing so.
The ones who create jobs are the middle class consumers. In order to have sellers, you need to have buyers.
sapphiregirl
10-04-2008, 08:33 PM
Practically all adults pays federal taxes of one form or another. Almost everyone pays FICA taxes, tariffs, or federal taxes on gasoline, alcohol, or cigarettes.
The ones who create jobs are the middle class consumers. In order to have sellers, you need to have buyers.
What eagle said...:party:
Melonie
10-05-2008, 03:12 AM
The ones who create jobs are the middle class consumers. In order to have sellers, you need to have buyers
Recent stock performance of Dollar General versus Penneys versus Tiffany would tend to indicate otherwise ! Same conclusion can be drawn from auto profits i.e. Hyundai versus Honda versus Porsche/Audi. The obvious conclusion is that middle class consumers are quickly becoming lowest price consumers, while the super-upscale luxury markets continue to do very well.
flickad
10-05-2008, 04:01 AM
I doubt socialized medicine was uppermost on the minds of our Founders back in the 1780's.
FBR
I doubt the agenda of the gun lobby was on their minds either.
Richard_Head
10-05-2008, 07:57 AM
Recent stock performance of Dollar General versus Penneys versus Tiffany would tend to indicate otherwise ! Same conclusion can be drawn from auto profits i.e. Hyundai versus Honda versus Porsche/Audi. The obvious conclusion is that middle class consumers are quickly becoming lowest price consumers, while the super-upscale luxury markets continue to do very well.That's the issue though. Middle class wages are stagnant, if not dropping (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/670/), they don't have as much money to spend, of course they are becoming lowest price consumers. The upper class hasn't been as hurt by the struggling economy, they can continue to buy their Porsche's. A thriving middle class is much more important than a thriving upper class.
eagle2
10-05-2008, 11:25 AM
Recent stock performance of Dollar General versus Penneys versus Tiffany would tend to indicate otherwise ! Same conclusion can be drawn from auto profits i.e. Hyundai versus Honda versus Porsche/Audi. The obvious conclusion is that middle class consumers are quickly becoming lowest price consumers, while the super-upscale luxury markets continue to do very well.
Stock prices don't reflect how many jobs are created by a firm. Porche's car sales are in the tens of thousands, GM and Toyota's sales are in the millions. Who do you think provides more jobs?
As for car sales, Porsche's volume is down significantly this year
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26976485
while Honda's has increased.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/business/26honda.html
threlayer
10-05-2008, 02:51 PM
Recent stock performance of Dollar General versus Penneys versus Tiffany would tend to indicate otherwise ! Same conclusion can be drawn from auto profits i.e. Hyundai versus Honda versus Porsche/Audi. The obvious conclusion is that middle class consumers are quickly becoming lowest price consumers, while the super-upscale luxury markets continue to do very well.
Countering that to an extent is the realization that Dollar General has upped their prices considerably in the last 6 months. Also almost all their non-food goods are from China. So we cheapskates may be saving ourselves, but we are contributing to selling out our country. On the other hand we did that with autos in the last few decades and automakers countered with much improved quality, though their products are not targeted very well. Big business always seems to struggle to keep up.
sapphiregirl
10-05-2008, 03:09 PM
I just saw on the news Sarah Palin was in Southern California today...no wonder I have been itching. I'm allergic..:boxedin:
She really needs to grow up and start talking about ISSUES instead of thinking she is badass and cocky with a smear campaign....it will blow up in her face...but that's ok by me.
jester214
10-05-2008, 06:51 PM
Practically all adults pays federal taxes of one form or another. Almost everyone pays FICA taxes, tariffs, or federal taxes on gasoline, alcohol, or cigarettes.
The ones who create jobs are the middle class consumers. In order to have sellers, you need to have buyers.
A nice piece of spin, but if you really think Obama's going to cut taxes for 95% of Americans then you're mistaken. If he thought along the lines you were talking about, then he could go ahead and say 100%. Taxes will rise for a helluva a lot of people if Obama actually tries to imput the things he suggests.
But he won't, so it's really irrelevant.
jester214
10-05-2008, 06:54 PM
I just saw on the news Sarah Palin was in Southern California today...no wonder I have been itching. I'm allergic..:boxedin:
She really needs to grow up and start talking about ISSUES instead of thinking she is badass and cocky with a smear campaign....it will blow up in her face...but that's ok by me.
You say you "allergic" to her and then you make a comment about smearing??
It's a good things nobody's smeared her... Cept for the media, bloggers, you, the average Obama fan, and the Obama campaign when they could get away with it.::)
dlabtot
10-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Hustler Video is shooting a porn with a look-alike, titled "Nailin' Paylin." The spelling is sic and so is Hustler.
The faux Sarah is Lisa Ann, who "will be nailing the Russians who come knocking on her back-door." In another scene -- a flashback -- "young Paylin's creationist college professor will explain a 'big bang' theory even she can't deny!"
There's also a threeway with Hillary and Condoleezza look-alikes. The video is in pre-production, but is being fast tracked for release before the election.
http://www.tmz.com/2008/10/03/nailin-palin/
Here's one title I'll skip.
UtahMike
10-05-2008, 09:01 PM
I just realized--if we don't continue Bush's tax cuts, that will spell the END of the upper class. They will be overcrowding the homeless shelters and getting food money by holding signs near freeway exits and WalMart parking lots. This will crowd many of the lower class out of their jobs and homes.
We must vote wisely, or there will be no more upper class! Don't let this happen in America!
arctic717
10-05-2008, 09:49 PM
Posted by Eric Stoner:
Revive the economy ? Not if he raises taxes in a recession he won't. Ask Hoover and FDR how well that worked in the 1930's.
Why go all the way back to the 30's, why don't we ask Bill Clinton how well it worked in the 90's.
Most of the arguments and fears conservatives are now whining about with Obama and taxes and gov't buearacracy are the same things they've said about Clinton before he got in. Put just a little thought into it, we have the economies of 3 past republicans Presidents and 1 democratic one. Why not just look at the numbers and see who's policies worked better. My vote is for slightly higher taxes and along with it responsible government regulation, proper investment into infrastructure etc. These are the things that allow the economy to grow long term.
Cutting taxes as a sole economic policy which seems to me all the republicans are offering, is narrow-minded, short-term thinking and not only ineffective but dangerous and has proven not to work in every republican presidency I can remember.
flickad
10-06-2008, 02:09 AM
^
Actually, Australia's federal government raised taxes in the middle of the 1990s recession, so as to pull the country out of debt. We now have a budget surplus and have not been hit nearly as hard by recent events as much of the rest of the world, including our neighbour, New Zealand. Keeping taxation levels low can be horribly short-sighted.
Miss_Luscious
10-06-2008, 03:29 AM
I just realized--if we don't continue Bush's tax cuts, that will spell the END of the upper class. They will be overcrowding the homeless shelters and getting food money by holding signs near freeway exits and WalMart parking lots. This will crowd many of the lower class out of their jobs and homes.
We must vote wisely, or there will be no more upper class! Don't let this happen in America!
I LOL'd :D
Eric Stoner
10-06-2008, 11:00 AM
Why go all the way back to the 30's, why don't we ask Bill Clinton how well it worked in the 90's.
Most of the arguments and fears conservatives are now whining about with Obama and taxes and gov't buearacracy are the same things they've said about Clinton before he got in. Put just a little thought into it, we have the economies of 3 past republicans Presidents and 1 democratic one. Why not just look at the numbers and see who's policies worked better. My vote is for slightly higher taxes and along with it responsible government regulation, proper investment into infrastructure etc. These are the things that allow the economy to grow long term.
Cutting taxes as a sole economic policy which seems to me all the republicans are offering, is narrow-minded, short-term thinking and not only ineffective but dangerous and has proven not to work in every republican presidency I can remember.
When Clinton raised taxes we were coming out of a short and shallow recession.
That's right. The 4th Quarter of 1992 had positive economic growth so his tax increases while blatantly dishonest ( he'd promised a middle class tax cut but RAISED them instead ) were not as injurious as they would have been had the economy still been in decline. And if you actually look at the numbers, unemployment did not bottom out until well after Clinton's Capital Gains TAX CUTS.
Eric Stoner
10-06-2008, 11:19 AM
Oooo! Ooooo! Ooooo! Can I answer this one?
1. Heal global perceptions of America
2. Fix the public educational system
3. Bridge the race divide
4. He won't raise my taxes, but he might raise yours, Eric. I didn't know you were rich
5. Enact real immigration reform
6. Enforce anti-trust laws
7. He's already gotten the voters involved in government. He promises more of the same as Prez.
8. Demanding that Iraq pays for its own rebuilding efforts from the Billions of dollars that they are sitting on.
9. End the corporate lobbying culture in Washington (McCain promised this too)
10. Work towards making us energy independent through renewable resources like solar and wind and geothermal.
I've got more, if you like;D
Of course, these are campaign promises. GW Bush promised smaller government and no nation building. I guess we can see how well that worked out.
The question was what Obama is going to do for you, personally. Not the country in general.
I agree with you on Number 1. While I don't care about the U.S. being liked; I do appreciate us being respected and Obama certainly couldn't do worse than Bush.
As for public education, unless he comes out for vouchers, school choice, merit pay
and more charter schools like KIP, forget it. For right now Obama & Biden are in the pockets of the NEA.
Agreed on Number 3.
As for taxes. It depends on how you define "rich". Under Obama's proposal; my INCOME taxes will NOT go up. My PAYROLL taxes will. And I hope he keeps his word but if I had to bet; I think he'll pull a "Clinton" and renege by raising EVERYONE'S taxes. More importantly, this is the worst possible time to be raising anyone's taxes. Hoover raised taxes which along with Smoot-Hawley and interest rate INCREASES by the Fed turned a serious recession into a DEPRESSION.
Immigration Reform ? I'll believe it when I see it.
Anti-Trust ? What laws are not being enforced ?
Voter involvement in government ? We have a Republic; not a direct democracy.
Get Iraq to pay up ? Great idea. Maybe he can tell Kerry and Schumer NOT to send any more stupid letters to the State Dept. interfering in deals that would have given American oil companies contracts to rebuild Iraq's oil producing infrastructure. Iraq said "F U " ; canceled the contracts and hired the Chinese.
The best way to emasculate lobbyists is to have a flat tax and end government subsidies. If Obama does anything resembling that I'd be astonished.
The private market is already working on lots of energy alternatives and does a MUCH better job of picking winners and losers than the government. Checked out the results of our ethanol policy lately ?
You're right about Bush. I'm right about Clinton . Kinda proves that campaign promises aren't worth very much; doesn't it ?
Eric Stoner
10-06-2008, 11:20 AM
^
Actually, Australia's federal government raised taxes in the middle of the 1990s recession, so as to pull the country out of debt. We now have a budget surplus and have not been hit nearly as hard by recent events as much of the rest of the world, including our neighbour, New Zealand. Keeping taxation levels low can be horribly short-sighted.
What were Australia's rate of economic growth and unemployment AFTER the tax increases ? What are they now ?
sapphiregirl
10-06-2008, 11:50 AM
This is Funny.......:king:
To the Citizens of the United States of America:
In light of the strong possibility you are about to elect
an elderly gentleman with a bad temper and a lady who thinks
she understands foreign policy because she can see Russia
from her house, as President and President-In-Waiting of the
USA and thus to risk Life-As-We-Know-It for everyone else on
the Planet, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
independence, effective immediately.
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume
monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and
territories (except Utah, which she does not fancy). She
won't actually be in charge, but she'll greet
foreign leaders as necessary and not put her foot in it or
vomit on anyone at dinner. Your new prime minister, Gordon
Brown, will appoint a Governor for America without the need
for further elections. He will choose someone who does not
have his or her hand in the till and has significant
experience in running Big Things. You have not had one of
them for almost a decade and trust me, it is a big plus.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. They have given
away too much of your money already to rescue incompetent
business executives and soon your American Dollars will
resemble Zimbabwean Dollars in total worthlessness. There
is no free lunch you know. Although we originally let you
get away with secession because King George was robbing you
blind, recent events demonstrate that your present leaders
are doing much worse things.
A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine
whether more than half of you still believe Saddam Hussein
was behind 9-11. Information to the contrary will again be
provided by the rest of the world and we request you read it
this time and refrain from invading the wrong country ever
again.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the
following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford
English Dictionary.
1. Then look up aluminum, and check the pronunciation
guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been
pronouncing it.
2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such
as 'favour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you
will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half
the letters, and the suffix -ize will be replaced by the
suffix -ise. Generally, you will be expected to raise your
vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with
filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an
unacceptable and inefficient form of
communication.
There is no such thing as US English. We will let Microsoft
know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be
adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter
'u' and the elimination of -ize. You will relearn
your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.
4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday. But
we have a lot of Monday Bank Holidays you will enjoy
instead.
5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using
guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many
lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult
enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by
adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out
without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then
you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry
anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit
will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in
public .
7. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and
this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you
will understand what we mean.
8. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and
you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At
the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and
without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts
and metrication will help you understand the British sense
of humour.
9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you
have been calling gasoline)-roughly $9/US gallon. Get used
to it. Your driving armoured cars to buy groceries is
unnecessary, boorish and killing the planet.
10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you
call French fries are not real chips, and those things you
insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps.
Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed
not with catsup but with vinegar.
11. We will require that people running things, like your
government, are at least moderately competent and not
related by blood or bribes to those who benefit from their
decisions. We know it makes you more cozy when your leaders
know as little as you do, but, honestly, it is short
sighted: you need doctors who know more about medicine,
pilots who know more about flying and leaders who know more
about leading.
12. We respectfully request you give up this notion that
Politics is Entertainment, and that very complicated things
can only be explained to you in less than fifteen seconds.
If you wanted to have a democracy, honestly, you'd
really need to have taken the time to understand things a
bit more before you voted. And may I suggest the startling
notion that politicians don't need to look good to do a
good job? And it really is acceptable if they are a bit
boring, so long as they do their homework. It's
especially important if evidently you have not done yours.
Poor old Al Gore. Poor old John Kerry. And by the way, are
you happy now you chose a Governor for California based on
his teeth?
11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is
not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British
Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of
known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager.
South African beer is also acceptable as they are pound for
pound the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it can only
be due to the beer. They are also part of the British
Commonwealth - see what it did for them.
12. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English
actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast
English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie
McDowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a
Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears
removed with a cheese grater.
13. You will cease playing American football. There is only
one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of
you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby
(which has some similarities to American football, but does
not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or
wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
Don't try Rugby - the South Africans and Kiwis will
thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.
14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not
reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a
game which is hardly played outside of America. Since only
2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your
borders, your error is understandable. You will learn
cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first
in their country. The six out of ten of you who don't
own a passport will need to get one first.
15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving
us mad.
16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her
Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure
the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
Although this will raise your taxes, remember that the
Neoconservatives will no longer be robbing you blind and so
your Dollars will stop shrinking. Didn't you know that
inflation and government bailouts of huge companies were
really paid for by you? We must do something about your
educational system. What on earth is going on over there?
Are you oblivious to the crushing debt you are leaving your
children? You might as well throttle them now.
17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper
cups, never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and
cakes; strawberries in season.
God Save the Queen. (But at least God won't instruct
your President to invade any more wrong countries.
jester214
10-06-2008, 01:06 PM
The question was what Obama is going to do for you, personally. Not the country in general.
I agree with you on Number 1. While I don't care about the U.S. being liked; I do appreciate us being respected and Obama certainly couldn't do worse than Bush.
As for public education, unless he comes out for vouchers, school choice, merit pay
and more charter schools like KIP, forget it. For right now Obama & Biden are in the pockets of the NEA.
Agreed on Number 3.
As for taxes. It depends on how you define "rich". Under Obama's proposal; my INCOME taxes will NOT go up. My PAYROLL taxes will. And I hope he keeps his word but if I had to bet; I think he'll pull a "Clinton" and renege by raising EVERYONE'S taxes. More importantly, this is the worst possible time to be raising anyone's taxes. Hoover raised taxes which along with Smoot-Hawley and interest rate INCREASES by the Fed turned a serious recession into a DEPRESSION.
Immigration Reform ? I'll believe it when I see it.
Anti-Trust ? What laws are not being enforced ?
Voter involvement in government ? We have a Republic; not a direct democracy.
Get Iraq to pay up ? Great idea. Maybe he can tell Kerry and Schumer NOT to send any more stupid letters to the State Dept. interfering in deals that would have given American oil companies contracts to rebuild Iraq's oil producing infrastructure. Iraq said "F U " ; canceled the contracts and hired the Chinese.
The best way to emasculate lobbyists is to have a flat tax and end government subsidies. If Obama does anything resembling that I'd be astonished.
The private market is already working on lots of energy alternatives and does a MUCH better job of picking winners and losers than the government. Checked out the results of our ethanol policy lately ?
You're right about Bush. I'm right about Clinton . Kinda proves that campaign promises aren't worth very much; doesn't it ?
Shockingly well stated. Although i would add that the whole 'energy' issue is irrelevant. We need to drill AND look for alternate sources, both of those are going to happen regardless of who is in office.
I also agree that there is no way Obama will be able to just raise taxes on the wealthy and do everything he's promise.
I also beleive that McCain has a better chance of getting rid of lobbyist's and pork spending. Obama has done both, hell look at how much he got from F&F.
sapphiregirl
10-06-2008, 02:18 PM
Shockingly well stated. Although i would add that the whole 'energy' issue is irrelevant. We need to drill AND look for alternate sources, both of those are going to happen regardless of who is in office.
I also agree that there is no way Obama will be able to just raise taxes on the wealthy and do everything he's promise.
I also beleive that McCain has a better chance of getting rid of lobbyist's and pork spending. Obama has done both, hell look at how much he got from F&F.
Mccain getting rid of lobbyists? LMAO!!!!!!!!!! His entire campaign is being run by top lobbyists in Washington. Do some research on Mccain and gambling lobbyists etc...Do some research on Sarah Palin...girl loves the pork too!
Over 500,000 gallons of oil spilled into the Gulf Of Mexico from Hurricane Ike alone....DRILL BABY DRILL!
Do people here read the news besides what Fox spews???
retiredangel
10-06-2008, 04:30 PM
Dear Sarah...can I call you Sarah?
The global economy is in crisis, Wall Street is screwed, people are losing their hard-earned investments and their jobs, we are involved in an on-going no end in sight/ridiculously expensive "war" and your main focus according to the news today is to GO ON SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE SO YOU CAN PUT TINA FEY IN HER PLACE???
I am simply in awe...can't begin to wrap my mind around how you think (or don't...)
Thank GOD for Tina! LOL!
jester214
10-06-2008, 06:24 PM
Mccain getting rid of lobbyists? LMAO!!!!!!!!!! His entire campaign is being run by top lobbyists in Washington. Do some research on Mccain and gambling lobbyists etc...Do some research on Sarah Palin...girl loves the pork too!
Over 500,000 gallons of oil spilled into the Gulf Of Mexico from Hurricane Ike alone....DRILL BABY DRILL!
Do people here read the news besides what Fox spews???
Oh yeah, Obama hated lobbyists, as soon as he saw he had a serious bid for President.::) McCain's been fighting pork spending for years, I beleive Arizona got none last year. Biden took plenty, and Obama only stopped (once again) when he realized he had a serious chance.
Obama took more from F&F than anyone else, after Chris Dodd, hmm yeah sure he was really trying to keep them in check.
If I was a lobbyist or a pork eater, I'd take Obama any day over McCain.
VegasPrincess
10-06-2008, 06:52 PM
I think it's funny that the republicans get upset because democrats want a government funded health care, and are accusing us of wanting the government to meet our needs because we want healthcare. Pretty sure that taxes to to all KINDS of things for the public good, I don't see why healthcare should be different.
Some examples:
Public Schools, from preschool to University level
Public roads.....
Public Parks....
Why are these acceptable, but public healthcare is not ? It really makes no sense to me..
jester214
10-06-2008, 07:11 PM
I think it's funny that the republicans get upset because democrats want a government funded health care, and are accusing us of wanting the government to meet our needs because we want healthcare. Pretty sure that taxes to to all KINDS of things for the public good, I don't see why healthcare should be different.
Some examples:
Public Schools, from preschool to University level
Public roads.....
Public Parks....
Why are these acceptable, but public healthcare is not ? It really makes no sense to me..
because me, and a lot of other's are getting along fine without gov. health care. I can't get my own school, or my own road, and really can't get my own park. Those are things that very very few single individuals can get on there own, so someone must provide them.
Most people have healthcare. A lot of people that don't have healthcare, can afford it, but choose not to spend the money on it. The number of those who actually need healthcare and can't afford it, is a lot smaller than the number that gets thrown around.
The gov. can't handle medicare and medicaid, who knows what'd they would do if they had to hand it for twice (three, four, five times) as many people.
I've heard some real horror stories about what socialized medicine is like in other countries, waiting months and months for MRI's, and the like.
How many employers would drop their insurance programs (which are usually pretty good) if they knew the gov. would pay for it?
Plus the costs!! So much money it will take, I'd rather see some reform in the medical insurance industry.
How many employers would drop their insurance programs (which are usually pretty good) if they knew the gov. would pay for it?
Plus the costs!! So much money it will take, I'd rather see some reform in the medical insurance industry.
Well to be honest, if I could drop providing heath care insurance without screwing myself (preexisting conditions in my family) I would. It is my single largest expense after payroll. So the rhetoric sounds good on the surface but I suspect the government taxes would be even higher than what I am currently paying in premiums for my employees.
FBR
flickad
10-06-2008, 07:25 PM
This is Funny.......:king:
To the Citizens of the United States of America:
In light of the strong possibility you are about to elect
an elderly gentleman with a bad temper and a lady who thinks
she understands foreign policy because she can see Russia
from her house, as President and President-In-Waiting of the
USA and thus to risk Life-As-We-Know-It for everyone else on
the Planet, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
independence, effective immediately.
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume
monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and
territories (except Utah, which she does not fancy). She
won't actually be in charge, but she'll greet
foreign leaders as necessary and not put her foot in it or
vomit on anyone at dinner. Your new prime minister, Gordon
Brown, will appoint a Governor for America without the need
for further elections. He will choose someone who does not
have his or her hand in the till and has significant
experience in running Big Things. You have not had one of
them for almost a decade and trust me, it is a big plus.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. They have given
away too much of your money already to rescue incompetent
business executives and soon your American Dollars will
resemble Zimbabwean Dollars in total worthlessness. There
is no free lunch you know. Although we originally let you
get away with secession because King George was robbing you
blind, recent events demonstrate that your present leaders
are doing much worse things.
A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine
whether more than half of you still believe Saddam Hussein
was behind 9-11. Information to the contrary will again be
provided by the rest of the world and we request you read it
this time and refrain from invading the wrong country ever
again.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the
following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford
English Dictionary.
1. Then look up aluminum, and check the pronunciation
guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been
pronouncing it.
2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such
as 'favour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you
will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half
the letters, and the suffix -ize will be replaced by the
suffix -ise. Generally, you will be expected to raise your
vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with
filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an
unacceptable and inefficient form of
communication.
There is no such thing as US English. We will let Microsoft
know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be
adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter
'u' and the elimination of -ize. You will relearn
your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.
4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday. But
we have a lot of Monday Bank Holidays you will enjoy
instead.
5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using
guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many
lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult
enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by
adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out
without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then
you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry
anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit
will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in
public .
7. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and
this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you
will understand what we mean.
8. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and
you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At
the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and
without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts
and metrication will help you understand the British sense
of humour.
9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you
have been calling gasoline)-roughly $9/US gallon. Get used
to it. Your driving armoured cars to buy groceries is
unnecessary, boorish and killing the planet.
10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you
call French fries are not real chips, and those things you
insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps.
Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed
not with catsup but with vinegar.
11. We will require that people running things, like your
government, are at least moderately competent and not
related by blood or bribes to those who benefit from their
decisions. We know it makes you more cozy when your leaders
know as little as you do, but, honestly, it is short
sighted: you need doctors who know more about medicine,
pilots who know more about flying and leaders who know more
about leading.
12. We respectfully request you give up this notion that
Politics is Entertainment, and that very complicated things
can only be explained to you in less than fifteen seconds.
If you wanted to have a democracy, honestly, you'd
really need to have taken the time to understand things a
bit more before you voted. And may I suggest the startling
notion that politicians don't need to look good to do a
good job? And it really is acceptable if they are a bit
boring, so long as they do their homework. It's
especially important if evidently you have not done yours.
Poor old Al Gore. Poor old John Kerry. And by the way, are
you happy now you chose a Governor for California based on
his teeth?
11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is
not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British
Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of
known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager.
South African beer is also acceptable as they are pound for
pound the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it can only
be due to the beer. They are also part of the British
Commonwealth - see what it did for them.
12. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English
actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast
English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie
McDowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a
Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears
removed with a cheese grater.
13. You will cease playing American football. There is only
one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of
you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby
(which has some similarities to American football, but does
not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or
wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
Don't try Rugby - the South Africans and Kiwis will
thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.
14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not
reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a
game which is hardly played outside of America. Since only
2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your
borders, your error is understandable. You will learn
cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first
in their country. The six out of ten of you who don't
own a passport will need to get one first.
15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving
us mad.
16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her
Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure
the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
Although this will raise your taxes, remember that the
Neoconservatives will no longer be robbing you blind and so
your Dollars will stop shrinking. Didn't you know that
inflation and government bailouts of huge companies were
really paid for by you? We must do something about your
educational system. What on earth is going on over there?
Are you oblivious to the crushing debt you are leaving your
children? You might as well throttle them now.
17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper
cups, never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and
cakes; strawberries in season.
God Save the Queen. (But at least God won't instruct
your President to invade any more wrong countries.
That's been around since the re-election of Bush in 2004.
flickad
10-06-2008, 07:28 PM
What were Australia's rate of economic growth and unemployment AFTER the tax increases ? What are they now ?
I don't know where I'd find that information and, to be honest, I'm unsure it would be helpful in any event, given the existence of other variables over a 15 year period. While I don't know the exact figures, I do know that we experienced a period of strong economic growth over the last 10 years or so, with the economy recently slowing down in response to world events, though not so badly as yours.
UtahMike
10-06-2008, 08:54 PM
Jester, of COURSE you can get your own school. It's called homeschool or private school. Just don't ask for a voucher for your homeschool or private school. If you did not notice, Utah, the most conservative state in the Union, rejected vouchers by a 2 to 1 margin last year.
The Federal government has made public education into a nation of multiple choice test takers with No Child Left Behind. McCain, talking to some parents in an impoverished school district, said, "Don't worry, we're going to get you a choice." Vouchers, in other words. Why is he not saying, "Don't worry, we are going to provide your schools with the resources they need to be every bit as good as the schools that are in the neighborhoods with money?"
He is not saying that, because that would COST money, and then he would have to RAISE taxes. And he knows, in his secret heart of hearts, that Federal vouchers are not going to make it through Congress, nor are they going to come out of state legislatures who are even now slashing their budgets.
One of the big problems of NCLB was the Feds giving the states unfunded mandates: We require you to do ALL THESE THINGS to get your Federal funds, but we are going to give you NO MORE Federal funds than we gave you before NCLB. Pay for the tests and the improvements yourselves. Education is a LOCAL issue. The Federal government has NO BUSINESS telling the states what to do. The states go along with it because they want the Federal funds.
So, sure, you can have your own school. Just don't ask me to pay for it. (How did a socialistic idea like school vouchers ever become a rallying point for conservatives? But conservatives are not once what they once were.)
jester214
10-06-2008, 09:29 PM
Jester, of COURSE you can get your own school. It's called homeschool or private school. Just don't ask for a voucher for your homeschool or private school. If you did not notice, Utah, the most conservative state in the Union, rejected vouchers by a 2 to 1 margin last year.
The Federal government has made public education into a nation of multiple choice test takers with No Child Left Behind. McCain, talking to some parents in an impoverished school district, said, "Don't worry, we're going to get you a choice." Vouchers, in other words. Why is he not saying, "Don't worry, we are going to provide your schools with the resources they need to be every bit as good as the schools that are in the neighborhoods with money?"
He is not saying that, because that would COST money, and then he would have to RAISE taxes. And he knows, in his secret heart of hearts, that Federal vouchers are not going to make it through Congress, nor are they going to come out of state legislatures who are even now slashing their budgets.
One of the big problems of NCLB was the Feds giving the states unfunded mandates: We require you to do ALL THESE THINGS to get your Federal funds, but we are going to give you NO MORE Federal funds than we gave you before NCLB. Pay for the tests and the improvements yourselves. Education is a LOCAL issue. The Federal government has NO BUSINESS telling the states what to do. The states go along with it because they want the Federal funds.
So, sure, you can have your own school. Just don't ask me to pay for it. (How did a socialistic idea like school vouchers ever become a rallying point for conservatives? But conservatives are not once what they once were.)
You chose one of my points to target, but ok, let's play with that one.
I couldn't be homeschooled, both my parents worked, and to argue that one of them stay home or hire someone... That's not realistic to the average person... I can go buy a huge chunk of land and make it my own personal park, I would also have to sell a bunch of my assets, the average person can't do that either.
Now homeschool is a better argument than private, because private still requires a colaboration of people. Not to mention they often get funding from sources other than tuition. Most people can't afford private school, or even parochial school which is often cheaper. So that argument doesn't hold water.
You can talk about vouchers all you want, but it doesn't pertain to the argument. I hated No Child, thought it was a crappy idea. Although I think State funding is usually more of an issue with education than federal.
Again, Schooling something that has to be provided by someone other than the average person, which usually means the government, otherwise a lot less people would have any education.
Healthcare is not the same.
Richard_Head
10-06-2008, 10:22 PM
Maybe flickad can tell us about the universal health care in Australia??? Do you wait months and months for health care in Australia as suggested by jester?
jester214
10-06-2008, 10:37 PM
Maybe flickad can tell us about the universal health care in Australia??? Do you wait months and months for health care in Australia as suggested by jester?
I don't know about all universal healthcare, but I've heard some horror stories. Especially for people who become extremely ill, versus the "day to day" stuff.
Richard_Head
10-06-2008, 10:57 PM
I don't know about all universal healthcare, but I've heard some horror stories. Especially for people who become extremely ill, versus the "day to day" stuff.Could those horror stories come from healthcare lobbyist by any chance?
jester214
10-06-2008, 11:01 PM
Could those horror stories come from healthcare lobbyist by any chance?
Oh god how'd you know???::) Don't be an ass, of course not. They came directly from the mouths of people I know in countries with some kind of socialized medicine.
flickad
10-07-2008, 12:14 AM
Maybe flickad can tell us about the universal health care in Australia??? Do you wait months and months for health care in Australia as suggested by jester?
Nope, we don't, though I've heard there can be a wait in Britain. However, in general British bureaucracy tends to be disorganised.
Paris
10-07-2008, 10:46 AM
I don't know about all universal healthcare, but I've heard some horror stories. Especially for people who become extremely ill, versus the "day to day" stuff.
As if that doesn't happen to those in the USA with employer provided health insurance? There is no perfection. Most would agree that our current health care system is not merely flawed, but completely broken.
CKXXX
10-07-2008, 12:35 PM
As if that doesn't happen to those in the USA with employer provided health insurance? There is no perfection. Most would agree that our current health care system is not merely flawed, but completely broken.
Seriously...as someone with several chronic health problems I can vouch for the fact that not only do I often have to wait forever to get treatment...I often CANT get treatment because my ins(which I pay an arm and a leg for) wont approve it(ex: when I hit my head causing permanent nerve damage they wouldnt approve a CAT scan or MRI...because head injuries apparently arent important)
Not to mention that I often cant afford treatment because either they dont cover it,only cover a little or the co-pays are insane.
bem401
10-07-2008, 01:32 PM
As if that doesn't happen to those in the USA with employer provided health insurance? There is no perfection. Most would agree that our current health care system is not merely flawed, but completely broken.
Yet it is the best health care system in the world, the place people from other countries come to be treated when they can afford it.
Paris
10-07-2008, 01:50 PM
Yet it is the best health care system in the world, the place people from other countries come to be treated when they can afford it.
That's incorrect. It is the 29th best health care system in the world. France has the best health care system in the world.
TheSexKitten
10-07-2008, 01:55 PM
Australia's system isn't completely socialized. It's semi-privatized, with everyone receiving a flat 1.5% income tax to pay for the basic comprehensive care. There is an option to pay for your own, semi-private care and the government offers tax breaks (?) as an incentive.
It's actually a super legit system, better than the ones in Japan, Canada, etc
jester214
10-07-2008, 03:13 PM
That's incorrect. It is the 29th best health care system in the world. France has the best health care system in the world.
According to who/what?
jester214
10-07-2008, 03:14 PM
As if that doesn't happen to those in the USA with employer provided health insurance? There is no perfection. Most would agree that our current health care system is not merely flawed, but completely broken.
I would argue that A. People think most thinks are flawed if it costs money and doesn't go exactly the way they want. and B. So turning it over to the hands of the Gov. will make it better? That's laughable.
Again, we need reform in the big insurance companies.
jester214
10-07-2008, 03:15 PM
Australia's system isn't completely socialized. It's semi-privatized, with everyone receiving a flat 1.5% income tax to pay for the basic comprehensive care. There is an option to pay for your own, semi-private care and the government offers tax breaks (?) as an incentive.
It's actually a super legit system, better than the ones in Japan, Canada, etc
Australia does have a good system, I would take it over Brit or Canadian any day.
Paris
10-07-2008, 03:15 PM
According to who/what?
That would be WHO not what. Rankings here (http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html)
Oh, my bad. I guess we've slipped a bit in the past couple of years. We'er number 37!
jester214
10-07-2008, 03:18 PM
That would be WHO not what. Rankings here (http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html)
Oh, my bad. We'er number 37! Woo-hoo!
That's why I wrote WHO/WHAT. That mean's WHO and or WHAT. No reason to TRY and be a smart ass.
jester214
10-07-2008, 03:20 PM
That would be WHO not what. Rankings here (http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html)
Oh, my bad. I guess we've slipped a bit in the past couple of years. We'er number 37!
Interesting list, but I would disagree with the validity, considering they put Canada ahead of us... Canada can't even keep it's doctors in the country, they come over here and practice.
VegasPrincess
10-07-2008, 03:33 PM
because me, and a lot of other's are getting along fine without gov. health care. I can't get my own school, or my own road, and really can't get my own park.
That's exactly my point... plenty of people have their own schools. I never went to public school, I went to private school. My parents "didnt make the government" pay for my school, nor did any of my peers who went to private school. You COULD choose to go to a private school, but instead you took advantage of the school funded by the GOVERNMENT and specifically by TAXES.
So, what's the difference with healthcare?
It's also a moot point that businesses would drop health care. Government health care would be bare bones....just for emergency and neccessary care.....
jester214
10-07-2008, 03:44 PM
That's exactly my point... plenty of people have their own schools. I never went to public school, I went to private school. My parents "didnt make the government" pay for my school, nor did any of my peers who went to private school. You COULD choose to go to a private school, but instead you took advantage of the school funded by the GOVERNMENT and specifically by TAXES.
So, what's the difference with healthcare?
It's also a moot point that businesses would drop health care. Government health care would be bare bones....just for emergency and neccessary care.....
Individuals don't have their own schools, unless you count homeschool's which are again very rare. Just like we already have some Gov. funded heathcare.
Private schools are a consortium, if your peers hadn't been there, neither would you. Besides most people can't afford private school, or to go the homeschool route.
Most people can afford healthcare, through their work, or themselves.
Healthcare and education are not comparable. If you took away public schools then the majority of people would have no education.
The majority of people do have healthcare.
Miss_Luscious
10-07-2008, 03:53 PM
Interesting list, but I would disagree with the validity, considering they put Canada ahead of us... Canada can't even keep it's doctors in the country, they come over here and practice.
Sorry, you can't just dismiss evidence because it doesn't jive with your preconceived notions. Those facts have no reason to lie to you.