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ViolaStrings
11-05-2008, 08:17 PM
^ I agree totally. I think that's more than fair.

Honey71783
11-05-2008, 09:07 PM
^ Sounds good that way also. Whichever way, I was just stating that this country still has a debt to pay...

ViolaStrings
11-05-2008, 09:24 PM
^ I woudn't call it a debt. It's just the right thing to do.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-05-2008, 09:46 PM
^ I woudn't call it a debt. It's just the right thing to do.

ITS DEBT.....40 ACRES AND A MULE....THAT IS WHAT WE WERE PROMISED AND NEVER GIVEN...

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-05-2008, 09:49 PM
What about people who are of mixed heritage? A lot of people have black blood in them but don't really look black so how would these people be paid? Would they still receive the same amount or will it go by how much black you have in you? How would you go about saying who is black enough to get the money?

I don't think giving cash to black people is going to solve our problems. If the money went into reinvesting in black communities and culture and giving black businesses loans and grants that help them grow, that's a lot better than getting a check in the mail individually. I may have a few thousand bucks in my pocket but my community and my people as a whole will still be in the same place.


you know what thats called???? hmmm???? AFFIRMATIVE ACTION!!!! ...and THE WHITE PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT THAT TOO!!!! so if my family is not gonna get a deserved reparations check (because if i was promised money or land and died before it was given to me, i would want my family...no matter how far into the future...to recieve it....), then give me programs, grants and funding to further black students, black businesses, and black communites....i'm happy with either or....

ViolaStrings
11-05-2008, 10:08 PM
ITS DEBT.....40 ACRES AND A MULE....THAT IS WHAT WE WERE PROMISED AND NEVER GIVEN...

Pan Dah is right. The person who made that promise had no authority to make it. How does that change the argument now?

I still think no matter which way you cut it, checks should not be sent to individuals, but to communities in need.

xsomnambulist
11-05-2008, 10:09 PM
No. Another widely misunderstood myth.

General Sherman instituted a plan to distribute certain lands in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida to 40,000 former slaves who had no immediate means of survival after he took Charleston. It's somewhat questionable what authority he had to issue the order; in any case Pres. Johnson revoked the order. The government never promised anything to the overall former slave population, nor would they have a reason to.

I can see the argument against decedents this far down the line getting reparations, but how would there be NO reason for issuing reparations to those actually enslaved?

xsomnambulist
11-05-2008, 10:29 PM
Certainly there might be a feeling of moral obligation, but I meant there was no practical reason for the government to promise anything. Unlike the Indians who had loads of land we wanted and the means to defend it, the former slaves had nothing the US needed to induce such a promise.

The government had just spent shit-tons of money and over 350,000 lives to effect emancipation; the area of the country that had the most recent benefit from slavery was in ruins and needed to be repatriated into the country. Providing 4,000,000 ex-slaves with land wasn't too high on anyone's priority list.

That's just shameful.

xsomnambulist
11-05-2008, 10:35 PM
:shrug: Study much world history?

Yes, I do. What are you trying to get at, hmm?

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-05-2008, 10:45 PM
i thought it was every freed negro family....not a certain "40,000".... and it was promised to them...maybe not by the government (or i should say the president, because it was passed in congress).... but it was promised and then when it was not passed, it was not explained accurately to those who we awaiting thier reperations....

and fuck morals...if i work on something...i'm owed payment for my work...period. They black slaves never volunteered to slave away in plantations....just like the indians never volunteered to have thier land stolen... in my eyes, the GOVERNMENT owes us...

and anybody who argues there is not a such thing as white privilege and white power...is obviously in denial....

xsomnambulist
11-05-2008, 10:54 PM
Just pointing out the world has always been somewhat short of perfect.

I am well aware of this, and my comment was hardly out of surprise.

zippyelf
11-05-2008, 11:43 PM
This thread thoroughly pisses me off. How did something so positive and celebratory become so ugly?

We should be happy and we should feel unified and we shouldn't be spewing racism in a thread that was meant to revel in the victory AGAINST racism that we won yesterday.

Just STOP. Everyone just... stop.

Perry
11-06-2008, 12:20 AM
All of this about reperations got me thinking. What about the slavery still rampant in this country this year?

http://www.worldandihomeschool.com/public_articles/2001/february/wis21239.asp
For one account.

And let's not forget all the human trafficking and involentary prostitution that some of us see in our home clubs. We need to fix our current problems before we can fully repent for the past.

People are still discriminated against, not only by race, but sexual orientation, gender, age and religion. But I'm stopping now. ZE is right - we should be thrilled about the progress we've made. Every American is entitled to feel pride at Obama's accomplishment, and look forward to keeping up this momentum.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 12:24 AM
This thread thoroughly pisses me off. How did something so positive and celebratory become so ugly?

We should be happy and we should feel unified and we shouldn't be spewing racism in a thread that was meant to revel in the victory AGAINST racism that we won yesterday.

Just STOP. Everyone just... stop.

it just proves that anybody who takes the time to celebrate obama's victory is gonna be immediately met with hate, and ignorance....

just like people said "racism is going to be dead now because of a black president"....when in all reality...its really not

Melonie
11-06-2008, 03:54 AM
you might want to read my 'Obama and Post-Racial America' post which includes an interesting article by LA Times writer Shelby Steele (who is a 'black conservative'). Mr. Steele makes the point that, with Obama now having positively disproved that racial discrimination is still an effective force in supressing the progress of American blacks, it will be very difficult from here on out for American blacks to continue citing racial discrimination as the primary explanation in cases of poor performance.

(snip)"Steele believes that the use of victimization is the greatest hindrance for black Americans. In his view, white Americans see blacks as victims to ease their guilty conscience, while blacks attempt to turn their status as victims into a kind of currency with no purchasing power. Therefore, he claims, blacks must stop "buying into this zero-sum game" by adopting a "culture of excellence and achievement" without relying on "set-asides and entitlements"(snip)

from

Eric Stoner
11-06-2008, 08:51 AM
i thought it was every freed negro family....not a certain "40,000".... and it was promised to them...maybe not by the government (or i should say the president, because it was passed in congress).... but it was promised and then when it was not passed, it was not explained accurately to those who we awaiting thier reperations....

and fuck morals...if i work on something...i'm owed payment for my work...period. They black slaves never volunteered to slave away in plantations....just like the indians never volunteered to have thier land stolen... in my eyes, the GOVERNMENT owes us...

and anybody who argues there is not a such thing as white privilege and white power...is obviously in denial....

Nobody in my family EVER owned any slaves. My Great, Great, Great Grandfather fought for the Union in the Civil War. Reparations are all about looking backwards.
I thought Obama's victory was about the future. One big reason Obama won was because he separated himself from the politics of anger and racial grievance. Sharpton and Jackson never got close because they ran specifically as "black" candidates. Obama did not. He ran as something more and something better.
When his detractors had little else except a tenuous association with Ayers; that he sat through a few of Rev.Wright's silly ravings and that Farrakhan spoke well of him, Obama impressed me with his ability to take a punch with dignity and grace. So well, in fact, that it was those
hopping up and down with that stuff that made themselves look all the worse.

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 09:38 AM
i thought it was every freed negro family....not a certain "40,000".... and it was promised to them...maybe not by the government (or i should say the president, because it was passed in congress).... but it was promised and then when it was not passed, it was not explained accurately to those who we awaiting thier reperations....

and fuck morals...if i work on something...i'm owed payment for my work...period. They black slaves never volunteered to slave away in plantations....just like the indians never volunteered to have thier land stolen... in my eyes, the GOVERNMENT owes us...

and anybody who argues there is not a such thing as white privilege and white power...is obviously in denial....

Sorry. YOU personally are not owed anything.

I agree that the individuals or immediate families of slaves SHOULD HAVE been compensated, but that didn't happen, and it's just impractical and unjustified at this point. You can't apologize to individual victims by giving a whole race 140+ years later checks in the mail.

I'm of the firm opinion though, that the government is under obligation to provide excellent schooling, healthcare (yes, I said it), etc for everyone.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 11:20 AM
Sorry. YOU personally are not owed anything.

I agree that the individuals or immediate families of slaves SHOULD HAVE been compensated, but that didn't happen, and it's just impractical and unjustified at this point. You can't apologize to individual victims by giving a whole race 140+ years later checks in the mail.

I'm of the firm opinion though, that the government is under obligation to provide excellent schooling, healthcare (yes, I said it), etc for everyone.

my great grandmother feels differently, the grand daughter of a slave.... and feels that she is ashamed that she never got what he grandparents promised she would get...and that in turn she promised her grand children. "i might not have been able to afford college, but some day you or your children will"

and immediate family my ass. Its my blood, and unfortunetly, my family is still suffering because of slavery. WE HAD TO START FROM THE BOTTOM....no.... LOWER than the bottom....and until i see colleges and private schools NOT predominantly white... and jails and ghettos NOT predominantly black.... i will not believe that we have been compensated as a people.

and now i'm going to stop trying to help you understand how it is to be in the black community... south park said it best...if you don't understand by now...you will never understand....

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 12:27 PM
^ Five or six generations after slaves have no validity in blaming their current life situations on slavery. That has nothing to do with being black and successful/unsuccessful in America today. It's a personal thing at this point, a victim mentality, not reality. Obama was born into almost nothing, worked his ass off, and made something of himself. He's proof, but you have to try. The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

You can't link prisons being filled with mostly blacks to your family deserving reparations. My college is 50% black, and they're all studying their asses off like the rest of us to make it in life.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 12:47 PM
^ Five or six generations after slaves have no validity in blaming their current life situations on slavery. That has nothing to do with being black and successful/unsuccessful in America today. It's a personal thing at this point, a victim mentality, not reality. Obama was born into almost nothing, worked his ass off, and made something of himself. He's proof, but you have to try. The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

You can't link prisons being filled with mostly blacks to your family deserving reparations. My college is 50% black, and they're all studying their asses off like the rest of us to make it in life.

i never ever EVER used my race as an excuse to not succeed...or ever said it was right to do so...so if thats what you are getting at, you are sadly mistaken.

Eric Stoner
11-06-2008, 12:49 PM
^ Five or six generations after slaves have no validity in blaming their current life situations on slavery. That has nothing to do with being black and successful/unsuccessful in America today. It's a personal thing at this point, a victim mentality, not reality. Obama was born into almost nothing, worked his ass off, and made something of himself. He's proof, but you have to try. The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

You can't link prisons being filled with mostly blacks to your family deserving reparations. My college is 50% black, and they're all studying their asses off like the rest of us to make it in life.

Not to minimize ANYTHING about Obama; his life ; his accomplishments BUT he grew up mostly on Hawaii. He was sent to private schools. While his mother was a single parent; his mother's family helped raise him. He certainly made the most of his opportunities ( President of the Harvard Law Review ) but he had some that most people don't get.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 12:52 PM
Not to minimize ANYTHING about Obama; his life ; his accomplishments BUT he grew up mostly on Hawaii. He was sent to private schools. While his mother was a single parent; his mother's family helped raise him. He certainly made the most of his opportunities ( President of the Harvard Law Review ) but he had some that most people don't get.

this is one i have to agree with you on. Obama is not all black people. Obama is one exception to the majority. I'm an exception to the majority..... but you can't just look at exceptions and figure this is the case for all blacks...

Eric Stoner
11-06-2008, 12:57 PM
this is one i have to agree with you on. Obama is not all black people. Obama is one exception to the majority. I'm an exception to the majority..... but you can't just look at exceptions and figure this is the case for all blacks...

That's true but Obama also got opportunities that most white people don't get.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 01:23 PM
That's true but Obama also got opportunities that most white people don't get.

now your lying.... most white people don't get those opportunities...to attend college? maybe not harvard... but every college in the US (except for the handful of hbcus) are predominantly white.... and 99 percent of all private schools are also.

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 02:00 PM
^ that's in large part because whites are 74% of America and blacks are 13.4%. Doesn't that explain a lot?



And do you have any idea how hard it is to get into Harvard without legacy? That's an amazing feat no matter what background you come from, even private schooling.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 02:03 PM
^ that's in large part because whites are 74% of America and blacks are 13.4%. Doesn't that explain a lot?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnici ty

And do you have any idea how hard it is to get into Harvard without legacy? That's an amazing feat no matter what background you come from, even private schooling.


um.... wiki is a crppy source... and i'd bet money on it that those demographics are wrong...especially since fox news was screaming about how there are too many black babies...and whites need to have more children to keep the numbers up.... even fox news was panicking...lol!!!!

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 02:04 PM
^ it's based on the US consensus. It's true.

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 02:06 PM
See? 36 million, around 13%

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 02:07 PM
um.... wiki is a crppy source... and i'd bet money on it that those demographics are wrong...especially since fox news was screaming about how there are too many black babies...and whites need to have more children to keep the numbers up.... even fox news was panicking...lol!!!!

You think all white people agree with Fox News? They're morons. They might have been panicking over the current birth rate, not the population.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 02:08 PM
so that definitely says 66 percent...... and in that case...thats how our school demoraphics should look or close to it atleast..... but they don't look that way

and i'm glad they have realized that in the future....whites will be the minority

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 02:13 PM
^ 66% of what?

"Whites will be the minority"? You, young lady, are talking like a racist. What does it matter?

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 02:16 PM
If anything, 2 or 3 or maybe even 4 generations from now blacks and whites will have equal populations, which I think is a great thing. You definitely have a chip on your shoulder and think white people owe blacks just because and can't wait to see the downfall of white people.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 02:19 PM
^ 66% of what?

"Whites will be the minority"? You, young lady, are talking like a racist. What does it matter?

it matters because whites will have to realize, if they don't already know, one day, america will be equal and will be rich with diversity..... hopefully, i will see it in my lifetime;D

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 02:21 PM
If anything, 2 or 3 or maybe even 4 generations from now blacks and whites will have equal populations, which I think is a great thing. You definitely have a chip on your shoulder and think white people owe blacks just because and can't wait to see the downfall of white people.

who said there would be a downfall on white people? why does equality mean the downfall of white people???

and it definitely wont be more than generations.... fox news said.... BLACKS ARE HAVING TOO MANY BABIES AAAHHHHHH!!!!!! :O :O :-\ :O :O

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 02:23 PM
^ 66% of what?

"Whites will be the minority"? You, young lady, are talking like a racist. What does it matter?

Excuse me 68* percent... was white... (not including hispanics).... i never heard a latino consider themselves white...so i would not include them in that category....

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 02:24 PM
my school looks like the demographics....around 60 percent white, 20 percent black, and 20 percent other mixed nationalities. My school is extremely rich and culture and is definitely the reason i chose it.

thats how all schools should b....

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 02:56 PM
it matters because whites will have to realize, if they don't already know, one day, america will be equal and will be rich with diversity..... hopefully, i will see it in my lifetime;D

Who said we didn't want that anyways? Anyone who works hard is entitled to success. It's not like whites are magically handed money and nepotistic opportunities and OH NO someday that will stop if everyone is treated equally.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Who said we didn't want that anyways? Anyone who works hard is entitled to success. It's not like whites are magically handed money and nepotistic opportunities and OH NO someday that will stop if everyone is treated equally.

i never said you didn't...i said thats why it matters

and no, not magically...

there is a such thing as white power and white privilege.... but if you don't understand it by now...you never will, and i refuse to explain it on an online forum.... i'm pretty much done here

Honey71783
11-06-2008, 03:37 PM
There are many single parent homes in the African American community due to the effects of slavery. The entire family dynamic was ruined due to the selling off of mothers, father, daughters, and sons. That is something that the African American community is still feeling to this day. Alot of black children do not know the security of a household with a mon AND dad to depend on (emotionally and financially). This has had serious consequences on the mentality of black children. While your classmates, white children, were going on field trips, you were sent to study hall because your mother could not afford the cost of the field trip with one sole income supporting the family. I have seen it time and time again.

I think reparations (or some form of) should be brought up since we do have a black President in power now. I don't think it is anything to be looked upon negatively, its just part of this Country's history. It is an issue that needs to be addressed because it has been left unresolved for a very long time.

Why aren't the descendant of slaves being compensated for their work? We have all of these Fair Labor and Employment Acts now and they clearly state, when you work, you should get paid, when you work overtime, you should get paid, when you work on holidays, you should get paid. Companies have class action lawsuits filed against them for not paying their employees properly and the employees are eventually compensated. I've seen a co-worker of mine get compensated $5,000 for overtime he worked several years ago.

This country has set precedent by "making whole" other populations who have had a disparate impact. Why doesn't this Country want to "make whole" the families who built this wonderful nation? As you can see, it's not that long ago when people still owned slaves, my grandmother's grandfather was a slave. I've looked into the eyes of a dying women who thought that her race would be "made whole" in her lifetime.

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 04:21 PM
i never said you didn't...i said thats why it matters

and no, not magically...

there is a such thing as white power and white privilege.... but if you don't understand it by now...you never will, and i refuse to explain it on an online forum.... i'm pretty much done here

There is white power and white privilege, but the VAST MAJORITY of whites do not experience it. We're talking about the top 1-3% of whites, and we resent it just as much as you do. The rest of us are in the same boat as you.

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 04:38 PM
There is white power and white privilege, but the VAST MAJORITY of whites do not experience it. We're talking about the top 1-3% of whites, and we resent it just as much as you do. The rest of us are in the same boat as you.

no, the VAST MAJORITY do experience it whether they choose to acknoledge it or not.... you don't have to be in charge or rich to experience it.... like i said, its too much to explain on an online forum

ViolaStrings
11-06-2008, 04:44 PM
^ oh, ok. Now I'm convinced and totally sympathize. ::)

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 04:48 PM
^ oh, ok. Now I'm convinced and totally sympathize. ::)

lol, i smell the sarcasm.....::) ::) ::)

Honey71783
11-06-2008, 05:32 PM
Let's look past white and black because there were free black people who owned slaves. Just like there were white people who did not own any slaves. Families should just be made whole if they have been suffering because of this disparate impact.

LizardQueen
11-06-2008, 05:41 PM
On the subject of reparations, there is a 20-year-old kid that comes into my club every once in a while and drops 10,000 per club visit. He'll buy 5 dances and tip 2k. He lives on a nearby reservation and hires a taxi to take him 30+ miles to the club. Rumor has it he just bought himself a Lambo and that he receives some figure over 50,000 dollars a month for reparations pay.

IMO that's pretty insane. I would kind of assume if we're shelling out that kind of money for this kid (granted, white America completely culturally, economically, and spiritually raped his ancestors), I can understand why the black community is pissed about never seeing any kind of reparations.

Slavery was horrible. Much of the slavery that has occurred in history has at least been where master/slave were a similar race or culture. In many cases (like Greece), slaves were the lowest social class, still property, but they were entitled to having families. American slavery was among the cruelest especially on the larger plantations, where blacks weren't even seen as human, let alone deserving to be free.

Though racism is certainly not the issue it was even 50 years ago, it still exists and it's quite shallow to make light of it and pretend it's not there.

That being said, I like Miss Luscious's idea for an alternative to reparations.

ValerieGA
11-06-2008, 05:44 PM
I like him and hope he runs America in a good way, at least better than the last 8 years! I'm just really worried about crazies trying to assasinate him

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 05:56 PM
On the subject of reparations, there is a 20-year-old kid that comes into my club every once in a while and drops 10,000 per club visit. He'll buy 5 dances and tip 2k. He lives on a nearby reservation and hires a taxi to take him 30+ miles to the club. Rumor has it he just bought himself a Lambo and that he receives some figure over 50,000 dollars a month for reparations pay.

IMO that's pretty insane. I would kind of assume if we're shelling out that kind of money for this kid (granted, white America completely culturally, economically, and spiritually raped his ancestors), I can understand why the black community is pissed about never seeing any kind of reparations.

Slavery was horrible. Much of the slavery that has occurred in history has at least been where master/slave were a similar race or culture. In many cases (like Greece), slaves were the lowest social class, still property, but they were entitled to having families. American slavery was among the cruelest especially on the larger plantations, where blacks weren't even seen as human, let alone deserving to be free.

Though racism is certainly not the issue it was even 50 years ago, it still exists and it's quite shallow to make light of it and pretend it's not there.

That being said, I like Miss Luscious's idea for an alternative to reparations.

LMFAO....thats definitely what you said it was... A RUMOR!

but i agree with the alternative being affirmative action... and money into black businesses, black schools and black communities

LizardQueen
11-06-2008, 06:04 PM
^^^ Supposedly he and his family get a crapload of $$$ because of some casino thing. I'll see if I can look up the actual law/figures.

Honey71783
11-06-2008, 06:36 PM
The Seminole Indians in South Florida receive alot of money from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino, which is on their reservation land. They are not taxed on the earnings from the casino neither. If you have a baby from a Seminole Indian man than you will receive a stipend until the baby turns 18 (or it might be 21). I met a guy who was from the Seminole Indian tribe and he was breaking it all down to me. Him, his wife, and his kids will never have to work again.

It's a sick amount of money that they receive on a monthly basis. $50,000/month sounds about right, if I remember correctly...

Ms. Mia Roberts
11-06-2008, 07:04 PM
The Seminole Indians in South Florida receive alot of money from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino, which is on their reservation land. They are not taxed on the earnings from the casino neither. If you have a baby from a Seminole Indian man than you will receive a stipend until the baby turns 18 (or it might be 21). I met a guy who was from the Seminole Indian tribe and he was breaking it all down to me. Him, his wife, and his kids will never have to work again.

It's a sick amount of money that they receive on a monthly basis. $50,000/month sounds about right, if I remember correctly...

are you kidding me?????? that sounds unbelievable:O :O :O :O