View Full Version : Question for customers ?
princessjas
06-30-2009, 04:46 PM
^^^I don't know about the ability to control those urges. When I hear grown men defending the urge instead of saying it is something that occassionally flashes into their heads before being quickly squashed....what I'm hearing is "I'm going to/want to act on this urge." and the only thing holding me back is the possibility of prosecution. Am I misreading this? I know I certainly wouldn't defend something so vehemently if it was only a passing thought.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-30-2009, 06:04 PM
Telling another male poster who brags about how the economic downturn has forced more dancers to resort to extras that he's "glad he's getting his money's worth."Let us look at the exact quote.
From those that profit from the industry it has hurt big time; form a PL stand point things couldn't be better.I don't see bragging or any mention of "extras". I meant that customers are being treated more like customers instead of something to be used and discarded.
It appears some see trolls that are not there.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-30-2009, 06:14 PM
I also believe that our intellect overrides our instincts barring extreme cases of survival.
If that were true strip clubs and breast implants would not exist.
xdamage
06-30-2009, 06:34 PM
^^^I don't know about the ability to control those urges. When I hear grown men defending the urge instead of saying it is something that occassionally flashes into their heads before being quickly squashed....what I'm hearing is "I'm going to/want to act on this urge." and the only thing holding me back is the possibility of prosecution. Am I misreading this? I know I certainly wouldn't defend something so vehemently if it was only a passing thought.
Really it is no different then if we said "eww, disgusting" to people who were into S&M or B&D, and accused them of actually promoting violence.
Or if we went after people who had fantasies roll through their head about sleeping with another man/woman that is not their spouse, and started yelling "cheater!!!" and we insisted that it is just a prelude to cheating.
Or if someone has a fantasy about a 3-some even though their spouse was totally opposed, if we insisted that means they are going to do it against their spouses wish.
Or if someone had a passing fantasy about being sexually taken by someone they secretly wanted and we started screaming "rape promoter!"
Or if a woman of 40 something had a passing fantasy about a younger hotter man making love to her, say even 20 something, and we started yelling "child molester".
No, I think they'd have the right to vehemently defend their right to have their fantasies so long as they remain just harmless fantasies. All these people would have the right to say, no your not me, not born with my body, my life hormones, my life, my DNA, and my fantasy material is harmless mindless get off material, and there is nothing wrong with me. I'm not gonna do x,y,z even if my mind wanders that way when fantasizing, and I'm not going to feel angst, or feel like there is something wrong with me.
Golden_Rule
06-30-2009, 07:45 PM
Instinctually though, guys should be more attracted to women at their most fertile... which is actually early to mid 20's. Mid-teens girls can get pregnant fairly easy, but have more difficulty carrying a healthy baby to term, making them less fertile. 21ish to 24-25 I believe is the prime reproductive age.
**I'm not looking it up to check my facts, because it is seriously fucking hard to find the actual studies and statistics there is so much damn rhetoric about this topic on the interwebs. Anyone who is great with searches can find it and check the ages I listed...I could be off a year or two.**
Actually it has more to do with physical attributes than specific age. What those attributes are is differs from culture to culture.
What they have in common is that it always have to do with attributes that particular culture defines as those which indicate a woman is most likely to have healthy children and be able to bring them to term and mother them well after their birth.
The same way women are instinctually attracted to men who have attributes their particular culture defines as indicating said man would be a good provider.
Golden_Rule
06-30-2009, 07:53 PM
^^I do believe instincts drive us, but I also believe we evolve fairly rapidly as a species, so hopefully this instintual arguement will lose any relevance within a few generations. This rapid evolution can clearly be seen if you study the history of our developement.
You do know, then again you may not otherwise why make it, that the above statement flies in the face of well regarded anthropological theory.
Theory that states that what physiological changes have occurred in mankind during the last several hundred years [height being the most notable of these], man's intellectual capability [not the same thing as his historical knowledge, which is derived by each generation adding to the knowledge of the one that preceded it] is little changed over the last millennium.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-30-2009, 08:05 PM
Theory that states that what physiological changes have occurred in mankind during the last several hundred years [height being the most notable of these], man's intellectual capability [not the same thing as his historical knowledge, which is derived by each generation adding to the knowledge of the one that preceded it] is little changed over the last millennium.
Actually IQ and height both have increased over the last 100 years; not because of evolution but because of nutrition and advances in health care.
See the Flynn effect;
In his study of IQ tests scores for different populations over the past sixty years, James R. Flynn discovered that IQ scores increased from one generation to the next for all of the countries for which data existed ().
Cyril
06-30-2009, 08:07 PM
haha, thanks, it's really not a big deal to me.
I thank you for not putting the noose around my neck. This shows that your heart is just as beautiful as your face.
princessjas
06-30-2009, 08:25 PM
Ok, saying in several generations was majorly overstating it (more like a hundred generations), but forgive me if I do WISH this particular trait of men would vanish into the ether. Oh, and there have been several articles noting the recent rapid acceleration of human adaptation. Studies looking at the last 40,000 years actually show a significant acceleration of our genetic evolution.
I'm stepping out of this discussion now. You gentlemen have once again managed to remind me why I despise most of your gender.
Way to go making the hot dancer hate you!! :highfive: It takes a bit with me as I am unusually accepting of mens perviness, but you all managed.
I'm not going to address any more arguments regarding this subject as I believe we will never see eye to eye... I will always think guys who prey on young girls are disgusting perverts who deserve to die in a very painful manner...and that those who defend them are barely a step above...and well the gentlemen that participated in this argument obviously think that this is acceptable behavior. It's just not something I will ever be able to accept regardless of mens instinctual drives.
ETA - I don't want anyone to read my post and think I am/was a man hater and that is the reason for my views. 10 years of dancing didn't manage to turn me against men, but just a short while on SW has really made me change my views on men. You guys are either truly the bottom of the barrel or I was VERY lucky with my aquantances and custies my entire life.
You do know, then again you may not otherwise why make it, that the above statement flies in the face of well regarded anthropological theory.
Theory that states that what physiological changes have occurred in mankind during the last several hundred years [height being the most notable of these], man's intellectual capability [not the same thing as his historical knowledge, which is derived by each generation adding to the knowledge of the one that preceded it] is little changed over the last millennium.
xdamage
06-30-2009, 09:05 PM
Well there is a huge amount of evidence that people have tendencies to be violent, even commit murder, as evidenced by an endless history of it.
I can face that fact about human nature without condoning it. I'm also okay that people sometimes mull over it in their heads, so long as they don't do it.
But in saying so, I guess it is bound to happen that I'm going to be called out as a WITCH - DEVIL! Yay, aren't humans great? Yea because if I talk about it and don't freak out, it must be I am condoning murder. That is the only two possible choices. A complete and utter emotional reaction or condoning. There is no possible intellectual view of human nature in the middle.
Way to go to remind me of why I really don't like people in general.
Golden_Rule
06-30-2009, 09:08 PM
I'm stepping out of this discussion now. You gentlemen have once again managed to remind me why I despise most of your gender.
You see... that goes directly to a point attempting to be made in another thread.
How can you have an intellectually unbiased conversation with someone you despise?
Normal human reaction would be to not give someone you can't stand viewpoint a fair hearing. You are, before even hearing them, turned off to any idea coming from someone you despise. That's simply normal.
So how can any opinion coming from a man, no matter how potentially on point it might be, have any chace with you since you, as you state yourself, "despise our gender."?
Way to go making the hot dancer hate you!! :highfive: It takes a bit with me as I am unusually accepting of mens perviness, but you all manged.
First off, if that was aimed at me where the hell did that come from? A bit over the top. Secondly, on a site where we are all words that express ideas you aren't a "hot dancer" to me. Just another intellect with which to exchange and debate ideas, nothing more.
princessjas
06-30-2009, 09:21 PM
Well there is a huge amount of evidence that people have tendencies to be violent, even commit murder, as evidenced by an endless history of it.
I can face that fact about human nature without condoning it. I'm also okay that people sometimes mull over it in their heads, so long as they don't do it.
But in saying so, I guess it is bound to happen that I'm going to be called out as a WITCH - DEVIL! Yay, aren't humans great? Yea because if I talk about it and don't freak out, it must be I am condoning murder. That is the only two possible choices. A complete and utter emotional reaction or condoning. There is no possible intellectual view of human nature in the middle.
Way to go to remind me of why I really don't like people in general.
Wow, that was harsh considering the statement wasn't directed at you! Just..Jeez.
You see... that goes directly to a point attempting to be made in another thread.
How can you have an intellectually unbiased conversation with someone you despise?
Normal human reaction would be to not give someone you can't stand viewpoint a fair hearing. You are, before even hearing them, turned off to any idea coming from someone you despise. That's simply normal.
So how can any opinion coming from a man, no matter how potentially on point it might be, have any chace with you since you, as you state yourself, "despise our gender."?
First off, if that was aimed at me where the hell did that come from? A bit over the top. Secondly, on a site where we are all words that express ideas you aren't a "hot dancer" to me. Just another intellect with which to exchange and debate ideas, nothing more.
Well, I only despise men who are sexist or otherwise horrible to deal with. I only began to see you in that light after your many posts defending mens rights to do...whatever they want basically, because it is instinctual. Ignoring many points in my posts also added to my view of you. Notice I attempted to post counter points to nearly every point made in my posts, yet none of the men seemed to do the same.
Since I didn't yet view you as a misogynist my debate wasn't coming from a place of hatred until I just gave up because I realized nearly everything I was saying was falling on deaf ears.
xdamage
06-30-2009, 09:57 PM
^^^
It seemed pretty directed at me, but okay, I do apologize as this is obviously a topic that brings up some hard feelings for you.
FWIW I personally avoided the overly young girls at the SCs, especially the school-girl outfitted ones, because I think it is creepy.
But I really don't think GR (and I know I am not) condoning sleeping with teenies.
Like so many people, I walked around feeling guilt for pretty much everything in my life. Thanks to a wonderful (not) upbringing, I was particularly susceptible to everyone else' idea of what I should and should not feel and think.
I've since I come to realize society and common opinion can go fuck it self. So yea, I'm human. Sometimes thoughts of violence pass through my head, sexual thoughts, even kinky thoughts. None of these have resulted in my killing or even hurting anyone just for the sake of it, not in cheating (yea i could have, i stopped it) just cause I might have some fantasies, sleeping with teens (not my thing but if it is for someone, doesn't mean they really would), or even actually doing most of the kinky things that go through my head (it's just thoughts), and I'm like 1000x happier that I don't angst over every little human bit of me that doesn't fit societies idea of what is a good human. I highly recommend it, not to be ashamed of embracing all of ourselves, even the parts we have to keep in check.
Hopper
07-01-2009, 12:38 AM
Let us look at the exact quote.
I don't see bragging or any mention of "extras". I meant that customers are being treated more like customers instead of something to be used and discarded.
It appears some see trolls that are not there.
Right - let's assume the other trolling charges against Cyril are misrepresentations as well. (Some of them don't seem like offenses anyway.)
In another thread, a dancer said these exact words to Cyril: "The way you word your comments makes it sound like either (a) English is not your first language (b) incredibly simple minded."
Then later in the thread she said this: "And also, it isn't that I am starting arguments, I'm really just sort of an asshole."
So this dancer trolls Cyril, admits she's trolling him, and no other dancers jump on her for it. But Cyril slips up in this thread and dancers go after him for supposedly trolling. That proves to me that they are being false.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 10:34 AM
Way to go making the hot dancer hate you!!
ETA - I don't want anyone to read my post and think I am/was a man hater and that is the reason for my views. 10 years of dancing didn't manage to turn me against men, but just a short while on SW has really made me change my views on men. Could it be that the male posters here,for the most part, are still able to use their big head because your dancer hotness is blunted by the medium?
princessjas
07-01-2009, 01:13 PM
Could it be that the male posters here,for the most part, are still able to use their big head because your dancer hotness is blunted by the medium?
Are you saying that any guy who is thinking clearly is an utter asshole? /:O
That the only way a guy may possibly be polite is if he is trying to get laid? I've never actually viewed men that negatively.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 04:59 PM
Are you saying that any guy who is thinking clearly is an utter asshole? /:O
That the only way a guy may possibly be polite is if he is trying to get laid? I've never actually viewed men that negatively.
No blue posters were impolite they just didn't blindly agree; if that makes them utter assholes so be it.
I think what bothers dancers in customer conversation is PLs thinking with the big head; don't worry in the club you hotness will still strike them dumb.
Hopper
07-02-2009, 12:26 AM
^I think she is very confused. Further up the page she says she despises most men, then she says she's not a man-hater and that most men she has met are okay except for those posting at this site.
princessjas
07-02-2009, 06:14 AM
No blue posters were impolite they just didn't blindly agree; if that makes them utter assholes so be it.
I think what bothers dancers in customer conversation is PLs thinking with the big head; don't worry in the club you hotness will still strike them dumb.
When I said it was mainly guys here that I disliked and considered misogynistic assholes, YOU were the one that suggested maybe it was because you were actually using your brains. I just asked if you assumed that all men thinking clearly were asses.
BTW - The definition of a troll is someone who ignores most of the content of others posts/threads and simply posts to rile up the members of the board, in this case, the dancers. Sound familiar? ::)
^I think she is very confused. Further up the page she says she despises most men, then she says she's not a man-hater and that most men she has met are okay except for those posting at this site.
How is it confusing to say that I never really had a bad view of men, but you guys are changing that? I said I was starting to despise most of your gender, but actually it is just you guys here. The men I meet in life tend to be 1000X more polite and intelligent. If you can't grasp that concept then you will never be able to understand WHY most of the dancers here consider you guys so offensive.
Cyril
07-02-2009, 06:18 AM
When I said it was mainly guys here that I disliked and considered misogynistic assholes, YOU were the one that suggested maybe it was because you were actually using your brains. I just asked if you assumed that all men thinking clearly were asses.
BTW - The definition of a troll is someone who ignores most of the content of the posts and simply posts to rile up dancers. Sound familiar? ::)
How is it confusing to say that I never really had a bad view of men, but you guys are changing that? I said I was starting to despise most of your gender, but actually it is just you guys here. The men I meet in life tend to be 1000X more polite and intelligent. If you can't grasp that concept then you will never be able to understand WHY most of the dancers here consider you guys so offensive.
I think I am getting addicted to this forum. At 06:00am, I usually read the news not SW but here I am reading the SW drama.
I think you did say that you despise entire male gender. Please go back and read your post. There is no need for back paddling. A simple apology would do the trick. :D
princessjas
07-02-2009, 06:35 AM
I think I am getting addicted to this forum. At 06:00am, I usually read the news not SW but here I am reading the SW drama.
I think you did say that you despise entire male gender. Please go back and read your post. There is no need for back paddling. A simple apology would do the trick. :D
Nope, not apologizing to someone like you. I save my apologies for people I like and respect.
I did at first say that, but let me be REALLY clear here for the simple minded....After careful consideration, I realized, I actually only despise a select group of you gentlemen here (and I use that term very loosely).
Cyril
07-02-2009, 06:43 AM
Nope, not apologizing to someone like you. I save my apologies for people I like and respect.
This is a perfect canned answer that can be re-used effectively. Very well.
Hopper
07-03-2009, 01:01 AM
...
BTW - The definition of a troll is someone who ignores most of the content of others posts/threads and simply posts to rile up the members of the board, in this case, the dancers. Sound familiar? ::)
That's what you and a couple of other dancers are doing. We've proved that a number of times in just this thread.
How is it confusing to say that I never really had a bad view of men, but you guys are changing that? I said I was starting to despise most of your gender, but actually it is just you guys here. ...
This is what you actually said:
...
...You gentlemen have once again managed to remind me why I despise most of your gender.
...
If we only reminded you, it means you already did hate most men, not that we caused you to. Perhaps it is the reason you refuse to read our posts properly?
Golden_Rule
07-03-2009, 02:51 AM
Well, I only despise men who are sexist or otherwise horrible to deal with.
To start with that wasn't precisely what you said. Your phrasing distinctly left the reader thinking you meant men in general. But OK, you are modifying that position.
I only began to see you in that light after your many posts defending mens rights to do...whatever they want basically, because it is instinctual.
Secondly, if that is what you got from my posts you really don't know my general position on this topic at all, and certainly not me generally.
1) In general I am an advocate not of women's rights, or men's rights, but PEOPLE's rights. When I say we are all just folks, that is precisely what I mean.
2) Specific to this topic what I said was that ignoring instinctual drives makes one a fool to their power to sway the individual. Acknowledging them makes it easier to use reason to deal with them.
Example: If one is an alcoholic, denying it doesn;t make it easier to deal with alcohol. Admitting there is an issue allows the individual to cope more readily.
Same thing with instinctual drives, including lust. You acknowledge its existence. That its real and there is a reason for it [in this case that its hard wired] and that makes it easier to find ways to cope.
[Ignoring many points in my posts also added to my view of you. Notice I attempted to post counter points to nearly every point made in my posts, yet none of the men seemed to do the same.
3) If I appeared to ignore certain points in your posts what that usually means is that I agree with what you said so there is no reason to go back and forth on it. What ever you said, which stands as the last comment on the matter, is sufficient to cover that part of what we were discussing, so I leave it unchallenged.
Do you require that I say, "Oh yes, I agree with that so we can leave it where you left it.", each time you make a point that I figure doesn't require additional commentary?
Since I didn't yet view you as a misogynist my debate wasn't coming from a place of hatred until I just gave up because I realized nearly everything I was saying was falling on deaf ears.
Where would you get the idea, if you really read my posts, that I am a misogynist? That is the first time that I can recall anyone on this site aiming that label at me.
For the record. I like people in general. I certainly like women. Most women I know, especially those that know me in any real way, seem to like me as well.
'nuff said.
wishing well...
Golden_Rule
07-03-2009, 03:01 AM
But I really don't think GR (and I know I am not) condoning sleeping with teenies.
I would hope that any number of posts in this thread would have made that clear enough.
If not, for the record... I think having sex with kids is cruel and criminal.
I don't even endorse older men having intimate/sexual relationships with 18-early twenty somethings. Though it is not criminal it has got aspects to it that can misfire in any number of directions not particularly good for either party involved.
firemaiden04
07-03-2009, 06:15 AM
Nope, not apologizing to someone like you. I save my apologies for people I like and respect.
I did at first say that, but let me be REALLY clear here for the simple minded....After careful consideration, I realized, I actually only despise a select group of you gentlemen here (and I use that term very loosely).
Just ignore them. Just ignore them. They're trying to get a rise out of you, they obviously have nothing better to do, and they get off thinking they're big important hotshots with penises and money, and all the little women here just can't understand them (bless our hearts).
firemaiden04
07-03-2009, 06:16 AM
If that were true strip clubs and breast implants would not exist.
...dude...
Seriously. Knock it off.
princessjas
07-03-2009, 06:55 AM
Hopper and GR, let me be VERY FUCKING CLEAR!!! I was pissed when I wrote that, because I think you guys along with Cyril and Earl are about the lowest humans I have ever had the misfortune to interact with. I am fairly certain I made my position much clearer by my later posts. I have a temper, and an entire range of other normal human emotions. If you don't, please seek help, you clearly have Anti-Social Personality Disorder, although most are just refered to as Sociopaths or Psychopaths. Now I am done with you two... Argue back and forth with each other if you must. You two are not worth the energy it takes to type.
Oh, and guys, if you don't support a particular male behavior, thats great, but defending why men might exhibit such behavior, even in an intellectual manner, makes you appear to indirectly support such actions. I have personally seen men who "defend" such actions but "would never do such things" well, do them...over and over again, I've seen this with more than one person (more than 2 or 3 actually). The, "Oh, I'd never, I just understand where the drive comes from." is just a bunch of hot air in my experience.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-03-2009, 09:09 AM
:propeller Hooper, GR, Earl and Cyrial; big important hotshots with penises and money. :propeller
Athenathefabulous
07-03-2009, 09:48 AM
i dont think we can condemn people for their thoughts, only for their actions. The human mind is a dirty place and all of us have thoughts that we should not act on, be it in the sexual or violent category.
If an older guy sees an anonymous and pretty 16 y/o walk by and gets a brief sexual attraction yet does nothing, i dont think he should be condemned. A. wihtout talking to the girl, for all he knows she could be 18. and B. sexual attraction is not always controlled; sexual actions are. If he doesnt try to hit on her or stare creepily and the only one aware of the quick thought is himself, then no harm done. Yes its gross because we should be protecting those who are more innocent, but a brief thought is not the only thing defining a character. Now if the older guy seduces the 16 y/o, that is fucked up and IMO, taking advantage of someone. a 16 yr old might be 'sexually mature' in a physical sense, but mentally they are not developed. Seducing her would be taking advantage of her and could cause her emotional problems later in life.
we all have thoughts that are wrong. There have been times when i have gotten angry to the point where i wanted to harm or kill someone, as i am sure every person on this board has also. Did I/would i really? No. So am I a horrible person for wanting to hurt someone in a moment of rage? I hope not. Now if i acted on it and severely injured someone because i was pissed, then I would be condemned. Those arent the only troublesome thoughts i have had... if someone leaves a valuable item unnattended where there is no possibility of me getting caught, i might be tempted to swipe it. However, I dont. I dont think briefly thinking about stealing it is bad as long as I dont act on the thought. Resisting temptation is part of being human.
so yea i just thought i would add my 2 cents.
firemaiden04
07-03-2009, 10:15 AM
...*sigh*.
Don't think there's really anything left to say here.
And I'm really, really glad shit like this doesn't make me hate men in general.
YodaLady.com
07-03-2009, 10:34 AM
Wow this thread got deep.. How about we get back to the topic of "Real vs Fake boobs".. If we're only talking about breasts, My personal preference is a C-D cup... Natural or "Natural looking" will always be preferred... But I feel that a personality or presence is so much more important.. Even if you're just walking by me in the club, If you have a great smile and a certain "Glow".. I am far more attracted to you.. regardless if your boobs are large or small or real or fake... I encourage ladies in the club to focus on their confidence and mannerisms before even considering BA, you will always find guys who like small natural breasts over large fake ones.. it's about what else you have to offer that will get the customer coming back, or spending more than that initial $20 on a lap dance.. k, I'm done ranting... :o)
Hopper
07-04-2009, 01:52 AM
Hopper and GR, let me be VERY FUCKING CLEAR!!! I was pissed when I wrote that, because I think you guys along with Cyril and Earl are about the lowest humans I have ever had the misfortune to interact with. I am fairly certain I made my position much clearer by my later posts. I have a temper, and an entire range of other normal human emotions. If you don't, please seek help, you clearly have Anti-Social Personality Disorder, although most are just refered to as Sociopaths or Psychopaths. Now I am done with you two... Argue back and forth with each other if you must. You two are not worth the energy it takes to type.
Oh, and guys, if you don't support a particular male behavior, thats great, but defending why men might exhibit such behavior, even in an intellectual manner, makes you appear to indirectly support such actions. I have personally seen men who "defend" such actions but "would never do such things" well, do them...over and over again, I've seen this with more than one person (more than 2 or 3 actually). The, "Oh, I'd never, I just understand where the drive comes from." is just a bunch of hot air in my experience.
I made it clear that I was not defending men screwing all the 16-y-o's they can, so why do you think I am one of the lowest humans?
We have tempers too, but we can control them. We are not anti-social because of that. Not controlling your temper is anti-social. I gave you no reason to lose it. You are a troll.
xdamage
07-04-2009, 02:44 AM
Well the convo turned south in large part because too many of us joined in, essentially ganging up princessjas, which was certainly not my intent in responding... not that she can't defend her position fine, but the majority of us dig in harder when too many jump on us at the same time and miss our valid points in the fray.
Also when you cut through the noise, we can only get so upset about someone whose key point is that it is wrong to sexually prey on minors. Like of all the possible things a person could say or do, I can't possibly be upset with someone for having STRONG convictions about protecting minors. We probably need more of that.
Hopper
07-04-2009, 05:26 AM
^She attacked me because I was defending Cyril against others accusing him of trolling when he commented on Avery's pic. That was nothing to do with the men screwing 16-y-o's issue. So, she is a troll. Then suddenly in the above post she is attacking me over that. That is also trolling, moral outrage or not.
As far as I can tell, GR did not defend it either, he just said that it is natural for men to find 16-y-o's sexually attractive, which I agree with. In the UK, where 16 yrs is below the age of consent, 16 yo girls have appeared in major men's girlie mags like Mayfair.
Personally I don't think it is wrong for older men to have sex with 16-yo girls. I don't know where the dancers here get the idea from that it is pedophilia. I do recognise that usually 16-yo girls, being newly out of adolescence, are emotionally immature and vulnerable. However, that does not stop them from having sex with boys (say) 15 to 18 years old, and people don't make a moral issue of that. Younger girls (12 to 15) also have sex with boys near their age, but most people consider girls that age to be too young for sex at all, though fact is some do it.
Whatever the dancers here think, the issue isn't clear cut, so they don't have any real right to attack us over it.
verfolgung
07-04-2009, 07:01 AM
^She attacked me because I was defending Cyril against others accusing him of trolling when he commented on Avery's pic. That was nothing to do with the men screwing 16-y-o's issue. So, she is a troll. ...
It has already been explained that the perception of Cyril is based on more than that singular post and on a larger pattern of behavior.
Btw - Several members have viewed many of Cyril's posts in a negative light. Personally I feel that he is primarily guilty for trying to discuss topics on which he has little knowledge or experience so he comes off as ignorant and uninformed. However, your attempts to accuse Jas and other dancers of being a trolls is falling on deaf ears and only working to further cause some people to shut you out. Rather than convincing people to your side, you are mearly pushing them further away.
... Personally I don't think it is wrong for older men to have sex with 16-yo girls. ...
Whatever the dancers here think, the issue isn't clear cut, so they don't have any real right to attack us over it.
Try using that defense in a court of law when someone is charged with statutory rape.
For as much as you feel you are entitled to your opinion on the matter of "older men having sex with 16-yo girls", other people are entitled to consider that position to be disgusting.
Of all the issues and topics to pick while trying to claim to be unfarily viewed and treated, this one is clearly not the best.
princessjas
07-04-2009, 07:26 AM
In one post you say "I made it clear that I was not defending men screwing all the 16-y-o's they can, so why do you think I am one of the lowest humans?"
Then, in your very next post you say "Personally I don't think it is wrong for older men to have sex with 16-yo girls."
BTW - I am reporting your posts and asking that you be removed from this board. We DO NOT need a sexual predator on a board made for women.
Also, lay off calling all the dancers trolls. It doesn't make you look cool. You look like an ass. Do you know how many people have congratulated me for standing up to you guys in this thread, both by PM's and in chat? That says something of the popularity of your position, whatever that may be. Oh, and about half were men, that says even more, huh?
Saying I attacked you for defending Cyril is laughable. I called you an asshat after you kept posting pissiness over and over again after Cyril had agreed with my post saying he should have figured out that was Avery. Cyril and I had NO ISSUES until YOU kept bringing the issue up repeatedly and he eventually backed you in your attacks.
As for me being a troll, go back and read my posts. I responded in an intellectual manner, and was the only one actually READING posts and responding with counterpoints to each idea brought up. When I skipped one accidentally I apologized, called myself a sleepyhead and addressed the forgotten point.
After a point though, your attacks (and a few others) became ridiculous and aggravating to the point where I gave up and resigned myself to the fact that you are indeed scum (as can be seen by your conviction that fucking 16-yr olds is appropriate). I truly hope you are in jail soon.
Also, to further defend myself on the troll accusation. I am obviously a girl and a retired dancer, I have a pic in my avi and have several long-standing members that can vouch for me. Check my past posts. Most are supportive and encouraging to the dancers on this forum, many have useful information.
Lastly, you need to go back and read a description on anti-social behavior. Losing your temper once certainly does not qualify. :O
^She attacked me because I was defending Cyril against others accusing him of trolling when he commented on Avery's pic. That was nothing to do with the men screwing 16-y-o's issue. So, she is a troll. Then suddenly in the above post she is attacking me over that. That is also trolling, moral outrage or not.
As far as I can tell, GR did not defend it either, he just said that it is natural for men to find 16-y-o's sexually attractive, which I agree with. In the UK, where 16 yrs is below the age of consent, 16 yo girls have appeared in major men's girlie mags like Mayfair.
Personally I don't think it is wrong for older men to have sex with 16-yo girls. I don't know where the dancers here get the idea from that it is pedophilia. I do recognise that usually 16-yo girls, being newly out of adolescence, are emotionally immature and vulnerable. However, that does not stop them from having sex with boys (say) 15 to 18 years old, and people don't make a moral issue of that. Younger girls (12 to 15) also have sex with boys near their age, but most people consider girls that age to be too young for sex at all, though fact is some do it.
Whatever the dancers here think, the issue isn't clear cut, so they don't have any real right to attack us over it.
xdamage
07-04-2009, 07:56 AM
Personally I don't think it is wrong for older men to have sex with 16-yo girls. I don't know where the dancers here get the idea from that it is pedophilia. I do recognise that usually 16-yo girls, being newly out of adolescence, are emotionally immature and vulnerable.
Hey, I honestly can't get too worked up over someone having fantasies remembering a HS lover or wanted-to-be-lover of when they were also of the same age.
Some, like jas, also have issues with older people actively fantasizing about teens. Some people may see it as okay if it is only fantasy. For me there is a murky grey area in the middle.. i can only get so worked up over passing thoughts.
I think it is pretty creepy when a grown man goes to a SC and picks the dancer dressed as HS girl, feeling it is moving from fantasy to action, though not everyone agrees with that.
But if your position is it's actually okay, then expect a lot of strong disagrement... it crosses a very clear line from thoughts to action.
However, that does not stop them from having sex with boys (say) 15 to 18 years old, and people don't make a moral issue of that. Younger girls (12 to 15) also have sex with boys near their age, but most people consider girls that age to be too young for sex at all, though fact is some do it.
It is absolutely crystal clear that post-pubescent teens are wired to want to have sex. It is instinctual for them as it is to want to eat when hungry.
But I remember that age quite well, and say I'm like 99.9% of people at that age. We're wired to want to have sex with each other at that age, NOT adult 40, 50, etc, somethings. You just aren't going to find many teenager fantasizing about having sex with older adults. Even though it may happen on rare occasion, and predators may look for them, the majority of people do have a problem with it for multiple reasons.
It is not that it is wrong for post pubescent teens to want to have sex with each other (well it is wrong only that they tend to be driven by instinct first, and worry about the consequences like pregnancy second), but there are many good reasons why the vast majority sense that it is wrong for a mature adult to prey sexually on someone who is still very much a child.
It meets my personal definition of morally "wrong"
princessjas
07-04-2009, 08:56 AM
Uh, I have no issue with that sorta thing. I'm not crazy, I swear! I don't even have a problem with the occassional thought that "Oh, she's hot." I have issues with grown men who routinely fantasize about teenies in their lives, that they see every day, that sorta thing. Not the men who may have a passing thought.
To be honest, I have experience as the teenie, and I can tell you MANY grown men felt me up, hit on me, etc. These same men condemned pedophiles and such, and always tried to act like such caring adults. Massaging my shoulders or feet at dinner parties as an excuse to touch me...Ick, it felt like an extreme violation of my person. Also, hopefully many of you guys who didn't understand my position when I said that many who defend the right to fantasize would actually make it reality, now see where I was coming from in the light of Hoppers revelation that fucking 16 yr olds is OK with him. In my experience this isn't that rare, and honestly, I'm not now and wasn't then that damn irresistible, so I don't believe my experience was in any way unique.
Also, about teens wanting to have sex with each other... You are absolutely right, they RARELY want to have sex with older adults and the girls that do generally have daddy issues. They are easily manipulated by older men and are not emotionally capable of dealing with an adult. That is why most consider it ok for them to sleep with one another, but not with a mature adult. We are on different levels maturity wise and the imbalance generally causes severe emotional and sometimes psychological trama to the teen. Meaning it is not a victimless crime....even if the teen is willing.
(I realize nearly everyone knows everything I just wrote in the last paragraph, that was just for Hopper and anyone else who thinks it is acceptable behavior.)
Hey, I honestly can't get too worked up over someone having fantasies remembering a HS lover or wanted-to-be-lover of when they were also of the same age.
Some, like jas, also have issues with older people actively fantasizing about teens. Some people may see it as okay if it is only fantasy. For me there is a murky grey area in the middle.. i can only get so worked up over passing thoughts.
I think it is pretty creepy when a grown man goes to a SC and picks the dancer dressed as HS girl, feeling it is moving from fantasy to action, though not everyone agrees with that.
But if your position is it's actually okay, then expect a lot of strong disagrement... it crosses a very clear line from thoughts to action.
It is absolutely crystal clear that post-pubescent teens are wired to want to have sex. It is instinctual for them as it is to want to eat when hungry.
But I remember that age quite well, and say I'm like 99.9% of people at that age. We're wired to want to have sex with each other at that age, NOT adult 40, 50, etc, somethings. You just aren't going to find many teenager fantasizing about having sex with older adults. Even though it may happen on rare occasion, and predators may look for them, the majority of people do have a problem with it for multiple reasons.
It is not that it is wrong for post pubescent teens to want to have sex with each other (well it is wrong only that they tend to be driven by instinct first, and worry about the consequences like pregnancy second), but there are many good reasons why the vast majority sense that it is wrong for a mature adult to prey sexually on someone who is still very much a child.
It meets my personal definition of morally "wrong"
firemaiden04
07-04-2009, 08:57 AM
There's a difference between two 16-year-olds having sex with each other, and some 45-year-old man pursuing a 16-year-old for sex.
That's why it's ILLEGAL in most places.
I am locking this thread until such time that charlie and I have time to discuss it. Do not create new threads to continue the argument or carry it into other existing threads.
Thank you,
FBR