View Full Version : where is prositution legal??
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yoda57us
08-10-2009, 08:06 AM
I'd like to know why a girl who is against uncommitted sex is a stripper, since the job of a stripper is to act out the male fantasy of free sex.
Dancing is selling a sexual fantasy just like prostitution is selling a sexual reality. There are of course some obvious differences and also some commonalities. Selling sex, or working in the sex trade if you will, is a job. A woman's personal choices as to how she conducts her non-professional sex life have nothing to do what she chooses to do for money or her ability to do it well. Trying to compare the two is what sent this thread thread off into inane, irrelevant and repetitive oblivion to begin with.
The folks who do not actually sell real sex or fantasy sex for money seem hell-bent on finding explanations for why women do it. The women who are actually involved in it are generally pretty forth coming about it. The hours are good and it pays well. It's really no more complicated than that.
lmiller22134
08-10-2009, 11:03 AM
WHo the hell were you working for that all your clientel was morbidly obese old guys? I find it extremely hard to believe that the only guys who buy hookers are elderly obese guys...1-because the elderly and the obese probably have a hard time inserting themselves inside of a woman. 2- because as a stripper i can count on one hand the number of elderly men i have seen walk into my club in the past year and i cannot recall a single obese guy who has ever walked into any of my strip clubs. Unless elderly for you is 40. Last time i checked a lot of hookers pick and chose their clients. if all you care about is a buff body then its not hard to just screen all your clients and make sure you only fuck he ones with buff bodies. Though at the end of the day they are all just humans no matter how much muscle they have. What difference does it make how they look liek? they all feel the same way. Its like strippers who say they prefer dancing for hot guys. What difference does it make??? it doesnt for me...
And yes i enjoy fucking attractive people but attractive to me isnt "buff". Its respectful, loving, sweet, caring, compassionate, etc, etc. Which is the only reason id rather not be a hooker or have a one night stand (well the other reason being my vagina would be too sore if i was hooker lol). When you have a one night stand you have no idea who this person is. you could be fucking a serial killer. Same with a hooker i guess but at least the hooker is getting compensated for her loses.
It comes down to though that i just dont get why strippers would fuck someone they would consider a nightmare customer for free. That buff guy you said you want to fuck for free is probablyu a guy you would avoid at the club because you know he is stuck on himself and thinks he is too good to buy dances. Why reward him by sleeping with him for free? This is why guys walk into the club thining they can get a date...because some girls have such low standards that they dont care about the lack of respect the guy is showing by not spending money, they only care ethat he is "hot" and said guy is never actually attractive, just some stuck up butterfaced meathead
lmiller22134
08-10-2009, 11:10 AM
I'd like to know why a girl who is against uncommitted sex is a stripper, since the job of a stripper is to act out the male fantasy of free sex.
It is? I didnt know stripper was charity work. Last time i checked, i got PAID to give lap dances and not all of my customers were hornballs looking to get arroused.
And while i wouldnt date a guy who is into casual sex, i know they exist and i think its great that some men recognize they should have to PAY for casual sex. What i cant stand is men who think its their god given right to have casual sex.
Women do get physical enjoyment out of sex,and if it's a one-night-satand with a nice guy, one they like, then they enjoy it in other ways too. They are some of the things you said you wanted in return for it. Some girsl want sex with certain guys without commitment.
If he is SUCH A NICE GUY then why is he having a one night stand? And why would a girl be satisfied with a one night stand.....seriously do you even know what a one night stand is? its having sex with a stranger and then never seeing them again. Why on earth would i not want to see someone again unless he was a complete asshole?
Elvia
08-10-2009, 01:13 PM
You keep talking about "compensation." Of course a woman who enjoys one night stands feels she's being "compensated," not through money, but she's getting an enjoyable sexual experience. Just because you wouldn't enjoy it doesn't mean other people can't. I know a lot of people do things in their sex lives that I wouldn't personally enjoy, but that doesn't mean I need to cast judgments on them or insist that they're all confused or wrong, or that I'm somehow in a position to declare what all women do or should like in bed.
Can you not see how condescending it is to insist that other women can't make these decisions for themselves, or that you somehow know what they feel and think better than they do?
Almost Jaded
08-10-2009, 01:25 PM
limiller - not attacking you but it has to be said, I'll try to be respectful about it... Marvel and others have pointed out that whatever experiences you've had, do not necessarily apply to everyone else. You attack others' points as being narrow or uninformed, and yet you continue to make post after post containing nothing but generalizations and uninformed opinion. And - please take this as constructive and not name calling - the more you post these things, the more you sound like a bitter bitch who's been messed over a few times and believes everyon else MUST be having the same experience. I assure you, that's not the case.
Point by point...
Show me a prostitute who picks and chooses her clients like that and I'll show you either a 1 in a million career girl or a fictional character. If any women could choose to have noncommittal sex with only those whom she chose, damn near every attractive woman on the planet barring those with personal and religious problems with the issue would be in that line of work. Most of the men who frequent brothels are the guys who can't "get" a woman very easily in the "real world". Some of them are attractive and awesome - but the reality is that much of sexual selection is based on physical attraction, and guys that are deemed less attractive have a tougher time getting laid. Newsflash - same goes for women.
What is this obsessive determined insistence that one-night stands are propagated only by men, and that women are always hurt by it?! It's ridiculous! Moreover, you have girls here disagreeing with you passionately, not just guys! As a fairly attractive guy, I can tell you that my one-nighters have almost all been either instigated by the female or were totally mutual deals. Very few involved more than a desire on both our parts to "get some", a strong physical attraction, and a deeper "getting along" that was just enough that we could tolerate each others presence but not so much that we felt like getting to know each other past a few hours of (hopefully) great sex. As a very intelligent, well presented guy of above average looks, this happens maybe once or twice a year tops (although that could be much higher if I went looking).
For comparison, the following is 100% true, and I really want to know wht you think of it.
I have a freind, we'll call him "Bob". "Bob" is a BEAUTIFUL man, the straightest guy on earth can look at him and be like "dude is hot" without feeling gay about it 'cuz it's just that obviously true. He's also a fairly nice guy, not an asshole for the most part. Bob also has the IQ of a Pet Rock. Barely made it through public school, joined the military after taking the ASVAB 6 times (and that thing is EASY). Bob gets more action than one would think is humanly possible. He doesn't even try. Girls meet him, determine he's not a threat, and fuck him - frequently within MINUTES of meeting him, not joking. Can't count the number of times we've all left a bar together, and 3 of us are out front wondering where Bob is, finally walk back to his car, and see the hot waitress/bartender chick /girl who was alone at the bar sucking him off or riding him like a mechanical bull. ALL THE TIME. Seen it happen at malls, movie theaters, grocery stores - ANYWHERE. And he NEVER initiates it, because he's actually pretty shy. The vast majority of them wave bye and leave. Maybe 1 in 5 even try to give him their number - if that many. And most that he calls back only want to fuck again, MAYBE 1 in 20 have ANY interest in seeing him outside the bedroom/wherever is convenient. 1 in 5 or so are also married or committed. Ask Bob how many women he's been with, and he'll tell you 50 or so - because he only counts the girls he fucks more than twice. Ask how many period, and he'll look t you funny; he literally has not the faintest idea. I would estimate it CONSERVATIVELY at 3 to 4 hundred, I've known him since high school. And it's only that low because he was married and mostly behaved himself for almost 9 years; though frankly since he and his wife started swinging, I don't even want to think what it's like for him at one of THOSE parties, LMAO!
So explain THAT one, if you please.
LOT'S of people - the majority of "sexually liberated" ones of both genders in fact - enjoy casual sex, and VERY few would do it for money, 'cuz that brings with it the stigma. My ex who was a stripper and a "clean" escort left more than a few private dances while escorting shaking her head about the guy was rich and hot as hell and wanted to pay her a couple grand or more (once she tuned down $25k cash) to fuck. She said - many times - "It's too bad - if I met that guy at a bar I'd fuck the life out of him. But I'm not a whore, so them's the breaks".
:shrug:
Hopper
08-10-2009, 11:25 PM
Dancing is selling a sexual fantasy just like prostitution is selling a sexual reality. There are of course some obvious differences and also some commonalities. Selling sex, or working in the sex trade if you will, is a job. A woman's personal choices as to how she conducts her non-professional sex life have nothing to do what she chooses to do for money or her ability to do it well. Trying to compare the two is what sent this thread thread off into inane, irrelevant and repetitive oblivion to begin with.
The folks who do not actually sell real sex or fantasy sex for money seem hell-bent on finding explanations for why women do it. The women who are actually involved in it are generally pretty forth coming about it. The hours are good and it pays well. It's really no more complicated than that.
You missed my point. LM is zealously opposed to casual sex, yet her job is to sell the fantasy of women who give it up freely for any man they see. I know it's just fantasy and that they don't actually give up sex and what they do give away isn't for free. But the idea is still there, it's a role she acts out. It's what the fantasy is about. The thing LM is here violently denouncing.
I know why other girls do it and it's probably also why LM does it. I'm asking how LM justifies it to herself. I'm asking WHY the idea behind what she does for money isinconsistent with her personal life and her ideas about other people's personal lives.
LM is exploiting the very mentality which outright repulses and angers her. And she justifies it by saying she's paid to do it and is not herself giving anything away. But that means she is exploiting and promoting that mentality.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-10-2009, 11:51 PM
What i cant stand is men who think its their god given right to have casual sex.
Some men do not have casual sex; they give casual sex. Have you ever met one? /:O
Hopper
08-11-2009, 01:59 AM
It is? I didnt know stripper was charity work. Last time i checked, i got PAID to give lap dances and not all of my customers were hornballs looking to get arroused.
And while i wouldnt date a guy who is into casual sex, i know they exist and i think its great that some men recognize they should have to PAY for casual sex. What i cant stand is men who think its their god given right to have casual sex.
You have customers who get lapsances for some other reason than to get aroused?
I know strippers do it for money, but the point is that you are exploiting the one-night-stand mentality, like a Playboy Playmate. Playmates act like they are ready to give the man whatever he wants right now. That is the male fantasy they cater to. Strippers do the same.
If he is SUCH A NICE GUY then why is he having a one night stand? And why would a girl be satisfied with a one night stand.....seriously do you even know what a one night stand is? its having sex with a stranger and then never seeing them again. Why on earth would i not want to see someone again unless he was a complete asshole?
We like lots of girls, but by definition we can't be committed to all of them. Same goes for the girls. So often it's a mutually suitable arrangement. Spend much time on Earth do you?
Earl_the_Pearl
08-11-2009, 02:05 AM
You have customers who get lapsances for some other reason than to get aroused?
These are PLs that are sexually confused; not necessarily gay but perhaps. :eyebrow:
Hopper
08-11-2009, 02:29 AM
Yup.
You got it.
Gender roles are crippling.
One great thing about a gay lifestyle is that you aren't typically confined to a role that society says you should have. Each partner lives their lives fluidly jumping back and forth between what society deems as "feminine" & "masculine" roles as they see fit within their relationship. Works beautifully. You straight people oughta try it sometime.
I identify totally as a feminist.
I doubt I (or many others) fit into your nice generic view of what a "feminist" really is.
Now isn't that interesting, when you think about it. A homosexual is someone who, like heterosexuals, is attracted to one gender and not the other. So right there they have to acknowledge a difference between the genders.
But lopaw, a lesbian, says that gender roles are crippling. She knows there is some kind of difference between the genders, or she wouldn't prefer one, but denies that those differences could imply different roles.
However, in the above quote, right after saying gender roles are crippling, she says how great it is to be able to assume different roles which we less-sophisticated thinkers call "feminine" and "masculine". (She doesn't say what else we should call them.)
Really, the only reason homosexuals jump back and forth between masculine and feminine behaviour (the nearest they can get to it) in their relations is that only one gender is actually present and one partner has to pretend to be the other gender; and, since they are both one gender, it doesn't matter if they take turns. Lopaw is making a virtue of necessity.
It's not really a freedom, but a limitation which they must try to compensate for. Heterosexual couples don't have to compensate by pretending to be another gender, since both are present and each is naturally their own gender with corresponding role.
Lopaw doesn't understand that heterosexuals enjoy those roles and don't need to change out of them. Each gender naturally enjoys their roles. It is a form of diversity, a relation betwen two inherently different kinds of people. Lopaw also doesn't understand how complex those roles and their interaction can be. For example, it is not simply submissive vs. dominant. You can't pretend to be in that role, you have to be the right gender for it.
So lopaw is simultaneously denying the need for gender roles and advocating the need for gender roles, by characterising them as something other than "masculine" and "feminine".
This is the sort of confused thinking which results from the feminist denial of gender differences and resulting roles. If there is no gender, then there is not only not heterosexuality, but no homosexuality also, since there is no sex to be homo to.
yoda57us
08-11-2009, 06:28 AM
You missed my point.
No, I didn't. You just don't like the fact that I dismissed it with a relatively basic argument.
My point is that it's a job and nothing about her personal beliefs has to enter into what she does for a living. A good stripper is a actress and a good sales person. Nothing more and nothing less. She doesn't have to believe what she is selling you anymore than a car salesman in the 1970's had to believe that the Ford Pinto was the best car on his lot...All she has to do is convince a horny guy that she cares about something other than his wallet. She's hot and naked so the job is almost done before she even opens her mouth...
To be honest I don't agree with most of her POV on the issues being discussed here but the one thing that seems clear in her posts is her ability to see dollar signs when it comes to sex. That's a good start to being a good stripper...
Sorry if that dilutes the fantasy a bit but it's reality.
yoda57us
08-11-2009, 06:30 AM
LM is exploiting the very mentality which outright repulses and angers her. And she justifies it by saying she's paid to do it and is not herself giving anything away. But that means she is exploiting and promoting that mentality.
and this is a problem because...?
MarvelGirl
08-11-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm so sorry that I actually believed that I had the right to make my own choices about my body lmiller.
I deeply hope that you can forgive me for committing the terrible, terrible crime of being different from you. I realize now that you are an all knowing expert about prostitution even though you have never worked as one. I also realize that you are the ultimate expert of my own mind and personal feelings.
I'm so sorry that my lifestyle has caused you such an incredibly amount of pain and hurt. I do hope that you can forgive me for ruining your life with my disgusting sexual freedom.
By the way, please private message me your cell phone number so that I can call you anytime I need to make any decision in my life to avoid damaging you again.
Cyril
08-11-2009, 07:15 PM
lol :) lol
Hopper
08-12-2009, 12:52 AM
No, I didn't. You just don't like the fact that I dismissed it with a relatively basic argument.
Your argument didn't address my point. I agree with everything you said.
My point is that it's a job and nothing about her personal beliefs has to enter into what she does for a living. A good stripper is a actress and a good sales person. Nothing more and nothing less. She doesn't have to believe what she is selling you anymore than a car salesman in the 1970's had to believe that the Ford Pinto was the best car on his lot...All she has to do is convince a horny guy that she cares about something other than his wallet. She's hot and naked so the job is almost done before she even opens her mouth...
The car salesman didn't have a moral objection to people driving Pintos. An actor would not have a problem playing a murderer. But he would have a problem playing one in a film which promoted murder.
To be honest I don't agree with most of her POV on the issues being discussed here but the one thing that seems clear in her posts is her ability to see dollar signs when it comes to sex. That's a good start to being a good stripper...
Sorry if that dilutes the fantasy a bit but it's reality.
Adults can tell the difference.
Cyril
08-12-2009, 12:59 AM
To be honest I don't agree with most of her POV on the issues being discussed here but the one thing that seems clear in her posts is her ability to see dollar signs when it comes to sex. That's a good start to being a good stripper...
I had four tablets of sleeping pills but I am still up. Since I am up, I have to put this time to some good use.
Contrary to popular belief, women who adopt prostitution as a profession do not enjoy sex. They see it as some boring chore and as a result they want to get compensated for doing this.
Hopper
08-12-2009, 02:57 AM
^Sorry, that wasn't me; it was yoda57us - I made a mistake with the quote tags. What was the good use you put your awake time to? :)
Hopper
08-12-2009, 03:06 AM
and this is a problem because...?
Not for me, for her. Like Carry Nation doing paid beer ads. Or anti-"gay rights" lobbyists throwing a female impersonator cabaret as a church fundraiser.
Earl_the_Pearl
08-12-2009, 08:31 AM
Contrary to popular belief, women who adopt prostitution as a profession do not enjoy sex.
It is a known fact that some providers have orgasms with some Johns.
Almost Jaded
08-12-2009, 11:09 AM
I personally know several women who work as porn stars and/or prostitutes who LOVE what they do, and LOVE the fact that they fuck for a living.
Why do some people here insist on lumping everyone in a given situation into one group?! It's SO obviously wrong that I have difficulty wrapping my head around what your thought process must be to get there!
threlayer
08-12-2009, 07:05 PM
...Contrary to popular belief, women who adopt prostitution as a profession do not enjoy sex. They see it as some boring chore and as a result they want to get compensated for doing this.Is this merely your own personal opinion or do you have a lot of facts to back up your statement? Yes, the want to be compensated, but I think your other info is just based on stereotypes inserted into your psyche by sefl-righteous "do-gooders."
...You are exploiting her situation, a situation which forces a helpless woman to sell her body. She could be acting to look happy and underneath her soul could be crying.
So I've heard that the high end escorts often have had lots of free will to choose their profession, though many choose to leave it after a few years. (They often find better offers or have built up a nice nest-egg.) The ones Cyril is referring to, I believe, are the street whores or those otherwise who feel forced to work in a field that needs practically no training and little self-esteem (confidence). Some strippers are that way also, but often those are also part-time prostitutes, or those who want to "come in from the cold", or those who need extra money to feed their expensive habits.
Cyril, don't believe the "do-gooders" who believe that any women in any part of the sex industry have had lots of problems first. BTW, they officially aren't helpless, though many may well feel that way and are in a lot of psychological pain for other reasons.
Cyril
08-12-2009, 07:31 PM
^Sorry, that wasn't me; it was yoda57us - I made a mistake with the quote tags. What was the good use you put your awake time to? :)
Reading stripper web. :)
lmiller22134
08-17-2009, 02:57 PM
You keep talking about "compensation." Of course a woman who enjoys one night stands feels she's being "compensated," not through money, but she's getting an enjoyable sexual experience. Just because you wouldn't enjoy it doesn't mean other people can't. I know a lot of people do things in their sex lives that I wouldn't personally enjoy, but that doesn't mean I need to cast judgments on them or insist that they're all confused or wrong, or that I'm somehow in a position to declare what all women do or should like in bed.
Can you not see how condescending it is to insist that other women can't make these decisions for themselves, or that you somehow know what they feel and think better than they do?
yeah and there are women who enjoy giving free lap dances...yet we dont defend THEM...
You guys dont seem to realize that you blatently saying that women enjoy having one night stands is the very reason why guys are completely offended and confused when you refuse to give them your number and meet them at their place. Its the reason why i constantly get propositioned for sex while I'm at work and guys think it is their god given right to get laid by ANY girl they chose.
So thank you, for making it harder for all types of sex workers everywhere to make any money at all. Why would any guy go to a sex worker when he can get everything he wants sexually for absolutely nothing (not even having to sacrifice time or having to commit to someone).
Show me a prostitute who picks and chooses her clients like that and I'll show you either a 1 in a million career girl or a fictional character.
You are right, they are not common. Unfortunately too many women use prostitution as their ONLY source of income thus leading them to desperation at time and to lower their standards so they dont end up living on the streets. Personally i think that if youre going to be a hooker you should do it right, be a high end one, be choosy, and dont rely on it as your ONLY source of income, otherwise you end up undercharging and making the business less lucrative for other hookers. Much like the cheap extras girls at the strip club.
As a fairly attractive guy, I can tell you that my one-nighters have almost all been either instigated by the female or were totally mutual deals.
Right and when i was younger i would instigate stuff too...the reality is that i had horrible self esteem and was brainwashed by the media to think that you had to have sex to be "cool." Just because the girl you are fucking and leaving seems sane doesnt mean she is. I also find it funny how you say that guys who go to sex workers are unattractive yet you seem to be very into strippers (kind of like a sex worker) and you claim to be attractive. How come you get to break your own stereotype???
And though I doubt this "bob" guy even exists, and he sounds like a flat out jerk...a lot of the time the reason girls want to fuck a hot guy is because of status. Much for the same reason girls want to fuck celebrities, to say they DID. it doesnt mean that they enjoy fucking random people, risking stds and pregnancy, and then never seeing them again. Self esteem issues, as i pointed out above are also often to blame. some girls seem to think that if they fuck a hot guy that means they MUST be hot themselves. they fuck "bob" for validation, because if bob says yes to them they assume it must mean theyre beautiful. Sorry, but that is not healthy.
My ex who was a stripper and a "clean" escort left more than a few private dances while escorting shaking her head about the guy was rich and hot as hell and wanted to pay her a couple grand or more (once she tuned down $25k cash) to fuck. She said - many times - "It's too bad - if I met that guy at a bar I'd fuck the life out of him. But I'm not a whore, so them's the breaks".
your ex sounds like a complete moron. I am sooo freaking annoyed that people still think getting paid for sex is worse than giving it away randomly for free....
You missed my point. LM is zealously opposed to casual sex, yet her job is to sell the fantasy of women who give it up freely for any man they see. I know it's just fantasy and that they don't actually give up sex and what they do give away isn't for free. But the idea is still there, it's a role she acts out. It's what the fantasy is about. The thing LM is here violently denouncing.
actually its not a role i act out. I do not act while at work. I am horrible at improvising and dont approve of manipulation. If i cant make money without manipulating i just wont make any money, I have too much of a heart to lead a guy on just to get money out of him. All of my customers know that I am there to WORK and that i dont want to go to bed with him. Guys who realize they are at a strip club and know how the system works will give me money. Guys who think they stand a chance with me will bitch at me and call me a money grubbing bitch and talk bad about me to their friends because i dont grovel at their feet, i dont sit on their laps for free, and i dont give them fake compliments like the other girls do.
I know strippers do it for money, but the point is that you are exploiting the one-night-stand mentality, like a Playboy Playmate. Playmates act like they are ready to give the man whatever he wants right now. That is the male fantasy they cater to. Strippers do the same.
Really? well thats some weird effed up interpretation you have if you think that playboy playmates display an obtainable image. I mean all the freaking photoshopping in the magazine should be more than enough to make these girls look like unobtainable holograms who you will only ever be able to admire from afar. Its funny how differently men think
We like lots of girls, but by definition we can't be committed to all of them. Same goes for the girls. So often it's a mutually suitable arrangement. Spend much time on Earth do you?
Really? when i was younger i used to like a lot of people too. as i get older my standards get stricter and stricter and i find that i am only once in a blue moon attracted enough to a guy and have enough chemistry with him that i would want to sleep with him. when that comes around i definitely want to continue a relationship with him. i find it hard to believe that you have chemistry with that many girls. chemistry is RARE. finding someone who matches your pheremones is rare, perhaps you havent experienced it, but once you find a person like that you definitely would NOT want to let them go. For me its not worth touching a guy who i dont have chemistry with, so i just dont get why girls or guys fuck others for free who they ONLY find attractive and dont really have any connection with. I wouldnt even get WET if there was no connection!
xdamage
08-17-2009, 03:12 PM
Contrary to popular belief, women who adopt prostitution as a profession do not enjoy sex. They see it as some boring chore and as a result they want to get compensated for doing this.
I doubt most people assume prostitutes like having sex with their johns, but in any case, it is not all or nothing.
I don't always love having to think so hard at work, yea well it is work, but still enjoy intellectual pursuits outside of work.
I don't always love physical labor at work, but still enjoy physical pursuits outside of work.
by continuation then...
A prostitute may not love the sex at work, but still may enjoy it outside of work.
I can understand that you want to be in a relationship where sex is something exclusive between you and your SO, sharing physical pleasure as catalyst/binder for the emotional part of your life, and that is fine, pursue that. But it's not your job to save all women from themselves. They are adults and can make their own choices.
And as usual, of course we are not talking here about women forced into the work in the sense of at threat of bodily harm, but those who say "Yea, I could work at a variety of 9-5s or other careers and would rather do this for the money and my time"
lmiller22134
08-17-2009, 03:31 PM
Is this merely your own personal opinion or do you have a lot of facts to back up your statement? Yes, the want to be compensated, but I think your other info is just based on stereotypes inserted into your psyche by sefl-righteous "do-gooders."
I agree. If you enjoy sex THAT much i think its pretty freaking stupid NOT to get paid for it. We all try to find jobs that we enjoy, its a dream to be payed to do what we love. Saying hookers dont enjoy sex is like saying a paid musician doesn't enjoy making music.
Almost Jaded
08-17-2009, 09:33 PM
1. - you contradict yourself repeatedly, which makes a continuing discussion/debate very difficult. For instance - no woman would choose prostitution given another option - BUT - a women who chooses to be a prostitute should have another career so she isn't dependent on her Johns alone for income. If she has this other career, according to you, she wouldn't dream of becoming a prostitute. Which is it?
2. - this is also related to points below, but... Your assumption/belief that any woman who has a one night stand and doesn't get paid for it is a moron is insulting to men and women everywhere, and just plain dumb. There is something to be said - for MOST people, not just a few - for having sex with someone YOU WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH, FOR IT'S OWN SAKE, and charging for it makes it something else. If you don't get that, then either you don't have sex or you're a prostitute. Which is it?
3. - what, exectly, is wrong with breaking a stereotype? Just because I'm attractive "enough" to "get" girls I can't enjoy a SC or - gasp! - a brothel? Why the hell not?
4. - "Bob" absolutely DOES exist, though his name isn't Bob. In fact I dialed the stories BACK a little in the interest of believability, lol. And you're wrong as can be, he's a pretty nice guy all around. Very few women are interested in anything with him but sex, and it bothers him. The few relationships he has had the women get annoyed with his slow mentality and move on. Only his current wife has stuck with him, and even that relationship has been quite strained in several ways. He finds it odd that men obsess over getting laid so much and complain about relationships, because in his world the problems have always been reversed. Regardless - the story was to prove a point that you avoided by deciding he doesn't exist - the fact that women throw themselves at him for one night stands. In your view this cannot be the case unless those girls have serious self esteem problems. Despite, of course, the fact that many women here tell you you're wrong. MarvelGirl and Mediocrity, I am completely revising my opinion of you two, lmiller has convinced me you two pathetic bitches have no self esteem becuase you liked one night stands. :rolleyes:
Again for making a point's sake - just because YOU don't understand or agree with a course of action doesn't mean it's wring for everyone. If that's how you view everything - your way or the highway - you must have a very sad existence much of the time. :(
Elvia
08-18-2009, 02:13 AM
So thank you, for making it harder for all types of sex workers everywhere to make any money at all. Why would any guy go to a sex worker when he can get everything he wants sexually for absolutely nothing (not even having to sacrifice time or having to commit to someone).
Sweetheart, it is not everyone else's job to limit their sex life according to what would be convenient for you. Just because we're sex workers doesn't mean we aren't allowed to enjoy sex for it's own sake when we so wish and in whatever such decisions we desire. The fact that you think otherwise is beyond narcissistic.
Elvia
08-18-2009, 02:31 AM
yeah and there are women who enjoy giving free lap dances...yet we dont defend THEM...
If a woman wants to give a lap dance to whomever she wishes in her own home, that's her business and I really couldn't care. In the club is clearly a different story since the rest of the dancers are trying to sell dances and that's the purpose of the establishment. If a hooker decided to stop charging at the brothel she worked at, I'm sure it would upset her co workers. But that doesn't mean she's not allowed to have any type of sex life she wants when she goes home. And really, I think most healthy reasonable people don't concern themselves so much with the private sex life of others.
You guys dont seem to realize that you blatently saying that women enjoy having one night stands is the very reason why guys are completely offended and confused when you refuse to give them your number and meet them at their place. Its the reason why i constantly get propositioned for sex while I'm at work and guys think it is their god given right to get laid by ANY girl they chose.
Well Hon, those unfortunate individuals are as confused as you. SOME women enjoy one night stands. Not all of them, and that should be easy enough for anyone to understand, and usually with select chosen few. Any guy who acts entitled to sex is just simply an idiot and a douchebag, and likely isn't getting laid anyway. You can not blame other people's stupidity on women who want to sometimes have one night stands, convenient though that might be for you.
xdamage
08-18-2009, 06:24 AM
See to me much of this discussion just comes down to basic human competition.
In theory what each other does with their own body shouldn't bother us in the least, but since it does, there must be a reason for it. Putting aside simply writing it off as "religion", I view it from the "how does it effect me?" mindset. In actuality, on some level, humans compete aggressively and know that what others do alters the perceived value of sex.
The thing about sex, like so much else is, that women (and men to a lesser degree) have deep seated interests it keeping it a valuable commodity. What others do alters the perceived value of sex. Examples?
For women who want to trade sex as an exclusive benefit of engaging in a long term relationship (e.g., marriage) ... those selling it, and those having it casually, are lowering the perceived social value. That is to say, they are altering the attitudes of males regarding how much sex is worth. Alternatively they lower the value of the women so engaging (i.e., by promoting the idea that those are "whores" and "sluts" attacks against other women).
For women who want to sell sex... those having it casually and freely are lowering the perceived social value. That is to say, they are altering the attitudes of males regarding how much sex is worth monetarily.
For women who want to have sex casually and freely... they MAY have some internal conflicts, but usually do not, though they may struggle with the fact that men both want to have sex with them, and at the same time degrade them for the fact that it was free.
I am simplifying but...
And the men have vested interests too in this. As the options of buying sex or having it casually increase, the value of it in a long term exclusive relationship comes into question. While it would be nice to imagine that people enter into marriage purely out of love, we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't acknowledge that for males the sex, and sexual exclusivity was a large factor that drew them to the marriage agreement.
Oh to be clear no one person's behavior really alters the value of sex, but collectively people sense it and resist the social changes.
CFMNH44
08-18-2009, 07:56 AM
- the reality is that much of sexual selection is based on physical attraction, and guys that are deemed less attractive have a tougher time getting laid. Newsflash - same goes for women.
:shrug:
Comment from a history geek: Benjamin Franklin once remarked that 'older women are more appreciative' (and more discrete...), which alludes to 'there is someone for everyone', but maybe not the 'hottie you really want'... (Just sayin this is human nature, although I don’t think ‘hottie’ was in the urban dictionary back then…)
Back on topic, politicians would better serve the people that elected them if they dealt with real issues rather than passing laws to prevent certain behavior that doesn’t involve them. The only problem I have with ‘legalizing’ prostitution, or any other sex business, is that it becomes a ‘revenue source’ and likely will be regulated and taxed. It would be better if there were simply no laws pertaining to it, but I guess that’s too much to expect, since there are laws about how to sell firewood, who can cut hair, etc. Massachusetts is big on ‘licensing’, and whole ‘training’ industries have formed to teach how to pass the certification test if you want to be an electrician, hair stylist, or fiber-optic installer. Maybe I should put on my ‘entrepreneur hat’ and write a business plan for the ‘how to be a hooker in RI school’… ;)
Otoki
08-18-2009, 08:57 AM
^^^^ more evidence that the most discriminated against demographic these days days is the straight white male
If it weren't for the other thread, I would have thought you were joking. Since you're probably not, I'm going to go ahead and put you on ignore, Pat Buchanan.
It's just a front for political goals. It's a branch of the socialist movement. See my brief history above.
And this is where I stopped reading your posts and also put you on ignore. The ignorance in this posts is simply amazing. And your brief history was rather lacking in facts within a broader historical context. You're picking and choosing what facts you'd like to present, and ignoring the earlier roots of feminism because they make you feel uncomfortable, or icky, or who the fuck knows.
Ok, now back to reading non-idiotic posts in this thread.
xdamage
08-18-2009, 08:59 AM
...but the reality is that much of sexual selection is based on physical attraction, and guys that are deemed less attractive have a tougher time getting laid. Newsflash - same goes for women.
:shrug:
Agreed though an unpopular thing to say. Guys may have an easier time here though when women valued traits like a man's ability to provide safety, protection, or even fame (lot's of advantages to hanging out with the famous including opportunities to meet better sexual candidates) but that is changing too as women become more independent. Hey, not popular think so I'll probably get swatted for it (wont be the first time though) ;)
That is though really a big key that when you sort through matters like racism, and sexism, there is another fundamental sorting that people do with each other including ranking each other by attractiveness. It is very powerful asset if one has it and some interesting studies have been done to show that attractive people are overall better off (in terms of how they are treated, how tolerant people are of their views, of how much they earn, and of course how many sexual partner choices they have).
But it works! From a survival strategy PoV appearance and health potential are often very closely related matters and we just know intuitively that those who exhibit certain physical traits will probably make good babies. We don't necessarily think about it in those terms, but our genetic underpinnings do and all those sexual biological chemicals turn on when we see someone attractive.
The key thing is that all people, no matter their attractiveness level still have the same urges, same key factors that turn them on. In a strange way though if everyone was equally as attractive, if we were all pure duplicate clones of each other, it would be a very different world. Yet we are not, and competition is (overall) a good thing. It leads to overall improvements in the species, but some win, some lose.
My only final comment on that is that just as people do not care to acknowledge that they have advantages in life due to their race or sex (as acknowledging it is a non-ego stroke, vs believing one has gotten ahead strictly via one's own will power) it is a non-ego stroke to acknowledge that people treat each other differently based on their attractiveness level if one is on the benefiting end; if one is on the losing end they see it as obviously as women see they are at a disadvantage in some societies, as obvious as black people see they are at a disadvantage in the USA, etc.
lmiller22134
08-18-2009, 02:53 PM
1. - you contradict yourself repeatedly, which makes a continuing discussion/debate very difficult. For instance - no woman would choose prostitution given another option - BUT - a women who chooses to be a prostitute should have another career so she isn't dependent on her Johns alone for income. If she has this other career, according to you, she wouldn't dream of becoming a prostitute. Which is it?
2. - this is also related to points below, but... Your assumption/belief that any woman who has a one night stand and doesn't get paid for it is a moron is insulting to men and women everywhere, and just plain dumb. There is something to be said - for MOST people, not just a few - for having sex with someone YOU WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH, FOR IT'S OWN SAKE, and charging for it makes it something else. If you don't get that, then either you don't have sex or you're a prostitute. Which is it?
3. - what, exectly, is wrong with breaking a stereotype? Just because I'm attractive "enough" to "get" girls I can't enjoy a SC or - gasp! - a brothel? Why the hell not?
4. - "Bob" absolutely DOES exist, though his name isn't Bob. In fact I dialed the stories BACK a little in the interest of believability, lol. And you're wrong as can be, he's a pretty nice guy all around. Very few women are interested in anything with him but sex, and it bothers him. The few relationships he has had the women get annoyed with his slow mentality and move on. Only his current wife has stuck with him, and even that relationship has been quite strained in several ways. He finds it odd that men obsess over getting laid so much and complain about relationships, because in his world the problems have always been reversed. Regardless - the story was to prove a point that you avoided by deciding he doesn't exist - the fact that women throw themselves at him for one night stands. In your view this cannot be the case unless those girls have serious self esteem problems. Despite, of course, the fact that many women here tell you you're wrong. MarvelGirl and Mediocrity, I am completely revising my opinion of you two, lmiller has convinced me you two pathetic bitches have no self esteem becuase you liked one night stands. :rolleyes:
Again for making a point's sake - just because YOU don't understand or agree with a course of action doesn't mean it's wring for everyone. If that's how you view everything - your way or the highway - you must have a very sad existence much of the time. :(
When did I ever say that hookers should only hook because they dont have other options? Please dont confuse me with the thread starter. I said a lot of hookers DO only hook because they have no other options. I didnt say i agreed with that mentality.
2. No, actually men and women everywhere expecting men and women everywhere to put out for absolutely NOTHING is insulting to humans, period. My pussy isnt worth less than a penny, sorry, i am horribly INSULTED when anyone even hints at the possibility of fucking me for nothing. Its incredibly cocky to think you are so amazing that any girl would fuck you for free. The only thing charging changes is it makes it easier to agree that this is a one night stand and nothing more. It makes it easier for the person charging not to fall in love and become a clingy bitch because there is an agreement that that is not to take place since she is being compensated. The only way it really changes things in a bad way is for people who have been brainwashed to think that being a raging slut is good and being a whore is bad.
3. you broke your OWN steroetype, that is whats wrong. While i highly highly highly doubt you are attractive, its ridiculous of you to say that only ugly men frequent sex workers when you yourself frequent sex workers and claim you are attractive. Sorry i just dont see physically attractive men frequenting a forum for strippers. While attractive men do go to strip clubs they dont seem to get so obsessive about it to the point that they would be reading stripper forums all day long.
4. Nice guys dont fuck any girl who throws her pussy at them. Your idea of nice is clearly not the same as mine. I know plenty of nice guys, they all have standards and would be weirded out if girls just threw themselves at them like that, not only that but they would have so little respect for girls like that that they wouldnt even want to go anywhere near them, much less fuck them. If it bothers him so much then why doesnt he fucking stop being a freaking dick??? Yes I know women throw themselves at men sometimes. Sane and kind men understand that these women have issues and dont take advantage of them. Bob does, thats cruel. If i ever "throw myself" at someone is because i want a relationship. If I wanted dick that wasn't going to love me or even LIKE me then id just use a dildo.
If Marvel girl and Mediocrity like one night stands so much i am very surprised they are not currently hookers. Again, regardless of looks, everyone basically feels the same, and if your standards are so low that you dont even need love or chemistry to fuck someone, why not be a hooker?
lmiller22134
08-18-2009, 02:54 PM
Sweetheart, it is not everyone else's job to limit their sex life according to what would be convenient for you. Just because we're sex workers doesn't mean we aren't allowed to enjoy sex for it's own sake when we so wish and in whatever such decisions we desire. The fact that you think otherwise is beyond narcissistic.
Oh you are totally right. Its not everyone elses job to try to keep extras girls out of the club either because it would be convenient for the rest of us
Why on earth would you have sex for free when you can get paid for it? thats what i dont understand
thats like a musician being offered a record deal and saying "no thanks id rather do it for free"
[QUOTE=Elvia;1839777]If a woman wants to give a lap dance to whomever she wishes in her own home, that's her business and I really couldn't care. In the club is clearly a different story since the rest of the dancers are trying to sell dances and that's the purpose of the establishment. If a hooker decided to stop charging at the brothel she worked at, I'm sure it would upset her co workers. But that doesn't mean she's not allowed to have any type of sex life she wants when she goes home. And really, I think most healthy reasonable people don't concern themselves so much with the private sex life of others.
Well Hon, those unfortunate individuals are as confused as you. SOME women enjoy one night stands. Not all of them, and that should be easy enough for anyone to understand, and usually with select chosen few. Any guy who acts entitled to sex is just simply an idiot and a douchebag, and likely isn't getting laid anyway. You can not blame other people's stupidity on women who want to sometimes have one night stands, convenient though that might be for you.
I live in a city where the women are so freely promiscious that it truly fucks up the strip club business. One of the top excuses a lot of younger men have for not getting lap dances is "why should i pay for a lap dance when i could get one at the night club for free?"
So even if girls do it outside the club it STILL effects our business and I know i am not the only one here who is beyond pissed that these "sexually liberated" girls are making it super hard for us to make money.
I truly do not understand the fun in a one night stand, or one night of ANYTHING and never seeing the person ever again. If you enjoy a person you will want MORE than a one night stand. If i enjoy lets say hiking with a guy, ill want to hike with him again, its not even just sex, its ANYTHING in life.
Elvia
08-18-2009, 03:17 PM
Oh you are totally right. Its not everyone elses job to try to keep extras girls out of the club either because it would be convenient for the rest of us
As I explained to you (and which you either just decided to ignore, or just couldn't understand) what we do at work and what we do in our personal lives are entirely different things. Do you honestly expect everyone to manage their private sex lives according to what YOU want? Seriously??
Elvia
08-18-2009, 03:21 PM
I truly do not understand the fun in a one night stand, or one night of ANYTHING and never seeing the person ever again.
Well, here's the beauty of it- YOU DON'T HAVE TO. I don't personally relate to the thrill some people get from peeing on eachother. Or anal sex. Just not my things. But I don't have to.
You better learn to deal with the fact that other people are not merely extensions of you, and that not everyone's sexuality is identical to yours, and that no one gives a shit if you do or do not relate. The world will be a much better place for all of us once you can accept that not everyone is like you, and they don't have to be.
xdamage
08-18-2009, 03:46 PM
I live in a city where the women are so freely promiscious that it truly fucks up the strip club business. One of the top excuses a lot of younger men have for not getting lap dances is "why should i pay for a lap dance when i could get one at the night club for free?"
So even if girls do it outside the club it STILL effects our business and I know i am not the only one here who is beyond pissed that these "sexually liberated" girls are making it super hard for us to make money.
Right, and see my post above yours where I noted this a key factor in why people take what others do personally.. but the problem is...
I truly do not understand the fun in a one night stand, or one night of ANYTHING and never seeing the person ever again. If you enjoy a person you will want MORE than a one night stand. If i enjoy lets say hiking with a guy, ill want to hike with him again, its not even just sex, its ANYTHING in life.
There are plenty of women that feel the same (and some guys) but also you have to remember that selling it for $$s pisses off many people too.
From their PoV it cheapens sex, turns it into something with a lot of "meaning" that they could trade for a lifetime relationship (and all the benefits off) into something that is just a commodity.
Cyril for example freaks out about this and so do many other people. From their PoV selling sex is taking away the value, the mystique, what made it something special, the emotional bonding, so for them selling it is screwing up their preferred way of of how to capitalize on the value of sex.
And there lies the way it is with so many things. Everyone wants what they want, the want the rules to align with their own preferences and for everyone else to agree (not necessarily condone, but at least not interfere).
And the value of sex really is all relative. Because sex really has no absolute value (even developmentally disabled people have sex along with most every creature on the planet that has split sexes). The only value it has is what we think it does in our heads. See in many ways its present day market value in $s is high because of so much before us that taught us sex is something that shouldn't be sold or engaged in casually. You are a beneficiary today of religious beliefs of the past but... economics change...
As time goes on, as the stigma about selling it further decreases, even its saleable value will drop because there is nothing preventing every woman from capitalizing on it, and thus competing for prices, except that currently they are kind of like you. Pissed that some women are selling it and it is ruining the value it has as a point of power in their relationships.
Such is life.. usually when we get what we want there are side effects we didn't.
Almost Jaded
08-18-2009, 04:11 PM
When did I ever say that hookers should only hook because they dont have other options? Please dont confuse me with the thread starter. I said a lot of hookers DO only hook because they have no other options. I didnt say i agreed with that mentality.
I am not going to go back over dozens of posts right now, so I'll concede this one and assume I misunderstood you at some point.
2. No, actually men and women everywhere expecting men and women everywhere to put out for absolutely NOTHING is insulting to humans, period. My pussy isnt worth less than a penny, sorry, i am horribly INSULTED when anyone even hints at the possibility of fucking me for nothing. Its incredibly cocky to think you are so amazing that any girl would fuck you for free. The only thing charging changes is it makes it easier to agree that this is a one night stand and nothing more. It makes it easier for the person charging not to fall in love and become a clingy bitch because there is an agreement that that is not to take place since she is being compensated. The only way it really changes things in a bad way is for people who have been brainwashed to think that being a raging slut is good and being a whore is bad.
So if a women decides she's in a mod and wants to get laid, and decides that of all the guys she sees as options at the moment I'm the one she wants, I am to tell her what? That she needs to pay me for my services because my services are worth more than free? Or I should offer her money (and risk her being offended that I think of her as a whore) because her pussy is worth more than free? I'm confused. It would SEEM - please correct me if I'm wrong - that you're saying her pussy is worth more than my cock, so I should have to pay. Hmm. I see a problem there. Do you? Tell ya' what - why don't we call it even - I would enjoy fucking her no strings attached, and she would enjoy it too - even trade? I like that, and the girls I've had one nighters with did too. By all means, keep not doing it that way - your prerogative. Kindly allow others to have theirs as well.
3. you broke your OWN steroetype, that is whats wrong. While i highly highly highly doubt you are attractive, its ridiculous of you to say that only ugly men frequent sex workers when you yourself frequent sex workers and claim you are attractive. Sorry i just dont see physically attractive men frequenting a forum for strippers. While attractive men do go to strip clubs they dont seem to get so obsessive about it to the point that they would be reading stripper forums all day long.
I never said ONLY unattractive people frequent those places. I said that hookers don't often get to choose only people they are attracted to or WANT to fuck in those places, because a large percentage of the clientele are people who have a harder time "getting any" in the outside world. As for personally insulting me with your little implications reagrding my appearance - LMAO. Thin whatever you want. I'm not God's git to women, but I get plenty of attention, believe me. I'm not naturally conceited, but when you are told how attractive you are enough times by complete strangers as compared to others - some who het it more, some less - you get a feel for where you fall. I bet you know where you fall in relation to other women, yes? If you really want to lay it all on the line, ask those members here who know me personally. I really don't care. As for why I frequent the boards - well, let's see - my fiancee is a dancer and a member here. Her best friend - who also rents a room from us - is a dancer, though not a member here that I know of. My ex was a dancer for years. I have frequented SC's for years because I enjoy them. So I guess what you're really saying is that all the "custies" on this board are ugly and pathetic, otherwise they wouldn't be here. Hear that guys?
4. Nice guys dont fuck any girl who throws her pussy at them. Your idea of nice is clearly not the same as mine. I know plenty of nice guys, they all have standards and would be weirded out if girls just threw themselves at them like that, not only that but they would have so little respect for girls like that that they wouldnt even want to go anywhere near them, much less fuck them. If it bothers him so much then why doesnt he fucking stop being a freaking dick??? Yes I know women throw themselves at men sometimes. Sane and kind men understand that these women have issues and dont take advantage of them. Bob does, thats cruel. If i ever "throw myself" at someone is because i want a relationship. If I wanted dick that wasn't going to love me or even LIKE me then id just use a dildo.
See above comments and then some. Know what? You can have standards and still have one night stands. You can have standards and be polyamorous or even a bit of a slut (I neither deny the title or find offense in it anymore). YOUR PERSONAL AVERSION to this behavior has NOT A DAMNED THING TO DO with anyone else, so STOP TELLING US WE'RE WRONG. Guys who have one nighters are not all assholes any more than women who have them (without charging for it - OMFG!) are bitches. You can't get this through your head, can you? I really hate to break it to you, but YOU ARE NOT THE ALL-KNOWING GODDESS OF WHO'S THINKING WHAT WHEN THEY GET LAID. You are actually wrong in many of your blanket assumptions, because YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYONE ELSES THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS. I know you don't, 'cuz if you did, you wouldn't spout all this BS.
If Marvel girl and Mediocrity like one night stands so much i am very surprised they are not currently hookers. Again, regardless of looks, everyone basically feels the same, and if your standards are so low that you dont even need love or chemistry to fuck someone, why not be a hooker?
I'll let them tear into you for this, LMAO. Since your short term memory seems to be suffering (actually, that might explain a few things... Hmm...), I'll give you a quick reminder: Marvel HAS been a prostitute, said so openly, and Mediocrity has repeatedly stated her position on this. YOU are the one with the hangups sweetheart. Nobody is telling you to change how you handle yourself, now STOP TRYING TO TELL US HOW TO HANDLE OURS.
yoda57us
08-18-2009, 05:38 PM
Contrary to popular belief, women who adopt prostitution as a profession do not enjoy sex. They see it as some boring chore and as a result they want to get compensated for doing this.
Dude, you have no clue. Have you ever posted anything here that wasn't a generalization of a stereotype that you read somewhere?
hockeybobby
08-18-2009, 05:58 PM
I resent the unattractive male stripperweb member remark. I'm dead sexy if I do say so myself:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vrZYcFmsVPE/SX0WOeEPU-I/AAAAAAAAAfc/h1tzBRxjgYU/s400/Fat+Bastard.JPG
Almost Jaded
08-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Yor Hawt!
Cyril
08-18-2009, 08:02 PM
Dude, you have no clue. Have you ever posted anything here that wasn't a generalization of a stereotype that you read somewhere?
Yes I have.
Almost Jaded
08-18-2009, 08:45 PM
So, just 'cuz...
Cyril - The quote I sigged, followed by your statement that you see things from a different perspective because you're NOT in the biz and have an "outside the box" view...
Explain. 'cuz I can't seem to reconcile "I see things from a dancers perspective" with "I have a unique perspective because I don't go to clubs, know people who work in them, or work in the biz". Doesn't compute.
Cyril
08-18-2009, 09:01 PM
So, just 'cuz...
Cyril - The quote I sigged, followed by your statement that you see things from a different perspective because you're NOT in the biz and have an "outside the box" view...
Explain. 'cuz I can't seem to reconcile "I see things from a dancers perspective" with "I have a unique perspective because I don't go to clubs, know people who work in them, or work in the biz". Doesn't compute.
It is natural to see things from the perspective of someone you adore.
House gets a cut from a dancer's income because of the logic, house invested some effort that resulted in that income. I believe we should apply the same logic, a dancer should get a cut from the cover charges and alcohol sales which are clearly results of the dancer's effort.
Elvia
08-18-2009, 09:05 PM
Just because you like the idea of strippers doesn't mean you understand us or our situations. That does not just naturally follow.
xdamage
08-18-2009, 09:10 PM
It is natural to see things from the perspective of someone you adore.
It is natural to idealize things in our minds and adore our idealization, or to try and control others until they fit our idealization. That is what we people do. Actually loving someone requires really understanding them, which means LISTENING... at the end of which then you get to decide if you adore them, and you may not once you see the full truth of them.
Does this apply to you? Yes, because you adore "Strippers" A job title. An idealization, not the actual people, each of which are entirely and utterly different human beings.
Almost Jaded
08-18-2009, 09:23 PM
It is natural to TRY and see things from the perspective of someone you adore - and even then, it's neither completely natural nor likely that you'll succeed, depending on PoV, experiences, etc. And that's for ONE person, not a whole group.
If you were to say, for example - "I adore strippers and believe as a business person that the industry mistreats them and is unfair to them", you wouldn't catch flak - all of those statements can be shown to be personal preferences/opinions/PoV's to which you are entitled.
But you still didn't answer my Q. Your statements contradict one another. Either you see things from their PoV, or from a completely unique one. Pick.
Cyril
08-18-2009, 09:48 PM
It is natural to TRY and see things from the perspective of someone you adore - and even then, it's neither completely natural nor likely that you'll succeed, depending on PoV, experiences, etc. And that's for ONE person, not a whole group.
If you were to say, for example - "I adore strippers and believe as a business person that the industry mistreats them and is unfair to them", you wouldn't catch flak - all of those statements can be shown to be personal preferences/opinions/PoV's to which you are entitled.
But you still didn't answer my Q. Your statements contradict one another. Either you see things from their PoV, or from a completely unique one. Pick.
When I see things, I keep following in mine:
- Is the environment conducive to strippers realizing their full potential?
- Are their safety guaranteed?
- Are they forced to part with part of their money (e.g., tip out) they should not?
- Is club recognizing their effort which brings in customers and generates revenue?
In this business there are three perspectives:
a) PLs' perspective
b) Clubs' perspective
c) Strippers' perspective
When I answer the questions above, I keep the interest of strippers in my mind. That is why, I say I see things from their perspective. If I still did not answer your question then we will try some other time because my sleeping pills have overtaken and I am feeling sleepy.
xdamage
08-18-2009, 09:56 PM
^^^You never actually go to SCs nor are you a club owner so these concerns are all just fantasy in your head, and provide them with nothing of actual benefit. But by utterly ignoring their points of view here on these forums you do actual (real, not fantasy in your head) harm on some level. Start with that.
Cyril
08-18-2009, 10:55 PM
^^^You never actually go to SCs nor are you a club owner so these concerns are all just fantasy in your head, and provide them with nothing of actual benefit. But by utterly ignoring their points of view here on these forums you do actual (real, not fantasy in your head) harm on some level. Start with that.
This post is absurd for it does not counter any of the points made by me. It just harps on the same old tune "Cyril does not go to the club". I reject the spirit of this post.