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Almost Jaded
08-30-2009, 12:44 AM
I was wondering when teh Kinsey stuff was going to rear it's head, lol. Good find, that article.
I'm going to be frank; I'm of two minds and all but completely undecided on some aspects of that issue. Unfortunately, I can't go into it without breaching the trust of some people very close to me who have confided some experiences, or incriminating some people who are in no way criminals for their nevertheless illegal activities (what DO you do if you find out the 19 year old you just spent all weekend fucking was 15 and using a fake ID at the club? Tough one.).
Hopper
08-30-2009, 01:20 AM
^Like when Mark Renton meets Diane at a nightclub in "Trainspotter" and goes home with her, then freaks the next morning when she comes downstairs in her school uniform. To the viewer, it's a laugh; but talk about it happenning in real life, and some people freak.
I dont necessarily like the idea of men screwing 16-yo's either. The laws about them are not likely to cause me any frustration. If it comes to that, I can just wait a couple of years.
hockeybobby
08-30-2009, 05:32 AM
Having more women in positions of importance in politics imo is desirable for what they bring to the table, and just for fairness. They are half the people in the world, they should be better represented in the centers of power. Our political parties here all at least pay lip service to promoting women candidates. I can't see women fucking things up any worse than men have.
princessjas
08-30-2009, 08:09 AM
Hopper, it's just so nice and sporting of you (and logical might I add) to continue to rip into me after I stated I was done. Nope, I'm sure that isn't your anger and hatred (emotions) taking over at all. ::)
Just to correct a few points you made against me. I didn't bring up the pedophile thing, go looksie, don't lie. I believe it was Elvia who mentioned it and then you kept harping on it. Also, take another look at the pedophile thread. I didn't get upset at all until a bunch of men jumped on me all at once, one of whom I was very good friends with at the time. Yep, being attacked by a friend and destroying a friendship did cause a tiny bit of distress and I got a bit pissy. I believe that is a normal reaction to that situation that many men would also share.
It's also notable that of everyone here, the only people who have called my arguments unreasonable and emotional in this thread are the 2 men who oppose my political views, support sexism in the workplace (in other words, not allowing women in certain professions), and believe it is "not wrong" to fuck 16-yr olds (which, pls be honest, WAS what you said to me in the past thread and in your PM's, I believe this "in certain situations" thing just arose after you realized you may have found a supporter in AJ if you qualified it a bit). I also just looked up the PM in question, your assertion that I called you a pedophile is a blatant lie. Your PM was actually titled "Sexual predator?" not pedophile and you actually use the words "not wrong." I believe you also got emotional and commented on my "big white ass" in that thread, or was that Cyril, can't remember, but either way, you referenced it again in your PM...not exactly unemotional, making a rude comment about my ass avi, eh?
Also, Mods, is it not at least a pointable offense for him to bring up information that was sent via PM. I really don't care, if he is honest about the exchange (If not I will correct him, which I am sorry if that is out of line, but he is lying about what was said), but considering he didn't even ask me if it was okay before he shared a PM, well, I'm pretty certain that is against the rules. Right?
yoda57us
08-30-2009, 10:34 AM
Also, Mods, is it not at least a pointable offense for him to bring up information that was sent via PM. I really don't care, if he is honest about the exchange (If not I will correct him, which I am sorry if that is out of line, but he is lying about what was said), but considering he didn't even ask me if it was okay before he shared a PM, well, I'm pretty certain that is against the rules. Right?
Actually I always thought it was against the rules...you could report the post but I think the mods are on vacation...:-\
sugartaste
08-30-2009, 11:20 AM
I just honestly don't understand WHY men find 16 year olds attractive-yeah they may have adult bodies but their faces are still so childlike and undeveloped. Hell, I know I'm a lot better looking at 28 than I was at 16. And as for why women aren't hated on for dating 16 year old boys-well, you obviously haven't been paying attention to the news or you'd know that they are busting (female) teachers left and right for sleeping with their students. It's not acceptable for either side to sleep with children (and I'm sorry, but a 16 year old is a child male or female). Saying "but they look 18" is not an acceptable excuse.
The rest of this thread is just old fashioned misogyny packaged to make it seem like women didn't really want equal rights until the evil feminists told them they did. LOL, that's so far from the truth.
MissMynxx
08-30-2009, 01:09 PM
Hoo boy. I was trying really hard to keep my nose out of this thread. Just quietly follow along, and I was doing REALLY well. Until this whole "sexual predator" thing popped up. So, here's my :twocents:...
I really don't get why you think I'm hate filled toward you, I really don't feel anything at all for you except mild disgust when you assert your sexist and predatory thoughts.
Let me just toss in, not necessarily as an attack on you, PJ, but coming from the POV of another woman on these boards, that I don't personally feel that anything that's been said by Hopper in particular is sexist or predatory. Having dealt with honest-to-god sexists and predators, his thought process is pretty much one of the furthest things from it. He's merely showing a different side to the issue, IMO.
Oh, and in my PM I believe I told you I didn't care if you were a pedophile or a predator, both were equally repulsive...and thank the lord, it is illegal in most places for grown men to sleep with 16 year olds. I have experience with being the 16 yr old pursued by the adult, and it is very intimidating/scary/gross/flattering all at once. You feel you can't tell another adult because of attitudes like your's and AJ's...but just want to run and hide (and maybe get more attention from said guy even though you are scared/grossed out as a few friends of mine experienced). The VAST majority of 16 year olds are NOT capable of dealing with the emotional complexities of a sexual relationship with an adult. The authority figure role changes all the dynamics and causes tremendous stress (or it did for me and a few friends who had the same thing happen).
Again, not an attack. I just feel the need to give a different perspective. I have experience with being the "16 year old" (at the time, I was actually the 11 year old) who was pursued by an authority figure and was sexually abused. It was indeed scary and gross and even in a weird way a little flattering. Rather than go through extensive counseling and have a "victim complex", I figured I had a choice. Develop the victim complex, never trust men again, etc - or, I could take the experience for what it was, and understand that despite that it was a negative experience, that obviously people have sex once and do it again, that I could go and see what it was all about and experience it the RIGHT way.
I was a very sexually active 11 year old. I actively sought out older men, and had to do some convincing to some of them that I honestly WAS capable of handling it, and that I wanted it and knew what I was getting into. Now, it may just be the crowds of people that you and I fell into, but I would hazard to say that the VAST majority of 16 year olds are DEFINITELY capable of handling "emotional complexities of sexual relationships", whether with their peers or with older men.
I truly believe, having read this entire thread, that what Hopper and AJ are saying (and what Hopper was in fact saying from the beginning), that in certain situations, there is NOT anything wrong with having sexual relations with a girl (or boy, as the case may be) who is 16. If she knows, like I did, damn well and fine what she's in for and what's going in, there isn't anything wrong with it. Where it becomes wrong is when that girl can assert that she DOES NOT want it, and she is forced into it anyway. When a grown man begins the process of forcing the issue is when he becomes a "predator", IMO.
It honestly sounds like you didn't read the article that Hopper posted. It's fascinating, and could perhaps help shed some light on our (yes, OUR. I'm on Hopper's side here.) position on the matter. Neither of us, or AJ, are sexual predators, or condoning unwanted sexual contact with minors. We are, however, saying that in certain situations, the matter should be further explored and dealt with on a case-by-case basis. And boys, please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you could lend some credibility to your arguments if you'd TRY to look at it logically from the other POV.
Now I'm tired of the character assassinations from a member who contributes very little or nothing to this site and then calls contributing dancers trolls on a regular basis. Go ahead and believe women are too emotional for certain roles, even have other men here support you. You and AJ can call all of my arguements, even my listing of well-known facts emotional. I know longer care. I'm tired of arguing against what I feel is a completely sexist and very narrow-minded viewpoint and frankly after reading your input here, I consider you both so far beneath me that I've lost interest.
Also, Mods, is it not at least a pointable offense for him to bring up information that was sent via PM. I really don't care, if he is honest about the exchange (If not I will correct him, which I am sorry if that is out of line, but he is lying about what was said), but considering he didn't even ask me if it was okay before he shared a PM, well, I'm pretty certain that is against the rules. Right?
Just wondering, here. Do you realize how you sound? How you come across in this last paragraph? And in the second quote as well? If you'd honestly take a look at what you're saying and where it's coming from - your logic, or your emotions - maybe you'd realize just how much credibility you're lending to the other side of the argument here. All you're succeeding in doing here, honey, is proving THEIR point. I realize you said you're done, and I respect that, and I respect you - but really?
Almost Jaded
08-30-2009, 01:48 PM
It's also notable that of everyone here, the only people who have called my arguments unreasonable and emotional in this thread are the 2 men who oppose my political views, support sexism in the workplace (in other words, not allowing women in certain professions), and believe it is "not wrong" to fuck 16-yr olds...
PJ, c'mon, this is exactly the kind of blanket statement and character attack that Hopper has been complaining about. In one sentence, you have pigeonholed our political views (VERY wrongly I might ad), grossly misstated both mine and Hoppers positions on several topics, accused us of being sexist and predatory, and singled us out as the only 2 people here who feel the way we do - which again, you clearly don't grasp and misstated in the first place.
How should one react to that?
EDIT - yikes, I posted that after reading PJ's post and didn't keep reading, lol. I love ya' babe, but I was hoping you wouldn't get into this one. You're going to catch a lot of heat for that. :(
MarvelGirl
08-30-2009, 02:28 PM
So grown men fucking 11 year olds is now totally cool.
fucking christ... I'm glad I don't have daughters.
princessjas
08-30-2009, 02:55 PM
PJ, c'mon, this is exactly the kind of blanket statement and character attack that Hopper has been complaining about. In one sentence, you have pigeonholed our political views (VERY wrongly I might ad), grossly misstated both mine and Hoppers positions on several topics, accused us of being sexist and predatory, and singled us out as the only 2 people here who feel the way we do - which again, you clearly don't grasp and misstated in the first place.
How should one react to that?
EDIT - yikes, I posted that after reading PJ's post and didn't keep reading, lol. I love ya' babe, but I was hoping you wouldn't get into this one. You're going to catch a lot of heat for that. :(
Actually AJ, I didn't pigeonhole your political views, I just said that you both disagree with me politically. I didn't say that your views were wrong or anything of the sort or attempt to list details. Remember last night when I said that I liked you and didn't want to talk politics due to our opposing views, well, I happen to looove Hillary, btw, so I'd say our views are opposing, wouldn't you? Reminding you that we are on different sides politically does not seem like a character assasination to me. Does it really seem like one to you? :shrug:
The predator thing was correcting Hopper when he has repeatedly accused me of calling him a pedophile via PM and repeatedly misstated the content of a PM. In this PM I actually said I thought his statement that it was "not wrong to fuck 16 year old girls" was more predatory than anything and agreed he was not a pedophile. I actually defended you by saying that I thought his new "in certain situations" statement was to garner your support (because I assumed his original blanket statement would have alienated your support as well, but I didn't feel the need to write that part out, thought it would be understood).
And actually I said the only 2 people that said I was irrational in this thread, not the only 2 people that thought it...now I'll correct it to 3 people, MM included.
Oh, and don't worry about me attacking MissMynxx. She's engaged to you so of course she supports you. I was actually suprised she didn't jump in and flame me much earlier. (Not saying her post was inflammatory, it was actually much more controlled than I expected.) Trust me, I do understand supporting those you care about. Been there done that. ;)
Just keep in mind, I didn't attack you AJ. You jumped in to support Hopper and I have made an effort to be nice. Once again, look at my statement where I pointed out that I thought he may have watered down his previous statement to garner your support and my post in response to your statement about the individual decisions on a case by case basis to determine if an older minor is capable of handling sex.
However, I will never under any circumstances stand back and allow someone to state that women are incapable of being logical and unfit for some professions without standing up and saying something.
The bottom line is this: I don't think you would like it if I started saying that men were unfit for those same positions due to their lack of empathy and elevated aggression levels. It would be exactly the same thing, but every man on this board would go batshit crazy (and with good reason). Asking for the same respect for women should not have caused such a stir. Period.
princessjas
08-30-2009, 03:08 PM
Just wondering, here. Do you realize how you sound? How you come across in this last paragraph? And in the second quote as well? If you'd honestly take a look at what you're saying and where it's coming from - your logic, or your emotions - maybe you'd realize just how much credibility you're lending to the other side of the argument here. All you're succeeding in doing here, honey, is proving THEIR point. I realize you said you're done, and I respect that, and I respect you - but really?
Since you are involved with AJ and therefore defending him I won't respond to most of your post, but I would like to know why you felt my asking if it was okay to post info from PM's and if it was still pointable was somehow wrong or looked bad? I still have the PM's in my inbox and what Hopper said I wrote just isn't there. He lied or was mistaken. I do not like to be railed publicly for things I did not say. I don't believe anyone would. What he claimed I said was much more offensive and colored me as much more aggressive than what was actually wrote. His PM to me was actually very rude, it was bad enough to make me ask him not to contact me again and on advice of a good friend warned him that I would report any future offensive PM's (He is the only person I have EVER asked not to contact me again).
Oh, and 3 or 4 years ago, I believe there was a big tadoo about revealing PM info publicly. Although I really wouldn't have said anything about it if he would have been truthful about my response to his PM. ;)
MissMynxx
08-30-2009, 03:09 PM
So grown men fucking 11 year olds is now totally cool.
fucking christ... I'm glad I don't have daughters.
Where in FUCK did I say that grown men fucking 11 year olds is totally cool?! The man who did that to me - AGAINST MY WILL - was prosecuted, is on the registered sex offender list, spent time in prison, and to this day I have a restraining order on him.
Aside from that, when I went into the fact that I was a sexually active 11 year old, it took time - and I should have made that a bit more clear - before I started heading after older men. Believe it or not, there are a LOT of us out there who are curious and knowledgeable between the ages of 11 and 13.
MissMynxx
08-30-2009, 03:15 PM
Oh, and don't worry about me attacking MissMynxx. She's engaged to you so of course she supports you. I was actually suprised she didn't jump in and flame me much earlier. (Not saying her post was inflammatory, it was actually much more controlled than I expected.) Trust me, I do understand supporting those you care about. Been there done that. ;)
Oh for the LOVE of God. Way to perpetuate a fucked up stereotype I fight every fucking day. I have my own brain, PJ. I don't run up and support AJ JUST because I'm engaged to him! He and I disagree on many subjects, and when we are in the company of others who support both views, I have, will, and can argue against him. You, whether intentionally or not, just accused me of having something to say on the matter purely because my fiance had joined the conversation. So young, engaged women suddenly can't have an opinion on a matter that happens to coincide with their fiance's without it being nothing more than "a girl supporting her man". Way to perpetuate anti-feminist and chauvinistic mindsets. I don't appreciate that at all. You knocked yourself down several respect points not only as a member of this board, but as a woman. Way to go.
However, I will never under any circumstances stand back and allow someone to state that women are incapable of being logical and unfit for some professions without standing up and saying something.
The bottom line is this: I don't think you would like it if I started saying that men were unfit for those same positions due to their lack of empathy and elevated aggression levels. It would be exactly the same thing, but every man on this board would go batshit crazy (and with good reason). Asking for the same respect for women should not have caused such a stir. Period.
No, you won't stand back and let women be treated unfairly. You will however, at the drop of a hat when you FEEL your viewpoints are being challenged and threatened, begin to defend yourself by using the very same level of stereotype you're saying you fight. That's ridiculous.
vmurphy252
08-30-2009, 03:30 PM
Hey! Look! Elvis!
princessjas
08-30-2009, 03:44 PM
Oh for the LOVE of God. Way to perpetuate a fucked up stereotype I fight every fucking day. I have my own brain, PJ. I don't run up and support AJ JUST because I'm engaged to him! He and I disagree on many subjects, and when we are in the company of others who support both views, I have, will, and can argue against him. You, whether intentionally or not, just accused me of having something to say on the matter purely because my fiance had joined the conversation. So young, engaged women suddenly can't have an opinion on a matter that happens to coincide with their fiance's without it being nothing more than "a girl supporting her man". Way to perpetuate anti-feminist and chauvinistic mindsets. I don't appreciate that at all. You knocked yourself down several respect points not only as a member of this board, but as a woman. Way to go.
No, you won't stand back and let women be treated unfairly. You will however, at the drop of a hat when you FEEL your viewpoints are being challenged and threatened, begin to defend yourself by using the very same level of stereotype you're saying you fight. That's ridiculous.
If you think people's views are not influenced by those they care about and surround themselves with them you really are misguided. I, in no way believe that you can't think for yourself, just that if you are involved with someone you are much more sensitive to their beliefs and point of view on most topics.
No need to be so rude when I was attempting to be nice to you and your fiance. I realize you are young, and like most young people will probably balk at any hint of not having your own opinions. However, I certainly didn't mean you don't have your own mind, just that it is human nature to agree with those you love. (yeah, go ahead and rail me for saying young people are more likely to balk at that one, but it really is true, most people mellow as they age.) We probably agree more with those we love in part because we are attracted to those who share our viewpoints. I know I have never been attracted to anyone with a vastly different world view. ;)
MissMynxx
08-30-2009, 04:06 PM
If you think people's views are not influenced by those they care about and surround themselves with them you really are misguided. I, in no way believe that you can't think for yourself, just that if you are involved with someone you are much more sensitive to their beliefs and point of view on most topics.
No need to be so rude when I was attempting to be nice to you and your fiance. I realize you are young, and like most young people will probably balk at any hint of not having your own opinions. However, I certainly didn't mean you don't have your own mind, just that it is human nature to agree with those you love. (yeah, go ahead and rail me for saying young people are more likely to balk at that one, but it really is true, most people mellow as they age.) We probably agree more with those we love in part because we are attracted to those who share our viewpoints. I know I have never been attracted to anyone with a vastly different world view. ;)
Did I indicate that I don't believe that people's views aren't influenced by those they care about? No. I simply said that the way you came across certainly sounded as though you believed I only replied because I was coming to my fiance's aid. This is what you've been doing this entire thread - reading into people's posts and drawing incorrect conclusions.
I also don't appreciate you bringing age into this. While it may have had relevance during the sexual discussion - my age has nothing to do with what I had to say. I recognize fully that many of my opinions and life views are still forming, but that is NO excuse for you jumping up on a high horse, and now - when you realize you were wrong about my commenting purely to support AJ, you now try to spin it in a "I'm older, and I'm going to teach you a little something about the world." It won't work.
I've been attracted to people with vastly different world views. I was with one of them for nearly 2 years! Granted, it may not have worked out in the end - but it is a possible arrangement. Get off the high horse. You may find that while you're often right about people - some of us out there, you can learn something from. Try listening - AGAIN - with a logical ear. Suppress that knee-jerk emotional reaction, let pragmatism kick in, and see what happens.
The point of my comments in the first place was to share my opinions and feelings on the topic at hand, which happened to support Hopper and AJ. I am not interested in a debate about how "young people" think and develop their opinions and views on the world. You weren't attempting to be nice. You're using back-handed techniques to paint yourself in a positive light. It's really annoying, it's a high-school technique. When you get cut off at one corner, you're just trying to spin it to seem like you meant something else. Like I said - it won't work.
I'm happy to continue debating with you in a friendly manner, and to see if there's anything I can learn from your point of view, provided you'll do the same. ;)
princessjas
08-30-2009, 05:51 PM
Did I indicate that I don't believe that people's views aren't influenced by those they care about? No. I simply said that the way you came across certainly sounded as though you believed I only replied because I was coming to my fiance's aid. This is what you've been doing this entire thread - reading into people's posts and drawing incorrect conclusions.
I also don't appreciate you bringing age into this. While it may have had relevance during the sexual discussion - my age has nothing to do with what I had to say. I recognize fully that many of my opinions and life views are still forming, but that is NO excuse for you jumping up on a high horse, and now - when you realize you were wrong about my commenting purely to support AJ, you now try to spin it in a "I'm older, and I'm going to teach you a little something about the world." It won't work.
I've been attracted to people with vastly different world views. I was with one of them for nearly 2 years! Granted, it may not have worked out in the end - but it is a possible arrangement. Get off the high horse. You may find that while you're often right about people - some of us out there, you can learn something from. Try listening - AGAIN - with a logical ear. Suppress that knee-jerk emotional reaction, let pragmatism kick in, and see what happens.
The point of my comments in the first place was to share my opinions and feelings on the topic at hand, which happened to support Hopper and AJ. I am not interested in a debate about how "young people" think and develop their opinions and views on the world. You weren't attempting to be nice. You're using back-handed techniques to paint yourself in a positive light. It's really annoying, it's a high-school technique. When you get cut off at one corner, you're just trying to spin it to seem like you meant something else. Like I said - it won't work.
I'm happy to continue debating with you in a friendly manner, and to see if there's anything I can learn from your point of view, provided you'll do the same. ;)
I actually did mean that generally people view things in the same light as their SO's. Like attracts like in nearly all cases. I am NOT trying to spin anything to seem like I meant something else. The guy I'm involved with and I have very similar world views, as I had with my husband and every serious bf before that. I don't know of ANY couples that don't see eye to eye on basic topics like this. Relationships are just too damn hard without having dramatically different world views. I'm betting you were much younger when you were with the person that had majorly different views, or that you disagreed on a few, but agreed on many (or there could be the overwhelming sexual attraction thing, but that usually doesn't negate vastly different views).
BTW - I have no interest in debating about your age either. It really is true that not only I but pretty much all my friends also were more aggressive about defending our independence in our early 20's. I'm sure it was due to it being questioned and challenged more often and I'm very sorry if that part of my post came across that way. Not my intent at all. I just meant that I also used to be a crusader that would have been pissed at any hint my opinion was influenced by anyone, but as I aged, I basically gave up, because I despise conflict. (I was trying to be nice, albeit clumsily.)
Also, I think you got at least as emotional in your post as I did, reading things into my post that just weren't there. I'm very blunt and unflinchingly honest...if you read back through my posts, you can see that in at least one past discussion when I got pissy and was called on it, I apologized and admitted that I was wrong, exagerated and was just being pissy. Hell, notice when I gave my soon to be ex's opinion on here, I fully disclosed what he said, knowing good and well that Hopper would jump on it.
I'm sorry if you disagree, but I really do believe that couples generally see eye to eye on most topics and that people are much more likely to defend their partner than someone they don't know. Say if you agreed with me in another thread, where you knew if you jumped in, you would get flamed, well, you may be less likely to jump in than you would if it was your fiance that you agreed with. Actually, maybe you would be equally likely to jump in...you're gonna hate me saying this, but you're cute and feisty. ;D
eagle2
08-30-2009, 09:14 PM
Depends what you call success. A military victory is not necessarily a political advance. I was talking about staying out of wars, not winning them. Winning wars is up to the military, not politicians.
In almost all or all of the wars fought by the nations lead by these women, the aggressors were nations lead by men. Winning wars is up to the politicians who control the military.
Since you believe women are too emotional to make rational decisions, can you please provide some examples of these poor decisions female leaders have made because of their emotions. While there have been no female presidents of the US, there have been female leaders of other nations, as I mentioned before.
MissMynxx
08-30-2009, 11:42 PM
I actually did mean that generally people view things in the same light as their SO's. Like attracts like in nearly all cases. I am NOT trying to spin anything to seem like I meant something else. The guy I'm involved with and I have very similar world views, as I had with my husband and every serious bf before that. I don't know of ANY couples that don't see eye to eye on basic topics like this. Relationships are just too damn hard without having dramatically different world views. I'm betting you were much younger when you were with the person that had majorly different views, or that you disagreed on a few, but agreed on many (or there could be the overwhelming sexual attraction thing, but that usually doesn't negate vastly different views).
BTW - I have no interest in debating about your age either. It really is true that not only I but pretty much all my friends also were more aggressive about defending our independence in our early 20's. I'm sure it was due to it being questioned and challenged more often and I'm very sorry if that part of my post came across that way. Not my intent at all. I just meant that I also used to be a crusader that would have been pissed at any hint my opinion was influenced by anyone, but as I aged, I basically gave up, because I despise conflict. (I was trying to be nice, albeit clumsily.)
Also, I think you got at least as emotional in your post as I did, reading things into my post that just weren't there. I'm very blunt and unflinchingly honest...if you read back through my posts, you can see that in at least one past discussion when I got pissy and was called on it, I apologized and admitted that I was wrong, exagerated and was just being pissy. Hell, notice when I gave my soon to be ex's opinion on here, I fully disclosed what he said, knowing good and well that Hopper would jump on it.
I'm sorry if you disagree, but I really do believe that couples generally see eye to eye on most topics and that people are much more likely to defend their partner than someone they don't know. Say if you agreed with me in another thread, where you knew if you jumped in, you would get flamed, well, you may be less likely to jump in than you would if it was your fiance that you agreed with. Actually, maybe you would be equally likely to jump in...you're gonna hate me saying this, but you're cute and feisty. ;D
I disagree with most of what you just posted, it just doesn't apply to me. Especially your assertion that I was "much younger" when I was with the guy I disagreed heavily with, or that we only disagreed on a few key points. Both wrong, but I digress.
Also - just to point out - I never said I was unemotional or completely logical. I get VERY emotional when I debate. I will step up and admit that one. I have a hard time controlling my knee-jerk emotional reaction, and have a special place in my head reserved for letting my pragmatic side take over, rationalize, then come back with a more logical view and continue my conversation. I'll own it, I'm an emotional bitch. lol ;D
You are, however, completely correct that I would be equally likely to jump into a conversation whether or not my fiance's opinion is present. I am indeed a feisty one! }:D
I like you a lot, PJ, and have often said how much I respect you as a member of these boards. I'm sorry we both got a bit out of hand, and I hope we're able to agree to disagree and continue respecting and liking one another regardless of our "sides" on certain issues.
Almost Jaded
08-30-2009, 11:59 PM
Actually, maybe you would be equally likely to jump in...you're gonna hate me saying this, but you're cute and feisty.
You are, however, completely correct that I would be equally likely to jump into a conversation whether or not my fiance's opinion is present. I am indeed a feisty one!
MM didn't read into that the way I did, and it's REALLY not like her to miss a double entendre (Why can't I make spellcheck like that? No matter how I spell it it's wrong. Whatever.). So either she finally missed one, or I read that WAY wrong, lol.
And other than that, I'm for once just not at all in the mood to debate. So until next time...
princessjas
08-31-2009, 03:31 AM
I disagree with most of what you just posted, it just doesn't apply to me. Especially your assertion that I was "much younger" when I was with the guy I disagreed heavily with, or that we only disagreed on a few key points. Both wrong, but I digress.
Also - just to point out - I never said I was unemotional or completely logical. I get VERY emotional when I debate. I will step up and admit that one. I have a hard time controlling my knee-jerk emotional reaction, and have a special place in my head reserved for letting my pragmatic side take over, rationalize, then come back with a more logical view and continue my conversation. I'll own it, I'm an emotional bitch. lol ;D
You are, however, completely correct that I would be equally likely to jump into a conversation whether or not my fiance's opinion is present. I am indeed a feisty one! }:D
I like you a lot, PJ, and have often said how much I respect you as a member of these boards. I'm sorry we both got a bit out of hand, and I hope we're able to agree to disagree and continue respecting and liking one another regardless of our "sides" on certain issues.
I really am sorry if my opinions offended, but they are formed from our life experiences and ours have apparently been much different.
MM didn't read into that the way I did, and it's REALLY not like her to miss a double entendre (Why can't I make spellcheck like that? No matter how I spell it it's wrong. Whatever.). So either she finally missed one, or I read that WAY wrong, lol.
And other than that, I'm for once just not at all in the mood to debate. So until next time...
It was just me being a perv. No insult, if that's what you were thinking. (Perviness was probably inspired by a certain thread that turned into making a SW porno suggestions, remember that one?) ;)
I swear to God (if you believe in him, which I really don't but anyway, whole nother thread). I'm not the devil with all sortsa hidden meanings the participants of this thread seem to think I am. :) And, boy am I glad you aren't in the mood to debate any more, I actually HATE debating or arguing, so I'll be damn happy when this thread dies. ;D
Hopper
08-31-2009, 05:57 AM
Glad we managed to put that baby to bed.
...
I truly believe, having read this entire thread, that what Hopper and AJ are saying (and what Hopper was in fact saying from the beginning), that in certain situations, there is NOT anything wrong with having sexual relations with a girl (or boy, as the case may be) who is 16. If she knows, like I did, damn well and fine what she's in for and what's going in, there isn't anything wrong with it. Where it becomes wrong is when that girl can assert that she DOES NOT want it, and she is forced into it anyway. When a grown man begins the process of forcing the issue is when he becomes a "predator", IMO.
I don't actually think that older men having sex with 16-yo's in general is okay. All I ever meant to say was that it is not necessaily always wrong, as it would be with younger teens or children.
For the record, as I have already said, I am not attracted myself to 16-yo's. I like more mature women - 18 and over. So ther is no self-interest in my arguing here.
It honestly sounds like you didn't read the article that Hopper posted. It's fascinating, and could perhaps help shed some light on our (yes, OUR. I'm on Hopper's side here.) position on the matter. Neither of us, or AJ, are sexual predators, or condoning unwanted sexual contact with minors. We are, however, saying that in certain situations, the matter should be further explored and dealt with on a case-by-case basis. And boys, please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you could lend some credibility to your arguments if you'd TRY to look at it logically from the other POV.
...
I hope you know - assumed it would be obvious - that I do not support what the academics who are the subject of that article support - I am 100% opposed to it. I don't condone wanted or unwanted sex with minors.
Thanks for the vote of confidence though.
P.S. the comment up top was not meant to be a pun OR double entendre.
Hopper
08-31-2009, 05:58 AM
So grown men fucking 11 year olds is now totally cool.
fucking christ... I'm glad I don't have daughters.
Not at all cool with me.
vmurphy252
08-31-2009, 06:16 AM
Glad we managed to put that baby to bed.
I don't actually think that older men having sex with 16-yo's in general is okay. All I ever meant to say was that it is not necessaily always wrong, as it would be with younger teens or children.
For the record, as I have already said, I am not attracted myself to 16-yo's. I like more mature women - 18 and over. So ther is no self-interest in my arguing here.
I hope you know - thought it would be obvious - that I do not support what the academics who are the subject of that article support - I am 100% opposed to it. I don't condone wanted or unwanted sex with minors.
Thanks for the vote of confidence though.
P.S. the comment up top was not meant to be a pun OR double entendre.
Now if you and Jas can communicate this way, we shall have our Utopia... ;D
Hopper
08-31-2009, 06:31 AM
In almost all or all of the wars fought by the nations lead by these women, the aggressors were nations lead by men. Winning wars is up to the politicians who control the military.
Yes, men start wars too. Often politicians prevent their military from winning wars.
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1021097/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1021097/posts)
Since you believe women are too emotional to make rational decisions, can you please provide some examples of these poor decisions female leaders have made because of their emotions. While there have been no female presidents of the US, there have been female leaders of other nations, as I mentioned before.
Good queston and also a hard one. As I said earlier, both men and women abuse power. There is also the fact that any given hostorical female leader would not have ruled alone, without counsel, advisors, influential people, cabinet, lower house, voters etc. So it's a difficult thing for me to pinpoint an example.
Just to qualify, I do not think that women are too emotional to make rational decisions. That is not my exact point. I am saying that they allow their emotions to interfere with rational decisions in certain issues and tend not to be rational in those cases. But I am not saying that they can't be, or that there are not exceptions to what I mostly experience.
And - I am ready, as always, to be proven wrong. Which is what pj might have spent her time doing instead.
Hopper
08-31-2009, 06:32 AM
Now if you and Jas can communicate this way, we shall have our Utopia... ;D
I thought I was.
Hopper
08-31-2009, 07:20 AM
Hopper, it's just so nice and sporting of you (and logical might I add) to continue to rip into me after I stated I was done. Nope, I'm sure that isn't your anger and hatred (emotions) taking over at all.
I don't think you will ever be done.
Just to correct a few points you made against me. I didn't bring up the pedophile thing, go looksie, don't lie. I believe it was Elvia who mentioned it and then you kept harping on it.
Okay, Elvia did. But after that it seemed like you were persisting in misrepresenting what I had said.
Also, take another look at the pedophile thread. I didn't get upset at all until a bunch of men jumped on me all at once, one of whom I was very good friends with at the time. Yep, being attacked by a friend and destroying a friendship did cause a tiny bit of distress and I got a bit pissy. I believe that is a normal reaction to that situation that many men would also share.
I can't find the original thread that was in ,since it was shut down months back and I'd have to go through pages on the index to find it. I'm not responsible for what your friends say. I expect you don't want a sexual predator for a friend anyway. Or maybe it was your fault for taking such a rigid stand on the issue.
All I remember about the other thread is that you jumped on me.
It's also notable that of everyone here, the only people who have called my arguments unreasonable and emotional in this thread are the 2 men who oppose my political views, support sexism in the workplace (in other words, not allowing women in certain professions),...
No surprises there. Apparently it goes both ways.
...and believe it is "not wrong" to fuck 16-yr olds (which, pls be honest, WAS what you said to me in the past thread and in your PM's, I believe this "in certain situations" thing just arose after you realized you may have found a supporter in AJ if you qualified it a bit).
Again, I can't find or exactly remember that thread, but I know my own mind and I know what I said. Although I didn't take the time in that PM to qualify "not wrong", neither did I explicitly say "it's okay to screw 16-yo's under any circumstances".
Does it look to you like anything I post here is calculated to get support?
I also just looked up the PM in question, your assertion that I called you a pedophile is a blatant lie. Your PM was actually titled "Sexual predator?" not pedophile and you actually use the words "not wrong." I believe you also got emotional and commented on my "big white ass" in that thread, or was that Cyril, can't remember, but either way, you referenced it again in your PM...not exactly unemotional, making a rude comment about my ass avi, eh?
I recall you said "pedophile" in your post, but predator will do. The brief comment about your avi (which I didn't make in the thread) was in response to something you said about my credibility.
Also, Mods, is it not at least a pointable offense for him to bring up information that was sent via PM. I really don't care, if he is honest about the exchange (If not I will correct him, which I am sorry if that is out of line, but he is lying about what was said), but considering he didn't even ask me if it was okay before he shared a PM, well, I'm pretty certain that is against the rules. Right?
You didn't say anything in your PM that you hadn't already said for everyone else to read in your post prior to it.
Keep trying to get me booted, if that's the only way you can save face. Like I care about being at this forum enough to kiss your ass.
xdamage
08-31-2009, 07:31 AM
Good queston and also a hard one. As I said earlier, both men and women abuse power. There is also the fact that any given hostorical female leader would not have ruled alone, without counsel, advisors, influential people, cabinet, lower house, voters etc. So it's a difficult thing for me to pinpoint an example.
Just to qualify, I do not think that women are too emotional to make rational decisions. That is not my exact point. I am saying that they allow their emotions to interfere with rational decisions in certain issues and tend not to be rational in those cases. But I am not saying that they can't be, or that there are not exceptions to what I mostly experience.
And - I am ready, as always, to be proven wrong.
This comes across as a more moderate position than the initial statement appeared to be, and to which I reacted.
And I actually really believed this is/was your view all along (or I hope it was), just... hmm it is like AJ pointed out though sometimes you are your own worst enemy when it comes to the delivery (like you do seemingly go for shock value first) ;) People can/will still disagree with this stance, as there is still a question of is this a stereotype, or relevant statistical truth, but delivered in this way it also has less "shock" value and less likely to provoke an emotional response.
princessjas
08-31-2009, 08:04 AM
I don't think you will ever be done.
Okay, Elvia did. But after that it seemed like you were persisting in misrepresenting what I had said.
I can't find the original thread that was in ,since it was shut down months back and I'd have to go through pages on the index to find it. I'm not responsible for what your friends say. I expect you don't want a sexual predator for a friend anyway. Or maybe it was your fault for taking such a rigid stand on the issue.
All I remember about the other thread is that you jumped on me.
No surprises there. Apparently it goes both ways.
Again, I can't find or exactly remember that thread, but I know my own mind and I know what I said. Although I didn't take the time in that PM to qualify "not wrong", neither did I explicitly say "it's okay to screw 16-yo's under any circumstances".
Does it look to you like anything I post here is calculated to get support?
I recall you said "pedophile" in your post, but predator will do. The brief comment about your avi (which I didn't make in the thread) was in response to something you said about my credibility.
You didn't say anything in your PM that you hadn't already said for everyone else to read in your post prior to it.
Keep trying to get me booted, if that's the only way you can save face. Like I care about being at this forum enough to kiss your ass.
At this point, it really is just ridiculous hate-filled drivel you are spewing. I just went back through that thread and, as I thought, I wasn't the one that started the pedophile thing, verf was. You jumped on me over me telling Cyril that it wasn't nice to call Avery ugly. Cyril apologized and me and him had made nice, when you laid into me over that first, then when I repeatedly pointed out that there was no issue between Cyril and I, you started in on a statement I had made to someone else (Earl I believe) several pages back.
Yep, I eventually got pissed-off, but I WAS NOT one of the women who started the piss-fest and don't really get why I was the one that took all the flack from you and several of the other guys. It was like you guys got pissed at several girls and then there I was, so anything I said got flamed into oblivion...sorta like this thread.
(I haven't finished reading back over the thread, I get to around page 10 and then SW won't allow me too looksie at the rest, but I'm going to check to see exactly what I said on the pedophile issue. The only thing I've seen so far is stating that it disturbed me when men started "splitting hairs" to justify another man sleeping with an underage girl...and it wasn't in response to your post, I quoted the person I was responding to, but of course, you were the one that jumped all over me.)
I have no clue what your problem is with me, nor do I care, but yes, due to your constant insults I will do everything I can to get you booted. If you ever just laid off, I wouldn't waste my time. I think you repeatedly bringing up a long dead thread in order to villanize me screams that you are never going to just leave me the hell alone. Yep I may have called you a sexist jackass, but well, most women would for saying that women shouldn't be allowed in some professions (I said most, not all MM, so don't lay into me for that one please :)).
ETA - Hopper, I have no issue with you repeating what I actually said in response to your PM (which I thought was very rude). I DO have an issue with you lying or exaggerating the issue in order to make my response look much different than it was. Toning down your words while greatly exaggerating the aggressiveness of my response is well, just not fair and is a blatant attempt to get others to side with you and condemn me.
princessjas
08-31-2009, 08:41 AM
Here is the link to the entire thread. I really encourage everyone to go back and read it in it's entirety.
http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthread.php?t=132690&highlight=pedophile
I'm no angel in it, but neither is Hopper.
Elvia
08-31-2009, 02:49 PM
I just went over my posts in that thread, and I can't find any post in which I called Hopper a pedophile. In fact, I could be wrong since I didn't read every post fully, but don't think anyone did.
That's not to say I don't still find it disgusting when adults entertain sexual thoughts about children (and yes, I consider 16 year olds to be children). I certainly wouldn't consider it appropriate or healthy for me to be fantasizing about 16 year old boys, and I'd be pretty concerned if I started having such thoughts. So I do find it questionable when people basically say "I'm not sick enough to actually have sex with children, I just fantasize about it." It's still disturbing.
princessjas
08-31-2009, 03:28 PM
I just went over my posts in that thread, and I can't find any post in which I called Hopper a pedophile. In fact, I could be wrong since I didn't read every post fully, but don't think anyone did.
That's not to say I don't still find it disgusting when adults entertain sexual thoughts about children (and yes, I consider 16 year olds to be children). I certainly wouldn't consider it appropriate or healthy for me to be fantasizing about 16 year old boys, and I'd be pretty concerned if I started having such thoughts. So I do find it questionable when people basically say "I'm not sick enough to actually have sex with children, I just fantasize about it." It's still disturbing.
Yeah, I went back over my posts and I couldn't find where I said it either. :shrug:
Hopper
09-01-2009, 12:17 AM
I just went over my posts in that thread, and I can't find any post in which I called Hopper a pedophile. In fact, I could be wrong since I didn't read every post fully, but don't think anyone did.
We were saying that you brought the issue into this thread, not that you started it in the other thread or called me a pedophile in any thread. Here is what you said:
You disgust me. Even more so than when you were defending grown men fucking high school girls.
That's not to say I don't still find it disgusting when adults entertain sexual thoughts about children (and yes, I consider 16 year olds to be children). I certainly wouldn't consider it appropriate or healthy for me to be fantasizing about 16 year old boys, and I'd be pretty concerned if I started having such thoughts. So I do find it questionable when people basically say "I'm not sick enough to actually have sex with children, I just fantasize about it." It's still disturbing.
I don't fantasize about it, I was just discussing whether 16-yo's should be strictly considered children, or whether they all should be.
Hopper
09-01-2009, 01:15 AM
At this point, it really is just ridiculous hate-filled drivel you are spewing. I just went back through that thread and, as I thought, I wasn't the one that started the pedophile thing, verf was. You jumped on me over me telling Cyril that it wasn't nice to call Avery ugly. Cyril apologized and me and him had made nice, when you laid into me over that first, then when I repeatedly pointed out that there was no issue between Cyril and I, you started in on a statement I had made to someone else (Earl I believe) several pages back.
Yep, I eventually got pissed-off, but I WAS NOT one of the women who started the piss-fest and don't really get why I was the one that took all the flack from you and several of the other guys. It was like you guys got pissed at several girls and then there I was, so anything I said got flamed into oblivion...sorta like this thread.
(I haven't finished reading back over the thread, I get to around page 10 and then SW won't allow me too looksie at the rest, but I'm going to check to see exactly what I said on the pedophile issue. The only thing I've seen so far is stating that it disturbed me when men started "splitting hairs" to justify another man sleeping with an underage girl...and it wasn't in response to your post, I quoted the person I was responding to, but of course, you were the one that jumped all over me.)
I have no clue what your problem is with me, nor do I care, but yes, due to your constant insults I will do everything I can to get you booted. If you ever just laid off, I wouldn't waste my time. I think you repeatedly bringing up a long dead thread in order to villanize me screams that you are never going to just leave me the hell alone. Yep I may have called you a sexist jackass, but well, most women would for saying that women shouldn't be allowed in some professions (I said most, not all MM, so don't lay into me for that one please :)).
ETA - Hopper, I have no issue with you repeating what I actually said in response to your PM (which I thought was very rude). I DO have an issue with you lying or exaggerating the issue in order to make my response look much different than it was. Toning down your words while greatly exaggerating the aggressiveness of my response is well, just not fair and is a blatant attempt to get others to side with you and condemn me.
Here is what I found in that other thread, with no exaggerations:
You started the slagging by calling me "stupid" for questionning the 16-yo issue.
Then when I was sticking up for Cyril over that stupid issue with the pic of Avery, you made some comment about my comprehension skills.
Then in response to a post I made in response to JayATee you call me an "asshat".
Up to this point, I have not insulted you or anyone else in the thread, and you have insulted me three times, and a few other dancers have had a go at me too.
Then you start bowing out of the thread calling us disgusting perverts and predators, lowest humans you ever interacted with etc just for what we were saying. Then you backed up a bit trying to excuse what you said with your temper, but without apologising. Actually, you turned it around on us for not being understanding. Then you tried to rationalise why you equate our discussion with pedophilia instead of admitting you had been unfair.
At that point, I called you a troll, which by definition is what you were being.
Then you told us you were reporting our discussion of 16-yo's and asking for us to be booted. You accused me of being "pissy". You characterised the manner of your posts as "intellectual". You called me "scum".
You persisted in msirepresenting my position as being "it's okay to fuck 16-yo's", which technically it was not. All I said was "I don't think it is wrong". That does not mean I think it is right. All it means is I don't have an opinion and would rather leave it up to the individuals involved, the girl's parents and the police. Not that you asked.
It looks like the post I responded to you by PM over has been deleted by the mods - can't get past page 12.
So Hopper - 0, princessjas - lots.
I wouldn't call merely responding to you posts "jumping all over you". All I did was pull you up for nastiness, and even then I waited a long time. Yes, I would like others to go and read through that thread too.
The only rude part of my PM was the last sentence when I made a crack about you avitar, but that was in reponse to something you said about me in your last post.
As for the pedophile issue, you said this in response to Earl's objection to verf's use of the word "peophile" in regard to the 16-yo issue:
"This is one thing that always terrifies me. Men who have to defend their urges to sleep with insanely young teenagers. Splitting hairs and pointing out legalities and definitions just seems like a smokescreen used to blur some very horrifying character flaws, either in you or others of your gender."
And Elvia "thanked" you. So you didn't call anyone a pedophile, but you objected to us objecting being called pedophiles. Sorry if we got confused.
princessjas
09-01-2009, 03:45 AM
Don't lie! I called you an asshat because YOU had been rude REPEATEDLY and attacked the dancers. I had at that point added post after post of logical debate as to WHY I didn't think it was "instinctual" for men to be attracted to women of that age moreso than women in their late teens early 20's.
I agree wtih X, you are taking a MUCH more moderate stance than you did ealier. Oh, and I have NO CLUE what you are talking about posts being removed by the mods....I don't recall any of mine being removed, but I believe you and maybe Cyril had some removed because of your attacks. I know for sure, that one of you commented on my "big white ass" in my avi and the other thanked the post and THAT was removed.
"This is one thing that always terrifies me. Men who have to defend their urges to sleep with insanely young teenagers. Splitting hairs and pointing out legalities and definitions just seems like a smokescreen used to blur some very horrifying character flaws, either in you or others of your gender."
Really, this is what caused you to flame me into oblivion? The rest was just me defending myself after...how many guys jumped on me? One of them even later admitted it had been a bit of a bash PJ fest. Seriously, what is so bad about me calling someone on attempting to justify sex with a minor? :-\
BTW - Here is a copy of the post where I called you an asshat... Keep in mind, I wasn't the one that originally called you an asshat and only responded and defended the other girls that you had already been rude to and called trolls several times. I think it's clear I was simply sick of the damn trolls being rude as hell to the dancers on this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
The alternative you are giving me to "looking like an asshat" is being a doormat, and I don't think I do look like an asshat, so the choice is easy.
Yes, you do look like an asshat!! Oh, and the alternative is not being a doormat, it is being a nice respectful member of this community. Since you obviously don't respect strippers (or you would control yourself a bit better) I guess that is too much to ask.
If you weren't a jerk behaving like an asshat you would not have posted the following offensive statements. Consider your audience before posting please!! These statements ARE offensive to strippers (whom this board was designed to support). Regardless of your opinion on if they should be or not, if they are truth or not, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
Many men would not like to be caught dating a stripper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
The civilian life comment doesn't sound necessarily offensive. The lapdancing comment just sounds like the sort of opinion that isoften expressed here when discussing such a topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
I thnk people need to stop so easily taking offense and just express their displeasure more calmly, since there are no hard rules or knowledge about what is offensive, malicious. acceptable humour etc.
Hopper
09-01-2009, 06:12 AM
Don't lie! I called you an asshat because YOU had been rude REPEATEDLY and attacked the dancers. I had at that point added post after post of logical debate as to WHY I didn't think it was "instinctual" for men to be attracted to women of that age moreso than women in their late teens early 20's.
That was between me and JayATee and one or two other dancers. They were the ones being rude and she turned it back on me when I calmly responded. Quote us some examples of where I attacked dancers in that thread if you can. I don't remember you debating at all, only taunting us with charges of predator, scum, etc. I never myself claimed it is instinctual for men to be attracted to 16-yo's.
I agree wtih X, you are taking a MUCH more moderate stance than you did ealier.
Should I be like those conservatives you can't stand, who never acknowledge other people's posts or change their minds? Maybe you'd enjoy having someone more closed-minded than yourself around.
Really I am just clarifying my position for you entrenched liberals who filter everything everyone else says through their rigid ideology.
Oh, and I have NO CLUE what you are talking about posts being removed by the mods....I don't recall any of mine being removed, but I believe you and maybe Cyril had some removed because of your attacks. I know for sure, that one of you commented on my "big white ass" in my avi and the other thanked the post and THAT was removed.
My mistake - the post I referred to was the second-last one on the last page. I made that comment in my PM to you. Here it is:
If you think it might give me more credibility here, I'll post an avi of my own ass.
It was in response to this comment by you in that post:
Also, to further defend myself on the troll accusation. I am obviously a girl and a retired dancer, I have a pic in my avi and have several long-standing members that can vouch for me. Check my past posts. Most are supportive and encouraging to the dancers on this forum, many have useful information.
It was just a slightly exasperated, deserved, parting wisecrack. I didn't say it in a post for everyone to read. The point was a rear shot with your head cropped doesn't give you any credibility. For all I know it might not even be you.
If I said anything about your ass in the thread after that you still got off lightly considering what you said about me.
"This is one thing that always terrifies me. Men who have to defend their urges to sleep with insanely young teenagers. Splitting hairs and pointing out legalities and definitions just seems like a smokescreen used to blur some very horrifying character flaws, either in you or others of your gender."
Really, this is what caused you to flame me into oblivion?
I only quoted that to show where the pedophile insinuations started (or looked like it). I didn't flame up until I PMed you right toward the end of the thread. Until then I was calm and didn't hurl one insult at you.
The rest was just me defending myself after...how many guys jumped on me? One of them even later admitted it had been a bit of a bash PJ fest. Seriously, what is so bad about me calling someone on attempting to justify sex with a minor? :-\
Not defending yourself, offending us. We weren't trying to justify sex with minors. You are imposing your opinion on us. That is what the whole conflict was about. I didn't bash you and I don't recall others bashing you, but it's what you deserve for the baseless accusations you were making. You brought it on yourself by persistently misrepresenting what we were saying. You are still doing it now, and you should stop.
BTW - Here is a copy of the post where I called you an asshat... Keep in mind, I wasn't the one that originally called you an asshat and only responded and defended the other girls that you had already been rude to and called trolls several times. I think it's clear I was simply sick of the damn trolls being rude as hell to the dancers on this site.
You could have let JayATee and I sort that out between ourselves, but since you chose to take sides, then you should cop any flak you get from it. Not that I supplied any. I wasn't once rude to any of the dancers in that thread. I called them trolls because by definition that is what they were being, and they had already accused me and some others or being trolls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
The alternative you are giving me to "looking like an asshat" is being a doormat, and I don't think I do look like an asshat, so the choice is easy.
Yes, you do look like an asshat!! Oh, and the alternative is not being a doormat, it is being a nice respectful member of this community. Since you obviously don't respect strippers (or you would control yourself a bit better) I guess that is too much to ask.
I was being nice and respectful even after they were rude to me. I just called them trolls, because they were trolling, or at least they accused me of being a troll for less reason.
If you weren't a jerk behaving like an asshat you would not have posted the following offensive statements. Consider your audience before posting please!! These statements ARE offensive to strippers (whom this board was designed to support). Regardless of your opinion on if they should be or not, if they are truth or not, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
Many men would not like to be caught dating a stripper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
The civilian life comment doesn't sound necessarily offensive. The lapdancing comment just sounds like the sort of opinion that isoften expressed here when discussing such a topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
I thnk people need to stop so easily taking offense and just express their displeasure more calmly, since there are no hard rules or knowledge about what is offensive, malicious. acceptable humour etc.
Point being I don't necessarily know what is and isn't respectful on this site. Just so people know, I was not defending comments I made in that quote above, we were talking about things someone else had said. You could go easier on someone over an honest mistake. They don't make me an "asshat", nor were they anything to do with what JayATee called me an "asshat" over. You brought them up yourself.
And really, how many guys would tell everyone that their girlfriend is a stripper? Why is it offensive to point out that simple obvious fact of the industry here? It's just acknowledging the social taboo. It's not even a universal taboo, since it's become more socially accepted now, trendy even. The taboo even lends strippers mystique, so in a way it's even flattering. But now that I know, I'll observe etiquette.
princessjas
09-01-2009, 07:52 AM
"Instinctually though, guys should be more attracted to women at their most fertile... which is actually early to mid 20's. Mid-teens girls can get pregnant fairly easy, but have more difficulty carrying a healthy baby to term, making them less fertile. 21ish to 24-25 I believe is the prime reproductive age."
" I also believe that our intellect overrides our instincts barring extreme cases of survival. This is why most men are not attracted to teenage girls, they see them as the children their intellect tells them they are. I also notice that while men tend to argue instinct for things they want, there are notable lacks of instinctual behavoir. For example, it is socially and morally wrong to kill the offspring of other males, although it is instinctual to do so, but you don't see any men arguing that infanticide is just instincual and they can't help it. Looking purely at our instincts, what makes this any different? Both are about the continuation of the males genetic line. Protectiveness of your mate and children is another instinctual behavoir that the intellect of modern men seems to be able to overide, while many of these same men are arguing "they can't help it" in regards to fucking young girls, they don't seem to be stricken by this instinctual behavoir that helps continue their linage.
Also an interesting point to note: Even in certain tribes in Africa, where lifespan is significantly shorter than in western cultures, mid-teens girls generally cannot carry a child to term. They are even less developed than us, and are therefore LESS fertile, even with their shorter lifespans. (I'm not speculating on how this affects instinctual behavoir, but it is interesting to consider, no?)
*Forgive me if this is rambling, and if any parts need clarification, I'll work on it later. I didn't get any sleep last night and am currently trying to think with the TV blaring Nick Jr. haha*"
"Oopsie, got distracted and forgot to address this in my previous post. (See, sleepyhead haha)
This has been one thing that has confused many in the medical community for years. Recent studies show that men's fertility actually does decrease as they age. Very mildly compared to the decline of womens fertility of course.
The most notable issue is the degradation of healthy sperm. While they retain the ability to fertilize eggs, the DNA degradation causes genetic problems with offspring. As well as more debilitating genetic disorders, and some that cause spontaneous abortion of the fetus, I believe Autism and ADHD rates are through the roof when the father is over a certain age (can't recall, but I'm thinking 45-55ish, might be older though).
*Once again I'm being lazy and just writing from memory instead of looking up the ages and stats. BAD Jasmine! haha Anyone is welcome to poke around and find the actual data though.* "
It's very noticable that men defend this particular instinct and seem to think it is ok to express it, but have no urge to act on the others I mentioned. Actually, this instinct seems to be defended much more fervently than any other, when things like this are mentioned though, that part of the post is always ignored. Just some food for thought.
Are these not points I made in a civilized debate Hopper? I dunno, thought they were. :-\
And if you don't know what is offensive, instead of digging in your heels and being an ass about it, why not just say..."I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive girls." If you would have just apologized instead of being rude to everyone, there would have been no issue.
Notice I certainly don't have any issue admitting when I'm rude or have fucked-up. That is the main reason I got so frustrated and pissy. Even when I admitted I lost my temper and was rude (and majorly misstated one fact due to extreme lack of sleep) a couple of you guys kept digging at me and actually became even more rude. Instead of being a decent person and going, ah, yeah, we all got a bit out of control there, you kept acting as if you were completely perfect and weren't at all rude or impolite...which just isn't the truth.
Personally, I find it impossible to respect people that can't admit when they are wrong. Sorry, I know that is not a very nice thing to say, but it is very true. That is the one rude thing I said in that thread that I won't apologize for. :P
Almost Jaded
09-01-2009, 11:42 AM
PJ - re the quote I pulled from your response to MM - I absolutely took it as you being a perv, LOL - I was surprised that MM missed it, she's one to turn ANYTHING into a sexually charged discussion at ANY opportunity, lol. ESPECIALLY if it involves anything about threeways or kicking me out so she can get some pussy. :rolleyes:
Damn. I really need to get Hopper here with a camera to document a threesome with PJ, MM, and a hot 16 year old girl. Maybe that would fix everything.
Seriously though - can we stop the Hopper/PJ thing now? PLEASE? You both suck and are assholes and asshats and bitches and pricks and deeply disturbed fucked up individuals and you are both 100% to blame. Just like the rest of us. ;)
princessjas
09-01-2009, 12:19 PM
PJ - re the quote I pulled from your response to MM - I absolutely took it as you being a perv, LOL - I was surprised that MM missed it, she's one to turn ANYTHING into a sexually charged discussion at ANY opportunity, lol. ESPECIALLY if it involves anything about threeways or kicking me out so she can get some pussy. :rolleyes:
Damn. I really need to get Hopper here with a camera to document a threesome with PJ, MM, and a hot 16 year old girl. Maybe that would fix everything.
Seriously though - can we stop the Hopper/PJ thing now? PLEASE? You both suck and are assholes and asshats and bitches and pricks and deeply disturbed fucked up individuals and you are both 100% to blame. Just like the rest of us. ;)
:rotfl:
Ok, I'm done...this time I mean it too....Really. ;D
vmurphy252
09-01-2009, 12:27 PM
^We're gonna beat you if you respond to his next post....
Oh, wait, you would just like that...
Elvia
09-01-2009, 01:01 PM
This is ridiculous. Hopper puts down an entire gender and then goes on to complain about how unfair we've been towards him for pages and pages?
I stand by my statements. It's all still extremely disgusting.
Almost Jaded
09-01-2009, 03:30 PM
The bolded sentence in PJ's quoting my post applies to you too. So there.
hockeybobby
09-01-2009, 03:52 PM
Ok...I'm totally lost here. What's this thread all about again?
firemaiden04
09-01-2009, 04:12 PM
Ok...I'm totally lost here. What's this thread all about again?
Yeah...I think I'm going to leave this one alone.
Elvia
09-01-2009, 08:10 PM
Ok, on that note...I've been wondering. Why do people post on a thread about how they want nothing to do with the thread? Wouldn't that be better illustrated by just actually avoiding said thread?
Hopper
09-02-2009, 06:03 AM
Are these not points I made in a civilized debate Hopper? I dunno, thought they were. :-\
Civilised, but inconsistent. Why intellectually discuss an issue after you said we were "stupid" for needing an explaination for why it is in question at all, and later, predators just for discussing at all? You can see how I got confused.
And if you don't know what is offensive, instead of digging in your heels and being an ass about it, why not just say..."I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive girls." If you would have just apologized instead of being rude to everyone, there would have been no issue.
As I remember it, those offensive comments were brought up when people were accusing Cyril for being a troll in that thread over the Avery's pic thing. I was saying I didn't think his comments indicated he was a troll and then a couple of dancers brought in stuff he said in other threads, such as the ones you quoted here. They didn't seem offensive to me either so it appeared to me that those dancers were playing games of some sort.
Now, if someone had made those comments and a dancer had said "it's poor etiquette to say that here - dancers generally don't like it", then I probably would have said "okay". There would have been no confusion. But the actual context was not that straight-forward. When they quoted those comments they didn't say to me "dancers don't like those sort of comments here". Nor would I have assumed Cyril knew they would be offensive at the time he posted them.
Notice I certainly don't have any issue admitting when I'm rude or have fucked-up. That is the main reason I got so frustrated and pissy. Even when I admitted I lost my temper and was rude (and majorly misstated one fact due to extreme lack of sleep) a couple of you guys kept digging at me and actually became even more rude. Instead of being a decent person and going, ah, yeah, we all got a bit out of control there, you kept acting as if you were completely perfect and weren't at all rude or impolite...which just isn't the truth.
I can't find where you apologised for losing your temper, unless you mean the one where you call us the lowest form of humans. In that one it was more like excusing yourself than apologising. I also still don't see where I was rude. Quotes please.
Personally, I find it impossible to respect people that can't admit when they are wrong. Sorry, I know that is not a very nice thing to say, but it is very true. That is the one rude thing I said in that thread that I won't apologize for. :P
We still haven't agreed on which of us that is.
Hopper
09-02-2009, 06:06 AM
...
Damn. I really need to get Hopper here with a camera to document a threesome with PJ, MM, and a hot 16 year old girl. Maybe that would fix everything.
Maybe if you leave out pj and the 16-yo girl.
Seriously though - can we stop the Hopper/PJ thing now? PLEASE? You both suck and are assholes and asshats and bitches and pricks and deeply disturbed fucked up individuals and you are both 100% to blame. Just like the rest of us. ;)
What do you think I'm trying to do?
Hopper
09-02-2009, 06:11 AM
This is ridiculous. Hopper puts down an entire gender and then goes on to complain about how unfair we've been towards him for pages and pages?
I stand by my statements. It's all still extremely disgusting.
I never intended to put down women. If you think I did anyway, you're entitled to your opinion; but that doesn't nake it right for anyone to accuse me of things I didn't do. No need for confusion.
vmurphy252
09-02-2009, 07:24 AM
^Please, please, PLEASE, Elvia and Jas, do not respond to these 3 posts. If someone doesn't stop the back and forth then it will NEVER END.
See, I will show you. If he responds to this post, I will not post a response to that.
princessjas
09-02-2009, 08:05 AM
^Please, please, PLEASE, Elvia and Jas, do not respond to these 3 posts. If someone doesn't stop the back and forth then it will NEVER END.
See, I will show you. If he responds to this post, I will not post a response to that.
Everytime I think I'm out, they pull me back in! }:D
j/k hehe
When I said I was done I meant it. I feel the siren call, but my will is strong! :angel: