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View Full Version : for anybody waiting for an 'October Surprise' ... this is it !



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Melonie
11-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Melonie stop copy/pasting form FW:FW:FW emails. What you posted isn't correct.

as I clearly stated, this commentary was from a website involving a different lawsuit ... with the gist of that separate lawsuit being that nobody has yet proven that Barack Obama was in fact born in Hawaii ( since Hawaiian law permits the registration and the obtainment of a Certificate of Live Birth by Hawaiian mothers even if the child was not born in Hawaii). This separate lawsuit then goes on to point out that the Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth released by Obama's website does not include extremely important details that ARE included on an original Hawaiian Birth Certificate (namely the name of the Hawaiian hospital where the child was born and of the Hawaiian doctor who delivered the child). This separate lawsuit mentions the supposed existence of corroborating evidence that Barack was in fact born in Kenya due to his extremely pregnant mother being denied air travel from Kenya back to Hawaii for health/safety reasons ... and points out the very possible fact that under Hawaiian law Barack's mother may indeed have applied for a Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth immediately on their return from Kenya (but with the place of birth being a hospital in Nairobi).

If this separate lawsuit receives further scrutiny (and there are at least two additional Obama 'natural born citizen' appeals headed for the US Supreme Court in addition to the Donofrio case), then the immigration laws concerning foreign born children of one American parent suddenly become extremely relevant. At any rate my response was to glambman's questions about foreign born children of one American parent (which is his own situation).

There's even a legal scholar out there who has made the case that, for the purposes of US immigration law / citizenship, Hawaii is actually an 'occupied' foreign country ... thus the only 'natural born' citizens of Hawaii are those descended from native inhabitants of Hawaii prior to the time the USA 'occupied' that country in 1893 / 1897. This position is based on United Nations citizenship rules regarding 'occupied' countries (specifically Lithuania and Latvia, which were formerly occupied by the Soviet Union as client 'states'). See . Under the UN (international law) interpretation, being born in the still legally existant but occupied 'foreign country' of Hawaii makes the child a Hawaiian citizen but the child's US citizenship is technically subject to the same immigration laws that apply to every foreign birth ... so again the laws pertaining to the foreign born child of a single US citizen parent become relevant. Yes that's right ... no bilateral treaty of annexation has ever been executed between the Hawaiian Kingdom National Government and the US Gov't, with the UN and the World Court both (still) recognizing the existance of a Hawaiian Kingdom National Government to this day. Thus under international law, even if Barack was born in Hawaii his 'natural born' citizenship status would remain dependent on his 18 year old mother's ability to transfer US citizenship under then existing immigration law (which required 5 years of US residency beyond the age of 16 for the mother to automatically transfer her US citizenship to her child in the absence of a US citizen father).

Again, I'm not voicing a personal wish that Obama be found ineligible for the US presidency. I am simply pointing out that the issue is NOT as cut and dried as many (including the Obama campaign) would like us all to believe, and that the US Supreme Court will have the opportunity to review the situation on December 5th. And in the final analysis, the US congress has the power to confer 'natural born' citizenship status on anyone it so chooses (providing a majority vote can be mustered).

~

glambman
11-26-2008, 03:54 PM
Well, the same thing could be said for the Panama Canal Zone, where McCain was born. So he would also have been ineligible for the presidency.::)


Maybe it was meant for Peter Rabbit to be the President. Any other members of the International Hare Club for Men on here?

miabella
11-27-2008, 12:29 AM
what's the evidence (birth certs, etc), that obama was born in kenya?

Melonie
11-27-2008, 02:59 AM
So he would also have been ineligible for the presidency.

exactly !!! Although both of John's parents were US citizens (thus able to transfer US citizenship without age or residency restrictions), there was enough of a lingering question (i.e. the Panama Canal Zone was never a US territory but WAS under US jurisdiction at the time of John's birth) that last April the US congress saw fit to pass a resolution specifically declaring John McCain to be a 'natural born' US citizen, and expressing Congress' intent to consider every child born to US military personnel stationed overseas as 'natural born' US citizens. See



what's the evidence (birth certs, etc), that obama was born in kenya

as to official documentary evidence in the form of Kenyan hospital records / birth certificate, there is none outside of Kenya ... and not likely to be any since the Kenyan gov't hastily deported an investigative reporter and ordered Kenyan records sealed. See

There were also foreign news stories regarding the grandson of the Imam who was supposedly present for Barack's birth in Kenya bringing mosque records showing Barack's birth 'blessing' with him to the UK. However these foreign news stories have been dead lately ( the 'tin foil hat' crowd would point out that the grandson is now probably dead too ). See

However, all of this is beside the point. Many of the lawsuits have been brought against individual state officials who are responsible for the accuracy of election results in those individual states. The lawsuits claim that it is the duty of these officials to verify the eligibility of any and all candidates placed on the state election ballot. By bringing these lawsuits in this manner, the 'burden of proof' is being shifted to the candidates to prove their eligibility, as opposed to an assumption of eligibility that a third party must 'disprove'.

Again, a big detail is the fact that a Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth can be obtained by a Hawaiian mother with no requirement that her child was actually born in Hawaii ! The Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth released by Obama staff does not include normal Birth Certificate info i.e. the name of the hospital and doctor where the birth took place. Hawaii's governor has also ordered that state records of Obama's (supposed) birth in Hawaii be sealed.

It is of course within the power of the US Supreme Court to order the state of Hawaii to release any and all documents in their possession that relate to Obama's birth. If the Court decides to do so, the actual name and location of the hospital where Obama was born will become public knowledge. However, if Hawaiian hospital records for 1961 fail to show a Barack Obama listed, if Obama's mother's application for a Certificate of Live Birth shows a Nairobi hospital listed as the place of birth etc. then things could get very complicated in a big hurry.

Melonie
12-02-2008, 10:42 AM
and a 'new player' enters the fray ... with a full page ad in the Chicago Tribune ...



(snip)"Mr. Obama is respectfully requested to direct the Hawaiian officials to provide access to his original birth certificate on December 5-7 by our team of forensic scientists, and to provide additional documentary evidence establishing his citizenship status prior to our Washington, D.C. press conference on December 8," the foundation says. PolitiFact has said it has no reason to doubt the authenticity of the document.Among other complaints, the foundation charges:

-that the Obama campaign posted on the Internet an "unsigned, forged and thoroughly discredited, computer-generated birth form created in 2007"
-the Hawaii Dept of Health won't confirm Obama's assertion that you were born in Hawaii (the director of Hawaii's Department of Health on Oct. 31 personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.)
-there are legal affidavits stating Obama was actually born in Kenya
-Obama's grandmother is recorded on tape saying she attended your birth in Kenya.
-In 1965, Obama's mother legally relinquished whatever Kenyan or U.S. citizenship she and her son had by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a naturalized Indonesian citizen."(snip)

(snip)"Right Side News on Sunday so graciously pointed out that "Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the childs birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence. The parents would be issued a Certification of Live Birth. This is not proof of where the child was born. It only proves that the parents claimed Hawaii as their main place of residence for the prior year."

This Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court judges will conference. It's expected the question of whether Obama is actually eligible to become the next president will come up. If four of the nine justices vote to hear the case, brought by Leo C. Donofrio against the New Jersey secretary of state, oral argument may be scheduled. "(snip)

copy of actual Tribune ad here --->

also from the Trib ad ...

(snip)"Each member of the Electoral College, who is committed to casting a vote on December 15, 2008, has a constitutional duty to make certain you are a natural-born citizen. As of today, there is no evidence in the public record (nor have you provided any) that defeats the claim that you are barred by law from assuming the Office of President because you fail the
Constitution’s eligibility requirements.

All state Electors are now on Notice that unless you provide documentary evidence before December 15, that conclusively establishes your eligibility, they cannot cast a vote for you without committing treason to the Constitution."(snip)

Lucy in the Sky
12-02-2008, 11:00 AM
what's the evidence (birth certs, etc), that obama was born in kenya?

There is none. Nothing reputable anyway. It's a bunch of crap being pushed by butthurt election losers who can't deal with reality and prefer to live in La La Land instead.

Miss_Luscious
12-02-2008, 11:14 AM
Just stop it Melonie. It's all bullshit hon.

glambman
12-02-2008, 11:20 AM
As A conservative, I defended him on the nationality issue.

But, it just goes to show what a loser he is when he is ashamed of wherever it is that he was born at. He is such a pussy that he can't even let people know in which (Hawaiian) hospital he was born in.

Miss_Luscious
12-02-2008, 11:33 AM
But, it just goes to show what a loser he is when he is ashamed of wherever it is that he was born at. He is such a pussy that he can't even let people know in which (Hawaiian) hospital he was born in.

LOL wut?

Melonie
12-02-2008, 01:14 PM
Just stop it Melonie. It's all bullshit hon.

All I'm doing is pointing out new wrinkles of news coverage on the subject.

Ultimately, the US supreme court can decide to 'stop it' this Friday ... by denying cert to the Donofrio appeal.

Miss_Luscious
12-02-2008, 01:55 PM
Melonie, you are not fooling anyone by saying you're just reporting it. This is obviously something you believe or else you wouldn't keep posting about it and defending these crazy ass accusations.

Melonie
12-02-2008, 04:42 PM
As I have said repeatedly, the US supreme court will now have the opportunity to evaluate where this issue is 'crazy ass' or not. In all probability, they'll throw the entire subject out the window ... at which point the news stories and my posts on the subject will stop.

bem401
12-06-2008, 01:18 PM
what's the evidence (birth certs, etc), that obama was born in kenya?

I have read his paternal grandmother has said she was present in Kenya at his birth.

If he has nothing to hide, why doesn't he just make everything public? Never before have we had a President elected that we knew so little about. No birth certificate, no school records, no medical records, no theses, no voting records, nothing.

Lucy in the Sky
12-06-2008, 02:21 PM
Never before have we had a President elected that we knew so little about. No birth certificate, no school records, no medical records, no theses, no voting records, nothing.

:loco:

All the above are false claims being made for purely partisan reasons. They have no basis in reality whatsoever.

FBR
12-07-2008, 01:18 PM
Gotta love Pastor Manning. Every time he calls president elect Obama "a long legged mac daddy" I'm like DOH!. Having said that, though, it would so be so easy to shut down the whole internet conspiracy theory rumor mill. One piece of legit paper would do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDljvlIlUu8&eurl=http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/

FBR

Lucy in the Sky
12-07-2008, 01:40 PM
it would so be so easy to shut down the whole internet conspiracy theory rumor mill. One piece of legit paper would do it.


Oh, if only that were true.

Legit proof has been provided. Unfortunately many a wingnut out there have no interest in truth or reality and thus no amount of proof ends their delusions.

I understand they are claiming the entire state of Hawaii is in on this supposed conspiracy.

I believe the SC is supposed to say something on the matter tomorrow though and I expect them to hand the idiots pushing this story their ass and I can't bloody wait because it is going to be so so so funny!!!!!

What do you wanna bet that the idiots buying into this whole "he's not an American" shit will then whine, cry and claim the the Supreme Court is also part of a conspiracy.

Melonie
12-08-2008, 06:40 AM
What do you wanna bet that the idiots buying into this whole "he's not an American" shit will then whine, cry and claim the the Supreme Court is also part of a conspiracy.

doubtful ... that whining and crying is the exclusive province of former Al Gore supporters.

Also, the question is NOT about Obama not being an American. It is specifically about Obama being a 'natural born' American, as required for the office of the presidency.

I am surprised that no news whatsoever has come from the Supreme Court yet. At least if they deny cert it will effectively put this issue to bed.

Lucy in the Sky
12-08-2008, 10:19 AM
doubtful ... that whining and crying is the exclusive province of former Al Gore supporters.


This existence of this topic proves otherwise ;)

Melonie
12-08-2008, 10:28 AM
at any rate, this is now officially a dead issue, since the Supreme Court refused to hear the case !

Miss_Luscious
12-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Good. Close the thread, never bring the issue up again.

threlayer
12-08-2008, 01:37 PM
This link should do it....

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/politics/wire/chi-obama-birth-certificate1dec08,0,5873179.story

Supreme Court Refuses to Consider Obama Citizenship Case

bem401
12-08-2008, 09:13 PM
The court refused it for reasons other than the truth of the matter.

Narcissus
12-08-2008, 11:22 PM
Even though, as I said in the beginning, I think this is mostly just partisan politicking ... I was a little surprised when I realized that Obama really was fighting this and trying to obfuscate his and his family's history.

I was positive it was just ridiculous right-wingers doing what they do best, but his actions do make me wonder ...

:shrug:

We will likely never know now as the SC refused to even review it.

Narcissus

threlayer
12-09-2008, 08:52 AM
The court refused it for reasons other than the truth of the matter.

The court didn't believe it could find anything different in spite of contrary 'opinions' of the 'truth'.

Miss_Luscious
12-09-2008, 09:26 AM
How do people still think this is a legitimate issue? What do you guys think? There is some vast conspiracy that Obama, the state of Hawaii and the Supreme Court are all in on in addition to numerous other people in positions to know the "truth" (including Obama's mother who just knew he was going to run for President some day so she did some devious shit to make sure it looked like he was born in the US)? That's as bad as the 9/11 Truther nutjobs. Oh! One of the main supporters of this bullshit IS a 9/11 Truther. Well whadaya know?

It's a dead issue. It never had merit and it will never have merit so please just let it go. Find something else to obsess over.

Lucy in the Sky
12-09-2008, 09:40 AM
What do you wanna bet that the idiots buying into this whole "he's not an American" shit will then whine, cry and claim the the Supreme Court is also part of a conspiracy.



doubtful ... that whining and crying is the exclusive province of former Al Gore supporters.




The court refused it for reasons other than the truth of the matter.


See?

Can I call 'em or what?

ROFLMAO!!!!!

threlayer
12-09-2008, 07:33 PM
It's a last-gasp effort to turn the election around. IMO