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Lucifer911
01-04-2009, 09:33 AM
I've come up with some general perceptions of this occupation held by some members of the community. I also have my own response to each perception.

1) Stripping is degrading

How exactly is it degrading? it specifically calls itself 'adult entertainment do these people know what entertainment is?
does this also mean being an actor or actress must be degrading also?
What about when an actor plays the role of a serial killer? isn't that degrading because serial killers are the worst people in society so why try and act like them??? or how about when an actor is married yet he or she has a sex scene with another actor or actress who is already married to someone else? or how about working in a job within an unsafe environment (like a miner or in a polluted factory- isn't that degrading to your own body?

Most of these fools who think this don't even have an interesting job PERIOD.

2) Strippers have no self worth...
yep thats why they are in better physical shape than virtually all of the customers who walk through the doors. Likely they have a much better physique than people who say this too.

If someone had no self worth they would let their body image go completely..

3) Stripping is a slutty occupation
Obviously these people have never been to a club before. There is usually a strict no touch policy. Even stricter policies against prostitution and illegal acts within the premises exist too.

4) Stripping is a no brainer
It involves entertaining people... if you are truly smart you would work less hours for maximum cashflow. Once again these people probably wouldn't match the earnings of a good stripper.




Feel free to add comments?

MysteriousMisty
01-04-2009, 11:03 AM
Good post. There are a number of reasons why some find stripping degrading.

I believe some feel that its degrading because one shouldn't have to parade naked or semi nude in front of strangers in exchange for cash. But then, standing at the off ramp of a freeway or panhandling in the middle of an intersection is degrading too.

Its also viewed as degrading because so many guys are quick to think that just because a woman is proud of her body enough to show it off for strangers, that automatically makes her a sex addict or prostitute. The guys should feel degraded by having to pay for sex because if they had what it takes to find the right person, they wouldn't have to pay for it.

At the same time, swimsuit models are also in the minds of strange men so in a way, there's not much difference between modeling and stripping.

Those who find it that degrading don't know what entertainment is. And when it comes to women who are stupid enough to talk shit about strippers, those are the ones that need to experience financial difficulty and start dancing for a living so they can start learning what its really like. Besides, there is a huge difference between entertaining and prostitution. What makes it degrading is when some asshole that's been generous in the past suddenly refuses to continue being generous unless the dancer is willing to sleep with him. Especially if he says some shit like "If you'd sleep with me whenever I'm in town, you wouldn't have to worry about those things."

On self worth.....I feel that its both mental and physical. There are numerous girls who are completely out of shape and still get hired at clubs. On one hand it takes a lot of self confidence to wear a skimpy outfit and show off your body. Something many have no problem doing when they're in shape. I don't know what to say about those who do this when they're completely out of shape. At the same time, there's a lap out there for every ass.

Slutty occupation and a job that doesn't require some level of intelligence????? Only the ignorant would feel that way. Its clearly not all about looking hot and being scantily clad to fulfill the fantasy of men. Not every guy that walks into a strip club likes the brain dead girls. They're entertained by girls who know how to talk to men, girls who have a functional brain and can carry a conversation.

I also wanted to add that the women who talk the most shit about stripping really have the desire to dance themselves. They want to be scantily clad and have men give them money but they don't have the self confidence, skills (and in some cases they don't have the looks or physique) to try it.

kikidejavu
01-04-2009, 11:08 AM
ditto to everything above. people think its degrading because they wouldnt like doing it. they dont take into consideration that the things people like are different.

CherryBomb954
01-04-2009, 12:33 PM
I've come up with some general perceptions of this occupation held by some members of the community. I also have my own response to each perception.



2) Strippers have no self worth...
yep thats why they are in better physical shape than virtually all of the customers who walk through the doors. Likely they have a much better physique than people who say this too.

If someone had no self worth they would let their body image go completely..

3) Stripping is a slutty occupation
Obviously these people have never been to a club before. There is usually a strict no touch policy. Even stricter policies against prostitution and illegal acts within the premises exist too.

Feel free to add comments?

Cool post....I definitely agree with #1 and #4, but as far as #2 and #3 are concerned.....I feel I have to disagree. Now keep in mind my opinion is based on working in one town, at 3 different clubs. I don't know how things are around other parts of the country/world for that matter....but here....being a slob wins. Also, being a fucking slut wins.

I don't know if it's the economy, my town, or what.....but being in shape and not giving blow jobs has been getting me nowhere for some time. I get sold out for the most slovenly, disgusting classless girls, and also for the ones that do extras, but that goes without saying.

I can count on more than two hands the number of girls at my current club that look and conduct themselves with absolutely no self-worth. They are also the ones making all the $$ while a shit ton of pretty girls who actually give a shit sit in the corner.
As far as the laws against prostitution, that does not seem to be stopping any extras or the managers that allow, and encourage, them.

It's a sad state of affairs here in my town. I can only hope that #2 and #3 are stil true out there somewhere.......

veronicachick
01-04-2009, 12:53 PM
eh... I dunno about the no touching part... Here, girls allow alot of contact and there is several different kind of extras going on in the clubs.

Lucifer911
01-04-2009, 12:53 PM
Cool post....I definitely agree with #1 and #4, but as far as #2 and #3 are concerned.....I feel I have to disagree. Now keep in mind my opinion is based on working in one town, at 3 different clubs. I don't know how things are around other parts of the country/world for that matter....but here....being a slob wins. Also, being a fucking slut wins.

I don't know if it's the economy, my town, or what.....but being in shape and not giving blow jobs has been getting me nowhere for some time. I get sold out for the most slovenly, disgusting classless girls, and also for the ones that do extras, but that goes without saying.

I can count on more than two hands the number of girls at my current club that look and conduct themselves with absolutely no self-worth. They are also the ones making all the $$ while a shit ton of pretty girls who actually give a shit sit in the corner.
As far as the laws against prostitution, that does not seem to be stopping any extras or the managers that allow, and encourage, them.

It's a sad state of affairs here in my town. I can only hope that #2 and #3 are stil true out there somewhere.......

hey thanks for the input
I am not a frequent customer at any strip joint but when I have been to them I always went to the upmarket places where the strippers conducted themselves with professionalism and self worth.. so it appeared anyway. I'm sure the women here on this board know a lot more than me on this issue.

If I was the manager or owner of the premises you worked at I would promptly expel any girls offering illegal services because it damages the club reputation and the industry in a big way. Most decent managers would..

anyway this post was created to defend the industry and to expose the ignorance of people who condemn it.

missmays1983
01-04-2009, 04:04 PM
I get tottally enraged when I hear the comment "YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT"....that's one that I have personally heard myself and it really makes me wanna HULK THE FUCK OUT!!! It really makes no sense to me...most girls can't go to the quickie mart to buy a pack of smokes without getting hit or stared at and that's ok...but as soon as we figure out how to turn a profit on it all hell breaks loose...girls can go to clubs just to dance and have a girls nite out and some asshole is gonna try to buy you drinks you don't want or grab your ass etc etc etc and that's cool, but when we decide to put ourselves up on stage by our own adult decision, all the sudden we are whores...it's ok for a guy to meet a girl at a bar, pump her head full of shit just to try to get her to go home with him, and then he never calls. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
It's okay for women to be sexy and feminine and entertain as long as it's on men's terms...since when did I need permission to do whatever the fuck I wanna do, when I wanna do it....fuckers...

"YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT..." then I say "No, I'm better than YOU because I'm not a close-minded asshole that judges others for making decisions on what to do with their OWN lives...speaking of life...GO FUCKING GET ONE!".

LEIGH_LANDON
01-04-2009, 04:17 PM
Most of these fools who think this don't even have an interesting job PERIOD.

Feel free to add comments?

I think you took away some of the validity of your commentary/query by this statement.

Not necessary to throw mud back (mudsling) at those you feel think this way - to bring about your points.
I do understand what you are saying, and its defense mode that usually imparts a counter attack of sorts and I know you said SOME but that is still mudslinging regardless of the direction you are chucking that mud.

Anyway.

Most times its a lack of complete or clear information. No one gets a guidebook on everyone else's chosen profession in which to judge others fairly yenno?
Through the years my personal decision was to expalin some misconceptions where necessary (and where one was willing to hear such)
and to block out those that refuse to understand.

Ignorance is usually at the root of negativity, or prejudice or misunderstandings.

With that understanding for myself, I don't let it reach me.

Paris
01-04-2009, 05:05 PM
Because we have our roots in a puritanical society that views sex and sexuality as evil. Even today Americans are way more prudish than most of the rest of the world (Middle east excluded). We use words like dirty, naughty and bad to describe flirtatious behavior. Public figures are chastised for private sexual activities, even though those sexual activities may seem tame to most people (I'm thinking of Clinton and Monica).

doc-catfish
01-04-2009, 05:32 PM
OP...you must be new to the hobby because a great deal of your commentary in this thread shows a serious lack of understanding on the reality of how things operate. Even those "upmarket" places you visit with strict "no touch" rules have a shadowy underbelly once you peel the facade away. I'm sure every dancer on here has encountered a few things in herdancing career that she wishes she hadn't.

Stick around, and you'll find out for yourself.

pinkkitten
01-04-2009, 05:42 PM
i agree wih the op on points 1,2, and 4. as for 3, while i dont think its a slutty occupation, no touch policies that are eforced are rare around here. im also bothered by how a lot of people who defend stripping are so quick to say or imply that prostitution is degrading.

fluffypenguin
01-04-2009, 08:39 PM
It's ironic that these people are the same ones who do jobs they totally loathe because it is good money. They are the same ones who drive their boss about, do unpaid overtime and generally suck butt in the hope they get a pay rise or a promotion. The same people who go to the office social functions over being with their family for networking and improving career prospects. They are the same people who will get themselves up to their eyeballs in debt to wear designer clothes and drive expensive cars to impress people who are too shallow to be worth impressing. They are also the same people who will dump personal values, back stab, bitch, and undermine others so they look good.
A dancer or prostitute or anyone for that matter is only degrading themselves if they are doing something they totally dislike or changing their values for status or unessential possessions.

Pretty_Penny
01-04-2009, 09:46 PM
a lot of jobs can be degrading, as can stripping. it all depends on the individual and the circumstances.

Emiloo
01-05-2009, 10:47 AM
I think Paris hit it right on the nose. It comes down to our societal views, and unfortunately our society has taken on a very negative view of sex.

MarvelGirl
01-05-2009, 11:26 AM
Because to some people it is degrading.

Harlow
01-05-2009, 12:20 PM
Paris said it correctly. We are still being dictated to by the folks with the belt buckles on their hats and shoes i.e. Puritans. This is why it's okay to watch people being blown up on television,but GOD FORBID that we see a female nipple-we'll all be struck dead-ha ha. Also for a top industrialized country-the good ol' US of A has the highest numbers of unwanted pregnancies as well as STIs.

Both my mother and my sister got married when they got pregnant. I said to my mother "Why didn't you ask him(meaning her first hubby)to wear a condom?" She said "We didn't TALK about those things!" I said "Oh yeah! You didn't TALK about those things;you just DID them!" She also said "Your generation is perverted with its hand jobs and blowjobs and insisted that a penis wasn't for eating-ha ha. I guess she never found out what she was missing unless she led a secret sex life.

I feel part of the reason why people look down on strippers is that they cannot imagine themselves getting nekkid in front of an audience. While some may envy what we do;that's not always the case. And things aren't as black and white as Lucifer paints them. There are people in good shape that aren't strippers. There are people who aren't strippers who have interesting jobs that they enjoy.

It's very narrow minded to say or imply that the custies all go home to fat,ugly,boring women. Men come to clubs for various reasons not just because they have nothing good to look at home. Cheers, Harlow

zoe69
01-05-2009, 12:31 PM
Because we have our roots in a puritanical society that views sex and sexuality as evil. Even today Americans are way more prudish than most of the rest of the world (Middle east excluded). We use words like dirty, naughty and bad to describe flirtatious behavior. Public figures are chastised for private sexual activities, even though those sexual activities may seem tame to most people (I'm thinking of Clinton and Monica).

I so agree! I think religion has a lot to do with it. It corrupted society of any natural instinct. It created guilt and guilt is the root of all evil.
Just my two cents:P!

Postmodern Cinderella
01-05-2009, 01:53 PM
personally I think it would be more degrading to work at walmart.

I believe their employees are treated far worse than strippers

justifymylove
01-05-2009, 03:00 PM
I think a lot of people confuse the fact that people try to degrade dancers with dancing being inherently degrading. It is a form of projection- people often are taught that their feelings of sexuality are wrong and evil, and so when dancers awaken those very natural instincts their self-loathing turns into the desire to make dancers the dirty and degraded ones- not themselves.

Besides, people only ever hear about extreme examples in the industry. For example, I live in Toronto, and stories about trafficked women who are coerced into dancing make the news more often than the story of the girl who danced for four years, got an undergrad degree and then got a nice HR job without much fanfare. I mean, certainly there is a dark side to the business that deserves to be exposed and fixed but people do get a skewed impression. It is unfortunate that this often results in judgment rather than concern over these very real problems.

As for point 4, certainly dancing requires a set of skills and smarts that is difficult to quantify- sales acumen? people skills? seduction?- but are not necessarily gained from institutional learning. Because formal education is so highly valued, people tend to believe that if you don't need a degree for it then you must not need a brain for it. This is clearly a very narrow perception and my advice for dealing with these people is to giggle and "I shore don't know nuthin about that fancy book learnin' but I do know that I have significant investments and a piece of property and you're still living paycheque to paycheque!" :)

AkashaM
01-05-2009, 08:18 PM
The only thing that can make dancing degrading are the policies and rights violations implemented by clubs & management; ie house fees, crappy security, not paying out CR money etc.
Putting up with custy bullshit can be degrading if you let it get there.

However, the actual act of taking off my clothes and dancing around would only be degrading if I didnt have a choice. Nudity is freedom!

davka
01-05-2009, 11:35 PM
personally I think it would be more degrading to work at walmart.

I believe their employees are treated far worse than strippers

Yeah, but lots of people work there and hold it down and deserve respect- i.e. us not judging their job as degrading. I think working at WalMart is stigmatized and looked down upon, like most working class jobs.

Being a CEO of a company that fucks over the world, the environment, the community- that's degrading. They just won't know it until they are burning in hell. :)

davka
01-05-2009, 11:37 PM
Also, to play devil's advocate. I know a lot of women who got involved in sex work out of desperation and didn't feel they had easy choices. Stripping can be degrading like anything else, as Penny said.

I get just as uncomfortable when girls act like it's some dream job as I do when people bash it. Well not equally uncomfortable, but uncomfortable. All depends on the circumstance and person. It is complex, like everything else.

she sells sanctuary
01-06-2009, 07:59 AM
I think a lot of people confuse the fact that people try to degrade dancers with dancing being inherently degrading.

exactly.

besides, the most degrading guys usually don't even come into the clubs because they "don't have to pay for it". they meet girls in regular places, get more bang for their buck, and treat them far worse than the average paying customer in a stripclub.

seriously. i feel safer and more respected at work than i do just about anywhere else. except on those nights when every guy there is "different" and just wants to take me to dinner...that's pretty degrading.

dizzys
01-06-2009, 10:45 AM
Yeah, but lots of people work there and hold it down and deserve respect- i.e. us not judging their job as degrading. I think working at WalMart is stigmatized and looked down upon, like most working class jobs.

Being a CEO of a company that fucks over the world, the environment, the community- that's degrading. They just won't know it until they are burning in hell. :)

LOL..THATS FUNNY (the CEO thing)... But I totally agree with it all...!!

Nakita Kash
01-06-2009, 02:04 PM
Kinda OT, but I recently had a newspaper do a story about my agency and I met them at a SC to take pictures and do a little interview. The photog recognized me from one of my sometimes gigs at a popular nightclub where I do pole dancing shows- he takes pics there too. Anyway, I told him that I would be there that night and he showed up to take pics. I chatted w/ him and thanked him for coming when I had a chance between shows and he said "so why do you do this?". Before I could say anything he said "well, I guess it's a job and it helps pay the bills, huh?"....WHAT? He was putting down the job I do where I DON'T take my clothes off?????? WTF? I am more proud of my nightclub gigs that I am of my SC gigs where I have to be oggled by men wanting to sleep with me. At least in a nightclub they appreciate the art and more women oggle at my ability that anyone else in the club.

I just thought it was weird, lol.

CherryBomb954
01-06-2009, 03:10 PM
The only thing that can make dancing degrading are the policies and rights violations implemented by clubs & management; ie house fees, crappy security, not paying out CR money etc.
Putting up with custy bullshit can be degrading if you let it get there.

However, the actual act of taking off my clothes and dancing around would only be degrading if I didnt have a choice. Nudity is freedom!

Well, house fees I understand. I could never imagine clubs stopping house fees. BUT...now house fees that are OUTRAGEOUS and rob the girls of 60% of what they make, i.e., now that's when it crosses the degrading line. I've worked at a place like that before, where if you made $300 dollars you walked with $120. I spent my whole night to make the managers and owners richer and walk out of there with %40 of what I made. FUCK THAT. That is degrading.

I have also come to believe, especially after my experiences the last few months, that working at places with disrespectful, woman/stripper-hating management, bouncers that don't do shit, and DJ's that treat you like you are a no good piece of nothing.....is sort of degrading yourself, no matter how much money you may make there. There is no reason a girl should be grabbed by the back of the neck, or called a "cunt" by a manager (YES I saw both of those things happen at my last club)

I know not alot of clubs exist anymore with quality management and staff, but dam if given a choice, take the better club. No amount of money is worth management that puts their hands on you!

And yes, I agree, the being naked itself part is not degrading. The circumstances under which you do can be.

firemaiden04
01-06-2009, 08:24 PM
I think stripping is something you will never know anything about until you work at a strip club and have your own experiences. And unfortunately, you have to admit that there are a lot of strippers out there who are the perfect negative stereotype--supporting an asshole abusive boyfriend and a lot of kids, doing extras on the side, drug and/or alcohol abuse, general mental instability, and usually a very unhealthy idea that that's what all strippers are like.

My ex-best friend that started stripping at the same time I did was just like that. No boyfriend or kids, but she really and truly believed stripping was just this crazy, sinful dark world, and she got off on the drama and the depression and all of that. And you better believe she was very in your face about being a stripper, and everyone who ever met her knew in about 5 minutes that she took her clothes off for a living, that she loved the booze and drugs and playing with fire (extras in the back rooms), and that she was obviously nuts. And she fucked over everyone she knew, and lied, and stole, and cheated, and made a truly bad name for herself--and for me, because everyone assumed her experience was mine, too. And if someone knew both of us, and the topic of stripping came up, who do you think popped into their mind first--me or her? Her, of course. Because she drew more attention to it.

Now, not everyone is like that. And not everyone is hardcore judgemental, and those who say shit about strippers aren't bad people or stupid people or mean people. They just don't understand. And people are always afraid of what they don't understand--so they make it into something bad.

I also think most women have fantasized about stripping at some point, but never started, either because they didn't think they were hot enough, or because they had no clue how to go about getting into the industry. And men have such weird ideas about strippers that it probably turns into a sour grapes thing.

lilymiaomiao
01-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Because we have our roots in a puritanical society that views sex and sexuality as evil. Even today Americans are way more prudish than most of the rest of the world (Middle east excluded). We use words like dirty, naughty and bad to describe flirtatious behavior. Public figures are chastised for private sexual activities, even though those sexual activities may seem tame to most people (I'm thinking of Clinton and Monica).

agreed.

Because it involves nudity

Lucifer911
01-07-2009, 04:41 PM
agreed.

Because it involves nudity


Religion seems to hand in hand with politics in USA. This is why the industry if frowned upon because the conservatives have been in control for over 8 years. I remember the Clinton Monica situation... it created an
absolute firestorm in the media for a very long time. I can understand being a president and doing something like that would be outrageous but for what actually happened... nothing more than a BJ? it was making a mountain out of a non issue (well not non but a minor issue in his private life)

Remove the hypocrits, christian fundamentalists and the boring prudes... then this industry wouldn't be frowned upon as much.

doc-catfish
01-07-2009, 04:52 PM
Remove the hypocrits, christian fundamentalists and the boring prudes... then this industry wouldn't be frowned upon as much.
True, but it likely wouldn't be as profitable either.

NewMoon
01-08-2009, 11:24 AM
In some ways I feel degraded as a stripper because my body has a much higher market value than my education. That has more to do with society than my personal choices.

davka
01-08-2009, 02:42 PM
I agree, New Moon.

Kellydancer
01-08-2009, 03:43 PM
Well, house fees I understand. I could never imagine clubs stopping house fees. BUT...now house fees that are OUTRAGEOUS and rob the girls of 60% of what they make, i.e., now that's when it crosses the degrading line. I've worked at a place like that before, where if you made $300 dollars you walked with $120. I spent my whole night to make the managers and owners richer and walk out of there with %40 of what I made. FUCK THAT. That is degrading.

I have also come to believe, especially after my experiences the last few months, that working at places with disrespectful, woman/stripper-hating management, bouncers that don't do shit, and DJ's that treat you like you are a no good piece of nothing.....is sort of degrading yourself, no matter how much money you may make there. There is no reason a girl should be grabbed by the back of the neck, or called a "cunt" by a manager (YES I saw both of those things happen at my last club)

I know not alot of clubs exist anymore with quality management and staff, but dam if given a choice, take the better club. No amount of money is worth management that puts their hands on you!

And yes, I agree, the being naked itself part is not degrading. The circumstances under which you do can be.

Agreed. I always felt it was degrading when I made less than the manager though the dancers were the ones doing the work. I once overheard a manager tell one of his friends he was raising house so he could afford to get his house built sooner. This same manager once told me that he didn't care some of the dancers were walking away owing the club, he only cared about the money he was getting. That if he cared he would have gone into a "helping field". This was many years ago (club long gone) when clubs were many.


In some ways I feel degraded as a stripper because my body has a much higher market value than my education. That has more to do with society than my personal choices.

So true. Doesn't say much that women are judged more for beauty than smarts. Many women are both yet men often only care about the looks.

davka
01-08-2009, 04:41 PM
But it comes down most of all to what Lucifer said- a complete puritanical fear of sex, nudity, and desire. And pleasure.

CherryonTop
01-08-2009, 11:30 PM
So true. Doesn't say much that women are judged more for beauty than smarts. Many women are both yet men often only care about the looks.

heh, this reminds me of a comment I get all the time "but why would you do this job?? You're so gorgeous, you could do anything!"

::)

cos obviously, a woman's IQ is in direct proportion to her level of attractiveness..

Phil-W
01-25-2009, 09:20 AM
I think one of the reasons that stripping is seen as degrading is that none of the participants/onlookers have any reason to be completely objective and honest about it. To give a number of examples:

(a) A TV company or a newspaper doing a documentary/article on it knows that the "sleazy dancers with a coke habit" angle will get more viewers/readers than the "well balanced dancer paying her way through college" angle.

(b) Dancers would damage their earnings if they went about saying "actually, the main reason I do this is for the money, and I dislike a substantial minority of my customers". How often do you see newbie male posters getting up in arms on this site after they've read Hustle Hut and SG?

(c) If customers really thought "X is only dancing for me because I'm paying her for it", how often would they come in? Instead, I'm sure many adopt the mindset "X dances for money for other customers, but with me, she dances mainly because she enjoys it". That way many customers can justify to themselves coming in and spending significant $$$'s every week on a girl that would have no interest in them OTC.

So you have an industry where most people have an inbuilt reason not to be objective, but to perpetuate the stereotypes. And IMHO, if people were truly objective about dancing, (i.e. they discussed reality, not stereotypes), there would be far fewer customers, and hence far fewer dancers.

So, sad and unjustified thing that is is, I think the "degrading" tag will always be one that comes with the territory.

Phil.

carmen_b
01-25-2009, 10:54 AM
I have felt degraded in the same shift that I have felt fine about it.
I.E : When I was making cash to sit and chat with an older guy and then do dances for him, I felt fine. The exchange felt " fair " . When I was on stage and there were 7-8 thugs right by it not even tipping a dollar , it felt degrading. That's just one example of one night. I have had multiple jobs including fast food, waitressing, and my stint right after college working a "respectable straight job " where I felt degraded. I can't think of a single job I've done that wasn't degrading at one point or another. That's just work.

In response to Phil , the label of "degrading" is fine. If there weren't label and a muck of confusion about the dancing industry, there wouln't be any money at all in it ( which it's been said on the board may be the direction dancing is heading ) . For now, there is still some left, but once the yucky labels fall off, so will the oppurtunity to make money. If dancing becomes normal, it will pay normal.

threlayer
01-31-2009, 10:03 PM
Religion seems to hand in hand with politics in USA. This is why the industry if frowned upon because the conservatives have been in control for over 8 years. I remember the Clinton Monica situation... it created an absolute firestorm in the media for a very long time.

A lot of this makes sense to me. Except that a lot of that was congressional political opportunism and trying to appear 'honorable' to the folks back home.

I would add that many people still have a religious sense and so see it as sin. Well, somewhere it is written. This is one of the most religious countries in the world (40% see themselves as fairly-very religious), beside those that 'nationalize' religion. Further adding to this fear, people get upset about this maybe because they fear their daughters getting into it and the whole stripper-persona thing they have 'heard' about. Of course what they hear is from people who themselves are prejudiced know very little as well.

Prejudiced, as in pre - judging others.

So what are we going to do about that, other than waiting decades until they die off?

JayATee
01-31-2009, 11:02 PM
In America, nudity is looked upon as something that should only go on behind closed doors. Unlike in Europe where there are nude beaches and people don't see a problem with a woman sunbathing topless, in America you are viewed as a slut and worse if you are nude in a public setting. While nakedness is second nature in places in Europe, here people go nuts if they see naked men or women. It's taboo. Stripping automatically means prostitute in some people's minds. You have to remember that you are talking about a public who was up in arms over a parenting magazine that showed a side view of a mother breastfeeding her baby. Something 100% natural (and by some standards beautiful) and people screamed about how innapropriate it was because there was (OMG!!!!) a breast. There is nothing degrading about showing the human body in it's purest form. Not all strippers are worthy of the bad rap that the profession has gotten bc of some, but as long as there are close minded ppl out there who look down on or pitty the "poor" girls who "have" to be strippers this will always be the case. And until Americans stop having the same ideals as the puritans that founded the country, stripping will continue to be viewed as degrading. IMO there is nothing to do about it, and truthfully I'm not even sure I want it to change. People start seeing stripping as an ok thing to do and all of a sudden everyone will be trying to do it. It's the mystery and fantasy that bring people in to spend money. Take out one part of that equation and you lose the whole thing.

Lucifer911
02-01-2009, 05:50 AM
In America, nudity is looked upon as something that should only go on behind closed doors. Unlike in Europe where there are nude beaches and people don't see a problem with a woman sunbathing topless, in America you are viewed as a slut and worse if you are nude in a public setting. While nakedness is second nature in places in Europe, here people go nuts if they see naked men or women. It's taboo. Stripping automatically means prostitute in some people's minds. You have to remember that you are talking about a public who was up in arms over a parenting magazine that showed a side view of a mother breastfeeding her baby. Something 100% natural (and by some standards beautiful) and people screamed about how innapropriate it was because there was (OMG!!!!) a breast. There is nothing degrading about showing the human body in it's purest form. Not all strippers are worthy of the bad rap that the proffesion has gotten bc of some, but as long as there are close minded ppl out there who look down on or pitty the "poor" girls who "have" to be strippers this will always be the case. And until Americans stop having the same ideals as the puritans that founded the country, stripping will continue to be viewed as degrading. IMO there is nothing to do about it, and truthfully I'm not even sure I want it to change. People start seeing stripping as an ok thing to do and all of a sudden everyone will be trying to do it. It's the mystery and fantasy that bring people in to spend money. Take out one part of that equation and you lose the whole thing.

remember when Janet Jackson had a wardrobe malfunction at the superbowl? the tv network received so many complaints from hypocrits.. its a breast.. get over it! ironically this same network broadcasts replays of 9/11 and the Jerry Springer show which is much worse content than 0.587 seconds of a breast!

I was reading around this forum and someone said if this industry was considered normal instead of taboo it would be less profitable and would pay similar to a 'normal' job. So in a way I actually prefer the industry to remain controversial... its better that way :)

anyway heres that infamous video clip.. Janet looks so fine in it ;)

threlayer
02-01-2009, 11:31 AM
Re Jerry Springer...
Now that's a real oddity! I hate that show, even the show-offs (who are probably paid by the nipple peeps and seconds of fist fights). I think the audience (live) seems to see a lot of those breast peeps; that audience even likes it.

But, about that at home audience, I wonder if that is the same audience that complains about a fuzzy rapid glance at part of a (female) nipple. I suspect not. I talked to a person who didn't mind Janet Jackson's 'accident' personally a whit, but the thought of his early teen-age son seeing it really was very bothersome and angering. Some conservative people, mostly older, are embarrased about any kind os nudity or sex talk at all.

JayATee
02-10-2009, 03:05 PM
remember when Janet Jackson had a wardrobe malfunction at the superbowl? the tv network received so many complaints from hypocrits.. its a breast.. get over it! ironically this same network broadcasts replays of 9/11 and the Jerry Springer show which is much worse content than 0.587 seconds of a breast!

I was reading around this forum and someone said if this industry was considered normal instead of taboo it would be less profitable and would pay similar to a 'normal' job. So in a way I actually prefer the industry to remain controversial... its better that way :)

anyway heres that infamous video clip.. Janet looks so fine in it ;)
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgBkyyvo2w

It's the same with anything dealing with sex really. The further you get from "normal" the more afraid everyone becomes. That's why gay marriage is illegal. It's why the instant you tell someone what you're into sexually you're looked at as weird if it's different from what they're into. Since we're all considered sex industry workers it's not really surprising.

threlayer
02-12-2009, 07:30 AM
Because we have our roots in a puritanical society that views sex and sexuality as evil. Even today Americans are way more prudish than most of the rest of the world (Middle east excluded). We use words like dirty, naughty and bad to describe flirtatious behavior. Public figures are chastised for private sexual activities, even though those sexual activities may seem tame to most people (I'm thinking of Clinton and Monica).

Yeah! What Paris said. Plus they, in their ignorance, think you are whores.

USA is one of the most religious countries in the world, as measured by polls counting the number of people who say they regularly go to church, etc.

tripletranny
02-15-2009, 06:37 PM
I dont think its degrading. Its your body and you can do what you want with it. Stripping is a way of entertainment and a way to make money. I think its mostly a anti-religious thing so to speak.

Silky
02-15-2009, 09:31 PM
I believe feeling degraded is an emotion that can happen in a variety of jobs and circumstances....is in the eyes of the beholder ....and can be controlled at times. This is why I dont like when people use the fact that "women are degraded" as an argument against the industry as a whole. This view basically means its some inevitable circumstance that can not be complex, controlled, or based upon circumstance and unique situations.

In the strip industry in particular...i felt degraded when i put up with more bullshit because i really needed the cash.
I took control of the situation by making sure to work more hours so im not desperate for cash during a shift and in the vulnerable position to deal with any extra bullshit.
This is no different than an employee in retail who saves in order to avoid extra shifts with a manager from hell or something...

I also believe that its important for women to learn their comfort zones in order to combat feelings of "dirtyness" that are associated with being degraded in this industry at times for some. Sometimes we have to go beyond comfort zones in order to learn them and sometimes we dont.

I also want it to be seen more bad than good to keep profit! I used to try and enlighten more people... but now im quite selective as i am growing more secure as a person with myself and my choices.

To end this...i also believe the amount of respect that is involved between dancer and customer is important. When i am respected i do not feel degraded. I also make sure to respect as well in return.


Also on a different note, some ladies like to defend their argument on this subject by making sure they explain how they are different than prostitutes. I dont see it.

I believe they can control it as well.. and may not be automatically degraded if they are comfortable with their decision, in control.. and in the right mindset. Obviously, a drug addicted street walker is degraded... but what about the educated women who deals with men who respect her ? I believe that industry is a unique situation of its own just like the exotic dance industry.

It boils down to respect. Respect is important for any job.

As a whole i feel liberated and proud. It does take a skill and im proud to have it.

Sorry if this post is kinda jumbled..im sorta tired but really wanted to contribute to this tonight.

indie
03-02-2009, 08:48 PM
I'll keep it short and sweet.

When I told one of my girlfriends that I was going to strip, she said:

"A stripper takes off her clothes; she does not have to take off her dignity."

Hell. Yes.

VeraLynn
03-02-2009, 09:21 PM
I'll keep it short and sweet.

When I told one of my girlfriends that I was going to strip, she said:

"A stripper takes off her clothes; she does not have to take off her dignity."

Hell. Yes.

I think I'm going to steal this. Muahaha.

Otoki
03-03-2009, 05:08 AM
I got into an argument with my bf's sister about prostitution, and how she finds it (and, really, sex work in general) degrading. That was a year ago. We just had the same discussion again, but she'd changed her mind, A LOT. She basically realized a lot of the things the OP said, and just because she's not comfortable doing any type of sex work herself, it doesn't make the work degrading. She can now make the distinction between an occupation being degrading, and an occupation being degrading for HER, as an individual.

I wish more people could open their minds like that.

Otoki
03-03-2009, 05:09 AM
I'll keep it short and sweet.

When I told one of my girlfriends that I was going to strip, she said:

"A stripper takes off her clothes; she does not have to take off her dignity."

Hell. Yes.
That is full of Win.

LoveOn
06-29-2016, 12:53 AM
People hate all other people that can do something, that firsts doesn't able to. and I do not think that they are degrades. It's art!

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