View Full Version : where is prositution legal??
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sexy_celeste
07-30-2009, 08:20 AM
Im all for legalisation and regulation of the sex industry.
Doing MASSAGE (With Hand relief) the girls have to present a medical check (in the state of Victoria) and have a PCA (licence) number to provide services (yes thats not 100% the case, but Im tired lol)
Asking for unprotected services is an offence, as is soliciting streetwalkers. (the client is prosecuted, not the girl)
Providing support, investment advice, and safe working environments is a fantastic idea. The industry (just like stripping) can provide a great way to work a few hours a week, and support your family/studies/travels etc.
And regulation/legalisation is important for that.
Prostitution is legal in the state of Victoria (there are legal brothels), but the other states are tricky, with unclear laws.
I actually work with a sex worker advocacy group as part of my regular job, PM me if youre interested :)
bumrubber
07-30-2009, 04:19 PM
That would be because they're just as hard on it as in the US, LMAO!
Their alcohol laws are more strictly enforced in general, which would explain the more controlled atmosphere in strip clubs.
But I do think prostitution being legal otherwise makes a difference.
There seem to be more girls working the regular bars and nightclubs, which would be illegal if they discuss the details in a public place. I've been "hit on" just about every time I've been out. This never happens in the US, except in hotel bars.
Mr Hyde
07-30-2009, 09:31 PM
Prostitution is illegal everywhere in USA. And, I am appalled that some counties in Nevada are exception to that. There should not be any prostitution any where. It is the worst form of exploitation of women.
Thanks Mr Morals. I thought the worst form of exploitation might have been rape or something but I guess a woman choosing to do what she wants with her own body is actually the worst.
Cyril
07-30-2009, 09:36 PM
Thanks Mr Morals. I thought the worst form of exploitation might have been rape or something but I guess a woman choosing to do what she wants with her own body is actually the worst.
Excuse me sir! Rape is not an exploitation. Rape is an assault.
(Shakes his head.)
Note: This is exhausting. I feel like I am fighting the battle of attrition here on the SW.
Mr Hyde
07-31-2009, 10:43 AM
Rape is not exploitation?
Wow...I am speechless.
You are the embodiment of hypocrisy, by the way. As others have said, you have drawn an arbitrary line in the sand and said "on this side, women are not being exploited (stripping), and on this side, they are (prostitution)."
Your arguments are ridiculous.
mediocrity
07-31-2009, 03:05 PM
Thanks Mr Morals. I thought the worst form of exploitation might have been rape or something but I guess a woman choosing to do what she wants with her own body is actually the worst.
You fucking rock sir.
verfolgung
07-31-2009, 03:10 PM
Excuse me sir! Rape is not an exploitation. Rape is an assault.
Note: This is exhausting. I feel like I am fighting the battle of attrition here on the SW.
Was the last time you opened a dictionary as long ago as the last time you went to a SC?
Geez, exploitation is the utlization of another person for a selfish purpose. Rape is the highest form of exploitation! >:(
BTW - If it's that exhausting feel free to take a walk!
mediocrity
07-31-2009, 03:13 PM
Excuse me sir! Rape is not an exploitation. Rape is an assault.
(Shakes his head.)
Note: This is exhausting. I feel like I am fighting the battle of attrition here on the SW.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J9lzpM1pDHM/Sb94PSSYeJI/AAAAAAAAAD8/LtB3H-tTKnM/s200/superman_pic1-1.jpg
yoda57us
07-31-2009, 10:52 PM
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." Joplin
Great song but it wasn't written by Janis Joplin.
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." - Kris Kristofferson
Earl_the_Pearl
07-31-2009, 11:50 PM
Great song but it wasn't written by Janis Joplin.
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." - Kris Kristofferson
Fred Luther Foster is also listed as the writer along with Kristofferson.
Cyril
08-01-2009, 12:08 AM
Was the last time you opened a dictionary as long ago as the last time you went to a SC?
Geez, exploitation is the utlization of another person for a selfish purpose. Rape is the highest form of exploitation! >:(
BTW - If it's that exhausting feel free to take a walk!
And you need to start spending little less time in the strip clubs; some of them have bad ventilation system and you know what lack of Oxygen can do to your brain?
Confusion between exploitation and assault is direct result of a malfunctioning brain.
verfolgung
08-01-2009, 12:30 AM
... Confusion between exploitation and assault is direct result of a malfunctioning brain.
Are you really that dense to think something as traumatic as rape is not both expolitation AND assault? No, you have to try to define it as only assault just because you want to believe that "prostitution is the worst form of exploitation" - this is the height of shallow ignorance.
Like the rest of arguments and posts you spew on here - you're pathetic!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETA ... To further demonstrate the connection between "exploitation" and "rape" here some aricles:
"Sexual Exploitation - Rape, Child Sexual Abuse, and Workplace Harassment"
http://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=95744
"Welcome to the Rape Camp: Sexual Exploitation and the Internet in Cambodia"
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/rapecamp.htm
Cyril
08-01-2009, 12:40 AM
Are you really that dense to think something as traumatic as rape is not both expolitation AND assault? No, you have to try to define it as only assault just because you want to believe that "prostitution is the worst form of exploitation" - this is the height of shallow ignorance.
Like the rest of arguments and posts you spew on here - you're pathetic!
As I said, take it easy on hitting the strip clubs. It is clearly not doing you any good. Why not try mountain climbing? It will improve the over all condition of your health and can be good for your brain. And who knows you might start thinking that there is more to you than being a doormat. :)
verfolgung
08-01-2009, 01:00 AM
^^^ Obviously you can't make a sound and vaild argument in support of your ridiculous contention.
Hopper
08-01-2009, 01:09 AM
Time to get techinical I'm afraid.
The argument here over exploitation is pointless, since exploitation merely means to make use of something. We all exploit each day, e.g. exploit resources. It does not necessarily have negative connotations. It is only negative if it has wrong consequences of some kind.
So it is true that customers are exploiting strippers, but okay (as far as either party is concerned) because the customer is paying. Prostitution is exploitation, but whether or not it is okay depends on whether the woman truly benefits and whether she is forced by circumstances into doing it.
Rape is exploitation of the negative kind, since it is forced use of a woman's body for sex. But what makes it evil is not just the use (exploitaition), but the fact that the use is forced (assault). So the bad thing abut rape is that it is assault. The exploitation is not the bad part, since women normally consent to that same use of their body to sexual partners. In the first case it is negative use, in the second it is positive, and it depends on the circumstances, not the nature of the act itself.
Socialists and feminists have given "exploit" a negative meaning because of their underlying claims that workers are not fairly recompensed by employers in teh capitalist system and that the relations of men to women in our society is unjust to women.
I would say that the bad thing about prostitution is not that the woman is being exploited (actually she is exploiting the sex dirives of her customers for money), but the moral, social and psychological consequences of prostitution.
Cyril
08-01-2009, 01:15 AM
^^^ Obviously you can't make a sound and vaild argument in support of your ridiculous contention.
They are two different issues. One is rape and one is exploitation.
What sound argument have you given other than name calling?
I have zero expectation of hearing anything remotely intelligent from you.
Cyril
08-01-2009, 01:17 AM
Time to get techinical I'm afraid.
The argument here over exploitation is pointless, since exploitation merely means to make use of something. We all exploit each day, e.g. exploit resources. It does not necessarily have negative connotations. It is only negative if it has wrong consequences of some kind.
So it is true that customers are exploiting strippers, but okay (as far as either party is concerned) because the customer is paying. Prostitution is exploitation, but whether or not it is okay depends on whether the woman truly benefits and whether she is forced by circumstances into doing it.
Rape is exploitation of the negative kind, since it is forced use of a woman's body for sex. But what makes it evil is not just the use (exploitaition), but the fact that the use is forced (assault). So the bad thing abut rape is that it is assault. The exploitation is not the bad part, since women normally consent to that same use of their body to sexual partners. In the first case it is negative use, in the second it is positive, and it depends on the circumstances, not the nature of the act itself.
Socialists and feminists have given "exploit" a negative meaning because of their underlying claims that workers are not fairly recompensed by employers in teh capitalist system and that the relations of men to women in our society is unjust to women.
Thank you for knocking some sense in here!
Hopper
08-01-2009, 01:22 AM
^Sense can knock all it likes here - many people don't want to answer.
Hopper
08-01-2009, 01:26 AM
...
This is exhausting. I feel like I am fighting the battle of attrition here on the SW.
Remember where you are. Not all strippers and customers can be guaranteed to be of sound mind. There are people here (as on other forum sites) who I will not bother to get into arguments with. Some people argue just to hang shit on others.
Cyril
08-01-2009, 01:26 AM
^Sense can knock all it likes here - many people don't want to answer.
Anyway, I am glad to see you. It is always nice to see rational people. I had a long day today so I am going to hit the hay. You have a good night!
verfolgung
08-01-2009, 02:07 AM
They are two different issues. One is rape and one is exploitation.
What sound argument have you given other than name calling?
I have zero expectation of hearing anything remotely intelligent from you.
Cyril, are you blind or just that dense? Look above and you will find a definition of "exploitation" and you will find articles linking exploitation and rape. They are NOT mutually exclusive. To say they are two different issues is ignorant - even worse when its because it happens to be in conflict with your poorly thought out statement on prostitution.
I happen to disagree with Hopper and his contention that when it comes to rape "exploitation is not the bad part". Exploitation in many cases is the root cause leading to the assult. Without the selfish intent to use someone else, in this case their body, for one's own gratification there would not be an assault. While other cases may not have as high a level of exploitation, in the case of rape the level of exploitation is one of the highest.
This exploitation, the selfish taking*, not only leads to the assualt, but it is also what causes such traumatic effects for the victim afterwards. The feeling of being exploited in the worst possible way is a significant part of what the victim carries forward.
------------------------------------------------
*There are several definitions of exploitation. While one definition is simply the use/utilization of something esp for profit, another definition is the untilization of a group or person for selfish purposes.
ETA: Cyril, one cannot claim that exploitation is void of negative connotations in the case of rape, while using it in a negative sense when railing against prostitution.
Hopper
08-01-2009, 02:56 AM
^I'll put it this way: In the case of rape, the forced exploitation is the assualt, or the assault is in the forced exploitation.You don't need to say it is both assault and exploitation, because the actual forced exploitation is the assault. To say that the woman feels assaulted and wrongfully exploited is one and the same thing. The rapist doesn't necessarily hit the woman, the assault is in the mere forcing of the act of sex.
When I said that the esploitation isn't the bad part I meant that what makes the exploitation wrong is that it is forced. If it were cosented, it would be the same type of exploitation, but a proper one.
lmiller22134
08-01-2009, 03:15 AM
As I said, take it easy on hitting the strip clubs. It is clearly not doing you any good. Why not try mountain climbing? It will improve the over all condition of your health and can be good for your brain. And who knows you might start thinking that there is more to you than being a doormat. :)
Because mountain climbing is dangerous! What if you are climbing and you lose grip and you split your head open. that can't be good for your brain either!
Otoki
08-01-2009, 04:35 AM
Seriously, people. Stop responding to Cyril. He's dense, stubborn, and a troll, intentional or not. Arguing with him is fruitless, and simply clogs my screen with lots of "ignored post"s.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-01-2009, 08:48 AM
The rapist doesn't necessarily hit the woman, the assault is in the mere forcing of the act of sex.
"Assault and battery is the combination of two violent crimes: (the threat of violence) and (physical violence). This legal distinction exists only in jurisdictions that distinguish assault as threatened violence rather than actual violence."
Cyril
08-01-2009, 10:01 AM
Cyril, are you blind or just that dense? Look above and you will find a definition of "exploitation" and you will find articles linking exploitation and rape. They are NOT mutually exclusive. To say they are two different issues is ignorant - even worse when its because it happens to be in conflict with your poorly thought out statement on prostitution.
I happen to disagree with Hopper and his contention that when it comes to rape "exploitation is not the bad part". Exploitation in many cases is the root cause leading to the assult. Without the selfish intent to use someone else, in this case their body, for one's own gratification there would not be an assault. While other cases may not have as high a level of exploitation, in the case of rape the level of exploitation is one of the highest.
This exploitation, the selfish taking*, not only leads to the assualt, but it is also what causes such traumatic effects for the victim afterwards. The feeling of being exploited in the worst possible way is a significant part of what the victim carries forward.
------------------------------------------------
*There are several definitions of exploitation. While one definition is simply the use/utilization of something esp for profit, another definition is the untilization of a group or person for selfish purposes.
ETA: Cyril, one cannot claim that exploitation is void of negative connotations in the case of rape, while using it in a negative sense when railing against prostitution.
Posting links is not equivalent to making sound argument. Sometimes you need to back certain factual citation with links that is understandable. But posted links do not substitute for making sound arguments. You have not made sound argument what so ever.
But the point is no amount of posted links will convince anyone with reasonable belief system that rape and exploitation (within the context we are discussing) are the same. Rape is assault and battery (I am including both because there is a legal distinction between assault and battery as pointed out by Earl), which involves attacking the victim.
We are talking about a type of exploitation where no one is using the physical violence. When you engage in prostitution you are exploiting the other person's circumstances, which led her to sell her body. You are not physically attacking her. When you commit rape, you attack her physically. There is a big difference.
Now, sometimes exploitation can be a forced one especially when referring to a political situation or even in case of forced repeated sex with someone but that is a different scenario. We are not talking about neither of those.
So, why purposely muddy the water and call others dense?
xdamage
08-01-2009, 11:25 AM
...When you engage in prostitution you are exploiting the other person's circumstances, which led her to sell her body. ...
Again you're unable to see an important point. It is not entirely your fault because our society teaches it, as do others, but all of us sell various parts of our bodies. I sell parts of my brain, my legs, my arms, my torso to an employer who pays for the use of them for a certain # of hours per day. My circumstances require it of me as I am not independently wealthy, so I make this trade.
You've simply assigned special meaning to the part of the body called the groin. That is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. For various reasons there are reasons why cultures promote a trade whereby you have exclusive access to that part of a woman's body in exchange for something - but you can be absolutely sure it is something. And the bad news is chances are what you offer is not really all that unique. She could trade that part of her body to someone else who could offer similar or better even. But for whatever reasons, you're spouse and you have arranged some form of trade and in that trade part of what you traded for is exclusive access to her groin.
The problem you are having is accepting that some women might look at all of their options in life, and see hm... if they don't trade it exclusively to one other person, they could trade it to many others for other trade-able items (money, things, fame, whatever)... You are absolutely certain no woman would choose this because the thought of it strikes a chord in you that you are not able to face, but that really is a limitation of yourself, not an absolute truth.
I do worry about force; such as forced prostitute, and the matter of human trafficking for this purpose, but as hard as it is for you to accept, not all prostitutes are forced by their circumstances any more then I am forced to work and have been since my teenage years. It's just that they choose a trade that will pay better then other options at that point in their life. Later in life they may choose differently, but it is choices being made, choices they make as adults.
Cyril
08-01-2009, 03:29 PM
You've simply assigned special meaning to the part of the body called the groin.
Humans have been around for thousands of years on this planet. If groin were not that special then by now we would have come to that realization.
We collectively have gauged the implication of prostitution on the society and realized that this is something demeaning to women and therefore should be abolished. But unfortunately we always had a segment among ourselves that wanted to indulge in prostitution; as a result the effort to abolish it never completely succeeded. Similarly prostitution will never be accepted by the society as a normal trade because thousands of years or historical experience tells us that it is not a normal trade.
Stigmata on the face of prostitution has not changed a bit throughout human voyage on this planet. Does not it tell you something?
Cyril
08-01-2009, 03:34 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J9lzpM1pDHM/Sb94PSSYeJI/AAAAAAAAAD8/LtB3H-tTKnM/s200/superman_pic1-1.jpg
I thought I was the "Lieutenant Save the Ho". I did not realize I got promoted. Thanks for the good news!
xdamage
08-01-2009, 04:03 PM
Humans have been around for thousands of years on this planet. If groin were not that special then by now we would have come to that realization.
We collectively have gauged the implication of prostitution on the society and realized that this is something demeaning to women and therefore should be abolished. But unfortunately we always had a segment among ourselves that wanted to indulge in prostitution; as a result the effort to abolish it never completely succeeded. Similarly prostitution will never be accepted by the society as a normal trade because thousands of years or historical experience tells us that it is not a normal trade.
Stigmata on the face of prostitution has not changed a bit throughout human voyage on this planet. Does not it tell you something?
Oh sex is special because it leads to children, which is a 16+ year investment to care for, so in societies without Birth Control and DNA testing sex is costly. But you're discounting an often over looked detail. The splitting of the sexes has resulted in human males who are on average, physically stronger then the females. The stronger males tend to use that strength not only to protect from intruders, but also to control the females. On rare occasion, societies like ours can, if all things align, agree that might does not make right. When we limit males abilities to force their wants on the physically weaker females (aka exploit them) we find that many have their own ideas about what is right/fair, about what they should be able to do with their own bodies.
And guess what, it's not for Cyril to decide. If you don't believe in it, don't want it, the don't engage in it. I personally don't, but it is possible to NOT without projecting what you want on to some type of universal human truth. You're not a female. You simple don't have a female body so frankly your opinion is already very skewed from the PoV of a male. But even males have ears and brains. You can try listening rather then talking. You might find what you think you know about women is colored from a male perspective.
Hopper
08-01-2009, 06:51 PM
"Assault and battery is the combination of two violent crimes: assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault) (the threat of violence) and battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_%28crime%29) (physical violence). This legal distinction exists only in jurisdictions that distinguish assault as threatened violence rather than actual violence."
Okay, thanks. But I would call rape (forced sex) violence, even though it is not hitting. I don't know what the law defines violence as, but battery would seem not to be the same thing as forced sex.
verfolgung
08-01-2009, 06:59 PM
Seriously, people. Stop responding to Cyril. He's dense, stubborn, and a troll, intentional or not. Arguing with him is fruitless, and simply clogs my screen with lots of "ignored post"s.
Agreed. ... :-X
Earl_the_Pearl
08-01-2009, 07:00 PM
Okay, thanks. But I would call rape (forced sex) violence, even though it is not hitting. I don't know what the law defines violence as, but battery would seem not to be the same thing as forced sex.
I was taught that assault is a credible threat of violence even if no violence occurs; the popular term is now terroristic threat. While battery is actually violence with touching, it is a legal definition in some states. New Jersey used to use assault but now uses the more dramatic terroristic threat. I have heard the term sexual battery for actual touching and sexual assault for the threat of sexual battery. It depends on how the state statutes are written.
Hopper
08-01-2009, 07:07 PM
I don't see the sense in prostitution being illegal. I don't approve of it, and I think it has bad consequences, but laws against it are not effective, it only directly affects those who participate and in an otherwise healthy society (e.g. economic) it is not likely to occur on a large scale, simply because it is not a desirable practice for most women. How do you police people offering sex for money? Any girl could say to a guy "give me $500 and you can have sex with me", and there is no difference between that in principle and a girl doing it for a regular income. Such decisions, right or wrong, should be up to individuals.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-01-2009, 07:18 PM
I don't see the sense in prostitution being illegal.
It is the status quo and changing it would require new laws and no politician is going to vote to legalize prostitution. Now the situation is reversed in RI as the status quo is prostitution is legal and requires a law to make it illegal and it has not happened yet. The RI politicians had an out by not having to vote to legalize prostitution.
Hopper
08-01-2009, 07:23 PM
^Changing it would require only repealing existing laws against it. I don't see why new laws would be needed, except if people want it regulated somehow.
It was legalised in Australia, so obviusly the status quo can change when enough people's minds change.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-01-2009, 07:32 PM
^Changing it would require only repealing existing laws against it. I don't see why new laws would be needed, except if people want it regulated somehow.
It was legalised in Australia, so obviusly the status quo can change when enough people's minds change.
Australia was founded by deported convicts; the US of A by religious fanatics.
It would still requite a vote to repeal the law.
Cyril
08-01-2009, 08:33 PM
Agreed. ... :-X
Stick to proof reading. You are much better at it than engaging in a debate. 8)
Gia2608
08-01-2009, 08:41 PM
Australia was founded by deported convicts; the US of A by religious fanatics.
It would still requite a vote to repeal the law.
Sometimes Earl burns my biscuits but I do tip my hat to this one, and with regard to the post about the politicians not voting to change the law, what American politician would ever, ever do that? They're like the #1 or #2 hobbyist group. Hmm... sounds like Lobbyist.
Hopper
08-01-2009, 09:25 PM
^Politicians don't obey their own laws.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-01-2009, 09:48 PM
^Politicians don't obey their own laws.
Really?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2326/2325068146_f12f5483a8.jpg
yoda57us
08-01-2009, 10:27 PM
Brilliant!
Really?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2326/2325068146_f12f5483a8.jpg
Almost Jaded
08-03-2009, 01:02 PM
Stick to proof reading. You are much better at it than engaging in a debate.
Look up debate in the dictionary. Then look up argument. Then post both definitions here and let the general population of SW vote on which activity the majority of your obtuse, uninformed, and just plain stupid posts fall under.
The exploitation definition discussion is funny as hell to me; not 2 weeks ago I had a 30 minute DEBATE with my partners over the use of that word in one of our business plans; specifically in the executive summary. It was decided that despite it being properly used, and despite it's use in the sentence in question being generally agreed as the best "word for the job", it carried too many negative connotations in today's society and that whole sentence was rewritten. Totally ghey, but true. (just messin' with ya Otaki :P )
xdamage
08-03-2009, 01:39 PM
....It was decided that despite it being properly used, and despite it's use in the sentence in question being generally agreed as the best "word for the job", it carried too many negative connotations in today's society and that whole sentence was rewritten. Totally ghey, but true. (just messin' with ya Otaki :P )
Interesting though FWIW we humans create language and we humans constantly re-define it. Whatever people call English today is not English as it always everywhere. New words are added, words from other languages assimilated, meanings change because common use changes, pronounciations vary and thus change, it's all very organic and and the changes are unstoppable. Not everyone adjusts to the changed meanings of words over night, but it happens slowly, some adopt it, then for whatever reasons the change takes on a life of it's own and spreads widely. So yea, I think most everyone I know would agree; the word has negative connotations now, and as such that is what it means (or will in time).
jack0177057
08-03-2009, 03:33 PM
When you engage in prostitution you are exploiting the other person's circumstances, which led her to sell her body.
This may be true in some cases... There may be women that turn to prostitution for survival and have no other ways to subsist... If I know that a woman must prostitute herself to pay her rent and put food on her table (and has no other options available to her), and I exploit that fact, then yes,... I have exploited her... instead of helping her some other way.
However, if a woman has numerous options,... but she enjoys (or tolerates) sex and takes pride in her seductive and sensual skills, and therefore freely chooses to be a sexual-companion-for-hire, I don't believe she is being exploited.
A good example of this can be seen in the Showtime series - Secret Diary of a Call Girl. In the second season she tries to quit escorting only to end up being exploited in an office job. She is treated like shit in this office job - after failing a "simple" task of making copies (which I would have failed, too), she is relegated to a cramped basement to spend a sad mind-numbing eternity alphabetizing a million files. She feels embarassed, insulted and dehumanized,... and so she goes back to escorting, where she is treated with flattery, dignity and respect by her upscale clients.
xdamage
08-03-2009, 04:21 PM
A good example of this can be seen in the Showtime series - Secret Diary of a Call Girl. In the second season she tries to quit escorting only to end up being exploited in an office job. She is treated like shit in this office job - after failing a "simple" task of making copies (which I would have failed, too), she is relegated to a cramped basement to spend a sad mind-numbing eternity alphabetizing a million files. She feels embarassed, insulted and dehumanized,... and so she goes back to escorting, where she is treated with flattery, dignity and respect by her upscale clients.
Like everything in life, we make trade offs. She'll make more money for less stress now. OTOH not having going through the corporate ritual of working her way up the ladder, later in life, perhaps during her 40s-65 or later now, she won't have the resume of someone who put up with the crap and lower pay from 18+. By the end of her life her total income might have been better had she passed on the escorting, but we all gamble that we will live long enough to see our long term plans pay off vs living for the near future.
I lived pretty frugally and took lower paying stressful jobs when I was younger knowing it might pay off later, but then I never considered escorting as an option. If there is any real problem with it then it's just that the money is lucrative, which is good and bad. If the money is saved or used towards career building then it could end well. If the money is simply spent as fast as it is made then eventually the future will come and the escorting job is both a dead end and those years that could have been spent building a resume are lost.
It's like I told my kids who had ideas of being Doctors and Lawyers. I asked them, do you actually want to be a Doctor or a Lawyer? Or do you mean you want the pay and status? Because actually being one is also going to be a big trade off in your life. You will be stressed a LOT if you go that route. It's a choice. We all make them and arguably we all feel exploited at times by our jobs.
jack0177057
08-03-2009, 05:47 PM
I lived pretty frugally and took lower paying stressful jobs when I was younger knowing it might pay off later, but then I never considered escorting as an option.
If I could make a decent living as a male escort catering to rich women with 6 or higher looks, I probably would. I wish I had thought about this when I was younger, better looking and in great shape.
mediocrity
08-03-2009, 06:08 PM
This may be true in some cases... There may be women that turn to prostitution for survival and have no other ways to subsist... If I know that a woman must prostitute herself to pay her rent and put food on her table (and has no other options available to her), and I exploit that fact, then yes,... I have exploited her... instead of helping her some other way.
However, if a woman has numerous options,... but she enjoys (or tolerates) sex and takes pride in her seductive and sensual skills, and therefore freely chooses to be a sexual-companion-for-hire, I don't believe she is being exploited.
A good example of this can be seen in the Showtime series - Secret Diary of a Call Girl. In the second season she tries to quit escorting only to end up being exploited in an office job. She is treated like shit in this office job - after failing a "simple" task of making copies (which I would have failed, too), she is relegated to a cramped basement to spend a sad mind-numbing eternity alphabetizing a million files. She feels embarassed, insulted and dehumanized,... and so she goes back to escorting, where she is treated with flattery, dignity and respect by her upscale clients.
Agreed. I know some people in porn who says they got into just because they love sex. I mean if you reallly want to break it down, take away the camera and crew and it is essentially very similar: sex for money. A girl may choose to go work in a brothel because that is sincerely what she enjoys. As far as I'm concerned that's a lifestyle choice, not exploitation or her "having to" sell her body.
lmiller22134
08-03-2009, 08:30 PM
Humans have been around for thousands of years on this planet. If groin were not that special then by now we would have come to that realization.
We collectively have gauged the implication of prostitution on the society and realized that this is something demeaning to women and therefore should be abolished. But unfortunately we always had a segment among ourselves that wanted to indulge in prostitution; as a result the effort to abolish it never completely succeeded. Similarly prostitution will never be accepted by the society as a normal trade because thousands of years or historical experience tells us that it is not a normal trade.
Stigmata on the face of prostitution has not changed a bit throughout human voyage on this planet. Does not it tell you something?
men paying women for sex isnt demeaning to women. men expecting women to give it up for free because pussy is gods gift to men, is incredibly demeaning, degrading, and humiliating. Why do you keep ignoring my posts? You already posted that your real reason for hating prostitution is because you think pussy should be free.
xdamage
08-03-2009, 09:55 PM
men paying women for sex isnt demeaning to women. men expecting women to give it up for free because pussy is gods gift to men, is incredibly demeaning, degrading, and humiliating. Why do you keep ignoring my posts? You already posted that your real reason for hating prostitution is because you think pussy should be free.
Cyril is having trouble adjusting to some social changes that many people are having trouble adjusting too.
1.) That cheap/safe BC (as well as abortions and DNA testing) have made it possible to have casual sex, and sell sex without most of the risks historically people have had.
2.) That various countries including the USA are slowly but surely assimilating laws and ideas that protect women's rights to choose what they want to do with their own bodies.
Turns out sex is a valuable commodity, but it's being moved into the hands of the women and out of the hands of the males as it should be. That is quite a threat to many males, and to some degree, females as well (explained below)...
However I've been known to make long term predictions that were not popular in the past (go read my old posts) and I do believe in all complex systems that there are always unexpected consequences to any change. So it's not all rosy.
The probable downside is a pattern that is already appearing in Holland. The value of sex (both for sale and in terms of how much power it holds over males) is rapidly decreasing. The problem is the value of something is relative to both how much people want it (men do) and it's rarity (which is rapidly decreasing). There is a reason why both men like Cyril, and women too, have vested interests in keeping sex semi-rare, valuable, tradeable. But the more it becomes a commodity, the more people engage in it for casual enjoyment, the greater the risk it loses it's value. Sex doesn't require training, a degree, or special talent; just will to do so. Even mentally ill people and developmentally disabled people have sex. It's not special except to the degree social taboos have made it seem special. And in Holland the sense of it is that it means less then ever, costs less then ever, and for men, is decreasingly likely to move them to commit to a relationship (because why should they?).
There is a tension at play, that it should remain rare/valuable while at the same time decrease the stigma, and increasingly make it a commodity. Welcome to the human condition. There are always trade offs.