View Full Version : Do you feel a bond with a dancer who sells you low priced dances?
xdamage
11-06-2008, 07:00 AM
If the past is any indicator, the more likely trend will be that the mileage will go up, rather than the price per se coming down.
-Ev
This is indeed a very real possible outcome.
---
But mostly the point is simple. We have many factors pushing against the $20 dance, $1000 night, stripping business, pushing it to change. Things change. Change is not unique to the stripping business.
And it is really not the customers who will make that happen. We are a factor, but it is competition from other, newer dancers that will force the matter. Newer dancers whose views about what is acceptable contact, views about what is sufficient compensation, dancers who may grow up in a repressed economy who need money. And unlike some businesses, there aren't many dancers finishing off the last 25 years of their career as dancers. It is a business for the young.
It is the new ones who will be the ones driving the next generation of pricing and contact levels. The older dancers will compete or quit.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-06-2008, 03:14 PM
If the past is any indicator, the more likely trend will be that the mileage will go up, rather than the price per se coming down.
-Ev
Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.;)
xdamage
11-07-2008, 06:41 AM
Dont go to the strip club if you cannot afford it. Do not go out to the restaurant where a meal is $20 expecting to get it for $5. Just don't go.
Basically that is what is happening. They are not going as much, but...
The key is customers have a choice when it comes to restaurants. They don't yet have much choice when it comes to SCs, but that could change. Until then they wander into the $20 clubs hoping to get something for $10 or $5.
But that could change too. Increasingly clubs may offer 2 for 1, or day time prices, or other slow creeping sales to try and bring in more crowds. Undoubtedly some dancers will leave. Or new clubs will open that target the lower prices to begin with. Or extras will increase, effectively people paying $20, but getting the $50 meal.
It sucks for existing dancers, but on the flip side, it could be argued that stripping prices are being corrected along with much else that has been inflated, and lead to the current economic crash. We had a good lucky run, but it really was a Tulip economy that could not last.
safado
11-07-2008, 03:42 PM
Basically that is what is happening. They are not going as much, but...
The key is customers have a choice when it comes to restaurants. They don't yet have much choice when it comes to SCs, but that could change. Until then they wander into the $20 clubs hoping to get something for $10 or $5.
But that could change too. Increasingly clubs may offer 2 for 1, or day time prices, or other slow creeping sales to try and bring in more crowds. Undoubtedly some dancers will leave. Or new clubs will open that target the lower prices to begin with. Or extras will increase, effectively people paying $20, but getting the $50 meal.
It sucks for existing dancers, but on the flip side, it could be argued that stripping prices are being corrected along with much else that has been inflated, and lead to the current economic crash. We had a good lucky run, but it really was a Tulip economy that could not last.
Hopefully the stripping bubble will burst. I think that the guys who can't afford to go should not go, or if they do they should try to negotiate the prices this may help burst the stripping bubble.
Honestly if all the dancers quit tomorrow because they were not getting enough money per lap dance I think that they be in for a rude awakening. They would find out that finding a good paying job in this economy would not be an easy task. Lets be honest, the strippers are stripping because they don't have other options for high paying work, if they did they would not be stripping.
safado
11-07-2008, 03:43 PM
abcd keep up the good work with the negotiating!
pinkpuff
11-07-2008, 04:40 PM
I do not know why everyone is saying this economy does not support 20 dollar lap dances. Yes dancers were happy with 250 a night back in the day, but back in the day, the cost of living was also way lower. You could buy a house for 90k in Miami when today it costs at least 200k in the middle of nowhere (not even anywhere near the city center) Miami . Back then you could rent an apt in Los Angeles for 300 a month. Now youre lucky if you can find a studio for 1000 a month! Prices of food, goods, homes, education, entertainment, clothing, etc, has all raised. Yet the price of lap dances remains the same. If anything, lap dances today are LESS expensive than they were 10 years ago because 20 bucks does not go as far today as it did back then. 20 bucks will get you an entree at an average restaurant. It will get you a tank of gas on a fuel efficient car only IF gas prices are down. It will get you only 15 minutes of a piano lesson. It will get you a shirt that is on sale! 20 bucks cannot stretch far nowadays, it is not a lot of money, yet you guys are complaining it is a bit steep for 3 mintues with a beautiful girl on your lap? Give me a break. I have worked at clubs where they have 10 dollar dances on mondays (worst part of it is we only get to keep 6 bucks out of that). At one club i only made 100 bucks that day and i had to put up with cheap assholes trying to grab at my bits even though they KNOW this isnt the regular price of a dance. At the other club i sold 50 dances and only made 300 and something. At that same club i usually make at least 300 anyway and sell only 20-30 dances. So no, lowering the price doesnt make us more money. It just attracts cheaper nastier customers, and makes us work twice as hard for the same amount of money.
Also, you can compare our services with other person goods for sale. Ex. Do you try to bargain at an art show? Artists usually place sentimental value on their original pieces of art, so they sell at very very high prices. Yes some people think it is overprices but for the artist they feel they are basically giving it away for free because for them, the time, effort, and love put into the work is worth more than 1k. Obviously art shows are for a different crowd than the average joe, but strip clubs should be the same way. Beautiful women are not discount products! It is not your god given right to have them on your lap, it is a privilege!
Also, to whoever said 5 bucks a dance is a good price because you dont need any education to give dances....wtf. You dont need any skills or education to do a LOT of jobs yet many people with no skills and education (ehem britney spears) make an insane amount of money each year. What you do need to be a stripper is a lot of confidence and a lot of strength to not break down when you constantly have to deal with assholes like you. And that itself is worth more than 5 bucks a pop. Besides no dancer is constantly in the dance booths. I personally give between 20-30 dances a night and thats at 13-15 bucks a dance after the clubs cut. If i were to give dances for 5 bucks id only be making around 100-150 a night. At that rate i might as well work a normal job and get paid the same or more and not have to put up with assholes licking me, fondeling me, degrading me, and insulting me all night.
pinkpuff
11-07-2008, 04:42 PM
PS. The other job i would work would probably be promotional model, which ALSO requires no education and no skills yet they get paid 15-40 an hour. Are you gonna bitch about them too? What about go go dancers? Should they get paid minimum wage because they dont need a degree to work?
xdamage
11-07-2008, 04:57 PM
I do not know why everyone is saying this economy does not support 20 dollar lap dances. Yes dancers were happy with 250 a night back in the day, but back in the day, the cost of living was also way lower.
That would be valid if the customers didn't have the very same complaint. Their salaries haven't kept up with the cost of living either so they have less to spend too.
Also, you can compare our services with other person goods for sale. Ex. Do you try to bargain at an art show? Artists usually place sentimental value on their original pieces of art, so they sell at very very high prices. Yes some people think it is overprices but for the artist they feel they are basically giving it away for free because for them, the time, effort, and love put into the work is worth more than 1k.
Actually people negotiate prices for luxuries all of the time.
Sales in art galleries are quite common as well.
Beautiful women are not discount products! It is not your god given right to have them on your lap, it is a privilege!
This is a self-promoting belief, but it is not possible to demand everyone share in it. People feel how they feel, including that their own time and life is damn important to them.
Part of the the problem is there are so many dancers now the value of it has decreased.
But also it is privilege that we have people who have devoted their lives to being doctors, engineers, teachers, and much else. We are lucky they didn't decide to all decide to become bums, or stoners and we to live in a world of much weed, but little else gets done. They provide valuable contributions to society and it is not our god given right that they do any of that, it is also a privilege we all enjoy that other people provide other services.
These other people in society work very hard for their money too, and if they decide $20 for 3 minutes is no longer a good value to them, then they won't pay it. Many people work all day or more then one day to clear $20. They feel their life has value too. That they earned their play time. But it doesn't mean they must agree that $20 for 3 minutes of teasing is a good value, and that they must pay that price.
Then it is a simple. The choice is $0 from them, or try to find a price where they feel it is a fair trade again.
In many ways though this is a simple matter. There is no absolute value to dancing. It is whatever the market will bare. If the value goes up, dancers are happier. If the value goes down, customers are happier. Somewhere in there is middle ground where both are reasonably satisfied, but there really is no absolute value to LDs. It is whatever people think it is worth to them to pay, and whatever people think it is worth to sell.
pinkpuff
11-07-2008, 05:54 PM
That would be valid if the customers didn't have the very same complaint. Their salaries haven't kept up with the cost of living either so they have less to spend too.
They may not be earning as much as they would like to but there is no denying that wages have gone up from ten years ago. Minimum wage in CA is 8/hr. 10 years ago it was what...4 an hour? i don't even know, i was too young to work back then.
These other people in society work very hard for their money too, and if they decide $20 for 3 minutes is no longer a good value to them, then they won't pay it. Many people work all day or more then one day to clear $20. They feel their life has value too. That they earned their play time. But it doesn't mean they must agree that $20 for 3 minutes of teasing is a good value, and that they must pay that price.
Are you seriously comparing us to people in third world countries who are horribly taking advantage of and devalued, dehumanized, and forced to work for free basically? I guess it is a fair comparsion since by saying we are not worth 20 bucks for 3 minutes you basically are dehumanizing us. Those people are SLAVES and what walmart and other big blue collar corps are doing to them is plain EVIL. This is why I prefer to pay more for something hand made than get a discount on somethng mass produced by someone who is overworked and underpayed. I agree those people work hard and they should be payed MORE than they are getting. Just because these people exists does not mean we should all have to work hard 10 hours a day for 20 bucks total. I mean would you like to do that?
And yes EVERYONE must pay that price. We are human beings, not objects, we are not going to give you a deal just because you make less money. If you cant afford a dance then dont step inside a strip club. Plain and simple. I cant afford a 2k chanel purse as much as I would love one, so i dont step into the Chanel store. i dont see how strip clubs are any different and why guys feel that it is their right to get dances. its not. Just like any luxury item it is reserved for people who can afford it, and if you cant, then tough. That purse isnt going to go on a half off sale just because you think its too pricy.
Honestly if all the dancers quit tomorrow because they were not getting enough money per lap dance I think that they be in for a rude awakening. They would find out that finding a good paying job in this economy would not be an easy task. Lets be honest, the strippers are stripping because they don't have other options for high paying work, if they did they would not be stripping.
Obviously you think of strippers as uneducated morons who cant take care of themselves if it wasnt for sex work. No wonder you think that they should give you discounts. You think so lowly of them. Honestly if they are that stupid and useless then why do you patronize them? I dont get it. Anyway there are SEVERAL alternatives that strippers can do that would give them the same income as if they were giving 5 dollar dances without a need for formal education. Promotional modeling, bartending, mainstream modeling, catering, hostessing, waitressing, etc, etc. The girls who do give the discounts ARE in fact the girls who have nothing else going for them, they are unattractive, in bad shape, have no education, are addicted to drugs and alcohol, have no social skills, etc, etc. YEs these strippers are in for a rude awakening if they decide to quit, but these same girls are the girls who are more likely to stay and perform extras and discounts. The girls who will quit are the girls who know they can and HAVE made more money doing mainstream work. I am one of them, and if ever my earnings go down to less than 200 a night, im going back to promo work, catering, and bar tending till i get enough experience to get a decent paying job in the field i got a degree in. Stop assuming we are idiots. All humans are capable of finding a normal decent paying jobs, why do you assume strippers are incapable of it? Obviously its not going to be as easy finding a job that will pay 500 and up a night. And the reason we do it is for the possibliity of making that much at such a young age. But its true that MOST people between the age of 20-30 aren't pullling in over 60k a year. Now if prices go down we will be pulling in the same money as others in our age group working normal jobs 100-200 a day, in that case, the normal job seems more attractive. And if you think strippers are incapable of making 100 a day without having to strip then you truly truly do hate strippers and think very very low of them.
But that could change too. Increasingly clubs may offer 2 for 1, or day time prices, or other slow creeping sales to try and bring in more crowds. Undoubtedly some dancers will leave. Or new clubs will open that target the lower prices to begin with. Or extras will increase, effectively people paying $20, but getting the $50 meal.
Deja Vu clubs do this. specials every day but fri and sat. as a result what could have been a high end club has turned into a blue collar club full of hobbiests who go to the club looking for happy endings for as little money as they can possibly spend. As a result, the girls who last there are unsophisticated and are used to poverty, so they stay and take what they get. The patrons are all a bunch of factory workers or cheap pervs looking for walmart specials, and the earning potential both for the girls and the club levels out after about 500 bucks a shift and thats IF the girl gets lucky and gets a customer who actually tips. Afterall there is only so many lap dances a girl can give in a night.
xdamage
11-07-2008, 07:21 PM
They may not be earning as much as they would like to but there is no denying that wages have gone up from ten years ago. Minimum wage in CA is 8/hr. 10 years ago it was what...4 an hour? i don't even know, i was too young to work back then.
Things change. One reason dancers made more 20 years ago is because they put up with more social stigma for that money. Today they put up with less, so the value has declined.
Are you seriously comparing us to people in third world countries who are horribly taking advantage of and devalued, dehumanized, and forced to work for free basically? I guess it is a fair comparsion since by saying we are not worth 20 bucks for 3 minutes you basically are dehumanizing us.
What does third world countries have to do with it? But I am going to turn this around on you...
Many people in our society work for a lot less then $20 per 3 minutes. Many work for a few dollars an hour. I might just as well argue that by insisting that your time is worth $20 for 3 minutes, they are the ones that are being dehumanized. Because in essence it implies that you really don't appreciate what the average person goes through to clear $20, let alone $100 or $200 for a SC visit, or $400-$500 for 1 hour in CR.
I am being serious though. The value of sex and our bodies and any work we choose to do, it really is all in our heads. We people make it up. There is no absolute value sheet. Different societies at different times in history weigh the value of things differently, including sex.
Really, I am dead serious. And I really am dead serious that many people in our society struggle and toil and have hard lives, and feel they should be paid more, but aren't. Since you aren't showing any compassion for their human suffering, why would you expect them to show any pity for dancers who aren't dong as well as they did in the past?
I am really dead serious. In most people's minds your body has no more value to them then their own or their own lives.
The thing is in most people's minds you have CHOSEN to be a dancer. Yu are not forced to do it. If the compensation is not adequate for you or any dancer, simple, do one of the jobs they are doing. But if you don't. If you still choose to be a dancer, it must be you think it is a better choice that the choice to do one of those other hard jobs for less money, or more stress, or whatever reason you don't.
Look it is simple. You want to convince us that you are worth $20 per dance. And that is fine. But you really don't hold an absolute truth here. You really do just believe it because it is in your best interest. LDs really don't have any inherent value handed down by God. There is no dehumanizing here. You are not forced to dance. You can do something else. You choose it. You are NOT a Victim. You are choosing this work and other people in our society have a right to choose their work, and what LDs are worth to them. If they choose that it is not worth $20, you lose, end of story. You can believe anything you want, but it won't change that the people spending their HARD EARNED money will choose how they will. And if other dancers after you will do it for less and it brings in new customers, that is what will happen. Such is the free market economy we live in.
pinkpuff
11-07-2008, 07:45 PM
What does third world countries have to do with it? But I am going to turn this around on you...
Many people in our society work for a lot less then $20 per 3 minutes. Many work for a few dollars an hour. I might just as well argue that by insisting that your time is worth $20 for 3 minutes, they are the ones that are being dehumanized. Because in essence it implies that you really don't appreciate what the average person goes through to clear $20, let alone $100 or $200 for a SC visit, or $400-$500 for 1 hour in CR.
Where else would a human being slave away for 8-12 hours a day for 20 bucks total? That is where i got third world country from. You mentioned that a lot of people work their asses off for only 20 bucks a day. This does not happen in the US. This only happens in 3rd world nations where evil american businesses outsource their work and basically treat people like slaves.
You are right...but who said we work for more than a few dollars an hour too? We are not doing lap dances at all times while in the club. Sometimes it takes 10mins to an hour just to convince a guy to go into the lap dance booth. That time alone is UNPAID. Sometimes we only do one dance per hour. Sometimes we only do one dance per shift! Its not like we are making 20 bucks every 3 minutes we are there. In many clubs the club takes half the dancers earnings, yet the club doesn have to sit on any laps, put up with harrassment, get molested, etc. yet why isnt anyone complaining that strip clubs in general make too much money for nothing?
The AVERAGE person should not be going to strip clubs. Again, do you see the average persopn making purchases at Burberry, Gucci? NO. How many times do I have to say this? Lap dances are not a god given right that every man deserves. A lot of men dont go to strip clubs and lead perfectly happy lives. If you cant afford it, stay out of the club. Its so ridiculous too how i am sure you guys are totally cool with spending 500-1000 a night on alcohol (bottle service) or 300 bucks for a suit, 500 bucks for shoes, yet you cringe at paying 20 bucks for a lap dance.
. And I really am dead serious that many people in our society struggle and toil and have hard lives, and feel they should be paid more, but aren't. Since you aren't showing any compassion for their human suffering, why would you expect them to show any pity for dancers who aren't dong as well as they did in the past?
When the heck have i not said they shouldnt be paid more? of course they should be payed more. did you not read my third world country walmart employees rant? a lot of people in the world are taken advantage of, i agree, but that doesnt mean that because a lot of people are dehumanized and enslaved that i should be treated the same way. NO ONE should be treated like that. Of course I am compassionate for them. What i cannot be compassionate for is a guy who makes no money and goes to the club anyway expecting to get special treatment because he is poor. Sorry, not gonna happen. I volunteer at shelters several times a week. I do try to help, i do feel for these people, but i cant feel bad for the ones who CHOSE to go into a strip club when they know they cant afford it. Strip clubs are not like food. you dont need em to survive.
I am really dead serious. In most people's minds your body has no more value to them then their own or their own lives.
of course, i never said there werent evil disgusting vile people in the world. tons of people dont value other human beings. case in point, the ceos of walmart.
The thing is in most people's minds you have CHOSEN to be a dancer.
okay and you chose to be a plummer. does that mean that you should be willing to give away your services for 5 dollars an hour?
LDs really don't have any inherent value handed down by God. neither does anything in this world.
You can believe anything you want, but it won't change that the people spending their HARD EARNED money will choose how they will.
do you complain any time you have to pull out cash? I mean at the grocery store do you complain when you have to spend your hard earned money on food? honestly if your job is that HARD that you feel so bad parting with any money you make maybe YOU should change jobs. afterall no one is forcing you to do it :-)
evan_essence
11-07-2008, 09:06 PM
It's futile, pinkpuff, but don't take it personally. He's too busy oversimplifying hypotheticals and secretly salivating about strippers getting a cum-up-pants, er, I mean comeuppance. If customers en masse won't pay $20, clubs will simply close. Dancers who don't think it's worth it to work twice as hard for a lower class of customer in order to earn the same total amount of money will quit. Perhaps moving to webcam and other virtual "art" (ha). What's left of SCs will deteriorate; it's already happening because prices aren't going up. Hard to believe, but some of us actually cultivate our options. Some of us have an education and we saved and invested some of our higher earnings to avoid getting into the desperate situation that X describes. X, you don't have to buy it, but I don't have to produce it either, if I deem my cost in time, money and sanity to be greater than the payoff.
Besides, there's always the potential for a government bailout of the SC industry. Then you'll pay it in higher taxes and inflation, X. So you can pay her now or you can pay her later. :P
-Ev
yoda57us
11-07-2008, 09:30 PM
I pretty much agree with Ev...
Honestly, I don't see the younger girls driving anything in the clubs I go to. Many of the dancers are over thirty and do very well using their looks and their personalities to get guys to spend time and money on them.
My observation is that a lot of the younger girls don;t know the first thing about making money in a strip during good times much less in bad times. Too many younger dancer spend all night hanging out with cute guys who buy them drinks but don't spend any money on them.
As far as all of this talk about discounting goes, well, I don't see it, then again I don't go looking for it either. I would say that guys who shop for bargains and dancers who offer them pretty much deserve each other...
hockeybobby
11-07-2008, 09:51 PM
Twenty bucks for a lapdance sounds about right to me.
In a perfect hockeybobby world strippers would make more money than professional athletes...then again, so would school bus drivers and daycare workers.
xdamage
11-08-2008, 06:16 AM
It's futile, pinkpuff, but don't take it personally. He's too busy oversimplifying hypotheticals and secretly salivating about strippers getting a cum-up-pants, er, I mean comeuppance. If
As usual EE you resort to strawmen and attacks once you start losing these arguments.
In the past you were wrong about the effects of social stigma on the business. You were wrong about the increase extras. You had to resort to trying and demonizing men and any customers who disagreed with you. This is frankly a foul technique.
And again you are wrong about how this business will turn out in the future. You are wrong because if there is money to be made, someone will make it. And the fact is $10 a dance for 3 minutes is still very very good money to most people in the USA.*
I never said any such thing about salivating etc... nor do I care. In fact I haven't even been myself to an SC in a year and my visits dropped off long. Nor do I cum in SCs. Nor do I use prostitutes.
See I just don't care. That may be hard to understand??? That I just couldn't give a shit abot what happens to SCs. It is just a business to me and it will change like others do. But I still face reality the way it is.
...customers en masse won't pay $20, clubs will simply close. Dancers who don't think it's worth it to work twice as hard for a lower class of customer in order to earn the same total amount of money will quit.
Many will quit, some SCs will close, some will open. But given the huge number of women working in the sex industry "world wide" for less, I have no reason to believe that it won't turn out the same in the USA.
* By the way it is insulting to a lot of people to judge their "class". $10 ever 3 minutes, say $200 for an hour in a CR room is a good chunk of money for many people in and out of this country, both to earn, and to spend. Likewise many European women work in the industry in Europe where the thinking about the sex industry is more liberal do a lot more for less. They are not lesser people for it any more then are the customers. They just have a different expectation of what the trade is worth to them.
xdamage
11-08-2008, 06:40 AM
My observation is that a lot of the younger girls don;t know the first thing about making money in a strip during good times much less in bad times. Too many younger dancer spend all night hanging out with cute guys who buy them drinks but don't spend any money on them.
Maybe not, but my extension, if we blaim that on youth, they probably also are not predicting long term (e.g, 10+ years) out economic trends either since they lack any experience with it.
As far as all of this talk about discounting goes, well, I don't see it, then again I don't go looking for it either. I would say that guys who shop for bargains and dancers who offer them pretty much deserve each other...
Well you don't look to pay less, but not everyone who can afford or earns $10 sees themselves as lesser people for it. We need to be careful about judging them since we are all one crisis away from being poorer. Those customers deserve to enjoy life. Those dancers deserve to make some money. Not necessarily piles of gold, but something above a base salary, and relative to the supply and demand. $200 an hour in a CR vs today's $400 may well be good compensation for many in the future.
Likewise you go on spending well, but I wouldn't use you personally as the measure of the entire US economic or sex industry trends.
mr_punk
11-08-2008, 07:21 AM
Its so ridiculous too how i am sure you guys are totally cool with spending 500-1000 a night on alcohol (bottle service) or 300 bucks for a suit, 500 bucks for shoes, yet you cringe at paying 20 bucks for a lap dance.true, but unlike some of those items. one can expect a certain level of quality or return/exchange said item if one doesn't like it. in the end, whether a LD costs 5, 20 or 50 dollars there's no such guarantee.
Besides, there's always the potential for a government bailout of the SC industry. Then you'll pay it in higher taxes and inflation, X. So you can pay her now or you can pay her later.LOL..just as long as it comes with a goverment stimulation (and i mean that literally. get out your goverment issued cocktail napkins and kneepads, girls!) package?
safado
11-08-2008, 04:19 PM
* By the way it is insulting to a lot of people to judge their "class". $10 ever 3 minutes, say $200 for an hour in a CR room is a good chunk of money for many people in and out of this country, both to earn, and to spend. Likewise many European women work in the industry in Europe where the thinking about the sex industry is more liberal do a lot more for less. They are not lesser people for it any more then are the customers. They just have a different expectation of what the trade is worth to them.
Actually the talk of "lower class" customers is funny if you think about, here we have women who take their clothes off and grind on strange dicks for money talking about "lower class" customers. Somehow I don't think they would be considered to be classy women.
yoda57us
11-08-2008, 04:44 PM
Well you don't look to pay less, but not everyone who can afford or earns $10 sees themselves as lesser people for it. We need to be careful about judging them since we are all one crisis away from being poorer. Those customers deserve to enjoy life. Those dancers deserve to make some money. Not necessarily piles of gold, but something above a base salary, and relative to the supply and demand. $200 an hour in a CR vs today's $400 may well be good compensation for many in the future.
Likewise you go on spending well, but I wouldn't use you personally as the measure of the entire US economic or sex industry trends.
Lesser people? Those are your words not mine X. I've already said that discounting dance prices is not a wise move financially and I explained why I feel that way. I don't beleive I have made any moral judgements here. Please point them out if I have.
My simple contention X is that that what you predict and what others say MUST happen simply isn't happening nor, in my opinion, will it ever. Yes there are some girls who will discount and yes there are guys who will ask. It's not a trend, it's an exception.
Believe me I'm well aware that I may be the exception in some ways to the "average" strip club customer. I don't make my observations based on my spending habits but rather based on actual conversations I have with real live dancers who have been at this for a while and seen good times and bad times. I am not however throwing piles of money around.
Sure I am generous and I don't go to a club to sit and watch. However I go when I can afford to go. I'm self employed and if it was a slow month I will probably skip the strip club visit rather than spend money that should go to something other than entertainment.
I don't begrudge anyone a good time. You will never hear me say however that trying to negotiate the price of a lap dance is anything but crass. Visiting a strip club is not a right. It's a night, or afternoon of entertainment. If you can't afford to play a round of golf do you show up at the course anyway and ask them if they will accept half of the fee? Do you go to a casino and ask for $500 worth of chips then only try to pay $250? Frankly, I don't see the difference other than the fact that there is obviously a subset of strip club patrons who don't value a dancer's time as much as the dancer does.
pinkpuff
11-08-2008, 05:06 PM
As usual EE you resort to strawmen and attacks once you start losing these arguments.
In the past you were wrong about the effects of social stigma on the business. You were wrong about the increase extras. You had to resort to trying and demonizing men and any customers who disagreed with you. This is frankly a foul technique.
And again you are wrong about how this business will turn out in the future. You are wrong because if there is money to be made, someone will make it. And the fact is $10 a dance for 3 minutes is still very very good money to most people in the USA.*
...
Likewise many European women work in the industry in Europe where the thinking about the sex industry is more liberal do a lot more for less. They are not lesser people for it any more then are the customers. They just have a different expectation of what the trade is worth to them.
You say "10 dollars for 3 minutes" as if we made 10 dollars every 3 minutes. 10 dollars every 3 minutes is 200 an hour. I dont even make that now doing 20-40 dollar dances (where I keep 13-24 of that money). I definately wouldnt make it doing ten dollar dances considering the time spend hustling is NOT PAID.
And yes they ARE lesser people and its one of the reason i hate dancing for european man. They are grabby, disrespectful, and cheap. They hate women, and the women there who go along with it hate themselves.
Would you like it if some stranger (for the most part one that you would never find attractive) was grabbing your cock, tugging on your chest forcing you to grind by grabbing your hips and pushing you back and forth, and constantly trying to lick you? All for only 10 bucks? I really want an answer to this.
pinkpuff
11-08-2008, 05:11 PM
Actually the talk of "lower class" customers is funny if you think about, here we have women who take their clothes off and grind on strange dicks for money talking about "lower class" customers. Somehow I don't think they would be considered to be classy women.
the only thing that would make us lower class is if we were following what you guys wanted and giving away 5 dollar handjobs.
we are trying to stay out of being low class by demanding at least 20 bucks for a CLEAN dance with no extras.
anywya, if you think we are so trashy and disgusting then why do you patronize us? Even worse, why do you GET OFF on us if we are so gross and low class? I personally do not want to be sexually stimulated by someone low class...i dont know about you.
Do you find the girls working at mcdonalds for min wage to be classier because they arent taking off their clothes? what about bikini dancers? Are they classy because they dont show their boobs? since when does being nude= low class? low class is about attitude and income. plenty of dancers are low class, but being a dancer doesnt automatically make you low class
safado
11-08-2008, 05:20 PM
You say "10 dollars for 3 minutes" as if we made 10 dollars every 3 minutes. 10 dollars every 3 minutes is 200 an hour. I dont even make that now doing 20-40 dollar dances (where I keep 13-24 of that money). I definately wouldnt make it doing ten dollar dances considering the time spend hustling is NOT PAID.
Well you definitely won't be able to make enough with $10 dances with an attitude like that.
And yes they ARE lesser people and its one of the reason i hate dancing for european man. They are grabby, disrespectful, and cheap. They hate women, and the women there who go along with it hate themselves.
You sound like an elitist.
Would you like it if some stranger (for the most part one that you would never find attractive) was grabbing your cock, tugging on your chest forcing you to grind by grabbing your hips and pushing you back and forth, and constantly trying to lick you? All for only 10 bucks? I really want an answer to this.
It seems like you are not cut out for stripping may be you should find a different line of work.
safado
11-08-2008, 05:40 PM
the only thing that would make us lower class is if we were following what you guys wanted and giving away 5 dollar handjobs.
we are trying to stay out of being low class by demanding at least 20 bucks for a CLEAN dance with no extras.
anywya, if you think we are so trashy and disgusting then why do you patronize us? Even worse, why do you GET OFF on us if we are so gross and low class? I personally do not want to be sexually stimulated by someone low class...i dont know about you.
Do you find the girls working at mcdonalds for min wage to be classier because they arent taking off their clothes? what about bikini dancers? Are they classy because they dont show their boobs? since when does being nude= low class? low class is about attitude and income. plenty of dancers are low class, but being a dancer doesnt automatically make you low class
I didn't say that I was classier then strippers. That's alright I understand, you are one of those strippers who thinks that you are so much better and classier than customers, well I have some news for you, your not. Dancers and customers are just different sides of the same coin as far as being classy.
doc-catfish
11-08-2008, 05:45 PM
Arguments like this make me glad I've found a couple of gals who do private parties.
I get the benefit of 60 minutes (sometimes 90) of entertainment with a quality entertainer, without having drinks pushed on me, without being "wannadanced" 37 times, without having to hear an obnoxious DJ playing the latest cocaine techno remix, without having to walk out of the club smelling like an ashtray, without having to ask a gal for a dance only to have her disappear into the abyss...
About my only ancillary expenses are gas money (which I'd spend anyway to go the club), and a motel room (which is mitigated considerably once you consider the lack of a door cover, overpriced drinks, tips, etc).
And when you consider the hourly fee for a PD is usually cheaper than an hour's equivalent of dances, or most certainly use of a SC's VIP room, well, what can I say, you can have your cake and eat it too.
Similarly there are benefits for the dancer. She gets to set her own prices. She gets to limit whom she'll work with in such a setting and under what terms. She goes in knowing that she's going to get paid for 100% of her time. She doesn't have to hustle anybody in hopes of making a sale. There are no house fees, no DJ's or bouncers to tip out. No illegal docs. No stupid drink quotas to make.
Not an applicable situation for everyone I agree, but when it is, I don't know why we bother with the club setting anymore. Its tremendously inefficient and irritating to both parties.
pinkpuff
11-08-2008, 06:05 PM
Well you definitely won't be able to make enough with $10 dances with an attitude like that.
It seems like you are not cut out for stripping may be you should find a different line of work.
No one would be able to make enough selling 10 dollar dances, even in a packed house where you are the most gorgeous and talented girl working. its just not humanly possible. you would have to have a super quick hustle and keep guys in the booths for a minimum 5 songs each to make any money. Youd have to take absolutely no breaks and hustle each guy for less than half a song. i make more than enough doing 20-40 dollar dances anyway so i dont see how you say im not cut out for stripping. Cut out for being a cheap hooker? I agree, i am not cut out for that. But stripper does not equal cheap hooker. You want a cheap hooker? Go out and find a homeless drug addicted gal on the streets. They have "great attitudes."
I didn't say that I was classier then strippers. That's alright I understand, you are one of those strippers who thinks that you are so much better and classier than costomers, well I have some news for you, your not. Dancers and costumers are just different sides of the same coin as far as being classy goes.
if you think you are just as classless as the strippers you are insulting then you have no room to call anyone low class.
And i never said i was classier than the "costomers." Some customers are far more superior than I will ever be while some are trash. They are all different. Though it is pretty clear most strippers are in fact classier than YOU. And at first I thought that was a typo but then I see you calling "customers" "costumers" as well. Perhaps some customers are costumers as well but I have yet to meet one. Or in words you would understand "I have yet to MEAT one"
safado
11-08-2008, 06:14 PM
And at first I thought that was a typo but then I see you calling "customers" "costumers" as well. Perhaps some customers are costumers as well but I have yet to meet one. Or in words you would understand "I have yet to MEAT one"
It was a typo. Have you considered becoming a spelling teacher?
safado
11-08-2008, 06:17 PM
Cut out for being a cheap hooker? I agree, i am not cut out for that.
So you have tried it?
safado
11-08-2008, 06:47 PM
Go out and find a homeless drug addicted gal on the streets.
I think you are a guy trolling this site probably one of the stripper web fan boys, what woman calls women gals. I think your a troll
doc-catfish
11-08-2008, 06:50 PM
I think you are a guy trolling this site probably one of the stripper web fan boys, what woman calls women gals. I think your a troll
I think she's your dancer equivalent, but what the hell do I know? :shrug:
rockie
11-08-2008, 07:18 PM
"ABCD" would be my prime suspect for "trollage"! I'm not sure he's posted anything in SW that wasn't meant to tweak dancers endlessly.
pinkpuff
11-08-2008, 07:19 PM
It was a typo. Have you considered becoming a spelling teacher?
One time is a typo. Doing it twice just means you have some loose screws.
xdamage
11-08-2008, 08:26 PM
Let me put it like this.
I think LD prices are due for a price adjustment the same way I think house prices were long over due.
I am sure the real estate agents, banks, brokers and suck up sycophants will tell you otherwise, but they are not facing reality. They are praying on stars or lying to gain favor like weak sycophants hoping to gain sexual favors they never actually get.
House price adjusted no matter how many people whined about it. It is due for LD prices to adjust too. It is not rare enough or valuable enough any more to warrant $20 for 3 minutes. It use to be for sure but things change. If you cant deal with change that is not my problem. Shit changes. Smart people face it and adjust accordingly. Losers go on hoping the past is permanent. I choose to be smart. The losers can believe anything that makes them feel good or makes them think women like them (when infact they never reap any real benefit, but nobody said synchophants were smart, just weasels who go for dregs).
pinkpuff
11-08-2008, 08:38 PM
Let me put it like this.
I think LD prices are due for a price adjustment the same way I think house prices were long over due.
I am sure the real estate agents, banks, brokers and suck up sycophants will tell you otherwise, but they are not facing reality. They are praying on stars or lying to gain favor like weak sycophants hoping to gain sexual favors they never actually get.
House price adjusted no matter how many people whined about it. It is due for LD prices to adjust too. It is not rare enough or valuable enough any more to warrant $20 for 3 minutes. It use to be for sure but things change. If you cant deal with change that is not my problem. Shit changes. Smart people face it and adjust accordingly. Losers go on hoping the past is permanent. I choose to be smart. The losers can believe anything that makes them feel good or makes them think women like them (when infact they never reap any real benefit, but nobody said synchophants were smart, just weasels who go for dregs).
By not going up even though the value of a dollar has gone down, lap dances prices have already adjusted. The only reason housing prices are going down is because they had gone up, A LOT. Ten years ago you could buy a house in a big city's suburb for 90k. now it is at least 200k for a little one story house, so going down to say 180k is still higher than it used to be. You could compare it if say topless or bikini lap dances were now 60 bucks but you cant compare something that has drastically changed in price over the years to something that has not.
I am really curious as to why you are registered and post on a site called stripper web if you hate strippers so much and don't even go to strip clubs....
hockeybobby
11-08-2008, 08:40 PM
Some of the people in this thread have "issues". :D
xdamage
11-08-2008, 09:40 PM
Looks none of us are wealthy.
Stop being whiny children. Nobody gives a shit you don't make $1000 a night.
NONE of us do. Well, I know spoiled children who do.
Honestly we dont give a shit if you work all night for $200. The fact that you dont comprehend most people take home less per night marks you as a whiny spoiled entitled child.
Fact is the world doesnt care!!!
Most of us work 8-12 hours non-stop for less money. We just dont give a fuck if your would have to increase your load from 2hrs to 4hrs to clear $500. It is so whiney on our reality scale we seriously do NOT care.
If you dont have what it takes then QUIT. DO IT NOW. GREAT!!!! Make room for the next person.
Stop being a whiney child. End of story.
safado
11-09-2008, 09:34 AM
Looks none of us are wealthy.
Stop being whiny children. Nobody gives a shit you don't make $1000 a night.
NONE of us do. Well, I know spoiled children who do.
Honestly we dont give a shit if you work all night for $200. The fact that you dont comprehend most people take home less per night marks you as a whiny spoiled entitled child.
Fact is the world doesnt care!!!
Most of us work 8-12 hours non-stop for less money. We just dont give a fuck if your would have to increase your load from 2hrs to 4hrs to clear $500. It is so whiney on our reality scale we seriously do NOT care.
If you dont have what it takes then QUIT. DO IT NOW. GREAT!!!! Make room for the next person.
Stop being a whiney child. End of story.
Great post, it should be made into a sticky.
yoda57us
11-09-2008, 11:27 AM
Stop being whiny children. Nobody gives a shit you don't make $1000 a night.
NONE of us do. Well, I know spoiled children who do.
Honestly we dont give a shit if you work all night for $200. The fact that you dont comprehend most people take home less per night marks you as a whiny spoiled entitled child.
Fact is the world doesnt care!!!
Most of us work 8-12 hours non-stop for less money. We just dont give a fuck if your would have to increase your load from 2hrs to 4hrs to clear $500. It is so whiney on our reality scale we seriously do NOT care.
If you dont have what it takes then QUIT. DO IT NOW. GREAT!!!! Make room for the next person.
Stop being a whiney child. End of story.
Great post, it should be made into a sticky.
LOL, this is a board about strip clubs and strippers..
You guys don't seriously expect dancers to show up here and agree with you...do you?
JoeUnCool
11-09-2008, 01:50 PM
LOL, this is a board about strip clubs and strippers..
You guys don't seriously expect dancers to show up here and agree with you...do you?
I find that this is the way that most online communities operate. Typically, few people will change their mind based on what they read in a forum. Add in the fact that a fair number of strippers tend towards the "us against the customers/world" crap and I have found that dancers rarely agree with non-dancers. its just the way it is.
yoda57us
11-09-2008, 03:02 PM
I find that this is the way that most online communities operate. Typically, few people will change their mind based on what they read in a forum. Add in the fact that a fair number of strippers tend towards the "us against the customers/world" crap and I have found that dancers rarely agree with non-dancers. its just the way it is.
I agree that that is, in general the way most of these types of forums operate. Honestly, I come here for entertainment, not to be educated. I already know everything I need to know when walking into a strip club. The discussions and arguments here only serve to confirm what I have known for years about different approaches that dancers take and the different types of customers who go to clubs. Be that as it may, intelligent, even stubborn debate is entertaining to me.
I tend to agree with the dancers POV much of the time but everybody knows I'm just a dancer suck-up.
bem401
11-09-2008, 04:00 PM
If you can't afford to play a round of golf do you show up at the course anyway and ask them if they will accept half of the fee? Do you go to a casino and ask for $500 worth of chips then only try to pay $250? Frankly, I don't see the difference other than the fact that there is obviously a subset of strip club patrons who don't value a dancer's time as much as the dancer does.
In a faltering economy, the cost of a membership in a golf club decreases substantially and the cost of a round of golf takes a hit also at public courses. In short, they charge what they can to maximize their income. Casinos offer enticements to get more gamblers in or they lay off a thousand workers like Foxwoods recently did. I don't see how a SC is immune to the market forces. If the lapdance-buying public were suddenly were not willing to pay a certain price for a dance, the price will go down. I am not advocating anything here, just making observations about what might transpire.
One final observation..... One girl I'm friendly with makes a killing on $10 or 2 for $20 days. Sure, she works harder, but she makes at least as much in total as she does on regular days from individual dances. I think the girls would be hurt more by a drop in CR prices where they are locked in for a longer period of time at a lower price.
yoda57us
11-09-2008, 04:11 PM
I knew you would love my golf comparison BEM. Since I don't play I won't question your facts.
As far as Casinos go, an incentive to show up is not the same thing as offering a discount on chips and layoffs have nothing to do with anything as far as my argument goes.
I don't think SC's are immune to anything. I just don't happen to believe that there will be a massive market correction on the $20 lap dance. Clubs and dancers will simply make less money, as many of us do in slow times. Most veteran dancers understand this and they simply live on what they make or work more shifts to try and make more money.
As far as the club-wide half price dance days I actually have no problem with them. In fact, a fav of mine has suggested them to management at her club on slow days. The club-wide discount levels the playing field. Guys can go in on those days and get a deal and the ladies are not competing with each other based on price. As you say, there are ladies who make a killing, I have known quite a few as well. By the same token there are those that won't work those shifts. I think it makes more sense to go in on those days and take advantage of the increased customer traffic. Every dancer looks at it differently but the ones who work those shifts and do well simply accept the fact that you are going to go in and work a seven or eight hour shift anyway. It's how much you walk out with on a slow Monday that matters.
JoeUnCool
11-09-2008, 04:20 PM
I tend to agree with the dancers POV much of the time but everybody knows I'm just a dancer suck-up.
You a**kisser. :)
bem401
11-09-2008, 04:34 PM
Actually, I see the incentives as essentially the same thing as discounted chips. I just see them as a way to give you more value for the money they anticipate you losing.
If they were to sell discounted chips and let you redeem them at fulll price, I'd never have to work again.
The layoff aspect was analogous to the loss of dancers or even the closing of clubs.
yoda57us
11-09-2008, 05:31 PM
Actually, I see the incentives as essentially the same thing as discounted chips. I just see them as a way to give you more value for the money they anticipate you losing.
Well, you can see it that way if you want but the casinos don't. The VAST majority of the casino's revenue is derived from gambling not from room nights or meals.
The layoff aspect was analogous to the loss of dancers or even the closing of clubs.
The difference is dancers just go to work at another club if the one they are at closes. When a club in Johnston RI closed a while back all of the dancers just showed up at the other clubs in the area the next week. None of them even lost a shift. As long as you are willing to take your clothes off, have an ID and the house fee you can always find a job as a dancer.
Also, dancers don't get laid off. Some get fired for disciplinary reasons but again, they just move to another club. Quiting dancing because you don't think the money is good enough is not the same as losing your job.
yoda57us
11-09-2008, 05:32 PM
You a**kisser. :)
Yup, both cheeks. I aim for right below the tan lines...
doc-catfish
11-09-2008, 05:53 PM
In a faltering economy, the cost of a membership in a golf club decreases substantially and the cost of a round of golf takes a hit also at public courses. In short, they charge what they can to maximize their income.
Which sometimes means charging more. I just gave you can example of a public golf course in my hometown some odd pages back which actually raised fees. They know their demographics and realize two things. The middle class blue collar golfer isn't playing as much golf because is these slow economic times, he has had to sacrifice his golf time for other commitments. That customer is not coming back if green fees are lowered 25%. Meanwhile, the upper middle class white collar golfer who still has time to golf also has more money to spend on it and can handle the uptick in fees.
Casinos offer enticements to get more gamblers in or they lay off a thousand workers like Foxwoods recently did.
Casinos only offer those enticements if there is net revenue to be made on them. Perhaps Foxwoods had to lay off those people because the gamblers that such enticements would have brought in are tapped out and have no money to spend. You can't get water out of a dry well.
I don't see how a SC is immune to the market forces. If the lapdance-buying public were suddenly were not willing to pay a certain price for a dance, the price will go down.
Nobody here said that SC's were immune from market forces. If a club deals exclusively with blue collar customers, it will most likely have to capitulate with lowered prices (or change the place to appeal to ritzier customers). If a club deals more with a mixed market, as most SC's do, they can simply raise the prices on their upper crust customers, and if this prices some of their MOR customers out of the market, so be it. $30x2 and $20x$3 equal the same thing. If guys can't afford dances anymore, and decide to stick around and spend that money on drinks instead, that means more money going into the club's coffers.
One final observation..... One girl I'm friendly with makes a killing on $10 or 2 for $20 days. Sure, she works harder, but she makes at least as much in total as she does on regular days from individual dances.
Which means she's making the same amount of money for doing twice the amount of work. I'd like to hear how well this is working out from her perspective.
pinkpuff
11-10-2008, 01:54 AM
Looks none of us are wealthy.
Stop being whiny children. Nobody gives a shit you don't make $1000 a night.
NONE of us do. Well, I know spoiled children who do.
Honestly we dont give a shit if you work all night for $200. The fact that you dont comprehend most people take home less per night marks you as a whiny spoiled entitled child.
Fact is the world doesnt care!!!
Most of us work 8-12 hours non-stop for less money. We just dont give a fuck if your would have to increase your load from 2hrs to 4hrs to clear $500. It is so whiney on our reality scale we seriously do NOT care.
If you dont have what it takes then QUIT. DO IT NOW. GREAT!!!! Make room for the next person.
Stop being a whiney child. End of story.
So everyone who isnt working at mcdonalds should be happy getting paid 100 bucks for a full days work. give me a break. Plenty of people ARE rich and CAN afford strip clubs. If you are so bitter about being poor, find another freaking job. Its not hard to find a job where you get paid at least 15 an hour, especially at your age, and it seems like you think 15 an hour would make you a millionaire, so seriously. i dare you, quit your job at walmart and find a real job and stop whining. Those "most people" you are talking about are not strippers. And if i was doing their job i wouldnt be expecting to take home 200 a night either because im not putting up with stripper bullshit to make that money. Again, if you are working 12 hours for only 100 bucks then clearly you have no skills whatsoever and must be working for minimum wage. How about you go to freaking college or something? Obviously you are not a slave cuz you have a computer so you DO have a choice. And if you make so little and slave so hard, a strip club is the last place you should be going to. I suggest taking advantage of all the tax money we (same girls who are complaining) pay and go to the welfare office. at least then you dont have to work to be broke
I bet you think hookers shouldnt complain about 200 bucks for basically being raped. how about you get some random guy to butt fuck you for 200 bucks for a full hour and see if youre happy going home with 200 bucks.
pinkpuff
11-10-2008, 02:08 AM
One final observation..... One girl I'm friendly with makes a killing on $10 or 2 for $20 days. Sure, she works harder, but she makes at least as much in total as she does on regular days from individual dances. I think the girls would be hurt more by a drop in CR prices where they are locked in for a longer period of time at a lower price.
The same as she does on other days isnt a killing. She is simply working twice as hard for the same amount of money she makes on normal days....so I dont see your point.
bem401
11-10-2008, 06:43 AM
The same as she does on other days isnt a killing. She is simply working twice as hard for the same amount of money she makes on normal days....so I dont see your point.
She does as well or better on the $10 days. She doesn't have to be there on that particular day. She doesn't even have to adhere to the 3 shift per week minimum. I recently asked her why she was there on a Monday afternoon and she said it was easier to make money on that day and that she was not averse to having to work a bit more in return for a little more certainty of a profitable day.
bem401
11-10-2008, 06:50 AM
Well, you can see it that way if you want but the casinos don't. The VAST majority of the casino's revenue is derived from gambling not from room nights or meals.
Oh, absolutely, but the free rooms and meals get the gamblers in there and in there for longer periods of time. In a SC, the cheaper dances get the guys in buying the same overpriced drinks, which i am assuming is the clubs main source of revenue.
The difference is dancers just go to work at another club if the one they are at closes. When a club in Johnston RI closed a while back all of the dancers just showed up at the other clubs in the area the next week. None of them even lost a shift. As long as you are willing to take your clothes off, have an ID and the house fee you can always find a job as a dancer.
Also, dancers don't get laid off. Some get fired for disciplinary reasons but again, they just move to another club. Quiting dancing because you don't think the money is good enough is not the same as losing your job.
They are not laid off because they are not technically employees, but they cease showing up when it is no longer worth it to them to go in. But you are right, they make the call. The clubs will essentially let in any girl with a pulse and the house fee. If it cost the club anything to have the girls there, you can bet there'd be layoffs in slow times.