View Full Version : Conversation starters- FROM a customer
chris91
09-12-2009, 05:55 PM
Its not a lecture. In the case of responding to what you are writing its almost a PSA. :)
I'm not writing it for your benefit. I'm laying out the counter-point to your rather extreme way of doing things so that impressionable sorts can see there is a flip-side and perhaps a disadvantage to taking the law into your own hands and becoming a "Stripper Vigilante".
Be well Charles Bronson [gave my age away, OK - Jody Foster]. Go in peace. }:D
truly wishing well...
If you don't want me to assume that you're talking to me, then don't quote my posts when you make your "PSA".
I'm sure that anyone who can use the internet is smart enough to know that there are potential consequences to fucking with other people. Your public service announcements are the equivalent of hanging out in the smoking section making speeches about cancer and emphysema, because, clearly, you are the only one smart enough to read the warning label. It makes you sound like a pretentious asshole. I'm just saying...
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg
vmurphy252
09-12-2009, 05:58 PM
^That makes me want to watch the old-school GI JOE cartoons...
Elvia
09-12-2009, 06:26 PM
Chris, the concern isn't really for your safety. He's just trying to discourage anyone doing anything about extras in the club because he is, by his own admission, one of those guys that goes trolling for extras in the club. Which makes it all the more ironic that he's apparently so concerned about your well being.
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 06:28 PM
I'm sure that anyone who can use the internet is smart enough to know that there are potential consequences to fucking with other people.
I'd like to think so but in being in a perfect position to observe human behavior and get paid while doing it [not unlike strippers but in a much larger venue as my "club" encompassed first a whole city and then the mostly densely populated tri-state area in the US] I have to say that it is sometimes necessary to state the obvious. Especially when someone else is espousing something of the order you are. Vigilantism can be a very romantic and powerful notion to the easily affected.
Your public service announcements are the equivalent of hanging out in the smoking section making speeches about cancer and emphysema, because, clearly, you are the only one smart enough to read the warning label. It makes you sound like a pretentious asshole. I'm just saying...
???
And your suggesting, in open forum, that someone shouldn't feel free to express an opinion contrary to your own is...? ;)
wishing well...
chris91
09-12-2009, 06:50 PM
I'd like to think so but in being in a perfect position to observe human behavior and get paid while doing it [not unlike strippers but in a much larger venue as my "club" encompassed first a whole city and then the mostly densely populated tri-state area in the US] I have to say that it is sometimes necessary to state the obvious. Especially when someone else is espousing something of the order you are. Vigilantism can be a very romantic and powerful notion to the easily affected.
Well, aren't we lucky to have you here.
???
And your suggesting, in open forum, that someone shouldn't feel free to express an opinion contrary to your own is...? ;)
wishing well...
That's not what I was saying. You weren't expressing your opinion. You were stating inaccurate facts, seemingly for no reason other than to let everyone know how smart you are.
Also, I'm not addressing the masses of an "impressionable sort". I'm talking directly to you about your crusade to save the stupid people from themselves. It smacks of white knight-itis. It's annoying.
Mostly, I was mocking you. My post was supposed to sound like a PSA. That's why I put that "the more you know..." picture at the end. Get it?
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Chris, the concern isn't really for your safety. He's just trying to discourage anyone doing anything about extras in the club because he is, by his own admission, one of those guys that goes trolling for extras in the club. Which makes it all the more ironic that he's apparently so concerned about your well being.
Sorry, but I call BS. I hate to harp on it but my very choice of living belies your position. Why would I chose a career that keeps people safe if keeping people safe wasn't an interest of mine.
As I have stated before when I seek extras, which is only a small percentage of the time I am in a club, I do so only in clubs that I know provide them. I'm not twisting any arms in doing so and if the club environment was different I'd take it somewhere else. In fact, if every strip-club in the US stopped providing extras tomorrow I couldn't care less. I was a swinger for two dozen years, helped run one of the largest swingers self-awareness/self-help and social networks in the world [Adult Links].
I am a jaded, grizzly, fat old fuck of a soul and still would have no problem finding willing sex partners because I have a sense of humor about myself and life in general and I know how people tick. Add to that the fact that for some strange reason people find me interesting enough to want to be in my company... the reason why eludes me to this very day. :)
I choose paid extra-curricular partners [dancers for the most part] because it is simple and at this point in my life simple is how I like it. In point of fact I don't pay them to have sex with me, I pay them to go home when its all over. Its only fair as I have nothing else of value to offer since I'm not open to anything else; like commitment or a relationship.
If you note I have made it general policy to comment on ideas posted here and not people. There is good reason for that. I don't know many of you. You certainly don't know me and aren't anywhere nears qualified to make any personality assessments long distance based solely on my participation on this board. I've got a lot of sides to me and I show only a couple of them here. Basically because only a couple of them are germane to the content.
Now if you would be so kind I politely request you to leave the ad hominem BS out of the convo if what you are attempting to do is make a legitimate point of some sort. Thank you.
PS: I am a BIG workers' advocate and would support dancers getting together and controlling their work environment. Eliminating extras, among other things, if that is what they TRULY want. I've said so many times before and all I get in response is, "Can't happen."
Elvia
09-12-2009, 06:58 PM
Ok, so you're very concerned with our safety, while having no regard for the professionalism of our workplace. And you don't resort to personal attacks here...just the ones you left on my profile. I think I got it now, thanks for clearing that up. I can't imagine why your lectures aren't more warmly received.
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 07:02 PM
Well, aren't we lucky to have you here.
I'm not saying that, you did.
All I am doing is making a case for why what I say has some teeth in it. All I am saying is that I was placed in a position to gain unique experience, and a lot of it.
Since many people have some notion of what a big city detective is exposed to during the course of their career; and why someone with open eyes, ears and mind could learn from those experiences, those people will take that into consideration when measuring what I have to say on subjects that have to do with human behavior. And if they feel its worth nothing... Hey, the court of public opinion is what it is and speaks what it will.
That's not what I was saying. You weren't expressing your opinion. You were stating inaccurate facts, seemingly for no reason other than to let everyone know how smart you are.
Please point out a single inaccurate fact. I take pains to express opinion so that people understand its opinion. Even if at the same time I also express that I have good reason for having said opinion.
Mostly, I was mocking you. My post was supposed to sound like a PSA. That's why I put that "the more you know..." picture at the end. Get it?
Actually you were mocking me some right from the get go and of course I got it. Just like Elvia and her "he's not a real person, just someone seeking extras" post. {LOL} How many winks and devil's horns emoticons am I suppose to use to let you know I got it and was giving it back to you in kind. :D
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 07:16 PM
Ok, so you're very concerned with our safety, while having no regard for the professionalism of our workplace. And you don't resort to personal attacks here...just the ones you left on my profile. I think I got it now, thanks for clearing that up. I can't imagine why your lectures aren't more warmly received.
Whoa, whoa, whoa...
Management and the dancers, that would be people like YOU, are responsible for the professionalism of your work place. NOT ME! If the work place isn't what dancers want it to be they need to look in the mirror before the cast any stones in the customers' direction. Utimately I have very little [bordering on none] control over your workplace. Management and peer review/pressure have the final say on that. Not customers.
I didn't leave any personal attacks on your profile. I said things about the stuff you SAID not about YOU. Just as I am doing now. The visitor's message page is an open page that ANYONE can see for themselves to determine that. Feel free to attack my ideas anytime, but that isn't an invitation to attack me.
Elvia
09-12-2009, 07:21 PM
^^^ That's not what I recall. And I believe it was in response to a post I made warning girls to be wary of accepting invitations to illegal "private parties" without references. Funny that would enrage you so much when you're so concerned with safety.
Golden_Rule
09-12-2009, 07:27 PM
^^^ That's not what I recall. And I believe it was in response to a post I made warning girls to be wary of accepting invitations to illegal "private parties" without references. Funny that would enrage you so much when you're so concerned with safety.
It was awhile ago, and I was hardly enraged. [Please know hardly anything that could happen on a website forum, other than the posting of information that would be directly threatening to me, would cause me anything other than some combination of interest and bemusement]
I pointed out that you were making indirect slights at me personally, while saying you were speaking to a general issue... as in: "Not for nothing gals, but GRs posts about his private parties reminds me to say don't look into any work at PPs posted by people you don't know." [implied: like GR].
That while I had dancers who had been to the parties posting on blue, and a couple even here on pink, stating they found our PPs to be perfectly acceptable, well run, employment opportunities.
I just thought it was 1) a bit snide. 2) was keeping people from looking into profitable employment under good circumstances. So I said so, and did it politely even if directly.
Elvia
09-12-2009, 07:35 PM
And yet, no one was ever able to find those supposed posts, and you weren't even able to produce them yourself, and got more and more angry and agitated when people kept asking you to. Yeah, that's a big red flag in the industry. And no, it most certainly was not polite. It wasn't even rational, considering I had already asked you to refrain from contacting me.
chris91
09-12-2009, 07:40 PM
Please point out a single inaccurate fact. I take pains to express opinion so that people understand its opinion. Even if at the same time I also express that I have good reason for having said opinion.
I already did point them out. I'm tired of running around in circles with you.
xdamage
09-12-2009, 10:53 PM
What would end this is to change the laws. Let club owners apply for Brothel licenses side by side with SCs, to divide the lines clearly, and let LE visit the clubs to make sure each type was following the associated rules. Finally to let the free market decide for itself which type of clubs it wants, ones where touching is very strictly limited by the laws and enforced; the other where mostly anything goes as long as protection is used and the adults agree.
But... I think the underlying issue that keeps being danced around is that a lot of customers believe that if it was really that equitable and cleaned up, if in the same part of town you could go to an entertainer who will have sex or one who won't, that SCs would fail.
I'm not so sure, but I do know in the Netherlands SCs have failed. Without legislation and bargaining to make it undesirable for customers to use hookers, the SCs have died. And I don't mean like in Vegas where the Brothels are like the big dirty secret kept an hour of out of town. I mean like in the Netherlands where it is offered side by side, and the mantra really is "Prostitution is just a job", stigma turned way down, sex workers of all kinds to be treated well.
That is the white elephant that people keep pretending is not there. That if everyone really got what they claim they want. A purely clean SC with no customers deluded about what they can get, with not much touching, sitting side by side with clubs where guys can get anything up to and including sex, that the SCs would fail. That the reason the SCs do so well is that the gray area, the fuzzy line between reality and fantasy, is very profitable, that keeping alive the belief that guys might get laid if they pay enough is the big money, and that if that really was exposed in all of it's truthfulness to customers, the money would dry up too. That it is precisely the playing with fire, keeping customers unsure if it is real or memorex that keeps them spending and if we layed it out for them, handed them pamphlets saying "if you really want sex, go next door to the brothels" that the money would stop.
Yet nobody can say hey, look, ELEPHANT! Because to admit that is to admit that the profits depend on many of the very same things that make the job suck.
Thoughts?
Golden_Rule
09-13-2009, 01:21 AM
And yet, no one was ever able to find those supposed posts, and you weren't even able to produce them yourself, and got more and more angry and agitated when people kept asking you to. Yeah, that's a big red flag in the industry. And no, it most certainly was not polite. It wasn't even rational, considering I had already asked you to refrain from contacting me.
UGH!
I wasn't "not able to produce them". I said I wasn't going to be bothered to prove a point to someone whose mind was already, obviously, made up.
And then Earl pulled one out and someone, I believe it might have been you, dismissed it out of hand.
And whether you believe it or not I couldn't be further from agitated. I find most of this stuff mildly amusing. [Except the parts where people are threatening to do harm to others... that I just think is a bit twisted].
Now, speaking of worked up, why don't you relax a bit yourself. It's starting to sound like you're blood pressure is getting a tad high. We can agree to disagree and call truce, or we can go back and forth until the cows come home. I have the patience of a monk and tenacity of a pit bull so either way is OK by me. :)
wishing well...
Phil-W
09-13-2009, 01:38 AM
FWIW - my response to xdamage....
The alternative is to clean up the SC's so that HJ's, BJ's etc cannot happen. Make sure that the bulk of the the SC is covered by cameras, etc and state that every manager, owner and dancer needs a license.
Make the dancers sign a declaration at the beginning of each shift that they are aware of the local laws and will respect them.
Make the managers on the shift responsible for ensuring no HJ's, BJ's are occuring by inspection and by scrutinising the camera tapes, etc. For each day that they are on duty make them personally sign a declaration that they have enforced the legislation against sexual activity.
Have local LE come in once a week and scrutinise a reasonable sample of the tapes. If they find any evidence of HJ's or BJ's on the tapes that manager's license is suspended for a month for the first and second offence and for 6 months on the third and subsequent offences - ditto the dancer involved. As they've personally signed declarations, the manager of dancer can't use "I didn't know" as a defence.
For each offence found on a tape the club gets a fine - large enough that it hurts. (5% of the previous month's turnover would be good). That way the club has got an incentive to keep things clean.
If clubs owned by a specific owner have repeated violations (say 6 in a 3 month period) then the owner gets an official warning. After three of these warnings they have their license removed and have to sell.
Give the right to go to court for dancers, mananger and owners to appeal and of these suspensions to prevent local LE officer abusing things.
The key to this is to make individuals *personally* responsible - if a dancer or manager has their license revoked, they don't work for a minimum of a month in any strip venue. Ditto the owner - repeated offences and they have to sell the businesses they own.
Customers have the option of going to a brothel if they wish - only now they have to make a choice: SC or brothel because now the two are different businesses.
Phil.
Golden_Rule
09-13-2009, 01:48 AM
I already did point them out. I'm tired of running around in circles with you.
You are running around in circles by yourself, perhaps, but I assure you I'm trying to keep this discussion linear, along with the logic, placing markers at each cite where I state an opinion so the reader knows why I have drawn those conclusions.
Your whole case your last few posts is very strongly about me and very little about what we are discussing, which isn't me [or shouldn't ought to be me anyway] but BEHAVIOR. [Example: you did this, or you said that; as opposed to you are this or you are that] None of us here are qualified to make those kind of assumptions about one another. I could be a 17 year old high school girl for all you know.
The power of internet forums is that any ones posts are only as strong as the ideas presented in them.
Look, I offer you the same 'we can agree to disagree" truce I offered to Elvia. I have absolutely no qualms about letting the readers come to their own conclusions about who has the better notions regarding up from down. We've knocked it about long enough that there is sufficient material for anyone reading to figure out on which side of the argument they come down.
Or, if you insist and aren't quite finished yet, you can give me more opportunities to respond to your attempts at mocking me and I'll go on continuing to make my case. The choice is yours.
I wish you well...
xdamage
09-13-2009, 05:53 AM
FWIW - my response to xdamage....
The alternative is to clean up the SC's so that HJ's, BJ's etc cannot happen. Make sure that the bulk of the the SC is covered by cameras, etc and state that every manager, owner and dancer needs a license.
Make the dancers sign a declaration at the beginning of each shift that they are aware of the local laws and will respect them.
Make the managers on the shift responsible for ensuring no HJ's, BJ's are occuring by inspection and by scrutinising the camera tapes, etc. For each day that they are on duty make them personally sign a declaration that they have enforced the legislation against sexual activity.
Have local LE come in once a week and scrutinise a reasonable sample of the tapes. If they find any evidence of HJ's or BJ's on the tapes that manager's license is suspended for a month for the first and second offence and for 6 months on the third and subsequent offences - ditto the dancer involved. As they've personally signed declarations, the manager of dancer can't use "I didn't know" as a defence.
For each offence found on a tape the club gets a fine - large enough that it hurts. (5% of the previous month's turnover would be good). That way the club has got an incentive to keep things clean.
If clubs owned by a specific owner have repeated violations (say 6 in a 3 month period) then the owner gets an official warning. After three of these warnings they have their license removed and have to sell.
Give the right to go to court for dancers, mananger and owners to appeal and of these suspensions to prevent local LE officer abusing things.
The key to this is to make individuals *personally* responsible - if a dancer or manager has their license revoked, they don't work for a minimum of a month in any strip venue. Ditto the owner - repeated offences and they have to sell the businesses they own.
Customers have the option of going to a brothel if they wish - only now they have to make a choice: SC or brothel because now the two are different businesses.
Phil.
Phil,
I agree SCs could be cleaned up like that, except for the last sentence :
Unfortunately in the USA most people don't yet have the choice that they should. Legal brothels should exist side by side with SCs but at the moment our laws remain antiquated in moral past that views sex as sinful. So people's choices to seek out illegal paid for sex in SCs where extras are going on, illegal sex in massage parlors (many of which are not just selling massages), to find private escorts, and or to search for underground brothels which are also illegal.
My main point though was that there is some cake eating and wanting it too. That part of the reason guys do spend as much as they spend in SCs is the belief that they might be able to score with a clean stripper vs a dirty prostitute, and that dancers often feed into that mindset too since it keeps the money flowing. But feeding into it also hurts the business long term. It is a conflict of interest. Conflict of interests are common in endless areas of life and this is no different. Just customers here talk about one side of the conflict, dancers the other, and as is common in all conflicts of interest, it's pretty hard to admit there is a conflict... we dance around it endlessly vs just acknowleging it head on because acknowledging it points that finger back at all involved parties. That in turn makes us feel bad about ourselves and it is our nature to avoid feeling bad about ourselves.
laurcon
09-13-2009, 08:55 AM
^^^ woa phil that seems like A LOT of work. hey i don't like extras as much as the next SW'er but that sounds ridiculous to me. A lot of time and money wasted. And honestly, that would probably just lead to setting up more dates OTC, thus taking extras out of the club, but not away from association with strippers. Its like the war on drugs, when people REALLY want to do something, they'll find a way. the only way to get extras out of the club is to fully legalize prostitution, right now people do not have clear enough options.
also all that watching of tapes would detract some guys from going back to the CR. not like they were trying to do something sketchy, but some guys i know are super paranoid about being married/prominent. also some of the guys do do embarrassing things like get spanked and humiliated :-[
laurcon
09-13-2009, 08:57 AM
oh btw, IGNORE is a beautiful feature!
less of this -> :banghead:
Phil-W
09-13-2009, 12:13 PM
^^^ woa phil that seems like A LOT of work.
OK - back to the drawing board. But the only way you'll stop extras is to give the club an incentive to do so. All the time they know it's in effect bringing money into the club they'll condone it.
...that would probably just lead to setting up more dates OTC, thus taking extras out of the club, but not away from association with strippers.
Yeah, but then it's (1) outside of the club and (2) a private arrangement between two consenting adults.
...also some of the guys do do embarrassing things like get spanked and humiliated.
I once had a conversation with a dancer who also worked as a dominatrix. She said a lot of her clients were men who had a lot of power in the professional lives (senior executives, etc) but who liked to be humiliated in their private lives. So I can understand why they wouldn't want to be caught on tape.
Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time......
Phil.
laurcon
09-13-2009, 01:14 PM
^ hey you were trying. that might be a good suggestion for dream girls though ;)
Elvia
09-13-2009, 02:51 PM
UGH!
I wasn't "not able to produce them". I said I wasn't going to be bothered to prove a point to someone whose mind was already, obviously, made up.
And then Earl pulled one out and someone, I believe it might have been you, dismissed it out of hand.
I'll be happy to bow out after this after this post, and I'll apologize to the OP for the threadjack. If anyone was able to find one these glowing reviews, it must have happened after I left the thread. To my knowledge, the only review of these illegal parties that's shown up was a very negative one.
As much as it annoys you, I'm going to reiterate a warning for any girls out there who might be new to the adult industry- the same warning I would issue if anyone was acting as shady as you:
Anyone who is providing adult industry money making opportunities,who is at all professional and to be trusted, will have references available, and won't have a problem with sharing them. It's not enough for them to simply say they have references- you should always ask for them, and check them out to make sure they are legit. As for golden rule, if he's still doing this, then yes, I'd be suspicious of him specifically. To my knowledge, there has been one well known posted response from a dancer who attended one of these parties, and it was quite negative. If you can't verify that an opportunity advertised over the web is legit, it's probably safest to pass.
Donovan28
09-13-2009, 08:24 PM
I'll be happy to bow out after this after this post, and I'll apologize to the OP for the threadjack. If anyone was able to find one these glowing reviews, it must have happened after I left the thread. To my knowledge, the only review of these illegal parties that's shown up was a very negative one.
As much as it annoys you, I'm going to reiterate a warning for any girls out there who might be new to the adult industry- the same warning I would issue if anyone was acting as shady as you:
Anyone who is providing adult industry money making opportunities,who is at all professional and to be trusted, will have references available, and won't have a problem with sharing them. It's not enough for them to simply say they have references- you should always ask for them, and check them out to make sure they are legit. As for golden rule, if he's still doing this, then yes, I'd be suspicious of him specifically. To my knowledge, there has been one well known posted response from a dancer who attended one of these parties, and it was quite negative. If you can't verify that an opportunity advertised over the web is legit, it's probably safest to pass.
No offense taken. Makes my thread look huge and more interesting.
You always have good points.
chris91
09-13-2009, 11:22 PM
You are running around in circles by yourself, perhaps, but I assure you I'm trying to keep this discussion linear, along with the logic, placing markers at each cite where I state an opinion so the reader knows why I have drawn those conclusions.
Your whole case your last few posts is very strongly about me and very little about what we are discussing, which isn't me [or shouldn't ought to be me anyway] but BEHAVIOR. [Example: you did this, or you said that; as opposed to you are this or you are that] None of us here are qualified to make those kind of assumptions about one another. I could be a 17 year old high school girl for all you know.
The power of internet forums is that any ones posts are only as strong as the ideas presented in them.
Look, I offer you the same 'we can agree to disagree" truce I offered to Elvia. I have absolutely no qualms about letting the readers come to their own conclusions about who has the better notions regarding up from down. We've knocked it about long enough that there is sufficient material for anyone reading to figure out on which side of the argument they come down.
Or, if you insist and aren't quite finished yet, you can give me more opportunities to respond to your attempts at mocking me and I'll go on continuing to make my case. The choice is yours.
I wish you well...
You are ridiculous. You constantly go around giving out unsolicited warnings and advice, yet you find it "a bit snide" when a dancer warns and advises against blindly agreeing to attend one of your underground fuckfests. Nevermind the fact that the dancers advice comes from personal experience, while yours comes directly from your ass. Somehow it's ok for you to do it, but not for her.
Just don't direct your bullshit service announcements at me anymore, and we won't have so may problems.
Golden_Rule
09-15-2009, 01:39 PM
As much as it annoys you, I'm going to reiterate a warning for any girls out there who might be new to the adult industry-
I have no problem with this. I would give the exact same warning myself. Any woman should do her homework back and forth before walking into any sex industry work.
...the same warning I would issue if anyone was acting as shady as you:
You are ridiculous. You constantly go around giving out unsolicited warnings and advice, yet you find it "a bit snide" when a dancer warns and advises against blindly agreeing to attend one of your {bold added} underground fuckfests.
This is the part I have the problem with. You always have to get snarky. Its always, eventually, the ad hominem BS with you [and some others]. You can't keep it to ideas. You have to get personal.
Anyway, any points I wanted to make are out there to be seen. I have little more to say on the topic.
Elvia
09-15-2009, 03:34 PM
^^^ I didn't mention you by name last time and you took offense at that- you accused me of "sneaky language." So, yes, I mentioned you this time.
I think it's pretty funny that the safety champion seems to think he should be above the standard safety protocol that's expected of everyone else. I've encountered guys like this before when looking into adult opportunities (photographers, mostly, but also people who threw BDSM and fetish parties). They make a big deal of saying what a great guy they are, how so many models/performers just love working with them, and they're so well known so you can feel so safe about it blah blah blah. And then when you ask about references, they get shady. "References? you don't need references from me! Everyone in the industry knows and loves me! You need references from those other guys, not me!" I didn't take those jobs of course, and when I asked around amongst photographers, etc who were trustworthy, it always turns out those guys have a pretty bad reputation. On the other hand, the ones who have turned out to be trustworthy and do actually have a good reputation will always happily offer up references, and will advise girls who are new to the business to always ask for them as well when working with others. Now those are people who are truly concerned with the performers safety!
So yes, your behavior is shady. Sorry if that's too "personal" for you. If you don't like it, maybe you should try adhering to industry standards instead of expecting to be some sort of exception that people should just blindly trust.
vmurphy252
09-15-2009, 04:25 PM
^Did I mention I'm a great guy?
mediocrity
09-15-2009, 04:31 PM
This is the part I have the problem with. You always have to get snarky. Its always, eventually, the ad hominem BS with you [and some others]. You can't keep it to ideas. You have to get personal.
Anyway, any points I wanted to make are out there to be seen. I have little more to say on the topic.
You do come across as a know it all in disguise a lot though dude. Like 'I know X,Y, and Z about the sex industry and advertise that I participate in a lot of things you girls would find unsavoury but I am just telling you for your own good and safety because I'm such a nice guy, gee whilikers!"
I think that's what makes some of us snarky and want rip our hair out.
mediocrity
09-15-2009, 04:32 PM
^Did I mention I'm a great guy?
He's a stalker. Trust me. He wants me to be his second wife. I have yet to tell him he can't afford it. Monetarily or emotionally.
vmurphy252
09-15-2009, 04:34 PM
^Hell, I think you told me you make more than me, so YOU'RE taking care of ME.
vmurphy252
09-15-2009, 04:35 PM
But I'm still a great guy.
mediocrity
09-15-2009, 05:08 PM
^Hell, I think you told me you make more than me, so YOU'RE taking care of ME.
Used to. Past tense. ATL circa 2002-2005.
ATX is coming up a close second though. And you still couldnt afford it emotionally. ;) I'm terribly demanding and impossible.
vmurphy252
09-15-2009, 05:34 PM
I'd go with highly improbable.
Cyril
09-15-2009, 05:55 PM
The second wives get more attention and love than the first wives. So, it is not such a bad deal.
Otoki
09-15-2009, 11:05 PM
You do come across as a know it all in disguise a lot though dude. Like 'I know X,Y, and Z about the sex industry and advertise that I participate in a lot of things you girls would find unsavoury but I am just telling you for your own good and safety because I'm such a nice guy, gee whilikers!"
I think that's what makes some of us snarky and want rip our hair out.
This really sums up my feelings on GR. Sometimes he posts really great stuff, but a lot of the time there seems to be a cognitive disconnect in his posts.
chris91
09-16-2009, 03:46 AM
This is the part I have the problem with. You always have to get snarky. Its always, eventually, the ad hominem BS with you [and some others]. You can't keep it to ideas. You have to get personal.
Ok, I'll re-phrase:
People who constantly go around giving out unsolicited warnings and advice, yet find it "a bit snide" when a dancer warns and advises against blindly agreeing to attend underground fuckfests thrown by said people, are ridiculous.
I suppose addressing the impressionable masses will come in handy when I want to backpedal later and claim that it wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Thanks for the tip.
yoda57us
09-16-2009, 06:08 AM
This is the part I have the problem with. You always have to get snarky. Its always, eventually, the ad hominem BS with you [and some others]. You can't keep it to ideas. You have to get personal.
GR, you've been around here long enough to understand that you can not separate the personalities on this board from the posts they make. You can cry foul if you want every time someone attacks your POV but the fact is we all have a right to comment on the words that others post AND express out opinions on what we think motivates those words.
Nobody's posts exist in a vacuum. Your thoughts alone are not as unchallengeable as you would like to think they are. If you want to write a blogg somewhere and espouse your expertise on all things sex-worker related that's fine. In a blogg you get to have the last word. Here on SW we all get to add our two cents on everything that gets posted including perceived intent.
Just take your lumps the way we all do. If you didn't want the attention you wouldn't be here...
Golden_Rule
09-16-2009, 02:45 PM
I specifically stated I'd give that warning to anyone seeking ANY sex industry work. Any work would include anything I'm involved with. That's always been my standing.
So I haven't in the past, and I'm not now, but you know that. Just more food for the snark in you.
[quote]So yes, your behavior is shady. Sorry if that's too "personal" for you.
I'd believe it would be too personal for anyone. I have an opinion of your behavior too and I could run it down the line, citing more than a handful of examples to back up why I feel that way, but I keep it to myself as its my style to keep opinions to ideas and NOT personalities.
I'm asking politely, please stop. Give me the same consideration I give you. Thank you.
Golden_Rule
09-16-2009, 02:58 PM
You do come across as a know it all in disguise a lot though dude. Like 'I know X,Y, and Z about the sex industry and advertise that I participate in a lot of things you girls would find unsavoury but I am just telling you for your own good and safety because I'm such a nice guy, gee whilikers!"
I think that's what makes some of us snarky and want rip our hair out.
I believe I have a unique perspective having come at this thing at so many angles. Law enforcement, bouncer, management, customer [of both ilks, clean and dirty] that I think I have something to contribute to the conversation. If you think I presume too much, fine. Than prove what I say is wrong and point me out as a blowhole based on poking holes in my facts and opinions. It is perfectly fair dealing to attack ideas on their merits with well thought out counter-point, and because it is you won't hear a peep out of me by way of complaint [except maybe a congrats for having a well laid out argument].
Don't get down in the dirt and start throwing mud pies with personal attacks. Its not cool and its certainly NOT fair.
Golden_Rule
09-16-2009, 03:08 PM
This really sums up my feelings on GR. Sometimes he posts really great stuff, but a lot of the time there seems to be a cognitive disconnect in his posts.
I am totally aware that my shit stinks the same as anyone else.
I post with an air of authority, candidly, because that is the style of writing I've used in my career for ages [both as a consultant, detective supervisor and investigator] who got paid to not only know what I was talking about, but to sound like it as well.
When I write about stuff like this I tend to fall into that style. I'm too old a tiger to go changing my stripes now. :) [A short-coming on my part I am sure]
Elvia
09-16-2009, 03:33 PM
I'm not sure what it is you're asking me to "stop" doing. Again though, pretty funny you would ask for that when you don't respect other's wishes. You didn't stop when I asked you to stop contacting me- you continued with your angry tirade, this time left on my profile. In fact you said that if I wouldn't talk to you, "I'll post here" to "embarrass you." Those were YOUR words.
You and your parties seem really suspicious, and the way you represent them isn't exactly honest. You've said things like "everyone's had a great time and been treated well!" when we know from another well known dancer's post that not everyone has had a "great time" and not everyone does feel they were treated well.
It's a ridiculous request anyway. If someone's adult venue is questionable, I'm not going to be coy and vague to avoid offending them. That does no one any good. If there are some well recognizable red flags, I'm going to point it out specifically and warn people to really do their homework on that one, especially if others have come out and said they felt they were misled in the past. Deal.
Elvia
09-16-2009, 03:36 PM
I post with an air of authority, candidly, because that is the style of writing I've used in my career for ages [both as a consultant, detective supervisor and investigator] who got paid to not only know what I was talking about, but to sound like it as well.
When I write about stuff like this I tend to fall into that style. I'm too old a tiger to go changing my stripes now. :) [A short-coming on my part I am sure]
In other words, though it's been made clear that many people find it condescending and irritating, and that my unsolicited lectures are not appreciated, I'm going to keep doing it anyway. No surprise there.
Golden_Rule
09-16-2009, 03:50 PM
GR, you've been around here long enough to understand that you can not separate the personalities on this board from the posts they make. You can cry foul if you want every time someone attacks your POV but the fact is we all have a right to comment on the words that others post AND express out opinions on what we think motivates those words.
I never cry foul when my POV gets attacked. Only when I, personally, do by someone who doesn't know me from dirt.
And I keep the same rules myself. You and I have gone around on a few things. Have I kept it to the ideas being discuss. Have I ever called YOU anything?
Ok, I'll re-phrase:
People who constantly go around giving out unsolicited warnings and advice, yet find it "a bit snide" when a dancer warns and advises against blindly agreeing to attend underground fuckfests thrown by said people, [B]are ridiculous.
No. Giving general warnings that lead ins innuendo that makes iit evident that the reason for care being required is me [or people like me, just as damning].
I've never done anything to rate that.
Anyway, we are back to going around in circles again.
Golden_Rule
09-16-2009, 03:58 PM
I'm not sure what it is you're asking me to "stop" doing. Again though, pretty funny you would ask for that when you don't respect other's wishes. You didn't stop when I asked you to stop contacting me- you continued with your angry tirade, this time left on my profile. In fact you said that if I wouldn't talk to you, "I'll post here" to "embarrass you." Those were YOUR words.
That isn't what I said AT ALL... geeze I wish the stuff was still up so I could point people to it because that is either a flat out lie or you forget what was written.
I said I was going to say some uncomplimentary things about your behavior so I wasn't going to say it in public in order NOT to embarrass you, but since you requested I only contact you in public you forced me to use public means, AND YOUR PROFILE PAGE IS PUBLIC [are you really that misunderstanding of how this board works?].
I picked your profile page to say what I had to say, after you asked me not to use PM, because while it was public it was less so than using the forum. I was attempting to be POLITE, not calling you out about your RUDE behavior where a lot of people could see it and I knew that, after a time, it would time out and go away [SHEESH!!!].
You and your parties seem really suspicious, and the way you represent them isn't exactly honest.
There you go again. You really can't control your behavior can you? :)
Golden_Rule
09-16-2009, 04:00 PM
In other words, though it's been made clear that many people find it condescending and irritating, and that my unsolicited lectures are not appreciated, I'm going to keep doing it anyway. No surprise there.
No... I will endeavor to give it my best shot but given the knowledge of my age and that some agree I do write stuff, even of only from time to time, is of some use that I be given the benefit of the doubt, and try not to expect too much as I've been this way for a LONG time. For a lot of you twice as long as you've been around, so give me a break... PLEASE.
Elvia
09-16-2009, 04:05 PM
Are you really so dim as to think "don't contact me" means "keep contacting me, but in a slightly different way?" I'm not going to address this point anymore because you're blatantly lying about it now.
Why should I "control" myself? By that, of course, you mean that you're pissed off that I refuse to do and say what you want. You're a giant red flag, but for some reason you think that your perceived right to advertise your seedy fuckfests unquestioned takes higher priority than the safety and well being of the women on this board.
Stop with the dramatics. You're free to stop having this conversation whenever you want. I can say your parties are suspicious, and point out the negative review (the ONLY apparent review) all I want. I'm not doing anything against the rules. Once again, I suggest you learn to deal. For someone who manages adult events, your reaction to people questioning the events is unusually defensive and aggressive.
yoda57us
09-16-2009, 05:35 PM
You and I have gone around on a few things. Have I kept it to the ideas being discuss. Have I ever called YOU anything?
Not that I can recall GR but that's really not the point of my post. The way you or I may choose to conduct ourselves does not set the standard for what approach others may take. It's a message board, it is what it is...
Golden_Rule
09-16-2009, 06:16 PM
Are you really so dim as to think "don't contact me" means "keep contacting me, but in a slightly different way?" I'm not going to address this point anymore because you're blatantly lying about it now.
Why should I "control" myself? By that, of course, you mean that you're pissed off that I refuse to do and say what you want. You're a giant red flag, but for some reason you think that your perceived right to advertise your seedy fuckfests unquestioned takes higher priority than the safety and well being of the women on this board.
Stop with the dramatics. You're free to stop having this conversation whenever you want. I can say your parties are suspicious, and point out the negative review (the ONLY apparent review) all I want. I'm not doing anything against the rules. Once again, I suggest you learn to deal. For someone who manages adult events, your reaction to people questioning the events is unusually defensive and aggressive.
^^^ Thank you for making my point for me.
The defense rests. :)
Cyril
09-16-2009, 07:23 PM
When and Where is this event happening? I would like to learn more. Thanks!