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Harleigh HellKat
04-07-2010, 08:18 AM
If someone gave me three thousand a week I would sure as hell sit on my ass and hang out. I'd dance for you if you wanted me to, but I'd pay my way off stage and just CHILL. Eff the other customers. Seems like a bad business decision on her end... gambling when you already have a secured income.

I think she's just taking advantage of the situation, and that will probably be her downfall and drive her regular away.

jack0177057
04-07-2010, 08:44 AM
Thank you for your comments and suggestions. This is an important issue to me that I'm trying to sort out. I have never had a relationship outside my marriage before. I thought this women and I had something special evolving. I'm now questioning my/our situation. To clarify the situation a bit further, I go to the club to see her because I enjoy her companionship. I rarely/never get dances. I do not treat her like an entertainer. I also try try make sure she is well taken care of financially, my visits approximate $3,000 - $4,000+ per week. That is why I am troubled by the situation that I described in my first thread. Torn between the professional relationship and the otc personal relationship. Sometimes it is hard to draw the line, for both of us. Please advise.

Are you getting extras and sex OTC? Maybe she feels that what you pay her ITC, you are already getting your money's worth OTC. This is an interesting way to attempt to circumvent prostitution laws - customer pays extravagantly for "chats" with dancer ITC. Customer and dancer also date (and have sex) OTC, but no money is exchanged DURING THE DATE. You are only paying to chat, not for sex, yet she is only providing you sex because you represent an income stream of approximate $3,000 - $4,000+ per week to her.

I would just tell her this - "If you go dance for another customer while I'm here, I feel like a dipshit standing here alone, so I hope you don't mind me getting dances from other girls UNTIL you come back." This is your ultimatum. Dude, YOU have the power in this relationship. She is REPLACEABLE. You are NOT. If you open your eyes to this reality, you can drastically improve the relationship. (She'd like you and respect you better if you weren't such a wuss. Women despise wusses and only associate with them out of material need. Woman are only attracted to men who take control - its a psychological/biological fact.)

For $3,000 - $4,000+ per week you could have the finest escorts on a rotation basis. (But,... I know - its not about sex, its about love. I feel for you, man. TAKE CONTROL.)

MarvelGirl
04-07-2010, 10:27 AM
I think she's sick of the OP and is starting to think that the money isn't worth it.

Kellydancer
04-07-2010, 12:33 PM
Are you getting extras and sex OTC? Maybe she feels that what you pay her ITC, you are already getting your money's worth OTC. This is an interesting way to attempt to circumvent prostitution laws - customer pays extravagantly for "chats" with dancer ITC. Customer and dancer also date (and have sex) OTC, but no money is exchanged DURING THE DATE. You are only paying to chat, not for sex, yet she is only providing you sex because you represent an income stream of approximate $3,000 - $4,000+ per week to her.

I would just tell her this - "If you go dance for another customer while I'm here, I feel like a dipshit standing here alone, so I hope you don't mind me getting dances from other girls UNTIL you come back." This is your ultimatum. Dude, YOU have the power in this relationship. She is REPLACEABLE. You are NOT. If you open your eyes to this reality, you can drastically improve the relationship. (She'd like you and respect you better if you weren't such a wuss. Women despise wusses and only associate with them out of material need. Woman are only attracted to men who take control - its a psychological/biological fact.)

For $3,000 - $4,000+ per week you could have the finest escorts on a rotation basis. (But,... I know - its not about sex, its about love. I feel for you, man. TAKE CONTROL.)

That's assuming they are having sex. Maybe I missed the post (I skimmed through) but it sounds like they hang out outside the club without sex. When customers and dancers hang outside the club (platonic or not) it does draw the line. In that case I wouldn't hang outside the club but that's me. The one situation where I hung out with a customer (my current situation) was long after I left the club in question to avoid things like this. Btw, it wasn't a situation where he was paying for my time either otc. This is a true relationship and one I hope develops into much more. I did have a few situations where a regular would hire me for some event but they knew it was strictly money (and nothing sexual of any type).

And no, women don't all like men who "take control". I never date guys like that. I date guys were power is equal.

To the op: I wonder what you get out of this. I wonder if you think this makes you special in her eyes. I hate to tell you, but probably not. She could like you as more (this happened to me) or she could see you as a cash cow (the more likely situation). I know personally if you were giving me what you gave her, I'd sit with you all night (depending on circumstances) but not all dancers feel they "owe" it to the customer.

jack0177057
04-07-2010, 02:45 PM
And no, women don't all like men who "take control". I never date guys like that. I date guys were power is equal.

"Taking control" doesn't mean to the exclusion of the other person... Equal power means both are taking control. My point was - women don't actually like guys who are pushovers, meek, passive, weak and indecisive, but they will use them.

The_Oceans
04-07-2010, 05:07 PM
A relationship predicated on your spending large amounts of cash is not a friendship. A dancer taking your money and trying to avoid giving you proper dances is not a normal customer/dancer relationship.

Dude, you are being played here big-time. You are emotionally involved with a dancer and she is emotionally involved with your wallet. If you are her friend then stop going to her club and stop spending money on her. See how long the friendship actually lasts. If you are her customer then you have a right to expect good service for your money. If she isn't willing to give it to you it is best to move on. Go to another club if you have to. You are stuck in an emotional limbo because your wallet is allowing your heart to believe in something that is never going to happen. Get out before you make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

THIS, this, a thousand times this. It's the lesson I learned recently with the gal I'd been a regular/friend/??? for the last four years. Of course, even at the time of severance, when I went to see her at the club I always got the same, excellent dances from her. But when it came to getting together outside (like we'd talked about for a long time) she became much less reliable. If standing me up for a non-club date the weekend of my birthday wasn't the big clue, I'd never get it.

Kellydancer
04-07-2010, 09:13 PM
THIS, this, a thousand times this. It's the lesson I learned recently with the gal I'd been a regular/friend/??? for the last four years. Of course, even at the time of severance, when I went to see her at the club I always got the same, excellent dances from her. But when it came to getting together outside (like we'd talked about for a long time) she became much less reliable. If standing me up for a non-club date the weekend of my birthday wasn't the big clue, I'd never get it.

One thing I can tell guys is if a girl really wants to get together with a guy she'll make it known (and not charge). The guy I like I knew back then I wanted to pursue an otc friendship. By then I had left the club and had asked my roommate (also a dancer) to ask him over. He previously had asked me out but at the time I didn't feel right about it. So he came over and we became off club friends. I've pretended to other guys I'd go somewhere with them (one wanted to take me to a family party) but never did. Many guys think that a girl is honest when she says she'll go somewhere and many times she is not.

chris91
04-08-2010, 12:49 AM
I think she's sick of the OP and is starting to think that the money isn't worth it.


This is exactly what it sounds like to me too.

yoda57us
04-08-2010, 05:15 AM
THIS, this, a thousand times this. It's the lesson I learned recently with the gal I'd been a regular/friend/??? for the last four years. Of course, even at the time of severance, when I went to see her at the club I always got the same, excellent dances from her. But when it came to getting together outside (like we'd talked about for a long time) she became much less reliable. If standing me up for a non-club date the weekend of my birthday wasn't the big clue, I'd never get it.


One thing I can tell guys is if a girl really wants to get together with a guy she'll make it known (and not charge).

I learned this many years ago, after spending several years and many dollars on a very sweet dancer who had the whole "dangling OTC carrot" game down to a science. If a lady is interested in any sort of real world relationship, friendship or otherwise, she will just come out and tell you. Any feigned sort of "playing hard to get" foolishness is simply a play for money.

Kellydancer
04-08-2010, 12:06 PM
I learned this many years ago, after spending several years and many dollars on a very sweet dancer who had the whole "dangling OTC carrot" game down to a science. If a lady is interested in any sort of real world relationship, friendship or otherwise, she will just come out and tell you. Any feigned sort of "playing hard to get" foolishness is simply a play for money.

It really is. I've had customers think I was playing hard to get when I'd say something like "someday". In reality in most cases I never had an intention of getting together. I remember one time a regular asked me to attend a work function. I told him sure, without being specific. I hated to lie but wanted the money (plus I knew I was leaving the club next week which made it easier). In a way I felt bad about this, but never made specifics, such as sure I'll meet you at 7:30pm on Saturday. Another asked me to a family party, and I said something along the lines of give me the info. I was never heartless enough to tell a guy I'd meet him at certain times, but I'm sure I've disappointed some guys who thought they finally had a hot girlfriend. It was never anything but the money. Otherwise I would have given them my number or where I lived.

Naida
04-12-2010, 06:33 PM
Women despise wusses and only associate with them out of material need. Woman are only attracted to men who take control - its a psychological/biological fact.

Just thought I'd weigh in here- I HATE men who "take control". More relationships than I care to name have ended because men have tried this bullshit tactic with me. If a man has any form of "control" in a relationship, it's because I choose to give it to him. He cannot take it.
And, depending on the guy, some times I do like the submissive man who lets me lead.

OP, take it from a woman and a dancer- no relationship is about control or power. If she really does like you, she'll listen to your concerns if you just talk to her about them like a mature adult.

As for her running off to dance for other customers and leaving you hanging- in the club, it's business. I've seen girls get bought out for whole nights by "whale" customers, but sneak off with some excuse to dance for other regular customers unbeknownst to the whale. If she runs off to do something else and you don't want to sit alone while she's busy, see about getting time with another girl in her absence. If she has a problem with it, she'll stop running off.

Harleigh HellKat
04-12-2010, 08:20 PM
What she said. I like a 50/50 relationship that's a little on the subby side. :D

I end up hating the ones that try to impose rule over the relationship.


Just thought I'd weigh in here- I HATE men who "take control". More relationships than I care to name have ended because men have tried this bullshit tactic with me. If a man has any form of "control" in a relationship, it's because I choose to give it to him. He cannot take it.
And, depending on the guy, some times I do like the submissive man who lets me lead.

OP, take it from a woman and a dancer- no relationship is about control or power. If she really does like you, she'll listen to your concerns if you just talk to her about them like a mature adult.

As for her running off to dance for other customers and leaving you hanging- in the club, it's business. I've seen girls get bought out for whole nights by "whale" customers, but sneak off with some excuse to dance for other regular customers unbeknownst to the whale. If she runs off to do something else and you don't want to sit alone while she's busy, see about getting time with another girl in her absence. If she has a problem with it, she'll stop running off.

WestCoast101
04-12-2010, 10:51 PM
I've read a number of posts of Victor 2, and his quest to drop his ATF. If its fiction writing its pretty funny, if its real its pretty sad, and forgive me but the situation reminds of that character in 1999 movie "OFFICE SPACE" with the (long ago layed off) Milton with the stapler obsession who is constantly being placed in the building in locales where no one will find him, see him, or ever know he is working

Miilton Waddams [talking on the phone]

" And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire..."

Hopper
04-13-2010, 04:04 AM
Just thought I'd weigh in here- I HATE men who "take control". More relationships than I care to name have ended because men have tried this bullshit tactic with me. If a man has any form of "control" in a relationship, it's because I choose to give it to him. He cannot take it.
And, depending on the guy, some times I do like the submissive man who lets me lead.

OP, take it from a woman and a dancer- no relationship is about control or power. If she really does like you, she'll listen to your concerns if you just talk to her about them like a mature adult.

I hate it when people talk about sexual relations as if they are political, i.e. in terms of control and power. I think it is right for the man to lead and I think many women like him to. The man is also obliged to defer to the woman in many ways.

johnnytwoshoes
04-13-2010, 04:29 AM
Man...I thought I posted some crap sometimes but this post is weird. This guy is obsessed with this girl first of all. I think its weird to pay her to spend time with him inside the club especially if he has access to her outside the club.

Advice to OP: Drop the chick and get a life.

jack0177057
04-13-2010, 07:11 PM
Just thought I'd weigh in here- I HATE men who "take control". More relationships than I care to name have ended because men have tried this bullshit tactic with me. If a man has any form of "control" in a relationship, it's because I choose to give it to him. He cannot take it.

"Taking control" doesn't mean to the exclusion of the other person... My point was - women don't actually like guys who are pushovers, meek, passive, weak and indecisive, but they will use them.

Personally, I love women who are confident, assertive and "take control", and I wouldn't feel attraction to a woman that didn't have a strong personality and that challenged me intellectually and emotionally. But, that doesn't mean I have to be a pushover or that I have to renounce all my power in the relationship. I've made that mistake before - she lost her attraction for me and I lost my self-respect. Now, I believe "control" has to be shared in an equilibrium -- sometimes there are power struggles (which is inevitable among equals) -- but it ends up being mostly balanced and equal (strong orgasms help bring peace and stability after a clash of egos).