View Full Version : customers, why do you tell me I am "too smart" for this?
Earl_the_Pearl
07-16-2009, 07:06 PM
Yes you do not have to be nice to him but you also do not have to knock the poor guy's drink.
I have hard time believing principals at any strip club will tolerate this kind of behavior from a stripper. This is simply not a good business practice.
Not long ago this shit happened all of the time whether one was tipping or not. Those that profited from the business had contempt for customers. Now that there are no customers times have changed and they hide their contempt.
xdamage
07-16-2009, 07:14 PM
Yes, in the same way that every guy who walks into a car dealership is a customer as well...
Not sure why that is a problem. Seems obvious.
Cyril
07-16-2009, 07:16 PM
I do not consider the guys who walk in, hang out at a booth halfway to the back, watch the girls on stage and are the only person in the club so the dancers are being told they have to go on stage and get naked for THEM... don't tip and waste every girl's time by making it seem like they're about to get a dance and then don't even buy the girl a drink.... then throw around some bullshit lines like that... customers.
This proves you are NOT a customer and I am sick of these free-loading guys coming into clubs. I am sick of working for them for free in fear of being fired. And on top of that they are always the ones giving me these types of lines.
I consider them rude, disrespectful and cheap selfish assholes who's heads I would like to take my 7 inch stripper shoes to.
Your interests and those of principals of a strip club do not completely converge. You should keep that in mind. I suggest this as a friend. Of course, you do not have to listen to me.
Cyril
07-16-2009, 07:23 PM
Not long ago this shit happened all of the time whether one was tipping or not. Those that profited from the business had contempt for customers. Now that there are no customers times have changed and they hide their contempt.
It absolutely does not make any sense to me. I treat my clients (potential or actual) as if they were gods.
I do not try to trip them over as they are walking out just because the business deal did not go well.
xdamage
07-16-2009, 07:27 PM
It absolutely does not make any sense to me. I treat my clients (potential or actual) as if they were gods.
Yea, and you sound like me in the past. The one thing I kept purposely over-looking is you aren't selling you. You are, but it is not the same. There is a side of you well tucked away and safe. A service or a product, a point of neutrality. Strippers are selling something far more intimate. They need to maintain walls of protection for their own self, but until we have done it, whose to say how we'd really behave in their shoes?
Earl_the_Pearl
07-16-2009, 07:29 PM
but until we have done it, whose to say how we'd really behave in their shoes?
I would have difficulty walking and sore feet at the end of the day. :-*
cyberstripper
07-16-2009, 07:30 PM
In both camming and dancing I have always given my clients the idea that I do have other options, I always say dancing is just a fun way for me to get out of the house and flirt! It keeps it light, and guys like this WANT to ruffle your feathers. Don't let this type see you sweat, and if he keeps on being an ass just walk away, not worth your while or time or most importantly, try not to take things personally from guys like this.
cyberstripper
07-16-2009, 07:36 PM
A telltale sign that it's Customer Shit (passive aggressive): If what the customer says or does annoys the dancer, then it's probably Customer Shit (CS). http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2008/shit1.gif
YEP!!! SO why bother with comebacks even! He wants to get you all angry and get a response from you. When you responding in a positive way, not negative you are showing him his backhanded compliment didn't bother you at all, and you won't lower yourself to his levels!
charlie61
07-16-2009, 07:43 PM
Ahhh...a civil CC thread. *tear* Warms mah hart.
Keep it up! :)
audrey_k
07-17-2009, 05:28 AM
1) Were you a club owner—or even a customer—you would probably have some idea that the men who frequent one club 4 times a month generally do not come into that club and not spend any money on the dancers. If he is too cheap to drop $1 on stage, he is most likely also too cheap to pay a $30 cover charge four times a month (totaling $120) to enter the club. (this particular customer even printed out a free online coupon for admission).
2) I am not sure how me knocking over a drink became me costing my club $140,000. Using the word “Gendaken” does not hide your lack of knowledge in terms of not only the strip-club business but business in general. You are vastly overestimating the profit this customer, and other customers like him, will bring to the club, and assuming that too many factors will be consistent.
3) “MY dancers”? We are not your or anyone else’s dancers (your statements sound more like they are coming from a wannabe-pimp than a wannabe-club-owner.)
We are independent contractors paying not only a rental (house) fee but giving a percentage of our profit to the club—and expected to tip out the CLUB’S employees (support staff). Because of this I strongly feel that the club’s customers are not MY customers. If a patron wants to spend $ on me, I will put up with his bullshit to an extent. If he doesn't but is speaking to me and treating me with respect, I will politely move on and ignore him. But if he is going to be an ass I am going to be one back to him. He is not my customer and he is treating me with disrespect by being condescending and rude verbally and by obviously just going into the club to see a free show. I will not put up with disrespect from people who are NOT my customers or anyone else's (if he was buying dances from other girls I would not have been as rude to him).
Aren’t you the same person who was stating in a previous thread, “a good strip club means the dancers are happy?” Well, here’s straight from a dancers mouth what makes me very UNhappy: going to work for nine hours and coming home with NOTHING, even after getting completely naked on stage seven to eight times for free, because the guy sits halfway to the back and watches me but doesn't tip. He just makes some annoying remark while wasting my time afterwards. This guy falls into the same category as the guys who try to stick their fingers up my ass during a 2-4-1 or try to grop me on the floor as they tell me "I want a dance, next 2-4-1." California customers-- for the most part, of course there are exceptions-- are rude and disrespectful and that is why there are so many posts on this board from girls saying "California is the worst state to dance in." If customers are not treating dancers with respect, $ wise, verbally, or physically they do not deserve it back. So do not refer to him as the "poor guy" because not only is it ignorant but it is OFFENSIVE.
And so, should you ever open up a strip club, please do inform me so that I will NEVER dance there (and give my dancer friends a heads up as well!).
Cyril
07-17-2009, 06:00 AM
Audrey,
I want the strippers to be happy and I have a noble intention behind it. Please read my post again for it explains the reason why your action can cost your club $14K/month.
I loathe the idea of pimp and any man who exploits women. This should put the case to rest. The usage of word ‘my’ is very common. Example: My team, my employee, my teacher, my strippers (a boss can use this term), etc.
I realize that there are several factors that make you unhappy but knocking your customer’s drinks will not make your unhappiness disappear.
It seems like your primary concern is that people are watching you from a distance and not tipping you. Well, it will be less counter productive for you to talk to the manager and ask him to dim the light so that people from distance cannot see you; in that case, they will have to come close and tip you. What do you think?
I think the solution I proposed is much more attractive than knocking down your customer’s drink.
audrey_k
07-17-2009, 06:05 AM
I think you did not comprehend my post at all.
Cyril
07-17-2009, 06:05 AM
By the way, what is 2-4-1?
vmurphy252
07-17-2009, 06:10 AM
Two dances for the price of one.
Cyril
07-17-2009, 06:15 AM
I think you did not comprehend my post at all.
I am five minutes late on hitting the shower. So, I had to cut my response in half. I will provide an answer for your independent contractor excuse when I am back online again.
But in short, independent contractors (strippers) have the same customer service obligation as the primary contractor (the club owner) - you do not have to be nice to the PL but you also do not have to knock down his drinks.
I feel your pain and I cannot imagine what kind of person cannot afford one dollar for a naked woman but still it does not justify you knocking down that PL's drink.
My primary concern was your job safety but if you feel your action was a right action then please continue. I support you.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 06:35 AM
This is a nude California club. He's drinking a $10 Diet Coke.
We have a few nude clubs in New Jersey some that customers can BYOB. I don't go to them even though it would save me $100 on drinks. I find the dancers are not as comfortable as they are in Go-Go bikini bars.
xdamage
07-17-2009, 09:45 AM
It seems like your primary concern is that people are watching you from a distance and not tipping you. Well, it will be less counter productive for you to talk to the manager and ask him to dim the light so that people from distance cannot see you; in that case, they will have to come close and tip you. What do you think?
I think the solution I proposed is much more attractive than knocking down your customer’s drink.
Your solution cannot work. Have you been to a SC?
See the dancers dance on a stage under lights so they can be seen by ALL the patrons. First there are the guys who sits in the dark, a table away from the stage and watch so that they are not tipping.
Turn off what light? The stage light so nobody can see? Or so those who are paying can't? But anyway it wouldn't matter because our eyes see quite well in even dim lighting so long as it's looking from the a dark area to a lighter one. Cause turning off the light in the already dark part of the club would do nothing except maybe allow those sitting in the back to see even better.
The second situation is guys sitting at the stage who are not paying but watching. Again if your going to turn down the lights so nobody can see then how does that work?
But part of the problem here is that the bar owners and dancers are not always striving for the same goals. The bar owner may be quite happy the customer is in the club and drinking. doors fees have been paid. Overpriced drinks bought. He has already collected the dancers house fees. Good luck convincing him or her to discourage customers from coming in and buying drinks. So it is complicated . Trust that many people have tried to imagine easy answers but there many variations of how clubs operate. Any seemingly easy answer (e.g., start a union, turn down the lights) is surely easy because some important details havent been considered. Like others have thought of these ideas (though the dim lights one is new, unworkable, but new ;)).
xdamage
07-17-2009, 09:58 AM
I feel your pain and I cannot imagine what kind of person cannot afford one dollar for a naked woman but still it does not justify you knocking down that PL's drink.
That is not really the dynamic. It is not someone who doesn't have 1$. Again, have you been to a club? The dynamic is more like some guy who comes to a SC, probably a lot, but can't really afford it or he can afford it but realizes he can mooch, enjoy the strippers but not pay. So maybe he finds a way to avoid paying cover (call that $20); nurses one drink (call that $10); sits at the stage or not, avoiding tipping a reasonable $1-$2 per stage dance (say each song was 3-4 mins, so $15-20 an hour he doesnt spend on tips); he probably also doesnt tip waitresses (a few more saved). A cheap way to look at strippers, possibly multiple times a week, without paying for much more then a few heavily nursed cheap beers.
From the dancers POV it utterly sucks. Kind of like some guy coming into Best Buy several times a week to watch the game on the big screen with absolutely no intention of every buying the TV, wasting peoples times, etc. It is an abuse of the intent which is sure some shopping is fine, but don't abuse the system and mooch.
But again, could be the club owner is fine with it because he is at least sellling over priced drinks and because the dancers have also paid him to be there, he makes more by allowing these guys (at least in the short run, don't know - they may destroy morale in the long run making it a big loss).
SteveSmith
07-17-2009, 10:41 AM
YEP!!! SO why bother with comebacks even! He wants to get you all angry and get a response from you. When you responding in a positive way, not negative you are showing him his backhanded compliment didn't bother you at all, and you won't lower yourself to his levels!
I never said anything about getting angry or showing the customer that you're upset about what he said. A comeback line could be a witty retort, a reverse backhanded insult, or some other disarming statement. :chat:
Sometimes, the dancer has to be a part time Ninja :ninja: while giving lap dances to fend off grabby assholes, and she also has to be a part time verbal Ninja :argue: when she's out on the floor.
If the guy is a total shitbag, then she could just walk away and ignore him. Each situation is different, but it's good to have many witty retorts, reverse backhanded insults, or disarming statements in her Ninja bag ready to be used to disarm the passive aggressive. :grumpy:
SerenaSin
07-17-2009, 10:46 AM
From the dancers POV it utterly sucks. Kind of like some guy coming into Best Buy several times a week to watch the game on the big screen with absolutely no intention of every buying the TV, wasting peoples times, etc. It is an abuse of the intent which is sure some shopping is fine, but don't abuse the system and mooch.
I think this is a really good metaphor for the situation.
Even if the guy bought something from the store- like one of those candy bars from impulse aisle near the checkout counter- several times a week and then sat in front of the big-screen eating his candy and watching the game, it would still be shitty. I mean sure the store makes a little money off him but it's still mooching and does not create the kind of environment in the store where people feel like spending. Believe me, many guys in the SC want to see others spending to want to spend themselves (kind of a weird cycle, but we all know it's true).
Sorry to continue the derailing, back on topic- it's amazing how much these customers underestimate us. I used like, 1 SAT word in a conversation, and talked a little about similarities and differences between California and Florida (where we're from), and the guy was so taken aback at how "smart" I was to the point where it started to make me uncomfortable and a little offended
Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 11:42 AM
But again, could be the club owner is fine with it because he is at least sellling over priced drinks and because the dancers have also paid him to be there, he makes more by allowing these guys (at least in the short run, don't know - they may destroy morale in the long run making it a big loss).
I read that the loss could be $14,000.00/month. Now dancers do not own the club they dance at the pleasure of the owner or more likely the manager.
There are no customers in the clubs so even a PL that just takes up a seat for the cover and drink minimum is better than an empty seat in the long run. Dancers barely tolerate PLs when they empty their wallet so it takes very little for that tolerance to fade. If management permits dancers to empty seats it better be for a good reason.
About 10 years ago I was in one of the better gentleman's clubs, one very close to my house, and a dancer insisted on strong arming me for a tip. She was a woman that obviously hated men so I dug in my heels and refused to tip her. This was when times were good and customers were commonly disrespected. I was asked to leave. I left, oh did I leave, and I have not been back and NEVER will go back.
How much money has Smiles II lost over the last 10 years because of this? Cyril said $1,680,000; not all mine but perhaps mine and others that I tell not to go to Smiles II as they don't respect customers.
yoda57us
07-17-2009, 11:46 AM
As long as the guy is in the strip club, he is a customer (potential). He may not buy dances from Miss X but he may buy dances from Miss Y just before he leaves. It is possible.
Um yes, that makes him a customer....so you agree with me...
Anyhow, let us do some Gedanken stuff here. The PL in question came to the strip club, he paid $30.00 as an entry fee and bought few drinks worth $5.00. So he spent $35.00 in the club. If he frequents the club four times a month then he ends up spending $140.00/month. Let us assume that there are 100 PLs with exact same expenditure signatures who frequent this club in question. If dancers got rid of 100 PLs with the mentioned expenditure signatures then the club lost a monthly income of $140,00.00. That is a serious some of money.
So the conclusion is obvious, at least for me that I will not tolerate this kind of behavior from my dancers if I were in charge.
Um yeah, math games are fun. Lets say a smart PL comes in during the afternoon before there is a cover and does a champagne room four times a month for which the club gets $100 and the dancer gets $300. The club makes $400 a month of this guy...if he brings 99 friends who do the same the club makes 40 grand a month simply for unlocking the door and letting these guys in. The beauty part? He's still gonna buy drinks too! PLUS. In my version the guy is actually spending $1200 a month on dancers rather than paying a cover, buying a drink and watching the hot naked chicks from the bar while they all refer to him as a cheap prick back in the dressing room and decide who is going to tip over his drink...
Strip clubs are a unique situation as far as a business model goes. Dancers need a venue to ply their trade and SC owners need dancers in order to attract customers. While your PL's cover charge and single drink is certainly revenue for the club owner it doesn't put a dime in the dancer's pocket. The guys who spend money on dancers also spend a lot more money on liquor, vip fees, tips for servers, hostesses etc...everyone is happy. In an industry where everyone involved but the club owner derives most of their income from tips it is much more important to have guys participating in the game rather than watching from the bar while nursing a beer...
Any SC owner with half a brain (and trust me that's about all most of them have) knows that dancers drive the money train, not the guy buying one drink and watching the show from the bar...
Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 11:53 AM
Sorry to continue the derailing, back on topic- it's amazing how much these customers underestimate us. I used like, 1 SAT word in a conversation, and talked a little about similarities and differences between California and Florida (where we're from), and the guy was so taken aback at how "smart" I was to the point where it started to make me uncomfortable and a little offended
I have said this before and will say it again. The dancers that post on Stripper Web are not your average dancer. Read your own “heard in the dressing room” thread and you will understand. I am not insulted when a dancer is shocked that I know her home country is in Europe.
JayATee
07-17-2009, 11:57 AM
No I was not kidding. Why do you have to knock that poor guy's drink?
You can call me whatever you want to call but the reality is any manager who gladly kicks out $14,000.00/month is going to regret it. Because that $14,000.00 can be used to pay utility bills for that club.
And if any manager entertains that line of thinking then the loss is not going to stop at $14,000.00/month. It will go higher and higher, and in this economy, I doubt any manager will take that kind of risk.
However, if you ladies want to knock down the drinks of your PLs, please go ahead, don't let me stop you. But I still think it is a bad idea and is unprofessional in spirit.
The "poor guy" you're referring to WAS NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY. Therefore when he left THE CLUB LOST NOTHING.
Would you work for free? Because that's what this guy was forcing us to do. This guy is in our place of work, making us work for free because he's not spending. His leaving, leaves a space open for someone WHO KNOWS HOW A SC WORKS AND WILL SPEND MONEY ON US. We don't walk around naked for free. You PAY to play. IF YOU'RE NOT SPENDING $$$ GTFO!
Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 11:57 AM
Any SC owner with half a brain (and trust me that's about all most of them have) knows that dancers drive the money train, not the guy buying one drink and watching the show from the bar...
The money train is off the track that is why this happened. In good times a PL hiding in the back would not be noticed by a dancer.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-17-2009, 12:02 PM
Another question that PROVES you know nothing about the SCing business.
I know about clubs and we don't have two for ones. In Newark private dances are illegal as they are bad.
JayATee
07-17-2009, 12:04 PM
^So? You still know what it is.
xdamage
07-17-2009, 02:37 PM
... Now dancers do not own the club they dance at the pleasure of the owner or more likely the manager. ...
They don't own the club, but it is a mutually beneficial business relationship...
Without the dancers the club would just be a bar serving over priced drinks. No customers would come because there would be no point. At best they'd go to another bar and pay the more reasonable price for drinks. They'd surely pay no cover to enter a normal bar, to stare into the air.
The other part is the dancers are renting use of the facility when they play a club fee, and in some cases the club owner is additionally making profits from the dances they sell (via some splitting of the VIP costs, or LD costs, maybe even splitting of tips).
Especially in the case where they've paid a rental fee (the house fee) to use the club's facilities for the evening, they have a stronger than employee-type arrangement in who they are doing business with in the club.
The key thing is that dancers reasonably feel that their near naked, or naked presence is entertainment. It is why the customers are in the facility. And it is why. Because they aren't there to drink over priced drinks. The point is they are enjoying the entertainment, while the dancers had to pay a rental fee for the use of the facility, while these customers are not paying them. And exactly why would they want to work? entertain others? pay to be there themselves, and do so receiving no compensation? Worse, maybe even spending more to work then what they make? It's not too hard to see why that would be infuriating.
Otoki
07-17-2009, 03:01 PM
People, stop feeding the trolls and we can stop having the same arguments over and over and over and over. Put them on ignore and your life will be better.
yoda57us
07-17-2009, 04:10 PM
People, stop feeding the trolls and we can stop having the same arguments over and over and over and over. Put them on ignore and your life will be better.
Interesting thought but fortunately I don't count on a web forum to make my life better or worse. I come here for entertainment and, as scary as this may sound, this foolishness is entertaining...
Cyril
07-17-2009, 06:06 PM
Interesting thought but fortunately I don't count on a web forum to make my life better or worse. I come here for entertainment and, as scary as this may sound, this foolishness is entertaining...
You are what Buddha would have called a balanced man. :)
charlie61
07-17-2009, 06:13 PM
Seriously people? Again?
IF YOU'RE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH ANOTHER MEMBER, EITHER IGNORE HIM/HER OR REPORT HIM/HER TO SOMEONE WHO CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING!
Can't we be adults about all of this?
Cyril
07-17-2009, 06:18 PM
Seriously people? Again?
IF YOU'RE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH ANOTHER MEMBER, EITHER IGNORE HIM/HER OR REPORT HIM/HER TO SOMEONE WHO CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING!
Can't we be adults about all of this?
I agree.
charlie61
07-17-2009, 07:01 PM
^ It's good that you agree, but you also need to recognize your part in the verbal sparring. We all do. Most of us are intelligent enough to know when we're jabbing other members, baiting them, etc.
audrey_k
07-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Audrey,
I want the strippers to be happy and I have a noble intention behind it. Please read my post again for it explains the reason why your action can cost your club $14K/month.
I loathe the idea of pimp and any man who exploits women. This should put the case to rest. The usage of word ‘my’ is very common. Example: My team, my employee, my teacher, my strippers (a boss can use this term), etc.
I realize that there are several factors that make you unhappy but knocking your customer’s drinks will not make your unhappiness disappear.
It seems like your primary concern is that people are watching you from a distance and not tipping you. Well, it will be less counter productive for you to talk to the manager and ask him to dim the light so that people from distance cannot see you; in that case, they will have to come close and tip you. What do you think?
I think the solution I proposed is much more attractive than knocking down your customer’s drink.
I am five minutes late on hitting the shower. So, I had to cut my response in half. I will provide an answer for your independent contractor excuse when I am back online again.
But in short, independent contractors (strippers) have the same customer service obligation as the primary contractor (the club owner) - you do not have to be nice to the PL but you also do not have to knock down his drinks.
I feel your pain and I cannot imagine what kind of person cannot afford one dollar for a naked woman but still it does not justify you knocking down that PL's drink.
My primary concern was your job safety but if you feel your action was a right action then please continue. I support you.
I read your post. I have enough of an understanding of basic math to see how you are getting to 14K as month, thanks.
My point is that this is a vastly overestimated figure. Read my post—and actually READ it, don’t just skim over it and write me a response that doesn’t show any comprehension or thought—to see why.
I am not talking in terms of just the sentence “my stripper.” That was just the easiest statement to bring your attitude to light. Being an independent contractor is not an “excuse” (seriously you are so damn ignorant it’s unbelievable). This is a LEGAL TERM TO DESCRIBE THE NATURE OF A DANCER’S EMPLOYMENT.
I do not have the same obligation to the club as an employee in a retail store does. When I worked as sales associate I put up with an BS a customer came at me with. Why? Because I was being paid by the store to do so. I am not being paid by the club to speak to customers—I am paying THEM. You obviously think that if you were a club owner the strippers would be your “employees.” Unless you are paying them a salary they NOT your employees and as such do not have any obligation to follow your instructions on how to do their job. As a customer said to me last night when asking me if I liked working at the club, “well you’re not an employee you’re an independent contractor since the club isn’t paying you, so you can make your own rules… if you don’t like a customer you can just walk away.” (this customer was a corporate lawyer).
I will also point out that the costs clubs throw at their dances are completely unfair and do not exist in any other industry. To charge someone a rental fee and take a percentage of their profit is ridiculous. Hair stylists who work independently in salons pay a rental fee, not a percentage of their earnings per haircut/color job. Because of the insane amount of fees clubs charge their dances—and the product that they are selling, which is, THEIR BODY-- I feel they are even MORE entitled to their freedom.
Pimps are men who exploit women by controlling them and taking money that they earn for themselves. You are implying that a club owner should tell his dances how they will act while he is taking money from them.
I am going to not even bother explaining to you how impossible dimming the lights so that customers could not see me from far away is and skip to: my concern is not people from a distance seeing me naked and not tipping. My concern is working for FREE. If there are several customers and a few are tipping but a few are just sitting and watching, I would take that an opportunity to MAKE them my customers by doing an awesome stage dance. I am not working for free because there are other customers tipping me. However, as I mentioned this was the ONLY customer in the club and so I was being forced to dance solely for him. This infuriates me. This customer knows that the dancers are being forced to get up on stage and perform for him—were he to leave we could all hang out in the dressing room or go for a smoke break. And still he does not tip, and on top of that gives me a smart ass remark. No, no, no. His drink was going down.
I am willing to bet me earnings for the week that that man had a dollar he could have spared for ONE girl who got up on stage for him. No one who is buying $10 diet cokes does not have one dollar they can spare. This customer simply was a cheap ass motherfucker who saw he could get a free show and took advantage. Men who do not have one dollar to spare do not belong in the strip club and need to get their asses out of the club. Strip clubs are not for the broke, they are for the rich who want to spend money. That is the purpose of going to the SC… to spend. Because your entertainers are NOT BEING PAID BY THE CLUB TO ENTERTAIN YOU.
While you say you have been to many SCs in the past, I find this hard to believe from your posts. DJs are not shy about telling men they need to tip their dancers if they are going to sit at the tip rail; my DJ tells any guy who sits there he has to tip if he does not offer up at least a dollar when the dancer is finished. When guys are sitting in the room and not tipping he will remind them to tip the dancer if they hope for her to keep performing. If these men continue to not tip, the DJ will stop putting girls up on stage. My manager sees all of this and has no problem.
Oh, and by the way… it made me feel a HELL OF A LOT BETTER to knock his drink down. I was dancing all night, no pun intended.
charlie61
07-18-2009, 10:34 AM
^ Inflammatory, but at least still somewhat on topic. So thank you Audrey.
Please, people. Continue the thread. Without resorting to petty/annoying name-calling, bullying, baiting, etc. etc. etc.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-18-2009, 04:20 PM
They don't own the club, but it is a mutually beneficial business relationship...
The way the owners have it set up it is much more beneficial to them; if a PL doesn't buy a drink he is asked to leave. If he doesn't tip the owner doesn't care. Dancers should take that up with the owner.
What would happen to a dancer that intentional knocked over the owners drink when he fines her for some B.S. reason? Dancers get screwed by management far more then by PLs.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-18-2009, 04:32 PM
Pimps are men who exploit women by controlling them and taking money that they earn for themselves. You are implying that a club owner should tell his dances how they will act while he is taking money from them.
Owners tell dancers what days to work when to get on stage what kind of clothes they have to wear how much they have to "tip" other employees. They have rules for customers but one of them is not how much to tip dancers. I have seen many a PL asked to leave a club because he did not buy a drink but never for not tipping a dancer.
You are angry but can't do anything about the owner so you take it out on the PL.
Cyril
07-18-2009, 04:41 PM
X,
I am certain that there is a separate lighting system for the stage where dancers do their strip tease. I am talking about dimming this lighting system so that PLs that are lurking far away will have to come close to take a look. I think it will be hard for most PLs to not fork out at least a dollar per song if they are up close and personal; the guilt factor will kick in.
Cyril
07-18-2009, 05:24 PM
Audrey,
I have to agree with Earl here. PLs are not the problem here.
Your posts provided great insight into the issues that you ladies are facing. I am absolutely convinced that the majority of clubs are not managed efficiently as a result we have dissatisfied strippers and PLs.
I think we should start a separate thread to discuss the issue of mismanagement.
bem401
07-18-2009, 05:28 PM
X,
I am certain that there is a separate lighting system for the stage where dancers do their strip tease. I am talking about dimming this lighting system so that PLs that are lurking far away will have to come close to take a look. I think it will be hard for most PLs to not fork out at least a dollar per song if they are up close and personal; the guilt factor will kick in.
How can you be "certain" of anything if you haven't been to a strip club in years? The lighting varies from club to club as does the possibility of watching for free.
Cyril
07-18-2009, 05:30 PM
How can you be "certain" of anything if you haven't been to a strip club in years? The lighting varies from club to club as does the possibility of watching for free.
Fair enough. This thing is a bit complex. I think I am going to start a new thread to discuss the strip club management issue. I am just laying out my thoughts at the moment.
xdamage
07-18-2009, 05:58 PM
Bem is correct Cyril. Every SC is laid out differently. Also if the goal of the owners was to hide the stage from the those sitting away from the stage, they could do that by laying the clubs out that way, with that area zoned off. Not surprisingly, that is exactly how they DO NOT lay them out.
But when you build, fund and manage your SC, you will be free to lay yours out that way, strippers in room A on stage, others seating in room B with no visibility of the stage.
If just reading that is making you go "hmmm.. I think there are some details I am missing" you'd be right. I suggest a field trip. On site research. ;)
Earl_the_Pearl
07-18-2009, 06:01 PM
How can you be "certain" of anything if you haven't been to a strip club in years? The lighting varies from club to club as does the possibility of watching for free.
What is free? I remember a time when one paid admission to watch a stage show and there was no audience performer interaction except with the candy butcher.
It is club management that changed this not the audience or performers. Club owners have one group paying the salary of another wile over charging the customer for drinks. What does one get for the price of admission and paying double for drinks?
Dancers keep saying if you don't have big bucks don't come to the club; form what I see in the clubs they are getting what they want.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-18-2009, 06:09 PM
Bem is correct Cyril. Every SC is laid out differently. Also if the goal of the owners was to hide the stage from the those sitting away from the stage, they could do that by laying the clubs out that way, with that area zoned off. Not surprisingly, that is exactly how they DO NOT lay them out.
The owners have set it up that way not the PLs as I said the dancers are taking it out on the PLs when it is management that controls everything and I mean everything.
xdamage
07-18-2009, 06:18 PM
What is free? I remember a time when one paid admission to watch a stage show and there was no audience performer interaction except with the candy butcher.
Hey I remember my first SC as a poorer younger man. Very different then anything like what they are today of course. It was just a bar, and strippers (women who stripped on stage). We had drinks, they danced, everyone sort of understood that tipping is required. There were no LDs. No touching. There were only 6-8 dancers on rotation for the whole night making a living on those stage tips.
A lot of things changed. The business model yea. The amount of contact. The number of women who are dancing. Our expectations. Porn might be a factor (we use to think seeing half naked women was about the hottest thing we'd ever seen; these days hmmm porn might have contributed to a general social numbness), and more.
Not completely disagreeing with you EP, but there are many things that have changed since the old days of strip clubs being bars where we'd go spend an evening with buddies to watch women "strip". But in those days even us poor guys did tip the dancers on stage. At least that is how it worked where I grew up. How else could they have made money pre-LDs? But there were far fewer of them too. The tips were split a lot less ways.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Hey I remember my first SC as a poorer younger man. Very different then anything like what they are today of course. It was just a bar, and strippers (women who stripped on stage). We had drinks, they danced, everyone sort of understood that tipping is required. There were no LDs. No touching. There were only 6-8 dancers on rotation for the whole night making a living on those stage tips.
I remember that too. It was the beginning of the downhill slid from burlesque. The only hustle in burlesque was the candy butcher suggesting if you bought a box of candy and held it up to the light you would see a racy picture.
Porn has always been around and prostitution even longer. As women became more liberated in every way they became less so in striptease.
Cyril
07-18-2009, 07:18 PM
I agree with Earl 100%. The culprit is the management. That is why I started a new thread called Project: Dream Girls to discuss the management issues. I hope we can gather some meaningful information through that new thread.
bem401
07-18-2009, 07:45 PM
What is free? .
Well. if we are going to parse what we say. perhaps i should have said watch without tipping.
Earl_the_Pearl
07-18-2009, 07:51 PM
Well. if we are going to parse what we say. perhaps i should have said watch without tipping.
Exactingly why not do away with tipping and charge a big door fee? Oh silly me that would do away with the champagne hustle.