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princessjas
09-11-2009, 07:51 AM
Likewise, but I was trying not to personalize the discussion. I just find everything about Obama ominous.
Oh, yes! Be very, very skeered of the black guy! ::)
I'd bet anything if he was a fat old white guy the conservatives wouldn't be so "terrified" of him...or question his birth, or intelligence, etc. Then we could quit the damn demonizing and get down to a duke out over the real issues but the right-wingers do damn near anything to avoid that. Screeching a bunch of pointless drivel and bs instead.
vmurphy252
09-11-2009, 08:38 AM
^Hey, you said no political argumen.. err, debates!
princessjas
09-11-2009, 08:42 AM
^Hey, you said no political argumen.. err, debates!
My bad! :-X
I'm just irritated and sick today (and working on 2 hrs sleep). Ignore me everyone.
vmurphy252
09-11-2009, 09:25 AM
^I AM just kidding... argue all you want.
Almost Jaded
09-11-2009, 11:43 AM
I'd bet anything if he was a fat old white guy the conservatives wouldn't be so "terrified" of him...or question his birth, or intelligence, etc. Then we could quit the damn demonizing and get down to a duke out over the real issues but the right-wingers do damn near anything to avoid that.
Yeah - cuz nobody did any of that with the last whiteguy, did they? :P
firemaiden04
09-11-2009, 02:34 PM
Yeah - cuz nobody did any of that with the last whiteguy, did they? :P
If Bush had been black, he NEVER would have been re-elected. And if he had been in office for any length of time, he would have been impeached for something. Anything. But he was white, so none of that happened. I don't like people who play the Race Card a lot, but I absolutely believe it in this case.
bem401
09-11-2009, 04:09 PM
Oh, yes! Be very, very skeered of the black guy! ::)
I'd bet anything if he was a fat old white guy the conservatives wouldn't be so "terrified" of him...or question his birth, or intelligence, etc. Then we could quit the damn demonizing and get down to a duke out over the real issues but the right-wingers do damn near anything to avoid that. Screeching a bunch of pointless drivel and bs instead.
Believe what you wish, but the fact he is black has nothing to do with anything, other than be one of the main reasons he was elected. I'd have no problem with JC Watts, Alan Keyes, or a couple of others whose politics make sense to me. In fact the only people who ever brought up his race were the democrats and to this day they are the only ones doing so. It is their answer to any criticism of Obama. Like you, they pull out the race card at their earliest opportunity because they can't win the arguments on their merits.
His birth is a question because he hasn't supplied proof positive of where it occurred and his intelligence is questioned because he comes off as not too bright when he is speaking off the cuff and he hasn't made his transcripts public. I'll give him some credit though. I think he is smarter than Biden, Gibbs, Pelosi, or Reid, and those are 4 very white people.
princessjas
09-11-2009, 05:10 PM
I believe he has produced a valid Hawaiian Birth Cert. Gonna check that, but I'm damn near certain.
bem401
09-11-2009, 05:17 PM
I believe he has produced a valid Hawaiian Birth Cert. Gonna check that, but I'm damn near certain.
He's produced a Certificate of Live Birth, which apparently is not exactly a Birth Certificate, which is issued by a hospital and signed by a doctor. I have not followed the whole birth certificate that closely, to be honest.
princessjas
09-11-2009, 05:43 PM
He's produced a Certificate of Live Birth, which apparently is not exactly a Birth Certificate, which is issued by a hospital and signed by a doctor. I have not followed the whole birth certificate that closely, to be honest.
I have a Certificate of Live Birth with both my kiddos. That's what it actually says at the top. The CDC recommends that hospitals use their standard Certificate of Live Birth. It's even got a standard doc listed on the CDC's site that way. Only the fancy ones from the hospital said Birth Certificate. (BTW - This is the sorta thing I was referring to. Not that you were doing it, you didn't know, but there is a LOT of stuff like that going around on the internet...taking normal things and riling up the largely uneducated conservative base....please don't yell at me for saying uneducated, down south here that IS the truth, the college grads are nearly all dems in my area.)
bem401
09-11-2009, 05:49 PM
I have a Certificate of Live Birth with both my kiddos. That's what it actually says at the top. The CDC recommends that hospitals use their standard Certificate of Live Birth. It's even got a standard doc listed on the CDC's site that way. Only the fancy ones from the hospital said Birth Certificate. (BTW - This is the sorta thing I was referring to. Not that you were doing it, you didn't know, but there is a LOT of stuff like that going around on the internet...taking normal things and riling up the largely uneducated conservative base....please don't yell at me for saying uneducated, down south here that IS the truth, the college grads are nearly all dems in my area.)
My understanding is that there is a distinction between the two in the state of Hawaii and that the document he has produced does not even satisfy Hawaii's proof of birth these days. (maybe I'm misinformed )
I'm not going to yell at you or anyone else for that matter, but let's agree there are plenty of uneducated people in both bases (have you ever heard the "man on the street" segments?).
I know a bit about liberal college grads. I'm more than a little embarrassed at times to admit where my degree is from. Its one of the best schools in the country ( as good as Obama's) but boy can they be embarrassing sometimes.
I don't know if you'll find this amusing, but i did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9HS8n8Y4qo
princessjas
09-11-2009, 06:38 PM
My understanding is that there is a distinction between the two in the state of Hawaii and that the document he has produced does not even satisfy Hawaii's proof of birth these days. (maybe I'm misinformed )
I'm not going to yell at you or anyone else for that matter, but let's agree there are plenty of uneducated people in both bases (have you ever heard the "man on the street" segments?).
I know a bit about liberal college grads. I'm more than a little embarrassed at times to admit where my degree is from. Its one of the best schools in the country ( as good as Obama's) but boy can they be embarrassing sometimes.
I don't know if you'll find this amusing, but i did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9HS8n8Y4qo
Hey, watchie! Those liberal college grads (with one conservative exception) form my friend base. Intellectuals of which several are actual geniuses....Interesting they are overwhelmingly liberal isn't it. }:D
BTW - I kid. Some are so liberal it boggles even my mind, but I did just havta point out that the vast majority of those intellectual dorks are liberals. :rotfl:
vmurphy252
09-11-2009, 08:39 PM
^And those of us that didn't graduate?
bem401
09-11-2009, 09:17 PM
Hey, watchie! Those liberal college grads (with one conservative exception) form my friend base. Intellectuals of which several are actual geniuses....Interesting they are overwhelmingly liberal isn't it. }:D
BTW - I kid. Some are so liberal it boggles even my mind, but I did just havta point out that the vast majority of those intellectual dorks are liberals. :rotfl:
You know, I'll blame on their, your, and my age. I'm a bit older than you. There is a saying "if you are in your 20's and not liberal, you have no heart. If you're in your 40's and not conservative, you have no brain".
Earl_the_Pearl
09-11-2009, 09:39 PM
You know, I'll blame on their, your, and my age. I'm a bit older than you. There is a saying "if you are in your 20's and not liberal, you have no heart. If you're in your 40's and not conservative, you have no brain".
If one is in his 60's he is lucky to have either in working order.
princessjas
09-12-2009, 11:49 AM
My understanding is that there is a distinction between the two in the state of Hawaii and that the document he has produced does not even satisfy Hawaii's proof of birth these days. (maybe I'm misinformed )
I'm not going to yell at you or anyone else for that matter, but let's agree there are plenty of uneducated people in both bases (have you ever heard the "man on the street" segments?).
I know a bit about liberal college grads. I'm more than a little embarrassed at times to admit where my degree is from. Its one of the best schools in the country ( as good as Obama's) but boy can they be embarrassing sometimes.
I don't know if you'll find this amusing, but i did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9HS8n8Y4qo
I had to look up the BC thing cause I'm anal like that. From a preliminary read it looks like an official copy and not the original birth certificate is called a Certificate of Live Birth. In other words when a copy of his Birth Certificate was requested they would have issued a Certificate of Live Birth. At his age the original may have been lost over the years by his family...or there may have been fears that it was doctored, therefore they requested one directly from the appropriate Hawaiian office.
Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.
The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual's birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person's birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth. http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
JayATee
09-12-2009, 11:55 AM
All this back and forth tells me one thing... America is in serious serious trouble, and it's not the president that's gonna bring the country down either.
firemaiden04
09-12-2009, 02:39 PM
All this back and forth tells me one thing... America is in serious serious trouble, and it's not the president that's gonna bring the country down either.
Agreed.
bem401
09-12-2009, 02:55 PM
I had to look up the BC thing cause I'm anal like that. From a preliminary read it looks like an official copy and not the original birth certificate is called a Certificate of Live Birth. In other words when a copy of his Birth Certificate was requested they would have issued a Certificate of Live Birth. At his age the original may have been lost over the years by his family...or there may have been fears that it was doctored, therefore they requested one directly from the appropriate Hawaiian office.
There's evidence going both ways on this one. Who's to say who's right? The following would dispute your contentions but I haven't researched it much myself. I do remember hearing something about the wrong font as well on the certificate.
Friday, August 8, 2008
Proof Barack Obama Birth Certificate is a Forgery.
This is an exclusive exposing the Barack Obama birth certificate as an absolute forgery and it has been in plain sight all along.
There can not be any Obamaniacs descending on sites claiming the experts are wrong, pixels are wrong or any other way of muddying the waters as the 1000 points of darkness have been carrying out their marching orders.
Below is a cut out of one part of the published Barack Obama birth certificate which exposes the fraud and forgery of this document. This is the certified certificate from Barack Obama himself.
What has been staring everyone in the face is the effects of political correctness and no one has seen it. The beauty of this liberal political correctness is that the person who forged this document got caught in their own trap of affirmative action hyphenated Americans.
Look closely at Stanley Ann Dunham's race. Caucasian.
Now look closely at Barack Hussein Obama sr's race. It is listed as African.
That doesn't seem all that interesting and no one has noticed it until one looks that this is an official document filed in August 1961.
Most people on the internet and blogging have no sense of history nor in the use of words and it is this lack of sense which is going to bite whoever forged this document.
Up until 1968, the standard term for all Africans was "negroe". This fit with the absolute secular scientific teaching of the day which notes the world has 3 races in Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid.
It was not until the Black Revolution when negroe or negro became a foul description in the late 1960's and then "black" was demanded by this group to describe them.
It was not until the late 1970's when political correctness came into vogue that it ushered in by the 1980's the term "African" to describe all blacks.
Whoever forged this birth certificate was not utilizing the 1960's terminology which a black person would be listed as. They fell instead into a warped year 2000 politically correct description of "African".
This is absolutely telling as if you looked at birth records in Prussia centuries ago, those people would be termed Prussian, Bavarian etc... as Germany did not yet exist as a termonology for nation state. If someone was listed as German in 1700, it would be glaring forgery just like the Obama forgery stuns the eyes once one knows what they are looking at.
One could research the certificates in Hawaii for absolutes, but considering as has been warned in this blog that Hawaii is a Democratic state, has Democratic officials who have been hemming and hawing about this certificate and only upon precise questioning do they start backing down as it means their jobs and prison time if they certify a forgery as real and this is Democratic transplanted son Barack Obama carrying on this charade, could one ever get a clear answer from them unless one looked at numbers of birth certificates to precisely learn how Hawaii was labeling "blacks".
If this case it is African, then why is not Stanley Ann Dunham labeled correctly North American after her continent? She though is labeled correctly as caucasian as that is exactly as she is.
If one still today searches enough death certificates in the 50 United States, you will find listed on them the term NEGRO. Now that is over 40 years since 1961 in Barack Obama's birth and political correctness has not reached completely into the coroner's records.
That fact is scientific and if it still exists today as proof it certainly is the proof from before 1900 in America and past 1960 that all blacks were noted as "negroe" or "negro" on all public records from birth certificates, marriage licenses, passports, driver's licenses to death certificates.
Whoever forged the Barack Obama birth certificate got caught in Mr. Obama's own political correctness.
In 1961 America, blacks were negroes and not Africans no matter if they came from Africa or not.
If one cares to examine the Negroe Leagues in baseball where blacks were to "pass" as Cubans to the United Negroe College Fund to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, there was no African at all in any terminology.
One was negroe on legal documents and "colored" in common usage.
No pixels in this. No questioning borders and no questions about the researcher's expertise as negroe is American history and scientific fact just like whoever forged the Obama birth certificate got caught in political correctness in not being able to use a term they were trained to avoid.
That is a fact. This birth certificate is a fake.
agtG 273
Posted by Lame Cherry at 10:41 AM
Newer Post Older Post H
bem401
09-12-2009, 02:57 PM
All this back and forth tells me one thing... America is in serious serious trouble, and it's not the president that's gonna bring the country down either.
Just one question Jay and FM: You are troubled by the criticism thrown at Obama but did you feel the same way when Bush was under attack by the democrats and mainstream media?
princessjas
09-12-2009, 03:24 PM
I haven't researched it at all tbh. No clue about the forgery claim, and really am way to sick to even waste the energy looking, hehe. I just looked up the Birth Cert vs Cert of Live Birth on the Hawaaian government site (that was the link at the bottom) because it was driving me nuts wondering. I even pulled out my kiddos to make sure I was right. Like I said I'm anal like that. ;D
(I'll probably research the hell outta the race listing thing once I'm better, cause now I'm wondering.)
There's evidence going both ways on this one. Who's to say who's right? The following would dispute your contentions but I haven't researched it much myself. I do remember hearing something about the wrong font as well on the certificate.
Friday, August 8, 2008
Proof Barack Obama Birth Certificate is a Forgery.
This is an exclusive exposing the Barack Obama birth certificate as an absolute forgery and it has been in plain sight all along.
There can not be any Obamaniacs descending on sites claiming the experts are wrong, pixels are wrong or any other way of muddying the waters as the 1000 points of darkness have been carrying out their marching orders.
Below is a cut out of one part of the published Barack Obama birth certificate which exposes the fraud and forgery of this document. This is the certified certificate from Barack Obama himself.
What has been staring everyone in the face is the effects of political correctness and no one has seen it. The beauty of this liberal political correctness is that the person who forged this document got caught in their own trap of affirmative action hyphenated Americans.
Look closely at Stanley Ann Dunham's race. Caucasian.
Now look closely at Barack Hussein Obama sr's race. It is listed as African.
That doesn't seem all that interesting and no one has noticed it until one looks that this is an official document filed in August 1961.
Most people on the internet and blogging have no sense of history nor in the use of words and it is this lack of sense which is going to bite whoever forged this document.
Up until 1968, the standard term for all Africans was "negroe". This fit with the absolute secular scientific teaching of the day which notes the world has 3 races in Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid.
It was not until the Black Revolution when negroe or negro became a foul description in the late 1960's and then "black" was demanded by this group to describe them.
It was not until the late 1970's when political correctness came into vogue that it ushered in by the 1980's the term "African" to describe all blacks.
Whoever forged this birth certificate was not utilizing the 1960's terminology which a black person would be listed as. They fell instead into a warped year 2000 politically correct description of "African".
This is absolutely telling as if you looked at birth records in Prussia centuries ago, those people would be termed Prussian, Bavarian etc... as Germany did not yet exist as a termonology for nation state. If someone was listed as German in 1700, it would be glaring forgery just like the Obama forgery stuns the eyes once one knows what they are looking at.
One could research the certificates in Hawaii for absolutes, but considering as has been warned in this blog that Hawaii is a Democratic state, has Democratic officials who have been hemming and hawing about this certificate and only upon precise questioning do they start backing down as it means their jobs and prison time if they certify a forgery as real and this is Democratic transplanted son Barack Obama carrying on this charade, could one ever get a clear answer from them unless one looked at numbers of birth certificates to precisely learn how Hawaii was labeling "blacks".
If this case it is African, then why is not Stanley Ann Dunham labeled correctly North American after her continent? She though is labeled correctly as caucasian as that is exactly as she is.
If one still today searches enough death certificates in the 50 United States, you will find listed on them the term NEGRO. Now that is over 40 years since 1961 in Barack Obama's birth and political correctness has not reached completely into the coroner's records.
That fact is scientific and if it still exists today as proof it certainly is the proof from before 1900 in America and past 1960 that all blacks were noted as "negroe" or "negro" on all public records from birth certificates, marriage licenses, passports, driver's licenses to death certificates.
Whoever forged the Barack Obama birth certificate got caught in Mr. Obama's own political correctness.
In 1961 America, blacks were negroes and not Africans no matter if they came from Africa or not.
If one cares to examine the Negroe Leagues in baseball where blacks were to "pass" as Cubans to the United Negroe College Fund to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, there was no African at all in any terminology.
One was negroe on legal documents and "colored" in common usage.
No pixels in this. No questioning borders and no questions about the researcher's expertise as negroe is American history and scientific fact just like whoever forged the Obama birth certificate got caught in political correctness in not being able to use a term they were trained to avoid.
That is a fact. This birth certificate is a fake.
agtG 273
Posted by Lame Cherry at 10:41 AM
Newer Post Older Post H
bem401
09-12-2009, 03:39 PM
^^^I've just never understood why, if he has nothing to hide, he doesn't furnish his birth certificate, health records, and transcripts. He did promise the most transparent administration ever, did he not? He could make all this nonsense go away ( assuming he's legit ) by simply doing that. The fact that he doesn't makes people suspicious.
princessjas
09-12-2009, 04:35 PM
He HAS released his Birth Certificate and health records. He is also the most threatened President EVER. Do you think maybe the SS does not want him to release info that could possibly be used to futher endanger him....like wow, maybe he's keeping an allergy or something under wraps. His full transcripts from Harvard are available for review and it has been disclosed that he did not graduate with honors from Columbia, so I'm betting he didn't want the right wingers screeching about affirmative action...since it would basically be irrelevant anyway since he graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard. So what if he didn't buckle down freshman year...really. Also I have always thought it was crazy that the candidates ever release their detailed health records. That is such a horrifying invasion of privacy and strips them of all dignity. I was appalled that McCain released his, although at his age, I somewhat understood that maybe he wanted to show that he wasn't in excedingly poor health.
Cmon now, we just discussed the Birth Certificate. I know people are screaming fake, but saying he didn't release it just really sounds bad and enforces the Dems view that Conservatives will yell any ridiculous accusation to villanize the Dems. You're smarter than that and I've respected you for not resorting to those tactics. Please don't start now.
JayATee
09-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Just one question Jay and FM: You are troubled by the criticism thrown at Obama but did you feel the same way when Bush was under attack by the democrats and mainstream media?
I am not troubled by the criticism of Obama. Im troubled by the blatant disreguard for the facts.
bem401
09-12-2009, 04:45 PM
I am not troubled by the criticism of Obama. Im troubled by the blatant disreguard for the facts.
Now what facts have been disregarded?
It seems to me that your side is the one disregarding facts, not my side.
bem401
09-12-2009, 05:06 PM
He HAS released his Birth Certificate and health records. He is also the most threatened President EVER. Do you think maybe the SS does not want him to release info that could possibly be used to futher endanger him....like wow, maybe he's keeping an allergy or something under wraps. His full transcripts from Harvard are available for review and it has been disclosed that he did not graduate with honors from Columbia, so I'm betting he didn't want the right wingers screeching about affirmative action...since it would basically be irrelevant anyway since he graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard. So what if he didn't buckle down freshman year...really. Also I have always thought it was crazy that the candidates ever release their detailed health records. That is such a horrifying invasion of privacy and strips them of all dignity. I was appalled that McCain released his, although at his age, I somewhat understood that maybe he wanted to show that he wasn't in excedingly poor health.
Cmon now, we just discussed the Birth Certificate. I know people are screaming fake, but saying he didn't release it just really sounds bad and enforces the Dems view that Conservatives will yell any ridiculous accusation to villanize the Dems. You're smarter than that and I've respected you for not resorting to those tactics. Please don't start now.
He has not released his health records. He released a 1 page letter from his doctor. McCain released 1100 pages of health reports ( and Obama smokes!). This does not necessarily mean he has health issues.
He has not released his grades from Occidental. This does not necessarily mean his grades are bad. Actually he must have done OK because he was able to transfer to Columbia and that's harder to do than to be accepted out of high school.
He has not released his grades from Columbia. This does not necessarily mean his grades are bad.
He has not released his grades from Harvard Law. He did graduate Magna Cum Laude, but 10 years ago Harvard cut back on the honors they bestowed on graduates because they were becoming meaningless. I graduated from an Ivy League school and Harvard, particularly its post-grad programs, is notorious for grade inflation. My former coach graduated from Harvard and said the toughest thing about Harvard was getting up in time to watch the Hollywood Squares.
As to the birth certificate, what was done was they released an internet image of a document of dubious origin ( according to some ). This doesn't necessarily mean anything regarding his place of birth.
None of this may be particularly meaningful, but Jay accuses my side of blatantly disregarding the facts.
By the way, if you can provide a link to any of the documents you and I are in disagreement over, I will apologize profusely for having my facts wrong.
vmurphy252
09-12-2009, 05:53 PM
Do you think maybe the SS does not want him to release info that could possibly be used to futher endanger him....
You may want to use the full acronym USSS sounds better than SS...;D
bem401
09-12-2009, 06:04 PM
You may want to use the full acronym USSS sounds better than SS...;D
LOL, especially with all those Hitler analogies being thrown around by both sides. Talk about fuel for the fire!
miabella
09-13-2009, 02:50 AM
^^^I've just never understood why, if he has nothing to hide, he doesn't furnish his birth certificate, health records, and transcripts. He did promise the most transparent administration ever, did he not? He could make all this nonsense go away ( assuming he's legit ) by simply doing that. The fact that he doesn't makes people suspicious.
palin didn't even release the medical records she swore repeatedly she was going to provide. i don't see anyone right-wing screaming about how dishonest and deceptive that is, or about how she's got something to hide, clearly, since she couldn't even pony up some medical records.
funny, that. also none of them complaining about all the expensive clothes she stole from the rnc. but wow can they whine about how much money michelle obama's purse costs...
i personally suspect palin's hiding an abortion or two, which fits and has the benefit of being actually plausible.
instead she has a cult of personality that gets a total free pass, while obama is constantly berated and picked on without even having a chance to be in office long enough to do anything. bush did not receive this level of crap at the 8-9 month mark. neither did clinton, or bush the elder, or even jimmy bleeding carter.
obama is doing badly, but let's be honest. mccain would have all the same talking heads in place, and he'd be doing badly as well. much of the crusted-in administration carries over from prez to prez without a blip, and THOSE GUYS are the real problem, but damned if you can't dig them out.
it is always a diversion to pin everything on the guy in the big chair. that's what he is there for-- to divert focus from the people actually causing the problems (HI BEN BERNAKE AND TIMMAH GEITHNER).
without getting into the complexities of being president too much, obama is not doing exponentially worse in terms of decision making than any other president. he has many layers of people between him and any decision, and this is always true of presidents, since, er, the Great Depression, actually.
chill out, let the negro do his job for at least a full year before screaming about how he's more incompetent than J. Rich White Man that usually sits in the big chair not making most of the important decisions.
princessjas
09-13-2009, 08:06 AM
He has not released his health records. He released a 1 page letter from his doctor. McCain released 1100 pages of health reports ( and Obama smokes!). This does not necessarily mean he has health issues.
He has not released his grades from Occidental. This does not necessarily mean his grades are bad. Actually he must have done OK because he was able to transfer to Columbia and that's harder to do than to be accepted out of high school.
He has not released his grades from Columbia. This does not necessarily mean his grades are bad.
He has not released his grades from Harvard Law. He did graduate Magna Cum Laude, but 10 years ago Harvard cut back on the honors they bestowed on graduates because they were becoming meaningless. I graduated from an Ivy League school and Harvard, particularly its post-grad programs, is notorious for grade inflation. My former coach graduated from Harvard and said the toughest thing about Harvard was getting up in time to watch the Hollywood Squares.
As to the birth certificate, what was done was they released an internet image of a document of dubious origin ( according to some ). This doesn't necessarily mean anything regarding his place of birth.
None of this may be particularly meaningful, but Jay accuses my side of blatantly disregarding the facts.
By the way, if you can provide a link to any of the documents you and I are in disagreement over, I will apologize profusely for having my facts wrong.
Actually I started searching up this stuff...then realized....You just proved my sides point. Thanks. Nothing he can ever release is going to quiet this down. Google it. You can find copies of his birth cert, including some nice pictures of the raised seal. Honestly I wouldn't release anything else at this point either. After all the never-ending right wing rhetoric that basically has nothing to do with anything relevant, it's obvious that anything that can be release will be picked apart and there will be issues made over everthing.
I'm done now. Thanks once again. :P
bem401
09-13-2009, 10:40 AM
Actually I started searching up this stuff...then realized....You just proved my sides point. Thanks. Nothing he can ever release is going to quiet this down. Google it. You can find copies of his birth cert, including some nice pictures of the raised seal. Honestly I wouldn't release anything else at this point either. After all the never-ending right wing rhetoric that basically has nothing to do with anything relevant, it's obvious that anything that can be release will be picked apart and there will be issues made over everthing.
I'm done now. Thanks once again. :P
Look, the birth certificate isn't my issue. I've already said that. However, I recently lost my driver's license and had to produce a certified copy of my birth certificate to get a replacement license. I was not able to show an image off the computer and claim it as sufficient. Why doesn't he just show the original to somebody and end this? The fact that he resists doing so only makes him look guilty.
I'm far more interested in the other stuff you claimed was out there. Health records and transcripts, because, despite what you wrote, they absolutely have not been released.
bem401
09-13-2009, 10:52 AM
palin didn't even release the medical records she swore repeatedly she was going to provide. i don't see anyone right-wing screaming about how dishonest and deceptive that is, or about how she's got something to hide, clearly, since she couldn't even pony up some medical records.
funny, that. also none of them complaining about all the expensive clothes she stole from the rnc. but wow can they whine about how much money michelle obama's purse costs...
i personally suspect palin's hiding an abortion or two, which fits and has the benefit of being actually plausible.
instead she has a cult of personality that gets a total free pass, while obama is constantly berated and picked on without even having a chance to be in office long enough to do anything. bush did not receive this level of crap at the 8-9 month mark. neither did clinton, or bush the elder, or even jimmy bleeding carter.
obama is doing badly, but let's be honest. mccain would have all the same talking heads in place, and he'd be doing badly as well. much of the crusted-in administration carries over from prez to prez without a blip, and THOSE GUYS are the real problem, but damned if you can't dig them out.
it is always a diversion to pin everything on the guy in the big chair. that's what he is there for-- to divert focus from the people actually causing the problems (HI BEN BERNAKE AND TIMMAH GEITHNER).
without getting into the complexities of being president too much, obama is not doing exponentially worse in terms of decision making than any other president. he has many layers of people between him and any decision, and this is always true of presidents, since, er, the Great Depression, actually.
chill out, let the negro do his job for at least a full year before screaming about how he's more incompetent than J. Rich White Man that usually sits in the big chair not making most of the important decisions.
Palin? Who gives a shit about Palin? Talk about diversions! She has absolutely nothing to do with anything, Mia. She is old news, out of politics, probably gone for good.
Criticism about Obama has nothing to do with his race. C'mon, can't you find a better line of argument than that. It has to do with his fiscal policy, foreign policy, energy policy, national security policy, health care policy, environmental policy, immigration policy..... It has to do with the loonies he surrounds himself with. it has to do with apologizing for the US all over the world, befriending our enemies, and alienating our friends. It has to do with fighting the war in Afghanistan like its a police action and so much more.
He's done all this in 8 months. He's sunk us deeper into debt in 8 months than Bush did in 8 years. And you want to declare a moratorium on criticizing him till he's been in a year? What should we do, those of us who oppose what he's doing? Wait till the damage is irreparable?
princessjas
09-13-2009, 11:11 AM
Look, the birth certificate isn't my issue. I've already said that. However, I recently lost my driver's license and had to produce a certified copy of my birth certificate to get a replacement license. I was not able to show an image off the computer and claim it as sufficient. Why doesn't he just show the original to somebody and end this? The fact that he resists doing so only makes him look guilty.
I'm far more interested in the other stuff you claimed was out there. Health records and transcripts, because, despite what you wrote, they absolutely have not been released.
When I'm feeling better I will absolutely see what I can find on the documents mentioned. Health records are none of anybodies beeswax imo and therefore the statement and summary from his doc seems completely legit to me. As for the Birth Cert I assumed if it wasn't your issue you wouldn't have brought it up again. From the article I read it seemed that it HAD been shown to whoeverthecrap was necessary and an electronic copy was published online to quiet down this craziness (which once again, let me say thanks for perpetuating bad stereotypes...really helps out my side in keeping the moderate dems ;) you know I sorta kid there, but sorta not, you have to realize harping of the same things that have nothing to do with the real issues are what have lost the conservative base a lot of votes, my uncle and grandfather included and moved moderate dems like me so far left I can't even see the middle anymore). The college recs, I dunno about, it was a conservative article bashing him that I read that said his Harvard transcripts had been released. It was on one of those completely nutso, he's a nazi sites, so assumed if they admitted it, it was certainly true. Will searchie when I feel better..Promise. ;)
bem401
09-13-2009, 11:33 AM
I disagree regarding health records. When you elect someone for 4 or sometimes 8 yrs, his fitness for the job is an issue. If that person has cancer or a heart condition, it is absolutely relevant. McCain's age was an issue for those very reasons. He was ( and is ) more likely to have health issues in the near future than is Obama.
The birth certificate thing has not placated those who are challenging it and they don't seem to me to be any nuttier than the people on the left who defend Obama blindly. I have not really followed the issue that closely and only brought it up as one piece of evidence to show he hasn't lived up to his promise of transparency.
I will confess this though. I think the reason he won't release the transcripts is because he may have applied as a foreigner. I don't think he is particularly bright but not everyone is brilliant at such schools. I'm an example of that. I'm sure he could have done satisfactory work. I suspect he may have applied as a foreign student because that might have made it a bit easier to get in.
JayATee
09-13-2009, 01:11 PM
Now what facts have been disregarded?
It seems to me that your side is the one disregarding facts, not my side.
LoL. Yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect you to say.
miabella
09-13-2009, 01:49 PM
Palin? Who gives a shit about Palin? Talk about diversions! She has absolutely nothing to do with anything, Mia. She is old news, out of politics, probably gone for good.
Criticism about Obama has nothing to do with his race. C'mon, can't you find a better line of argument than that. It has to do with his fiscal policy, foreign policy, energy policy, national security policy, health care policy, environmental policy, immigration policy..... It has to do with the loonies he surrounds himself with. it has to do with apologizing for the US all over the world, befriending our enemies, and alienating our friends. It has to do with fighting the war in Afghanistan like its a police action and so much more.
He's done all this in 8 months. He's sunk us deeper into debt in 8 months than Bush did in 8 years. And you want to declare a moratorium on criticizing him till he's been in a year? What should we do, those of us who oppose what he's doing? Wait till the damage is irreparable?
she still pokes at obama through facebook, which is a backdoor way of remaining in the spotlight.
also, plenty of right-wingers believe she's eminently competent and that obama is completely incompetent. she's probably running for prez in 2012. she will lose, but in the meantime she is being sneaky and shady and getting rewarded for it among folks claiming to be Christian and God-fearing because she had 5 babies and kept her figure.
bem401
09-13-2009, 03:15 PM
LoL. Yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect you to say.
I notice you didn't list any disregarded facts on my part. Once again, rather than have a spirited debate, you turn it personal and don't support anything you assert with facts.
miabella
09-13-2009, 03:20 PM
you didn't state any facts, just assertions that are ungrounded.
bem401
09-13-2009, 03:29 PM
she still pokes at obama through facebook, which is a backdoor way of remaining in the spotlight.
also, plenty of right-wingers believe she's eminently competent and that obama is completely incompetent. she's probably running for prez in 2012. she will lose, but in the meantime she is being sneaky and shady and getting rewarded for it among folks claiming to be Christian and God-fearing because she had 5 babies and kept her figure.
It's called freedom of speech. Were you equally offended when Gore attacked Bush a few years ago or when any one of the other democratic political leaders did? I'm guessing probably not and that's fine. If you're going to give it when you're out of power, you've got to be willing to accept it when you are in power. Its the way our country works.
I don't know if she's competent or incompetent but I have no quarrel with her ideology. I don't know if Obama is competent or incompetent but I do have a problem with his ideology and Americans are increasingly opposing him and his ideology. I sure as hell hope she is not the standard bearer for the conservative view come 2012 because I think Obama will be very beatable at that point (but not by her IMO).
bem401
09-13-2009, 03:57 PM
you didn't state any facts, just assertions that are ungrounded.
Please elaborate on the facts I didn't mention.
He's taken over car companies, banks, and investment companies and plans to do so with health industries. All facts. He has a czar monitoring how much CEO's can make.
He's proposed cap and trade which is a de facto tax, which will cause energy prices to skyrocket and he's admitted this. A fact.
He has troops in Afghanistan fighting with one hand tied behind their backs. We are reading Miranda rights to enemy combatants. He wants to bring enemy detainees to American soil and afford them all the rights of a US citizen. All facts.
He has appointed avowed communists to positions of power in his administration. Van Jones is not the only one. There is some woman from Cali as well. Fact. He has appointed others who were ethically challenged ( Geithner, Richardson, Daschle) and either couldn't accept the post or had to do some fancy footwork to be confirmed. Fact.
I've never accused him of being a racist but you are judged by the company you keep. Some important figures in his past are clearly racists or enemies of this country: Wright, Ayers, Farrakhan, Gates, to name a few. Facts. Can you imagine if anyone on the conservative side had any ties to extremists how the press would be having a baby about it?
He has not released his actual birth certificate, just a computer image of what is claimed to be proof of his citizenship. He has not released his health records or school records, as is customary for people in his position to do .All facts.
miabella
09-13-2009, 04:31 PM
It's called freedom of speech. Were you equally offended when Gore attacked Bush a few years ago or when any one of the other democratic political leaders did? I'm guessing probably not and that's fine. If you're going to give it when you're out of power, you've got to be willing to accept it when you are in power. Its the way our country works.
I don't know if she's competent or incompetent but I have no quarrel with her ideology. I don't know if Obama is competent or incompetent but I do have a problem with his ideology and Americans are increasingly opposing him and his ideology. I sure as hell hope she is not the standard bearer for the conservative view come 2012 because I think Obama will be very beatable at that point (but not by her IMO).
you're talking to a minarchist. that means 'prefers the tiniest government possible'. it also means i am closest politically to lew rockwell, not democrats.
palin has no idealogy. she's just a vain woman who likes cameras on her at all times. she is too stupid to be interviewed by katie freaking couric.
i have no pony in this race politically (i still hope to see obama vs. huckabee in the thunderdome for 2012), but even i can see obama is getting mistreated far earlier into his term than previous J. White Guys.
it is ultimately about a black man in the big chair, regardless of what rationalisations are offered up falsely.
bem401
09-13-2009, 05:01 PM
you're talking to a minarchist. that means 'prefers the tiniest government possible'. it also means i am closest politically to lew rockwell, not democrats.
How can you not be against Obama then?
palin has no idealogy. she's just a vain woman who likes cameras on her at all times. she is too stupid to be interviewed by katie freaking couric.
Well, she's not my choice, but she is a conservative. I don't think she's electable, nor do I think Huckabee is either.
but even i can see obama is getting mistreated far earlier into his term than previous J. White Guys.
Well, eight years ago we were in the midst of 9/11, so let's state that right up front. People rallied behind Bush because we'd been attacked. Who exactly is mistreating Obama? You can only mean Fox and talk radio, because Obama has NBC, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, AP, the NY Times, Time Magazine, Newsweek Magazine, and the Washington Post firmly behind him.
it is ultimately about a black man in the big chair, regardless of what rationalisations are offered up falsely.
The only people who ever mention Obama's race are those on his side, nitwits like Janeane Garofalo, Olberman, and black politicians. The only reason this is brought up by people like yourself and the aforementioned people is because it is intimidating to whites who don't want to be called racists. Its straight up playing of the race card, only its not being played by his opponents, but by his supporters.
You ( and I don't know your race ) are making racially charged statements by referring to previous presidents as J. White Guys ( whatever that means). For the record, I disliked Clinton almost as much as I dislike Obama, and its based strictly on what they did, do, or propose to do, not the color of their skin.
miabella
09-13-2009, 08:02 PM
i am not on obama's side. my posts regarding his policies should make that reasonably clear. bush completely dropped the ball on 9/11 and has received pass after pass for goofing up that entire situation. other presidents were cut much more slack over and over again for difficult situations than obama. stating this fact doesn't mean i 'support' obama's policies.
bush was socialist, and so is obama. both of them suck/sucked, but there is a lot more defense of how bush wasn't really that bad, somehow, despite operating identically to obama in expanding the government pointlessly and passing a bloated healthcare crapfest.
the paranoia and 'no really, a black man has ROOINT the YEW ESS AY for life! in eight months! we are DOOOOOOOOMED' are complete aversive racism. no, obama hasn't ruined the usa in 8 months. bush and clinton and reagan and bush 1 did a bang-up advance job of ruination. as did fdr and kennedy and lbj. and nixon pulling us off the gold standard.
all that stuff was a bigger problem than anything stupid obama's doing, although certainly his stupid stuff isn't helping.
the usa was doomed due to an asset inflation bubble that happened on bush's watch. that bubble is the problem and any cleanup following is not really where the trauma lay.
it's like getting a fatal blood infection from an incompetent doctor and then complaining that a second incompetent doctor didn't give you good antibiotics. the infection is fatal, there is literally nothing that would work. crappy antibiotics are the least of your worries.
nobody would treat mccain or his wife the way obama and his wife have been ill-treated. respectful disagreement is apparently too much to give the 'uppity negroes' in the white house.
republicans voting against obama said 'he doesn't like dogs' because they are so completely not racist, you see, why on earth would you presume race had anything to do with their dislike of him?
as ever, lew rockwell's blog has something relevant to say on the matter:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/35663.html
i wish i could vote lew rockwell into office!
Almost Jaded
09-13-2009, 11:08 PM
:cry:
As an adult you should be free to do anything with any other adult, or adults that you both or all consent to. If you are not allowed to under threat of punishment fine or imprisonment then you are certainly not free. I also would be against it being taxed but that is much less of an absolute issue for me.
SDoe
IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
See it all at
I am all for the political debate but this thread is supposed to be about Legalizing Prostitution. I may join the argument but not in this thread and I am not yet sure how to start a new one.
SDoe
bem401
09-14-2009, 05:07 AM
I am all for the political debate but this thread is supposed to be about Legalizing Prostitution. I may join the argument but not in this thread and I am not yet sure how to start a new one.
SDoe
When you click on a forum, try clicking on "start a new thread"
bem401
09-14-2009, 05:12 AM
the paranoia and 'no really, a black man has ROOINT the YEW ESS AY for life! in eight months! we are DOOOOOOOOMED' are complete aversive racism. no, obama hasn't ruined the usa in 8 months. bush and clinton and reagan and bush 1 did a bang-up advance job of ruination. as did fdr and kennedy and lbj. and nixon pulling us off the gold standard.
Where has anyone ever said this except to criticize those who oppose Obama. Several of my friends can't stand Obama either and I've not heard a single one of them mention his race with the exception being its one of the main reasons he got elected.
Previous policies have had the US on the wrong path, but Obama is stepping on the accelerator big time .
victoriagivens
09-14-2009, 03:45 PM
I never could figure out a "victimless crime." If there is no victim, (consenting adults) how can there be a crime?
xdamage
09-14-2009, 04:51 PM
I never could figure out a "victimless crime." If there is no victim, (consenting adults) how can there be a crime?
I guess it's against the law to be a "sinner". but then in theory religious beliefs shouldn't be so deeply intertwined with our laws? In reality our heritage as a country has our laws being written and voted on by people who hold strong feelings about what two consenting adults can and cannot do (and not just for money, but in their private sex lives as well).