View Full Version : Good Idea or Not: Legalizing Prostitution
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Earl_the_Pearl
07-16-2009, 02:16 PM
HIS DECISION.
~~:-[~~
xdamage
07-16-2009, 02:39 PM
I used forced as in aggressive manipulation not actual physical force. It may not be a totally willing buyer as the blood flow has gone south.
Yea, I assumed so. Just the problem is it doesn't take much of a mental experiment to come up with an equally plausible degree of deniability for the dancer.
Like you can, if you want to see it that way, argue that she is not fully cognizant of the negative impacts (if any) on the customer, and in the situation believing it's all fair and reasonable. From a 3rd party POV, it is not all clear that either dancer or customer is any more or less responsible for what they choose.
Like nobody told the customer go the SC; he chooses it. Like there are endless clues that it is not real (that he is paying $20 every 3 minutes; that women never treated him this way in real life; that even after having talked to people who know better, some guys still fall hard having been told the score).
Just saying, I understand your sympathies lie with the customer cause that is natural to do. We tend to see things from whatever POV benefits us the most, but you can still wonder if everything was so cut and dry, why aren't the dancers seeing the same way? You end up with either having to conclude one party is responsible, one not, and thus the responsible part is evil on some level; or that both parties are responsible in which case... it's just a coin toss how you want to see it.
Also just one last thought. It's my old argument with GR. Short of signing a waver before entering a SC explaining all of this, in a way guys go to SC's to believe the fantasy, much the way people take drugs to get high.
It's inconsistent to both want your drugs to get you high, and the blame them for doing the job too well. Cake and eat too applies.
All that said, are there situations that clearly seem like one party has gone too far? Always gonna be. Life is full of messy gray areas like that, including that two people can be in the same situation, and see it from entirely different POVs about who is right and wrong.
Perry
07-16-2009, 03:23 PM
It is up to dancers to define what a dancer is or isn't. PLs have things forced on them that they were not looking for. http://forum.stripperweb.com/images/themes/sw4/icons/dizzy.gif
Yeah, because you're such a delicate little flower, right? Grow a pair.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-16-2009, 03:25 PM
Like you can, if you want to see it that way, argue that she is not fully cognizant of the negative impacts (if any) on the customer, and in the situation believing it's all fair and reasonable.
This got side tracked; it is more about a lack of PLs with money and club infighting. I can handle a one on one but it is just a business and I don't want to get caught in the cross fire. :no_way:
Earl_the_Pearl
07-16-2009, 03:38 PM
Yeah, because you're such a delicate little flower, right? Grow a pair.
Not my job; PLs get frisked upon entering but not the dancers. :O
I posted this and most said I deserved it. Now you say grow a pair; I have a pair and want to keep them.
verfolgung
07-17-2009, 06:17 AM
Not my job; PLs get frisked upon entering but not the dancers. :O ...
Frisked? In what way? Are you talking litterally or metaphorically? Do you mean as a security measure?
In the literal sense, I have never been frisked while entering a SC. There is a SC in my area that has a large walk-through metal detector, and there is another club in my area that after 6PM will run a magnetic wand over customers. Both of those clubs had shootings. Know what I would do? I'd go to different clubs.
Btw - if you are trying to compare being frisked for security reasons, which at most is a minor inconvenience, to being pratically mollested by customers in private dance areas, I don't think you're going to get a lot of sympathetic ears.
katalinda
07-17-2009, 06:46 AM
Yet supposedly Brothels and SCs stand side by side in Australia.
Hmm, I can't speak for the whole of Australia obviously, but at least in my state...they are generally separated by a good few kms or suburbs.
Brothels in my city seem to be kind of scattered in outer city areas, whereas the SC's are pretty much all in the same precinct.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 07:03 AM
Frisked? In what way? Are you talking litterally or metaphorically? Do you mean as a security measure?
Btw - if you are trying to compare being frisked for security reasons, which at most is a minor inconvenience, to being pratically mollested by customers in private dance areas, I don't think you're going to get a lot of sympathetic ears.
I mean patted down; as a metal detector would not pick up plastic shivs. The dancers can have guns and I can't. :(
Remember private dance areas are illegal in Newark as that would be wrong. ::)
verfolgung
07-17-2009, 08:33 AM
I mean patted down; as a metal detector would not pick up plastic shivs. The dancers can have guns and I can't. :(
Remember private dance areas are illegal in Newark as that would be wrong. ::)
Good! If they have to work under the conditions you constantly describe, more power to them! Perhaps your friend should have pulled out her piece when the "older less attractive dancer" approached you with lube on her hand and "forced" herself on you. ::)
Dude, you sound like you willingly frequent the lowest form of dive bar/SC's there are, then try to generalize those experiences as they way it is across the entire industry. If you really feel so vulnerable, and victimized, then grow a pair and go somewhere else.
... Why can't you do this? Oh yeah, as you've mentioned before, you're a PL. ::)
Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 10:21 AM
Dude, you sound like you willingly frequent the lowest form of dive bar/SC's there are, then try to generalize those experiences as they way it is across the entire industry. If you really feel so vulnerable, and victimized, then grow a pair and go somewhere else.
Of course i willingly frequent the clubs I chose. I go to the gentleman's clubs now and then; I like to see twenty dancers that are 8s and above but the dollar parade is a killer and I don't even see a nipple. They have so called VIP rooms but I would not pay $500 and hour even if Aphrodite wiggled on my lap.
I don't like the few nude New Jersey clubs even though they are mostly upscale. The dancers don't seam relaxed even though they are the lowest contact clubs.
I see that one of the better Las Vegas gentleman's clubs just had 13 dancers arrested for prostitution. I know mug shots are not the most attractive photos but these dancers look and do what I see in the "lowest form of dive bar/SC's there are".
charlie61
07-17-2009, 08:59 PM
^ Aww, really? I think some of them are cute. Especially considering how horrible mug shots are. We've all seen celebrity mugshots (like Lindsay Lohan) that look muuuuuch worse...
Cyril
07-17-2009, 09:04 PM
^ Aww, really? I think some of them are cute. Especially considering how horrible mug shots are. We've all seen celebrity mugshots (like Lindsay Lohan) that look muuuuuch worse...
You make a good point. :D
Almost Jaded
07-18-2009, 12:03 AM
There's a thread about it if you caare to read it. Everybody in that club is ecstatic that those girls are gone, the money got a LOT better for the clean girls. And they are representative of the middle of the road appearance-wise for THAT club, which is one of the better "lesser" clubs in Vegas. Compared to Sapphire or some of the others, it's nowhere near the top (no offense baby if you're reading this, lol).
femmefatale88
07-18-2009, 06:25 AM
It should be kept separate from the SC because it makes us girls who don't do extras have a hard time competing with the ones who do, not to mention dealing with guys who want to take it too far. It just really sucks. As for legalization outside of the SC, I really don't care as it doesn't really affect me.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-18-2009, 03:32 PM
^ Aww, really? I think some of them are cute. Especially considering how horrible mug shots are. We've all seen celebrity mugshots (like Lindsay Lohan) that look muuuuuch worse...
I like them I was just pointing out they look like the dancers in my kind of club called by another poster "lowest form of dive bar/SC's there are". Note quotation marks.
My favorite mug shots; my kind of people.
http://cdn.sheknows.com/celebrityphotos/2008/08/nick-nolte-mug-shot-2002.jpghttp://entimg.msn.com/i/ap/1282004/cf10201282238.jpeg
yoda57us
07-18-2009, 06:53 PM
There's a thread about it if you caare to read it. Everybody in that club is ecstatic that those girls are gone, the money got a LOT better for the clean girls.
This reminded me of a situation in my ATF's club that happened last fall. It was discovered that a group of four dancers there where involved in a prostitution ring and working with a pimp. They where not trying to drum-up OTC business in the club but they WHERE trying to recruit other dancers and one young girl ended up getting beaten up by the pimp. When club management got wind of what was going on they fired all four girls even though they where not hooking inside the club and where actually good earners (seems they had a quota to meet with said pimp even for their dancing revenue so all four where hustling their asses off!)
This might sound hypocritical coming from a guy who regularly pays escorts but I'm all in favor of keeping it out of the club.
JayATee
07-20-2009, 12:52 PM
This reminded me of a situation in my ATF's club that happened last fall. It was discovered that a group of four dancers there where involved in a prostitution ring and working with a pimp. They where not trying to drum-up OTC business in the club but they WHERE trying to recruit other dancers and one young girl ended up getting beaten up by the pimp. When club management got wind of what was going on they fired all four girls even though they where not hooking inside the club and where actually good earners (seems they had a quota to meet with said pimp even for their dancing revenue so all four where hustling their asses off!)
This might sound hypocritical coming from a guy who regularly pays escorts but I'm all in favor of keeping it out of the club.
It's not hypocritical Yoda bc you keep it OTC.
Almost Jaded
07-20-2009, 05:48 PM
Exactly.
That story woulda been so much better if the club bouncers had beat the pimp into a coma...
yoda57us
07-20-2009, 06:50 PM
Exactly.
That story woulda been so much better if the club bouncers had beat the pimp into a coma...
LOL, I would have loved to have written it that way too!
Unfortunately the a-hole pimp never set foot in the club. The dancers did have a quota they had to bring home very night and evidently they would get the crap beat out of them if they didn't make that quota.
Miss L
07-24-2009, 06:18 PM
NO, NOT EVERY CLUB HAS GIRLS WHO OFFER EXTRAS. If that went on at the two clubs I work at, I would not work there.
YES, prostitution should be legal, safe, and in the open. Prostitution is as old as civilization. So is exotic dance, erotic modeling (Greek nudes, anyone?), etc. etc. What legalization--if it were possible at all, globally--can do is oust pimps and the scumbags who traffic children and women against their will. They will no longer have nearly as much power. No one should have to die for their job! Plus, like it is in my town, stripping and prostitution will rarely be confused, since there are plenty of both and one is clearly a different experience than the other.
If that can't happen, I'd support a Sin City (the film, not vegas)-esque solution: a red light district completely run by the women themselves, who are all armed to the teeth and have the legal right to fire at will in order to protect themselves.
Amen.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-24-2009, 06:40 PM
... a red light district completely run by the women themselves, who are all armed to the teeth and have the legal right to fire at will in order to protect themselves.
Protect themselves against oh say a bad review on an escort review board?
Point of order; the poster used hyperbole and I answered in kind. Fer'get about it. :P
Miss L
07-30-2009, 02:49 PM
You have no idea what you are talking about. Hardly hyperbole. Have you any idea how much violence is inflicted on prostitutes and dancers, and is mostly ignored or pushed aside? How about ineffectual bouncers at best and managers who try to pimp girls out in worse places? Are you not aware that we live in a global society and that the suffering of women everywhere is our suffering as well?
The fact that you can't even pony up to go to a real gentleman's club just shows you're the kind of customer most dancers try to avoid--the one who always wants to get the most bang for his buck and would not know real empathy for dancers and other sex workers if it hit him with a truck.
goreantx
07-30-2009, 03:04 PM
(seems they had a quota to meet with said pimp even for their dancing revenue so all four where hustling their asses off!)
I watched a human trafficking documentary with some russian girls working at a high end club. They HAD to make $1000+ a night and all of it was taken away when they were escorted back to their safehouses.
It's amazing what girls can make at the club when they have no choice.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-30-2009, 03:17 PM
the one who always wants to get the most bang for his buck and would not know real empathy for dancers and other sex workers if it hit him with a truck.
Oh I do have empathy and the PL that shows empathy will be consumed and spit out. This goes for ALL clubs; don’t insult my intelligence.
If I were going to give my money away I would give it to the Salvation Army not a dancer. I pay for play don't expect pay for no play. I don't want a dancer to do anything she is uncomfortable with and would never ask her to. She should also not expect hundreds of dollars for a few minutes of talk.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-30-2009, 03:24 PM
I watched a human trafficking documentary with some russian girls working at a high end club. They HAD to make $1000+ a night and all of it was taken away when they were escorted back to their safehouses.
It's amazing what girls can make at the club when they have no choice.
How did these women get here and how did they get documents to work? It is a simple immigration matter and the club owner should be jailed if he broke imagination laws.
Almost Jaded
07-30-2009, 04:48 PM
Once again, Earl the Cyril lumping all dancers and sex industry workers into one group, and all customers into one other group.
'cuz you know, that works SO well...
I watched a human trafficking documentary with some russian girls working at a high end club. They HAD to make $1000+ a night and all of it was taken away when they were escorted back to their safehouses.
It's amazing what girls can make at the club when they have no choice.
And other people knew this was going on and didn't call the feds? REALLY? Earl the Cyril is close in targeting the club owners, but a little to narrow with his shot - ANYONE who knew the score and didn't call the local FBI branch or any number of other options is missing a couple of cards in thier respective decks!
yoda57us
08-01-2009, 07:55 PM
I watched a human trafficking documentary with some russian girls working at a high end club. They HAD to make $1000+ a night and all of it was taken away when they were escorted back to their safehouses.
It's amazing what girls can make at the club when they have no choice.
Yeah, my ATF used to really admire one of the girls for her hustle. Then she heard about the pimp story and realized the girl was getting beaten-up if she didn't make her quota...
yoda57us
08-01-2009, 08:06 PM
And other people knew this was going on and didn't call the feds? REALLY? Earl the Cyril is close in targeting the club owners, but a little to narrow with his shot - ANYONE who knew the score and didn't call the local FBI branch or any number of other options is missing a couple of cards in thier respective decks!
I wouldn't be so quick to assume that people outside of the dancers in question knew what was going on. Even if they did the fear that a woman has of being beaten by a man can be pretty intimidating even if she isn't working for the guy.
A trafficker is just a fancy word for a pimp and pimps rule by fear, intimidation and violence. They convince people that the police can not protect them. Their victims are coerced into thinking they have no options and that they will get beaten or killed if they talk. It would be nice if the whole world worked the way it is supposed to but it doesn't.
Gia2608
08-01-2009, 08:08 PM
Well I've learned most pimps here (as they are not part of organized criminal associations) are pussies and if you step up to them they will threaten your bf and never do any thing. Bitches.
yoda57us
08-01-2009, 08:57 PM
Well I've learned most pimps here (as they are not part of organized criminal associations) are pussies and if you step up to them they will threaten your bf and never do any thing. Bitches.
LOL, must be a warm weather thing...
Unfortunately they are a bit more hard-ass here in the Northeast. back in the days of Boston's Combat Zone I saw girls getting beaten on the street and guys beaten and stabbed for trying to help. As the street scene has been cleaned up the parasitic scum have moved their influence to Craig's List and to strippers when they can. Yes, they are cowards but the violence is all too real.
Jake39
08-02-2009, 12:37 PM
Should it be legal? - - - - > yes. I would love to see somewhere like Galveston have a special district where bikini clad call girls could freely solicit and interact with potential customers with convienent enjoyment rooms (mini hotel room) nearby. Unfortunately our society would rather give handouts to the banksters than invest in or encourage something which would be a viable business ordinary folks can enjoy.
Extras and non extras girls can co-exhist in a club but the club I where I am VIP is an extras friendly club and consequently the non extras gals are squeezed out. Many professional escorts use dancing to recruit clients and thrive well in extras friendly clubs performing their services both itc and otc. I run a two dimensional offense and use SC both for entertainment and to meet extras / escort girls (about 75-80% of my SC hobby related spending is with extras / escort girls). At a new club I will cycle thru the girls on shift (no more than 2 dances, if any) until I find the extras girl I am looking for.
I can understand the frustration of the non extras girls feeling out of place in an extras friendly club and agree with a prior poster these gals probably won't make much money there. The key for these gals is to find customers who aren't into extras and looking for a nice, friendly gal for company and (lap dance) fun plus probably avoid extras friendly clubs. Many of these guys are faithful to their wives but curious what other women may be like....what do they think, feel, etc. The key for a dancer to make a lot of money from these guys is for her to make him comfy and not rush him into stuff outside his comfort zone or flood him with drama plus sell the fantasy she is some kind of understanding friend he can relax with like for awhile after work. I am sure a lot of you ladies excel at this.
xdamage
08-04-2009, 08:08 AM
Extras and non extras girls can co-exhist in a club but the club I where I am VIP is an extras friendly club and consequently the non extras gals are squeezed out. Many professional escorts use dancing to recruit clients and thrive well in extras friendly clubs performing their services both itc and otc.
...
I can understand the frustration of the non extras girls feeling out of place in an extras friendly club and agree with a prior poster these gals probably won't make much money there. The key for these gals is to find customers who aren't into extras and looking for a nice, friendly gal for company and (lap dance) fun plus probably avoid extras friendly clubs. Many of these guys are faithful to their wives but curious what other women may be like....what do they think, feel, etc. ...
I would think they'd be better separated. Not just for the competitive reasons, but for two other reasons as well.
First, I think most married guys (as well as guys in relationships) would have a hard time with "Honey I'm going to a brothel tonight but to look only!"; at least having them clearly separated there is something to "Honey, I'm going to the Strip Club tonight". Even when I looked at our own laws where I lived, going to a brothel might be adequate to prove adultery where going to the SC clearly is not. I'm not talking about emotional cheating, just the legal definition in the state I live in.
Second, for dancers who are in relationships it's often a key factor that their S.O.s understand it is just a job, and no sex occurs. It's also easier for them to say "Honey I'm going to work tonight at the Strip Club" then to say "Honey I'm going to work tonight at the brothel but to let customers look only".
There are other reasons for having the dividing lines as well, such as prostitutes who offer sex may need to be tested for STDs regularly (a reasonable thing) vs dancers who only dance. Where the brothel can then reasonably say to work here you MUST have an up to date test, it becomes messy for them if they have to provide exclusions based on what the workers claim they do/don't do. For example, a worker might claim she doesn't engage in sex to avoid a test for whatever reasons. Short of constant policing it would be easier to just divide the lines up front into separate establishments.
jack0177057
08-04-2009, 10:07 AM
I would think they'd be better separated. Not just for the competitive reasons, but for two other reasons as well.
First, I think most married guys (as well as guys in relationships) would have a hard time with "Honey I'm going to a brothel tonight but to look only!"; at least having them clearly separated there is something to "Honey, I'm going to the Strip Club tonight". Even when I looked at our own laws where I lived, going to a brothel might be adequate to prove adultery where going to the SC clearly is not. I'm not talking about emotional cheating, just the legal definition in the state I live in.
Second, for dancers who are in relationships it's often a key factor that their S.O.s understand it is just a job, and no sex occurs. It's also easier for them to say "Honey I'm going to work tonight at the Strip Club" then to say "Honey I'm going to work tonight at the brothel but to let customers look only".
There are other reasons for having the dividing lines as well, such as prostitutes who offer sex may need to be tested for STDs regularly (a reasonable thing) vs dancers who only dance. Where the brothel can then reasonably say to work here you MUST have an up to date test, it becomes messy for them if they have to provide exclusions based on what the workers claim they do/don't do. For example, a worker might claim she doesn't engage in sex to avoid a test for whatever reasons. Short of constant policing it would be easier to just divide the lines up front into separate establishments.
Good points, specially about the testing... But, what about this -- What do you do to the girls that sell extras in the SC? Will it be a criminal offense with a penalty of incarceration? (This would seem harsh and hypocritical, specially when women at the brothel across the street are doing the same thing.) Or would the penalty be a fine only, like a $200 ticket. (This would seem like a slap on the wrist and a mere cost of doing business.)
From a purely business stand point, I think the SC/Brothel "one stop shop" makes better business sense, because bait-and-switch tactics would work very well in that environment. Guys like me would never go to a brothel. I have no moral opposition to prostitution, but I cannot jump into bed with a complete stranger whom I've never even talked to before, even if she is hot. However, in a SC, I can get to know a dancer through chatting, drinks and LDs. After a wonderful time with her and very sensual LDs, she'll ask if I want to rent a room for a more intimate and sensual experience. At this point, I'm under the influence of alcohol, I've got a crush on her, and I feel like I "know" her,... so sure, why not? (I've turned down extras at the SC, but they were probably due to bad timing - they were offered before rapport and intimacy was established.)
As far as protecting non-extras girls, I would make semi-nude dances with non-extra girls $20 per dance and nude dances with extras girls $40 per dance (but, they pay higher house fees, so it balances out). That way, guys who only want LDs would be more inclined to buy dances from non-extras girls. Another option is that only non-extras girls can provide LDs.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-04-2009, 10:34 PM
I would think they'd be better separated. Not just for the competitive reasons, but for two other reasons as well.
First, I think most married guys (as well as guys in relationships) would have a hard time with "Honey I'm going to a brothel tonight but to look only!"; at least having them clearly separated there is something to "Honey, I'm going to the Strip Club tonight". Even when I looked at our own laws where I lived, going to a brothel might be adequate to prove adultery where going to the SC clearly is not. I'm not talking about emotional cheating, just the legal definition in the state I live in.
Second, for dancers who are in relationships it's often a key factor that their S.O.s understand it is just a job, and no sex occurs. It's also easier for them to say "Honey I'm going to work tonight at the Strip Club" then to say "Honey I'm going to work tonight at the brothel but to let customers look only".
Prostitution is not legal so they can not be separated but it does give both dancer and PL plausible deniability. How do SC work in RI where prostitution is legal?
.
Almost Jaded
08-05-2009, 01:42 AM
Sheri's Cabaret - 18 & up, full nude, no alcohol, right off strip club row. Strip club environment, and all night from Sheri's Ranch you can catch a shuttle directly to...
Sheri's Ranch - legal brothel in Pahrump, nv, about 90 miles away.
Oddly, Sheri's Cabaret has fewer issues with extras girls than other clubs. Now why could THAT be...?
xdamage
08-05-2009, 04:34 AM
Prostitution is not legal so they can not be separated but it does give both dancer and PL plausible deniability. How do SC work in RI where prostitution is legal?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability)
.
I haven't been in RI.. ask yoda or bem.
Unfortunately the plausible deniability point is valid. There is to some degree both customers and prostitutes who would rather not openly admit to buying/selling sexual services.
xdamage
08-05-2009, 04:50 AM
Good points, specially about the testing... But, what about this -- What do you do to the girls that sell extras in the SC? Will it be a criminal offense with a penalty of incarceration? (This would seem harsh and hypocritical, specially when women at the brothel across the street are doing the same thing.) Or would the penalty be a fine only, like a $200 ticket. (This would seem like a slap on the wrist and a mere cost of doing business.)
In theory it could be handled like any other licensed situation (assuming it is legally regulated). So say... okay suppose on one side of the street there is a bar which is licensed to serve alcohol, and on the other side, a Friendlies which is not. Whatever fines and penalities would apply if the Friendlies serves their customers drink up to and including closing the facility.
From a purely business stand point, I think the SC/Brothel "one stop shop" makes better business sense, because bait-and-switch tactics would work very well in that environment. Guys like me would never go to a brothel. I have no moral opposition to prostitution, but I cannot jump into bed with a complete stranger whom I've never even talked to before, even if she is hot. However, in a SC, I can get to know a dancer through chatting, drinks and LDs. After a wonderful time with her and very sensual LDs, she'll ask if I want to rent a room for a more intimate and sensual experience. At this point, I'm under the influence of alcohol, I've got a crush on her, and I feel like I "know" her,... so sure, why not? (I've turned down extras at the SC, but they were probably due to bad timing - they were offered before rapport and intimacy was established.)
Well now you are touching on a key point that also can be a sore spot for some.
A large number of men in our culture (and women) simply do not want to be having sex with prostitutes because of all of the negative connotations on multiple levels.
So yes there are many customers that prefer the situation be such that sex is off limits, but IF 'she really likes me I might be the special one she makes an exception for' And the extra's girls also know this on some level and bank off it in a way they could not bank in a setting like a brothel.
Still, it is funny how little people care about bigger issues, like how few people are arguing the high ground reasons (e.g., it is her right to choose what to do with her body) and how much it really comes down to the same type of personal lobbying that prevents anything but slow progress. So let me say it from that point of view.
One real reason prostitution remains illegal is that it would require law makers and politicians to have their names associated with laws that would have many spouses, busy-bodies, and do-gooders happily destroying their future careers. There is nothing obviously in it for them to push very hard vs just laying low and remaining on the fence.
jack0177057
08-05-2009, 09:07 AM
^^^ True, but again, in my particular case... I have no "negative connotation" issues with prostitution. Philosophically and morally, I support a woman's choice (assuming it to be 100% voluntary and not through any external pressure) to profit from her sexuality, instead of "giving it up for free".
My reluctance to visit a brothel is just caused by my personal need to get to know the person a little before jumping in the sack with her... The SC/brothel works, because I get to know her through chats and dances... Then, either on that same visit, or a subsequent visit, I could feel comfortable with her enough to buy full service... The SC/brothel allows for comfort-building and progression at your own pace.
I wonder how prostitution became legalized in Nevada -- What politicians drafted the bill and presented it... Who backed them up... What opposition they confronted... and how the battle unfolded and was concluded. There is probably a good history book out there about this.
verfolgung
08-05-2009, 09:26 AM
... I wonder how prostitution became legalized in Nevada -- What politicians drafted the bill and presented it... Who backed them up... What opposition they confronted... and how the battle unfolded and was concluded. There is probably a good history book out there about this.
Did they have to pass a law to legalize it, or did they simply NOT have to pass a law against it? My impression is that the practice was historically tolerated in the area, and then over time laws were enacted to help regulate and control certain aspects of it.
For example in the 70's amidst worry that prostitution would spread to Las Vegas they passed a population limit making prostitution illegal in counties above a min population threshold. This of course implies that it's legal in areas below the limit.
Of course, I could be wrong.
xdamage
08-05-2009, 09:28 AM
^^^ True, but again, in my particular case... I have no "negative connotation" issues with prostitution. Philosophically and morally, I support a woman's choice (assuming it to be 100% voluntary and not through any external pressure) to profit from her sexuality, instead of "giving it up for free".
My reluctance to visit a brothel is just caused by my personal need to get to know the person a little before jumping in the sack with her... The SC/brothel works, because I get to know her through chats and dances... Then, either on that same visit, or a subsequent visit, I could feel comfortable with her enough to buy full service... The SC/brothel allows for comfort-building and progression at your own pace.
Sure, same basic drives expressed a bit differently.
I'm guessing if you want to pay her $500 or whatever the going rate is to talk for an hour vs having sex, and get to know her? you could ask for that. I suspect it is a common enough request and even prostitutes can build regular customers who build emotional attachments.
But okay, I'd guess the more common case is in an SC sex is supposedly off-limits so it's a bigger ego stroke to believe one is being treated special, getting to know them, etc. ("I only do this for you baby" is more effective in a SC).
I think SCs and Brothels should be well separated but that doesn't mean that I think prostitutes shouldn't ever act like strippers. If the entertainers in brothels do a strip tease first, if they chat it up, whatever I don't think anyone in the community could possibly object to that. Dancers might feel it threatens their income but society wide once the law allows sex, most anything SC like would presumably be permitted too.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Still, it is funny how little people care about bigger issues, like how few people are arguing the high ground reasons (e.g., it is her right to choose what to do with her body)
The reasoning behind it is it causes harm if not to the person the area around it; much like the former argument against gambling.
jack0177057
08-05-2009, 01:11 PM
If the entertainers in brothels do a strip tease first, if they chat it up, whatever I don't think anyone in the community could possibly object to that. Dancers might feel it threatens their income but society wide once the law allows sex, most anything SC like would presumably be permitted too.
I've never been to a brothel, so I don't know... Does it work like this in the NV brothels? -- Can I visit and just ask for LDs from a prostitute or just buy them drinks and chat with them,... until I eventually, after a few visits, I feel comfortable and attracted to one,... or would this be like going to a SC to chat with dancers without the intention of buying any LD? I've seen the Bunny Ranch HBO show, and it appears that there is a little bit of conversation before sex, but not much.
xdamage
08-05-2009, 01:25 PM
I've never been to a brothel, so I don't know... Does it work like this in the NV brothels? -- Can I visit and just ask for LDs from a prostitute or just buy them drinks and chat with them,... until I eventually, after a few visits, I feel comfortable and attracted to one,... or would this be like going to a SC to chat with dancers without the intention of buying any LD? I've seen the Bunny Ranch HBO show, and it appears that there is a little bit of conversation before sex, but not much.
No idea but I assume you can't waste their time like you might get away with in a SC and screw around for hours with no intention of paying.
I also don't quite understand the question...
I thought we were talking about a hypothetical future in which SCs and Brothels existed side by side.
In that future, if you said instead of $X/hour to have sex I'll pay you the same $X/hour to just lie here clothed and tease and whatever, the answer will be yes or no. If no you could leave. If yes how would it be different then doing the same with a stripper except that you know if you want sex next visit it's a sure thing?
In that hypothetical future why wouldn't the girls willing to do dances now, take pay for acting like a GF, plus do extras in the club, be willing to do the same in a brothel? I don't see it as a lot different then a stripper receiving $500 an hour just to sit in the VIP room and talk and drink vs lap dancing. If that is what you want, easy money for them. I suppose some few might be so introverted they'd rather have sex then talk, but you're bound to find some willing to just talk and lie around IF you pay them the same as you would for sex.
jack0177057
08-05-2009, 02:36 PM
I also don't quite understand the question...
I thought we were talking about a hypothetical future in which SCs and Brothels existed side by side.
I wasn't talking about the hypo anymore, I was coming back to reality... I was just wondering whether a guy can get to spend some time with the NV prostitutes and build some rapport and comfort (LDs, chatting and drinks), before jumping in bed with them... Just curious...
My ideal legalized prostitution scenario would consist of SC exactly the way they are today, except for: (1) the extras would not be illegal and (2) the SC would have nice cozy bedrooms for the extras. Also, some regulations are probably good (like STD testing) to protect both the prostitute and the customers.
minalynx
08-05-2009, 03:09 PM
Since prostitution is legal and regulated in Nevada & Rhode Island, and they haven't spontaneously combusted (as far as I know), I think it could be a good idea IF properly executed. No forced, child or immigrant prostitution though. Only consensual, victimless buying & selling of sexual services. Tax it and improve our school & health care systems for cryin' out loud!
Earl_the_Pearl
08-05-2009, 03:09 PM
I've never been to a brothel, so I don't know... Does it work like this in the NV brothels? -- Can I visit and just ask for LDs from a prostitute or just buy them drinks and chat with them,... until I eventually, after a few visits, I feel comfortable and attracted to one,... or would this be like going to a SC to chat with dancers without the intention of buying any LD? I've seen the Bunny Ranch HBO show, and it appears that there is a little bit of conversation before sex, but not much.
There are as many different brothels as there are customers. If you have the money you can find one that will cater to any taste.
In fact it was common for brothels to have live entertainment and a "parlor" for ladies and gentlemen to talk and socialize. "After several years as an itinerant pianist in brothels and saloons, Joplin settled in St. Louis about 1890".
Otoki
08-06-2009, 07:00 AM
Since prostitution is legal and regulated in Nevada & Rhode Island, and they haven't spontaneously combusted (as far as I know), I think it could be a good idea IF properly executed. No forced, child or immigrant prostitution though. Only consensual, victimless buying & selling of sexual services. Tax it and improve our school & health care systems for cryin' out loud!
Once again, it is NOT regulated in RI. That's the problem.
Almost Jaded
08-06-2009, 11:05 AM
The reasoning behind it is it causes harm if not to the person the area around it; much like the former argument against gambling.
Yeah - seriously - gambling has turned Vegas into a real shit-hole. It has especially prevented new people from moving here and stunted growth immensely. :rolleyes:
Jack - you can absolutely chat with the girls 'first'. Many customers hang out in the bar/lounge and either get their personal courage/comfort level up, or just get to know a few entertainers until they find one they feel they click with. Par for the course.
jack0177057
08-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Jack - you can absolutely chat with the girls 'first'. Many customers hang out in the bar/lounge and either get their personal courage/comfort level up, or just get to know a few entertainers until they find one they feel they click with. Par for the course.
Good to know... Thanks.
yoda57us
08-06-2009, 07:01 PM
Prostitution is not legal so they can not be separated but it does give both dancer and PL plausible deniability. How do SC work in RI where prostitution is legal?
How do they work? Depends on the club. One club built four private booths with full doors about three years ago when the loophole was first publicized and told the girls that they could do whatever they wanted in them and they would not be watched. The club gets 35 bucks for fifteen minutes in the booth and the dancer negotiates her fee with the customer. Over the years this particular club has pretty much beome a brothel. Most of the "dancers" there are glorified streetwalkers and some of them even have their pimps in the club with them. It's just about impssible to make money in this club without having sex with your customers.
Other clubs are much less extreme. Most of them have a mix of girls who give heavy extras. some extras or no extras. The percentage varies from club to club. Contrary to what one might think there are girls who have been fired for openly offering blatant extras even though the state of RI might not consider them to be illegal. Dancing is still primarily a self-policing industry and if enough girls complain about a dancer she will be gone. I actually know one dancer who has been fired from three clubs and in all three cases it was other dancers who put pressure on management to get rid of her.