View Full Version : Conversation starters- FROM a customer
Earl_the_Pearl
09-01-2009, 03:00 AM
I know which club you're at, GoreanTX, does this mean there's a gay manager or that he's going to kick the guy out!!?::);) If it's the manager I think it is, the guy is getting a thrashing.
Yep, that's him!
So the dancers hate it when the PL uses code words but if the PL asks straight out he gets a thrashing.
Now I understand, a PL is to open his wallet and when it is empty leave as soon as possible.
chris91
09-01-2009, 03:28 AM
So the dancers hate it when the PL uses code words but if the PL asks straight out he gets a thrashing.
Now I understand, a PL is to open his wallet and when it is empty leave as soon as possible.
You know, there is a good reason why people get pissed of when you ask for sex in strip clubs. It's that you are asking for something that strip clubs are not meant to provide.
Imagine that you work at burger king, and every day 40 different people come in and try to order pizza. You tell them that burger king does not serve pizza, but they keep coming and asking. Some of them even get angry or ask you over and over insisting that you must serve pizza because you work at a restaurant. It's fucking annoying.
Now imagine that you could get fired and go to jail if you did comply with the requests for pizza. Also, imagine that there is a perfectly good pizza hut right down the road, but still people want to get it from burger king. Imagine dealing with that kind of mind boggling stupidity. It makes no sense at all for you to continue trying to get pizza from burger king.
I suggest that if you don't want to get thrashed, you take your euphemisms and your wallet over to the local whore house.
Seriously, if you insist on asking strippers to be your prostitutes, then you are just going to have to make peace with the fact that a lot of people are going to think you're a douchebag.
luvbuniz
09-01-2009, 03:59 AM
:O Guys asking for extras really annoy me. Sometimes I just blow air in their ear and say that's your blowjob.
As for conversation starters, a good stripper can start a convo about anything. Sometimes it's a watch that they're wearing, tattoo, their favorite football team etc. On slow nights, I use convo as a way to ascertain interest and money potential. :D
Earl_the_Pearl
09-01-2009, 04:12 AM
I suggest that if you don't want to get thrashed, you take your euphemisms and your wallet over to the local whore house.
Oh a PL will be trashed no matter what he does because it is the way of the stripper. Not to worry I haven't been in a club for several months.
I don't ask for extras but let me tell you something; more "dancers" than not grab my dick trying to make a sale. The truth be told most "dancers" can't dance and have no concept of show business. If burlesque came back 98% of the "dancers" would be out of work.
xdamage
09-01-2009, 05:50 AM
...Also, imagine that there is a perfectly good pizza hut right down the road, but still people want to get it from burger king. ...
I agree with your post, except this part which has been a said so many times over the years, but I still don't understand where it comes from.
In the USA there are no good/legal pizza huts down the road.
There are separate threads going asking if there should be, but in the USA there are no legal brothels or escorts anywhere except Nevada, where the brothels are kept 60+ miles out of the city, and due to a loophole in RI, prostitution in SCs is sort of legal.
Now even if there was a pizza hut there would be guys going into SCs and massage parlors looking for pizza, but I suspect one reason so many do it in the SCs is they actually feel less likely to get busted then soliciting a random person found at some random location which could be dangerous for dozens of reasons.
Look at it like this. For someone looking for pizza, sure they can walk the back alleys hoping to find some pizza that is not a bust or rip off. The other option is they can walk into burger king and ask to see the secret menu that pretty much everyone knows exists. Seemingly burger king stays in business year after year. Seemingly pizza is being sold and somehow it goes on for years without the place being busted. That kind of says yea, you could get busted or ripped off asking for pizza, but the odds are also pretty good you won't. Those back alleys on the other hand, scary places.
Is it any wonder then that people seeking (and selling) pizza continue to do so in BK?
I'm in favor of legalizing pizza huts but until that happens it is not surprising that customers and extra girls continue to use the SCs to meet/greet/sell.
p.s. FWIW there are almost no BKs left in the Netherlands since pizza hut sells burgers too, so if you really put them down the road, side by side, over 2 decades, it may not turn out ideally either, but I'm still in favor of allowing people to buy/sell pizza if it can be made into a safe business.
goreantx
09-01-2009, 06:35 AM
There you go, customers. Walk into a SC and ask all the dancers if they sell pizza. Then you'll know who reads SW. :-*
Donovan28
09-01-2009, 06:40 AM
I agree with your post, except this part which has been a said so many times over the years, but I still don't understand where it comes from.
In the USA there are no good/legal pizza huts down the road.
There are separate threads going asking if there should be, but in the USA there are no legal brothels or escorts anywhere except Nevada, where the brothels are kept 60+ miles out of the city, and due to a loophole in RI, prostitution in SCs is sort of legal.
Now even if there was a pizza hut there would be guys going into SCs and massage parlors looking for pizza, but I suspect one reason so many do it in the SCs is they actually feel less likely to get busted then soliciting a random person found at some random location which could be dangerous for dozens of reasons.
Look at it like this. For someone looking for pizza, sure they can walk the back alleys hoping to find some pizza that is not a bust or rip off. The other option is they can walk into burger king and ask to see the secret menu that pretty much everyone knows exists. Seemingly burger king stays in business year after year. Seemingly pizza is being sold and somehow it goes on for years without the place being busted. That kind of says yea, you could get busted or ripped off asking for pizza, but the odds are also pretty good you won't. Those back alleys on the other hand, scary places.
Is it any wonder then that people seeking (and selling) pizza continue to do so in BK?
I'm in favor of legalizing pizza huts but until that happens it is not surprising that customers and extra girls continue to use the SCs to meet/greet/sell.
p.s. FWIW there are almost no BKs left in the Netherlands since pizza hut sells burgers too, so if you really put them down the road, side by side, over 2 decades, it may not turn out ideally either, but I'm still in favor of allowing people to buy/sell pizza if it can be made into a safe business.
Man, you guys are making me hungry. I want some REAL pizza, but it's breakfast time, so it's oatmeal...
This is starting to belong over in the 'legalizing prostitution' thread.
I have a buddy who just got back from Amsterdam and he says SCs are almost non existent over there. I think I like our system better than having brothels everywhere. The tease is still fun and guys who want the 'please' can find it.
In context of this thread, no conversation would really be needed if "Burger King" sold 'pizza'. You'd just take out your money!
Until that happened (unlikely to be soon in this country, but you never know the way things are going in Liberal-land, Washington, DC.:O) I do enjoy the tease and the conversation.
goreantx
09-01-2009, 06:44 AM
Until that happened (unlikely to be soon in this country, but you never know the way things are going in Liberal-land, Washington, DC.:O) I do enjoy the tease and the conversation.
I've run into a few Chinese and also businessmen who travel to China who assure me that the government doesn't allow strip clubs...
xdamage
09-01-2009, 07:30 AM
I have a buddy who just got back from Amsterdam and he says SCs are almost non existent over there. I think I like our system better than having brothels everywhere. The tease is still fun and guys who want the 'please' can find it.
They seemingly failed. Prostitution has been legal for such a long time now and the society prides itself on being sexually liberal, there is not much need for SCs since if you want to just be teased you can pay a prostitute to do that too. About the only reason you'd go to a SC is because you have an S.O. that wouldn't trust you with a prostitute to stop at teasing.
In Amsterdam prostitution and live sex shows really do stand side-by-side with what remains of the Strip Clubs (as far as I know, there is just 1 tiny one left); there is no driving an hour out of your way, no going to the seedy part of town involved; it is all within walking distance and all main streamed in the red light district.
SCs/Brothels exist in various geographic divisions in other parts of the world where SCs thrive better in various degrees. It would be a shame f the SCs died here too but possible should our society become as sexually liberal and tolerant as the Netherlands. The "be careful what you wish for" point applies as always, but that future is a ways off if it happens. Anyway.. that possible future aside...
It comes up fairly often here, why don't you guys (and extras girls) go to a brothel? Someone else recently started a ?but I didn't know brothels are illegal? thread. Seemingly I've run into a lot of people, including people on this site, that do not know this. For whatever reason many people believe brothels are available but people just aren't using them. Though it could be the person is coming at it from the PoV of someone in another country where brothels exist - in those countries I fully get the why don't you just go down the street mindset?. But in the USA one reason extra girls and customers are not going to brothels is because they are blatantly illegal (vs SCs where this stuff goes on, on the sly, intermixed with legal activity, seemingly rare that you hear about vice busts).
MarvelGirl
09-01-2009, 09:47 AM
It comes up fairly often here, why don't you guys (and extras girls) go to a brothel? Someone else recently started a ?but I didn't know brothels are illegal? thread. Seemingly I've run into a lot of people, including people on this site, that do not know this. For whatever reason many people believe brothels are available but people just aren't using them. Though it could be the person is coming at it from the PoV of someone in another country where brothels exist - in those countries I fully get the why don't you just go down the street mindset?. But in the USA one reason extra girls and customers are not going to brothels is because they are blatantly illegal (vs SCs where this stuff goes on, on the sly, intermixed with legal activity, seemingly rare that you hear about vice busts).
I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. Having a stripper suck you off for cash in a strip club is just as illegal as going to a brothel and asking a hooker to do it. Escorts are easy to come by in the U.S. and I refuse to believe that there is an adult man willing to ask for a BJ in a strip club who has never heard of a hooker or an escort.
I think it's a power trip pure and simple. I do phone sex part time and I advertise those lines as phone sex with half naked pictures and graphic language.
I also have a line for nutrition and exercise advice. The picture I use on this line is a professional looking headshot. None of the language is flirty or suggestive in any way and there is even a disclaimer that states I will hang up on rude or vulgar callers.
99 out of ever 100 callers on the nutrition line try to get me to do phone sex. I have a higher percentage of callers call for pleasant conversation or advice on my "FUCK MY TIGHT TEEN ASS RAW!" line.
When I won't give the nutrition guys phone sex, they become angry and try to destroy my business by putting terrible reviews about me on the internet. Apparently, I deserve to be destroyed because I won't just randomly cater to their needs on a platform that was not designed for adult entertainment. It's bullshit and it's a power trip, them exerting their superiority over stupid bitch women who should honored to be allowed to handle their dicks.
It's the same thought process as guys who demand sexual services in strip clubs. There are dozens of prominent websites all over the damn internet where you can find women who will come to you and happily slurp down your load for the cost of a couple of lap dances but they would rather try to find a desperate girl having a bad night and coax her into doing something that will make her feel like shit about herself. They don't want sex, they want to demean someone. There is a huge difference.
vmurphy252
09-01-2009, 09:52 AM
^Well, now I want to call "FUCK MY TIGHT TEEN ASS RAW" just to say I did.
xdamage
09-01-2009, 11:19 AM
I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. Having a stripper suck you off for cash in a strip club is just as illegal as going to a brothel and asking a hooker to do it. Escorts are easy to come by in the U.S. and I refuse to believe that there is an adult man willing to ask for a BJ in a strip club who has never heard of a hooker or an escort.
I think it's a power trip pure and simple.
See that is far too black or white for me. Reality for me somewhere in the middle. It is not ALL a power trip, or ALL lack of availability. The thing is we don't know in the USA because we don't give people a legal choice.
The choices they have are:
1.) Enjoy a SC legally (this includes extra girls as well who if I use your logic, "I refuse to believe that an extra girl has never heard she could be an escort" - of course she has heard of that, so have customers, but obviously they have other reasons for not dealing that way, including safety which SCs provide to some degree).
2.) Use the SC illegally (including extras girls)
3.) Escort illegally.
If buyers and sellers are choosing #2 there can be multiple reasons in play at the same time, including a sense of safety. Simplifying it to one reason is almost assuredly wrong.
The best thing to do is ask how well is it working out in societies where there are more choices, like the Netherlands or Australia. It surely will still happen that extra girls remain in SC, along with customers who buy if someone is selling, but if it decreases the frequency that is an improvement.
Because if I accepted that it is purely a power trip, that it is only a black or white matter, then I'd have to follow the logic... which is that NO customer who visits a SC now looking for sex would use a brothel if it was legal and offered next door. Do you believe that? I surely don't. I do believe many still would try in the SCs, but I also believe that some extras girls would also have motivations to work in SCs vs brothels (e.g., for the decreased social stigma), but there are no perfect solutions. Only improvements.
Elvia
09-01-2009, 02:44 PM
You know, there is a good reason why people get pissed of when you ask for sex in strip clubs. It's that you are asking for something that strip clubs are not meant to provide.
Imagine that you work at burger king, and every day 40 different people come in and try to order pizza. You tell them that burger king does not serve pizza, but they keep coming and asking. Some of them even get angry or ask you over and over insisting that you must serve pizza because you work at a restaurant. It's fucking annoying.
Now imagine that you could get fired and go to jail if you did comply with the requests for pizza. Also, imagine that there is a perfectly good pizza hut right down the road, but still people want to get it from burger king. Imagine dealing with that kind of mind boggling stupidity. It makes no sense at all for you to continue trying to get pizza from burger king.
I suggest that if you don't want to get thrashed, you take your euphemisms and your wallet over to the local whore house.
Seriously, if you insist on asking strippers to be your prostitutes, then you are just going to have to make peace with the fact that a lot of people are going to think you're a douchebag.
Save your breath, chris, this is what Earl does-bait dancers with his talk about getting extras in the club, then whine about how PL's can't get any respect anyway, so he might as well continue being a jackass. He's like an unholy cross between the guy who's trolling for extras, and the "but you don't really like me!" crybaby.
chris91
09-01-2009, 03:23 PM
I agree with your post, except this part which has been a said so many times over the years, but I still don't understand where it comes from.
In the USA there are no good/legal pizza huts down the road.
We do have a straight up whore house here. Of course it's not legal, but neither is paying for sex in a strip club. You may as well break the law in a place where you're not going to have to piss a bunch of people off before you get what you want.
If your town does not have a whore house, you can always call an escort service. That's what they are there for.
Let's not pretend like most dudes are too stupid to figure this shit out on their own. They have reasons for seeking prostitutes at strip clubs. They want to check out the merchandise in advance. I get it. Still there is a price to pay for that convenience, and that price amounts to you being treated like an asshole by anyone who is not a prostitute. Dudes are just gonna have to deal with it.
There's also the other option, which is have some damn respect for yourself and quit paying girls for the "privilege" of sticking your dick in their filthy orifices.
chris91
09-01-2009, 03:25 PM
Save your breath, chris, this is what Earl does-bait dancers with his talk about getting extras in the club, then whine about how PL's can't get any respect anyway, so he might as well continue being a jackass. He's like an unholy cross between the guy who's trolling for extras, and the "but you don't really like me!" crybaby.
Yeah, i figured that out after his last post. Boo hoo hoo. You know, I find it strange that dudes who refer to themselves as pathetic losers on this website will complain when a dancer treats them like pathetic losers.
MarvelGirl
09-01-2009, 03:33 PM
See that is far too black or white for me. Reality for me somewhere in the middle. It is not ALL a power trip, or ALL lack of availability. The thing is we don't know in the USA because we don't give people a legal choice.
We sure do where I live so you're not going to convince me otherwise. A guy who walks into a Las Vegas stripclub because he wants to pay a stripper to suck his dick instead of one of those "filthy whores" who work at the legal ranches or order up one of the thousands of girls advertised on the strip on little cards and the sides of buses has plenty of options. He just doesn't care about offending women or trying to force his own needs on others.
Sorry you disagree but you're not going to change my mind. They are rapists who are too cowardly to actually rape a woman so they opt for manipulation. Utter pieces of shit.
As for extras girls, they are often as dumb as a bag of wet shit. I've heard girls talk about giving sexual favors for rock bottom prices but then they get offended and asshurt about the suggestion that they just become escorts or prostitutes and charge a reasonable wage for it. They're in the same group as the guy. Oh, don't compare us to dirty, disgusting whores and johns! We simply want to trade money for sex, not deal in disgusting prostitution.
Bunch of fucking hypocrites, just like the guys who call my non sex phone line. "I don't want to have some nasty whore beat me off over the phone, I want a nice girl who doesn't do things like that to suddenly become a hooker just for me because I am just SOOOOO fucking special!"
xdamage
09-01-2009, 03:39 PM
We do have a straight up whore house here. Of course it's not legal, but neither is paying for sex in a strip club. You may as well break the law in a place where you're not going to have to piss a bunch of people off before you get what you want.
I think this is why there is disagreement, what is seemingly crystal clear to me.
People are not altruists. They are not really worried if they piss a bunch of strangers off. So what? It has no impact on them. They typically choose whatever is in their own best interest. It really is a non factor unless it impacts them. Like if you beat them they would care. If you are just pissed inside but everyone looks the other way in SCs it is going to have virtually no impact on most people.
The extras girl might even know it pisses her co-workers off but if she is still doing extras clearly she has reasoned that it is better money or safer then doing it as an escort.
What does have an impact on them is going to jail. A blatant whorehouse might well be high on the police radar and an easy bust. But going to a SC or massage parlor that has been in a business for a few years, probably not. In fact arguably if there is a lot of prostitution going on, odds are the police are mostly looking the other way.
It's sort of like why do people go to raves and buy and do drugs in the open? It's just as legally wrong as buying it in a dark alley and doing it in private. But it is a different setting. Many people are seemingly doing it. The risks are different. For the extras girl she is at least in a VIP room where if some psycho did go nuts she'd have help. For the customer, odds are a pimp is not going to smash him over the head in the VIP and take all his money.
I understand it would be better for dancers if it didn't happen in the clubs. I back that. Just saying if it was legal, and really next door (not an hour+ away in some seedy or far away section of town) you might well see a bunch of the sex for money move to a legal venue. Right now people mostly don't have that choice and what remains is pure underground or done in a risky private setting that could go bad.
Elvia
09-01-2009, 03:40 PM
I think MG is right about a lot of these guys. Too many of them just do not peacefully and respectfully accept a "no." And now that I think about it, many of the guys who have propositioned me in the club were being downright cruel before they did so.
Illegal or not, it's really not hard to find actual escorts. It's advertised everywhere.
xdamage
09-01-2009, 03:51 PM
We sure do where I live so you're not going to convince me otherwise. A guy who walks into a Las Vegas stripclub because he wants to pay a stripper to suck his dick instead of one of those "filthy whores" who work at the legal ranches or order up one of the thousands of girls advertised on the strip on little cards and the sides of buses has plenty of options. He just doesn't care about offending women or trying to force his own needs on others.
This is why I wish they'd place the brothels right down there side by side with the SCs in Vegas (not an hour out), but allow them to be zoned side by side. And at the same time, cleanup the SCs and kick the escorts out of the hotels. Make it a very expensive charge for ignoring prostitution in the clubs.
But Vegas is weird. There is a legal option but for some reason they've decided to keep the brothels at a significant length from the city center where people hang out and party. The hotels also knowing allow escorts to wander the lounges and bars which further leaves tourists unsure what the laws allow (locals presumably just take advantage?)
It's stupid and if they'd move the brothels down next door the SCs and crack down on the dividing lines I'm 100% for it.
But part of the problem is the clubs and employees and ICs in the clubs would need to change too. The clubs remain unwilling to self-enforce the no-extras law, so word gets out that they are essentially brothels. Factor in drunk people, people who are not very smart or desperate for money, and a bunch of other factors and I think the situation is perpetuated both by a set of a customers and extras girls, and a general unwillingness for anyone to blow the whistle who is on the inside
xdamage
09-01-2009, 04:05 PM
...They have reasons for seeking prostitutes at strip clubs. They want to check out the merchandise in advance. I get it. Still there is a price to pay for that convenience, and that price amounts to you being treated like an asshole by anyone who is not a prostitute. Dudes are just gonna have to deal with it.
BTW I had to chuckle a bit but your right that is factor. Arguably one reason that SCs have failed in Amsterdam. You can go window shopping like at a mall which takes much of the risk out of it for customers.
There's also the other option, which is have some damn respect for yourself and quit paying girls for the "privilege" of sticking your dick in their filthy orifices.
Don't know about this. I don't use prostitutes for personal reasons. Not my thing. I don't sleep around. I'd rather have the connection over random sex. But I also don't care if people do either. As long as they are not hurting me, what they choose to do for gifts, pleasure, or money is not my problem. That is between them. A lot of people have a lot of sex with a lot of partners. Does that make them filthy? Do I care? I do understand your key point though, why you are pissed about extras in the club, and that's fine, but it can be done without judging prostitutes. FWIW, a lot of people look down on dancers as filthy - doubtful you appreciate that, and I surely don't. We can extend others the same courtesy to choose as they will, as long as their choices don't directly harm us.
goreantx
09-01-2009, 05:17 PM
I've got it!
Conversation starter:
"I bet you girls just hate guys that ask you to fuck in VIP, I think it's disgusting and I feel bad for you girls."
chris91
09-02-2009, 03:11 AM
Don't know about this. I don't use prostitutes for personal reasons. Not my thing. I don't sleep around. I'd rather have the connection over random sex. But I also don't care if people do either. As long as they are not hurting me, what they choose to do for gifts, pleasure, or money is not my problem. That is between them. A lot of people have a lot of sex with a lot of partners. Does that make them filthy? Do I care? I do understand your key point though, why you are pissed about extras in the club, and that's fine, but it can be done without judging prostitutes. FWIW, a lot of people look down on dancers as filthy - doubtful you appreciate that, and I surely don't. We can extend others the same courtesy to choose as they will, as long as their choices don't directly harm us.
I know that a lot of people think that dancers are filthy, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to think that anyone else is dirty. Girls that do bare back whatevers for money in the club are the reason that people think all dancers are filthy. It's their fault, because they are filthy.
When it comes to prostitutes that work outside of the club, they've chosen a job that exposes them to all kinds of diseases. It's a dirty job. I don't think it makes them bad people, but I would certainly never fuck one of them knowing the high probability that they'd been exposed to herpes 92875097 more times than the average person. The same goes for people who slut around all over town, and johns who pay to fuck strangers in spite of the risk. It's dirty.
xdamage
09-02-2009, 08:42 AM
I know that a lot of people think that dancers are filthy, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to think that anyone else is dirty. Girls that do bare back whatevers for money in the club are the reason that people think all dancers are filthy. It's their fault, because they are filthy.
When it comes to prostitutes that work outside of the club, they've chosen a job that exposes them to all kinds of diseases. It's a dirty job. I don't think it makes them bad people, but I would certainly never fuck one of them knowing the high probability that they'd been exposed to herpes 92875097 more times than the average person. The same goes for people who slut around all over town, and johns who pay to fuck strangers in spite of the risk. It's dirty.
No I get that. People instinctively know that if someone is having a lot of unprotected sexual contact they are statistically more likely to have a STD (aka we use the word "filthy" when we think of disease). The worry about getting a disease makes me nervous as hell too but for whatever reasons, some people seemingly worry less and take the risks (both selling and buying) and the risks of getting a disease from a lap dance vs sex is, well, dramatically non-comparable (though not everyone is so well informed). But some sex workers do use protection too so are they still dirty? Anyway...
But back to the main point. It would be better if there really were legal brothels available to people that want to sell and buy. And I don't mean in the seedy parts of town or an hours away in the desert. I mean at least as accessible as the Strip Clubs and Massage Parlors. That gives people the choices they seemingly want anyway. Then they really would have no excuse for seeking in SCs and it really would be an option available down the street.
goreantx
09-02-2009, 08:44 AM
really would be an option available down the street.
They're walking all up and down the street. Just pull up and ask how much!
princessjas
09-02-2009, 08:51 AM
They're walking all up and down the street. Just pull up and ask how much!
I think he probably meant a legal option. I hate extras girls as much as the next dancer and really despise being ask for extras by guys...but I do get x's point.
The risk is much less for the whores and their johns in the SC. Sucks, but it's true. That's probably why they regularly try to invade the cleaner clubs, because well, those clubs are less likely to be busted. The notorious whore houses get more flak from police and that ups the risk.
Unfortunately, it's just something that we have to deal with as dancers. :(
xdamage
09-02-2009, 09:00 AM
They're walking all up and down the street. Just pull up and ask how much!
Haha except... the random girl on the street could be undercover cop (chances of a long time dancer being one is much less and customers know that); and you could end up getting mugged when you go back with them to a hotel room; and those women who are doing that are also putting themselves at risk by engaging in sex in private places where some psycho might rape them vs in a VIP room where there are people nearby ;)
Repeatedly ignoring these variables isn't going to help understand why people are doing what they are doing. They are factors in the dynamics of the situation. These factors don't go away by wishing they will or utterly ignoring them because they don't align with what we want to believe about the situation.
The way to address these factors is by facing them head on. So let's take those risk out of it so people who want to do these exchanges have an outlet that does not have those risks.
So if there were legal brothels where sex workers and sex buyers could do this exchange legally and safely, would you still recommend soliciting random street walkers for sex? I sure wouldn't. Most of the risks above would still remain. I'd still recommend either the brothel, or if the law allowed it, between adults who had an established relationship.
laurcon
09-02-2009, 09:00 AM
They're walking all up and down the street. Just pull up and ask how much!
Just make sure you're not in broward county, fla. i was watching that "women cops" show on TLC the other day and this undercover chick was bustin johns on the street left and right, even got a doctor.
i hate extras in the club just like i hate pot being illegal, but right now shit's not changing so i just have to deal. i'd totally prefer prostitution legal and out of my club, i don't care if we lose some business or all of it.
but i'm not so much whining about extras as i am about earl talking about asking for them on this board. we have to deal with it enough at work >:(
also i don't know how to multiquote but the other thing you said gore about starting a convo with something like "you girls must get asked for sex in the VIP all the time, i think its disgusting and i feel bad for you"
sorry that's not the exact quote but basically all there.
my point is that i can't stand the idea of anyone feeling bad for me. if a guy said that in any context i'd immediately get kinda pissed and be like "well i can handle it buddy, i don't need your pity but thanks!"
just my kneejerk reaction i guess.
MarvelGirl
09-02-2009, 10:58 AM
Haha except... the random girl on the street could be undercover cop (chances of a long time dancer being one is much less and customers know that); and you could end up getting mugged when you go back with them to a hotel room; and those women who are doing that are also putting themselves at risk by engaging in sex in private places where some psycho might rape them vs in a VIP room where there are people nearby ;)
Repeatedly ignoring these variables isn't going to help understand why people are doing what they are doing.
Why do YOU keep ignoring the variables? There are literally dozens of escort review boards in the United States for this very reason. You can find a girl you like who has been working for a couple of years and has hundreds of reviews from other Johns proving that she is not a cop, that she will not mug you, etc.
But then she'd be dirty right? That's what it all comes back to. Douchebag guys who are too good to pay a hooker for sex, they'd rather pay a non hooker for sex. ::) It's the same for the girls too, they keep it in the club so that they don't have to face the ugly truth that they are prostitutes.
It's a lack of personal responsibility. I'm not going to give any consideration to a group of adults who walk around with their fingers in their ears screaming "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" as an excuse for engaging in criminal activity.
xdamage
09-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Why do YOU keep ignoring the variables? There are literally dozens of escort review boards in the United States for this very reason. You can find a girl you like who has been working for a couple of years and has hundreds of reviews from other Johns proving that she is not a cop, that she will not mug you, etc.
But then she'd be dirty right? That's what it all comes back to. Douchebag guys who are too good to pay a hooker for sex, they'd rather pay a non hooker for sex. ::) It's the same for the girls too, they keep it in the club so that they don't have to face the ugly truth that they are prostitutes.
I think your right some of it is due to facing that they are prostitutes, but no that is not all of it.
I don't buy things from craigslist, ebay, etc. because I am not super trusting ;) My dad was scammed pretty bad on ebay, reviews can be faked.
Also law enforcement can be monitoring that stuff and increasingly admit they are. Kind of like drug dealers dealing online - it's kind of dumb to deal that way since you're leaving a huge paper trail. If I was going to buy drugs I certainly wouldn't associate myself with such high profile sellers.
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
09-02-2009, 03:13 PM
Whether we, as dancers like it or not.....
Last time my SO and I tried to call an escort, we got royally ripped off and screwed over. We lost money and she called the cops on us...total scam.
Almost every time we have gone to an SC, we have received extras, without asking for anything, not once. Is that preferable to doing what we want in the privacy of a home with another consenting adult (who is a professional and won't create emotional drama). No.
But the fact remains, its a lot easier, more cost effective, and less risky to get sexual action from strippers. Of course, this is the area we live in, some places differ. I will never, ever ever again call a private escort, because I almost went to jail the last time I did. There is no vice department in my city, and cops seldomly come into the clubs. They DO, however, work really hard to keep street prostitution down, which is what they need to be doing.
So its also hard to find a street prostitute in this town, which is a good thing, IMO. That leads your "john" back to private escorts, who are often ROB...or making the right connection with the right girl in the SC. And the girls are willing to do it.
Just a fact. De-criminalization is the best solution.
What's this thread about again? Oh yeah...why does the custy need to worry about starting conversations. That's the stripper's job. Just speak to each other like normal fucking human beings in a social situation. That's what you are....that's what the best custies and the best dancers do. They don't make each other feel like customer and provider. They don't let it on that there is a "game" being played. They just enjoy the time together. Its the dancer's responsibility to keep her mind on the money...and its just plain human decency for the customer NOT to be a fucking jackass when he is being asked to pay up.
TO ADD: many of the legit providers in my town require screening, and will not set appointments with couples. That's why its not that easy to get with a reviewed and legit escort.
xdamage
09-02-2009, 03:40 PM
Whether we, as dancers like it or not.....
Last time my SO and I tried to call an escort, we got royally ripped off and screwed over. We lost money and she called the cops on us...total scam.
Almost every time we have gone to an SC, we have received extras, without asking for anything, not once. Is that preferable to doing what we want in the privacy of a home with another consenting adult (who is a professional and won't create emotional drama). No.
But the fact remains, its a lot easier, more cost effective, and less risky to get sexual action from strippers. Of course, this is the area we live in, some places differ. I will never, ever ever again call a private escort, because I almost went to jail the last time I did. There is no vice department in my city, and cops seldomly come into the clubs. They DO, however, work really hard to keep street prostitution down, which is what they need to be doing.
So its also hard to find a street prostitute in this town, which is a good thing, IMO. That leads your "john" back to private escorts, who are often ROB...or making the right connection with the right girl in the SC. And the girls are willing to do it.
Just a fact. De-criminalization is the best solution.
I'm not a great believer in conspiracy theories but I wonder if LE has an arrangement with the club owners around here.
I did just read about the bust of a local underground whorehouse (what fun reading for the community of do gooders!) but you just don't hear about clubs in the city being busted.
Yet it happens but pretty much every time I've been to a club over the last few years some girl is offering extras, and you hear about it from the guys here.
That could all be cleaned up but seemingly people are making money the way things are so it continues.
bem401
09-02-2009, 04:22 PM
I'm not a great believer in conspiracy theories but I wonder if LE has an arrangement with the club owners around here.
Maybe I'm jaded because of where I'm from, but do you really have to wonder about such things?
goreantx
09-02-2009, 04:27 PM
also i don't know how to multiquote but the other thing you said gore about starting a convo with something like "you girls must get asked for sex in the VIP all the time, i think its disgusting and i feel bad for you"
sorry that's not the exact quote but basically all there.
my point is that i can't stand the idea of anyone feeling bad for me. if a guy said that in any context i'd immediately get kinda pissed and be like "well i can handle it buddy, i don't need your pity but thanks!"
just my kneejerk reaction i guess.
I was joking about how this thread has turned into one big debate over that topic. :-X
yoda57us
09-02-2009, 04:31 PM
I'm not a great believer in conspiracy theories but I wonder if LE has an arrangement with the club owners around here.
"Arrangement"? Probably not. It's more of a Sgt Schultz "I see nothing!" approach.
Make no mistake, local LE knows what is going on in the clubs in their jurisdiction. Sometimes extras are allowed to go on and sometimes they are not but it is never a case of the cops not knowing what is going on.
xdamage
09-02-2009, 04:33 PM
Maybe I'm jaded because of where I'm from, but do you really have to wonder about such things?
;D
Hey, I don't have insider info, and besides we all know everyone follows the letter of the law. Club owners would never look the other way. Dancers stop at precisely the point the law requires in their associated communities. Customers never ask for more then what the law allows. LE keeps their shoes shined, shirts pressed and makes sure everyone follows the rules precisely as written. :angel:
bem401
09-02-2009, 04:33 PM
"Arrangement"? Probably not. It's more of a Sgt Schultz "I see nothing!" approach.
Unless they're patronizing the club while off-duty. LOL.
yoda57us
09-02-2009, 04:50 PM
;D
Hey, I don't have insider info, and besides we all know everyone follows the letter of the law. Club owners would never look the other way. Dancers stop at precisely the point the law requires in their associated communities. Customers never ask for more then what the law allows. LE keeps their shoes shined, shirts pressed and makes sure everyone follows the rules precisely as written. :angel:
You Betcha!
Unless they're patronizing the club while off-duty. LOL.
Well, cops are people too...
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 12:46 AM
You know, there is a good reason why people get pissed of when you ask for sex in strip clubs. It's that you are asking for something that strip clubs are not meant to provide.
Without starting a fracas I'd like you to stop and consider it is the market that decides what something is going to have to supply if it wants to remain in business.
If everyone wants extras and no one wants traditional lap dances than strip-clubs have to provide extras or they go out of business. Now I am NOT saying that ought to be the case and the same would be true the other way around: If customers were offended by clubs that had extras available in them than the places that sold extras would have to change or go out of business.
I'm not trying to start something, I'm just expressing a natural fact about how marketplaces work.
Earl_the_Pearl
09-10-2009, 01:00 AM
If everyone wants extras and no one wants traditional lap dances that strip-clubs have to provide extras or they go out of business.
One of your favorite clubs Pumps is the most extra adverse club I know of. That is where dancers should work if they just want to dance. Of course Pumps type clubs are not the norm so dancers have to find their way to Bottoms Up. I never go to Pumps BTW.
Dancers want to be able to hustle PLs; they should expect some adverse reaction from the hustled.
I would not mind if every club was extra free and every PL knew it. If any think the clubs are empty now wait until that happens.
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 01:15 AM
I think it's a power trip pure and simple.
I will very candidly and with all respect and politeness tell you that you are wrong, at least in many cases I am aware of including my own.
I will tell you precisely why I seek sexual services outside the club from strippers and it has nothing to do with power trips. It has simply to do with educated consuming.
Over the years I have been to escorts, independent providers and agencies. I have found them to be lacking. They see too many clients and their services are rigidly timed and the providers frequently have little or no "presence" in the session. Its like having sex with a parking meter. You put in a couple of coins and you know precisely when time is going to be up. That simply doesn't do it for me.
There is a very unusual thing about strippers and you see examples of it on these pages over and over again. Many dancers refuse to see themselves as sex workers, let alone providers of any type. Therefore if they can't see themselves as "working girls" they can't very well see me as a john. So when I "date" dancers, and I have dated many of them, we go out as friends having gotten to know each other first in the club. As friends, or "friends", however you care to see it, we exchange favors. There are nice meals shared together, sometimes other forms of entertainment, shopping, etc, and we have sex - like friends of opposite sexes sometimes do.
Understand these are not the "sting the guy along" affairs you sometimes see mentioned here from time to time. Underneath the surface both parties know what is expected of each other and neither is willing to settle for less than full measure and since fair dealing is the order of the day quid pro quo is assured in both directions.
So in dating, or "dating" [again as the reader sees fit], dancers I am seeing a woman that is frequently better looking than many providers, certainly sees less men than most providers, and treats me like a lover and not a client because to do less than that means she has to admit to herself she is a, pardon the expression, prostitute.
So it simply makes sense all the way around that IF I can manage to date strippers I do so because the results yield a profoundly better experience.
And that is why I do it, because its better not because there is any sort of power trip. I am certain I am not alone in my reasoning and that many men who seek sexual services outside the club with dancers do so for the same reasons as I. Should I need to point out that I only continue to do it because there are dancers who have no problem entertaining my advances? If they didn't, being a practical and pragmatic man, I'd have no recourse but to stop.
Just being honest for the purposes of giving pause for thought, and again not trying to ruffle any feathers.
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 01:23 AM
We do have a straight up whore house here. Of course it's not legal, but neither is paying for sex in a strip club. You may as well break the law in a place where you're not going to have to piss a bunch of people off before you get what you want.
You might if when you get what you want it is far superior to what you can get elsewhere.
Let's use XDamages analogy.
If I can get X% of cooks to go "off menu" to make me a superior hamburger at Pizza Hut than I can get at Burger King why wouldn't I continue to seek out hamburgers at Pizza Hut?
It would seem foolish for a smart person to settle for less from another supplier simply because they advertise those specific services as being their stock and trade. Why not get the best available to you, even if it comes from a supplier who doesn't advertise those specific services as their main business?
And again it only works because I can find what I am seeking out on a fairly consistent basis. If I couldn't there would be no point in wasting the energy in trying.
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 01:38 AM
One of your favorite clubs Pumps is the most extra adverse club I know of. That is where dancers should work if they just want to dance. Of course Pumps type clubs are not the norm so dancers have to find their way to Bottoms Up. I never go to Pumps BTW.
I like Pumps for precisely what it is, a couples friendly go-go style club that serves alcohol and has little or no hustle factor. Its a nice place to simply hang out and see pretty people. The dancers who work there make a decent nights tips because customers see the club for what it is and appreciate it, and them.
Dancers want to be able to hustle PLs; they should expect some adverse reaction from the hustled.
People are mirrors and reflect back what light, or other things, they are given.
Look at the word itself: Hustle. In the context used it implies negative activity. A "get over". So why would someone be surprised if one group of people doing business in a place meet their equal and opposite force in the other group occupying the same place?
Birds of a feather, no?
It is really quite simple when you boil it down to its essence. Due to the accumulated negative activities of management, dancers and customers each gets what they deserve out of the others. IOW, dancers get the kind of customers they deserve and customers the kind of dancers they have coming. Strip-clubs are what we ALL make out of them. If enough people wanted them to be different, they would be.
Quite frankly I think strip-clubs would benefit immeasurably from a lot less hustling and a lot more simple square dealing on the part of management, dancers and customers alike. That's just my opinion.
I would not mind if every club was extra free and every PL knew it. If any think the clubs are empty now wait until that happens.
Oh, I don't know about that. Though the only way to be sure would be for it to actually happen and I don't see that coming down the pike any time soon.
chris91
09-10-2009, 03:00 AM
Without starting a fracas I'd like you to stop and consider it is the market that decides what something is going to have to supply if it wants to remain in business.
If everyone wants extras and no one wants traditional lap dances than strip-clubs have to provide extras or they go out of business. Now I am NOT saying that ought to be the case and the same would be true the other way around: If customers were offended by clubs that had extras available in them than the places that sold extras would have to change or go out of business.
I'm not trying to start something, I'm just expressing a natural fact about how marketplaces work.
I understand how marketplaces work. Strip clubs don't go out of business because they don't provide extras. They go out of business because they don't advertise, they open up in a bad location, they hire ugly girls, etc. There is, has been, and will continue to be a perfectly good market for clean clubs. I've had this discussion on this board already.
I don't care if the customers are offended by extras. I don't care if they want strip clubs to sell sex. That is not what strip clubs are supposed to do. When I get hired, they make me sign a contract saying that I will not fuck or suck customers. Clean dancers don't like it when customers and whores conspire to break this contract. It results in all kinds of headaches that we should not have to deal with.
chris91
09-10-2009, 03:22 AM
You might if when you get what you want it is far superior to what you can get elsewhere.
Let's use XDamages analogy.
If I can get X% of cooks to go "off menu" to make me a superior hamburger at Pizza Hut than I can get at Burger King why wouldn't I continue to seek out hamburgers at Pizza Hut?
It would seem foolish for a smart person to settle for less from another supplier simply because they advertise those specific services as being their stock and trade. Why not get the best available to you, even if it comes from a supplier who doesn't advertise those specific services as their main business?
And again it only works because I can find what I am seeking out on a fairly consistent basis. If I couldn't there would be no point in wasting the energy in trying.
You can keep going back to the strip club to get your "superior" whores, but you will have to deal with the fact that the clean dancers will hate you for it. Just hope that you don't happen to be fucking a girl at my club when I'm having a bad day.
Doing that shit at a whorehouse, everyone is in on it. At a strip club, you are surrounded by people who do not want you there. Do you know how easy it is to track down a dudes wife or boss with just the information on the drivers license that he so willingly hands over with his credit card? A cell phone snapshot or descriptive letter sent to the right person and his life is fucked. I don't like prostitution in my club, and I am not above calling someone's mother.
xdamage
09-10-2009, 08:32 AM
Doing that shit at a whorehouse, everyone is in on it. At a strip club, you are surrounded by people who do not want you there. Do you know how easy it is to track down a dudes wife or boss with just the information on the drivers license that he so willingly hands over with his credit card? A cell phone snapshot or descriptive letter sent to the right person and his life is fucked. I don't like prostitution in my club, and I am not above calling someone's mother.
I understand being pissed. Yes, the guys on here talking about getting extras are pissing people off, and probably should not discuss it on SW (but keep it on SCJ).
But the reality is for all of the being pissed, it is not just customer contributing to the state of affairs. It is rare to hear about dancers willingly reporting other dancers. Add in club owners that look the other way, and LE that ignores what is going on at the SCs, and you end up with the situation as it is today.
As for getting back at customers (why not extras girls too?) ... yes and no. In the short term yes, but it could backfire. If everyone starts finger pointing and the law does start monitoring the clubs, most dancers and customers are in violation even doing what many assume are "clean dances". Every IC should know the laws in their own area if they want to protect themselves. But I really wonder. While it would be possible to clean up the clubs, it would also drive out all the gray area business, the high contact LDs that many city laws clearly prohibit, but are now common, presumably because they are good money for today's generation of dancers who accepts them as the "norm".
And yes, clean dancers could trash customer, but war is dangerous business as the other party can (and usually does) retaliate. A customer need only make noise about the high levels of contact in the club by calling LE. It could all go bad if LE visits, and starts busting and trashing everyone for the dancing that exceeds what the local ordinances allow. LE people are often over worked, over stressed. They may well turn a blind eye to SCs as long as there is no noise and pressure on them to bother. But draw a lot of attention to them and you could end up with them crawling all over the place driving away business. There are always trade offs.
princessjas
09-10-2009, 09:02 AM
Are you sure it's rare for dancers to turn in other dancers? Maybe in places like Vegas this is true, maybe in dives it is, but it was common in most of the clubs that I've worked in. I've never retaliated against a customer but I've turned in every single girl I've ever seen giving extras or doing drugs. Admittedly some will turn the other way, but I really think they only do so because they know some other girl is reporting it immediately. Oh, and for the record I've generally only worked at heavily monitored clubs with cameras all over the place. ;) Keeps the extras to a minimum.
xdamage
09-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Are you sure it's rare for dancers to turn in other dancers? Maybe in places like Vegas this is true, maybe in dives it is, but it was common in most of the clubs that I've worked in. I've never retaliated against a customer but I've turned in every single girl I've ever seen giving extras or doing drugs. Admittedly some will turn the other way, but I really think they only do so because they know some other girl is reporting it immediately. Oh, and for the record I've generally only worked at heavily monitored clubs with cameras all over the place. ;) Keeps the extras to a minimum.
Nobody has statistics. Indirect logic. You read a lot of stories both from customers and dancers, often about the same girls repeating, but not many report stories or stories of them being arrested. At least not a balance of stories.
But in theory if most were being turned when it was seen, the problem should mostly correct itself. That is to say the word would get out, give extras to a customer, go to jail or be fired. It is the same logic that if it happens a lot, customers will come to expect it and feel it is safe to do in SCs. Same logic, but since the result is different it implies many cases are not reported and acted on, so it thrives.
princessjas
09-10-2009, 12:58 PM
Nobody has statistics. Indirect logic. You read a lot of stories both from customers and dancers, often about the same girls repeating, but not many report stories or stories of them being arrested. At least not a balance of stories.
But in theory if most were being turned when it was seen, the problem should mostly correct itself. That is to say the word would get out, give extras to a customer, go to jail or be fired. It is the same logic that if it happens a lot, customers will come to expect it and feel it is safe to do in SCs. Same logic, but since the result is different it implies many cases are not reported and acted on, so it thrives.
I don't think the existence of extras means that they aren't usually being reported when clean dancers see them. Most girls who suck cock in the CR usually don't do so with an audience. Maybe I'm overestimating my fellow dancers, but I know I always discretely informed management whenever I saw blatant extras happening and I've often heard of other dancers doing so.
Honestly though, I RARELY ever saw anything. More like I'd see something...sorta but couldn't really tell because of the dark nature of most clubs and I'd NEVER report someone in that case. Saw more extras as a waitress who had to go into the CR occassionally than I ever did as a dancer. Not to be argumentative, but we aren't ALL extras tolerant. ;)
xdamage
09-10-2009, 01:28 PM
Not to be argumentative, but we aren't ALL extras tolerant. ;)
That's good. And valid point that dancers don't see a lot of it.
Yea, I think it may depend on the clubs. But I've been in VIP rooms a handful of times in Vegas clubs. Minus the little partitions ... hmmm.... and when a dancer tries to unzip your pants like it is totally normal (yes this has happened more then once) and isn't the least bit worried about co-workers walking by or managers, hmm... sure left me with the impression that it is happening in some clubs and nobody cares. Even more so when they are actually surprised when you say "no, just dance", like this is unusual.
MarvelGirl
09-10-2009, 01:31 PM
That's good. And valid point that dancers don't see a lot of it.
Yea, I think it may depend on the clubs. But I've been in VIP rooms a handful of times in Vegas clubs. Minus the little partitions ... hmmm.... and when a dancer tries to unzip your pants like it is totally normal (yes this has happened more then once) and isn't the least bit worried about co-workers walking by or managers, hmm... sure left me with the impression that it is happening in some clubs and nobody cares. Even more so when they are actually surprised when you say "no, just dance", like this is unusual.
Which clubs in Vegas? I seriously want to know which clubs in Vegas have dancers who WANT to suck your dick and attempt to do so with no additional money or even a request.
I'm really dying to know.