View Full Version : Two infuriating questions.
JayATee
07-01-2009, 12:15 PM
Yeah, I get that dancers are not generally interest in custies (I am a little dense, but I finally got),... I was referring to the 3 or 4 dancers on this forum that have met their BF in the SC... Even if its just 1 out of 100 dancers that is available and seeking a BF (you're not because you're married)... I'm saying a guy would make a better impression by not getting a LD (and therefore, avoiding the dirty "custie" label), but paying something for the dancer's time so as to show he understands her job and not to piss her off (specially, if she is having a bad night)...
I'm saying you're wrong. There's nothing special about the ones who don't versus the ones who do. Case in point: I have met one guy that if I wasn't married I would date in a heartbeat. He's absolutely my type. How would he have "landed me"? Easy, he bought enough private dances with me to keep me all to himself for an entire night, during which time we did nothing but hang out and talk. At the end of the night he tipped me enough money that he didn't cost me any by not being on the floor all night, and it was one of the best nights (not monetarily) that I've ever had. Trust me, if I were single I'd be with him, and if he hadn't bought time with me in the beginning he wouldn't have had that shot.
This whole "don't buy" idea is soooo ridiculously wrong. That's not what impresses us. All the books geared towards this idea are silly. You're not going to impress a dancer by showing us how cheap you are.
commanderadama
07-01-2009, 12:17 PM
^^^ Funny I just read through your Romance On The Job thread and those who did meet SO's at work typically said that they started off as customers. (Did you see some of the posts I pasted?)
I know what the dating tip books and sites try to advocate as a hustle technique. My experience has been that getting dances or not getting dances is not the determining factor in whether a customer and dancer will get together. IMHO to avoid getting dances as a way to somehow make a better impression doesn't necessarily work.
The one I dated 10 years ago was totally her idea. Like I've mentioned I'm only interested in STR's. So a SC buddy I met in the states takes me to Canada one night. I'm my picky self, so there is only one stripper in the place that strikes my fancy. Since I was new to things across the border I was in shock with what you could do during the dance. All I did was complement her and caress her. I came up the next 5 weeks in a row, I bought 5 or 6 dances each week, I ignored all the other girls. (I always came around midnite, the club closed at 2) My sixth time she invites me out to after work drinks across the border (Bars open til 4). While we're out she asks for my phone number, she called the next day.
She liked that I was into her not what she did. (I'm into any skinny woman) She thought I was funny. She liked that I wasn't poor. She liked my occupation. Thus thought I'd be a good provider. We ended because she had a gambling problem and I'm not interested in being a provider. The later ends most of my relationships with women.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm saying you're wrong. There's nothing special about the ones who don't versus the ones who do. Case in point: I have met one guy that if I wasn't married I would date in a heartbeat. He's absolutely my type. How would he have "landed me"? Easy, he bought enough private dances with me to keep me all to himself for an entire night, during which time we did nothing but hang out and talk. At the end of the night he tipped me enough money that he didn't cost me any by not being on the floor all night, and it was one of the best nights (not monetarily) that I've ever had. Trust me, if I were single I'd be with him, and if he hadn't bought time with me in the beginning he wouldn't have had that shot.
This whole "don't buy" idea is soooo ridiculously wrong. That's not what impresses us. All the books geared towards this idea are silly. You're not going to impress a dancer by showing us how cheap you are.
Well, then you're a terrible business person. If a guy spends that much money tipping you and you start dating him, you've just annihilated that source of income... I would NEVER date my highest paying clients...
The concept is this: (1) if you buy dances you become a "customer" and a source of income... which is incompatible with being a BF, and (2) if you buy dances you become a horny PL like every other guy in the SC...
Also, from the guy's standpoint, if I spend shitload of money on a dancer and she treats me special, I have no way of knowing whether she really likes me or not... and ALL the threads on this subject have been unanimous --- she only likes him as a customer...
Athenathefabulous
07-01-2009, 01:10 PM
She said there was only one person she would have dated, out of too many customers to count. Perhaps you have had a lot of high paying clientelle; if one came along who was perfect, maybe you would reconsider. I dont consider seeing one customer out of lots and lots bad business. Bad business is making a habit of dating customers or worse yet, looking for dating prospects among the customers.
Dating a cheap customer is shitty business practice. Why? Because it promotes the idea that cheap customers can come into bars and pick up strippers, which hurts the overall strip club business way more than one dancer finding one perfect guy.
I havent dated any customers. However, it is not impossible that one will come in one day who is my ideal sig other. If this guy pissed me off and struck me as a timewaster first, then i wouldnt talk to him long enough to know that. Also, like Jayatee said, why date a cheap guy? I make a lot of money and i expect any guy i date to make what i make plus or minus some (actually there is no upper bound to that, but there is certainly a lower bound); im not willing to support some lowlife. perhaps it sounds snooty to say i wont date someone who makes significantly less than me, but ive seen too many situations of men mooching off of their stripper girlfriends to get involved with something like that. Id rather date someone who i knew was successful who wouldnt be asking to borrow money or have a complex about making less than me.
Perhaps buying private time with good money for a while and not getting dances and allowing me to keep my dress on is the best option. But wasting my time and giving me almost no money because you think i will meet you OTC if you dont buy a dance is fucking retarded, end of story. It doesnt make you stand out, it just groups you in with all of the other assholes that come in and make my job difficult.
JayATee
07-01-2009, 01:10 PM
Well, then you're a terrible business person. If a guy spends that much money tipping you and you start dating him, you've just annihilated that source of income... I would NEVER date my highest paying clients...
The concept is this: (1) if you buy dances you become a "customer" and a source of income... which is incompatible with being a BF, and (2) if you buy dances you become a horny PL like every other guy in the SC...
Also, from the guy's standpoint, if I spend shitload of money on a dancer and she treats me special, I have no way of knowing whether she really likes me or not... and ALL the threads on this subject have been unanimous --- she only likes him as a customer...
And you don't want me to call you an idiot. Im not responding to this. It's going to get stupid like every single other time I've tried to explain something to you because you are completely and totally clueless. Done in this thread now too. ::)
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 01:18 PM
Perhaps buying private time with good money for a while and not getting dances and allowing me to keep my dress on is the best option.
I agree. That's what I said.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 01:28 PM
And you don't want me to call you an idiot. Im not responding to this. It's going to get stupid like every single other time I've tried to explain something to you because you are completely and totally clueless. Done in this thread now too. ::)
Why can't we both be right without either of us being an "idiot"? Is it possible that some dancers (of the 1% that we are talking about) will prefer not to be asked for a LD and some will prefer to be taken to the VIP - by their potential suitor?
I have heard dancers say (in this forum and in conversation with them in the SC) - that what impressed them about their BF (who they met in the SC) was that he did not ask for a dance from them or anyone else at the SC... Unless these dancers lied when they said this (for what reason?), there is at least some dancers that prefer this... So, I can't be totally wrong... and I'm sure that you're not totally wrong, either... Can we compromise? Or,... are you too argumentative to agree to a compromise?
verfolgung
07-01-2009, 01:28 PM
... The concept is this: (1) if you buy dances you become a "customer" and a source of income... which is incompatible with being a BF, and (2) if you buy dances you become a horny PL like every other guy in the SC...
Also, from the guy's standpoint, if I spend shitload of money on a dancer and she treats me special, I have no way of knowing whether she really likes me or not... and ALL the threads on this subject have been unanimous --- she only likes him as a customer...
Jack, yes the concept is understood, and well documented in several "How To Pick Up A Dancer" guides. What myself, JayATee, all the women who made posts which I copied into my previous post and even commanderadama have stated is that this is not the absolute truth.
You're claim that "ALL the threads" have been unanimous is also false. Like you said in your first post, there is a large group of dancers who will not date any SC customer. No matter if your buy a dance or not, they are not going to date someone who walks through the door. ... Then there is a much smaller subset of dancers (you mentioned 3 to 4) who might consider dating a SC customer. Of that smaller group, many got to know their customers better, and were better able to decide the type of people they were by giving them dances.
No one is saying you have to spend a "shit load", but that buying dances is not necessarily a deal breaker. How do you know if it is genuine? Well once you start to date outside of the club, you stop being a customer. This is where many would be SOs fail, in that they want to be both a SO outside, and remain a customer inside the club.
----------------------------
ETA: Jack, you just posted before this one was made, and you re-qaulified that "some" may not want to date paying customers, while "some" might be alright with that. I think this is the point we were trying to make, and that it was not a unanimous conclusion that the best approach is to turn down dances.
Athenathefabulous
07-01-2009, 01:39 PM
I agree. That's what I said.
I guess i didnt complete that thought... I was going to say that is the best option, but i dont think it matters way too much if they want dances too, especially if they are polite and keep their hands to themselves. However, buying lots of dances is better than sitting at the bar trying to pick up strippers and stand out by slightly insulting them (i think i read this on a site once) and then not spending any money on them. I dont hold it against people for liking lap dances... hell i like lap dances. What i do hold against them is being grabby and not respecting boundaries.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 01:45 PM
ETA: Jack, you just posted before this one was made, and you qaulified that "some" may not want to date paying customers, while "some" might be alright with that. I think this is the point we were trying to make, and that it was not a unanimous conclusion that the best approach is to turn down dances..
Nothing is absolute... We can only speak in generalities...
Let's say, I really like a dancer,... I'm not just trying to get in her pants, but I actually want to get to know her and initiate what could possibly become a LTR... and she is available... and she is in the 1% that would actually date someone she met in the SC...
I don't know whether or not taking her into the VIP would be a "deal-breaker" or not,... it depends... On the other hand, I don't think she would be offended if I let her keep her clothes on, relax, chat... and I tip her for her time... So, why take any chance at all with taking her to the VIP room... why gamble?
Athena seems to agree...
Perhaps buying private time with good money for a while and not getting dances and allowing me to keep my dress on is the best option.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 01:50 PM
However, buying lots of dances is better than sitting at the bar trying to pick up strippers and stand out by slightly insulting them (i think i read this on a site once) and then not spending any money on them.
Yeah, I agree... Should the SCs require a minimum purchase of 4 or 5 dances that you pay in advance with your cover fee?
Athenathefabulous
07-01-2009, 01:51 PM
I don't know whether or not taking her into the VIP would be a "deal-breaker" or not,... it depends... On the other hand, I don't think she would be offended if I let her keep her clothes on, relax, chat... and I tip her for her time... So, why take any chance at all with taking her to the VIP room... why gamble?
Athena seems to agree...
ahem... I specified private time, and by that i meant vip or whatever the club calls it time. This means spend lotsa money and tip well on a private room (CR, vip room, private suites... different clubs have different names) and when you get there tell her to keep her clothes on if she chooses. This way she is making money. Also, its quieter in vip room. I didnt mean tip her 20$ for talking to you for 15 min at the bar....
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 01:55 PM
ahem... I specified private time, and by that i meant vip or whatever the club calls it time. This means spend lotsa money and tip well on a private room (CR, vip room, private suites... different clubs have different names) and when you get there tell her to keep her clothes on if she chooses. This way she is making money. Also, its quieter in vip room. I didnt mean tip her 20$ for talking to you for 15 min at the bar....
Well, give me an exact figure here... Are we talking about $100, $200,... $500,... $1,000?
verfolgung
07-01-2009, 02:00 PM
... why gamble?
Since we both agree that nothing is absolute, please understand I'm no longer trying to argue that point.
The interesting thing that I have found is that it can sometimes be more of a gamble to break from a dancer's normal routine. Without already having known you, to turn down a dance and offer to just sit back and relax can sometimes cause red flags to go up. This can actually turn out to be a bigger gamble than you intended, since now she may be asking herself what you are really after.
Sometimes it's better off to just go with the normal course of action, at least the first time, until she gets to know you a little better.
Also, like many have already posted about the customers they ended up dating, giving dances was a opportunity to learn that the guys were polite and respectful.
NikkaR
07-01-2009, 02:10 PM
And before you condemn the existence of these "pickup books," realize that your next customer who spends $200 on you might be a guy who read my book and was inspired to visit your club because of it.
No one is condemning the books; many of us are just laughing at them because they're so absurd. And I think it's fair to say that most of us are also cringing when guys who read these books come into the club and waste our time for free while we're there to work and make money. If a man comes in the club, and proceeds to "tease" me and "bust on" me with his "cocky confidence" and then asks for my number without spending a dollar, as your website suggests, I don't think he's a "sincere, fun, cool, attractive guy." I guarantee you that at least 98% of the other dancers on this site won't either. Instead, we think he's a rude, cheap loser.
Furthermore, do you see a logical flaw in your assertion that a customer who spends $200 in the club may have been inspired to do so by reading your book or visiting your website, both of which advocate NOT "spending your hard-earned money" on strippers?
. . . and the rest will buy dances and feel intimidated by your beauty and forget about trying to pick you up.
What assholes! Paying for entertainment services, understanding that this is how dancers earn money, and engaging in the demeaning act of fair economic exchange!
I love going to the clubs, I have a ton of friends who are dancers and I respect the job and have no tolerance for guys who disrespect the women. But isn't it sort of crazy to say "I NEVER DATE CUSTOMERS" when once in a while, you wind up talking to a guy who actually is pretty cool, and single, and into you? Why not give it a shot, as long as he understands your job and your situation?
Anyone who enters the club with the intention of using a dancer's services and not compensating her accordingly understands neither her job nor her situation. While there's nothing strange or disrespectful about two people meeting and cultivating a relationship in the club, it IS extremely disrespectful to enter my place of business, use my time, then treat it as if it's worthless.
Athenathefabulous
07-01-2009, 02:10 PM
a half hr of my undevided attention is 200+tip, an hr 400+tip. there is also a 5 song private option where i work for 100, but if you were legitimately trying to convince me that you are something special, it would take more than 15 min to know that. Since im not looking for dating prospects at work (we both agree thats bad business), the customer would have to hold my attention strongly enough for a period of time for me to notice whatever it is that sets them apart from the PLs. All sorts of people of all types come through my job; after a while they all blur together and i feel like ive met the same person over and over again even if i havent. So yea a significant amount of private time and financial incentive for me to legitimately provide attention would be necessary to have even a chance to hold my attention OTC for free.
If someone hands me a 20 to sit around and chat after turning down a dance, then i will stay for like 2 songs while scouting other prospects, suggest that we talk where its more quieter in VIP, and if that fails then I will git. The dance rate is 20 a song, and after i make my pitch the rate to keep me around so i dont feel like im wasting time is pricey.
The VIP/CR rooms are the only things that really guarantee focus. In the sales pitch we often state that it is away from the distractions and more intimate, mostly because it helps us sell but its also true.
So to break everything down:
If you strike me as a timewaster and spend very little money i am not going to provide any thought into so chances of getting with me: 0%
Spend a lot of money in vip chances that I will give you undivided attention: 95%
Chances that my undivided attention from vip will lead to me dating you: .1%
So either way you would probably be SOL, which is why you might not want to 'gamble' (although your 'gamble' would lead to quality entertainment in the VIP room well worth your $$$, which should be why you are in the tittie bar to begin with). However, the only way you could get a slight chance was through spending money. So as you can see, for the most part, this whole debate is moot. So go to your local strip club, drop money on your favorite dancer, have fun, and have no expectations except for quality entertainment. That way we all win ;).
Fred Farkel
07-01-2009, 02:37 PM
Quite apart from customers who may be taking a page from some "How to Date Strippers" guide, there are a fair number of customers who are simply willing to take full advantage of the typical economic model of a strip club. Those customers simply view the dancers on stage as the "free" entertainment which justifies the club charging above-market rates for a drinks possibly a door charge. The fact that the dancers don't make a dime other than off selling dances and/or getting tipped, and that they are actually paying the club fees and commissions to work is irrelevant to them. I don't know of any club that will kick out a customer who's paying for the overpriced booze simply because he isn't buying any dances or tipping the dancers who join him at his table. Your compliant is as much if not more with the clubs that have universally adopted this business model as it is with the customers who exploit it to your disadvantage.
JayATee
07-01-2009, 02:42 PM
Why can't we both be right without either of us being an "idiot"?
Bc you seem to think you know more and are smarter than all of us that are in this business. As much as I'm sure you would love to be considerably more involved, you are a spectator. You know nothing about any of this, and speak like you know all.
And for the record, I didn't actually call you an idiot. I marveled at the fact that you didn't want me to and then posted that.... gem.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 02:49 PM
a half hr of my undevided attention is 200+tip, an hr 400+tip. there is also a 5 song private option where i work for 100, but if you were legitimately trying to convince me that you are something special, it would take more than 15 min to know that. Since im not looking for dating prospects at work (we both agree thats bad business), the customer would have to hold my attention strongly enough for a period of time for me to notice whatever it is that sets them apart from the PLs. All sorts of people of all types come through my job; after a while they all blur together and i feel like ive met the same person over and over again even if i havent. So yea a significant amount of private time and financial incentive for me to legitimately provide attention would be necessary to have even a chance to hold my attention OTC for free.
If someone hands me a 20 to sit around and chat after turning down a dance, then i will stay for like 2 songs while scouting other prospects, suggest that we talk where its more quieter in VIP, and if that fails then I will git. The dance rate is 20 a song, and after i make my pitch the rate to keep me around so i dont feel like im wasting time is pricey.
The VIP/CR rooms are the only things that really guarantee focus. In the sales pitch we often state that it is away from the distractions and more intimate, mostly because it helps us sell but its also true.
So to break everything down:
If you strike me as a timewaster and spend very little money i am not going to provide any thought into so chances of getting with me: 0%
Spend a lot of money in vip chances that I will give you undivided attention: 95%
Chances that my undivided attention from vip will lead to me dating you: .1%
So either way you would probably be SOL, which is why you might not want to 'gamble' (although your 'gamble' would lead to quality entertainment in the VIP room well worth your $$$, which should be why you are in the tittie bar to begin with). However, the only way you could get a slight chance was through spending money. So as you can see, for the most part, this whole debate is moot. So go to your local strip club, drop money on your favorite dancer, have fun, and have no expectations except for quality entertainment. That way we all win ;).
I agree... let's go to the VIP room...
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 03:06 PM
Bc you seem to think you know more and are smarter than all of us that are in this business. As much as I'm sure you would love to be considerably more involved, you are a spectator. You know nothing about any of this, and speak like you know all.
And for the record, I didn't actually call you an idiot. I marveled at the fact that you didn't want me to and then posted that.... gem.
I don't think I know more or am smarter than anybody... If I don't contribute my comments, than I am only left to ask questions...
I just think out loud and wait to be proven wrong... and I've admitted I'm wrong about a lot of things... Also, I like to debate,... as you do, too,... but, I mean no offense to anybody...
And, even though you didn't technically call me an idiot,... you expressed a strong desire to do so... which is just a sneaky way of doing it...
JayATee
07-01-2009, 03:29 PM
Expressing your views is one thing. Arguing them to the death even though 5 ppl tell you you're mistaken is acting like an idiot. Sorry, but thats a fact. And again, I didn't call you any names at all. If thats what you want to believe it's your problem, not mine. Truthfully Im sick of this whole thing. So like I said, stepping out now.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 03:43 PM
Expressing your views is one thing. Arguing them to the death even though 5 ppl tell you you're mistaken is acting like an idiot. Sorry, but thats a fact. And again, I didn't call you any names at all. If thats what you want to believe it's your problem, not mine. Truthfully Im sick of this whole thing. So like I said, stepping out now.
So, if 5 people tell me I'm wrong, I should resign my position?...
Okay,... I'll follow your rule and see if you like me any better... But, you must agree not to call me an "idiot" until 5 people disagree with me and I continue to argue...
Everyman
07-01-2009, 03:46 PM
Shit, if we've started to talk percentages, let's try to work the problem out logically. These percentages are entirely guesses but we need hard numbers to illustrate the point.
60% -- dancers who would never date anyone who walks in as a SC customer. Put this block to the side as they are completely irrelevant, nothing you do will ever get a date.
Of the remaining 40% who might date a general customer, there are only 3 possibilities:
1 - they would not date anyone who paid them specifically
2 - they would ONLY date someone who paid them specifically
3 - whether the potential male date-ee pays or not is not a factor in the dating decision.
Therefore, if your goal is to date a stripper, the logical thing to do is PAY them if you believe there are more 2s than 1s; and NOT PAY if you believe there are more 1s than 2s.
ETA: oh yeah my guesses at percentages. About half the 40% it probably doesn't matter -- they would date a guy they found hot and interesting whether he paid her or not. So this is a full 80% (60+20) where pay doesn't matter.
Of the remaining 20%, my layman's guess is that about 15% wouldn't date a guy who pays and becomes a PL customer, and 5% wouldn't date a guy unless he pays her and spends time with her. So IMO more 1s than 2s, and if these percentages are right about a 3-to-1 better shot at bagging someone if you don't pay than if you do.
Don't shoot me, it's just math!
gameover
07-01-2009, 04:06 PM
First, I have no desire to date a stripper. I just enjoy going to the club and getting some dances and having my ego stroked by pretty women.
But, I think it is funny that the dancers say that the not spending money approach won't work on 99% of the dancers. But a 1% success rate ain't all that bad, especially considering that the guys that are doing this are only paying for a few overpriced drinks instead of shelling out 100's of dollars on dances that will likely go to the dancers who don't date customers anyway. If a guy talked to 10 dancer's a night, in 10 visits he'd statistically find a receptive dancer.
I knew a guy in college that used to say, if you go up to 50 women and say wanna f*ck, that 49 would slap your face, and one would say yes. I don't know if he really used this line, but he did go after lots of women at a party, and he never left alone. :)
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 04:14 PM
Jack, perhaps I missed something. Did the 3 or 4 dancers you're referring to specifically say that getting dances was a deal breaker?
Oh yes if a PL wants to date a hot stripper all he has to do is spend the rent money on her. It works every time. ::)
CherryBomb954
07-01-2009, 04:16 PM
I don't think they're all "pick up artists" though. I think many (even most) of them are just genuinely confused by the concept of a strip club. I sense defensiveness and emotional anguish from too many of them to be pick up artists. They're just lonely and desperate, and want actual companionship, but then feel that it's disingenuous (which of course it is) when they realize we want to get paid for it, and get all butthurt..
Agreed. I used to get so pissed at these types, but as time has passed I have started to strongly believe that alot of guys just don't "get it" They don't have any alterior motives or plans, they just simply are in the dark about the inner workings of a SC.
Kind of like the guys who will point to a few one dollar bills that I am counting and say "Wow, you're making a killing tonight!" .....again another example of just not "getting it"
I had about $40 dollars on me the other night, after working for nearly 4 hours. It was all 5's and 1's except for 1 ten dollar bill. As I was giving a guy a dance, he saw it strapped to my ankle and goes "Wow! Mrs. Moneybags!! You're doing great tonight, huh???" I told him "no" and he didn't understand. I had to then explain about house fees and whatnot. He was totally blown away. I also exlplained how long I had been working to earn that little and it was like :O
Like I said just another example......but anyway I can sympathize big time with the OP and the situation at hand. It happens to me alot too. I try to avoid it at all costs but it ends up rearing it's ugly head anyway.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 04:31 PM
Well, give me an exact figure here... Are we talking about $100, $200,... $500,... $1,000?
How much do you have in your wallet and how much can you get on credit; that is a good amount. Of course you will let her do private dances with other customers as you want to show her you are a liberated PL that is sure of himself.::)
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 04:38 PM
How much do you have in your wallet and how much can you get on credit; that is a good amount. Of course you will let her do private dances with other customers as you want to show her you are a liberated PL that is sure of himself.::)
Hey, I just made peace with everyone... Leave me out of this...
JayATee
07-01-2009, 04:48 PM
So, if 5 people tell me I'm wrong, I should resign my position?...
Okay,... I'll follow your rule and see if you like me any better... But, you must agree not to call me an "idiot" until 5 people disagree with me and I continue to argue...
Another beautiful example of you not getting it. And now I have yet another male to put on ignore. I won't call you an idiot anymore. Im about to remove your posts from my view altogether.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 04:51 PM
But, I think it is funny that the dancers say that the not spending money approach won't work on 99% of the dancers. But a 1% success rate ain't all that bad,
Not every PL has a 1% chance of dating a dancer. Most have 0%; perhaps .1% have a 1% chance of dating .1% of the 1% that may date a PL if he approaches her during a blue moon.
Those numbers are approximate. ::)
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 04:59 PM
Another beautiful example of you not getting it. And now I have yet another male to put on ignore. I won't call you an idiot anymore. Im about to remove your posts from my view altogether.
I though I was being reasonable... I give up! Good bye...
mediocrity
07-01-2009, 05:06 PM
Nothing is absolute... We can only speak in generalities...
Let's say, I really like a dancer,... I'm not just trying to get in her pants, but I actually want to get to know her and initiate what could possibly become a LTR... and she is available... and she is in the 1% that would actually date someone she met in the SC...
I don't know whether or not taking her into the VIP would be a "deal-breaker" or not,... it depends... On the other hand, I don't think she would be offended if I let her keep her clothes on, relax, chat... and I tip her for her time... So, why take any chance at all with taking her to the VIP room... why gamble?
Athena seems to agree...
Why can't you do that in the VIP? When I met my SO, as I have said, he bought 5 hours of VIP time with me. You think I danced for 5 hours? We mostly just sat, drank, and had a fun time together. I may have danced 4 songs the entire time. What he was paying for was the privacy, to be out of the noise, and have one-on-one time. I liked the fact that sure, he was handsome, articulate, and well educated... but he also wasn't a cheap ass. Still isn't.
BTW, I was the one who asked for his number, not vice versa.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 05:27 PM
I liked the fact that sure, he was handsome, articulate, and well educated... but he also wasn't a cheap ass.
So there we have it; if a man is handsome, articulate, well educated and has money he has a 1% chance of dating a dancer. :yes:
verfolgung
07-01-2009, 05:37 PM
^^^ Well you can say that if you are talking about someone trying to date all dancers, which I don't think I know of any man who wants to date any woman who happens to be a dancer (perhaps Cyril is an exception - j/k).
You might also say that that particular guy had close to a 100% chance of dating that particular dancer simply because of who he was and who she was. Like you said earlier, could be all or nothing, while everyone else had a 0% chance.
Lies, damn lies & statistics! ;)
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 05:40 PM
You might also say that that particular guy had close to a 100% chance of dating that particular dancer simply because of who he was and who she was.
Lies, damn lies & statistics! ;)
What if that dancer was married? His chances would have dropped at least 10%. :-\
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 05:54 PM
Why can't you do that in the VIP? When I met my SO, as I have said, he bought 5 hours of VIP time with me. You think I danced for 5 hours? We mostly just sat, drank, and had a fun time together. I may have danced 4 songs the entire time. What he was paying for was the privacy, to be out of the noise, and have one-on-one time. I liked the fact that sure, he was handsome, articulate, and well educated... but he also wasn't a cheap ass. Still isn't.
BTW, I was the one who asked for his number, not vice versa.
He must be loaded... That must have cost like a couple of thousand dollars... I make $150k a year and I couldn't afford to pay for 5 hours in the VIP room...($40 for every 5 min song = $2,400) Was he hoping to pick you up, or was that totally unexpected?...
IF I was smitten with a dancer (which has happened 1 or 2 times in my lifetime - and usually after an established dancer/custie relationship, which kind of defeats my own argument) and really wanted her to notice me (and thought I had a chance)... I would pay her for her time without asking her to take off her clothes... in the VIP room is fine...
On average, I spend about $250 taking a date to a nice restaurant and comedy show (with her clothes on the whole time), so spending approximately that in the VIP would be reasonable, even if she kept her clothes on... If I really liked this girl, I'd prefer the nudity to start on the third date...
Almost Jaded
07-01-2009, 05:57 PM
Earl is making sense again - or I'm losing it so it just looks that way... :P
Athena on the money as always...
Look past all th efluff and fun in this threada and a couple girls - who by the by happen to be dating guys they met ITC - have spelled it out in a couple of posts (Hey author guy - it doeesn't take a book!) very plainly for all to see.
THEN I go and say something DUMB like - but the author guy has a point, and his system will work more often than we all seem to think.
*ducks to avoid Jay, Athena, and Mediocrity, and 5 other girl's flying shoes*
I'll explain...
Remember, the negative stereotype of "The Stripper" exists for a reason. The same reason negative racial stereotypes are persistant. Because all too often, they fit. And that, my friends, is why he can claim his system works.
The "act like a cocky confident prick, mildly insult her, and act like you're too good to buy a dance" routine will work all too well if your sole goal is to land in bad with a stripper from the club AND you don't care which dancer you take home. Because the codependent, probably drug addicted not cut out for a real job dancer with zero self esteem might just jump at it if you're halfway cute and the tiniest bit intelligent (smart enough to read a pickup book written at a 5th or 6th grade level will likely suffice). Sad. Very sad. Also too damned true.
If we eliminate "those" girls from the list, than Earl's math is about right, lol.
I'll raise the bar - I would never date a girl I met ITC. NOT because I have a problem with her job, etc, - but becuase I would never in a millionn years go to a club to pick up a dancer! THEY'RE AT WORK!! Insert comments made a million times in this thread - I wouldn't know if she meant it when she said she liked me, wouldn't know how t handle a situation where on a real date I am being respectful and cautious - but I already know what she looks like naked and have had SOME form of intimate contact with her so the lines might be blurry and I might offend without meaning too, either by being to forward ("Just because I'm a stripper doesn't mean you can do that!") or not forward enough ("Jesus, quit being such a prude!)... And on and on. Ask MissMynxx how easy it was to give me her number, lol. And what our first couple of dates were like!
I'm rambling. Sorry.
If you want to pick up on a dancer who is not the type mentioned above ITC, realise a few things and here are what tips can be given:
1. - It's probably not going to happen - accept that as gospel.
2. - If you don'tspend any money, you are wasting her time.
3. - You will need to spend time talking to her one on one so she can - if she's willing which she's probably not - get to know you for more than your wallet. Which means spending money on her.
4. - You'll need to show interest in her, and since you most likely didn't get her number the first night, that means going back a couple times at least - and spending money on her.
5. - After you've spent a significant amount of time and therefor a not insigificant amount of money for the opportunity to get to know her and her you, the odds might be better than Earl's math, but not by much.
There's my book. ;)
JayATee
07-01-2009, 06:00 PM
Why can't you do that in the VIP? When I met my SO, as I have said, he bought 5 hours of VIP time with me. You think I danced for 5 hours? We mostly just sat, drank, and had a fun time together. I may have danced 4 songs the entire time. What he was paying for was the privacy, to be out of the noise, and have one-on-one time. I liked the fact that sure, he was handsome, articulate, and well educated... but he also wasn't a cheap ass. Still isn't.
BTW, I was the one who asked for his number, not vice versa.
Thank you. This is precisely what I was saying when I told almost the same exact story in my post. THIS is what makes the difference. It's not NOT SPENDING.
mediocrity
07-01-2009, 06:16 PM
He must be loaded... That must have cost like a couple of thousand dollars... I make $150k a year and I couldn't afford to pay for 5 hours in the VIP room...($40 for every 5 min song = $2,400) Was he hoping to pick you up, or was that totally unexpected?...
IF I was smitten with a dancer (which has happened 1 or 2 times in my lifetime - and usually after an established dancer/custie relationship, which kind of defeats my own argument) and really wanted her to notice me (and thought I had a chance)... I would pay her for her time without asking her to take off her clothes... in the VIP room is fine...
On average, I spend about $250 taking a date to a nice restaurant and comedy show (with her clothes on the whole time), so spending approximately that in the VIP would be reasonable, even if she kept her clothes on... If I really liked this girl, I'd prefer the nudity to start on the third date...
My VIP is hourly or half hourly, not per song, but it is $400/hr. He also tipped me on top of it and my VIP host.
No, he was just in LV for the Superbowl and was with 9 or 10 other buddies, so he wasn't hoping to "pick me up" (I hate that expression.. ugh). He went for an initial half hour when I asked, then abandoned his group to stay with me. He even had to ask them later what the score on the game was, because even though he had bet on it, he lost interest in the game pretty quickly.}:D
Yes, he is very well off. But he is also a total gentleman about it. When we hung out with my best friend one night during one of his visits to me (he lives in a city that's about a 70min flight away), he made reservations at a very expensive restaurant and paid for BOTH of us. She wasn't expecting him to pay for her, and was really impressed. He's definitely one of those people that if you just saw him out, you'd never guess he was wealthy.
gameover
07-01-2009, 06:17 PM
1. - It's probably not going to happen - accept that as gospel.
2. - If you don'tspend any money, you are wasting her time.
3. - You will need to spend time talking to her one on one so she can - if she's willing which she's probably not - get to know you for more than your wallet. Which means spending money on her.
4. - You'll need to show interest in her, and since you most likely didn't get her number the first night, that means going back a couple times at least - and spending money on her.
5. - After you've spent a significant amount of time and therefor a not insigificant amount of money for the opportunity to get to know her and her you, the odds might be better than Earl's math, but not by much.
There's my book. ;)
1) Agreed.
2) Totally disagree. I don't think most of the dancers on this board are representative of the the dancers you see in a club. Once you spend money on them, you are a customer. period. If you are spending money on dancers while you look for a receptive dancer you are just throwing your money away.
3) Of course you need to talk to her. But if you pay her while you do it, you are a customer. Not that there is anything wrong with that :)
4) Sure you'll need to see her more than once, but spending money won't help you.
5) After you've spent alot of money on her, you have totally become a customer, you're odds of dating her are zero.
There's my book.
I don't go to the clubs to pick up dancers. I just go to the clubs for an enjoyable night (and I do spend way too much money there).
But, I think the approach they are recommending offers the best chance (at the lowest cost) to pick up a dancer. I know the dancer's here disagree, but again, they are much more educated, intelligent, savvy, etc than the dancer population as a whole, in my opinion.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 06:23 PM
No, he was just in LV for the Superbowl and was with 9 or 10 other buddies, so he wasn't hoping to "pick me up"
I have heard this before; if a dancer does date a PL he is not the type of PL that would go to strip clubs. He was there but he only goes once in a blue moon.
mediocrity
07-01-2009, 06:25 PM
I have heard this before; if a dancer does date a PL he is not the type of PL that would go to strip clubs. He was there but he only goes once in a blue moon.
Yup. It was more like we met at the strip club by coincidence, not because he is an avid patron. I actually think that made it easier and more realistic. My club is the only club he really loves to go to, and it's only a few times a year.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 06:26 PM
My VIP is hourly or half hourly, not per song, but it is $400/hr. He also tipped me on top of it and my VIP host.
No, he was just in LV for the Superbowl and was with 9 or 10 other buddies, so he wasn't hoping to "pick me up" (I hate that expression.. ugh). He went for an initial half hour when I asked, then abandoned his group to stay with me. He even had to ask them later what the score on the game was, because even though he had bet on it, he lost interest in the game pretty quickly.}:D
Yes, he is very well off. But he is also a total gentleman about it. When we hung out with my best friend one night during one of his visits to me (he lives in a city that's about a 70min flight away), he made reservations at a very expensive restaurant and paid for BOTH of us. She wasn't expecting him to pay for her, and was really impressed. He's definitely one of those people that if you just saw him out, you'd never guess he was wealthy.
That's really awesome... But, very few young guys can spend that much money in the VIP room...
verfolgung
07-01-2009, 06:27 PM
...
2) Totally disagree. I don't think most of the dancers on this board are representative of the the dancers you see in a club. Once you spend money on them, you are a customer. period. If you are spending money on dancers while you look for a receptive dancer you are just throwing your money away.
...
5) After you've spent alot of money on her, you have totally become a customer, you're odds of dating her are zero.
To be completely fair, ANYTHING done while PURPOSELY looking for a receptive dancer is probably a waste of time.
Okay, so ignore the ladies who actually say that they have dated customers and follow the advice of those trying to sell their questionable pick up routines.
... But, I think the approach they are recommending offers the best chance (at the lowest cost) to pick up a dancer. I know the dancer's here disagree, but again, they are much more educated, intelligent, savvy, etc than the dancer population as a whole, in my opinion.
Well duh, anything that advocates not spending any money will be the "lowest cost" alternative. Heh.
(Btw - Are you really looking to date ignorant, inept, uneducated people?)
mediocrity
07-01-2009, 06:29 PM
That's really awesome... But, very few young guys can spend that much money in the VIP room...
He's not that young. ;) 39.
jack0177057
07-01-2009, 06:36 PM
He's not that young. ;) 39.
Now, you've offended me... I'm 37 and I consider myself "young"...
gameover
07-01-2009, 06:39 PM
Well duh, anything that advocates not spending any money will be the "lowest cost" alternative. Heh.
(Btw - Are you really looking to date ignorant, inept, uneducated people?)
I told you I'm not looking to pick up a dancer. But if your goal was to "bag" a stripper, I would assume that you wouldn't necessarily be looking for intelligent conversation.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-01-2009, 06:42 PM
(Btw - Are you really looking to date ignorant, inept, uneducated people?)
People, no; dancers, :D.
Almost Jaded
07-01-2009, 06:49 PM
I told you I'm not looking to pick up a dancer. But if your goal was to "bag" a stripper, I would assume that you wouldn't necessarily be looking for intelligent conversation.
Thus the other part of my post. ;)
The "quality" girls won"t consider dating you anyway, thus the five points. I think I got it pretty right; if you're going to the SC to get a date or a lay, and you're not interested in the lower percentile of the girls, you're wasting your time. If you're going to try anyway, you're going to spend a lot of money and your still most likely wasting your time. If you keep at it and spend a LOT of money, you'l eventually catch the right girl on the right day, LOL. Myself and the other guys fortunate enough to be dating the girls who tell that story were lucky, plain and simple - and in each case (I MIGHT be wrong, I haven't met their SO's, but as a betting man I know where my money would be) we were certainly NOT in the club for the purpose of piking up a dancer!
JayATee
07-02-2009, 12:06 AM
Once you spend money on them, you are a customer. period. If you are spending money on dancers while you look for a receptive dancer you are just throwing your money away.
You're a customer regardless. Why the fear of being a customer? This is bull and has already been disproved by dancers . You wanna shot? You better shell out some $$$. Otherwise forget it.