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verfolgung
07-21-2009, 09:09 PM
... I am already thinking about who the guest of honor will be on the inauguration day; I mean the PL who will be cutting the ribbon.

I am thinking of giving this honor to Earl. ...

Not sure if he will be able to keep from violating Dream Girls PL Rule #3C ...



3.b. A PL must not grope or touch a dancer. He shall not engage in any obscene activity at the premises ...

When asked "has a stripper ever kissed you during a lap dance?"

I used to kiss dancers until I went to clubs in Paterson NJ.

or when asked "Have you ever came during a lap dance?" ...

If you mean LD and not BJ, HJ or FS no. I very rarely do LD because of the hustle factor. I prefer letters for a price; it is a business you know.

.... Oh and don't forget, it's important to Earl that he not be frisked at the door, as he would like to be able to carry a weapon into Dream Girls. ;)

verfolgung
07-21-2009, 09:12 PM
This is a realistic exercise and as such racism has to be taken into account. Actually, it is not racism, it is realism. ...

Bwahahahaha ... "realism". Dude if "realism" was so important to you than you would have listened more to the feedback provided in the thread and drastically altered your fictional club.

verfolgung
07-21-2009, 09:16 PM
^^^ Gee, and I thought I was giving you feedback on your "PL of Honor". :-\

Cyril
07-21-2009, 09:19 PM
At Dream Girls all the PLs including yourself have to obey the rules.

Cyril
07-21-2009, 09:22 PM
Bwahahahaha ... "realism". Dude if "realism" was so important to you than you would have listened more to the feedback provided in the thread and drastically altered your fictional club.

Dream Girls will make money while employing happy strippers. This is realism.

verfolgung
07-21-2009, 09:27 PM
^^^ That's just it. You have yet to address several issues one of which is where your fictional club is going to be located, and how it will compete other clubs under the local ordinances.

Your club will not operate in a vacuum, and it is not a "field of dreams". If you try to open the wrong style of club in the wrong location, than you will not make money, and you won't have "happy strippers". That is realism.

Cyril
07-21-2009, 09:43 PM
^^^ That's just it. You have yet to address several issues one of which is where your fictional club is going to be located, and how it will compete other clubs under the local ordinances.

Your club will not operate in a vacuum, and it is not a "field of dreams". If you try to open the wrong style of club in the wrong location, than you will not make money, and you won't have "happy strippers". That is realism.

This will be located in Portland, OR. Happy?

This club will cater to wealthy and successful PLs. Of course those PLs are hard to pull into a strip club but that is the challenge Dream Girls is undertaking.

If you want to pitch in then here is a question for you. How does the shift rotation work in a strip club? Can you give me two or three scenarios?

verfolgung
07-21-2009, 10:14 PM
^^^ Portland, OR??? Geesh.

From what I understand that market is already well over saturated with clubs, especially given their population base and high level of unemployment.

One thing in your favor is that it is an area that tends to focus more on stage performances, and extras don't seem as prevelant as other areas. However, this also means you're going to need other factors to set you apart.

Forget about shift rotations for the moment, you're going to have issues hiring talent, espeically TOP talent.

Not only are you going to be competing for customer, but you're going to be competing for dancers. Currently your setup and interview/hiring process is not condusive to hiring or retaining the TOP talent.

- Trying to sell your club as a safe haven for dancers, will not set you apart in this market.

- TOP talent is not going to submit to a full audition, or allow you to perform a background check, if they can walk up to one of your competitors and be hired on site - the normal scenario in that market.

- TOP talent is not going to be thrilled with your revenue sharing setup. While you may be providing a min. level of earnings you are taking away from high end potential earnings of your TOP talent. Not only will this limit your applicants, but any successful dancers will quickly leave "Dream Girls" for higher earning potential at other clubs.

- TOP talent traveling through the area will not even be able to consider working for Dream Girls on an interim basis

- Your drawn out hiring process is going to make it hard for you to manage your numbers, and efficiently hire replacements when you inevitably experience turn over.

Basically, you current set up will likely only be able to hire and retain mid-level talent.


Instead of focusing on construction, interviews/hiring, grand openings, shift rotations, etc. - you should be trying to figure out real inovations. Especially new revenue streams. You can't expect to simply take the same old revenue streams, which are shrinking all over the industry, and just hope to spread them out differently to be profitable/successful.

mediocrity
07-22-2009, 04:21 AM
Oh goodness, tequila and extracurricular personal activities are prompting me to say three thngs:

One: Its bugging me you keep saying "Oriental". Racist.
Two: May I suggest Montreal as opposed to poor Portland?
And Three: Give me a goddamn break.

oh, and as an addendum:

Four: I love me some Verf.

peachplumpear
07-22-2009, 04:29 AM
I would work there! I love being on stage 100% of the time! I put a lot of thought into my outfits, theme and my music. I am trained in ballet and jazz, and I perform burlesque and belly dance, usually for free. I enjoy showing off my moves and getting a crowd excited to watch me. Unfortunately, most of the time people don't appreciate that kind of show and just want to be grinded on...

Dirty Ernie
07-22-2009, 07:55 AM
Dood, you drank the Kool-Aid :spit:

verfolgung
07-22-2009, 08:03 AM
I would work there! I love being on stage 100% of the time! I put a lot of thought into my outfits, theme and my music. I am trained in ballet and jazz, and I perform burlesque and belly dance, usually for free. I enjoy showing off my moves and getting a crowd excited to watch me. Unfortunately, most of the time people don't appreciate that kind of show and just want to be grinded on...

That's cool. I'm the type of customer who preferes the entertainment aspect of SC's and appreciates great stage show performances.

However, instead of just ruling out LDs, I think a club would be better served by having the flexibility to allow dancers to choose what they do best in order to optimize their earnings (ie: stage only, LD's only, stage & LDs, etc.)

Dirty Ernie
07-22-2009, 08:14 AM
Verf, what happened?/:O

That was one of the few well thought out, on topic posts in this whole thread. If that had been Cyril's original post, he might have had a shot at earning the stripper love he so desires.

xdamage
07-22-2009, 10:06 AM
- TOP talent is not going to be thrilled with your revenue sharing setup. While you may be providing a min. level of earnings you are taking away from high end potential earnings of your TOP talent. Not only will this limit your applicants, but any successful dancers will quickly leave "Dream Girls" for higher earning potential at other clubs.


That is the elephant in the room. Top talent thrives precisely because of a competitive environment that does not guarantee everyone will get an equal cut of the pie. The more the business model moves towards equal sharing, socialism or employee status on fixed incomes, the more top talent will be driven away replaced by unhappy, do the bare minimum, personalities.

In a different line of work it could work and maybe there is a rare exceptional person out there who loves the work itself, but ask most dancers and they are very clear. They get little personal satisfaction out of acting sexual towards customers. It is a job. Pays the bills, but good pay is the motivation.

Some of us like myself have a job that by good fortune includes some personal satisfaction not measured in dollars, but we aren't having to pretend to be hot toward people 20 years older then ourselves, often unkept, often grabby. It would be a sucky job were it not for the potential to earn large sums of money limited only by your own talent.

Now Cyril will say we are not contributing to the thread. Which is wrong. We are contributing, were just not agreeing or feeding into a fantasy land in someone's head. Hey, no wine this time so I said it nicely even ;)

Almost Jaded
07-22-2009, 03:33 PM
You know wat, I'm in a stellar mood today, so I thought I'd break down what DOES make a good club, for dancers, then for customers.

Dancers:
- Good, kind management who listens when you have an issue and doesn't ask for a BS tipout on top of their salary. Managers that I have encountered make a decent salary.
- Bouncers who do their job. Not necessarily injure people a la CH2, but definitely make their presence and the rule abundantly clear. Fair salary to ensure equal motivation, not just helping the girls who tip the best.
- Or, if there are "Hosts", they shouldn't expect a tip if they did nothing to assist our moneymaking proces. They should also be paid fairly for the same reasons as the bouncers.
- House fees which are no more than 10-15% of what your average expected total take for the night.
- Clean surroundings, where carpets etc are washed on a regular basis.
- Vigilant VIP cameras.
- I worked in a place once where the lap dance price was posted in multiple areas, and I liked it. It prevents undercutting and makes everyone on the same playing field, and the customer can choose to tip on top of the dance price should be feel so compelled.
- I also worked in a place where the comfort level was yours to select and am a fan of that. Don't want to lap dance? Don't. Want to lap dance? Go for it. I don't advocate super high contact though.
- Having every patron sitting at the tip rail tip a dollar a song. C'mon guys. I can't even buy a pack of gum with $1. It sin't anything to sweat.

For Customers (IMHO):
- Well kept girls. Brushed hair, makeup on point, clean outfits, shaven, smelling good. Quality of girls I would think is a top priority. No one wants a dance from a busted ass girl.
- Low ATM fees. I do think a lot of them are unreasonable. $2 and below would be good.
- No high pressure bottle sales.
- Drink specials.
- Clean atmosphere where they don't feel icky touching the furniture.
- Reasonable cover charge.
- DJ who doesn't talk too much or too loud.
- Feeling like the quality of the venue and the girls is worth the money they are spending.

Voila. However, this is just my perception. Your perception may vary.

I had a business plan a few years back that was pretty bad ass, but my investor bowed out. Epic fail!

I miss Scores Las Vegas. It was almost exactly what you describe here, at least for the ~2 years I went there with any regularity.

And I'd like to see that business plan if you're willing to show it. I'll sign whatever non-compete/non-disclosure you like, but understand that we are actively considering opening a club in the nexxt couple of years. If your plan contains aspects which are improvements, I'm 100% sure something could be worked out.


So much for aquafraternity

Dude - I SO LOL'd at that! But I thought you were a lawyer, not IT? Am I confusing you with someone else? :???:

vmurphy252
07-22-2009, 03:37 PM
Yep. I'm an ERP systems consultant. Have a jack-of-all-trades background in IT.

jack's a lawyer. Although I may be offended if that's the confusion.

vmurphy252
07-22-2009, 03:40 PM
^no offense, jack. j/k.

Almost Jaded
07-22-2009, 05:17 PM
Yeah, i was thinking of Jack, it was the Texas thing that threw me. We'll be expanding a lot, so if you ever want to relocate to Vegas, feel free to shoot me salary history nd resume'... ;)

Cyril
07-22-2009, 08:19 PM
^^^ Portland, OR??? Geesh.

From what I understand that market is already well over saturated with clubs, especially given their population base and high level of unemployment.

One thing in your favor is that it is an area that tends to focus more on stage performances, and extras don't seem as prevelant as other areas. However, this also means you're going to need other factors to set you apart.

Forget about shift rotations for the moment, you're going to have issues hiring talent, espeically TOP talent.

Not only are you going to be competing for customer, but you're going to be competing for dancers. Currently your setup and interview/hiring process is not condusive to hiring or retaining the TOP talent.

- Trying to sell your club as a safe haven for dancers, will not set you apart in this market.

- TOP talent is not going to submit to a full audition, or allow you to perform a background check, if they can walk up to one of your competitors and be hired on site - the normal scenario in that market.

- TOP talent is not going to be thrilled with your revenue sharing setup. While you may be providing a min. level of earnings you are taking away from high end potential earnings of your TOP talent. Not only will this limit your applicants, but any successful dancers will quickly leave "Dream Girls" for higher earning potential at other clubs.

- TOP talent traveling through the area will not even be able to consider working for Dream Girls on an interim basis

- Your drawn out hiring process is going to make it hard for you to manage your numbers, and efficiently hire replacements when you inevitably experience turn over.

Basically, you current set up will likely only be able to hire and retain mid-level talent.


Instead of focusing on construction, interviews/hiring, grand openings, shift rotations, etc. - you should be trying to figure out real inovations. Especially new revenue streams. You can't expect to simply take the same old revenue streams, which are shrinking all over the industry, and just hope to spread them out differently to be profitable/successful.

I have several clients in Portland, OR and they take care of me well. This city got money. Trust me.

If you do not do the background check then how do you know that the candidate does not have any criminal record?

Dream Girls does not guarantee anything. However, it aims to provide adequate training to its strippers so that they can hope to make at least $500/night. This is a commission-based system; therefore top talent will be the top dog just like anywhere else. I just wanted to dispel the notion that Dream Girls will somehow restrict true earning potentials of top dancers.

Anyhow I had a reason why I wanted to know the shift rotation but I will come to that later.

Cyril
07-22-2009, 08:24 PM
I would work there! I love being on stage 100% of the time! I put a lot of thought into my outfits, theme and my music. I am trained in ballet and jazz, and I perform burlesque and belly dance, usually for free. I enjoy showing off my moves and getting a crowd excited to watch me. Unfortunately, most of the time people don't appreciate that kind of show and just want to be grinded on...

I am truly delighted to learn that you would consider working at Dream Girls. I would rather sit in the front row and watch a beautiful talented dancer like yourself than get a lap dance.

Cyril
07-22-2009, 08:27 PM
Now Cyril will say we are not contributing to the thread. Which is wrong. We are contributing, were just not agreeing or feeding into a fantasy land in someone's head. Hey, no wine this time so I said it nicely even ;)

I always enjoy reading your post and I hope we will continue to be cordial to each other even if disagree. I am not expecting everyone to agree with me. All I am asking is be nice. :)

Cyril
07-22-2009, 08:49 PM
The hiring process is in progress.

In the mean time, allow me to disclose the fiscal target set forth by the management. Dream Girls aims to generate $25,000/day from cover charges, liquor sales, air dances and block of time sales. This goal will be probationary in nature for the first quarter while it is being calibrated against the expenses. This goal will either increase or decrease for the second quarter based on the analysis during the first quarter.

Management is formulating a strategy, which will allow Dream Girls to meet its fiscal goals.

Any suggestion would be welcome. Thanks!

(No lap dancing suggestion, please.)

Note: I appended this post to the first post of this thread.

verfolgung
07-22-2009, 08:51 PM
... Dream Girls does not guarantee anything. However, it aims to provide adequate training to its strippers so that they can hope to make at least $500/night. This is a commission-based system; therefore top talent will be the top dog just like anywhere else. I just wanted to dispel the notion that Dream Girls will somehow restrict true earning potentials of top dancers...

This appears to be in conflict wit the following policy ...


... d. Strippers should be given an equitable share of the revenue generated by cover charges and drink sales just like the club will be given an equitable share of revenue generated by tips to strippers ...

Under this structure of revenue sharing, it is inevitable that some dancers are going to get less than what they put in. Unless only the club accepts less than what it put in.

If ALL dancers do better by this revenue sharing plan, or another words ALL dancers will get back more than they contribute, than why even have them contribute? Just allow them to keep their tips, and have the club give them a cut of club revenue. Of course, club profits will suffer.

The only other way around this, is for you to say that the TOP dancers will do better at the expense of those who can least afford it - the bottom dancers. Although, this is unlike the way most revenue sharing plans work.

Cyril
07-22-2009, 09:10 PM
d. Strippers should be given an equitable share of the revenue generated by cover charges and drink sales just like the club will be given an equitable share of revenue generated by tips to strippers ...

Verf,

I can understand why the above paragraph may cause some confusion. But let me clarify. This is a good time to spell out revenue sharing strategy of Dream Girls.

1. Cover Charges: Let us assume Jessica, Melanie and Mina worked the day shift (e.g. 09:00am to 05:00pm). If the club made $5K in cover charges during their shift then they will be given 25% of that revenue, which means each of them will get $416.66.

2. Liquor Sales: Let us assume Jessica is directly responsible for sale of liquor in the amount $500.00 during her shift then she will receive 25% of that revenue, which means she will receive $125.00.

3. Dances and Block of Air Time: If Melanie sells $500.00 worth of dances during her shift then she will receive 75% of that revenue, which means she will receive $375.00.

4. Stage Tips: Let us assume that Mina earned $300.00 in stage tips during her shift then she will receive 75% of that revenue, which means she will receive $225.00.

All sales and commissions are entered into Dream Girls accounting system. Each stripper will receive a check on every other Friday. Strippers are 1099 contractors as such they are responsible for paying their own taxes.

I hope this clarifies the issue.

Note: I have summarized this post and appended it to the first post of this thread under Revenue Sharing Statement

verfolgung
07-22-2009, 09:23 PM
^^^ Your example shows exactly what I was talking about. The club is the only one making net contributions. (Granted, they did benefit from Jessica's efforts.)

Instead of collecting $125 from Melanie and paying her $541 on Fri, you could just give her $291 at the end of the week. If she is always going to make more than she contributes, than why tie up her money for 5 days?

End of the week club just distributes $541 to Jessica, $416 to Mina and $291 to Melanie without needing to take in any of the dancer revenue.

(ETA - Aside: Melanie & Nina are really only doing well because you split the 25% door revenue by 3 dancers. While $5,000 is acutally a somewhat realistice number, 3 dancers is far too few to entertain that many customers. In reality, Melanie, who sold the most dances, might really have done worse after giving up her 25% - thus limiting her income.)


btw - Most clubs are not open at 9AM, and most dancers don't work 9AM-5PM shifts ;)

Cyril
07-22-2009, 09:37 PM
That is not correct. The club is benefiting from revenue generated by strippers through stage show, air dance, block of time, liquor sales (resulting from strippers’ effort), etc.

Similarly, strippers are benefiting from club’s effort e.g., cover charges. Any liquor sales where strippers were not part of it will go entirely to the club.

Well Dream Girls is a professional organization as such appropriate accounting measures will be taken. For now Dream Girls will stick to a bi-weekly pay schedule but Dream Gils may alter that policy if there is a strong consensus on the part of strippers to switch to a weekly pay schedule.

Note: The numbers (and figures) I gave are there to explain the calculation formula.

xdamage
07-22-2009, 09:40 PM
nvrmind...

Cyril
07-22-2009, 09:46 PM
$5000, and let us call it $20 cover charge.

$5000/20 = 250 customers, entertained by 3 girls over 8 hours is an amazing 83.3 customers per dancer, or 10 new customers per hour during the day shift. And this number came out of where?



It clarifies that Dream Girls lives in Dream economy where apparently 10 fresh customers come in every hour and pay $20, during the day shift no less... never mind of course that most clubs can't charge any cover during the day because business is so slow, or that any club that busy would never split the profits over only 3 dancers but would in fact hire many more (but I guess in Dream Girls you would only hire 3 and tell the other 17 who want a job tough luck, those would be the not so happy dancers I guess who have to go work at real SCs)...

It clarifies a key assumption on your part which is that the entire industry is full of stupid people and you are the only one to think of these things, or... that they have to live in reality while you can just make numbers up because you don't actually have to make a club work.

Dude,

Those numbers were given to explain the calculation formula. We do not have actual data on sales at Dream Girls because it is not open yet.

xdamage
07-22-2009, 09:58 PM
You should sit down and calculate the following matters Cyril...

Initial costs to buy and build the club and how many years you plan to amortize that over...

On going costs for lease or rent of the property

On going costs for insurance, liability, property, etc.

On going costs for taxes

On going costs to pay the licenses to play the music

On going costs to keep the bar stocked

On going savings to pay for regular repairs

How much you will be saving monthly for yearly upgrades

On going costs for salaried employees of the club

On going costs to keep permits up to date

Budget for lawyers fees (assume you will have some lawsuits including some frivalous ones that you must defend against).


I can't take you seriously until you tally up your overhead. And I predict your not capable of doing so because that would be real work, real business.

The problem is here is you insult everyone in the industry by assuming you know better then everyone else what works. But while they actually have to make it work, you have absolutely no actual responsibility. It's just an insult to everyone who actually has a real responsibility to make a club work and egotistical to believe you know better.

But yea I think EtP had it right all along, as much as I hate to admit that... since it's all just a dream land... yea, just give the strippers $1,000,000 a night and offer the customers free lap dances. That is not an actual figure, but just to show you how it might work. ::)

Cyril
07-22-2009, 10:05 PM
You should sit down and calculate the following matters Cyril...

Initial costs to buy and build the club and how many years you plan to amortize that over...

On going costs for lease or rent of the property

On going costs for insurance, liability, property, etc.

On going costs for taxes

On going costs to pay the licenses to play the music

On going costs to keep the bar stocked

On going savings to pay for regular repairs

How much you will be saving monthly for yearly upgrades

On going costs for salaried employees of the club

On going costs to keep permits up to date

Budget for lawyers fees (assume you will have some lawsuits including some frivalous ones that you must defend against).



Any volunteers to crunch these numbers? We can divide the work.

charlie61
07-22-2009, 11:46 PM
Pretty sure it's normal for most businesses to actually lose money for the first couple of years of business. How would you account for this?

The numbers are impossible to crunch unless you're looking at reality, anyway. You can't calculate the cost of a property unless you know its size, its location (middle of nowhere vs. major city), etc. etc. etc.

Isn't this much more fun when it's left to pure imagination?

Earl_the_Pearl
07-22-2009, 11:52 PM
I am thinking of giving this honor to Earl.


I would be honored; friends of the owner always get first class service; one might call it full service.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-22-2009, 11:58 PM
Forget about shift rotations for the moment, you're going to have issues hiring talent, espeically TOP talent.

Shift rotations are the most important thing and they are worked out in the owners office. :shhh:

Earl_the_Pearl
07-23-2009, 12:03 AM
I would work there! I love being on stage 100% of the time! I put a lot of thought into my outfits, theme and my music. I am trained in ballet and jazz, and I perform burlesque and belly dance, usually for free. I enjoy showing off my moves and getting a crowd excited to watch me. Unfortunately, most of the time people don't appreciate that kind of show and just want to be grinded on...
You were born 50 years too late.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-23-2009, 12:14 AM
2. Liquor Sales: Let us assume Jessica is directly responsible for sale of liquor in the amount $500.00 during her shift then she will receive 25% of that revenue, which means she will receive $125.00.
In New Jersey it is against the law for a dancer the get any cut of drinks she hustles; of course this is ignored as are most of the club laws. Just a heads up if you don't want to break any laws.

Earl_the_Pearl
07-23-2009, 12:15 AM
btw - Most clubs are not open at 9AM, and most dancers don't work 9AM-5PM shifts ;)
Legs & eggs 7AM.

mediocrity
07-23-2009, 03:51 AM
d. Strippers should be given an equitable share of the revenue generated by cover charges and drink sales just like the club will be given an equitable share of revenue generated by tips to strippers ...

Verf,

I can understand why the above paragraph may cause some confusion. But let me clarify. This is a good time to spell out revenue sharing strategy of Dream Girls.

1. Cover Charges: Let us assume Jessica, Melanie and Mina worked the day shift (e.g. 09:00am to 05:00pm). If the club made $5K in cover charges during their shift then they will be given 25% of that revenue, which means each of them will get $416.66.

2. Liquor Sales: Let us assume Jessica is directly responsible for sale of liquor in the amount $500.00 during her shift then she will receive 25% of that revenue, which means she will receive $125.00.

3. Dances and Block of Air Time: If Melanie sells $500.00 worth of dances during her shift then she will receive 75% of that revenue, which means she will receive $375.00.

4. Stage Tips: Let us assume that Mina earned $300.00 in stage tips during her shift then she will receive 75% of that revenue, which means she will receive $225.00.

All sales and commissions are entered into Dream Girls accounting system. Each stripper will receive a check on every other Friday. Strippers are 1099 contractors as such they are responsible for paying their own taxes.

I hope this clarifies the issue.

In regards to your #1... most club require just a four hour minimum from girls, at least in LV. But we have 3 shifts at my club. 1pm-9pm (can come in anytime between 1 and 4, 4 hr minimum), 9pm-3am (can come in anytime from 9-11, 4 hr minimum) and 3am-9am (4 hr minimum) and then everyone "floats" from 9am til 1pm.
Shift costs are $45, $80 and $40, respectively.

At my air dance club, floor dances were $10 a pop, blocks of time being $200 for a half, and $400 for an hour, tips appreciated. The club took nothing aside from the house fee, 10% to the DJ, and $7 to the housemother.

verfolgung
07-23-2009, 04:09 AM
Legs & eggs 7AM.

Hence the word "most" and not "all". ;)

verfolgung
07-23-2009, 04:23 AM
... Note: The numbers (and figures) I gave are there to explain the calculation formula.

Still, if the part of the point was to show how a dancer's income would not be limited, but rather enhanced, than the numbers are a bit unrealistic and also fairly misleading.

To test if a rev sharing plan is really feasible you don't need "actual" sales data (not that you will ever have "actual" sales data). You can test the model with what is typically achieved now in the market, without just assuming that you are automatically going to be doing better than everyone else. Call it the "base case", and if the model fails that test, you may have to adjust it.

Still, since you rev. sharing plan is based on the "gross" and not the "net" than you really have to look at your NOI projections to see if you can afford this hit. As I mentioned before, the industry is struggling in many areas, and you keep focusing on the same old rev. streams (door charges, food/bev sales, VIP room rentals) while also reducing income (no dancer house fees & rev. sharing). Unless you can demonstrate an ability to generate new rev. streams or find a way to cut your costs by operating more efficiently than everyone else, than I fear you're club's long term viability will be in doubt. You need more innovations beyond a helipad.

verfolgung
07-23-2009, 04:24 AM
Not sure if he will be able to keep from violating Dream Girls PL Rule #3C ...

Thank you for making my point. ;)


I would be honored; friends of the owner always get first class service; one might call it full service.

xdamage
07-23-2009, 04:43 AM
Let me answer like this...

Like most companies ours stated small and someone(s) had to invest a large chunk of cash with the expectation that in time, they will get it back and then some. There was a lot invested by the initial venture capitalists who are still not happy they haven't received all of their money back after > 10 years but wait it out and hold stock. Technically then it operates at a loss even though we had positive cash flow during some good years.

Like many companies, during better times we slowly received more perks and pay, but now...we recently took some across the board pay cuts again. We've lost some perks. We've lost a few people. We haven't been hurt badly yet because the company operated frugally during the good years and saved money, but the reality is they are setting us up now to expect decreasing benefits, and implying that more cuts are possible.

Would it be more fun to imagine we could have had more benefits during the good years (while ignoring there would be less in the bank today and we'd be in trouble)? Would it be fun to imagine we could have more benefits during these years when the economy is slow? Depends...

I mean it might be fun in the short term to let our imaginations runs wild, but shortly after you risk human nature 101. You're left with people who either understand it cant work or worse, people who end up feeling they are entitled to them.

And in fact that is precisely what happened after some recent across the board pay cuts at our job. Many newer people ended up incredibly pissed believing that our benefit decreases are strictly someone else greed and if only someone else would give up their cut it would be better. Fingers point in multiple directions, but rarely does anyone point at themselves when it is time to save. Human nature 101.

Only a small percentage of us who have been through this (the pay cuts) really coped gracefully. We know the business may eventually cycle upwards again, but we also know our benefits are not assured. That the business as a whole has to be make sufficient money to cover its operating expenses, to bank for the rainy days and to pay back its investors.

So would it be fun if we sat around at work and dreamed up more perks? a greater percentage of the benefits? to ignore the economic losses? to ignore that the initial investments still need to be paid back with interests? to ignore that smart businesses also save and operate frugally for the inevitable downturns?

We sure don't sit around doing it because long term it leaves us feeling worse off vs coming to grips with the realities of the economics, and figuring out how to make ourselves more valuable.

WiseGuy_TX
07-23-2009, 06:21 AM
1. Cover Charges: Let us assume Jessica, Melanie and Mina worked the day shift (e.g. 09:00am to 05:00pm). ...i'm not showing up that early unless they have a Starbucks.


All sales and commissions are entered into Dream Girls accounting system. Each stripper will receive a check on every other Friday. Strippers are 1099 contractors as such they are responsible for paying their own taxes....Cyril, the IRS found out about Dream Girls and are serving you papers reminding you that your business model makes dancers employees not independent contractors. Looks like you will be paying their taxes.

Whether a person is an independent contractor or an employee generally depends on the amount of control exercised by the employer over the work being done. Dictating how a job is to be done or limiting the actions of the worker may establish an employer-employee relationship.

An independent contractor:

Operates under a business name
Has their own employees
Maintains a separate business checking account
Advertises their business' services
Invoices for work done
Has more than one client
Has their own tools and sets their own hours
Keeps business records
An employee:

Performs duties dictated or controlled by others
Is given training for work to be done
Works for only one employer
The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) relies on the facts in each case. It does not recognize the validity of any written agreement between the parties.



And by law, due to the number of employees, you may be required to provide insurance/benefits.

xdamage
07-23-2009, 08:36 AM
I've seen a lot of attempts at stand-alone bars fail over the years. What is left around here are a few dive bars. I can't even think of any super-bars that offer nothing else. Even Starbucks has managed to be more successful selling drinks then the bars here. I don't believe just selling alcoholic drinks keeps the doors open. You need a draw, a restaurant, a casino, strippers, something too to bring people in, but even then regulars can only drink so much due to DUI laws.

I've seen a lot of attempts at night clubs fail over the years too. What remains are often in expensive parts of the city, where rents are high, and still no guarantee that they will succeed.

I've seen many businesses including restaurants, and SCs fail that have bars. The bar alone is no guarantee of success.

The thing about all business is that we employees or contractors see the money rolling in, but we are never present when the checks are being signed for all the out going money. I'm certainly no expert at it, but realized even my off the top list missed several regular expenses including janitorial services, utilities, trash removal, and more. I really don't know what all it costs to run the company I'm in even though I am there 5-7 days a week as an employee and have been for 15 some years in the same company. All of the costs and investments have not been revealed to me even if I do see various sales of product go by.

I think the key difference between a successful business owner and a failure or lucky exception (luck happens) is that successful owners are realists. They have to be.

Almost Jaded
07-23-2009, 10:47 AM
WiseGuy - you make an excellent - and correct - point. It should be noted however, that the IRS is not exactly reliable when it comes to enforcing those rules. Every SC I've ever known anything about violates the 1099 limits in at least two ways, many of them many more. Even the "good" clubs which are not intentionally screwing the girls over find it almost impossible to comply in reality because let's face it - the girls ARE employees. Many of the girls WANT to be 1099, but the rules are the rules and it's impossible to comply the way a club operates.

Cyril nd others in this discussion now...

1. - Most new businesses do not see their first profit dollar over operational expenses for 18 months.

2. - Most new businesses fail before they see that dollar. Yes MOST, over 70%.

3. - There are many, many factors that contribute to this, but the lack of early planning and improper estimation of startup and operational costs is a big factor.

4. - The single biggest mistake I see new business owners make, both in the startup phase and for the first few years, I also see being made here - both by Cyril nd those who have critiqued and/or tried to help by posting lists of costs or issues to address. MARKETING. People seem to think that they will open a business and the people will come flooding through the door - this is not the case. There is a reason that companies who already have MASSIVE brand recognition dump BILLIONS into marketing - and it's not because they need to burn off a few hundred million a quarter for write offs. Marketing will make or break this new club, and nobody has mentioned it yet.

5. - Cyril, you're asking people to crunch those numbers? Accurate figures require hours upon hours of real research. I can't imagine you asking people on the board to invest that kind of time and effort for a theoretical effort in a Vb thread; that's stuff a college kid would get very real credit for and stuff that business like the one I and my partners run pay a lot of money to have done or invest HUNDREDS of our own hours to. I told you our conclusion already: $3 million startup money with a roughly equal pot for ongoing operational expanses before profit. For a very basic operation. $1 million startup and a few hundred grand for ongoing could pull it off if you're opening a small club outside of town a ways.

xdamage
07-23-2009, 11:22 AM
^^^ Marketing is another good point, though it may depend on the location. Around here there are either laws limiting where SCs can advertise, or they cannot afford it. Just never see them though many have an internet presence, but nothing local. Could be they are advertising in other venues though that are not available locally.

sorsi
07-23-2009, 12:14 PM
Personally, I'd be happy if clubs operated like the strip pubs in the UK, or like the strip clubs from 'back in the day' in the US.

Guys are required to tip at least $1 per song ($1 in the early 90's; should be $2 per song by now). LDs and VIP rooms are not available. Clubs have low overhead and make profit from cover charges and liquor sales, dancers make money from stage tips.

Now, a vital element is that stage shows would have to return to being creative and interesting and sexy and on the level of actual performance, not how they are now (mostly just a sea of bored-looking girls in nearly-identical lycra bikini sets twirling lazily around a pole and humping the stage floor).

Also, clubs would hire less girls, and would be a LOT more selective in their choices. Since they are making profit from cover and drinks, not 'house fees', there's no need to have 50+ girls on a shift. Instead, 8-12 girls per night would rotate doing their stage shows. Both the dancers and their shows would be of a much higher quality than most are today. Only the most attractive dancers would be hired, and they would actually have to have talent and dance/performance abilities.

It's worked this way in the past, and ironically, the few stage clubs I've worked in lately have been doing really well $$$-wise. Girls are still clamoring to get into pubs like Browns and the White Horse in London (where the model is like what I describe) and there is still good money there, despite the miserable state most 'lapdance model' strip clubs are in right now.

I find it telling that most stage clubs are doing so well (and a lot of lapdance clubs are struggling so much) "in this economy" and in this day and age. A lot of girls and customers alike have expressed a desire to return to stage dancing and entertainment, and would love it if 'the hustle' was done away with. Guys could come in and relax and have a good time (as long as they're tipping the stage regularly as required!) and not have girls pestering and browbeating them for $20's. Girls could come to work and actually *dance* and make several hundred a night, and not have the stress of making ridiculous house fees/payouts or being touched or wondering if they're going to walk out with $$ or not at the end of the night. Everyone wins--except for the perverts who want to get off in their pants, the guys who are too cheap to tip the stage, and the girls who really aren't attractive enough to be strippers.

xdamage
07-23-2009, 01:07 PM
Personally, I'd be happy if clubs operated like the strip pubs in the UK, or like the strip clubs from 'back in the day' in the US. ...


Also, clubs would hire less girls, and would be a LOT more selective in their choices. Since they are making profit from cover and drinks, not 'house fees', there's no need to have 50+ girls on a shift. Instead, 8-12 girls per night would rotate doing their stage shows. Both the dancers and their shows would be of a much higher quality than most are today. Only the most attractive dancers would be hired, and they would actually have to have talent and dance/performance abilities.

It's worked this way in the past...

Everyone wins--except for the perverts who want to get off in their pants, the guys who are too cheap to tip the stage, and the girls who really aren't attractive enough to be strippers.

Well I agree it would work but as with all things in life there are trade offs. Basically you're talking about cutting the number of hired dancers significantly. Everyone would agree it is a win except for the 42-38 who are out of work (using your 50+ vs 8-12 #s). I'm not saying I'm opposed, just that again, there are always trade offs if you look for them. And I'm guessing as much as everyone would agree, not many dancers want to be in the group that is cut. For them this business model is a 100% loss in revenue and they are not going to be happy (Cyrils dream fantasy at least didn't put them out of work).

Earl_the_Pearl
07-23-2009, 02:39 PM
...Cyril, the IRS found out about Dream Girls and are serving you papers reminding you that your business model makes dancers employees not independent contractors. Looks like you will be paying their taxes.

No dancers are true independent contractors. In my neck of the woods not one gets a 1099 nor pay taxes. Why this is so universally ignored I do not know as this is a federal matter.

I guess the feds are busy doing other things in NJ.

WiseGuy_TX
07-23-2009, 06:36 PM
No dancers are true independent contractors. In my neck of the woods not one gets a 1099 nor pay taxes. Why this is so universally ignored I do not know as this is a federal matter.

I guess the feds are busy doing other things in NJ.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32103250/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/...yes they are employees in Cyril's club under his business model. We are not talking reality in NJ or anywhere else.

mediocrity
07-23-2009, 06:41 PM
I have several clients in Portland, OR and they take care of me well. This city got money. Trust me.

If you do not do the background check then how do you know that the candidate does not have any criminal record?

Dream Girls does not guarantee anything. However, it aims to provide adequate training to its strippers so that they can hope to make at least $500/night. This is a commission-based system; therefore top talent will be the top dog just like anywhere else. I just wanted to dispel the notion that Dream Girls will somehow restrict true earning potentials of top dancers.

Anyhow I had a reason why I wanted to know the shift rotation but I will come to that later.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3/175751-you_dont_know_jack_large.jpg