View Full Version : Romance on the Job
Blue_Dust_Bunny
03-24-2009, 06:57 PM
No you're not normal. Normal is Mrs. John Smith, mother of 2 1/3 kids who play soccer and do gymnastics, goes to church twice a week if only to compare conservative fashions and mini-van colors, is a stay-at-home mom, and believes whatever her husband tells her when he comes home from his 9-5. Normal is mundane. Normal is boring. Normal sucks.
Another point I would like to make is that the dancers who have posted in this thread are not trying to deny the fact that they do something very special, but that they are women who should be treated with respect just like any "normal" non-at the job woman. The idea that men objectify and make us into date candidates JUST BECAUSE we are dancers is in fact really degrading - it says that you don't really care about us as a person - you know, a normal female with feelings and interests outside of flirting and getting naked.
And this "plain Jane" women you are talking about ( who really doesn't exist)? - She has something special going on too. Everyone does and you should not just assume things based on outside appearances and job descriptions
In reality, I can totally see how a customer might end up wanting to go out with a dancer. By the time 3 AM roles around and you've spent hours (and some alcohol) talking to about life, the universe, and everything, it makes sense that a guy could start thinking "jee, she really does dig me, I should ask her out". And who knows, the girl could also start to feel a genuine connection as well. Its this mentality that a strip club is a place to go for dates that is really annoying.
Elvia
03-24-2009, 06:58 PM
I get your point... But, if I said I wanted to date, for example, a nurse, lawyer, doctor or teacher, no one would be surprised or offended or regard my preferences as creepy. \
That's not true. If the single most important,driving aspect in your search for a partner was that she absolutely had to be of a certain profession, I would definitely question your motives, and it would be creepy.
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 08:07 AM
And this "plain Jane" women you are talking about ( who really doesn't exist)? - She has something special going on too. Everyone does and you should not just assume things based on outside appearances and job descriptions.
I've dated plenty of "plain Janes" and I didn't say they are not special. But, what is wrong with wanting to try something new... Like wanting to date someone of a different race, ethnicity, social class, etc... I've dated plenty of white girls who were curious about my Latin ethnicity and I've played the Latin lover role to capitalize on this... (I've tried to learn to dance Salsa... but my efforts were pathetic...)
One girl on this thread says she likes "bad boys" and you all get it... I get it too... Bad boys tend to be "alpha males"... They break the rules, they are spontaneous and unpredictable, they don't "conform" with the norms of the general herd, but are unique and creative... They stand up for what they believe in and pursue what they want with undaunted determination regardless of the consequences... You feel protected by the "bad boy" because they are not afraid of physical confrontations and know how to fight dirty... They inspire fascination, love, fear, hate... and provide plenty of what women love the most... drama... emotional rolercoasters... Not to mention that deep below the rough and hard exterior of a "bad boy"... is a sensitive poet just waiting for the right woman to come along and create the path that allows this gentler side to shine through. (Yeah, right.)
So, dating a stripper is the male version of this fantasy... It is dating the ultimate "bad" girl. From what I've read on this thread, though... it appears that dating a stripper would be no different than dating a "nice" girl that conforms to everything (outside of the SC) and is virtually indistinguishable from "plain Jane"... How disappointing...:(
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 08:24 AM
That's not true. If the single most important,driving aspect in your search for a partner was that she absolutely had to be of a certain profession, I would definitely question your motives, and it would be creepy.
I agree. If guy wants to date a stripper... any stripper... that is creepy. It is like a girl wanting to date me ONLY because I'm a lawyer... I wouldn't date her, because I would question her motives... But, I am sure that my career choice has had a positive effect on my attraction level to the opposite sex. Would I have dated all these women if I was a janitor... probably not...
I made it clear that my standards are very high, I'm not interested in just any stripper... If I asked a stripper what she plans on doing in 5 years and she had no fucking clue... There is no way I would consider dating her regardless of how stunning her looks. Stripping is cute when you're young, but you better have AMBITION for the long term... You should be saving money to pay for college, go to art school or dance school, start a small business... etc. If you have no AMBITION, then you and I both agree about keeping the stripper/custie relationship strictly on a professional level.
What I like about dancers: brave, confident, indepedent, smart, knowledgeable about human psychology, sexually liberated, open-minded, business-oriented... Add to this an intellectual or artistic disposition with AMBITION that goes beyond stripping... and that is what I THOUGHT I wanted (before you girls beat the idea out of my head).
There are a number of dancers that fit my description... Maybe they are a small minority, I don't know... They have become writers, journalists, college professors (usually feminist intellectuals), artists, academy award winners (the movie Juno) and small business owners (for example producing books/videos about erotic dancing for regular women or opening up dance studios to teach regular women strip-aerobics or pole dancing).
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 12:35 PM
The idea that men objectify and make us into date candidates JUST BECAUSE we are dancers is in fact really degrading - it says that you don't really care about us as a person - you know, a normal female with feelings and interests outside of flirting and getting naked.
So, you're okay with a guy wanting to have sex with you... But, if he desires to take you out to dinner... that offends you? /:O If you are an okay dancer, men will objectify you... If you are a great dancer,... men will fall in love with you.
Three comments:
(1) You embody the ultimate "bad" girl male fantasy... Read my other post about this... It's like when a girl wants to date the "bad" boy who rides a Harley and/or is in a rock band... The mere fact that a guy rides a badass bike will make girls "objectify" him as a bad boy and he'll get more play with the hot girls than the poor clueless bastard that wears GAP button-down shirts and drives a Buick sedan. You being a dancer is like a dude on a really bad-ass Harley towing a shiny electric guitar that he can play like the devil himself.
(2) We live in a society of ubiquitous objectification... every commercial that sell products to men, essentially says... buy this object and you will get laid... (I started my college career as a communications major and learned in my first semester about subliminal sexually suggestive images in advertisements.) And isn't the whole purpose of fashion and cosmetics to exponentially increase a woman's sex appeal... thus, turning her into a total sex object??? OTC - Do you ever wear bright red lip stick or high heels that makes the curve of your butt stick out teasingly?
(3) You are a seductress, by profession... Read The Art Of Seduction by Robert Greene. This is a great book that every dancer should read. It makes a good point - Any semi-sexy woman can get a guy horny (sometimes alcohol helps) and exercise temporary powers over him, but this power only lasts a short while, until she gives herself to him. The "seductress" is considerably more powerful... Here's a summary -
These women-among them Bathsheba, from the Old Testament; Helen of Troy; the Chinese siren Hsi Shi; and the greatest of them all, Cleopatra-invented seduction. First they would draw a man in with an alluring appearance, designing their makeup and adornment to fashion the image of a goddess come to life. By showing only glimpses of flesh, they would tease a man's imagination, stimulating the desire not just for sex but for something greater: the chance to possess a fantasy figure. Once they had their victims' interest, these women would lure them away from the masculine world of war and politics and get them to spend time in the feminine world-a world of luxury, spectacle, and pleasure... Men would grow hooked on these refined, sensual pleasures-they would fall in love... Men who had physical force and all the social power-men like King David, the Trojan Paris, Julius Caesar, Mark Antony, King Fu Chai-would find themselves becoming the slave of a woman.
In the face of violence and brutality, these women made seduction a sophisticated art, the ultimate form of power and persuasion. They learned to work on the mind first, stimulating fantasies, keeping a man wanting more, creating patterns of hope and despair-the essence of seduction. Their power was not physical but psychological, not forceful but indirect and cunning... For Cleopatra, in fact, it was a means of consolidating an empire. In seduction, the woman was no longer a passive sex object; she had become an active agent, a figure of power.
Isn't stripping about this - "tease a man's imagination, stimulating the desire not just for sex but for something greater... lure them away from the masculine world of [corporate] war and politics and get them to spend time in the feminine world-a world of luxury, spectacle, and pleasure."... Isn't the SC about "stimulating fantasies, keeping a man wanting more, creating patterns of hope and despair"... and even making guys "fall in love"?
Is the SC a place of fantasy and seduction... or is it just about horny guys wanting to look at random tits and ass??? How you answer this question is probably indicative of how successful you are as a dancer.
SteveSmith
03-25-2009, 01:26 PM
People's jobs can affect how other people look at the other person for dating material. Many guys won't date a dancer because of what they do, some will. You shouldn't want to date a person just because of their profession, but it's a factor. Many women will look at a guy's profession as a big factor on if the guy is dating material. The third question a girl asks a guy on a date is what he does for a living. How good of a job he has will influence a women's decision on his potential. I don't have to get into how many women go after musicians, celebrities, rich men, sports figures because of the the guy's profession.
Women tend to look for financial security when it comes to men and men tend to look at a women's physical attractiveness. So, a guy going into Hooters restaurant may hit on an attractive waitress with a nice body because she's attractive and has a nice body, not because she works at Hooters or because she's a Hooter's girl. Kind of the same thing with a dancer. Men don't want to date her because she works at a SC, but because she's attractive and has a nice body, not because she's a dancer. In fact, many men will want her to quit dancing if the relationship gets serious. So, for most men, the dancing thing may be an overall negative. He's attracted to you, not your job. Dancing can add to your hottness/physical attractiveness, though.
Of course, it's personality, attractiveness, intelligence, chemistry, etc., that should be the deciding factor on whether you date someone, but the other person's job may have some influence. I mean, how many women are going to date a bum?
Elvia
03-25-2009, 02:04 PM
^^^ But that's not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about being "influenced"by someone's career. We're talking about exlcusively trying to date dancers. No, it's not the only factor- if she's ugly or uninteresting you won't date her, even if she's a dancer, fine. But He's specifically going after dancers. It's not "I want to date a woman who is a free spirit/a "bad girl"/attractive." It's "I want to date a dancer." If it was the former, you wouldn't limit yourself to trying to find a date in a strip club, which is stupid and unlikely to get results anyway.
A woman's interest might be peaked if she find a man she's flirting with is a lawyer. It's a very different thing if he just HAS to be a lawyer.
Cappii
03-25-2009, 02:20 PM
To clarify: When I tell people I'm normal, I feel like it's true. I'm a good student. I'm generally extremely quiet. I'm family-oriented. This is what I mean when I say I'm "normal." When people try to pick me up at work ("Do you party a lot? Hey, wanna come back to my hotel after this?") I try to explain that I'm normal in the way that I am not who I appear to be at work. Does that make sense?
Makes perfect sense :D And I agree with that point. Even with my time as a bouncer, I was not who I was at home. At work, I was "all business", and as I alluded to in my earlier post, I was one of those "never" types. I refused to date any of the dancers because of the awkwardness of the situation that I felt it would have caused.
However, I do still hold onto my beliefs that you can truly never say never.
charlie61
03-25-2009, 02:34 PM
^^ Absolutely agreed.
Ryleigh
03-25-2009, 03:15 PM
this may be restating what people have said, but we as stippers get the same thing every shift. "youre so beautiful/intelligent/amazing" etc, its basically the same spill over and over. how do we know this guy isnt just telling lies? we dont know them personally, we cant know that they are telling the truth unless they show HARD EVIDENCE. its ok to want to date a stripper, every one does. ( and jack, you are a very sweet man. if all you have said is the truth, i dont really doubt it tho, you shouldnt have a problem). but its hard to distinguish the difference between the sincere ones and the creppy ones.
guys go into strip clubs to see tits, ass and pu**y, most all of them are thinking about is sex sex sex. most of them want to take us home and bang us. thats about it. its hard to get the stereotype out of our heads when thats mostly all we see.
Christyismyalias
03-25-2009, 03:21 PM
I stuck by my guns for years. No matter what I never called or met anyone I'd met at work.
Until...John.. We will call him John.
The second I saw him, I was in LOVE. And I am not talking puppy love, there was that THING everyone talks about and wants to experience. Only saw HIM when we met, no one else existed.. but I fought it for a long time... I got his number but would not call. When I couldn't stop thinking about him, I called. I NEEDED to know him. So we went out... We ended up falling for each other and dated for almost 2 years. Moved in and everything. I wanted to marry him and have his children, I thought I'd found my soul mate. We broke up 2 mths ago and I moved out. I still love him more than anyone EVER and if he had felt the same we would still be together.
Unfortunately, I guess it wasn't meant to be. Dancing was always an issue. I quit for him even though my plan was to finish school w/o student loans, I started working a "real" job and racked up 10,000 in student loans and credit cards. I resented him for not accepting me and it started hurting inside to conceal it all. I hated giving up all my independence. I gave myself to him entirely. I acted like a little hooked puppy b/c I loved him so much... I always put him first, never myself. We never fought and always respected each other. But in the end, he didn't love me enough. He was selfish with his emotions and never made me feel special, pretty, or wanted. I always felt like a failure with him... it was so crazy..
Bottom line, I'll never do it again. I know it is possible and people DO find their true loves in the club. BUT for me, I met someone who tore my heart out and made me feel like a HORRIBLE person for dancing even though dancing brought us together... He's a good guy but the emotional fuck was not healthy...
I am sticking with the fact that if a guy meets you in that environment, he will have a whacked perception of the person you are and will be hard for him to see you otherwise. That's how I felt before, I made an exception, and now I feel it 100X more. But good luck to anyone who tries it out. Be careful :)
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 04:01 PM
I am sticking with the fact that if a guy meets you in that environment, he will have a whacked perception of the person you are and will be hard for him to see you otherwise. That's how I felt before, I made an exception, and now I feel it 100X more.
I'm sorry it worked out terriby for you, but you could have met this guy and fallen for him anywhere, not just the SC. He would have had the same issues with you being a dancer, even if you and him met in a park.
Atleast, with the guy you meet in the SC... he knows what you do and shouldn't bitch about it... But, a guy you meet somewhere else could have issues with you dancing when it is first revealed to him... No?
I wonder at what point you tell him, and how most guys react...
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 04:20 PM
guys go into strip clubs to see tits, ass and pu**y, most all of them are thinking about is sex sex sex. most of them want to take us home and bang us. thats about it.
Isn't that true for all women everywhere, though... If you go to a regular dance club or bar and get hit on by hundreds of guys... Aren't most of those guys just thinking about sex sex sex? Even the guy that smiles at you from across the church pew is probably just thinking about sex sex sex... We are so overwhelmed with lust, that sometimes even we can't tell the difference between love and lust. :-\
I guess what you do is make the guy wait... and not have sex with him right away. Follow the advice in the book - The Rules :) If a girl makes me wait, sure I get frustrated as hell... But, it gives us time to get to know each other better and understand the chemistry. When she finally gives herself to me, it means a lot more to me because I know she is selective... and she is inviting me into a space that is very private and special to her.
When I look at a woman at church and smile, it is only because she seems like a good candidate for our Bible study class.
FBR
Elvia
03-25-2009, 04:40 PM
Jack,
I think the dancers are trying to tell you that most of them men we meet in the club who are interested in dating us are not good prospects. We would know this. Most of us have learned from experience, I'm not sure why you're trying to argue it.
Cappii
03-25-2009, 04:41 PM
But, you're falling for an ideal, not a woman. Not that I can disagree with you. Despite my "all business" attitude, I can't honestly say that I wasn't tempted on more than one occasion. I've had a couple of dancers profess their undying love for me. It caught me off guard on both occasions, however, because you rarely catch a glimpse of a dancer when she isn't "in character". In the few moments here and there that you do catch the "real" woman, you learn to make your conversations short and meaningful, skipping a lot of the small talk. I've often times made friends from within my work circles as such, as I think skipping the insignificant "how about the weather" conversations allows a more in-depth analysis of one's psyche, and also allows chemistry to work in it's purest form. However, for a custy and a dancer, there is always a different perspective involved. I've changed the way that I converse with dancers if I visit SCs, which is rare. I think that my experience in the business gives me a very unique perspective into what they are having to go through in order to make a buck. As a regular joe custy, you will VERY rarel, if ever, get to see beyond the character, thus going back to my original sentence, Jack. You are after an ideal.
This being said, I am NOT in ANY way saying that this is completely impossible, however.
Also, you will usually find what you are looking for when you stop looking for it.
charlie61
03-25-2009, 04:59 PM
Cappii-- I find that this real/stripper personality dichotomy is even more complicated than it appears. Personally, I am extremely "real" at work. Everything that comes out of my mouth is truthful (unless I'm joking about something, of course). However, the circumstances are what make my personality different.
I hate that customers are often so jaded--many of them think we're all lying to them 100% of the time. This isn't necessarily true. But obviously, we all do things at work that we wouldn't do in real life: we talk to men 3 times our age, we take our clothes off, and we put extra effort into our appearances. I think most strippers (or at least many) mix aspects of their real life personalities with the way we want to be perceived. And to be fair, this is exactly how "normal" people function at bars and whatnot (i.e. non-strippers). Everyone behaves differently when they go out to a nightclub compared to how they behave at their day jobs. As people, generally, we function by mediating the tension between our true/core selves and the parts of ourselves we present in public.
Strippers might have exaggerated personalities and appearances, but I'd be careful making such a severe distinction between that which is real vs. merely a "character." It's a blurry line.
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 05:02 PM
^^^ He's specifically going after dancers. It's not "I want to date a woman who is a free spirit/a "bad girl"/attractive." It's "I want to date a dancer." If it was the former, you wouldn't limit yourself to trying to find a date in a strip club, which is stupid and unlikely to get results anyway.
Who said I'm limiting myself to dancers? All I said was that I would like to date a dancer (before I got beat up by you dancers for saying that :().
Okay,... I want to date a "bad girl" - dancer, actress, model, artist or musician... I'll even go for a hottie policewoman - honestly, I think that is really hot... ::) (As a kid a had a thing for Wonder Woman... remember her?) Is that better? :)
charlie61
03-25-2009, 05:06 PM
^ In other words, you like adventurous (female) feminists?
I have to admit, I do enjoy the enigmatic aspects of my personality...one of which is the fact that I'm a stripper who is quite shy and quiet in real life. So I understand why you'd enjoy the same. As long as you aren't a creeper who spends his time in SC's trying to pick up the dancers, I'd say it's okay to have a healthy appreciation for the intrigue that adventurous jobs add to a person's character.
Cappii
03-25-2009, 05:09 PM
Charlie :) I do agree with what you are saying in part. However, being in character isn't necessarily like the differences between Shannen Doherty and Brenda Walsh. But, as has been posted in more than one post in the topic is that there are "circumstances" involved which change the very foundation of what makes you who you are. For example, many of the women wish whom I have been romantically involved don't mind sitting around naked for a bit for the fun of it, but most are too self conscious to do it as a general rule. Also, you would generally be more relaxed when you are amongst "regular" friends than around people for whom you are "entertaining". I may be out of line here, and I don't mean to, but i think it's more live covering up a clever lie with the truth.
charlie61
03-25-2009, 05:13 PM
^ Didn't mean to imply you were out of line. Was merely pointing out that it's a complex issue. Which I believe we agree on. :biggrin:
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 05:17 PM
Jack,
I think the dancers are trying to tell you that most of them men we meet in the club who are interested in dating us are not good prospects. We would know this. Most of us have learned from experience, I'm not sure why you're trying to argue it.
I'm not arguing... You ladies convinced me a long time ago and I'm not looking to date a dancer anymore, I said that... I don't want to be one of THOSE guys that you girls either call a creep or play with emotionally for profit...
We're just chatting,... that's all... stimulating conversation...:)
I totally agree with a lot of what you women say, and I can relate... If I have a good paying female client... I wouldn't date her either, because then she would expect me to work for free. :( (I've had clients develop crushes on me because they view me as their savior and protector... but the crush usually wears off when they receive my bill.) If some girl wanted to date me ONLY because I am a lawyer... I'd stay the hell away from her.../:O
SteveSmith
03-25-2009, 07:36 PM
I don't see this whole Dr.Jekyll/ Mr.Hyde change in a dancer's personality when she's at the SC that some people have mentioned on this forum.
Most dancers I've met act fairly real to me. I usually can detect SS when I hear it, but honestly, I don't run into it that much.
Part of my job is sales so I have to be friendly to the customer. Same thing for the dancer.
A dancer saying: "Hi, would you like a dance?" "How was your day?" "What do you do for a living?" doesn't require a metamorphoses in her personality to accomplish (As if she has such a shitty personality at home that she has to do a complete 180 in her personality when she's at the SC). :D
Being nice and friendly is how most people who are in sales act.
jack0177057
03-25-2009, 08:17 PM
^ In other words, you like adventurous (female) feminists?
Yes... Just as long as "feminist" does not mean man-haters. I also like powerful women... Not "powerful" as in political or physical power, but as in asserting themselves and exerting control over their environment. Like in a SC,... I feel that sense of power you have... It's like the gender roles get reversed in the SC... Women are predators,... men are prey...
^ I have to admit, I do enjoy the enigmatic aspects of my personality...one of which is the fact that I'm a stripper who is quite shy and quiet in real life. So I understand why you'd enjoy the same. As long as you aren't a creeper who spends his time in SC's trying to pick up the dancers, I'd say it's okay to have a healthy appreciation for the intrigue that adventurous jobs add to a person's character.
Hmmm, so you are quiet and shy OTC, but you are a godess exerting feminine power and dominion in the SC... So, I guess we all enjoy a little bit of fantasy in the SC...
charlie61
03-25-2009, 09:14 PM
^^ As a side note, the technical definition of feminism (as taught in college) is "The belief that women should be considered equal to men." Hardly lives up to the man-hating stereotype brought on by radical feminist groups (and patriarchal fears) in history...
Political_Junkie
03-25-2009, 10:00 PM
^^ This 'man-hating feminist' myth comes much more from the latter (patriarchal fears), than the former (radical feminist groups.)
In fact, I'd say the former exists mostly in the minds of today's conservative "leaders."
But back to the thread...
charlie61
03-25-2009, 10:03 PM
^ True. Very true. I meet very few men who understand what feminism actually is. And I hear so many women make statements mirroring the old saying "I'm not a feminist, but..." Like it's a shameful thing to declare.
And I think this entire thread has become one massive threadjack. However, it seems to be a fruitful and positive one.
Christyismyalias
03-26-2009, 02:39 AM
I'm sorry it worked out terriby for you, but you could have met this guy and fallen for him anywhere, not just the SC. He would have had the same issues with you being a dancer, even if you and him met in a park.
Very true. He could have done that regardless of where we met.. He made me out to be SUCH A BAD PERSON b/c of the dancing. But I let him, no one can "make" you feel a certain way, you give them the power. He said those places were dirty and whatnot.. I didn't get it since he went (and continued going) to the clubs.. Now after having went to the main club he and his "work buddies" went to, I think he had a guily conscience b/c that place was RAUNCHY! not like my club.. but anyways. I'm done now. :) it's over and I will not be bitter! I took out some aggression on these posts...
Thanks for the comment. Shed some light on my attitude. Obviously the wounds are still very fresh. :)
Christyismyalias
03-26-2009, 02:51 AM
Cappii-- I find that this real/stripper personality dichotomy is even more complicated than it appears. Personally, I am extremely "real" at work. Everything that comes out of my mouth is truthful (unless I'm joking about something, of course). However, the circumstances are what make my personality different.
I hate that customers are often so jaded--many of them think we're all lying to them 100% of the time. This isn't necessarily true. But obviously, we all do things at work that we wouldn't do in real life: we talk to men 3 times our age, we take our clothes off, and we put extra effort into our appearances. I think most strippers (or at least many) mix aspects of their real life personalities with the way we want to be perceived. And to be fair, this is exactly how "normal" people function at bars and whatnot (i.e. non-strippers). Everyone behaves differently when they go out to a nightclub compared to how they behave at their day jobs. As people, generally, we function by mediating the tension between our true/core selves and the parts of ourselves we present in public.
Strippers might have exaggerated personalities and appearances, but I'd be careful making such a severe distinction between that which is real vs. merely a "character." It's a blurry line.
This is SO entirely relatable to me... Everything you said is so right on.
SteveSmith
03-26-2009, 04:43 AM
I don't see this whole Dr.Jekyll/ Mr.Hyde change in a dancer's personality when she's at the SC that some people have mentioned on this forum.
Most dancers I've met act fairly real to me. I usually can detect SS when I hear it, but honestly, I don't run into it that much.
Part of my job is sales so I have to be friendly to the customer. Same thing for the dancer.
A dancer saying: "Hi, would you like a dance?" "How was your day?" "What do you do for a living?" doesn't require a metamorphoses in her personality to accomplish (As if she has such a shitty personality at home that she has to do a complete 180 in her personality when she's at the SC). :D
Being nice and friendly is how most people who are in sales act.
I want to add one more comment to this subject. Where is this great act of seduction from the dancer, that I've been reading about on this forum, that's suppose to happen when I'm in the SC? I mean, 90% of the time it's "Hi, would you like a dance." I don't see how this constitutes a great act of seduction (Like, this is suppose to just make me lose control of my senses and become putty in her hands?). What clubs are you guys going to where this act of seduction takes place? Am I missing something?
charlie61
03-26-2009, 05:11 AM
^ Yes, you're missing something. Sounds like you mainly go to larger, "wannadance" clubs.
And anyway, seduction can take many forms. My form of 'seduction' often involves fun and light-hearted conversation, and at other times, deep conversation. (Which works remarkably well). Seduction can also occur on stage, where the dancer may focus on a few customers who she will then later proposition for a dance--in other words, the seduction may occur prior to the actual sales pitch.
SteveSmith
03-26-2009, 05:55 AM
^ Yes, you're missing something. Sounds like you mainly go to larger, "wannadance" clubs.
And anyway, seduction can take many forms. My form of 'seduction' often involves fun and light-hearted conversation, and at other times, deep conversation. (Which works remarkably well). Seduction can also occur on stage, where the dancer may focus on a few customers who she will then later proposition for a dance--in other words, the seduction may occur prior to the actual sales pitch.
I was being a little facetious, Charlie61, but I do see what you're saying. :)
jack0177057
03-26-2009, 08:57 AM
I want to add one more comment to this subject. Where is this great act of seduction from the dancer, that I've been reading about on this forum, that's suppose to happen when I'm in the SC? I mean, 90% of the time it's "Hi, would you like a dance." I don't see how this constitutes a great act of seduction (Like, this is suppose to just make me lose control of my senses and become putty in her hands?). What clubs are you guys going to where this act of seduction takes place? Am I missing something?
I think it does depend to some extent on the club... The "Gentleman" clubs I go to in Houston are very nice and upscale... The atmosphere is very classy, the music is awesome and the women are absolutely stunning. If a dancer comes up to me and asks, "Hi, would you like a dance." - My reply is usually, "Maybe later, thank you." She is just going straight for my pocket,... not good salesmanship.
Charlie is right. The dancers that get my attention are the ones that engage me in fun and light-hearted conversation or deep conversation. They stimulate both my mind and my sex organs. The erotic dancing at the SC lures "me away from the masculine world of [corporate] war and politics" and gets me to "spend time in the feminine world-a world of luxury, spectacle, and pleasure."... A good dancer on stage will put me in a trance. When she descends from the stage to come down to my table and talk to me,... this can feel like a godess descending from the heavens to meet a mere mortal (I'm sure this is the intended effect - how else do you explain the smoke on stage that makes her look like she is amidst the clouds). Then, there is the mini-date which Charlie mentioned... If she is good at what she does, she is engaging my mind and she is making a lot of flirtatious eye contact and body language that is very flattering to her target... Her target could be 90 years old... or he could be the ugliest guy that ever graced the planet... but she makes him feel most attractive, virile, intelligent and desireable... something he may never feel OTC.
Finally, de coup de grace is the lap dance... What can I say about a good lap dance??? If I was a poet, I would devote an entire book of poetry to it... I think a slow and erotic lap dance is almost better than sex... the scent of the dancer,... the intense eye contact,... her face so close to mine and our lips almost touching (and sometimes light kissing - but this has only happened with a few dancers after repeat visits),... her hair cascading on my face,... her breast gently caressing my face,... the touch of her skin on my skin and her legs touching my legs,... the feel of her butt sitting on my lap (and yes, feeling her weight on my junk)...
I think a lap dance is very intimate, which is why I need the light-hearted conversation or deep conversation that Charlie is talking about. Also, there has to be some chemistry... Okay, maybe not, like, "romatic" chemistry... call it, instead, dancer/custie chemistry... If I don't feel it, I will not buy a dance...
To me, the SC is all about "stimulating fantasies, keeping a man wanting more, creating patterns of hope and despair"... I don't have orgasms at the SC (though, extras have been offered to me), but, I achieve a very high level of arousal at the SC... I like the tease... it keeps me coming back..." ::)
jack0177057
03-26-2009, 09:27 AM
^^ As a side note, the technical definition of feminism (as taught in college) is "The belief that women should be considered equal to men." Hardly lives up to the man-hating stereotype brought on by radical feminist groups (and patriarchal fears) in history...
Ironically, my interest in feminism started by reading books written by former dancers... which consider themselves feminists... and take issue with other feminists group that condemn women in the adult entertainment business...
One group of feminists condemn women in the adult entertainment business because they claim that the porn industry, SC, etc. promotes the objectification of women as a sex object.
The other group of feminists argues that it is the traditional male-dominated institutions that depict women as passive sex object and that adult entertainment, actually, depict women as active sexual beings with free expression of female sexuality.
There is also the issue regarding the ownership of female sexuality... In Bare: The Naked Truth About Stripping, Elisabeth Eaves makes an interesting observation. She said that before she was a stripper, she felt that other people owned her sexuality... Her parents demanded that she be chaste and tried to lock up her sexuality... Yet, on the other hand, men were always ogling her and making her feel like a sex object. When she became a stripper, she finally felt connected to her sexuality, in full control of it, and free to express it. Also, for the first time, she learned to capitalize on it... instead of other people capitalizing on it. I wonder if that's how most dancers feel...
Phil-W
03-26-2009, 11:24 AM
Charlie is right. The dancers that get my attention are the ones that engage me in fun and light-hearted conversation or deep conversation. They stimulate both my mind and my sex organs. The erotic dancing at the SC lures "me away from the masculine world of [corporate] war and politics" and gets me to "spend time in the feminine world-a world of luxury, spectacle, and pleasure."... A good dancer on stage will put me in a trance. When she descends from the stage to come down to my table and talk to me,... this can feel like a godess descending from the heavens to meet a mere mortal (I'm sure this is the intended effect - how else do you explain the smoke on stage that makes her look like she is amidst the clouds). Then, there is the mini-date which Charlie mentioned... If she is good at what she does, she is engaging my mind and she is making a lot of flirtatious eye contact and body language that is very flattering to her target... Her target could be 90 years old... or he could be the ugliest guy that ever graced the planet... but she makes him feel most attractive, virile, intelligent and desireable... something he may never feel OTC.
Finally, de coup de grace is the lap dance... What can I say about a good lap dance??? If I was a poet, I would devote an entire book of poetry to it... I think a slow and erotic lap dance is almost better than sex... the scent of the dancer,... the intense eye contact,... her face so close to mine and our lips almost touching (and sometimes light kissing - but this has only happened with a few dancers after repeat visits),... her hair cascading on my face,... her breast gently caressing my face,... the touch of her skin on my skin and her legs touching my legs,... the feel of her butt sitting on my lap (and yes, feeling her weight on my junk)...
So remind me exactly why you were interested in dating a dancer?
Phil ;)
charlie61
03-26-2009, 03:11 PM
Sex Work, Whores and Other Feminists, Jane Sexes It Up... All fabulous reads that address sex-radical feminism (or sex-positive feminism) in the sex industry.
jack0177057
03-26-2009, 04:52 PM
Sex Work, Whores and Other Feminists, Jane Sexes It Up... All fabulous reads that address sex-radical feminism (or sex-positive feminism) in the sex industry.
Thanks... I'll order them...:) I've read Flesh for Fantasy, Bare: The Naked Truth About Stripping, Candy Girl (not really a feminist book, but a fun read written by a Diablo Cody - a former dancer and recent Oscars academy award winner) and Promiscuities: A Secret History of Female Desire (not really a book about dancers, but about feminism and the expression of female sexuality). Another interesting book is Fast Girls: Teenage Tribes and the Myth of the Slut. It's not really about feminism per se, but about girl-on-girl verbal violence through the use of the word "slut" and the social ostracising that results when that label attaches to a girl.
charlie61
03-26-2009, 08:36 PM
^ Very cool! I have Flesh for Fantasy as well. Sex Work is a bit outdated, and it might be a little outside your realm of interest as it's definitely more about prostitution. But Whores and Other Femininsts is quite poignant, and Jane Sexes It Up provides really great perspectives on current 'anti-feminist' issues. It makes a place for feminism in our world.
jack0177057
03-27-2009, 08:20 AM
^ Very cool! I have Flesh for Fantasy as well. Sex Work is a bit outdated, and it might be a little outside your realm of interest as it's definitely more about prostitution. But Whores and Other Femininsts is quite poignant, and Jane Sexes It Up provides really great perspectives on current 'anti-feminist' issues. It makes a place for feminism in our world.
I think the prostitution debates - both ethical and legal - are very fascinating. While on the one hand, I can certainly see the need to protect poor and disenfranchised young women from being pushed into prostitution against their will by landlords, creditors, pimps, etc., I also think that in a post-feminist society, free and independent women should have the right to claim full ownership of their sexuality and express it however they see fit, and even profit financially from it. If the male-dominated porn industry is making billions of dollars from it, why can't a woman capitalize on her own sexuality?
Maybe the legal loophole for prostitution is to have video cameras recording the sexual acts and to charge a fee as a porn actress (not a prostitute). Of course, the problem then becomes that the customer keeps video. A licensing contract could provide certain restrictions on the use of the video (for example, private viewing only, no publication or duplication, etc.),... but not any guarantees. The actress may want to review and edit the video before giving it to the customer.
BTW - I enjoyed reading The Price: My Rise and Fall as Natalia, New York's #1 Escort.
So, if I show up to a feminist lit. class in college, am I likely to find you sitting in the next row? ;)
knp001
03-27-2009, 09:15 AM
I had a great relationship with a custie. Well, kinda custie. He came in as the sober cab, and he didn't tip, didn't buy dances, nothing. Which normally would piss me off, but he wasn't even looking at the stage.
but we had a really long chat, and we just clicked. he didn't look at me on stage though, and I thought he didn't like me. but the next day he came in and he asked for my number, which I actually gave to him. I have no idea why, I have never done that and probably never will again, but it was just something about him. he turned out to be the most fantastic guy ever.
I'm sorry, that was more ramble than anything. I guess in my case, it was more fate than anything. god, I sound like a nerd!! but really, that is what it was for me.
charlie61
03-27-2009, 10:26 AM
So, if I show up to a feminist lit. class in college, am I likely to find you sitting in the next row? ;)
I took Women's Studies 101, and that was enough for me. I go to a liberal college, but it was fairly obvious that topics like stripping/prostitution were considered anti-feminist endeavors...which pissed me off. Anyway, I think once you've taken one of those classes, you've pretty much taken them all. Most feminist lit revolves around the same basic ideas...
jack0177057
03-27-2009, 11:07 AM
I had a great relationship with a custie... he turned out to be the most fantastic guy ever.
I'm glad there are some positive stories to tell... Good for you!
he didn't tip, didn't buy dances, nothing... he wasn't even looking at the stage.
Hmmm... I think I'll try that approach... (just kidding :)). Actually, I have used the I-don't-even-notice-you approach with women outside the club. It seems that when a woman is used to getting a lot of attention from men, the best thing for a suitor to do is act oblivious to her... Talk to her friends and people around her, but pretend like she doesn't exist... She will become fascinated (or mystified) by that guy... Maybe she is challenged by him or made to feel insecure by his lack of attention. This is how I gained my ex-wife's interest, who was way out-of-my-league as far as looks go. (Not that I was ugly, but she was stunningly beautiful and drew a lot of male attention.)
jack0177057
03-27-2009, 11:28 AM
I think once you've taken one of those classes, you've pretty much taken them all. Most feminist lit revolves around the same basic ideas...
So you won't be in my class. :'( My interest is not just in feminism, but also human psychology,... specially female psychology... a very fascinating subject because it is so much more complex than male psychology. If I go back to college to get another degree, it will be in this area.
Have you ever heard about a psychological study that shows that female dancers can make up to twice as much when they are ovulating?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-4435.html
http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/cycle_effects_on_tips.pdf
Earl_the_Pearl
04-08-2009, 10:46 PM
Is it true that dancers will never date a customer?
Have you ever made an exception?
What, if anything, could a customer do to sweep you off your feet... romantically speaking?
Be careful of what you ask for you just might get it.
glambman
04-09-2009, 07:42 AM
I took Women's Studies 101, and that was enough for me. I go to a liberal college, but it was fairly obvious that topics like stripping/prostitution were considered anti-feminist endeavors...which pissed me off. Anyway, I think once you've taken one of those classes, you've pretty much taken them all. Most feminist lit revolves around the same basic ideas...
WOWZERS Aside from being delectable, you can think for yourself. :-*
callah44
04-09-2009, 02:59 PM
Jack, bro, most dancers make a very conscious effort at separating their life at the club from the rest of their existence. Never say never and all, but I would suggest you be tactful and honest but expect the same tact and honesty from the object of your affection.
Couldn't have put it better. ;)
charlie61
04-09-2009, 03:56 PM
WOWZERS Aside from being delectable, you can think for yourself. :-*
Oh yeah baby. OH yeah. 8)
Deini
01-05-2010, 02:07 AM
The first love of my life. I met him in a club.
It all been said before, and its all very simple. All Dancers are like hound dogs when it comes to sniffing out the men who are there to date you-and we obviously take full, shameless advantage, and then leave behind skid marks.
SO…While your are mooning over Her.
She is might be secretly crushing on that guy sitting with a client who only comes in once a blue moon. He is incredibly nice to all the girls, specially to you (due to generosity.) and never ever tries to find out any personal information, has genuine conversations, occasionally gives you compliments that are simple. Although he flirts, he does it tastefully, he never ever tries to put a hand on you, and has never even dreamed of asking you out. He might want to, but doesn’t.
After a few slaps, lady wanks, many Google searches on him, and sheer determination not think about him-you realised that he has successfully driven you up the walls. Then-in a weak moment-you cave in, instantaneously and just like magic you find a casual way to give him your number. You go out on a few dates-and he is a true gentleman.
He becomes your boyfriend; and has never returned to the club since he agreed to see you outside, nor does he brag about it to his friends, or tell anyone remotely connected to the club. As you get to know each other more, and fuck like monkeys in heat-he sees all your flaws, forgets that you’re a stripper, and falls in love.
Then…it ends…when…this bitch of a life decides to fuck-it up for you. And you swear…on your life…never again!
Then end.
mediocrity
01-05-2010, 02:35 AM
I will tell a story, Jack. It is likely the most prolific story of my eight and a half year dancing career.
I met M.N. Super Bowl Sunday of 2008. I was working the day shift at SRLV, and there was a large group of men sitting in the center of the room, watching the projection screen. I sat next to a redheaded man, trying to sell him, when a handsome man with dark eyes and shaggy dark hair came up and sat next to me. He touched my knee, and said "Hey. You're beautiful. I'm M. When can I spend some time alone with you?"
He had a boyish grin that made me melt with white, even teeth, perfect olive skin and dimples that'd make any girl stop in her tracks. I pitched the VIP, trying to maintain my composure and professionalism, and he agreed.
We spent five hours in the VIP, talking drinking- he didn't even ask me for a dance. I tried, and he waved me off saying "Oh, you don't have to do that", but whilst we talked, I did sit with my top off. He was so intelligent, handsome and respectful, I was hooked. I grabbed his phone, and put my number into it, despite my reservations- I am excellent at reading people and I knew he was Different.
The next day I went to Florida on vacation to see my baby sister, and he back to Los Angeles, Santa Monica to be precise. Over the next four days, we texted a total of 562 times. He booked a flight back to see me the day I got back.
I met him at the airport, nervous as all hell, feeling like I was going to throw up. He came out of the terminal, all smiles, and suddenly he was up in my space and I could smell his shampoo and aftershave.
He would come out every weekend after that, save one weekend I went to Santa Monica, and put us up in THEhotel at Mandalay Bay in a suite that cost more per night than my apartment cost in a month. Our first date was a dinner on the top floor of the Mandalay at MIX- it was $700 before tip, and he treated my best friend as well as myself; I was shocked but would later find out he was a millionaire hedge fund trader- even though he did appreciate it if I bought lunch or a round of afternoon beers, however low the price.
The first time I looked up online how much he had spent to see me I burst into tears.
He was the first time I ever broke the Rule. And even though we are not together today, I relive those moments in my mind and don't regret it for a second. What attracted me to him? His wit, his intelligence, his generosity, and how decidedly gentlemanly he was, and his gorgeous looks didn't hurt. He is 39, but looks 25. No one ever treated me better, and even though we grew apart, he is/was the most beautiful person I ever dated. Like, I'd excuse myself to go to class, I would come "home" several hours later to the hotel room, only to find he had made reservations at five of the most exclusive restaurants is LV, and ask me which one I preferred. He was just so willing to please and compromise, and never mentioned my occupation, that he made me feel like a Real Girl.
I wish him all the luck in the world. And there, I suppose, is my answer.
I should have married him.
jack0177057
01-05-2010, 12:42 PM
^^^
Wow, Med!... Sorry it didn't end in marriage. But hey, think of all the rich doctors you'll be meeting soon. I hope you find someone else that treats you like that... You deserve nothing less.