View Full Version : Just how rife is the abuse of strippers by customers?
mediocrity
05-11-2009, 06:51 AM
First of all, this post depresses me completely. I know I am not the guy you're talking about (when every dancer remembers me for being the "gentleman" (and cute ;-)) I assume that's a positive statement), but I think I feel gender guilt for you (and, by extension, all dancers with similar experiences) being treated like this.
However, there is such a fine line in the dynamic between customer and dancer. I, personally, have a bit of the classic romantic in me (not literally; Byron is not having sex with me), so I have to purposefully put a block up in my interactions, or I will fall in love/infatuation with EVERY dancer I come across. There's a Heinlein quote to the effect of, "A man can't love a single woman without loving all women to some extent" and I agree wholeheartedly. So I sometimes come across as cold because I am maintaining a professional distance (gentlemanly and cold are not mutually exclusive attitudes), but I am in no way mistreating the dancer I am with. I would almost say just practice the golden rule, but, in this particular situation, that doesn't work; you don't want to be done unto...
I am in very babbling mood this morning; I apologize. I guess I'm not going to come up with something to solve the male/female dynamic in 10 minutes this morning when no one has for the last million (6000 for creationists) years.
Mediocrity, I wish there was something you could do to get out of this situation. Your posts for the last few weeks have been very sad (not all, but enough of them). I do wish you luck.
Yeah, I do too. Sometimes I think I come across as a whiner, or That Dancer. I make plenty of money, I'm plenty stable, I don't let it out at work. The industry is way different now than when I started, and I guess a good many of us are shell shocked by it. I'm just trying to save as much as I can so when my 18 months are up, I'm good to go. Actually, it's almost down to 17!
Like I said, I just can't afford to give up the flexible hours or take a pay cut. Otherwise, I'd be the hell out of dodge. I guess I just try to be honest, and blow off steam instead of being OMGZ I HEART MY JOB. I envy people who do, but that isn't me. I miss my regulars, I miss having fun at work and cultivating friendships with my regulars. Unfortunately this is nearly a pipe dream in LV.
I bet you are a gentleman. You come across as very nice. :)
Raysworld
05-11-2009, 06:59 AM
lol. lady, I could give two flying fucks if you think im full of shit. Everything i've posted on this forum that requires statistical data is factual, and everything that you can differentiate between serious and joking is the truth.
Sad reality is: while maybe you think my internet persona is full of shit...well in retrospect, your real life is full of shit.
Maybe try getting a job that doesn't require so much abuse? Work as a mcdonalds hamburger-flipper for the first shift and then a taco-bell burrito maker for another. But you're not going to do that are you? You have to pay rent and for school...and some other shitty excuse...
There is nothing wrong with flipping burgers or making burritos. Its an honest living.
MarvelGirl
05-11-2009, 07:00 AM
Don't feel too bad about it mediocrity, Vegas is a tough town to work in. I admit that I can only work for 3 or 4 months at a time before I have to quit for awhile and regroup. If I didn't take those breaks, I think I would be at serious risk of hurting someone.
I don't come here to blow smoke up anyone's ass either, this is where I go to vent and take comfort in the fact that others understand why some of this crap pisses me off so badly. If some PL gets his feelings hurt because I'm not a nympho who just loves shaking my ass for him, that's too damn bad, they're not paying me to be here, so I'll just be myself.
mediocrity
05-11-2009, 07:01 AM
lol. lady, I could give two flying fucks if you think im full of shit. Everything i've posted on this forum that requires statistical data is factual, and everything that you can differentiate between serious and joking is the truth.
Sad reality is: while maybe you think my internet persona is full of shit...well in retrospect, your real life is full of shit.
Maybe try getting a job that doesn't require so much abuse? Work as a mcdonalds hamburger-flipper for the first shift and then a taco-bell burrito maker for another.
There is nothing wrong with flipping burgers or making burritos. Its an honest living.
You know what? I thanked you, and what I said was moderately tongue in cheek. I have already stated with my schooling schedule, I cannot afford to lose the flexible hours, or TAKE A PAY CUT.
You think telling someone who's having a rough time that their life is full of shit makes you a cool guy? It doesn't. It makes you a douchebag.
Hopper
05-11-2009, 07:04 AM
I don't think that was what she was saying. Dancers experience 100 times more abuse than customers, because we meet 100 customers for every 1 dancer that you meet. We are molested and insulted by customers on a regular basis over years and years. So yeah, some of us are cynical. You would be cynical too if you got kicked in the nuts 5 times a week by a different stripper each time, but that is not what is happening to you.
At least that's what I got from her post. She can speak for herself.
Didn't take that into account. Never really occurred to me. When I first got some poor treatment in a few SCs, I didn't really get why. I never saw much mishandling of dancers going on, and what I did see wasn't to do with me. I assumed that the dancers were mostly just resentful of doing what goes against female nature - catering to male sexual fantasies in a room full of males. Or thought maybe bitchy or unbalanced girls largely went for the job. Also thought maybe it was to do with their employers. But I didn't use it to justify mishandling girls myself. I didn't want to be at all involved in other people's emotional problems. It just made me more detached and wary. It was a disappointment, because strip clubs are portrayed in the media as places for fun, fantasy and letting your hair down, except when they are portrayed as seedy dives.
Crow2
05-11-2009, 07:07 AM
Yeah, I do too. Sometimes I think I come across as a whiner, or That Dancer. I make plenty of money, I'm plenty stable, I don't let it out at work. The industry is way different now than when I started, and I guess a good many of us are shell shocked by it. I'm just trying to save as much as I can so when my 18 months are up, I'm good to go. Actually, it's almost down to 17!
Like I said, I just can't afford to give up the flexible hours or take a pay cut. Otherwise, I'd be the hell out of dodge. I guess I just try to be honest, and blow off steam instead of being OMGZ I HEART MY JOB. I envy people who do, but that isn't me. I miss my regulars, I miss having fun at work and cultivating friendships with my regulars. Unfortunately this is nearly a pipe dream in LV.
I bet you are a gentleman. You come across as very nice. :)
Vegas is tough. I worked there for three years, had to stop going because it was turning my brain to mush. You are right on, this industry has changed from naughty fun to downright sleaze. It's gone from tight knit family type clubs ( staff and girls included ) to dog eat dog type environments.
You'll be okay. You know how this goes with it's ups and downs. Try not to let it get to you so much. Have some Mac and Cheese. It'll be otay Buc'wheat. :D
Raysworld
05-11-2009, 07:09 AM
You know what? I thanked you, and what I said was moderately tongue in cheek. I have already stated with my schooling schedule, I cannot afford to lose the flexible hours, or TAKE A PAY CUT.
You think telling someone who's having a rough time that their life is full of shit makes you a cool guy? It doesn't. It makes you a douchebag.
No, i think telling someone that is clearly having a rough time in life that they can do better, and that doing the same thing in life makes them full of shit makes me a cool guy.
vmurphy252
05-11-2009, 07:09 AM
Well, I feel like a kiss-ass/teacher's pet now.
Just to balance things out: "You're all bitches and only live to serve the needs of men! Go fix me a turkey pot pie.";D
SerenaSin
05-11-2009, 07:13 AM
These guys have done a good job derailing the topic. Let's get it back on track.
I've only been working as a dancer for a total of 7 days, haven't had any abuse thus far, luckily.
In NC because of the liquor laws we keep bottoms on, there's no hard liquor in the club, no champagne room/private VIP booths (our VIP is a room with a number of couches and chairs, and there's always a bouncer standing right there, very little privacy... we can touch the guys in there but they cant touch us), guys are technically supposed to put the money in our garters and not our thongs (though the rule gets broken a lot), guys can't touch us when we're on stage, and we do air-dances out on the floor.
I'm wondering if these strict rules are what's preventing a lot of the non-consensual touching, fingering, groping and other forms of assault/abuse I hear about from other dancers on this board....or if I just haven't been working there long enough to really gauge things...or if it's just my club...
In any case I'm glad I started dancing AFTER I left Miami :P
Hopper
05-11-2009, 07:21 AM
I'm not justifying anything. I'm sick to death of people telling me and acting like they know everything there is to know about my job. You and other customers don't.
You only know what you have read here ( and that's not even the whole story ) and for you or anyone else to be critical about what you have read - without firsthand knowledge and or doing it yourself is beyond ridiculous.
Plus your snarky little struck a nerve comment was unneeded.
I don't come into McDonald's and tell you how to flip your burgers or how to better your work environment.
Be a customer
Why don't you try working on bettering that.
I don't claim to know. I didn't criticise anyone's personal accounts. Sorry for the snarky comment. I didn't understand what all the fuss was. I am a good customer.
Raysworld
05-11-2009, 07:27 AM
I don't claim to know. I didn't criticise anyone's personal accounts. Sorry for the snarky comment. I didn't understand what all the fuss was. I am a good customer.
or don't be one at all.
strip clubs are fucking pathetic.
peace.
Hopper
05-11-2009, 07:38 AM
or don't be one at all.
strip clubs are fucking pathetic.
peace.
I agree. That's a reason I'm good. Why ask for more trouble than I already have in them? Don't worry - I'm not a regular. A bit of pathetic is amusing once in a while.
Dirty Ernie
05-11-2009, 07:48 AM
[quote=Raysworld;1803865]im full of shit.
Sad reality is:my life is full of shit.[quote]
Ray, maybe you should stop suckling at the teat of your parents success and get your own life. You're 25, you have a degree in physics (allegedly) gathering dust, didn't have to work while you were in college, and once you graduated you went right back to the nipple.
You trade on your parents' success like it's your own. You're older than alot of the dancers on here and if you had to fend for yourself, you know, like a grown-up, you would be working fast food. Why don't you move out of the basement, try to get a job in your field, and get some real life experience under your belt. And while your at it, take your attitude, your upscale Hooters idea and all your entitlement, rich kid BS, pack'em up your ass and GTFOH.
I thought you Goodbye Cruel Worlded us once already. Try to stick with it this time, k?
chris91
05-11-2009, 02:34 PM
No, i think telling someone that is clearly having a rough time in life that they can do better, and that doing the same thing in life makes them full of shit makes me a cool guy.
Dude. I'm gonna lay some truth on you right now: You're a jackass.
rlams2000
05-11-2009, 05:25 PM
Back on subject. Is abusive customer behavior a daily occurrence? The money must be pretty damn good to put up with strangers trying to molest you every time you go to work.
Paris
05-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Back on subject. Is abusive customer behavior a daily occurrence? The money must be pretty damn good to put up with strangers trying to molest you every time you go to work.
This depends on the location, the club management, the dancer and the atmosphere in which the dancer must work (extras or no). Yes, the money is good. Especially considering that many regions of the US are into double digit unemployment. Trying to even find a job in this economy is quite daunting for many people, much less an exotic dancer with no recent relevant resume qualifications.
Women in the Middle East work as prostitutes, with the treat of death if caught and arrested. Anyone who calls women the "weaker sex" doesn't understand how to measure strength.
commanderadama
05-12-2009, 09:06 PM
I agree. That's a reason I'm good. Why ask for more trouble than I already have in them? Don't worry - I'm not a regular. A bit of pathetic is amusing once in a while.
I don't get it, what do you mean by pathetic? I don't find them pitiful, sad or absurd.
I see them as a place to go to totally objectify women. I like the waifs, some like the Barbies, others like Asians, big booty blacks. Whatever you like is on the menu, and in Canada (the only place I'll go to a strip club) everything you want is on the menu. Although it is annoying that you have to pretend to take an interest in them. They always want to tell you why they're doing it, like we care. That's nice honey, I think you'll do great things with an MBA, now shake your ass for daddy. :D
Some people like to blow $500 on gambling, some on hobbies, me I like to fondle some skinny 20 somethings. Too each their own, nothing pathetic about it as far as I'm concerned.
firemaiden04
05-12-2009, 10:42 PM
I don't get it, what do you mean by pathetic? I don't find them pitiful, sad or absurd.
I see them as a place to go to totally objectify women. I like the waifs, some like the Barbies, others like Asians, big booty blacks. Whatever you like is on the menu, and in Canada (the only place I'll go to a strip club) everything you want is on the menu. Although it is annoying that you have to pretend to take an interest in them. They always want to tell you why they're doing it, like we care. That's nice honey, I think you'll do great things with an MBA, now shake your ass for daddy. :D
Some people like to blow $500 on gambling, some on hobbies, me I like to fondle some skinny 20 somethings. Too each their own, nothing pathetic about it as far as I'm concerned.
I never fucking want to bring that shit up. I don't go up to guys and start telling them my life story...I just ask how they're doing, if they're having fun, whatever. Then they start asking how come I do this, or what does my boyfriend think about me dancing, etc. Why do they care? I think a lot of guys want to feel like they're objectifying us, cause otherwise they feel weird. And I'm sure lots of strippers are, indeed, just objectified women. I believe that's a mindset. If you feel forced to strip, if it's a last resort, if you can't do it without drinking or doing drugs, if you can't maintain a solid boundary during your dances, if you have depression issues about what you do, then I think you're objectified.
I am not.
I have not sacrificed any of my integrity doing this job. I love my work. I have fun. I do this because I enjoy it and I make good money, and I think in 30 years I can look back on this and say, "Damn right. I was HOT." I've always wanted to do this, and here I am. I've never sucked dick or given a hand job or let a customer grab me ANYWHERE. So, I don't feel objectified. I'm sorry if guys don't like to think that, but that's their problem.
chris91
05-12-2009, 11:15 PM
Although it is annoying that you have to pretend to take an interest in them. They always want to tell you why they're doing it, like we care.
Are you joking? I can't tell.
Golden_Rule
05-13-2009, 02:19 AM
Wtf, dude? This thread is about customers abusing dancers. You just keep coming in here saying "Yeah, well strippers are bad too!" .
Aw, jeeze... if that is what you are hearing than you aren't actually listening to what I am saying.
What I am NOT saying is "Strippers are bad too."
What I AM saying. "These are horrible things that happen because people, not customers, not dancers, PEOPLE are creating an environment that is ripe for it to take place in."
PEOPLE can change that. If the PEOPLE in strip-clubs would approach this mutual thing of ours with a little compassion toward one another, instead of each trying to get over on the other, it would create an environment not suitable to things like what happened to Mediocrity [which should never have happened].
Don't tell me it wouldn't work because I've seen it work. In neighborhoods they stopped the graffiti, the riff-faff hanging out and the petty drug dealing and all the things that made the neighborhood ugly; the prostitution, rape, robberies, burglaries, assaults all went down statistically.
IF you clean up the ENVIORMENT the rest of the stuff follows suit... that is ALL I am saying.
And I was a cop for christ sake, I have the utmost empathy for someone who got ripped off.
PS: I have worked in the industry. Just not as a dancer. [Manager/bouncer]
And, as I have stated above, IF what I suggested above was to become the order of business daily in strip-clubs [ie, customers and dancers alike stopped looking to get over on each other] it would work PRECISELY as I desciribed above. Just as it has worked in neighborhoods all over this country when applied to them. Get rid of the trouble makers and the mess they make and the REAL crime has no room to breath and finds another place to be.
[b]Sorry... just frustrated at being misunderstood.
Golden_Rule
05-13-2009, 02:26 AM
You may be Captian Save-a-Ho, but I don't have the super hero gene.;)
You are reading me totally wrong. I can't save a soul. I'd just like it if a little common sense could be applied and save us ALL. How else would you expect someone whose seen as much human misery as I have to feel on the subject of misery in general?
ETA: Have you ever been to Alaska? It's a lawless frontier in many regards.
No, and maybe it is but probably not much more than in Sopranoland on the frontiers of Newark/Irvington.
Golden_Rule
05-13-2009, 02:43 AM
Goldenrule, if you really want to help, then stop offering unsolicited vague useless advice on the internet.
Please stop to consider that these are not difficulties particularly specific to strip-clubs but to human dynamics and communities in general. An area of study I do know something about, where I have been directly involved - as an administrator - in establishing not unsolicited, vague and useless advice, but specific plans to counter and cause to cease problems of ongoing criminality.
Do you think that the things that cause criminality to stop in a neighborhood are so much different from that which causes it to stop in a strip-club? [BTW, the theory and the practical are well documented. Much of it based on the "Broken Windows" concept of James Q. Wilson in which he postulated that if you want to get rid of criminal activity in a neighborhood, first fix all the broken windows. Meaning if you make a neighborhood look and feel like a place that crime doesn't belong, crime goes away. That is all I am suggesting to do in S-C's.]
I've laid out the idea, the logic I think backs it up and the example that its worked every place else its been applied; and now the reason I think I may, just may mind you, have a clue about how to put a dent in criminal behavior [and that is what abuse is, criminal behavior].
Golden_Rule
05-13-2009, 02:53 AM
I agree that we should not be focusing on abuse of customers. However, if people wish to discuss reasons and remedies for the abuse of dancers (also not directly to do with the initial question), then this along with other factors should be discussed in conjunction with it.
And just a last comment and a reminder on my way out of this thread... PRECISELY my initial point.
Nothing exists in a vacuum. One is related, both directly and indirectly, to the other. If you want to effectively discuss how to deal with one you need to include both.
The analogy wasn't meant to prove that GR said that dancers deserve anything. It was meant to demonstrate how insensitive and rude his comments about mediocrity being robbed were. It was a "put yourself in her shoes" kind of analogy.
And your mistake was in thinking my post was some kind of justification of what happened to Mediocrity instead of seeing it as the the lament that such could happen to ANYONE in a S-C that it was; with a suggestion on what might be done to make it so such things wouldn't happen as easily as they do.
That's my piece and I've said it.
wishing well...
Hopper
05-13-2009, 05:06 AM
I don't get it, what do you mean by pathetic? I don't find them pitiful, sad or absurd.
I see them as a place to go to totally objectify women. I like the waifs, some like the Barbies, others like Asians, big booty blacks. Whatever you like is on the menu, and in Canada (the only place I'll go to a strip club) everything you want is on the menu. Although it is annoying that you have to pretend to take an interest in them. They always want to tell you why they're doing it, like we care. That's nice honey, I think you'll do great things with an MBA, now shake your ass for daddy. :D
Some people like to blow $500 on gambling, some on hobbies, me I like to fondle some skinny 20 somethings. Too each their own, nothing pathetic about it as far as I'm concerned.
LOL - move that thing, baby, you want me to call again.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek about that. Ray has a point. It IS pathetic to go and pay a girl to undress and let you touch her. Many of the girls who work there think that. But it's also nice to have a pretty naked girl dancing for you no strings. It's noce to watch a good strip tease on stage. It's nice to watch girls working the room in lingerie.
Other pathetic things I had in mind were aspects of the often seedy reality inside SCs, the way it's conducted by patrons, staff and management.
I am interested to know about the stuff you mentionned. I don't care, since I only see the girl for twenty minutes and after that probably never, but it's interesting to know about what goes on with the girls who do this.
mediocrity
05-13-2009, 01:01 PM
And your mistake was in thinking my post was some kind of justification of what happened to Mediocrity instead of seeing it as the the lament that such could happen to ANYONE in a S-C that it was; with a suggestion on what might be done to make it so such things wouldn't happen as easily as they do.
Maybe you worded it badly, because quite a few people, myself included, took it that way.
Eros_6934
05-13-2009, 03:04 PM
I'm amazed at how everyone keeps referring to the "bitchy strippers." Maybe I'm lucky here in Indy, but I rarely talk to any girls that are just bitchy. The hustlers are easy enough to spot, and I usually just give a polite, "No thanks", but I've never had one be a bitch to me. .
I try to be as respectful as I can and usually end up having a great conversation with a girl that I click with, while realizing she's there to earn and I'm there to be entertained.
Maybe it's just because of the topic of this particular thread, but the overall tone kind of bothered me.
Golden_Rule
05-13-2009, 03:24 PM
Maybe you worded it badly, because quite a few people, myself included, took it that way.
If that is the case I am sorry both for making you feel bad AND for muddling my point which I believe to be important to anyone who would like to see things in S-Cs get better.
I trust that since I've taken steps to clear that up you see where I am actually going with this. It is within the power of people who make up any environment to effect it and cause change.
Its not simply the management, or the dancers, or the customers. If any one pushed hard enough the other two would have to follow. Make it two and that makes it easier and the third has to come along.
It is how such things work, IF [big if] it is wanted bad enough.
commanderadama
05-13-2009, 04:45 PM
It IS pathetic to go and pay a girl to undress and let you touch her.
We'll have to agree to disagree as I think men who have submissive LTRs with women pathetic. :)
I'm not talking about the men who respectfully "wear the pants". Like some of my friends who are in LTRs DO NOT ask for permission to do anything, they just tell their SO as a courtesy. But these are VERY rare.
More common are the men who get vetoed by their SO and I think that is pitiful. You know the losers with "Yes Dear" in their vocabulary? Now that's what I call PATHETIC!
Paying a pretty little thing to get naked and let me feel her up? I call that awesome! (Commander Breaks into Oh Canada!)
================================================== ====
But getting back to the abuse issue, I see it as a price of doing business. A strip club is Kinda like the UFC octagon, only the refs are always distracted or don't care so my advice is to protect yourself at all times ladies.
One thing I have noticed is that too many men, like myself, are misogynists. But unlike me don't know it. Therefore, there is no check on their behavior in public. These guys are easy to spot, they call the strippers "whores" or similar derogatory terms. Seriously ladies if you could hear what's said in the bathroom. And it's the same shit in the regular bars, especially the hip hop clubs. It's so bad now I go to the mix clubs when I want to dance. As an aside, HD-Net reports that LA has over 12000 rape kits sitting in freezers waiting to be tested. I think that says we don't give a damn about woman. One woman fought and fought to get her kit tested over many years, when it finally got tested, it was past the statute of limitations. Now that's pathetic...
Now I'm 40 and a lost cause, my only interest in women is for sex, I just cannot see myself trusting a woman again but for so much of the younger generation to be in my mind set is well... distubing. :(
commanderadama
05-13-2009, 05:16 PM
Are you joking? I can't tell.
I meant it to be funny, but I'm serious. I really don't care why most of the girls I dance with are doing it, none of my friends care either.
If I wanted to feign interest in the girl, I'd go to a real bar. Black Widow's post in the contact thread in stripping, that explains me and my friends to a T.
This is the excerpt (I hope it's OK to post this but it's so spot on as most her posts are...)
Plus--and now, many people will disagree with me on this--but I personally think that MOST men that come into strip clubs come in to see, feel, grab and rub against female bodies. They DON'T come in looking for some girl to talk to them for hours, or some chick to play mind games with them, because they could go to a bar and find that. Hell, most of their wives or girlfriends fuck with them in the head and flirt then don't put out and that's why they come to strip clubs IN THE FIRST PLACE. Men come in to touch and feel and be sexual with women, because they can't get that anywhere else, and when you allow them to really do that, i.e. TOUCH you, they will spend more and they will come back more often. I may be wrong on this but since women manipulate and play mind games with men ALL THE TIME in real life, I just think that the LAST THING men want when they come into a strip club is to have to go through that YET AGAIN. They just want straightforward, no nonsense, female nudity and female sexuality.
chris91
05-13-2009, 05:23 PM
What I am NOT saying is "Strippers are bad too."
well it sure sounded that way.
If the PEOPLE in strip-clubs would approach this mutual thing of ours with a little compassion toward one another...
I'm not sure what you mean by "get over on". I'm going to assume that you're talking about dudes who refuse to pay for services rendered, girls who overcharge for dances, and things of that nature. Not dudes who grab ass because they think it's allowed and management hasn't done their job in letting them know that it isn't, or girls who lie about their relationship status in the hopes of selling a dance. Correct me if I'm wrong.
IF you clean up the ENVIORMENT the rest of the stuff follows suit... that is ALL I am saying.
That is what I'm saying too. You clean up the environment by enforcing the rules and getting rid of the people, dancers or customers, who break them. That responsibility falls to management, bouncers and cops. It is not my job to kick dudes out for trying to finger my asshole.
The customers and dancers who are trying to "get over on" each other are not going to just stop doing that in order to change the environment. They like the environment just the way it is, because it allows them to do what they want. It is up to management, bouncers and cops to MAKE them stop.
It sounds to me like you are saying "If people would stop being assholes, then people would stop being assholes."
chris91
05-13-2009, 05:36 PM
I meant it to be funny, but I'm serious. I really don't care why most of the girls I dance with are doing it, none of my friends care either.
Oh I know you don't care. I wouldn't expect you to. I was talking about the implication that we expect you to care. I think that most of us would happy and relieved to find a customer that just came out and said, "Listen, I don't want to hear about your bullshit. Just give me a dance."
I'm sure that 99% of people in general don't give a crap about what I do when I'm not at work, or how many pets I have. They ask me about that shit anyway, I assume in an attempt to make me think that they are genuinely nice guys that might be worth fucking some day, or maybe just to make conversation. I answer their questions in an attempt to make them feel connected to me in a way that makes my nudity less weird, or sometimes just to make conversation.
What a wonderful thing it would be if they could just say, "Shutup and dance for me." and I could just say, "I don't want to chit chat with you, so just buy a dance."
chris91
05-13-2009, 05:53 PM
Now I'm 40 and a lost cause, my only interest in women is for sex, I just cannot see myself trusting a woman again but for so much of the younger generation to be in my mind set is well... distubing. :(
You are not a lost cause. Take the money you spend in strip clubs, and get some therapy. It's irrational to mistrust half of the worlds population based on their gender. It's even more twisted to be aware of your mistrust and do nothing to change it. Being alive for 40 years does not make it acceptable or irreparable. I mean, if you had an operable tumor in your kidney, you wouldn't just sit around going, "Oh well, I guess I'm just gonna wither and die." would you? No, you'd go to a doctor and get help.
Also, I'm sure you'd get better, cheaper (maybe even free!) sex, and more of it, if you worked out your issues with women.
firemaiden04
05-13-2009, 07:31 PM
Am I the only one who is getting really, really sick of every post made in Customer Comments turning into some misogynistic argument?
CuriousB
05-14-2009, 12:09 AM
I must say, I'm not particularly happy with the direction this thread has taken. Just seeing how broken some of your customers are has given me a new appreciation for what you ladies do. Even the "nice guys" around here seem slightly unhinged. It makes me wonder just how fucked up I am.
Golden_Rule
05-14-2009, 12:20 AM
well it sure sounded that way.
I'm not sure what you mean by "get over on". I'm going to assume that you're talking about dudes who refuse to pay for services rendered, girls who overcharge for dances, and things of that nature. Not dudes who grab ass because they think it's allowed and management hasn't done their job in letting them know that it isn't, or girls who lie about their relationship status in the hopes of selling a dance. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That is what I'm saying too. You clean up the environment by enforcing the rules and getting rid of the people, dancers or customers, who break them. That responsibility falls to management, bouncers and cops. It is not my job to kick dudes out for trying to finger my asshole.
The customers and dancers who are trying to "get over on" each other are not going to just stop doing that in order to change the environment. They like the environment just the way it is, because it allows them to do what they want. It is up to management, bouncers and cops to MAKE them stop.
It sounds to me like you are saying "If people would stop being assholes, then people would stop being assholes."
No, I am speaking about something very specific that has been used in major cities all over the US. It started back in the 80's and is directly responsible for the major decrease in crime that was witnessed in big cities from then to the present.
Like I said it is based on the "Broken Windows" concept first promoted by James Q. Wilson. It says that if you clean up an environment you make it difficult for crime to take place in it. In a neighborhood you fix the broken windows, clean up the graffiti, paint and fix, etc and create a place that feels like crime doesn't belong in it.
You see it goes to precisely what you were talking about when you said people want it that way because they can "do what they want". Well doing what I suggest makes those people feel uncomfortable in the new environment so they leave.
It really boils down to everyone who wants change being either part of the solution or part of the problem and NOT passing it off to someone else by saying "they have to deal with it because its their job, not mine."
Probably more than you want to know but if you are interested:
here is a bit on James Q. Wilson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Q._Wilson
And an Atlantic Montly article by Wilson and Kelling on the subject:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/_atlantic_monthly-broken_windows.pdf
wishing well...
Golden_Rule
05-14-2009, 12:23 AM
Am I the only one who is getting really, really sick of every post made in Customer Comments turning into some misogynistic argument?
Well don't lump me in with that. I am pro PEOPLE and since women are people that makes me pro them.
People's Lib!
chris91
05-14-2009, 12:31 AM
Well doing what I suggest makes those people feel uncomfortable in the new environment so they leave.
What are you suggesting we fix? Fill in the blank:
Broken windows are to a crime ridden neighborhood what ______ is to a strip club.
Also, how exactly do you propose that we fix that thing? Be specific.
CuriousB
05-14-2009, 01:22 AM
What are you suggesting we fix? Fill in the blank:
Broken windows are to a crime ridden neighborhood what ______ is to a strip club.
Also, how exactly do you propose that we fix that thing? Be specific.
I think what he is tryimg to say is that house rules need to be rigidly enforced by large scary men with an iron first. So if yhe house rule is "No touching" and a bouncer sees a dancer sitting on a custies lap and he has his hand around her waist he must warn the dancer and custie even if they are both comfortable with the situation. Basically a zero tolerance approach to enforcing the rules since human nature seems to be broken.
One thing I would like to know is what he means by strippers abusing customers? If it is strippers overcharging then it is a case of caveat emptor - you aren't dealing with girlscouts.
JayATee
05-14-2009, 01:56 AM
Now I'm 40 and a lost cause, my only interest in women is for sex, I just cannot see myself trusting a woman again but for so much of the younger generation to be in my mind set is well... distubing. :(
Why? It's you (collective not you specific) that's raising them. If your (again collective) kids see that you only want women for sex how do you think that's going to effect them? Of course they're going to feel the same way, that's what they're being taught, and it's by ppl like you, the self proclaimed misogynists of the world, that are royally fucking up the younger generation.
JayATee
05-14-2009, 02:02 AM
I think what he is tryimg to say is that house rules need to be rigidly enforced by large scary men with an iron first. So if yhe house rule is "No touching" and a bouncer sees a dancer sitting on a custies lap and he has his hand around her waist he must warn the dancer and custie even if they are both comfortable with the situation. Basically a zero tolerance approach to enforcing the rules since human nature seems to be broken.
This is as likely to happen as guys (in general) respecting dancers as ladies and keeping their hands, dicks and anything else they feel necessary to whip out of their pockets to themselves.
Although I don't understand why that's so hard.
you aren't dealing with girlscouts.
Exactly what does that mean?
CuriousB
05-14-2009, 02:29 AM
This is as likely to happen as guys (in general) respecting dancers as ladies and keeping their hands, dicks and anything else they feel necessary to whip out of their pockets to themselves.
Although I don't understand why that's so hard.
Exactly what does that mean?
That was not intended to be a blanket statement but the sex industry does attract its fair share of opportunists and cynics and misanthropes on both sides of the fence, customers and performers. Sadly while the men are pretty much limited to financial losses it is the performers who are subjected to a lot worse things.
Hopper
05-14-2009, 03:33 AM
That is what I'm saying too. You clean up the environment by enforcing the rules and getting rid of the people, dancers or customers, who break them. That responsibility falls to management, bouncers and cops. It is not my job to kick dudes out for trying to finger my asshole.
The customers and dancers who are trying to "get over on" each other are not going to just stop doing that in order to change the environment. They like the environment just the way it is, because it allows them to do what they want. It is up to management, bouncers and cops to MAKE them stop.
It sounds to me like you are saying "If people would stop being assholes, then people would stop being assholes."
As far as I can tell that is what GR's idea amounts to, but you are yourself asking management to stop being assholes, and in the worst accounts of abuse in this thread it is the complicity of management which allows and even encourages that abuse.
Like CommanderAdama said, it is basically the price of doing business and the girls ultimately must look after themselves, even if officially it is not their job.
Hopper
05-14-2009, 03:40 AM
I must say, I'm not particularly happy with the direction this thread has taken. Just seeing how broken some of your customers are has given me a new appreciation for what you ladies do. Even the "nice guys" around here seem slightly unhinged. It makes me wonder just how fucked up I am.
Please elaborate on this using my posts for examples. Assuming you class me as nice and not broken.
Hopper
05-14-2009, 03:52 AM
...
I'm sure that 99% of people in general don't give a crap about what I do when I'm not at work, or how many pets I have. They ask me about that shit anyway, I assume in an attempt to make me think that they are genuinely nice guys that might be worth fucking some day, or maybe just to make conversation. I answer their questions in an attempt to make them feel connected to me in a way that makes my nudity less weird, or sometimes just to make conversation.
...
You are right, we would like you to leave open the possibility of you fucking us - the fact that we paid you to dance naked for us tells you that. But there are other reasons for talking. I can't help being interested in knowing something about any attractive girl - and she has to be very attractive for me to pay the prices you charge. The woman's voice and personality are part of the erotic package, so just talking adds to the experience. Though I'd be happy to pay more attention to the other senses in silence. Like you say, conversation does make us more at ease with touching a strange naked woman dancing on our laps. It's like when you are in a lift with another person you don't know. I don't care what the girl wants - if I want to talk for any reason, I talk. She doesn't really want to be there at all anyway, so what she wants isn't an issue.
CuriousB
05-14-2009, 04:10 AM
Here is your example:
Like CommanderAdama said, it is basically the price of doing business and the girls ultimately must look after themselves, even if officially it is not their job.
No sane human being would think that being periodically sexually assaulted is or ever should be the price of doing business in any industry. No matter what the percieved slight, this is unacceptable.
Hopper
05-14-2009, 04:23 AM
Here is your example:
No sane human being would think that being periodically sexually assaulted is or ever should be the price of doing business in any industry. No matter what the percieved slight, this is unacceptable.
I didn't say it should be, just that it is. I'm not the one that decides. If you put a naked girl on the laps of fifty guys, fact is one of them will be a jerk and go off-limits. It's the nature of this industry. Note that I said the dancers should look after themselves, not consent to groping and BJs.
Dirty Ernie
05-14-2009, 07:47 AM
No, I am speaking about something very specific that has been used in major cities all over the US. It started back in the 80's and is directly responsible for the major decrease in crime that was witnessed in big cities from then to the present.
Like I said it is based on the "Broken Windows" concept first promoted by James Q. Wilson. It says that if you clean up an environment you make it difficult for crime to take place in it. In a neighborhood you fix the broken windows, clean up the graffiti, paint and fix, etc and create a place that feels like crime doesn't belong in it.
Well doing what I suggest makes those people feel uncomfortable in the new environment so they leave..
This is the problem with the "Broken Window " concept. You're not reducing crime, you're just moving it out of your view. Similar to cities giving the homeless one-way bus tickets to a different city in which they have a relative and claiming they reduced homelessness in their city. You aren't effecting any real change nor are you doing anything to eliminate the root causes of the problem.
And there is a vastness as wide as the ocean, between changing an undesirable environment physically, ie, cleaning an area up, and changing the behavior of bad actors.
hockeybobby
05-14-2009, 10:37 AM
Damn, there is a lot of bullshit in this thread.
Crow2
05-14-2009, 10:41 AM
Damn, there is a lot of bullshit in this thread.
Dude, you just made me spit java all over my keyboard! ;D
SerenaSin
05-14-2009, 11:24 AM
Although it is annoying that you have to pretend to take an interest in them. They always want to tell you why they're doing it, like we care. That's nice honey, I think you'll do great things with an MBA, now shake your ass for daddy. :D
.
hahaha really?? I WISH I never had to waste my time making the same bullshit chit-chat spiel with every damn customer that I want to dance for. But practically EVERY customer I approach wants to make me sit with them beforehand for as long as humanly possible and hear my life story (and give me theirs!), as if that has anything to do with how well I shake my ass in their face or grind on their lap. They'll promise me they'll buy a dance in "10 minutes" or "after a few more beers" or "after my stage set" (which might be 45 minutes from then!) and bug me to sit with them til then.
Your comment is just very strange to me, is all...