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shadowfast
12-09-2008, 10:58 PM
obviously you are never going to understand where i am coming from. i am not a feminist...but rating women in decimals (or rating them, period) and calling them "baby" like youre a pimp, is not respectful. Do it all you want but dont you dare say in the same breathe that you are respectful towards women because clearly you are not. and seriously the decimal bullshit is so degrading (well she is an 8 and ALMOST a 9 but not quite she doesnd deserve a full 9 shes not good enough so lets give her an 8.83729287977637863)
And i dont know what strip clubs you go to but i have worked at ovr a dozen clubs and rarely hear anyone use the word "baby." it just makes you sound like a failed wannabe Casanova pimp daddy loser.

youre right, its not a big deal. What IS a big deal is you claiming you are sooooo respectful and sooo prince charming when you belittle and objectify women..

You and I are like oil and water pinkpuff, to me you are an uptight feminist-extremist, to you I am just another jerk strip-club-junkie who claims to be respectful. Hugs for you "baby" that's all I have. Peace :)

shadowfast
12-09-2008, 11:08 PM
BTW, I asked 9 dancers the last time I was at the club about the word "baby" being used so loosely at the club and 9 out of 9 tought of it being non-offensive on the club scene. Plus the majority thinks Monica Beluci is a 9.75 (theres no such thing as a 10.00)

CherryBomb954
12-09-2008, 11:37 PM
^^HEY!^^

Just GET OVER IT for pete's sake. None of this is helping him and the whole feminist, baby-calling, number rating debate is getting really old.

OP you know what you need to do, so DO IT. You have more than some good advice that has already been dished out.

pinkpuff
12-10-2008, 03:42 AM
BTW, I asked 9 dancers the last time I was at the club about the word "baby" being used so loosely at the club and 9 out of 9 tought of it being non-offensive on the club scene. Plus the majority thinks Monica Beluci is a 9.75 (theres no such thing as a 10.00)
right because a strip club is totally NOT a fantasy setting where women are gonna agree with whatever you say because its their job to make you happy. get real man. if you seriously are believing everything these girls tell you at the club then you truly are delusional.

i already said im not a feminist, you obviously can't read. My issue is with you emphasizing how much you soooo totally respect women yet you rate them in decimal points and call them baby.

shadowfast
12-10-2008, 07:27 AM
right because a strip club is totally NOT a fantasy setting where women are gonna agree with whatever you say because its their job to make you happy. get real man. if you seriously are believing everything these girls tell you at the club then you truly are delusional.

i already said im not a feminist, you obviously can't read. My issue is with you emphasizing how much you soooo totally respect women yet you rate them in decimal points and call them baby.

ZOMG!!! You totally went off the handle here, with the fantasy thing here. If i was you I would ask my doctor to switch my meds. Obviously you need to up th dose baby. Peace

grindonme
12-10-2008, 09:34 AM
You can be a feminist and still enjoy stripclubs. I am quite the feminist, and I frequent SC's regularly. Everybody is so quick to label groups of people. We are all quite different.

"Feminist stripper" is not really an oxy-moron. I have known quite a few dancers that called themselves feminists, and still liked men & loved to dance. They simply believed in equality for all. Again - stereotyping gone wrong.

I thought one of a feminist main complaints is that men treat women like sex objects so a feminist taking a job in which she will be viewed strictly as a sex object is an oxy-moron

Otoki
12-10-2008, 03:25 PM
wow you really rate women in .025 steps. wow.

I was amazed as well.

Otoki
12-10-2008, 03:29 PM
I thought one of a feminist main complaints is that men treat women like sex objects so a feminist taking a job in which she will be viewed strictly as a sex object is an oxy-moron
Wrong. That is one of the main complaints of many feminists of the 2nd wave. 3rd wave feminism has more emphasis on equality on issues of gender, sexuality, ethnicity/"race", and class(-ism), and is more sex-positive. 3rd wave views on sex very, but usually involve some variation of "do what makes you happy, stay safe, and don't harm others".

Feminism is a very large umbrella term which encompasses many ideas. It's like the term "conservative" or "liberal". There are many different opinions of what that term means to each person.

I'm a feminist stripper. So are most of my co-workers.

Otoki
12-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Oh, and shadowfast, since you're obviously calling pinkpuff "baby" because you know she doesn't like it, I suggest you stop. It makes you look like a huge douche. Just because someone is mean or irritating doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level.

bsteve
12-10-2008, 08:20 PM
BTW, I asked 9 dancers the last time I was at the club about the word "baby" being used so loosely at the club and 9 out of 9 tought of it being non-offensive on the club scene.


And I asked 9 dancers if they thought I was cute, and 9 out of 9 thought that I was. :D

I don't expect dancers to lie about everything, but in a fantasy world of SC, it makes sense for dancers to say the right things to get paid.

shadowfast
12-10-2008, 08:51 PM
Oh, and shadowfast, since you're obviously calling pinkpuff "baby" because you know she doesn't like it, I suggest you stop. It makes you look like a huge douche. Just because someone is mean or irritating doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level.
I am a man who recognizes his mistakes and calling pinkpuff "baby" to antagonize was wrong. Sorry pink, sorry everyone. :-X

lopaw
12-10-2008, 09:12 PM
I thought one of a feminist main complaints is that men treat women like sex objects so a feminist taking a job in which she will be viewed strictly as a sex object is an oxy-moron

It depends on how you define "feminism". The word itself has evolved into an ugly stereotype of man-hating, anti-porn, anti-sex radical lesbians. Feminism can mean that, but it can also mean simply wanting equality for all women, in the workplace, schools, etc. That is the kind of feminist I am. Equality and respect for all women (and men too).

The dancers that identify as feminist that I have met are just looking for that same equality & respect in their workplace, which is obviously damn hard to find in SC's. They also don't have the same sexual hangups that feminists had in the 1970's, so there are no issues about working in the sex industry. They are laughing all the way to the bank (well, at least before the economy tanked) by exploiting our desire for them. Kind of turning the tables in a way.


OK. That was Feminism 101. ;D

Otoki
12-13-2008, 12:21 AM
It depends on how you define "feminism". The word itself has evolved into an ugly stereotype of man-hating, anti-porn, anti-sex radical lesbians. Feminism can mean that, but it can also mean simply wanting equality for all women, in the workplace, schools, etc. That is the kind of feminist I am. Equality and respect for all women (and men too).

The dancers that identify as feminist that I have met are just looking for that same equality & respect in their workplace, which is obviously damn hard to find in SC's. They also don't have the same sexual hangups that feminists had in the 1970's, so there are no issues about working in the sex industry. They are laughing all the way to the bank (well, at least before the economy tanked) by exploiting our desire for them. Kind of turning the tables in a way.


OK. That was Feminism 101. ;D
And really, that anti-sex, man-hating stereotype of feminism was bandied about a lot by people who were uncomfortable with many of the ideals that feminism was pushing for (like equal pay for equal work, women having careers, etc).

grindonme
12-13-2008, 04:45 PM
It depends on how you define "feminism". The word itself has evolved into an ugly stereotype of man-hating, anti-porn, anti-sex radical lesbians. Feminism can mean that, but it can also mean simply wanting equality for all women, in the workplace, schools, etc. That is the kind of feminist I am. Equality and respect for all women (and men too).

The dancers that identify as feminist that I have met are just looking for that same equality & respect in their workplace, which is obviously damn hard to find in SC's. They also don't have the same sexual hangups that feminists had in the 1970's, so there are no issues about working in the sex industry. They are laughing all the way to the bank (well, at least before the economy tanked) by exploiting our desire for them. Kind of turning the tables in a way.


OK. That was Feminism 101. ;D

:O:O:OSo these feminist strippers are taking jobs where they know the object is to be viewed as a sex object but don't wanna be viewed that way, that makes no sense

doc-catfish
12-13-2008, 04:56 PM
A feminist is someone who essentially has a pertinent intellectual interest in women's issues. How they go about doing it is really undefined. Despite traditional connotations to the term, there are a number of feminists who take positions that defy tradition. Being supportive of sex work being one. Look up Camille Paglia sometime.

That being said, while a stripper can certainly be a feminist, I'd say for the overwhelming majority of strippers, the job is a means of putting food on the table, and not some political statement on behalf of their gender. For such women, wouldn't it be considerably detrimental to have this means of making money taken away in the name of women's rights?

pinkpuff
12-13-2008, 05:18 PM
:O:O:OSo these feminist strippers are taking jobs where they know the object is to be viewed as a sex object but don't wanna be viewed that way, that makes no sense
women are gonna be viewed as objects no matter what they do. strippers are simply smart enough to cash in on it. last time i checked, feminists are capable of being smart, and smart women cash in on their exploitation whereas stupid women simply put up with it and cry in private and get nothing out of it

grindonme
12-13-2008, 11:08 PM
women are gonna be viewed as objects no matter what they do. strippers are simply smart enough to cash in on it. last time i checked, feminists are capable of being smart, and smart women cash in on their exploitation whereas stupid women simply put up with it and cry in private and get nothing out of it

I'll never understand all this feminist stuff then, because people are coming in here talking about there being different kind of feminist but in the end are saying they all want the samething, to be respected and treated as equals and not just sex objects but then still taking jobs were they will have to act and be viewed just like that. You can't have feminist views and then go into the club and act in a way that goes against those views

lopaw
12-13-2008, 11:34 PM
I think if you keep the "respect" & "equality" part and drop the "sex object" part, it might make more sense. Today's feminist doesn't really care about the sex-object thing anymore, since they often use men as sex objects themselves if they want to. It's a two-way street. And the dancers don't care coz they are banking off of the sex-object idea. So it's really not applicable anymore.

Clear as mud now?
;)

grindonme
12-13-2008, 11:46 PM
I think if you keep the "respect" & "equality" part and drop the "sex object" part, it might make more sense. Today's feminist doesn't really care about the sex-object thing anymore, since they often use men as sex objects themselves if they want to. It's a two-way street. And the dancers don't care coz they are banking off of the sex-object idea. So it's really not applicable anymore.

Clear as mud now?
;)

Clear as mud on a windshield, can't see shii..........

bsteve
12-14-2008, 12:44 AM
I think if you keep the "respect" & "equality" part and drop the "sex object" part, it might make more sense. Today's feminist doesn't really care about the sex-object thing anymore, since they often use men as sex objects themselves if they want to. It's a two-way street. And the dancers don't care coz they are banking off of the sex-object idea. So it's really not applicable anymore.

Clear as mud now?
;)

Uh, this does not make sense. What do you mean "respect" and "equality"?

The last time I checked, the way that guys treat women in SC is not considered respectfully. Treating another person as a sex object is disrespectful. Learing at women is considered disrespectful. Paying women to grind on your lap is considered disrespectful. I'd say that strippers are paid to be treated disrespectfully.

And equality? Rest asured, that although I treat male and female co-workers at my line of work equally, I do not inside a strip club. I do not wish to get lap dances from male dancers. As a matter of fact, when it comes to oggling at dancers or at getting dances, I very strongly discriminate on the basis of gender.

I think that a new definition of feminism needs to be sought out.

Otoki
12-14-2008, 05:55 AM
A feminist is someone who essentially has a pertinent intellectual interest in women's issues. How they go about doing it is really undefined. Despite traditional connotations to the term, there are a number of feminists who take positions that defy tradition. Being supportive of sex work being one. Look up Camille Paglia sometime.

That being said, while a stripper can certainly be a feminist, I'd say for the overwhelming majority of strippers, the job is a means of putting food on the table, and not some political statement on behalf of their gender. For such women, wouldn't it be considerably detrimental to have this means of making money taken away in the name of women's rights?
Great post, although I'd also argue that many women don't see their job and feminism as mutually exclusive, or may actually find it empowering in many aspects that could be viewed as feminist (even if subconsciously so).

Otoki
12-14-2008, 06:00 AM
Uh, this does not make sense. What do you mean "respect" and "equality"?

The last time I checked, the way that guys treat women in SC is not considered respectfully. Treating another person as a sex object is disrespectful. Learing at women is considered disrespectful. Paying women to grind on your lap is considered disrespectful. I'd say that strippers are paid to be treated disrespectfully.

And equality? Rest asured, that although I treat male and female co-workers at my line of work equally, I do not inside a strip club. I do not wish to get lap dances from male dancers. As a matter of fact, when it comes to oggling at dancers or at getting dances, I very strongly discriminate on the basis of gender.

I think that a new definition of feminism needs to be sought out.
Stop being willfully obtuse.

By your standards, being a server or customer-service rep is anti-feminist because customers will be disrespectful to you some of the time.

Fenriswolf
12-14-2008, 06:00 AM
It's not really that hard. Individual people of all genders want to be treated in different ways, and respect is shown in willingness to treat them as they wish to be treated. Wishing not to be dealt with in a manner based soley upon your sex is feminist.

You are not treated as a sex object when stripping because you're a woman, you're treated as a sex object because you have chosen to sell yourself as a sex object. The word "chosen" being operative in this sentence. Obviously it's more complicated than that and the sex industry certainly has issues but stripping is not innately anti-feminist.

Though some rad fems would have you think otherwise.

grindonme
12-14-2008, 11:59 AM
Uh, this does not make sense. What do you mean "respect" and "equality"?

The last time I checked, the way that guys treat women in SC is not considered respectfully. Treating another person as a sex object is disrespectful. Learing at women is considered disrespectful. Paying women to grind on your lap is considered disrespectful. I'd say that strippers are paid to be treated disrespectfully.

And equality? Rest asured, that although I treat male and female co-workers at my line of work equally, I do not inside a strip club. I do not wish to get lap dances from male dancers. As a matter of fact, when it comes to oggling at dancers or at getting dances, I very strongly discriminate on the basis of gender.

I think that a new definition of feminism needs to be sought out.

Exactly what i'm saying, i keep reading ALL these definition of feminist responses and still don't understand how there could be such a thing as a feminist stripper. I even googled it and read some of the 100 different types on wiki but all i got from there was a headache

Jezzebelle
12-14-2008, 12:27 PM
Treating another person as a sex object is disrespectful. Learing at women is considered disrespectful. Paying women to grind on your lap is considered disrespectful.


Must be something wrong with me then because I consider the above a compliment.

pinkpuff
12-14-2008, 06:34 PM
I'll never understand all this feminist stuff then, because people are coming in here talking about there being different kind of feminist but in the end are saying they all want the samething, to be respected and treated as equals and not just sex objects but then still taking jobs were they will have to act and be viewed just like that. You can't have feminist views and then go into the club and act in a way that goes against those views

women are gonna be viewed as sex objects at ANY job they take on.. By stripping they at least are making a monitory profit out of their exploitation. basically if women were not exploited outside of a strip club, then one can argue that a feminist shouldn't work at a strip club because it is asking to be exploited, but in the world we live in women are exploited just walking down the street, so to profit off this exploitation is actually very intelligent and in a way taking the power back a little. And i dont act in any way that is anti feminist while at work. I am not flirty, i do not tell guys to "spank it" and i dont act like a raging slut. I am simply myself and act polite and friendly as i would anywhere else.


Paying women to grind on your lap is considered disrespectful.
No...expecting a women to perform acts like this for FREE is disrespectful. guys who go into night clubs expect women to not only grind on their cocks on the dance floor for free but to also go home and have sex with them for free. now THAT is disrespectful.


Rest asured, that although I treat male and female co-workers at my line of work equally,
that is you. that is not all men. when i worked as a bartender my bosses would encourage me to drink because they wanted to see me drunk and crazy. i remember one even slapped my ass to which i cursed him out on it and he apologized and had no clue that acting like that was uncalled for. when i walk down the street even wearing sweatpants and a sweater i get whistled at and homeless people ask me for my number.. that is also not respectful. so even though you are not the one doing the disrespecting, women get disrespected in all types of different scenarios on a daily basis, not just at strip clubs.

Fenriswolf
12-14-2008, 08:16 PM
See a lot of the men here seem to be coming from the position where women being sexual is innately degrading to women. It is not.

Some people are going to treat you in a patronising or sexist manner, whether you're a stripper or a mechanic. As a stripper you are choosing to sell a service, the fact that it's implication of sex doesn't make it degrading unless your customers are allowed to treat you that way.

Paying a woman for a lap dance is not disrespectful. Trying to force a dancer who's not interested to give you a lap dance, or a different type to what they're comfortable with, is disrespectful. Expecting that all women are going to want to give you a lap dance because they're women is disrespectful. See the difference there?

Oh and PP has said she's not a feminist and I'm glad, please don't use her as an example of one.

grindonme
12-14-2008, 08:22 PM
women are gonna be viewed as sex objects at ANY job they take on.. By stripping they at least are making a monitory profit out of their exploitation. basically if women were not exploited outside of a strip club, then one can argue that a feminist shouldn't work at a strip club because it is asking to be exploited, but in the world we live in women are exploited just walking down the street, so to profit off this exploitation is actually very intelligent and in a way taking the power back a little. And i dont act in any way that is anti feminist while at work. I am not flirty, i do not tell guys to "spank it" and i dont act like a raging slut. I am simply myself and act polite and friendly as i would anywhere else.


Do you act in a way as to be viewed as a sex object inside the stripclub? what about outside?

lopaw
12-14-2008, 08:51 PM
See a lot of the men here seem to be coming from the position where women being sexual is innately degrading to women. It is not.

Some people are going to treat you in a patronising or sexist manner, whether you're a stripper or a mechanic. As a stripper you are choosing to sell a service, the fact that it's implication of sex doesn't make it degrading unless your customers are allowed to treat you that way.

Paying a woman for a lap dance is not disrespectful. Trying to force a dancer who's not interested to give you a lap dance, or a different type to what they're comfortable with, is disrespectful. Expecting that all women are going to want to give you a lap dance because they're women is disrespectful. See the difference there?

Oh and PP has said she's not a feminist and I'm glad, please don't use her as an example of one.


You are explaining this alot better than I can! It seems so obviously simple for some of us to understand these concepts, probably because we are women and it is a part of our lives. But to some it just seems a paradox of conflicting ideals.

If some have trouble understanding a feminist stripper, then me being a feminist customer must really be a head scratcher. Probably best to not go there. :O:O

pinkpuff
12-15-2008, 03:11 AM
Do you act in a way as to be viewed as a sex object inside the stripclub? what about outside?

nope. the only thing sexual about me is that im barely dressed. and even that isnt really all that sexual in and of itself. im the least flirty most frigid stripper ever. i am the stripper that refuses to sit on guys laps for free. dont even imply that i am ever asking to be degraded. i definately am not asking to be whistled at when i walk down the street, yet it happens regardless of how much clothes im wearing and how unsexy an expression i have on my face.

grindonme
12-15-2008, 12:23 PM
nope. the only thing sexual about me is that im barely dressed. and even that isnt really all that sexual in and of itself. im the least flirty most frigid stripper ever. i am the stripper that refuses to sit on guys laps for free. dont even imply that i am ever asking to be degraded. i definately am not asking to be whistled at when i walk down the street, yet it happens regardless of how much clothes im wearing and how unsexy an expression i have on my face.

So how long have you been stripping? If you've doing it awhile i can understand but if you're a new stripper then why take a job and then not conform to that jobs requirements

charlie61
12-15-2008, 03:42 PM
QFT.

Also, IMO strip clubs are no place for a feminist, nor are websites about stripping (hint hint) Besides, isn't "feminist stripper" sort of any oxymoron....maybe?



Woooah. Girl, you gots some reading to do. Pick up Jane Sexes It Up:a book about third wave feminism (it addresses issues that are often considered anti-feminist). Read up on sex-radical feminism. Strippers definitely CAN be feminists.

Feminism is academically defined as the theory that men and women should be equal. Hell YES you can strip and be a feminist.

Read Whores and Other Feminists and Live Sex Acts while you're at it.

((end threadjack))

charlie61
12-15-2008, 04:05 PM
I'm sorry...I can't resist.

Quotation from Whores and Other Feminists by Jill Nagle:

"Objectification literally means to hold oneself as subject and everything and everyone else as object, the object one's actions and thoughts. According to this definition, traditional feminists objectify strippers. This paradox grows increasingly obvious considering the us/them construct such discussions inevitably employ. 'Those strippers undermine our ends.' Are not strippers and their patrons the objects of these women's disapproval?
-In other words, traditional feminists participate in that which they claim to most abhor.

Or maybe they mean 'object' as a thing devoid of humanity. But a stripper's humanity, including her sexuality, is intrinsic to her profession. In my experience, few men would talk to me at length and grow aroused by my personality while simultaneously denying my personhood.

I maintain that a man isn't denying a woman's humanity if he admires her breasts and not her intellect in the appropriate context. Human physicality takes precedence in many arenas. As long as these instances remain free of sexuality, no one complains. Few people aregue that Martina Navratilova and Mary Lou Retton, much less men such as Michael Jordan or Mikhail Baryshnikov are dehumanized when others admire their sexual prowess.

...

Keating's (an anti-pornographer) breed of legal moralism operates on the principle that pleasure is wrong and that we should experience it only accidentally in the pursuit of higher ends. So people should watch Monday night football only to foster a sense of community, childlren should eat candy only to strengthen their jaw muscles, and wine should remain bottled except when used to unclog the arteries. Though most contemporary U.S. citizens don't frown on entertainment or culinary pleasures, we still carry the stigmas and altenrately vilify or glamorize sexuality in general and female sexuality in particular."
-In other words, society is FILLED with activities that are only performed for pleasure. So why is it anti-feminist to engage in an activity (stripping) that pleases someone?

From Jane Sexes It Up by Merri Lisa Johnson

"Using femininity as an economic tool is a means of exposing its constructednss and reconfiguring its meanings."
-The job of a stripper is to literally put massive amounts of effort into 'looking' feminine: this blatantly shows how constructed society's view of femininity is. No woman naturally looks like a dolled up stripper, and everyone knows ths.

Furthermore, few people would argue that models or actresses can't be feminists, yet they are even more objectified than strippers. Why is it that society only objects when women's intentions become more obvious than an actress who is paid massive amounts of $$$ to take her top off on screen?

Fenriswolf
12-15-2008, 05:18 PM
You are explaining this alot better than I can! It seems so obviously simple for some of us to understand these concepts, probably because we are women and it is a part of our lives. But to some it just seems a paradox of conflicting ideals.
:) Thanks!


If some have trouble understanding a feminist stripper, then me being a feminist customer must really be a head scratcher. Probably best to not go there. :O:OLOL that too. I sometimes think the reason why I've gravitated to sex-positive feminism is simply because I enjoy "objectifying" women on occasion so have had to grapple with my strong feelings about equality (not just with regard to sex but also class, race, sexual orientation, transgenderism, weight and disabilities) and being both an exhibitionist and voyeur. :D

Oh and re: feminists who judge other women, it certainly is rife unfortunately. Sigh. There are feminists who are anti-sex work and while I disagree they can be coming from a good place. OTOH there are radical feminists who just sound like conservative fundamentalists to me, with a nice dollop of misandry and dehumanisation of any woman who dares own her sexuality to go with it. ::)

pinkpuff
12-15-2008, 05:47 PM
So how long have you been stripping? If you've doing it awhile i can understand but if you're a new stripper then why take a job and then not conform to that jobs requirements

um because im not some fat unattractive disgusting uneducated uninteresting vulgar looking stripper who needs to do the desperation hustle in order to get any dances. who says strippers need to be desperate ego boosters? yes a lot of girls act this way on the job but i dont and it works for me and keeps me from burning out. this job doesnt have any "requirements" other than you need to be able to stand and sit down. and the reason i took this job is again, i was tired of being harassed, objectified, and molested for only 10-25 bucks an hour. Again, as a women im gonna be mistreated at any job i take, so might as well take the job where being objectified actually pays me.

shadowfast
12-15-2008, 09:29 PM
WOW, talk about deviating from the original subject.

charlie61
12-16-2008, 12:17 AM
^^ Yeah, sorry man. I'm backing out, but I couldn't keep my mouth shut. :-(

Otoki
12-16-2008, 02:35 AM
It's not really that hard. Individual people of all genders want to be treated in different ways, and respect is shown in willingness to treat them as they wish to be treated. Wishing not to be dealt with in a manner based soley upon your sex is feminist.

You are not treated as a sex object when stripping because you're a woman, you're treated as a sex object because you have chosen to sell yourself as a sex object. The word "chosen" being operative in this sentence. Obviously it's more complicated than that and the sex industry certainly has issues but stripping is not innately anti-feminist.

Though some rad fems would have you think otherwise.
OOh, nice post.


See a lot of the men here seem to be coming from the position where women being sexual is innately degrading to women. It is not.

Some people are going to treat you in a patronising or sexist manner, whether you're a stripper or a mechanic. As a stripper you are choosing to sell a service, the fact that it's implication of sex doesn't make it degrading unless your customers are allowed to treat you that way.

Paying a woman for a lap dance is not disrespectful. Trying to force a dancer who's not interested to give you a lap dance, or a different type to what they're comfortable with, is disrespectful. Expecting that all women are going to want to give you a lap dance because they're women is disrespectful. See the difference there?

Oh and PP has said she's not a feminist and I'm glad, please don't use her as an example of one.
Another great post.

Otoki
12-16-2008, 02:39 AM
FWIW, I think the deviation has ended up being very informative and interesting. Yay.

shadowfast
12-16-2008, 10:05 AM
FWIW, I think the deviation has ended up being very informative and interesting. Yay.
True that }:D

totalroyalty
01-20-2009, 04:58 AM
Shadow, I too find it both hilarious and sad that you rate women by the quarter point. Half points I can see, but 8.75? I must emphasis that I find the rating system ridiculous to begin with, but my disgust with it also leaves me fascinated.

Please tell me what makes up a *~perfect 10*~ from your viewpoint.