View Full Version : hit a customer?
Kaelyria
03-16-2009, 09:05 PM
I still hold that if the customers would stop being asshats in the first place and treat the ladies AS ladies we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
~K
Golden_Rule
03-16-2009, 09:50 PM
First and foremost, you are a promoter for underground "private parties" which in plain english, based on other statements, means you operate or promote traveling brothels.
Just for the record, the promoter is here. His screen name is "Slinkybender". I manage the floor, supervise security, and screen the list of invited guests.
Some of your points are valid, but your events are completely different than a regularly operating club. Your budget/margins allowed are also different and possibly even the way in which you pay your "security". In your situation you could work out a barter system basically, and allow entry to some of the what you call entertainment, but I call whores, in the cases that you know are going to be peddling the required wares, and inform the "security" that you have taken care of them for X amt. of time in exchange for the security provided.
Umm, no. The guys don't want to be taken care of in anything but cash. Candidly, if they wanted to be taken care of in the way you suggest above I'd figure they were the wrong type and wouldn't want them on my crew anyway. Those are the kind of guys who take "tips" from customers to look the other way. My guys just want to do a job, get paid, and go home.
In addition to that you seem to be thinking only of the legal and liability ramifications, as well as perfect world situation job descriptions, when in reality, a good manager cares about the situation at hand and acts accordingly, and perfect world situations don't exist because we dont live in a perfect world.
The world is the sum total of the people in it. If being a cop taught me anything it taught me that.
If you don't think you can change the world by changing people's attitudes I don't know what to tell you. Reality is what we make of it, the sum of us, but it all starts with the person in the mirror. The only person we have an immediate effect and control of, ourselves.
If we did these situations wouldnt happen, antidepressants would never have been invented due to lack of need, and the economy wouldnt be crashing. The reality is that I dont know of too many manager who would take the same stance as you.
Shame that, if that is the case. I wonder if that would stay the same if dancers, in their sum, refused to work until they did feel that way. Would be interesting to see.
If someone violated one of my girls I would not blame them in the least for protecting themselves...
Nor would I if "violated" matched the legal definition of assault in some way.
... nor would any police agency or court in the land, so long as it was within reason and not taken overboard.
The law is a cold, hard, factual thing. Within reason and not taken overboard means that it met the legal standard. In that case, fine. If not, I can promise the police and a court would not only hold them accountable, they would do it with bureaucratic efficiency. Not to would be criminal malfeasance.
While it is not ok for any staff member to beat someone senseless, sometimes violence is an unfortunate necessary occurance. In nearly every instance so long as the beating isnt overboard and the police are contacted, the offending customer will be arrested for whatever offenses or asked to leave by the police. In these instances no report will be filed with the ABC board, because the situation was not due to any wrong doing on the part of the club and it was not an altercation between patrons, but staff/customers, so long as it was handled in a proper fashion in the opinion of the officers on scene.
You must be from a small community where the bar owners and the cops know each other fairly well and they come in and have a belt every now and than, maybe on the arm. :)
In big cities that isn't how it works. In these litigious times everyone is covering their own ass and running everything by the numbers. Cops working under the color of their office can be sued directly now-days and no one wants to lose their house or their kids college fund.
If a guy comes to the cops and he claims bouncers beat him up and he has physical signs of injury, or a treatment report from a hospital, and he insists we go back to the club and make arrests - arrests are going to be made and let the court sort it out. Then no one can claim the cops didn't do their jobs.
THAT is how it works in the real world today. Perhaps it just hasn't caught up with your part of it yet, but it will. N.O. may be a big city, but in a lot of ways it hasn't left the 1950's. Since you are from there you know what I mean. I'm not claiming my neck of the woods is any better. We had the same rep too but that ended a long time ago. Knapp Commission and all that. :) Tammany Hall has been gone for a very, very, long time.
With the liability issues, most places consider this to be a hazard of the business, and there are ways around it. I guess when your running a traveling brothel, things are different because as you have pointed out so many times, the guestlist is INVITE ONLY vs. open to the public, so you have much more control and much less chance of one of your attendees getting out of line, given the possible consequence for everyone there shoud a situation arise. As far as that goes, IMO you are only posting here in order to try to recruit girls. Just my opinion.
When I post to invite dancers and male guests to attend and work our functions I am very open about it. I am very much WYSIWYG. I don't go around things. I come right at them, and very much to the point.
I have no agendas that are hidden. Any I have are right out in the open to see and I label them as such just in case anyone misses it. :)
BTW, and for the record, the parties are not legally traveling brothels because the house gets NO CUT from any activity that takes place between the entertainers and the guests. We are no different than a hotel in that we rent them a room. Even the rate is reasonable so it is obvious it is only for a room and nothing more. What they do in the room is their business. We have nothing to do with it and we don't check up on what goes on in our VIPs between consenting adults unless someone asks for help. If at that time we find them breaking the law, out they go. We can all conjure, but conjucture isn't fact. It may be a small hook upon which to hang a hat, but it is a legal one and our hat sits upon it.
Golden_Rule
03-16-2009, 09:57 PM
I still hold that if the customers would stop being asshats in the first place and treat the ladies AS ladies we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
~K
I wouldn't dare argue against the logic of that statement.
chris91
03-17-2009, 01:04 AM
I am sure there are clubs, maybe even the majority of them where you are, that are precisely like that.
That only happens though if the dancers put up with it.
Safety in the work place is something you have to demand. I know because I did it for more than 100 guys when I use to represent them.
How exactly do you suggest we do this? I suppose in fantasy land it would be possible to round up all the dancers from one club and get them to strike. Then we could all go work at mcdonalds while the club re-staffs from the constant stream of 18 year old girls who want to be strippers or pulls girls from the other clubs they own.
Here in the real world, I think a better idea would be to encourage every girl who has her ass grabbed by a stranger to respond with a swift kick in the nuts. Some of us may go to jail for it, due to your precious laws being made by people who refer to physical violation as an "insult", but it will be worth it when dudes finally realize that my body is not community property.
If it isn't the case than it is the clubs fault for creating an environment where you can easily be victimized. Maybe even more so than the asshole doing the reprehensible behavior.
Perhaps if you are going to split some one's head open it ought to be the manager or the owner of the place. :)
Really dude? It's my fault first and now it's the managers fault? Maybe even more so than the asshole doing the reprehensible behavior.?!?
The fact that you continue to place blame on everyone but the original offender surprises me. I have a hard time believing that if some dude grabbed a female police officers ass, he wouldn't receive a severe beatdown from every male cop in the vicinity, or at least be carted off to jail and charged with assaulting an officer. Or maybe the cops would beat each other up for failing to protect her in the first place?
Golden_Rule
03-17-2009, 07:54 PM
Some of us may go to jail for it, due to your precious laws being made by people who refer to physical violation as an "insult", but it will be worth it when dudes finally realize that my body is not community property.
I don't make the laws. I only report what I know from 25 years of enforcing them. I don't like that guys get 'handsy' with dancers when they haven't been invited, and I can promise you it is nothing I ever do when in a SC.
The fact that you continue to place blame on everyone but the original offender surprises me.
You haven't read all that I wrote. I am not letting the grabby assholes off the hook. I have even referred to them as assholes previous to this.
Like I said I'm just reporting what can go wrong if, when you take the law into your own hands, you open some one up like a sardine can. [I'm not talking, and never have been, things like slaps in the face and stuff like that... I have been talking serious mayhem that requires going to a ER to fix - notice I've been mentioning hospital visits through out].
holly07
03-17-2009, 08:51 PM
I've slapped, punched, nearly choked, and racked them in the balls. They all deserved it.
chris91
03-17-2009, 11:56 PM
I don't make the laws. I only report what I know from 25 years of enforcing them. I don't like that guys get 'handsy' with dancers when they haven't been invited, and I can promise you it is nothing I ever do when in a SC.
I don't see how this is relevant. I was asking you to explain how dancers are supposed to change the fact that clubs don't protect us.
You haven't read all that I wrote. I am not letting the grabby assholes off the hook. I have even referred to them as assholes previous to this.
Like I said I'm just reporting what can go wrong if, when you take the law into your own hands, you open some one up like a sardine can. [I'm not talking, and never have been, things like slaps in the face and stuff like that... I have been talking serious mayhem that requires going to a ER to fix - notice I've been mentioning hospital visits through out].
I have read all that you wrote, and I'm telling you that it is irrelevant and some of it is very insulting. Being a cop and running private free for all parties does not give you any knowledge about the reality of strip clubs. Bouncers and cops are not there to protect us. Girls do not get blacklisted. Ass grabbing is not an "insult". We have to take care of ourselves, and you are in no position to tell us how or when we should do so.
I am not going to just stand there and let some dude paw at me. Ass grabbing, in my book, is just as bad as a punch in the face. The law may not agree, but I don't care about the law, because the law doesn't care about strippers.
nola manager
03-18-2009, 07:12 AM
Much the same as the boy who cried wolf, I wouldnt pay Golden Rule any mind. How can you argue points of the law and claim to have upheld it when you also openly admit to breaking it? I wouldnt be surprised if Golden Rule had their 25 years of law service interrupted upon an Internal Affairs investigation. Let us not forget that according to the law which he has pointed out is cold, hard, and factual, the same as a landlord who knows that his property is being used as a drug den can be charged under the crack house law, one who knows that prostitution may be going on and charges prices for rental, no matter how much of the money goes towards the payment for sex, can be charged with letting the premises for prostitution.
In regards to where I grew up or currently live, had you simply read any of my other posts Mr. Policeman Investigator, you would know that I am from New Orleans. While the population of our city may be quite diminished since Katrina, I would never call it a small community, nor would the rest of the world.
In regards to changing the world by changing peoples attitudes, were you able to address everyone in the world and make such a compelling argument on a given topic that they were compelled to change their mind about that topic, then yes you could change the world. Even if you were able to address all of the inhabitants of one small community and do this that would be impressive, but not change the world as a whole. The reality is that the world is a hard cold place, and people need to be protected, whether by good people in uniforms, or charlatans hiding behind the guise of a uniform who may still commit acts of good sometimes.
Allice
03-18-2009, 01:56 PM
How can you argue points of the law and claim to have upheld it when you also openly admit to breaking it?
Oh good god, seriously, thank you.
Kudos to all the women on here who have posted who don't put up with any bullshit. I think we're all not so naive to think that someone else is always going to take care of us, or the possible, unfortunate legal ramifications it may cost us to defend ourselves.
I've poured a drink over a few heads, haven't hit someone hard yet but sure as hell would if he assaulted (insulted? lol, really wtf planet do you live on?) me- ie, put his hands where they didn't belong. I've slapped a few guys in the face, but I don't really count that as that's what they've wanted out of me. After a few slaps you realize this; the good thing with my last club is we got paid up front, so when the slime crawled out from under the rock, I was able to get up and walk away.
I've had a co-worker of mine take a shift off after being violently choked in an open VIP/lap-dance section- one where the bouncer/VIP dude is sitting right there. I've seen a girl kick someone in the head after he charged after her on stage. There are more, but I can't think of all of them now.
Don't sexually abuse us, and we won't physically abuse you.
Kaelyria
03-19-2009, 05:33 PM
I am not going to just stand there and let some dude paw at me. Ass grabbing, in my book, is just as bad as a punch in the face. The law may not agree, but I don't care about the law, because the law doesn't care about strippers.
*applauds*
Cops only care about strippers if we're the ones breaking the law. Anything else "we were asking for it." Bouncers are a good step in the right direction, but the guy in the position of bouncer isn't always the kind of guy you can count on to defend you, the manager isn't always around, and their jurisdiction only extends so far. As abhorrent as it is, if we don't defend ourselves no one else will.
Besides, I've seen regular bar fights erupt between customers over less than we put up with. We shouldn't have to verbally defend our defensive actions to some pimp-troll on the internet.
~K
hockeybobby
03-19-2009, 06:12 PM
This thread is a natural for a Viola Strings cameo appearance.
An interesting thread but it has run it's course. Thank you all for your participation.
~click~
FBR