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slinkybender
03-09-2009, 06:08 PM
I know a lot of girls feel like if there are dirty girls present in their clubs, that it makes it impossible for them to make $ because all the custies will only see the dirty girls and they will get pushed aside.

Well, at my most recent event (and my events are "no holds barred" in terms of dirty girls; in fact, most of you couldn't conceive of how "dirty" my events are) there were both clean and (very) dirty girls, and guess what? A lot of the clean girls made more money than the dirty girls did!

I know some of you guys are on this site. I won't "out" you, but it would be nice if some of you related your stories of my event and how you made (big) bank being a clean girl at a filthy event.

sorsi
03-09-2009, 06:50 PM
^^ I don't have particular stories from any one event per se, but I see it for myself on a near-daily basis, every time I come to work.

I honestly never even worry about who else does what or how 'dirty' a club is, b/c I've worked alongside countless filthy girls who would give all kinds of extras for ridiculously low prices for two years, and I have always made more than enough money for myself without any of that shit. By now, 'extras girls' have lost their power to psych me out.

You get exactly what you ask for in this business, so let others sell themselves short and do more for less $. I'm going to keep my expectations high and continue to do less for more $ instead. ;)

charlie61
03-09-2009, 07:18 PM
Confidence is key: if you come across as the kind of girl who doesn't have to do that shit to make good money, then the money will come. That's what's working for me, anyway.

MSNYC
03-09-2009, 07:20 PM
I'm a clean girl at a somewhat dirty club, and I am one of the top earners... Go figure!

Postmodern Cinderella
03-09-2009, 08:08 PM
I think this is a really great post and I really appreciate it.

I need to be reminded of this on occasion because I do let working with dirty girls get the best of me sometimes, and my attitude kills my money, not the customers.

Not every guy wants to go to a strip club and exchange bodily fluids.. :)

yoda57us
03-09-2009, 09:40 PM
Most of my money is spent on clean or fairly clean girls who work in dirty clubs. Honestly, the only complaint I ever hear about the dirty girls from the clean ones is that they wish the dirty girls would charge more for what they are doing.

I can remember years ago when a dirty dancer would negotiate the price of a hand job or a BJ. Nowadays most of them just do it as part of the price of a regular lap dance or VIP room.

I don't attend private parties but I don't think the situation is all that different in regular clubs. I go to clubs in Providence where it is pretty much no holds barred for the last few years since a loophole was discovered in the state's prostitution laws. There are plenty of dancers who are still making a good living without performing out-and-out sex acts.

slinkybender
03-09-2009, 11:58 PM
I do let working with dirty girls get the best of me sometimes, and my attitude kills my money, not the customers.

Customers like "customer service": and customer service is usually measured in quality, not quantity.

BarbieDancer88
03-10-2009, 12:21 AM
My club is totally clean, every house girl is against doing extra things.
anytime we get a new girl we pry to make sure their not doing anything, if so we run there ass's out.

slinkybender
03-10-2009, 02:00 AM
My club is totally clean, every house girl is against doing extra things.
anytime we get a new girl we pry to make sure their not doing anything, if so we run there ass's out.

Just to play Devil's advocate, that might actually be a bad business decision. Just as you ladies have this board, so do guys have forums where they talk about stripclubs. If a club gets labeled as totally clean, none of those guys will go there (I know you're thinking "great! that's exactly the way I want it!"). But if there's one or a few dirty girls, they end up being a draw of custies to the club, many of whom drag along friends who don't want extras. More total business for the club means more total business for the sum of the dancers who work there. And sort of the whole point of this thread is that it's a myth that clean girls can't make money in a "mixed" club. The truth is (and so far it's what I'm nearing from the girls who have posted in this thread) that clean girls can make money in a mixed club.

So, if you run girls and the custies who would follow them out of your club to keep it clean, there's a good chance that you are actually taking $ out of your pocket, rather than making more. And as someone who has managed more than a few clubs in my time, I'll say something that a lot of dancers ignore: there is a lot of pressure on club managers to make a certain amount of money. If you have a crew of girls who run dirty girls and their customers out of your club, there is no question the club makes less money. Now, you may say "who gives a shit about that?" My answer is: it's a lot easier to work for a manager who is under less pressure. You want a day off that you're not entitled to? If the club is doing great, it's "sure, no problem". Take the same club where it's not making the $ the owner thinks it should be and he's squeezing the manager? the answer turns into "you miss that shift and I'll fine your ass".

Eric Stoner
03-10-2009, 11:56 AM
Just to play Devil's advocate, that might actually be a bad business decision. Just as you ladies have this board, so do guys have forums where they talk about stripclubs. If a club gets labeled as totally clean, none of those guys will go there (I know you're thinking "great! that's exactly the way I want it!"). But if there's one or a few dirty girls, they end up being a draw of custies to the club, many of whom drag along friends who don't want extras. More total business for the club means more total business for the sum of the dancers who work there. And sort of the whole point of this thread is that it's a myth that clean girls can't make money in a "mixed" club. The truth is (and so far it's what I'm nearing from the girls who have posted in this thread) that clean girls can make money in a mixed club.

So, if you run girls and the custies who would follow them out of your club to keep it clean, there's a good chance that you are actually taking $ out of your pocket, rather than making more. And as someone who has managed more than a few clubs in my time, I'll say something that a lot of dancers ignore: there is a lot of pressure on club managers to make a certain amount of money. If you have a crew of girls who run dirty girls and their customers out of your club, there is no question the club makes less money. Now, you may say "who gives a shit about that?" My answer is: it's a lot easier to work for a manager who is under less pressure. You want a day off that you're not entitled to? If the club is doing great, it's "sure, no problem". Take the same club where it's not making the $ the owner thinks it should be and he's squeezing the manager? the answer turns into "you miss that shift and I'll fine your ass".

Yes, but with a big BUT. It depends what area of the U.S. we are talking about. The NYC Tri-State where there are lots of "dirty" clubs or an area like Va. where every club is a bore ? In Manhattan, clubs like Hustler and PEC certainly have extras available for the right price. Undoubtedly they draw customers that WANT extras but also a lot of guys who don't or at least aren't willing to pay for them.

Many moons ago I managed a club on weekends (when almost all the Bachelor Parties were scheduled) and there were NO EXTRAS on the premises. That was THEN. This is NOW and the strip club scene is much different now than back in the early 90's. Today smart managers and smart dancers form symbiotic relationships that are mutually beneficial. If a dancer draws and consistently makes money for the club; if she brings in dancer friends who get hired and work out, she will almost always get special consideration. Except of course for mentally constipated mgt. that doesn't have a clue about the skin biz and thinks the money just magically gets made night after night.

Eric Stoner
03-10-2009, 11:59 AM
I know a lot of girls feel like if there are dirty girls present in their clubs, that it makes it impossible for them to make $ because all the custies will only see the dirty girls and they will get pushed aside.

Well, at my most recent event (and my events are "no holds barred" in terms of dirty girls; in fact, most of you couldn't conceive of how "dirty" my events are) there were both clean and (very) dirty girls, and guess what? A lot of the clean girls made more money than the dirty girls did!

I know some of you guys are on this site. I won't "out" you, but it would be nice if some of you related your stories of my event and how you made (big) bank being a clean girl at a filthy event.

The "Lady in Red" was 100% "clean" and she certainly cleaned up. Started lap-dancing at 7 sharp and was still going strong with a waiting line when I left a little before Midnight.

Eric Stoner
03-10-2009, 12:03 PM
I think this is a really great post and I really appreciate it.

I need to be reminded of this on occasion because I do let working with dirty girls get the best of me sometimes, and my attitude kills my money, not the customers.

Not every guy wants to go to a strip club and exchange bodily fluids.. :)

In at least 97 % of all cases of extras there is NO exchange of bodily fluids. Release, yes. Exchange, no. Except for a few drugged out idiots or the suicidally careless.

SPLUT
03-10-2009, 12:52 PM
I went to the club last night. A "dirty" girl got a couple of bucks for her stage and three dances. My favorite, who is a "clean" girl received a $20 stage tip and five dances. While I don't mind the dirty dancers, they aren't the reason I'm at the club.

MSNYC
03-10-2009, 02:03 PM
Quote from a girl at my club:

"You don't have to turn any tricks because you're the only Pakistani. All of us have to, like, flash our Fallopia."

The quote had me in hysterics, but I think her point was occupying a unique space counts for something and allows you to get away with 'less' (the quotes around 'less' are intentional - I still work hard!!!)

pixierocksonthepole
03-10-2009, 02:09 PM
When I worked in clubs where dirty girls danced and pulled the dirty things I stayed cleaned and walked out with more money and my self respect. Knowing that I purely just dance and do fine was enough for me.

SpeakngEZ
03-10-2009, 02:35 PM
I actually had a very recent customer--who became a rather obsessive regular for a bit--who fell head over heels from me one night because I respected myself enough not to give him a BJ. He spent $2,000 on me that night and a couple hundred each time he came back after that, not including several rounds of gifts. Most of the time we spent in VIP was chatting.

No, I'm serious. In my manager's eyes, I was a Goddess. And all the girls were spying on me in the manager's office through the security monitors.

cadencetyme
03-10-2009, 03:26 PM
At my home club it would be considered dirty. I am one of the few "clean" dancers ie: no sex or sex acts.

I make money. Not as much as the somes extras girls, and more than some extras girls.

Sometimes extras girls dont always need to do the extras to make the $ is what i have found, im not sure why some of them feel the need in some situations.

WiseGuy_TX
03-10-2009, 04:46 PM
If you have a crew of girls who run dirty girls and their customers out of your club, there is no question the club makes less money....i assume you mean this applies to certain cities in recent times because it does not fit the model for certain cities in previous years/decades & economic periods.

SpeakngEZ
03-10-2009, 05:09 PM
Also, the customers that come in looking for extras are often very cheap--that is, they DON'T bring the club that much money. And they're often grabby with girls that don't give extras.

I work in a club that runs out extras girls and the club is doing fine without them. And the girls are doing just fine, too.

slinkybender
03-10-2009, 06:01 PM
Quote from a girl at my club:

"You don't have to turn any tricks because you're the only Pakistani. All of us have to, like, flash our Fallopia."

The quote had me in hysterics, but I think her point was occupying a unique space counts for something and allows you to get away with 'less' (the quotes around 'less' are intentional - I still work hard!!!)

This is absolutely true. I'll give another example: I have a friends who is a professional "hard sub" (i.e. she will take extreme corporal punishment) AND will have sex with her clients. Now, as big as NYC is, to my knowledge she is the only publicly advertised person who will do both. As a result, a couple of years ago I sat her down and explained to her why she should raise her rates. her response was: "I'm 37 years old and all the girls I see on Eros look much better than I do and charge less".

My response to her was that if she were offering the exact same service as they were, then she would be correct. But since she is the ONLY one of her kind in her market, she doesn't need to compete with those girls on pricing, she needs to test the market to see what it will bear. The funny thing is now she has two separate pricing structures, one for the area where she is totally unique, and another for where she is in competition with other girls.

PS to MSNYC: if you want to see how being the only Pakistani at a private underground event goes, you are more than welcome to try on April 15th.

slinkybender
03-10-2009, 06:03 PM
At my home club it would be considered dirty. I am one of the few "clean" dancers ie: no sex or sex acts.

I make money. Not as much as the somes extras girls, and more than some extras girls.

Sometimes extras girls dont always need to do the extras to make the $ is what i have found, im not sure why some of them feel the need in some situations.

In the whole sex work business, an awful lot of any particular worker's actions reflect more on their self image than on economic realities. You may see that these girls don't need to do what they do, but it doesn't mean they see themselves that way.

slinkybender
03-10-2009, 06:09 PM
...i assume you mean this applies to certain cities in recent times because it does not fit the model for certain cities in previous years/decades & economic periods.

Firstly, I'm not sure why people here and now would be basing their current economic decisions based on what happened a long time ago in a galaxy far away, I think and awful lot of people would be surprised to know what has actually gone on in paces and times where they thought they weren't.

Just ask Chris Rock about the Champagne room.

And as certain other posters here might tell you, just about every club anyone has ever thought was totally clean, there was something going on somewhere between the insider crowd.

slinkybender
03-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Also, the customers that come in looking for extras are often very cheap--that is, they DON'T bring the club that much money. And they're often grabby with girls that don't give extras.

I work in a club that runs out extras girls and the club is doing fine without them. And the girls are doing just fine, too.

See, it's hard to prove a negative: you don't know what the club could be doing if it's policies were different. And while I agree with you that these days many of the customers who come in looking for extras are cheap, they are also the guys who sit on internet boards all day long posting about which clubs are good and which one's aren't.

While my site isn't anywhere near as big as this one, it still has 70,000 members. And almost universally, it's the lurkers who are the good customers and the more prolific posters are the cheapskates. But they are the one's who do the talking and i think have a little more influence than you realize, or perhaps want them to. Take as an example what was posted earlier in this thread by Eric Stoner of MY EVENT (all caps simply to let you know I'm not talking about "what some guy told me", I'm talking about MY "CLUB"):



The "Lady in Red" was 100% "clean" and she certainly cleaned up. Started lap-dancing at 7 sharp and was still going strong with a waiting line when I left a little before Midnight.

Here you have a clean girl, who is working in... I don't even know how to describe it to you guys because you just wouldn't believe me..... (I had 6 transsexuals gangbanging a girl on stage).... and she made more money than she makes anywhere else. Now, the reason she does is because my events attract such a wide base of pervs, that there are guys who would never consider going to thje clean clubs she would work at, because they won't go to clean clubs, but meanwhile she made a fortune off these same guys being clean.

What I'm trying to get across is that your club may be 'doing fine", but it's impossible to know what could be different if things happned there which have never happened before (that's not to say that things would be gaurantted to be better, either. It's just that you can't know what it would be like the other way because it's never been the other way.

Now, for girls who only want to work at clean only clubs for "moral grounds", that is certainly their absolute incontrovertable right. But personally, I think that sex workers who aren't in it for the money deluding themselves about what they do. And yes, i think tht even clean strippers are "sex workers" (as does about 99.9% of the world's population). Now, don't go yelling at me that I'm saying all dancers are hookers, BECAUSE I'M NOT SAYING THAT. What I am saying is that I think most girls would do better if they spent more time worrying about how to maximze their income while staying within whatever pesonal boundaries they have set for themselves, than spending the amount of energy too many do worrying about what other girls are doing at their club.

slinkybender
03-10-2009, 06:31 PM
And all the girls were spying on me in the manager's office through the security monitors.

(Taking off on the last sentence in my previous post) Of course, because they all "knew" that if you were making that much money you "must be" blowing the manager, rather than thinking about what they could be doing to make the same money you are.

WiseGuy_TX
03-10-2009, 07:02 PM
Firstly, I'm not sure why people here and now would be basing their current economic decisions based on what happened a long time ago in a galaxy far away, I think and awful lot of people would be surprised to know what has actually gone on in paces and times where they thought they weren't.

Just ask Chris Rock about the Champagne room.

And as certain other posters here might tell you, just about every club anyone has ever thought was totally clean, there was something going on somewhere between the insider crowd....I'm not sure why they would either but back on topic, such a generalization isn't supported by history and those of us who traveled those galaxies.

Wolverine
03-10-2009, 07:22 PM
Sometimes extras girls dont always need to do the extras to make the $ is what i have found, im not sure why some of them feel the need in some situations.

Laziness.

Perry
03-10-2009, 09:07 PM
Of course a clean dancer can make money in a dirty club. I could also make money panhandling in the subway, but that doesn't mean I want to.

Seriously, this let-the-extras-happen attitude is dangerous. Dirty clubs get raided and the clean girls are in just as much trouble as the dirty girls.

Eric Stoner
03-11-2009, 07:51 AM
When you think about it, if we are talking about a regular strip club, it is NOT necessarily a good idea to tolerate "dirty dancing". It DEPENDS. WHERE are we talking about ? San Fran; SoFla; NYC and other areas where L.E. is usually tolerant and lax about certain matters ? Houston and Memphis where it USED to be "anything goes" and NOW they are cracking down ? Maricopa County, Arizona where the local sheriff is certified Nazi ?

Cheetah in Hallandale just got busted. If it's a good, solid money-making club in an area where L.E. is a pain in the ass then it's perfectly understandable why "clean " dancers would want to and would in fact try to keep a lid on things. They would discourage "extracurriculars" because A. They don't want their club getting busted. B. They don't want to get swept up and busted on "suspicion" . It wouldn't necessarily be shortsighted or even out of jealousy over the "dirty" girls making more. Because in many cases they don't.

What I have NEVER understood was the far greater tolerance for drugs in many clubs as opposed to extras. Nothing gets L.E. more hot and bothered than drugs. Nothing gives them greater incentive and a better excuse to "investigate" and to shut down a club. I have had more than one dancer tell me that drugs are tolerated, especially on the customer end, because it is thought that "high" customers spend more. Well "DUH" ! I'm sure there is a lot of evidence to support that just as there's evidence that the "hope" of extras being available draws in custies to which I say: "So what ?" Is it worth the risk ? Why use the Scores business model anyway ?

Eric Stoner
03-11-2009, 07:55 AM
Slinky - keep something else in mind. Even at your parties, the clean girls were working in a clean area. They weren't doing their thing while the guy on the next couch had his pants down at his ankles with a gal on her knees in front of him. I don't think that some of them would have felt comfortable just doing laps in a few other areas of the party space.

pinkkitten
03-11-2009, 04:23 PM
What I have NEVER understood was the far greater tolerance for drugs in many clubs as opposed to extras. Nothing gets L.E. more hot and bothered than drugs. Nothing gives them greater incentive and a better excuse to "investigate" and to shut down a club. I have had more than one dancer tell me that drugs are tolerated, especially on the customer end, because it is thought that "high" customers spend more. Well "DUH" ! I'm sure there is a lot of evidence to support that just as there's evidence that the "hope" of extras being available draws in custies to which I say: "So what ?" Is it worth the risk ? Why use the Scores business model anyway ?

i have never understood this myself. i cant believe that the club allows the girls to be openly doing drugs in front of the building yet the same girls turn around and throw a fit if a different girl allows too much touching. especially considering that when the club has had police drop by in the past it was for drug and/or alcohol related investigations.

Torrential_Downpours
03-11-2009, 06:08 PM
Just to play Devil's advocate, that might actually be a bad business decision. Just as you ladies have this board, so do guys have forums where they talk about stripclubs. If a club gets labeled as totally clean, none of those guys will go there (I know you're thinking "great! that's exactly the way I want it!"). But if there's one or a few dirty girls, they end up being a draw of custies to the club, many of whom drag along friends who don't want extras. More total business for the club means more total business for the sum of the dancers who work there. And sort of the whole point of this thread is that it's a myth that clean girls can't make money in a "mixed" club. The truth is (and so far it's what I'm nearing from the girls who have posted in this thread) that clean girls can make money in a mixed club.

So, if you run girls and the custies who would follow them out of your club to keep it clean, there's a good chance that you are actually taking $ out of your pocket, rather than making more. And as someone who has managed more than a few clubs in my time, I'll say something that a lot of dancers ignore: there is a lot of pressure on club managers to make a certain amount of money. If you have a crew of girls who run dirty girls and their customers out of your club, there is no question the club makes less money. Now, you may say "who gives a shit about that?" My answer is: it's a lot easier to work for a manager who is under less pressure. You want a day off that you're not entitled to? If the club is doing great, it's "sure, no problem". Take the same club where it's not making the $ the owner thinks it should be and he's squeezing the manager? the answer turns into "you miss that shift and I'll fine your ass".

I get what you are saying, but...

I've been working for the same club for about 3 years, (now as the door girl). We are known to a lot of the dancers and customers in this area as a "clean club" We have and enforce a strict no extras rule.

Yes, money can be a tight on the dayshift at our club when times are tough, since all we are offering is dancing, but a lot of the girls pretty much decided that they'd rather work here than at the dirty club across the street. As a customer once put it to me, "This is the place you bring your girlfriend or wife. I go across the street alone."

But that doesn't go without saying we have our few goregous, money making girls that they let get slip through the cracks... It seems dumb to me because most of the time it's the girls that are the prettiest on the shift doing extras! And the girl will only get paid the minimum amount for the room (because we set the price and the waitress takes the money at the beginning, and if they get caught doing extras they'll take the dancers money).

And usually they get sent home for the day, but the decision to fire is always up to the GM. And his only comment was: "Well, does she make the club money?"

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 11:09 AM
I think this is a really great post and I really appreciate it.

I need to be reminded of this on occasion because I do let working with dirty girls get the best of me sometimes, and my attitude kills my money, not the customers.

Not every guy wants to go to a strip club and exchange bodily fluids.. :)

No, they don't and I've been saying that for ages.

BTW, I am glad to see this making it through in one piece and not getting shot down right out of hand.

Slinky knows an awful lot about certain parts of this business. If you have seen me posting about the private parties in NYC that I do the floor management and security at; Slinky is the promoter who puts those parties together. He's been throwing parties in NYC for ages.

BTW, he is also www.webcamhosting.com who does the booking for the cam site www.naked.com which some of the Ladies here work at and have commented positively on.

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 11:16 AM
My club is totally clean, every house girl is against doing extra things.
anytime we get a new girl we pry to make sure their not doing anything, if so we run there ass's out.


I promise you one thing. That if I checked into your club I'd find at least one of the "clean" girls doing something someone would define as dirty. Either to get what they think is an inside edge on the other dancers, or pick up cash short term to make a bill that's coming due when the bank account is empty. Something.

I've found only one absolute in this business. That there are no absolutes. Nothing is "totally clean" or totally dirty, or totally anything else.

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 11:43 AM
And as certain other posters here might tell you, just about every club anyone has ever thought was totally clean, there was something going on somewhere between the insider crowd.

I've pointed this and other similar, literal, facts out about the industry here with mixed results. Even pointed out, since I started working the parties with you, that what I was saying based on 30 years of old SC club staff experience and personal "custie" experience has been fully corroborated now from the management side.

You might fare better than I but I hope you have your fire retardant boxers on. :)

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 11:59 AM
What I'm trying to get across is that your club may be 'doing fine", but it's impossible to know what could be different if things happned there which have never happened before (that's not to say that things would be gaurantted to be better, either. It's just that you can't know what it would be like the other way because it's never been the other way.

I've tried to explain when talking about this very subject in the past that anything that puts butts in chairs in the clubs isn't a bad thing for anyone who works there.

Even if guys are coming in to get extras they are always going to spend money on clean girls. There are a lot of reasons for that. They could just be testing the waters to find out who the dirty girls are. Now that is a pain in the ass for the clean girls, but its still money someone spent on them and if they handle it right it can be a lot of money spent on them and they never have to get "dirty" to get it.

More often than not though its that strange thing about guys that they don't want "dirty" all the time. Some women seem to think that a perv is a perv is a perv. Most guys have a little perv in them and the rest of the time they are just "regular" guys. A better understanding of the male animal would make that relatively clear. The vast majority of the guys who attend these truly hard parties we throw go to their 9-5's where they are the successful business types and home to the families they love and who love them back.

So it isn't about dirty or clean in the end. Its about game and no game.

If you have game you can make money in any environment. You may have to adapt your sales pitch, but not your product if you don't want to.

All one has to do is see the ladies who only do clean LDs at our parties, where the other ladies present our doing extras left and right, to know they can not only coexist but do so in a way where each sets up the other to make more $$$.

Anyway, like I said I have tried to make this point before.

I'm more than happy to let you take a shot at it. :)

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 12:17 PM
Of course a clean dancer can make money in a dirty club. I could also make money panhandling in the subway, but that doesn't mean I want to.

Seriously, this let-the-extras-happen attitude is dangerous. Dirty clubs get raided and the clean girls are in just as much trouble as the dirty girls.

As a retired police detective/supervisor of 25 years experience I'll tell you your statement is only partially true. You can't get into direct, long term, trouble if you aren't breaking the law yourself. That doesn't mean being the "clean girl" caught up in a raid isn't a huge pain in the ass.

The argument against 'extras" that has to do with working environment or the state closing places is the only, as far as I can see, legit argument against extras. Trying to say they cause clean girls to make less money simply isn't true.

The answer to the work environment issue is that eventually this all has to shake out and brothels will become brothels, perhaps with a stripping component, and SCs will become SCs again. While I have to presume that is coming at some point for now this hybrid environment is what you have to deal with. The choice then becomes: Limit yourself because there are but only so many clubs in certain states that work totally clean [and as I pointed out before, even those are never TOTALLY clean], which means you have to make less money because you are invested in traveling to where these clubs are to work [unless you are lucky enough to have one around the corner]; or stay clean and adapt your game to work in clubs where extras might be happening. This allows you to work in any club therefore greatly enhancing your money making potential.

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 12:24 PM
Slinky - keep something else in mind. Even at your parties, the clean girls were working in a clean area. They weren't doing their thing while the guy on the next couch had his pants down at his ankles with a gal on her knees in front of him. I don't think that some of them would have felt comfortable just doing laps in a few other areas of the party space.

How many clubs do you go to where the clean dancers are doing their thing next to dirty dancer blowing a guy next to them?

Extras are almost always performed in areas where some level of privacy is certain, like CRs and VIPs. If there is one, big, common LD area there might be something going on but it is almost always in violation of the house rules. So there are ways to deal with that.

In our parties the "clean" room is clean for a reason. The dirty rooms are dirty for their reasons. It certainly makes my job easier that they are and I have no problem seeing that the "keep the extras to the VIPs" is strictly enforced.

millions_of_peaches
03-12-2009, 12:43 PM
Also, the customers that come in looking for extras are often very cheap--that is, they DON'T bring the club that much money. And they're often grabby with girls that don't give extras.

I work in a club that runs out extras girls and the club is doing fine without them. And the girls are doing just fine, too.

This is my true aggravation with 'extras' girls. Most times, my money is unaffected, but if I am getting molested because of them, I get pissed! It is usually when they just give it up without charging extra that it causes me problems. Generally, if they charge extra money to give the extra mile, the guys do not assume it is a given, and I have much less of a problem. Then, the worst I get is generally of the 'everybody has a price' b.s. variety.

verfolgung
03-12-2009, 01:08 PM
As I read your posts I get the following arguments:

1) Clean girls can make money along side "dirty" girls. I agree with this premise for many of the same reasons already mentioned. Yes, not all customers will seek out "dirty" girls, and clean girls can still find good customers to bank on.

2) Clean girls would make more money if they had "dirty" girls working with them than if they worked in a "clean" club. Here is where I disagree. I don't think it's the presence of "dirty" girls that drives up the income of the "clean" girls and I don't believe that having "dirty" girls is a necessity. Also, I believe there are limits to where a place can be considered too "dirty".

We have a club in the Providence area called Cheaters, and it is well known to be one of the dirtiest clubs around. If your premise were correct then lots of clean girls would seek to work there and bank along side the "dirty" girls. This does not happen.

You also seem to be overlooking the fact that some casual customers looking to have some good clean fun, don't want to go to a place with a bad reputation. For example, a guy tells his wife he was out with some buddies and they went to "clean" club A - she's fine with it. He tells her that his buddies dragged him into "dirty" club B - she's kind of disgusted. Hell, I'm single, and I know I don't want to spend my time in a place that is essentially a brothel, that's why I go to a SC and not a brothel in the first place.

I've known too many really good dancers who were some of the classiest, and most professional ladies you'd ever meet, leave the industry over the last few years because of the downward spiral. As Yoda mentioned, Providence essentially became a free for all environment with the current laws in place. More "dirty" girls showed up offering to do more for less. This didn't bring in more customers, especially not more customers willing to spend a lot of money on the "clean" dancers. ... Was money still available for the "clean" girls? Yes. But the process was more and more aggrevating. Instead of having to deal with 2-3 undesirable customers out of 10, the ratio started to swing the other way. Eventually many would be "clean" girls got frustrated and quit or looked for other areas to work.

Eric Stoner
03-12-2009, 01:16 PM
How many clubs do you go to where the clean dancers are doing their thing next to dirty dancer blowing a guy next to them?

Extras are almost always performed in areas where some level of privacy is certain, like CRs and VIPs. If there is one, big, common LD area there might be something going on but it is almost always in violation of the house rules. So there are ways to deal with that.

In our parties the "clean" room is clean for a reason. The dirty rooms are dirty for their reasons. It certainly makes my job easier that they are and I have no problem seeing that the "keep the extras to the VIPs" is strictly enforced.

Not many, but there are a very few. All are well known as "dirty" clubs and at one or two the "clean" girls have to do laps right next to or in close proximity to the "dirty" girls. Likewise, at Slinky's last party, wasn't there a "mixed" lap-dance area in addition to the "no-extras" room and the VIP's ?

Btw, doesn't the nomenclature get a little silly sometimes. I've met a few "clean" dancers who skimped on the deodorant and mouthwash and plenty of "dirty" gals who are scrupulously clean and hygienic.

Eric Stoner
03-12-2009, 01:24 PM
As I read your posts I get the following arguments:

1) Clean girls can make money along side "dirty" girls. I agree with this premise for many of the same reasons already mentioned. Yes, not all customers will seek out "dirty" girls, and clean girls can still find good customers to bank on.

2) Clean girls would make more money if they had "dirty" girls working with them than if they worked in a "clean" club. Here is where I disagree. I don't think it's the presence of "dirty" girls that drives up the income of the "clean" girls and I don't believe that having "dirty" girls is a necessity. Also, I believe there are limits to where a place can be considered too "dirty".

We have a club in the Providence area called Cheaters, and it is well known to be one of the dirtiest clubs around. If your premise were correct then lots of clean girls would seek to work there and bank along side the "dirty" girls. This does not happen.

You also seem to be overlooking the fact that some casual customers looking to have some good clean fun, don't want to go to a place with a bad reputation. For example, a guy tells his wife he was out with some buddies and they went to "clean" club A - she's fine with it. He tells her that his buddies dragged him into "dirty" club B - she's kind of disgusted. Hell, I'm single, and I know I don't want to spend my time in a place that is essentially a brothel, that's why I go to a SC and not a brothel in the first place.

I've known too many really good dancers who were some of the classiest, and most professional ladies you'd ever meet, leave the industry over the last few years because of the downward spiral. As Yoda mentioned, Providence essentially became a free for all environment with the current laws in place. More "dirty" girls showed up offering to do more for less. This didn't bring in more customers, especially not more customers willing to spend a lot of money on the "clean" dancers. ... Was money still available for the "clean" girls? Yes. But the process was more and more aggrevating. Instead of having to deal with 2-3 undesirable customers out of 10, the ratio started to swing the other way. Eventually many would be "clean" girls got frustrated and quit or looked for other areas to work.

I don't think "B" is necessarily being said or advocated. I am certainly saying it is a situational thing dependant on the overall picture.

I don't think that Providence is a good example. Hasn't prostitution effectively been decriminalized in Rhode Island ? I think So. Fla. is a better one because over the past 5 or 6 years there has been a large influx of Dominican, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan, Colombian and Brazilian dancers willing to do a LOT more for less BUT in the VIP's. Extras have shot way up and it definitely got harder for the "clean" gals to compete.

CKXXX
03-12-2009, 02:37 PM
I think So. Fla. is a better one because over the past 5 or 6 years there has been a large influx of Dominican, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan, Colombian and Brazilian dancers willing to do a LOT more for less BUT in the VIP's. Extras have shot way up and it definitely got harder for the "clean" gals to compete.
Yep..when 9 out of 10 dancers are hooking in the club and guys have come to expect that...the clean dancers income is SIGNIFICANTLY affected no matter what you do.

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 02:43 PM
Not many, but there are a very few. All are well known as "dirty" clubs and at one or two the "clean" girls have to do laps right next to or in close proximity to the "dirty" girls. Likewise, at Slinky's last party, wasn't there a "mixed" lap-dance area in addition to the "no-extras" room and the VIP's ?

Btw, doesn't the nomenclature get a little silly sometimes. I've met a few "clean" dancers who skimped on the deodorant and mouthwash and plenty of "dirty" gals who are scrupulously clean and hygienic.

In the past the semi-privates could be used that way [don't know if, or how often, they actually were]. Not at this last party though. We made an effort to segregate specifically so the dancers who worked clean would be more comfortable.

We do try to make sure everyone knows precisely what is what so that no one, entertainer or guest, is confused about what they are purchasing into by attending the parties. We make damn sure every entertainer gets to pick their limits and it is truly the only part of the interaction between entertainers and other guests we involve ourselves in, making sure those limits are respected.

Golden_Rule
03-12-2009, 02:53 PM
Yep..when 9 out of 10 dancers are hooking in the club and guys have come to expect that...the clean dancers income is SIGNIFICANTLY affected no matter what you do.

Not the ones who know how to adapt their game to work in that environment.

They make money and stay within their limits.

I go down to the Palms. In fact I am heading down that way in a week or so. I go for the end of Spring Training almost every year.

I know a lot of dancers down that way and you find those that do extras and those that don't. Of the ones that don't you find two types. Those that bank because they know their customer base, the market they work in, and work the system so it works for them. Then there are the type who complain all the time about the "dirty" girls when they should be making money.

The point is that if someone decides to work a certain gig they should know going in what the market is. That is what smart sellers of a product do. That is what all that market testing is for, to know the the lay of the land before you go in.

Than you develop your "pitch" to work in that market.

Clean dancers who know how to sell their product in what has become of this market bank and stay clean. Lamenting that the market has changed never worked for anyone selling anything and only results in empty pockets.

[ugh, I said I was finished trying to make this point :) ] It just bothers me when people say they can't make money. If one is smart one can always make money and stay within their limits. It is simply a matter of knowing how to take something you see as a negative and turn it into a positive. The old lemonade from lemons bit. When 9 out of 10 are doing something one way and you are the 10th that differentiates you and should, if you know what you are doing, make it EASIER to make money; not harder. The other 9 have to compete against each other. The 10th stands alone and THAT is great place to be in a marketing situation if you know how to use it to your advantage.

Eric Stoner
03-12-2009, 03:57 PM
Not the ones who know how to adapt their game to work in that environment.

They make money and stay within their limits.

I go down to the Palms. In fact I am heading down that way in a week or so. I go for the end of Spring Training almost every year.

I know a lot of dancers down that way and you find those that do extras and those that don't. Of the ones that don't you find two types. Those that bank because they know their customer base, the market they work in, and work the system so it works for them. Then there are the type who complain all the time about the "dirty" girls when they should be making money.

The point is that if someone decides to work a certain gig they should know going in what the market is. That is what smart sellers of a product do. That is what all that market testing is for, to know the the lay of the land before you go in.

Than you develop your "pitch" to work in that market.

Clean dancers who know how to sell their product in what has become of this market bank and stay clean. Lamenting that the market has changed never worked for anyone selling anything and only results in empty pockets.

[ugh, I said I was finished trying to make this point :) ] It just bothers me when people say they can't make money. If one is smart one can always make money and stay within their limits. It is simply a matter of knowing how to take something you see as a negative and turn it into a positive. The old lemonade from lemons bit. When 9 out of 10 are doing something one way and you are the 10th that differentiates you and should, if you know what you are doing, make it EASIER to make money; not harder. The other 9 have to compete against each other. The 10th stands alone and THAT is great place to be in a marketing situation if you know how to use it to your advantage.

There is definitely some truth to this. I know a lot of gals who work down there of both persuasions and some in between. The cleaner gals have had to adjust their game and work HARDER but can still bank at CERTAIN Clubs. If you try to work "Mons" in Tampa and not permit contact, you will starve. Likewise there are some clubs in So. Fla. that are simply glorified brothels and the overwhelming majority of custies go there looking for extras. Trying to survive in one without doing extras MIGHT be possible but it would take extraordinary looks and personality to do so. The practical alternative for most gals is to just find a "cleaner" club and most of those are slow in comparison. Sometimes a LOT slower.
I'm very familiar with Hustler in NYC. The clean gals have a choice- they can sit and bitch about the extras girls or get off their asses and hustle. But make no mistake. They DO have to work harder to compete. They DO have to refine their pitch.

It's just like a lot of other things and other environments. Those that adapt, survive and even thrive. Those that don't usually end up doing something else.

Eric Stoner
03-12-2009, 04:00 PM
In the past the semi-privates could be used that way [don't know if, or how often, they actually were]. Not at this last party though. We made an effort to segregate specifically so the dancers who worked clean would be more comfortable.

We do try to make sure everyone knows precisely what is what so that no one, entertainer or guest, is confused about what they are purchasing into by attending the parties. We make damn sure every entertainer gets to pick their limits and it is truly the only part of the interaction between entertainers and other guests we involve ourselves in, making sure those limits are respected.

I honestly wasn't sure as I didn't go to the "semi-private" area. Just read some "after-action" reports that mentioned the VARIETY of activities in the semi-private area.

CKXXX
03-12-2009, 05:05 PM
Likewise there are some clubs in So. Fla. that are simply glorified brothels and the overwhelming majority of custies go there looking for extras. Trying to survive in one without doing extras MIGHT be possible but it would take extraordinary looks and personality to do so.
Yep. The odds of finding a clean club in this area with any money potential is slim to none. You can still get lucky and make money hustling HARD on looks and personality alone while competing against $20 hookers...but that certainly isnt going to happen most days.

I've actually stopped dancing much here anymore and am doing other things now because after years of adjusting my hustle..there was no more room left to adjust.

Eric Stoner
03-13-2009, 08:09 AM
Yep. The odds of finding a clean club in this area with any money potential is slim to none. You can still get lucky and make money hustling HARD on looks and personality alone while competing against $20 hookers...but that certainly isnt going to happen most days.

I've actually stopped dancing much here anymore and am doing other things now because after years of adjusting my hustle..there was no more room left to adjust.

"$20" ???? Have things gotten THAT bad in So. Fla. ? Last time I was down there I was quoted a LOT higher than "$20".

CKXXX
03-13-2009, 08:39 AM
"$20" ???? Have things gotten THAT bad in So. Fla. ? Last time I was down there I was quoted a LOT higher than "$20".
Sadly in some clubs...yep. I've seen girls doing a reg $20 dance and unzip and gobble up the cock without being asked OR asking for extra money for it. Like a BJ is just part of a dance. Pathetic and disgusting. Not all clubs are THAT bad..but yeah..a lot are now.

Eric Stoner
03-13-2009, 10:18 AM
Sadly in some clubs...yep. I've seen girls doing a reg $20 dance and unzip and gobble up the cock without being asked OR asking for extra money for it. Like a BJ is just part of a dance. Pathetic and disgusting. Not all clubs are THAT bad..but yeah..a lot are now.

Wow ! I didn't realize it had gotten THAT bad ! Yikes. Even the streetwalkers are doing better than that. Aren't they ?

Most gals I know down there wouldn't do anything like that for a hun ... I mean fifty dollars.