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Elvia
07-04-2009, 02:57 PM
I have explained this before. I go to a club and the bar is around the stage; I have to sit at the bar. There could be as many as 20 dancers and 5 customers. A set lasts 20 minutes and I can't tip most dancers more than a dollar a set, $60 an hour. Some of these women come by ever three minutes and hold out their bra strap. I tell them I gave you a dollar for this set, do they smile and say OK. No they get bitchy. Now the dancers that show a little nipple will get another tip.

I don’t want anything form a dancer that she is not willing to give; I expect the same from them. It is a business and I will not be brow beaten into bad business practices. Many PLs are brow beaten and they leave because they can’t say no. Now there are even less customers.



Why do you HAVE to sit at the bar? Are there not any tables at this establishment?

Earl_the_Pearl
07-04-2009, 03:21 PM
Why do you HAVE to sit at the bar? Are there not any tables at this establishment?
Tables? You have to come down from your Ivory Tower. I suppose you think there is food too like chips and Slim Jims. ::)

Most clubs use all of the space for the bar, it twists around the entire room; I guess they can't push drinks if people are hiding.

In our totally nude clubs we have a setup like you are used to. There is a stage with no bar just a rail so my face is up-close and personal. There are many tables in the back. The one time a year I go to one of those I tip every dancer every time she comes by and never sit at a table. Those dancers have to put on a bit of a show so I don't mind.

We can't ass/u/me we all have the same type of setup or laws. In Newark no dancer ever sold a private dance as they are illegal.

JayATee
07-04-2009, 03:28 PM
^Don't make me get in an argument with you. ;)

I don't disagree. I was just trying to provide a clarifying term for one of the sticking points in the debates happening. People were saying that they weren't a customer because they hadn't paid. Just trying to take that out of play.

I wasn't singling you out I swear. I just used your post as a jumping off point for the thought itself.

vmurphy252
07-04-2009, 04:07 PM
uh huh :::pouts:::

Trem
07-04-2009, 07:54 PM
Most strip clubs i've been in you gotta pay to get inside anyways so right of the bat you are a customer.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-04-2009, 07:58 PM
Most strip clubs i've been in you gotta pay to get inside anyways so right of the bat you are a customer.
OK a customer is: someone who pays for goods or services. One can be a customer of the club and not be a customer of a dancer. I one is not a customer of a particular dancer to her he is a time waster.

lopaw
07-04-2009, 08:17 PM
To the club management, I am a customer.
To the dancers, I am a client.

Seems simple enough.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-04-2009, 08:37 PM
To the club management, I am a customer.
To the dancers, I am a client.

Seems simple enough.
You are a client only if you pay her same as a customer. That is what the dictionary says.

JayATee
07-04-2009, 09:08 PM
^None of these definitions change the fact that you are a customer ITC. And it also doesn't explain what the problem is with being referred to as a customer which is in fact, what you are.

verfolgung
07-04-2009, 09:10 PM
^^^ Well Earl says he's a PL, so I say we all simply just agree with him. ;)

Earl_the_Pearl
07-04-2009, 09:19 PM
^^^ Well Earl says he's a PL, so I say we all simply just agree with him. ;)
Damn you beat me to it; a customer is the nicest thing we can be called.

vmurphy252
07-04-2009, 11:01 PM
I withdraw my suggestion. A change in terminology wouldn't (and didn't) simplify things.

And I have no problem with being a customer.

JayATee
07-04-2009, 11:08 PM
^ LoL.

No for real, Im actually really trying to understand this. What is the problem guys seem to have (and Im not saying anyone specific here) with being a customer?

vmurphy252
07-04-2009, 11:14 PM
It started with the whole pickup thing. The Manswers thing about dancers wouldn't go home with you if you had paid them for anything.

JayATee
07-04-2009, 11:18 PM
Yes but there are guys in this thread who are patrons of the clubs and refuse to let themselves be identified as customers even though they do buy dances or tip on stage.

vmurphy252
07-04-2009, 11:23 PM
^Well, I am definitely not one of the ones in that group, so I can't explain it...

Earl_the_Pearl
07-04-2009, 11:51 PM
Yes but there are guys in this thread who are patrons of the clubs and refuse to let themselves be identified as customers even though they do buy dances or tip on stage.
It is not that anyone cares what he is called it is the definition of customer. It started with if a PL doesn't tip a cretin dancer is he a customer of hers. He is of course a customer of the club and any dancer he tips.

Almost Jaded
07-05-2009, 03:19 AM
Because honestly I wouldn't jerk anyone off for $20, $200, or $2000. Young or old.

And I was THIS close to coming by the Rhino to see you, too. Well nevermind now! :P

The question re the Manswers crap and the pickup books is answered over and over in this thread. The bottom percentile of strippers might fall for it. If that's what you're there for, prepare for a lot of disappointment, and understand that most (really all) of the girls will think you're a worthless piece of crap and a waste of time. GREAT way to start your 'game'!

If you go to a SC, go for what it is, not to pick up girls Plan on spending money. If there;s a girl you like, spend the money to get real alone time with her and MAYBE something MIGHT come of it. Certainly better odds than the other way, though that's not saying much, lol.

In that light, splitting hairs over the 'customer' thing is ridiculous; we have established that scenario A (being the one where there would even need to be a distinction) is stupid. Scenario B (being the better option however you play it, unless you just don't want to spend any money in which case GTF out of the SC) leaaves no room for distinction between customer or not, client, whatever - and anybody fitting scenario B woudn't care.

See - clear as mud. Where's the issue?

:rolleyes: :P:

gameover
07-05-2009, 08:23 AM
Yes but there are guys in this thread who are patrons of the clubs and refuse to let themselves be identified as customers even though they do buy dances or tip on stage.

I do buy dances and tip on stage, and I don't mind be called a customer. It's definitely a step up from being referred to as a PL. :)

But while I could agree that anyone who enters a strip club is a customer of the club (they at least pay a cover charge), they aren't necessarily a customer of a dancer.

When they tip a dancer, or buy a dance from the dancer, they become that dancer's customer. Until then, they aren't a customer (even though many dancers will think of them that way).

vmurphy252
07-05-2009, 08:33 AM
Did anyone see all those nits? I think we should go pick them...:)

gameover
07-05-2009, 08:47 AM
Did anyone see all those nits? I think we should go pick them...:)

Well, if you can't handle the nits, you can at least fall back on picking strawberries. Less skills required than that nit picking thing.

vmurphy252
07-05-2009, 09:09 AM
Mmmm, strawberries.

Well, I think I released the first nit, so it's really my fault.

verfolgung
07-05-2009, 11:10 AM
... When they tip a dancer, or buy a dance from the dancer, they become that dancer's customer. Until then, they aren't a customer (even though many dancers will think of them that way).

What's the point of trying to define something if there is no perceived difference anyway?
Seems like a futile waste of time and energy.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-05-2009, 11:13 AM
Seems like a futile waste of time and energy.
That's what makes the interweb great. :duel:

vmurphy252
07-05-2009, 11:17 AM
What's the point of trying to define something if there is no perceived difference anyway?
Seems like a futile waste of time and energy.

I know I started the customer/patron thing, but I agree with this wholeheartedly.

JayATee
07-05-2009, 11:47 AM
^Yup, you'll notice I didn't respond....

Earl_the_Pearl
07-05-2009, 11:49 AM
^Yup, you'll notice I didn't respond....
Yes you did. :P

vmurphy252
07-05-2009, 11:57 AM
^Yup, you'll notice I didn't respond....
Not sure what you're referring to, but ok.

gameover
07-05-2009, 03:03 PM
What's the point of trying to define something if there is no perceived difference anyway?
Seems like a futile waste of time and energy.

Because I'm bored.

And because "many" is not all. And because spending further reinforces the "customer" perception.

I'm not arguing the fact that the dancers responding here have no interest in dating a customer. I'm sure they don't and won't. I'm not sure that as one mentioned, they all think of us as a "mark", whether we are spending or not.

There are all kinds of dancers, some have just broken up, are on a rebound, are lonely,some are just be looking for a fling, or may be just attracted to a guy. Just because they are at work doesn't mean they can't hook up with a guy. Heck, look at how many relationships get started at work.

For those dancers that are open to the idea of meeting a guy at work, or are just in a receptive mood, I don't think spending money on them will help your chances with them at that point in time. I don't think buying dances in the club will help if the intent is to get a date. Sure, buy them a drink, be nice, supportive, etc. But moving further into the customer/dancer roles will kill your chances to move beyond that into dating.

Again, I'm sure that the dancers responding to this thread are 100% correct. That this won't work FOR THEM, and it is 100% the wrong approach to take FOR THEM. I'm not arguing that point.

What I am arguing is that not all dancers are alike, some will be receptive to meeting guys at work, and for those that are receptive, not buying dances is the best approach, or at least does not lessen one's chances, and it is much more cost effective.

This thread has probably reached the point of we agree to disagree. But the counter argument of buying dances improves your chances to date a dancer hasn't convinced me.

And I do tip on stages, and I do buy TONS of VIP's. I'm just arguing that if the intent is to pick up a dancer, this spending approach is 100% the wrong thing to do.

Electrum
07-05-2009, 03:10 PM
I know this conversation has completely derailed and I haven't even read ALL of the posts, but I just wanted to express a thought. Why is it that all of these men think that being a customer = being a PL? Maybe I'm just a nice person but I don't think customers are automatically losers.

With that being said, it's no wonder that I'm so confused by a lot of the comments in this thread. Specifically this string of logic: If you spend money on a dancer you become a customer in her eyes and that equals a PL. And this is supposedly the logic behind picking up a dancer by not buying dances or whatever.

I seriously don't get it. I'm way more inclined to equate someone wasting my time and being a cheap ass to being a loser. I would never consider dating someone who tried to pull this type of thing on me. It's ridiculous!

And just because someone bought dances from me I wouldn't think they're a loser. That also doesn't make any sense to me. Why would only losers want to buy a dance from me? That's almost insulting to think of it that way lol.

So for whatever it's worth, I don't believe customers = losers. I don't believe buying dances = losers. However, I do think being a cheap ass and time waster = loser. Maybe I'm a money grubber, but the way I see it is if a guy is willing to spend money on me in the club and I'm interested in him as a potential boyfriend, then more then likely he'd spend money on me as his girlfriend to. To me that = WIN.

Sorry if any of that had already been said. I didn't have the patients to read the whole thread lol.

Elvia
07-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Because I'm bored.

And because "many" is not all. And because spending further reinforces the "customer" perception.

I'm not arguing the fact that the dancers responding here have no interest in dating a customer. I'm sure they don't and won't. I'm not sure that as one mentioned, they all think of us as a "mark", whether we are spending or not.

There are all kinds of dancers, some have just broken up, are on a rebound, are lonely,some are just be looking for a fling, or may be just attracted to a guy. Just because they are at work doesn't mean they can't hook up with a guy. Heck, look at how many relationships get started at work.

For those dancers that are open to the idea of meeting a guy at work, or are just in a receptive mood, I don't think spending money on them will help your chances with them at that point in time. I don't think buying dances in the club will help if the intent is to get a date. Sure, buy them a drink, be nice, supportive, etc. But moving further into the customer/dancer roles will kill your chances to move beyond that into dating.

Again, I'm sure that the dancers responding to this thread are 100% correct. That this won't work FOR THEM, and it is 100% the wrong approach to take FOR THEM. I'm not arguing that point.

What I am arguing is that not all dancers are alike, some will be receptive to meeting guys at work, and for those that are receptive, not buying dances is the best approach, or at least does not lessen one's chances, and it is much more cost effective.



Actually, from what I've gathered from the dancers on this board, and who I've met in real life who met their SO (or at least someone they dated for awhile) in the club, the guy did spend SOMETHING on them. Either he got a VIP, or bought a dance, or tipped at the stage. I really can't see how you could think that not spending anything on the dancers is the "best approach." What I'm getting from those that have dated people they met in the strip club is still the same- that the guys who don't spend money get branded a douchebag- which indeed does lessen their chances.

This may sound ridiculous, but the best advice I could give to someone who wanted to date a dancer is "What would James Bond do?" How would James Bond act in a strip club? Would he come in, sit in the corner looking broody and pouty and refusing to tip anyone? No. No he would not.

vmurphy252
07-05-2009, 03:24 PM
^WWJD?

gameover
07-05-2009, 03:34 PM
This may sound ridiculous, but the best advice I could give to someone who wanted to date a dancer is "What would James Bond do?" How would James Bond act in a strip club? Would he come in, sit in the corner looking broody and pouty and refusing to tip anyone? No. No he would not.

If I was James Bond, I wouldn't bother with strip clubs :)

chris91
07-05-2009, 04:00 PM
I have explained this before. I go to a club and the bar is around the stage; I have to sit at the bar. There could be as many as 20 dancers and 5 customers. A set lasts 20 minutes and I can't tip most dancers more than a dollar a set, $60 an hour. Some of these women come by ever three minutes and hold out their bra strap. I tell them I gave you a dollar for this set, do they smile and say OK. No they get bitchy. Now the dancers that show a little nipple will get another tip.


I'm confused. A set lasts 20 minutes? That's a damn long stage show. At first I thought this was a typo and you meant 2 minutes, but then your math is wrong, and at a dollar a set it works out to $30 an hour. At $20 minutes a set, it works out to $3 an hour. am I missing something?

babybambi08
07-05-2009, 04:05 PM
I am posting this here so I can get input from guys and girls alike. These two scenarios gave me a serious 'WTF just happened?' vibe so maybe someone can help me out.

Situation A: Yesterday, I sat with a very nice gentleman and his friend. The man bought me a drink, told me how pretty I was, how much he liked me etc. I proceeded to ask him for a dance, and he said no, he doesn't do dances. I sat and chatted for approximately ten more minutes, then told him I had to go do some dances, but would be around. He looked upset, so I mentioned very tactfully that we also accept and appreciate tips for our time, if he would like me to stay. He then hands me $10 and says "You've ruined our relationship. Here's ten dollars, and don't come back." WTF HAPPENED? In my eyes, he didn't want me to leave, he didn't want dances, so I provided him with an alternative.

Situation B: This has happened to me a milion god damn times. Guy seems super cool, we get along great, he asks what I like to do other than work. I list some of my hobbies. He then proceeds to ask me what I plan to do after dancing. Trusting my rapport with the customer, I am honest about it. He then tells me like likes me as a person and thinks I am cool, but can't get a dance because "Now I respect you too much and it would be weird", but generally tips me for the time. WTF? Respects me too much to get a dance? What the shit is that? This happens to me like once a week.

Shed any light, anyone? This really annoys me.

You did all you could with the first guy but he was just a timewaster. May have wanted your time, but didnt want to pay for it. A lot of guys are LOSERSSSS or Players. They think that its a regular bar that your here to pick up guys or they just want to see if you willl stay for free, and play you like a fool.


and 2nd guy you both talked to much. about personal stuff.. you should have not let him know too much about you. I had a REALLY hard time with this in the beginning. It hard to tell when too much is too much. I would say talk about sports, or a current even in the news for about one some. maybe talk about his work, complement him, try to relate to him even if you dont care what he is saying pretend you are glued to him. After two song, or 5-6 mins ask or tell him he needs to get a dance. if he says no or maybe later.. try later.. After one or two more songs if he still says no walk away. If he says later, try later.. like in 15 mins??

good luck!

commanderadama
07-05-2009, 05:09 PM
Well with the help of this board, I had a great time in Pittsburgh last night my first time in an American strip club in quite sometime.

So I want to thank everyone, especially the ladies, for providing this site with great content. ;D

In regards to the OP, I now think there is no B&W answers, as in life it's all gray.

verfolgung
07-05-2009, 08:11 PM
... Why is it that all of these men think that being a customer = being a PL? ...

From what I've read, it's really only one person who believes all customers to be PLs. ;)

verfolgung
07-05-2009, 08:31 PM
... What I am arguing is that not all dancers are alike, some will be receptive to meeting guys at work, and for those that are receptive, not buying dances is the best approach, or at least does not lessen one's chances, and it is much more cost effective. ...

I absolutely agree that not all dancers are alike.

The interesting thing is that in this thread and others, the responses are highly weighted in a certain direction. There are many dancers who will not consider dating anyone they meet at work, while some might date other club staff, but not customers.

Then there are those who would consider dating customers. Of this key group the overwhelming majority posted that spending money and buying dances was not a deal breaker. (Read back to my post #50 for several examples.) In fact many advocated that it was an important part of being able to spend time with the prospective customer, and was a way in which the guy was able to demonstrate he was not a handsy creep (in some cases actions speak louder than words).

I'm not saying your are completely wrong as many of us are aware that there are several sources which back up your stance. So let's assume you are correct in that a dancer's interest of a guy in the club can be peaked by not spending money on her, and that her perception of him is hurt by having money spent on her. Assuming we are talking about just your avergage joe, and not a "Brad Pitt/James Bond" type, how could one really effectively execute this approach? He would have to count on her having a lot of time to kill in order to develop an that interest. He probably should not show up on a Friday night as either the club better be slow she's not a very motivated earner. Just doesn't seem very practical, at least without an additional key element.

Even with a lack of actual examples, you are right in that some dancers may respond to the approach your advocate; however, there appears to be a lot of evidence in form of first hand accounts which support the counter argument that this may not be the best approach.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-15-2009, 10:10 PM
I'm confused. A set lasts 20 minutes? That's a damn long stage show. At first I thought this was a typo and you meant 2 minutes, but then your math is wrong, and at a dollar a set it works out to $30 an hour. At $20 minutes a set, it works out to $3 an hour. am I missing something?
In New Jersey there are no shows as such. There are usually 3 groups of dancers and they switch stage dancing every 20 minutes. It has gotten so bad in some clubs that the women don't even go on stage they just walk around hustling drinks and tips.

Otoki
07-16-2009, 06:26 AM
This thread has provided many lolz.

Points of interest:
I don't see ANY spending customer as a PL unless he crosses a line (insists on taking me out, tries to touch, is rude, etc)

If you go into a club looking to date a dancer, by not spending money on her (to show that you respect the fact that she is working) you are being incredibly rude.

I think there were a bunch of guys in last night who'd read that stupid PUA book. Blegh.

femmefatale88
07-17-2009, 12:29 AM
I am posting this here so I can get input from guys and girls alike. These two scenarios gave me a serious 'WTF just happened?' vibe so maybe someone can help me out.

Situation A: Yesterday, I sat with a very nice gentleman and his friend. The man bought me a drink, told me how pretty I was, how much he liked me etc. I proceeded to ask him for a dance, and he said no, he doesn't do dances. I sat and chatted for approximately ten more minutes, then told him I had to go do some dances, but would be around. He looked upset, so I mentioned very tactfully that we also accept and appreciate tips for our time, if he would like me to stay. He then hands me $10 and says "You've ruined our relationship. Here's ten dollars, and don't come back." WTF HAPPENED? In my eyes, he didn't want me to leave, he didn't want dances, so I provided him with an alternative.

Situation B: This has happened to me a milion god damn times. Guy seems super cool, we get along great, he asks what I like to do other than work. I list some of my hobbies. He then proceeds to ask me what I plan to do after dancing. Trusting my rapport with the customer, I am honest about it. He then tells me like likes me as a person and thinks I am cool, but can't get a dance because "Now I respect you too much and it would be weird", but generally tips me for the time. WTF? Respects me too much to get a dance? What the shit is that? This happens to me like once a week.

Shed any light, anyone? This really annoys me.

For situation B, don't give off too much info, be mysterious and be sexy and they'll buy dances! Oh ya and don't be too honest, flirt flirt flirt!

Andy08
07-17-2009, 01:51 AM
Can those idiots really be serious about that how-to-date-a-stripper crap???

First of all, if you are inside a strip club, YOU ARE A CUSTOMER. And thus, fair game. If you act uninterested in me, refuse to tip or buy dances, "See ya, douchebag!"

Secondly, I'd jump off a bridge before I'd date a customer. In fact, if I was dating a man I'd met outside of work and found out that he frequented strip clubs...that would pretty much be a deal breaker. I'd say at least 90% of men in strip clubs are disgusting, selfish, little boys who have little (if any) respect for women. If they did, they wouldn't be there...

Otoki
07-17-2009, 02:06 PM
Can those idiots really be serious about that how-to-date-a-stripper crap???

First of all, if you are inside a strip club, YOU ARE A CUSTOMER. And thus, fair game. If you act uninterested in me, refuse to tip or buy dances, "See ya, douchebag!"

Secondly, I'd jump off a bridge before I'd date a customer. In fact, if I was dating a man I'd met outside of work and found out that he frequented strip clubs...that would pretty much be a deal breaker. I'd say at least 90% of men in strip clubs are disgusting, selfish, little boys who have little (if any) respect for women. If they did, they wouldn't be there...
I wish there was a "no thank you" button. I'm sorry that you have had negative experiences, but I think it's ignorant and sad to label "90% of men" as "disgusting, selfish little boys". Seriously. I've met my share of creeps, but there are plenty of awesome men and women who frequent SCs, even as regs. I find your outlook unfortunate and insulting as someone who, if I had the money, would be a SC regular. With my bf. Who, you know, isn't disgusting or selfish.

JayATee
07-17-2009, 03:18 PM
I'd say at least 90% of men in strip clubs are disgusting, selfish, little boys who have little (if any) respect for women. If they did, they wouldn't be there...

Do you honestly believe this? Not that Im being judgemental, I just think your job must be very very difficult if this is how you feel.

Also why do you think it's disrespectful to women for men to be in a SC? Again, not judging, just curious.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 04:03 PM
I wish there was a "no thank you" button. I'm sorry that you have had negative experiences, but I think it's ignorant and sad to label "90% of men" as "disgusting, selfish little boys".

Do you honestly believe this? Not that Im being judgemental, I just think your job must be very very difficult if this is how you feel.
This is the best SS that ever was; I believe it; I really really do. :banghead:

JayATee
07-17-2009, 04:43 PM
^ Yay! A new name to ignore!!! I love how long my list is getting!! ;D

Cyril
07-17-2009, 06:37 PM
89% are that way but 90%? No way! :)

Almost Jaded
07-18-2009, 06:04 PM
Can those idiots really be serious about that how-to-date-a-stripper crap???

First of all, if you are inside a strip club, YOU ARE A CUSTOMER. And thus, fair game. If you act uninterested in me, refuse to tip or buy dances, "See ya, douchebag!"

Secondly, I'd jump off a bridge before I'd date a customer. In fact, if I was dating a man I'd met outside of work and found out that he frequented strip clubs...that would pretty much be a deal breaker. I'd say at least 90% of men in strip clubs are disgusting, selfish, little boys who have little (if any) respect for women. If they did, they wouldn't be there...

Wow. Just - wow. :shakes head:

commanderadama
07-18-2009, 08:02 PM
Can those idiots really be serious about that how-to-date-a-stripper crap???

First of all, if you are inside a strip club, YOU ARE A CUSTOMER. And thus, fair game. If you act uninterested in me, refuse to tip or buy dances, "See ya, douchebag!"

Secondly, I'd jump off a bridge before I'd date a customer. In fact, if I was dating a man I'd met outside of work and found out that he frequented strip clubs...that would pretty much be a deal breaker. I'd say at least 90% of men in strip clubs are disgusting, selfish, little boys who have little (if any) respect for women. If they did, they wouldn't be there...

LOL, tell us how you really feel Andy.

babybambi08
07-19-2009, 09:55 PM
I met my Bf in the club but It wasnt like I wanna date right away, one night he came in and got 200 dollars worth of dances from me and TIPED me!! He came in a few times, talked alot, I was going to go to his work to do some private dances.. we ended up talking and I was like I really dont feel like getting naked, Ive never dance anywhere than the club.. we talked and he still gave me some money and we just kinda started dating..

But I do get some fags, this guy I sat down with to talk to his friend and his wife, he was the brother in law and I was like so how do you know them, he said he just got laid off, but was about to start working again money and (picture this a man about 45 years old, about 300 lbs- cant even bend over his belly to get close enough to hear me) He says so are you single, and I say well I just broke up with a guy but I have a boy toy (which at the time it was true) and he says well we should go out.. SERIOUSLY, after two sentences you ask me out??
I said oh well I have to get to know you, he was like well how do you do that with out going out, I say well I might have to know more about you, we will see how tonight goes? So We chat for about 30-45 sec, and I say ok so you ready for your dance now? and he was like Oh Im sorry I would if I could I told you I just got laid off, I need to get back on my feet. I just say ok, yall have a good night and walk off.. WHAT a fag?? Want to take me out , but cant get one dance?? please, what were you going to do take me to the shelter for dinner??