View Full Version : Fantasy vs. Reality
Raysworld
05-11-2009, 07:41 AM
I admit you have a point when you put it that way. A sensible guy doesn't believe that strippers like him, but strippers still like to try to make him believe he does (as in any sales situation). Since the guy doesn't know that she doesn't like him, he will often give her the benefit fo the doubt. People like to believe the best. I still get taken in by some good "girl next door" acts, which scarily switch off after they have my money.
Except - capitalism isn't deceptive or selfish, people are, thererore any system people use is also. Capitalism can be unselfish, since it is often in people's self-interests to be unselfish.
I also agree that SCs are inherently flawed. Business combined with unnatural sexual behaviour. Bad combo.
Even in their unselfishness they are selfish. Ergo, invisible hand theory...Nash equilibrium...prisinors dillema...game theory...
all innately selfish.
jack0177057
05-11-2009, 10:44 AM
Jack, i like you, and think you are one of the brighter posters on this board, but you seem to be in state of confusion or denial yourself.
You might be right,... my ego is alway trying to confuse me and trip me up... What's it up to now?...
You used to be egotistical, but have all of a sudden become non-egotistical as a result of this site?
I am always egotistical. If I sound non-egotistical, that is my ego trying to sound like it can transcend itself.
I do find your thoughts on the stripper/customer dynamic to be pretty well written from a macro perspective. But you and I both know there are deeper things at play here.
Look, if all a guys wants is tits, ass and pussy... He goes to a prostitute (the cost is about the same or less)... If he wants an ago-boost, he goes to a dancer...
Why? A prostitute (except for a high-priced call girl) is all business... You pay, you fuck,... you go... She doesn't sit on your lap, rub your neck and sweet-talk you for 30 or more minutes the way a dancer does... As far as sexual gratification... all you get from a dancer is tease... you end up going home to masterbate (unless you pay for extras or can cum in your pants during a lap dance)...
Prostitute = 100% sexual gratification & 15% ego-boost. Dancer = 15% sexual gratification & 100% ego-boost.
Everyman
05-11-2009, 12:10 PM
Look, if all a guys wants is tits, ass and pussy... He goes to a prostitute (the cost is about the same or less)... If he wants an ago-boost, he goes to a dancer....
I could not disagree more. I've never been to a prostitute, and I don't think I ever would. But I see tons of strippers specifically for the tits, ass, and pussy, not for ego-boost.
- do not want to risk arrest
- dancers are usually wayyyyy hotter than similar-priced pros
- don't want to stick my dick in a possibly diseased ho-bag
- I live in extremely high contact country
No, I'll stick with dancers, and no ego boost necessary, thank you.
jack0177057
05-11-2009, 12:41 PM
I could not disagree more. I've never been to a prostitute, and I don't think I ever would. But I see tons of strippers specifically for the tits, ass, and pussy, not for ego-boost.
- do not want to risk arrest
- dancers are usually wayyyyy hotter than similar-priced pros
- don't want to stick my dick in a possibly diseased ho-bag
- I live in extremely high contact country
No, I'll stick with dancers, and no ego boost necessary, thank you.
I'm not talking about crack-head streetwalkers,... I'm talking about "escorts". You'll pay $350 to $500 and get a very pretty and high quality young lady. She could be college student, etc... And collectively, they probably have less STDs than college sorrority girls, because they are very careful about using protection.
Everyman
05-11-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm not talking about crack-head streetwalkers,... I'm talking about "escorts". You'll pay $350 to $500 and get a very pretty and high quality young lady. She could be college student, etc... And collectively, they probably have less STDs than college sorrority girls, because they are very careful about using protection.
Well, I wouldn't know. I've never done it. Are you trying to sway me?
Anyway, I get pretty much up to the line I want where I go now.
chris91
05-11-2009, 02:27 PM
No, honestly, I don't think you are capable of understanding what im saying, and you keep reverting to defense tactics.
You are creating an illusion. You are creating an illusion because you are being deceptive.
Capitalism by nature is deceptive. Its selfish.
The problem isn't subject to your stripper bubble, its subject to consumerism and the premise of our society. The nature of strip clubs just magnifies that fact.
You get it now? Im saying that SCs are inherently flawed.
peace.
So the whole point of this was just to tell me that I'm deceptive and selfish, just like everyone else who wants to make money and pay their bills? You could have just said that in the first place instead of giving me a bunch of crap about the words and analogies that I chose.
I don't even know why you would feel it necessary to bring any of this up. I wasn't trying to say that creating an illusion to sell dances is not selfish or deceptive. I was just saying that we DO create illusion. You are just picking at my post and trying to be a pain in the ass.
datchapin
05-11-2009, 04:02 PM
Wow, it's amazing how long this thread lasted. Also how it got nowhere. I had thought about making an elaborate post, but then my time got swallowed up reading.
Everyman and Jack.... I think, the Ego is a part of Freud's mental construct. The strip club provides the ego no boost as the ego is the organized realistic aspect of this construct. You would most likely get an Id boost as that's the more instinctual aspect.
Anyways, bout this fantasy v. reality debate. The girls working in these places are as varied as the guys(and girls) that come in. What all the strippers have in common is that they are all contractors. The difference in the methods they use. They all sell the same thing (No I'm not about to argue about what that is, IF You don't know what it is make an opinion I don't care.) Anyways know that I'm about to generalize the shit out of this and there is a ton of grey area.
Reality, this is a chick that does enjoy her work to a degree (I know right, who woulda thunk ppl could like their work.) She'll sit with you scout you out get to know you what you're likes and dislikes are and perform accordingly.... BUT... she'll lay down ground rules demand respect and tell you where you can stick it, if you're an asshole. (Call me crazy, but these chicks are the most fun for me.) In return she'll sell you what she sells, if the deal goes down well on both sides, future business can be expected.
Fantasy, this is a chick that doesn't really understand what she does. She pulls on her experience though and begins encouraging vaugueness on the customers desires. She'll be vaugue about what she offers and even though the pitch may be incredible in the end the business will eventually dry up. (they can get away with it so why not right.)
If you wanna make an analogy on the fantasy chick to a contractor it would be like this. Contractor asks for half up front, then for a little bit more then so on and so on. in the end what was sold is unclear and the contractor still keeps the money, customer should have been smarter.
The lucky thing for strippers in this aspect is that the contracts are verbal and vague and can't be enforced in a court of law.
Wow, that was more than I thought I'd write, hope that cleared some things up.
rlams2000
05-11-2009, 04:45 PM
^^ Can someone translate?
JayATee
05-11-2009, 05:16 PM
^umm.... no.... /:O
jack0177057
05-11-2009, 05:18 PM
Everyman and Jack.... I think, the Ego is a part of Freud's mental construct. The strip club provides the ego no boost as the ego is the organized realistic aspect of this construct. You would most likely get an Id boost as that's the more instinctual aspect.
I was using "ego" in the vernacular... Not the Freudian "Ego". If we start applying Freudian theories,... we will end up talking about the dancers' penis envy and dancers that remind us of our mothers... Let's not go there... :O
rlams2000
05-11-2009, 05:31 PM
Dancers have penis envy? Well, that explains the crotch grab.
jack0177057
05-11-2009, 05:53 PM
Dancers have penis envy? Well, that explains the crotch grab.
No, they don't... And I don't want to have sex with my mother... Freud was an idiot... But, he must have been very entertaining at social gatherings... after a few drinks...
JayATee
05-11-2009, 05:56 PM
:laughing: This thread just keeps getting better and better.
rlams2000
05-11-2009, 06:07 PM
I'm going to ask my ATF if she has penis envy. But she doesn't remind me of my mother. I wonder what Freud would say? WWFS?
Hopper
05-12-2009, 05:36 AM
Yeah, we are prepared for it. It sucks when it happens, because it costs me money. More than that though, I just don't like seeing the look on a dudes face after I've rejected him. Customers irritate me sometimes, but I still really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I would prefer that they all leave happy and have sweet wet dreams about the sexy dancers who may or may not want to fuck them.
So if a patron asks you out after he's paid you, and he takes rejection well, you wouldn't mind him asking you out? To me it still appears a bit out of line to propostition a girl while she is naked on your lap. Unless she is openly flirting with the guy, in which case it still could wait untill after the LD. The reason I thought it would be awkward was just that rejecting the guy dispells the dancer's performance and whatever fantasising this prompts in the mind of the patron. However, some dancers don't even try to create any such illusions, so with them this would not be a reason.
jack0177057
05-12-2009, 08:37 AM
I'm going to ask my ATF if she has penis envy. But she doesn't remind me of my mother. I wonder what Freud would say? WWFS?
In a "post-feminist" culture... Freud might say you have vagina envy...
rlams2000
05-12-2009, 03:44 PM
^^ Maybe a lack of getting envy.
chris91
05-12-2009, 11:12 PM
So if a patron asks you out after he's paid you, and he takes rejection well, you wouldn't mind him asking you out?
I don't think that his actual ability to handle rejection has any effect on how I feel about being asked out. It's my own perception of how he handles it that makes it uncomfortable for me. To clarify, I'm only talking about normal guys who ask me on normal dates. Guys who ask me to fuck them are a different story. I never feel bad about turning them down.
To me it still appears a bit out of line to propostition a girl while she is naked on your lap. Unless she is openly flirting with the guy, in which case it still could wait untill after the LD. The reason I thought it would be awkward was just that rejecting the guy dispells the dancer's performance and whatever fantasising this prompts in the mind of the patron. However, some dancers don't even try to create any such illusions, so with them this would not be a reason.
I don't think it's more out of line to proposition a girl while she's naked than while she's clothed. Really, I don't think that it is out of line to proposition a dancer. It's stupid and annoying, but just asking once doesn't piss me off. What does piss me off is that dudes EXPECT me to say yes, and when I say no, they push and push and say things like, "We'll just go out as friends". Like begging and trying to manipulate me is so attractive that I'm going to change my answer and swoon.
vmurphy252
05-12-2009, 11:14 PM
^Begging isn't attractive? I've got to work on my game...
Hopper
05-13-2009, 05:26 AM
I don't think that his actual ability to handle rejection has any effect on how I feel about being asked out. It's my own perception of how he handles it that makes it uncomfortable for me. To clarify, I'm only talking about normal guys who ask me on normal dates. Guys who ask me to fuck them are a different story. I never feel bad about turning them down.
But say I don't look sad when I ask you out on a date and you turn me down. It's not a case of unrequited love or infatuation (necessarily), it's just a guy asking an attractive girl he met for her number. Nothing to get bent out of shape about.
I don't think it's more out of line to proposition a girl while she's naked than while she's clothed. Really, I don't think that it is out of line to proposition a dancer. It's stupid and annoying, but just asking once doesn't piss me off. What does piss me off is that dudes EXPECT me to say yes, and when I say no, they push and push and say things like, "We'll just go out as friends". Like begging and trying to manipulate me is so attractive that I'm going to change my answer and swoon.
A bit of pushing is understandable, and probably even flattering to some girls, especially if they are just playing hard to get. But begging is just confirmation that you made the right decision.
chris91
05-13-2009, 04:40 PM
But say I don't look sad when I ask you out on a date and you turn me down. It's not a case of unrequited love or infatuation (necessarily), it's just a guy asking an attractive girl he met for her number. Nothing to get bent out of shape about.
I see what you're saying, but by the time I see that the dude isn't upset about me saying no, the anxiety has already kicked in. It starts the second he asks me out. It's like a physical reaction for me that's more about the possibility of breaking a dudes heart that the reality of it actually happening. It's happens anytime that a guy I'm not interested in asks me out, inside or outside of the club.
glambman
05-13-2009, 10:25 PM
^^ Maybe a lack of getting envy.
Or the lack of getting entry.
Before anyone quotes or takes Kinsey's studies as fact, please read Kinsey: Crimes and Consequences by Dr. Judith Reisman
Hopper
05-14-2009, 03:12 AM
I see what you're saying, but by the time I see that the dude isn't upset about me saying no, the anxiety has already kicked in. It starts the second he asks me out. It's like a physical reaction for me that's more about the possibility of breaking a dudes heart that the reality of it actually happening. It's happens anytime that a guy I'm not interested in asks me out, inside or outside of the club.
What if you are interested in him, before he asks you? What sort of reaction do you get then?
Hopper
05-14-2009, 03:15 AM
Or the lack of getting entry.
Before anyone quotes or takes Kinsey's studies as fact, please read Kinsey: Crimes and Consequences by Dr. Judith Reisman
I've read "Kinsey, Sex and Fraud: Indoctrination of a People" by Judith Reisman et al.
chris91
05-14-2009, 01:27 PM
What if you are interested in him, before he asks you? What sort of reaction do you get then?
You mean if a guy that I like asks me out? I don't know, it's been too long since that happened.
jack0177057
06-08-2009, 08:10 AM
Here is a good example of reality vs. fantasy:
Reality:
Commanderadama has a beat up old Corvette and hangs out at the small town gas station trying to impress women with his car.
The formula is quite simple, figure out which type of girl you want, go to where that type hangs out, have money. A flashy car will get you lots of attention, exotic sports cars work well. If your from a small city a new Corvette will do, small town, new Mustang, big city you're gonna need a Porsche or better. I'm from a small city, my car's been hit on at the gas station, while BF is filling up his POS next to me, it's sad.
Fantasy:
Commanderadama is part of the jet-setting trustfund-baby crowd. He travels to private parties all over the globe and he dates international fashion models.
I go to Hed Kandi parties, mixed clubs (know what that means? haha, it's where the hottest my type girls are...) and upscale clubs which are usually mixed too. But I also "slum it", and feel comfortable with blue collar folks and I prefer women from that class. They just have a hard time dealing with my world as I don't do and am not interested in anything middle class. I have a library, I hate malls, Disneyland, Las Vegas and Hawaii. I won't eat at chains or buffets and my Favorite Vacation spots are Montreal, Nice, Monte Carlo, San Francisco & NYC.
lestat1
06-08-2009, 05:38 PM
It's kind of like when you see a great movie and get lost in the story. The fourth wall is gone. You're not thinking about your life, the work you have to do tomorrow, or any unhappinesses, you're just enjoying what you're doing in that moment. You're almost living vicariously through the characters on screen. The "fantasy" in the strip club is forgetting for one song at a time that I'm a single computer programmer that will never experience in real life the passion or beauty before me in the club. It's a pain-free moment where I get to experience a taste of things I can normally only fantasize about.
Fun stuff, eh? :dreams:
commanderadama
06-08-2009, 09:01 PM
Here is a good example of reality vs. fantasy:
Reality:
Commanderadama has a beat up old Corvette and hangs out at the small town gas station trying to impress women with his car.
Nope. LOL
Fantasy:
Commanderadama is part of the jet-setting trustfund-baby crowd. He travels to private parties all over the globe and he dates international fashion models.
Again, No. I have friends and relatives who work in the fashion & entertainment industries who get me in to parties/events. I meet all sorts. I have never dated a model or even hit on one, I'm nowhere near that good looking or rich. LOL I can afford to go to Europe once a year and my friends and relatives hook me up. Montreux Jazz fest is the bomb, meet Artists every year. Quincy was simply awesome. (Oops name drop, my bad) :P
Earl_the_Pearl
06-13-2009, 12:59 AM
The "fantasy" in the strip club is forgetting for one song at a time that I'm a single computer programmer that will never experience in real life the passion or beauty before me in the club.
It is real life not a dream. If you want to swap body fluids you just need more money and Playboy models can be yours.
http://www.wildbluffmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/ashley_massaro_01.jpg
Cyril
06-13-2009, 09:59 AM
But it is not really a fun when you have to pay for it. :)
hockeybobby
06-13-2009, 10:18 AM
We all pay for it....as has been said previously by Earl or someone. It is the power of the pussy.
Cyril
06-13-2009, 10:20 AM
We all pay for it....as has been said previously by Earl or someone. It is the power of the pussy.
I guess we all pay; it is just the form of the payment which differs.
hockeybobby
06-13-2009, 10:47 AM
Exactly sir.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-13-2009, 03:11 PM
I guess we all pay; it is just the form of the payment which differs.
Oh high class call girls will play the game with you and both can pretend it is not P4P. You arn't very old I ass/u/me.
Cyril
06-13-2009, 03:16 PM
I am quite old, in my late 30s. I just never had a call girl, high class or low class. Now that you have mentioned call girls, I realized they are just as fascinating as strippers. They go out in the dark of night to strange hotels to meet strange men. That is some intriguing profession.
Hopper
06-13-2009, 06:39 PM
^Not as intriguing as real romantic and sexual relationships. It's fake. Maybe you mean glamorous. Glamour just means illusion.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-13-2009, 07:36 PM
^Not as intriguing as real romantic and sexual relationships. It's fake. Maybe you mean glamorous. Glamour just means illusion.
Point of order; romantic no, sexual yes. A stiff dick doesn't need love.
Cyril
06-13-2009, 08:18 PM
I do not think it is glamorous. If they were actresses then yes.
I think I am just impressed??????
commanderadama
06-13-2009, 10:49 PM
^Not as intriguing as real romantic and sexual relationships. It's fake. Maybe you mean glamorous. Glamour just means illusion.
I don't know, I've got several "romantics" on the runway & I'd rather do pay for play. 8) You know we pay for them to go away right?
One married women I work with has starved herself onto the runway. Was a six, now a 2, new hair cut, I've complemented on both. She knows what I like and has made herself into it. This has happened before, I know the drama is gonna be bad. She'll wanna go back up to a six and whine that I don't "love her for her". But yeah, I'm probably gonna hit it, men can't run that fast. }:D
Hopper
06-14-2009, 01:56 AM
^You mean her normal weight is two and she was overweight at six? If that's the case, you do love her for her - being overweight is not a healthy state.
Underwieght women don't appeal to me. I expect you are only attracted to women who's normal weight is two.
(Whatever two and six are.)
Cyril
06-14-2009, 10:06 AM
I like slim women. Their bones must not be visible though. It turns me off.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 01:42 PM
I like slim women. Their bones must not be visible though. It turns me off.
I like them all; as long as they don't charge too much.
yoda57us
06-14-2009, 02:33 PM
I like them all; as long as they don't charge too much.
Exactly. When Boston's Combat Zone was in full swing fifteen or twenty years ago you could drive around the "track" and take your pick of beautiful women. Tall, short, thin, curvy, black, white, Hispanic, blond, brunette, red-heads you name it! There would be sometimes a hundred hookers working on a good night. The bottom line is that with that much choice price immediately becomes the primary selling point.
Street walking is not what it used to be but the selection is still just as good if you know where to look. Price is still the deciding factor for most guys.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 03:15 PM
Street walking is not what it used to be but the selection is still just as good if you know where to look. Price is still the deciding factor for most guys.
In North East New Jersey they have taken over the clubs; at least it keeps them off the street.
mediocrity
06-14-2009, 03:28 PM
^You mean her normal weight is two and she was overweight at six? If that's the case, you do love her for her - being overweight is not a healthy state.
Underwieght women don't appeal to me. I expect you are only attracted to women who's normal weight is two.
(Whatever two and six are.)
It really depends on height. Kim Kardashian is 5'2" and a size 2. Gisele Bundchen is 5"11 and a size 4. Gisele is visibly thinner, but Kim wears a smaller size. But, commander has stated 4 is hideous to him, so poor Gisele must be out of luck, but curvier Kim would be in.::)
http://stupidcelebrities.net/wp-content/kim_kardashian_bikini_photosmain.png
Kim
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2005/startracks/050110/gbundchen.jpg
Gisele
Cyril
06-14-2009, 03:40 PM
I like them all; as long as they don't charge too much.
And, I hate paying. I will not be very popular at a strip club. :)
Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 03:52 PM
And, I hate paying. I will not be very popular at a strip club. :)
Why would you go to a SC if you don't intend to pay?
Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 03:54 PM
http://stupidcelebrities.net/wp-content/kim_kardashian_bikini_photosmain.png
Kim
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2005/startracks/050110/gbundchen.jpg
Gisele
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/earlcamembert/Ihitit.jpg
Cyril
06-14-2009, 03:57 PM
Why would you go to a SC if you don't intend to pay?
I do not.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 04:07 PM
I do not.
But you are here. Come into the light; it is quick and easy and we won't tell your wife.