View Full Version : Conversation starters- FROM a customer
Donovan28
09-10-2009, 02:29 PM
I really did want to know about what customers could start a good conversation with a dancer with...
Didn't really want it to go down the 'extras' rathole. Isn't this in another thread?
laurcon
09-10-2009, 03:06 PM
I really did want to know about what customers could start a good conversation with a dancer with...
Didn't really want it to go down the 'extras' rathole. Isn't this in another thread?
yes it did go way off topic but we did thoroughly answer the original question: buy us a drink and we'll have a conversation! if you're too cheap to do even that, we're not giving you any tips on how to waste a girl's time! thanks ;)
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 04:21 PM
I understand how marketplaces work. Strip clubs don't go out of business because they don't provide extras. They go out of business because they don't advertise, they open up in a bad location, they hire ugly girls, etc. There is, has been, and will continue to be a perfectly good market for clean clubs. I've had this discussion on this board already.
I don't care if the customers are offended by extras. I don't care if they want strip clubs to sell sex. That is not what strip clubs are supposed to do. When I get hired, they make me sign a contract saying that I will not fuck or suck customers. Clean dancers don't like it when customers and whores conspire to break this contract. It results in all kinds of headaches that we should not have to deal with.
Two of my favorite clubs, in fact my home base of sorts, work totally clean so you don't have to sell me. When I want to relax I want to R E L A X, which means a clean club with no high pressure hustle. Just people I know, customers and dancers, and a mellow vibe. Sort of like "Cheers" with strippers. :)
xdamage
09-10-2009, 04:30 PM
Which clubs in Vegas? I seriously want to know which clubs in Vegas have dancers who WANT to suck your dick and attempt to do so with no additional money or even a request.
I'm really dying to know.
It's happened at SR, OGs and CH2s (now gone, use to be awesome) that dancers go for the fly. I wouldn't assume it is for blowjobs; could be, it didn't go that far. Also for all I know it would have been to tease and then ask for money to continue. Who knows.
But also it is surely just a business hustle. Lots of pretense about how much they enjoyed it. Aha, sure... I'm not stupid. It's simple really.
I had a lot of money to spend, and I had already spent quite a lot on the floor. They figured that out based on what I was already spending, how I was dressed, where I was staying, my age, etc. Presumably they were gambling it would keep me there spending longer, or that it would cause me to come back again and spend again tomorrow.
I think the more interesting matter is the casualness of the whole thing, like nobody cares, everyone knows about it but just looks the other way.
It is odd that the customers who are rarely at SCs are not super shocked by the frequency that extras are offered, but the dancers who are there everyday act surprised. Admittedly the VIP rooms are dim, but even a quick look around the room has always had me doubtful that everyone is following the letter of the law in Vegas.
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 05:08 PM
You can keep going back to the strip club to get your "superior" whores, but you will have to deal with the fact that the clean dancers will hate you for it. Just hope that you don't happen to be fucking a girl at my club when I'm having a bad day.
Someone like me does what I do in the most low key fashion. No one but the dancer and I know what is going on unless she talks to someone about it [maybe management if they were the one who made the introductions]. So, Chris, what I have a problem wrapping my mind around is why you would want to go out of your way to hurt someone who was causing you absolutely no harm?
Then add to that the knowledge that there are so many of these dancers that you are literally damning the majority of your own with your words ought to give you pause to reflect. Any number of the women you call friend in the club may be among them. All dancers know other dancers who have sugar daddies.
Do you know how easy it is to track down a dudes wife or boss with just the information on the drivers license that he so willingly hands over with his credit card? A cell phone snapshot or descriptive letter sent to the right person and his life is fucked. I don't like prostitution in my club, and I am not above calling someone's mother.
That is a dangerous game you say you would engage yourself in. I can well imagine if clubs in your area ever found out you were talking like that it could lead to being blackballed. I mean who wants a dancer in the club who would bring that kind of drama to the business' doorstep in all the ways mentioned by Xdamage's post. Not to mention that in 25 years of detective work I've investigated cases were people were killed for far less then totally ruining someone's life. I only mean to say that acting out in such ways seems like begging to become a statistic.
Very dangerous indeed.
It would never occur to me to be that self-loathing as to deal with my issues by doing that kind of damage to someone else.
I'll choose to presume you are just very passionate on the subject and not so foolhardy as to actually undertake such a rash and mean-spirited a course of action against another human being.
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 05:20 PM
I understand being pissed. Yes, the guys on here talking about getting extras are pissing people off, and probably should not discuss it on SW (but keep it on SCJ).
Maybe, but the fact that reality is being totally avoided causes someone like me to want to hold up a mirror and say, "Look deep as this is reality."
Too many people walking about in fogs not seeing the forest for the trees. The problem is their behavior, because they are so passionate about their cluelessness, tends to create pitfalls that have to be navigated by others trying to get from one point to another in relative safety. :)
But the reality is for all of the being pissed, it is not just customer contributing to the state of affairs. It is rare to hear about dancers willingly reporting other dancers. Add in club owners that look the other way, and LE that ignores what is going on at the SCs, and you end up with the situation as it is today.
Only add that too many people, customers-dancers-management, are too busy trying to get over on one another and you have basically stated above precisely the same thing I am saying.
Golden_Rule
09-10-2009, 05:31 PM
Nobody has statistics.
And nobody wants them either.
There are VIP extras going on in every high end club within 100 miles of NYC. Much of it with the DIRECT involvement of management. Hustler, PEC, the new Scores, all of them. In Vegas, South Florida, CT [funny thing is not so much in NJ, where most of such behavior takes place OFF campus in high end clubs... you only find it in club down in the low end, but there is a LOT of it off campus].
That is the reality.
So when dancers announce how they would never work in clubs where such stuff goes on, but most would give their eye teeth to work in a club like PEC or Hustler in NYC it is a thing that makes me go, "Hmmmmmmmmmmmm."
I'm not saying any of this to ruffle feathers. I am saying it because it is reality and its never good to be walking about with blinders on.
I use myself as an example because it would be hypocritical not to when making the points I am trying to make and while I am a lot of things a hypocrite isn't one of them. :)
princessjas
09-10-2009, 05:32 PM
I really doubt she would ever do it GR.... You have to understand, we are passionate about this subject because many of us have been assaulted by someone who has been taught to expect extras.
I'd dare to say it is the rare stripper with over a few years experience that doesn't have at least one friend that has been RAPED in the CR from someone expecting extras...because they have gotten them in the past. I'm in no way kidding when I tell you I have known numerous dancers that have confided in me that they have been violated to this horrifying degree by a customer who lost their temper. Sure the bouncer busts in half the time and pulls the guy off of them pretty quick...but if they are already raping the girl...damage is done, and usually she gets punched or slapped a few times for effect.
I'd bet all Chris would really do is exactly as I do...report the whores in the club to management so they get their asses fired. Of course, most girls who dislike extras avoid extras-friendly clubs, so those will always exist...but is it really to much to ask that they keep the cock sucking to the known whorehouses? Just to keep us from being beaten, assaulted and possibly raped yanno?
ETA - True story... I was once bitten on the ass so hard for turning down a guy who wanted a BJ that I had to take almost 2 mos off for the outline of his teeth and the massive bruising to subside. It was a few hours later on the main floor and he just bent over and bit me on the ass as I walked by. Moron! :(
goreantx
09-10-2009, 05:34 PM
we are passionate about this subject because many of us have been assaulted by someone who has been taught to expect extras.
Yelled at, guilt tripped, treated like crap, manhandled to the point of feeling helpless, yep. But... we're the ones that need a background check.
Babydolls in Dallas is a perfect example of this. It was overran some years back with pimps and their girls, who were dirty dancers. Since then, it hasn't shaken the label of "highest mileage dances in Dallas". Although any dancer can make tons of money there, guys all come in expecting extras, it's ridiculous. I've flat out had guys stop me 20 seconds into a dance and say never mind, after they realize I'm not going to let them suck and touch me. I gave up trying to change the clientele, and eventually switched clubs because of this.
I agree with chris91 100%. I, and ALL the girls I know at work WILL call out a dirty girl and get her fired, or get a guy wanting extras kicked the Hell out! And, if you're sending moles into clubs to find out who the dirty girls are, you really need to get a life!
xdamage
09-10-2009, 06:01 PM
Maybe, but the fact that reality is being totally avoided causes someone like me to want to hold up a mirror and say, "Look deep as this is reality."
Hey, that's your nature as evidenced by many posts going back a long time ;) To a degree the stereotype is true. Many of us guys want to solve problems vs be problem listeners. But as you also know, part of the problem is sometimes people don't want to solve problems, they want to vent. In reality there are so many dynamics involved that even if we all get them, the system may have a life of its own, no one person can really stop it anymore because there are too many others with their own agendas about what they want. So what can a dancer do who wishes for less contact but ... vent? As usual I love your insights GR, just you and I don't feel their pain like they do so to some degree there is an angle on this we will never fully get. We sort of get it by way of similar life analogy but we don't feel the passion over this matter that those negatively effected do. Such is life.
Earl_the_Pearl
09-10-2009, 06:58 PM
Only add that too many people, customers-dancers-management, are too busy trying to get over on one another and you have basically stated above precisely the same thing I am saying.
That is the way of the SC, all sex related industry in fact. Can you smell the love. :grouphug:
Earl_the_Pearl
09-10-2009, 07:01 PM
As usual I love your insights GR, just you and I don't feel their pain like they do so to some degree there is an angle on this we will never fully get.
Dancers use the possibility of extras to hustle VIP/Champagne rooms. They do know the PL's pain but wallow in it with glee.
Earl_the_Pearl
09-10-2009, 07:08 PM
ETA - True story... I was once bitten on the ass so hard for turning down a guy who wanted a BJ that I had to take almost 2 mos off for the outline of his teeth and the massive bruising to subside. It was a few hours later on the main floor and he just bent over and bit me on the ass as I walked by. Moron! :(
Of course you filed a suit for battery and were compensated for your time off. ::)
princessjas
09-10-2009, 07:38 PM
Of course you filed a suit for battery and were compensated for your time off. ::)
Oh, yeah Earl!! Sure I did! That's why I got to keep my job.
WTF does this have to do with anything? I have also had a jackass try to shove his fingers inside me THROUGH my thong...tore me up incredibly bad...Didn't file a suit in that case either...does that mean it didn't happen or was less traumatic? What the fuck is the douchie eyeroll for?
I don't wanna be banned or I'd have a lot more to say to you for this ignorant assed response! :bomb: I truely hope that one day every goddamn thing that you have eyerolled at or ignored as insignificant because it only happened to women happens to your wrinkly white ass! \
And sorry mods, but this was my toned down response after several edits.
Earl_the_Pearl
09-10-2009, 08:11 PM
I truely hope that one day every goddamn thing that you have eyerolled at or ignored as insignificant because it only happened to women happens to your wrinkly white ass! \
My white ass is not wrinkly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/earlcamembert/Myasssml.jpg
chris91
09-11-2009, 02:15 AM
Someone like me does what I do in the most low key fashion. No one but the dancer and I know what is going on unless she talks to someone about it [maybe management if they were the one who made the introductions]. So, Chris, what I have a problem wrapping my mind around is why you would want to go out of your way to hurt someone who was causing you absolutely no harm?
Then add to that the knowledge that there are so many of these dancers that you are literally damning the majority of your own with your words ought to give you pause to reflect. Any number of the women you call friend in the club may be among them. All dancers know other dancers who have sugar daddies.
They are not causing me absolutely no harm. They are screwing up my livelihood.
Also, I don't have any dancer friends. I make my money and go home. The only friends that I have at the clubs are the staff members thta I've known for years. I don't know what you mean when you say that I'm damning the majority of my own.
That is a dangerous game you say you would engage yourself in. I can well imagine if clubs in your area ever found out you were talking like that it could lead to being blackballed. I mean who wants a dancer in the club who would bring that kind of drama to the business' doorstep in all the ways mentioned by Xdamage's post. Not to mention that in 25 years of detective work I've investigated cases were people were killed for far less then totally ruining someone's life. I only mean to say that acting out in such ways seems like begging to become a statistic.
Very dangerous indeed.
It would never occur to me to be that self-loathing as to deal with my issues by doing that kind of damage to someone else.
I'll choose to presume you are just very passionate on the subject and not so foolhardy as to actually undertake such a rash and mean-spirited a course of action against another human being.
Being "blackballed" is not something that happens in real life. It's something that you made up in your head. We've had this discussion before.
I did call a guys girlfriend once, but it was outside of the club and he had assaulted me. He left his phone behind after my friend beat his ass, so I gave her a ring to let her know what her scumbag boyfriend was doing. She was too stupid to care.
I can't say that I would never go after customer in this way. He'd have to do something really bad. Worse than paying a dancer for sex in the club. If a guy were to try to rape any girl in my club, or to deny a large credit card charge so that I didn't get paid, then I probably would hunt down his information and give his wife a call. He'd have a hard time finding me if he wanted to kill me. I don't give out personal info at work. Dudes do.
My point was that dudes should be careful about what they do and say in strip clubs. If we wanted to, we could really hurt you. I would have to be pushed pretty far, and my methods would be less brutish, but there are plenty of girls who only need to be pushed a little bit and will simply bury a rock glass in your head.
chris91
09-11-2009, 02:26 AM
I'd bet all Chris would really do is exactly as I do...report the whores in the club to management so they get their asses fired.
I do report whores. I don't have guys thrown out for asking, but I will if I see them doing something.
All I'm saying is that dudes will suffer consequences for seeking sex in strip club. Given how severe these consequences can be, you'd think that they'd want to go to a place where they are actually welcome.
Golden_Rule
09-11-2009, 02:56 AM
You have to understand, we are passionate about this subject because many of us have been assaulted by someone who has been taught to expect extras.
And that is most certainly hideous behavior but has little to do with the kind of activity I am talking about in or out of the club.
First of all when I enter into a club my expectation level is zero. One of the reasons what I do, when I do it, works is that dancers know they have little to be afraid of from me but at the same time also know I am very capable of totally 'having their back. I trust you know what I mean without going into detail but I will if you need me to. *
What I am talking about is never anything less than two people acting totally in concert with mutual consent and mutual purposes met from the experience. Each leaving with what they wanted from the exchange.
Now if some idiot takes that kind of thing and uses it in his mind to justify sexual assault than what can be said other than he is totally clueless and ought to be put down, or at least away where he can't hurt anyone.
I'd bet all Chris would really do is exactly as I do...report the whores in the club to management so they get their asses fired.
That probably wouldn't work as in the examples I site above [PEC, Hustler, etc] it is management most of the time who makes the introductions between dancers and customers. Like I said the exception in this area is NJ, where almost all of it takes place off campus at the high end clubs, without management's knowledge or blessing. Lots of stuff going on in the VIPs and LD rooms of the middle level and low end clubs though. In fact many of the SCs of Paterson, Passiac, Irvington, Newark, the Plainfields, and a few other spots in south Jersey are out and out brothels. One of them I can use as an example as its well known, documented, and just closed so I am hurting no one by saying it... Cheeks - formerly in Pemberton, NJ - is a perfect example of a mid-level NJ S-C/brothel.
Of course, most girls who dislike extras avoid extras-friendly clubs...
But we are talking about the highest end, biggest money making, clubs where almost all dancers would desire to work if they could. So how is it they are avoiding said clubs when they get on planes to fly to NYC to work at PEC and Hustler [for example]? I can even tell you what it usually costs for a "FoM" to engage in an on site VIP sexual activity. By the time you have tipped everyone, paid for the VIP and tipped the dancer its between $1500-$2000 for an hour. The dancer is keeping between $500-$1000 of that.
Many times off site "dates" grow out of on site VIPs. Dancers/sugar babies learn quickly that its better to get more of that $1500 and the fancy diners and the occasional theater or other cultural event doesn't hurt either. The funny thing about that is when it happens all sex on site, in the club, stops. It spoils the "dating" illusion.
ETA - True story... I was once bitten on the ass so hard for turning down a guy who wanted a BJ that I had to take almost 2 mos off for the outline of his teeth and the massive bruising to subside. It was a few hours later on the main floor and he just bent over and bit me on the ass as I walked by. Moron! :(
I both sympathize and empathize, but again that has little to do with the kind of sex for sale I am talking about and, also again, if the fact that it exists gives some assholes self-justification to act out they'd find that justification in just about anything even if what I do didn't exist.
* I'll explain anyway for those who, unlike yourself [as you sound like a women who keeps her eyes and ears open and learns a thing or two along the way because of it], might not know what I am talking about. Dancers in said clubs know "I have their back" because management has probably done an introduction and they have been told to "treat me special" so they know that nothing they can do with me is going to get them in trouble with management; cameras, etc, not withstanding. This happens all the time with VIP customers in high end clubs. Celebrities get that treatment all the time. People like me get it by being "FoM' - "Friends of Management". You reach that status in many ways but the easiest is by being a face they remember who tips particularly well. These dancers also know that nothing we might do outside of a club is going to get them into trouble as we are going to be flying so low beneath the radar that no one is going to know about it unless THEY are the ones to say something to someone.
They know that, with me, nothing bad is going to happen to them as we are covered from all angles. Unless on campus in the VIP the dates always take place between myself and a dancer who I've gotten to know in the club and we have expressed mutual like and potential chemistry with each other. They are structured like any other date, except we both know that sex is almost 100% assured at its end. On the rare occasion it doesn't happen there is no reason to get upset. Money isn't exchanged before hand. That is the way hookers do business and this, after all, isn't prostitution. All the sugar daddy has laid out is money for diner and entertainment and he's had the company of a beautiful woman so what is there to be upset about? The illusion becomes the reality and everyone gets to pretend no sex has been purchased. Just friends doing favors for each other that they might very well do even if no money was present [yeah, right! :) ].
It goes on all the time. For people with money, influence or both the high end S-Cs all over the country have been brothels for some time and its probably too late to change it. In saying so I am simply telling it like it is.
Golden_Rule
09-11-2009, 03:37 AM
And, if you're sending moles into clubs to find out who the dirty girls are, you really need to get a life!
Sending moles?? {LOL}
In the mid-level clubs in and around NYC its the dancers themselves, who have found me to be a good customer who tips well [including for information] who tell me. Of course its all in how one asks. You point out to a dancer whose income potential has been reduced by extras, politely, that they have a chance to make some money off of the "dirty girls" activities by simply pointing one in the right direction... you'd be amazed at how fast they say yes if the tip is good, and at how precise the information is.
Though I rarely need it as my antenna almost always points me in the right direction.
In the high end clubs of NYC its management who points me in the right direction, as I have pointed out elsehwere, frequently making the introductions themselves.
Earl_the_Pearl
09-11-2009, 03:39 AM
In fact many of the SCs of Paterson, Passiac, Irvington, Newark, the Plainfields, and a few other spots in south Jersey are out and out brothels.
You say that like it is a bad thing. True love can bloom in that part of New Jersey.
The taste of love is sweet
I fell into a burning ring of fire
I went down, down, down and the flames went higher
And it burns, burns, burns, the ring of fire
The ring of fireThe taste of love is so sweet it can give one pimples on one's chin. :-[
Golden_Rule
09-11-2009, 03:53 AM
I can't say that I would never go after customer in this way. He'd have to do something really bad. Worse than paying a dancer for sex in the club. If a guy were to try to rape any girl in my club, or to deny a large credit card charge so that I didn't get paid, then I probably would hunt down his information and give his wife a call. He'd have a hard time finding me if he wanted to kill me. I don't give out personal info at work. Dudes do.
Certainly very bad things, but you never stopped to think or have it occur to you that someone capable of doing such bad things might be capable of far worse if they felt threatened or endangered by someone?
As to finding people, that's just plain silly. I did it for a living and can tell you that it is extraordinarily easy to find people who aren't professionals at hiding. You have all sorts of data bits that readily follow you about, carrying with them all sorts of information.
Given a little bit about someone to begin the process a professional can track someone down to their home, know what car(s) they drive, their phone numbers, cross filed against family members and friends with all their info, bank accounts and balances, credit cards, etc, all without leaving the office. Its all far too simple [I for one would love new laws to make it more difficult].
My point was that dudes should be careful about what they do and say in strip clubs. If we wanted to, we could really hurt you. I would have to be pushed pretty far, and my methods would be less brutish, but there are plenty of girls who only need to be pushed a little bit and will simply bury a rock glass in your head.
PEOPLE in general should always be careful. Everywhere, not just in strip-clubs. Especially in this day and age. It also helps to take note that generally bad behavior begets equally bad responses and in a battle waged on escalation of force someone almost always winds up very badly hurt, if not dead. Its easier simply not to start such snowballs rolling down hills. Safer too.
Earl_the_Pearl
09-11-2009, 04:02 AM
PEOPLE in general should always be careful. Everywhere, not just in strip-clubs. Especially in this day and age. It also helps to take note that generally bad behavior begets equally bad responses and in a battle waged on escalation of force someone almost always winds up very badly hurt, if not dead. Its easier simply not to start such snowballs rolling down hills. Safer too.
Oh so true; fortunately for the SC business PLs are just that PLs and go meekly into the night.
princessjas
09-11-2009, 04:45 AM
And that is most certainly hideous behavior but has little to do with the kind of activity I am talking about in or out of the club.
First of all when I enter into a club my expectation level is zero. One of the reasons what I do, when I do it, works is that dancers know they have little to be afraid of from me but at the same time also know I am very capable of totally 'having their back. I trust you know what I mean without going into detail but I will if you need me to. *
What I am talking about is never anything less than two people acting totally in concert with mutual consent and mutual purposes met from the experience. Each leaving with what they wanted from the exchange.
Now if some idiot takes that kind of thing and uses it in his mind to justify sexual assault than what can be said other than he is totally clueless and ought to be put down, or at least away where he can't hurt anyone.
Not to be an ass, but I stopped reading right here. It's an internet forum, don't write a novel.
My response is just because YOU aren't out assaulting dancers there are thousands of others just like you that are. That is the start and finish of it. If I'm ever unfortunate to walk in on one of your little extras girls, you can damn well believe I will do anything and everything I can to get her whore ass canned regardless of tip. That being said, those "high end" clubs you named are well-known for extras. I would never dance at those places regardless of their pricing because I was warned by numerous girls when I was up there that some that you listed were basically whore houses...Good looking whores yes, but still it doesn't belong in the SC.
You are encouraging these dancers to try this with other customers that WILL attack us and beat the shit out of us if we don't fuck them too. :O
Not that you are going to listen. You'll just write another long-winded novel trying to prove I'm wrong by making the situation much more complicated than it actually is, as you always do to try and talk your way in circles to justify your actions.
*I think I'm going to put ALL men on ignore till I'm over this fucking flu.
vmurphy252
09-11-2009, 06:19 AM
^Hey, what did I do?
princessjas
09-11-2009, 07:26 AM
^Hey, what did I do?
Ok, most. There are a few of you that don't make me want to sit you on fire. ;D To the rest Imma borrow a phrase from VS.
Die in a fire!
I'll be back to trying to be nice later. Right now everyone that irritates me can just fuck off. }:D
ETA - Before I get flamed I'm like at least halfway kidding. :shrug: I just can't tolerate much bullshit atm.
chris91
09-11-2009, 08:00 AM
Certainly very bad things, but you never stopped to think or have it occur to you that someone capable of doing such bad things might be capable of far worse if they felt threatened or endangered by someone?
As to finding people, that's just plain silly. I did it for a living and can tell you that it is extraordinarily easy to find people who aren't professionals at hiding. You have all sorts of data bits that readily follow you about, carrying with them all sorts of information.
Given a little bit about someone to begin the process a professional can track someone down to their home, know what car(s) they drive, their phone numbers, cross filed against family members and friends with all their info, bank accounts and balances, credit cards, etc, all without leaving the office. Its all far too simple [I for one would love new laws to make it more difficult].
PEOPLE in general should always be careful. Everywhere, not just in strip-clubs. Especially in this day and age. It also helps to take note that generally bad behavior begets equally bad responses and in a battle waged on escalation of force someone almost always winds up very badly hurt, if not dead. Its easier simply not to start such snowballs rolling down hills. Safer too.
Listen, I really don't need your lectures. I'm a grown woman and I'm not stupid. I am more than capable of determining the risks involved in whatever I choose to do, and making my own decisions about whether or not it's worth it. I would never do anything that I thought would result in me swimming with the fishes.
Stop shaking your finger at me and trying to scare me straight or whatever the hell it is that you're trying to do. It's insulting.
vmurphy252
09-11-2009, 08:37 AM
"Swimming with the fishes, see."
Donovan28
09-11-2009, 09:59 AM
yes it did go way off topic but we did thoroughly answer the original question: buy us a drink and we'll have a conversation! if you're too cheap to do even that, we're not giving you any tips on how to waste a girl's time! thanks ;)
Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but I feel safe saying your summary is way off base, Laurcon.::)
Nobody said anything about me or any other client being 'too cheap' to buy a drink. Think about it before you have a reaction...let it sink in... customers at strip clubs are the only reason you have a job there and can make money based on your looks.
I'm not telling you how to specifically DO your job, I'm suggesting you're oversimplifying the selling aspect. As smart dancers like Bella duJour have said, it's not just getting the client's dollars, it's making him feel good about letting the money go.8)
I guess you could say that I waste girls' time. Only the ones who don't want to get better at how they make money, though. The ones who listen end up making more money every time they work. (give someone a fish and you feed them for a day, teach them to fish and you feed them for a lifetime)
Any dancer who starts their conversation with "Wanna Dance?" and scorn when she doesn't hear what she wants to hear is TOAST in the clubs I go to. (Admittedly, ass-shaking, butt cheek clapping clubs are not my forte)
It's actually against the law for a dancer to solicit a drink in my state, according to the alcoholic beverage commission.
Funny how we likely agree on 85% of this, yet entertainers want to fight about the part we don't agree on... (sounds like organized religion)
My point, which has raised some hackles for some reason, is that if a guy doesn't have any empirical evidence that the woman in front of him would (or even COULD) provide some stimulating conversation (for both of them), why is he going to offer her a $10 drink? That's like gambling. You might as well wad up the money and throw it in the toilet. All of the risk belongs to him, and none to her.
Instead of jumping my case about how wrong I am, just try discussing it, please. It's OK to have a dissenting opinion and someone else doesn't have to be wrong in order for you to be right. See how this whole website is a DISCUSSION FORUM?
Let's be civil and stop name calling and belittling the customers. Without them, there's a lot of full time students who can't afford school and food, let alone a convertible and the rock star lifestyle we all want.
laurcon
09-11-2009, 11:45 AM
^^ woa woa woa! wtf buddy! where is all that coming from? i was just trying to get the thread back on direction and off of prostitution. i'm sorry but at my club $10 is nothing, so honestly if a guy won't spend that getting to know me based on my looks, then i will move on. i never go up to a guy and say "wanna dance?". i am VERY open-minded. i never called anyone any name. i'm getting really pissed. i never said you were wrong about anything. i love my customers and never belittle them. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? /:O
i'm merely saying how i feel personally as a dancer. i guess i wrote "we" but i shouldn't have, sorry for that. i'm only speaking for myself. that's how i feel about it.
the dancer does have some risk in sitting for that drink with a guy as she watches groups of other dancers go back to the CR with customers she missed in that 20 mins. so if a guy can't gamble $10 on a drink for me, which of course at my club its $16, then he's certainly not going to spend a few hundred or thousand that night, so for me... A WASTE OF TIME.
not all girls are concerned as much with hustling dances. i want the guy to be interested in me and want to buy me a drink after seeing me, and want to buy at least an hour in the CR room with me after having a drink or two with me 8) that's my plan and its been working but perhaps you have some better advice for me donovan? :O
laurcon
09-11-2009, 11:51 AM
Let's be civil and stop name calling and belittling the customers. Without them, there's a lot of full time students who can't afford school and food, let alone a convertible and the rock star lifestyle we all want.
this needed more attn. i looooooove my customers! seriously, i have the best life and am able to do so many awesome things because of them and they treat me with such respect. sometimes it doesn't even feel like working.
and i <3 my "rockstar lifestyle", so excited to see jay-z tonight!! ;D
goreantx
09-11-2009, 03:40 PM
I guess you could say that I waste girls' time. Only the ones who don't want to get better at how they make money, though. The ones who listen end up making more money every time they work. (give someone a fish and you feed them for a day, teach them to fish and you feed them for a lifetime).
It's just because you are a guy telling us what to do. You know I love ya, but I had the distinct displeasure of running into your twin brother at the club a couple of days ago. He blabbed on for something like four songs about how he should start a consulting firm for strippers. His amazing advice was basically for me to take off my wedding ring and make guys think I would sleep with them. I was just nodding and willing him to take a breath inbetween words so I could squeeze out "Ohh look at the time, I gotta go!" :-\ We love your advice out of the club, but when we're in the club, we just want to find the guys who want to give us money. That just means we'll meet you for lunch, instead ;D
Donovan28
09-11-2009, 04:12 PM
It's just because you are a guy telling us what to do. You know I love ya, but I had the distinct displeasure of running into your twin brother at the club a couple of days ago. He blabbed on for something like four songs about how he should start a consulting firm for strippers. His amazing advice was basically for me to take off my wedding ring and make guys think I would sleep with them. I was just nodding and willing him to take a breath inbetween words so I could squeeze out "Ohh look at the time, I gotta go!" :-\ We love your advice out of the club, but when we're in the club, we just want to find the guys who want to give us money. That just means we'll meet you for lunch, instead ;D
Not my twin, baby. I don't even give advice in the club, you know that.
I'm not even the instructor!
If you feel a guy is wasting your time and the advice is unwanted, bail out ASAP!
Consulting firm for strippers? Not a good idea. How about a site that gives you concrete and easy to implement tools you can use right away??
Oh, that's what we already have.
dtxgirl
09-11-2009, 04:24 PM
Ok.. I've read the whole thread and am just going to answer the original question. And then probably get off topic and write a novel.
here's things that people do that have gotten my attention.
- Eye contact, either on stage or from across the room.
- "where have you been all night" is always a good one.
- when I go up to a table and ask "how is everyone?" and someone responds with " much better now that you're here!"
- Big stage tips. I'll always go up to everyone that tipped me onstage anyway, but when someone tips a 10 or $20? they are the first one I go to.
- Of course if they offer me a drink, But even better when they offer me a drink and then hand me a $20 as well. When they know how to pay for conversation they know how to pay for VIP.
- You'd think that "I LOVE redheads!!!" would be a good one, but 50% of the time it's attached to someone who is either a: dirty, b: broke or c: got screwed over by one of us witchy wimmen and wants to take out that anger on me. No thank you. So I'm hesitant when someone is like that.
- asking about a room or VIP. I love it when that happens without me bringing it up.
THINGS THAT MAKE ME RUN AWAY:
- asking for extras, whether it's blatant or subtle.
- flashing wads of cash and not giving me any, while talking about how much you spend. Yes, dude, a lot of people can grab 2 grand in cash, but if you're not spending it on me.... you're dead to me. LOL. Or just another face in the crowd.
- body odor. Dude. seriously. It takes 5 minutes to shower. And while I'm ranting, don't lick my boobie with your nasty mouth. If I let YOU do that, I let everyone... Swiney Boob flu much?
- Ordering yourself a drink and not even asking. On the same note though, I'd rather have the money you're spending on the drink than the drink itself. Unless it's water. You can buy me water all night long and I'm happy.
- Handsy while just talking. If you're groping me while I'm talking, I'll bet I need handcuffs to control Doc Oc in the dance room.
Also, THIS ENTIRE QUOTE MAKES ME CRINGE AND RUN:
If she is sitting with me at my table (I will tip them $3 on stage to get them there usually), after the small talk (see below) and mentioning I am VIP (assuming I find her attractive and like what she's said so far), I usually will ask how long she has been dancing at the club and if she likes to play. I might show her two or more Bens as I do this or ask her what she thinks of my money clip (a gold plated Walking LIbety Half) which usually has 10 - 12 Bens or more. If they will not will sit with me off the bat and at least talk to me and simply walk up to my table asking if I will take a dance, something I find annoying, I will say "Well tell me this honey - do you like to play?" If she says yes, then I may take her upstairs to VIP and take 2 dances then see where we go from there......
Everybody is worried about convo, but the real power in a SC is money. However when talking with a dancer I try to find out why she is dancing (without being judgemental), how she likes it, if she's going to school, and see if she will discuss future plans. I will fit the pieces of that into the things I do or have going on to see if there is a common ground. I stay away from personal questions like age, marital status, kids and instead let them bring that up. I usually dress nice going to a SC, usually sport coat and nice professional shirt and slacks. Good looking shoes can almost always make a difference and once you show them you can converse intelligently they will start to see money which we all know is the main ingredient of stripper wealth. Last year I spent $21,000 on girls (mainly strippers) and while at times I feel this would have bought a lot of other nice things it beat going to Europe and for vacation I spent about $600 spending a few days in Chicago instead plus around $800 on activities with a gal I met at a SC there. Consequently, I did not go on the lake dinner cruise without a date....or just go back to the room alone. Chicago has so many beautiful women, just seeing them on the bus during summer in their short shorts is a treat.....Girl watching was as large a part of the fun as the river Arcitectural Tour.
Ah yes. 21,000 in a year. Yay. I prefer my custies that give me about 3 grand a month, with minimal dancing and lots of talking and cuddling. ...which works out to about ... oh, lets see. 36,000 a year. from one custy. CLEANLY.
Be aware that while you may be running around asking for "Play" we are also running around telling the girls we work with who you are, and having management keep an eye on you. Some times management doesn't care, but sometimes they do. I had someone watched and eventually kicked out and banned from the club.
It's guys like you who have changed this job and disgust me. And the guys like you who use the services of the girls who have pimps and can't get out of that situation. How would you feel if your daughter or younger sister got into that? how about if someone you know "Played" with that girl? What about when you get an STD from those girls and continue to spread it around?
There are several young girls with pimps in my club and it breaks my heart every time I see them walk out of the dance booths with dirty customers. Particularly cause they don't realize they can make the money working clean.
There are many aspects of this job that I love, but that is not one of them.
Elvia
09-11-2009, 04:24 PM
I'm not telling you how to specifically DO your job, I'm suggesting you're oversimplifying the selling aspect. As smart dancers like Bella duJour have said, it's not just getting the client's dollars, it's making him feel good about letting the money go.8)
I guess you could say that I waste girls' time. Only the ones who don't want to get better at how they make money, though. The ones who listen end up making more money every time they work. (give someone a fish and you feed them for a day, teach them to fish and you feed them for a lifetime)
Donovon, this attitude is NOT going to go over well with the dancers here. Acting like you know more about how to do our jobs than us is pretty inappropriate. And from what I've gathered from a lot of your posts, many of your ideas are way off base. You may have knowledge of sales, and i'm sure that makes you useful for the SGR site, but you do not know much about being a dancer. it seems that everytime a dancer implies that your advice isn't that great, you accuse her of being a "wanna dance" girl. there's quite a range inbetween wannadancing every guy in the house immediately, and being willing to sit and talk to anyone who wants to regardless of whether there are better options out there. there are many techniques the dancers have developed to help us weed out the time wasters and focus our time and attention on the people that are most likely to spend money.
you may see that $10 drink as a gamble, but most of us know from experience that the men who think that way are very often a waste of time. Sure, that won't be true everytime, but most of the time it is. And most of us can find plenty of guys who are willing to buy us a drink in exchange for sitting and chatting. Believe me, in my early days I spent plenty of time trying to chat up guys who wanted my attention but refused to buy me a drink. Very rarely was I able to get money out of them, and often not enough to make it worth my time. The dancers know this. Maybe you should listen to what we have to say about being a dancer once in awhile.
Cyril
09-11-2009, 04:31 PM
There is a saying in my neighborhood. You can lead a mare to ...
Donovan28
09-11-2009, 04:55 PM
Donovan, you accuse her of being a "wanna dance" girl. there's quite a range inbetween wannadancing every guy in the house immediately, and being willing to sit and talk to anyone who wants to regardless of whether there are better options out there. there are many techniques the dancers have developed to help us weed out the time wasters and focus our time and attention on the people that are most likely to spend money.
you may see that $10 drink as a gamble, but most of us know from experience that the men who think that way are very often a waste of time. Sure, that won't be true everytime, but most of the time it is. And most of us can find plenty of guys who are willing to buy us a drink in exchange for sitting and chatting. Believe me, in my early days I spent plenty of time trying to chat up guys who wanted my attention but refused to buy me a drink. Very rarely was I able to get money out of them, and often not enough to make it worth my time. The dancers know this. Maybe you should listen to what we have to say about being a dancer once in awhile.
I always listen to what you and many others say on here. I've never accused anyone of being a wannadancer, but thanks for saying I do...::)
There's totally a place for that though, as many clubs are all about no talk and all action with one and done dances.
What's funny is that the tone that comes across is almost always this superior 'looking down your nose' attitude that a 'client' could not possibly know what dancers go through and how they make could more money.
I appreciate your giving me credit for knowing sales, but the job is a more of a combination of psychology, body language reading, conversation skills, and sales all rolled up in one.
I have no trouble with anyone using experience to guide them, because the past is a great predictor of the future most of the time, but this current environment is different.
Adapting and trying new techniques is going to be the only thing that allows some entertainers to stay in the business right now.
The days of choosing between 15 good options and bouncing from one guy to the guy at the next table seem like ancient history right now and my city is a mecca for this business.
I really do mean well, even though my tone gets defensive. I wish more people would just express their opinions without having to make sure someone else is WRONG in the process...
Donovan28
09-11-2009, 04:58 PM
Ok.. I've read the whole thread and am just going to answer the original question. And then probably get off topic and write a novel.
here's things that people do that have gotten my attention.
- Eye contact, either on stage or from across the room.
- "where have you been all night" is always a good one.
- when I go up to a table and ask "how is everyone?" and someone responds with " much better now that you're here!"
- Big stage tips. I'll always go up to everyone that tipped me onstage anyway, but when someone tips a 10 or $20? they are the first one I go to.
- Of course if they offer me a drink, But even better when they offer me a drink and then hand me a $20 as well. When they know how to pay for conversation they know how to pay for VIP.
- You'd think that "I LOVE redheads!!!" would be a good one, but 50% of the time it's attached to someone who is either a: dirty, b: broke or c: got screwed over by one of us witchy wimmen and wants to take out that anger on me. No thank you. So I'm hesitant when someone is like that.
- asking about a room or VIP. I love it when that happens without me bringing it up.
THINGS THAT MAKE ME RUN AWAY:
- asking for extras, whether it's blatant or subtle.
- flashing wads of cash and not giving me any, while talking about how much you spend. Yes, dude, a lot of people can grab 2 grand in cash, but if you're not spending it on me.... you're dead to me. LOL. Or just another face in the crowd.
- body odor. Dude. seriously. It takes 5 minutes to shower. And while I'm ranting, don't lick my boobie with your nasty mouth. If I let YOU do that, I let everyone... Swiney Boob flu much?
- Ordering yourself a drink and not even asking. On the same note though, I'd rather have the money you're spending on the drink than the drink itself. Unless it's water. You can buy me water all night long and I'm happy.
- Handsy while just talking. If you're groping me while I'm talking, I'll bet I need handcuffs to control Doc Oc in the dance room.
Good post, DTXgirl!
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
There's probably need for a whole post on just how a guy could be a better customer... I'll make it...
goreantx
09-11-2009, 05:01 PM
Good post, DTXgirl!
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
There's probably need for a whole post on just how a guy could be a better customer... I'll make it...
Oh... god.. don't... just... ahh *hides*
Donovan28
09-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Oh... god.. don't... just... ahh *hides*
Too late. Done. Should be entertaining.
Elvia
09-11-2009, 06:00 PM
I always listen to what you and many others say on here. I've never accused anyone of being a wannadancer, but thanks for saying I do...::)
There's totally a place for that though, as many clubs are all about no talk and all action with one and done dances.
What's funny is that the tone that comes across is almost always this superior 'looking down your nose' attitude that a 'client' could not possibly know what dancers go through and how they make could more money.
I appreciate your giving me credit for knowing sales, but the job is a more of a combination of psychology, body language reading, conversation skills, and sales all rolled up in one.
I have no trouble with anyone using experience to guide them, because the past is a great predictor of the future most of the time, but this current environment is different.
Adapting and trying new techniques is going to be the only thing that allows some entertainers to stay in the business right now.
The days of choosing between 15 good options and bouncing from one guy to the guy at the next table seem like ancient history right now and my city is a mecca for this business.
I really do mean well, even though my tone gets defensive. I wish more people would just express their opinions without having to make sure someone else is WRONG in the process...
Maybe I was wrong, but it did seem that you had assumed that both laurocon and I were "wanna dance" girls. I gathered this because you lectured us both against doing that, and I don't see how that would be relevant unless you were assuming it was what we did.
Before I was a dancer, I used to be a fairly regular customer. I had all kinds of ideas at to what dancers should and shouldn't do, and all kinds of ideas as to what they should do to make more money. It wasn't until I became a dancer that I realized how stupid so many of my "ideas" had been. And the one's that weren't stupid were just obvious, they certainly wouldn't have been news to any dancer that had been in the business for a week. You have to realize we CONSTANTLY have guys try to give us advice in the club. It insulting, in part because so many people assume that a woman in the sex industry just can't really know what she's doing, she must be confused and desperate and oblivious. It's pretty condescending when a random stranger approaches you and tries to teach you how to do your job, which happens all. the. time.
I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and as I said before, I'm sure you do have useful sales info. But the advice I've managed to gather from this thread just doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you can't seem to understand why a dancer would prefer to first approach the customers who have tipped at the rack, or who have offered a drink, over the guy who hasn't tipped or spent anything on the dancers. They do exist, you know. Times may be harder, but they aint that rough. if you're trying to gather advice for guys on how to get a dancer to approach them, I'm afraid that the fact is, in most cases, when they get off stage, they're going to approach the guys who tipped over the ones who didn't.
the truth is, I've never been given one piece of advice from a customer that's been at all useful. who knows, Maybe someday it'll happen. I have, however, been given great advice on more than one occasion by dancers and former dancers.
laurcon
09-12-2009, 03:21 AM
^^ holy crapy elvia! this is exactly what the "thanks" was created for. i was reading your post and found myself yelling "THANK YOU!!!" outloud! just like thank you, seriously, that's exactly what i wanted to say.
seriously, us girls might want to take a break from "customer conversation" for awhile for our own sanity!!:O
Donovan28
09-12-2009, 06:25 AM
seriously, us girls might want to take a break from "customer conversation" for awhile for our own sanity!!:O
That's OK if you're only here to tell people how wrong they are and you aren't open to new ideas. You make a good point though, this area wouldn't let customers post if we weren't supposed to share our thoughts. What gets me AGAIN is that you can't just share your OWN opinion. It's like this sick little power trip where someone else has to be wrong and a very disrespectful and condescending tone comes across. If the information doesn't work for you, just let it go. It might work for someone else. I'm not going to be rude and disrespectful to you and I'd appreciate the same courtesy, Elvia.
Donovan28
09-12-2009, 06:37 AM
You have to realize we CONSTANTLY have guys try to give us advice in the club. It insulting, in part because so many people assume that a woman in the sex industry just can't really know what she's doing, she must be confused and desperate and oblivious. It's pretty condescending when a random stranger approaches you and tries to teach you how to do your job, which happens all. the. time.
the truth is, I've never been given one piece of advice from a customer that's been at all useful. who knows, Maybe someday it'll happen. I have, however, been given great advice on more than one occasion by dancers and former dancers.
Yes, I realize random strangers may be giving you advice you didn't ask for that's not useful, but you are in a forum called "Customer Conversation". If nothing here is useful to you and you you've NEVER gotten anything from it, why keep coming back and insulting people just because you think they are wrong? /:O You obviously have some kind of payoff you're getting or you wouldn't do it.
Why can't someone else have a valid point? I don't pretend that I know your job anywhere near as well as you do, so I don't get your offense level and aggressive responses to my suggestions and questions. I have been nothing but nice to you and you have consistently (and unsuccessfully) tried to rip me a new one.
Step back from the keyboard for a second and see this forum for what it is. There's not any reason why every other person has to be wrong so you can be right and it IS possible that even though you are perfect::), OTHER entertainers/clients could benefit from something said here. My posts are also for guys as well.
Let others have their opinions. That's all I'm saying. There's not a need for acrimony and dissension for a few posts that aren't your cup of tea.
laurcon
09-12-2009, 10:35 AM
^ is anyone out there getting help from this but too scared to post?? :-X
Phil-W
09-12-2009, 11:02 AM
You know as a guy posting on here it's sometimes difficult to realise what a gulf separates us from dancers - and it is a gulf.
There's a temptation to think that because we go to strip venues, get on with specific dancers and maybe even get vented to at moments of stress we understand dancers and how they feel. Unfortunately, that's a million miles from reality.
I've been close OTC friends with a couple of dancers for years (6 in one case, 8 in the other) and the better I've got to know them, the less I've realised I *really* understand about the realities of dancing.
I can feel emphathy for them, symphasise with them, be a shoulder to cry on and try to understand - but there will still be this gulf between me and them: simply because I don't do the job - I'm just an onlooker.
We (as guys) can't fully understand dancers. For a start the way we react emotionally as males and females is different - so we're projecting male attidudes and emotions onto what is a female situation. Secondly, we don't spend a lot of our time naked in an environment full of stress, rejection and (sometimes) unpleasant customers - we're just passive observers.
The *occasional* bit of advice is fine - as long as we don't try to tell the dancers how to do their jobs - but we shouldn't give too much of it. Nor should we think we fully understand what it's like to be a dancer.
Just my two cents...
Phil.
Elvia
09-12-2009, 05:01 PM
Dononvon,
I am not trying to mean to you or "rip you a new one." In fact, the more you say that, the more I try to be gentle. I am, however, being very frank and honest with you. I got back into this conversation because you obviously rubbed laurocon the wrong way, and having been on this site for awhile and seen this happen so many times, I wanted to explain to you why that might have been. It does seem that when someone is less than thrilled with your advice, you are quick to assume that she has no charm/hustle skills at all. I gathered this because you often jump into a lecture against wannadancing right off the bat.
As for this "advice" you supposedly gave me that you keep refering to, I'm at a bit of a loss because I can't really even figure out what this "advice" is supposed to be. I said something about moving on pretty quickly when a guy wants conversation but declines to even buy me a drink, you said something about how I'm "missing out." I explained why I do this, and asked why you thought it was important to give these guys attention while ignoring the guys who do want to buy me a drink or ply me with tips for company (who have proven over the years to be far more profitable), and instead of answering, you just accuse me of putting you down. I think if you spend some more time on this site you'll find that even dancers sometimes don't understand the advice they get from other dancers, and will question it, at which point we discuss it and the other dancers clarify why they think it's a good idea. We may not take everyone's advice, because we all work in different clubs and within different SC cultures, but we don't take it personally if someone decides it doesn't make sense for them.
to answer your question as to why I'm here- customer conversation is a good place to get the customers perspective. I can find out what they like, what they don't like, what men are generally more or less receptive to in a club. It's different from going to the stripping or hustle hut section. For me, it makes more sense to hear "this is what I do/don't like in the club" from customers, and from dancers "this is how I hustle." I have to balance both perspectives. While I'm sure the customers would all love it if I lavished attention on them and asked for nothing in return, and rewarded those who give me nothing over those that spend, that doesn't really make it a good plan if I want to make money.
I really don't think you should be so sensitive if someone doesn't care for your advice. If you're going to go around giving advice, you should be prepared to get feedback on that advice.
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 05:26 PM
My response is just because YOU aren't out assaulting dancers there are thousands of others just like you that are. That is the start and finish of it.
Not to be an ass but my point is that simply isn't the case.
1) I've worked in clubs and been in them for DECADES and the vast majority of men are wall flowers in clubs. They become mailable and shy and the dancers have to take the lead or they would do nothing but sit and stare. There are some percentage of men who act like total assholes and an even smaller percentage who go even further than that and cross severe lines into becoming stalkers, attackers of various sorts and other weirdos and whack jobs.
You make it sound, in the way your write about it, that men in general are all seething piles of hormones waiting to accost some unprepared dancer. Well excuse me Ms Dworkin but I sense a bias showing. [Relax, I said that with a smile and tongue planted firmly in cheek... a sense of humor is critical in most things]
2) I was talking about guys like me, Sugar Daddy Light types, which are a small percentage but still outnumber the uber-creeps by a good amount.
You took it in another direction and said "just because guys like you", to which my response is, "Its only guys like me I am referring to."
That being said, those "high end" clubs you named are well-known for extras.
The point is, name one in or about NYC, Miami, LV, CT, that isn't?
You are encouraging these dancers to try this with other customers that WILL attack us and beat the shit out of us if we don't fuck them too.
I am doing no such thing. My behavior is my responsibility. Other people is theirs.
I'm not trying to influence anyone. I strike my own colors to show precisely who and what I am and allow others to decide if they care to engage me on my terms. Those that chose not to are just fine in my book, those that do are also. Same-same.
Not that you are going to listen. You'll just write another long-winded novel trying to prove I'm wrong by making the situation much more complicated than it actually is, as you always do to try and talk your way in circles to justify your actions.
No, that is not what I do. You have a particularly strong belief system, which is obvious, and nothing I say is going to change your mind about it. What I write is for those who are interested the point:counter-point and want to make up their own minds.
I never have an issue letting the court of public opinion have their way with anything I write.
*I think I'm going to put ALL men on ignore till I'm over this fucking flu.
And that, if not conclusive proof of the above, is as damn close to it as you are apt to find in a forum. :) I rest my case.
And I sincerely do hope you are feeling better quite soon.
wishing nothing but the best...
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 05:33 PM
Listen, I really don't need your lectures. I'm a grown woman and I'm not stupid. I am more than capable of determining the risks involved in whatever I choose to do, and making my own decisions about whether or not it's worth it. I would never do anything that I thought would result in me swimming with the fishes.
Its not a lecture. In the case of responding to what you are writing its almost a PSA. :)
Stop shaking your finger at me and trying to scare me straight or whatever the hell it is that you're trying to do. It's insulting.
I'm not writing it for your benefit. I'm laying out the counter-point to your rather extreme way of doing things so that impressionable sorts can see there is a flip-side and perhaps a disadvantage to taking the law into your own hands and becoming a "Stripper Vigilante".
Be well Charles Bronson [gave my age away, OK - Jody Foster]. Go in peace. }:D
truly wishing well...
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 05:52 PM
There's a temptation to think that because we go to strip venues, get on with specific dancers and maybe even get vented to at moments of stress we understand dancers and how they feel. Unfortunately, that's a million miles from reality.
And there is a much greater temptation, in this very PC world, to make everyone's pain special and unique.
People are people. Stress is stress. Pain is pain. We all bleed red.
I've held people as they died. Told others their children will never be coming home. Investigated every single horrible thing one human being can do to another; many, many, many times over. Been witness to countless tragedies that resulted from hate, greed, stupidity, and just about any other human trait you can think of. I've been there, right next to them, when people I cared about died.
I've been shot, stabbed, survived cancer twice and been in two car wrecks each of which ought to have killed me, yet I am still here. I've killed two people and put a few others in the hospital, all for very good reason.
Does this mean I have some sort of "special pain" that is more important or of a higher status than anyone else? I don't think so.
You survive, or you don't. You live well, or you don't. You deal with life, or you don't.
None of us is more special than anyone else and neither is anyone's pain vastly different.
Pain is pain and while it may come from various sources and experienced at different levels at different times it shares common denominators and it all feels the same.
Folks are folks and some of the folks here, for no other reason than it will improve their lives, need to get over themselves and their "special pain". :)