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pinkkitten
09-08-2009, 04:45 PM
^^You REALLY don't think that after you make out with them they are going to flat out ask the next girl beforehand? Or at the very least expect it and bitch when it doesn't happen in VIP and therefore not buy additional hours....Worst case which I have experienced is having a drunk guy get so angry because I wouldn't make out with him, as another dancer had previously done, that he assaulted me. Held me down and tried to force it and slapped me when I tried to push him off of me. You ARE affecting other girls money and their safety as well.

i agree completely.

seeing as how this past weekend i had two different customers who had seemed respectful and nice out on the floor grab my head with both hands and force their disgusting mouths on mine during a private dance and then act like it was no fucking big deal and i had no right to be pissed, i cant believe that anyone would actually think that giving a customer any extra at all would not condition them to expect it in the future. its fucking disgusting and i felt just as violated as i would have with any other kind of sexual assualt. actually worse cause with other forms i have experienced i at least have my mouth available to scream no. and its fucked up if this happens just because some other girl made them feel that it was an acceptable activity during a dance. as for all this cocaine and blowjobs shit, all i know is no one had ever forced a penis into my mouth during a dance and the worst thing that happened regarding drugs is that a guy just refused a dance and then went alng with a druggie. whatever, no physical harm done there.

laurcon
09-08-2009, 06:30 PM
It doesn't matter if you tell them you'll kiss them beforehand. That guy makes out with you, and then he comes to my club expecting the same thing. Maybe he asks for it straight up and goes looking elsewhere when I say no. Maybe he tries to kiss me in vip and decides not to tip me or renew the hour when I say no.

The things you do in the club do affect your co-workers. If you weren't an extras girl already, then I'm sure you'd notice the increase in guys who expect extras instead of just hoping for them. Those expectations come from meeting strippers like you.

i guess i just don't have any jerk customers so all of this is so foreign to me! i really feel horrible reading peoples' stories, it blows my mind that guys act this way. like i said, i will take this all into consideration in the future and don't plan on kissing any more customers in the club at least. i don't mind dating customers and i usually do if i kiss them, so i can wait till its outside of the club so those same guys won't go into another club and try to plant one on an unsuspecting dancer!
its so weird to me even calling them customers but that's reality. i just have to get with it. sorry for ruining the stripper world!

chris91
09-08-2009, 06:35 PM
no that's true jay and i totally agree, it is unprofessional and because i have "good intentions" or whatev, doesn't make it right at all. it is still an extra and outside of my job. i just got defensive for a moment but stepping back i agree with most of the comments. it definitely can affect other people, as well as myself, and i will try to think about that a little more in the future.

I didn't see this ^^ before I made my last post. I'm so used to people insisting that they will whatever they want, and fuck everyone else. Your responses are refreshing. I apologize for saying that you're no better than the whores. You are clearly better.

princessjas
09-08-2009, 06:46 PM
i guess i just don't have any jerk customers so all of this is so foreign to me! i really feel horrible reading peoples' stories, it blows my mind that guys act this way. like i said, i will take this all into consideration in the future and don't plan on kissing any more customers in the club at least. i don't mind dating customers and i usually do if i kiss them, so i can wait till its outside of the club so those same guys won't go into another club and try to plant one on an unsuspecting dancer!
its so weird to me even calling them customers but that's reality. i just have to get with it. sorry for ruining the stripper world!

It's cool. Thank you for realizing it really does change expectations for everyone. I haven't had many jerk regulars, but dang, have I had a lot of jerk custies! ;D I wish I had your experience and only met nice guys at work. I get a lot of those businessman/gentlemen acting types who end up being all handsy and try to shove their tongue down my throat once we are alone. I need a crash course on weeding out those guys! :rotfl:

WestCoast101
09-08-2009, 07:02 PM
Laurcon says "i will try to think about that a little more in the future" If you're attracted to these particular guys as you've (courageously in here) stated, don't have a b/f and the guys are otherwise gentlemen - there is nothing wrong with it. You've probably made their day. and you've made some good money, and everyone's happy. There is too much misery in the world to worry about 2 people enjoying kissing each other, and in the situation where its a regular deal between customer and dancer, it really can be incredible. Ok some girls can really fake it, so what.

Kissing, even in such an odd situation, if anything represents an advancement in human development, part of the beginning of face to face human interaction and contact, which led to pair bonding and subsequent advancements in civilization, and it should be celebrated not condemned.

laurcon
09-08-2009, 07:04 PM
It's cool. Thank you for realizing it really does change expectations for everyone. I haven't had many jerk regulars, but dang, have I had a lot of jerk custies! ;D I wish I had your experience and only met nice guys at work. I get a lot of those businessman/gentlemen acting types who end up being all handsy and try to shove their tongue down my throat once we are alone. I need a crash course on weeding out those guys! :rotfl:

lol girl! thank you sweetie, but you know what i think protects me somewhat? small tits! first off, it weeds out more men period, so i'm likely to get less jerks, but then also i'm picky, too picky sometimes to the point of probably hurting money :-\
if i approach a guy (who has to be decent-looking), ask him how he's doing, and he doesn't light up, smile, and say something like "better now that you're here!", i move on. with the help of SW i'm becoming a better stripper and making it all about money. with that goes eliminating kissing, so i can do that, i don't kiss 95% of my customers already.
but yeah, my methods of not getting jerks (too picky and A cups!) aren't really the best money-making techniques::) so now that i'm broadening my customer base, i'm bound to run into more jerks. i've been in the business on-and-off for 7 yrs but obviously still learning!

^^^ and thanks too chris, i did really feel bad but i'm glad i was honest so now i can see to change things :-X (closed lips)

stressed
09-08-2009, 08:05 PM
jajfklsdflk

lopaw
09-08-2009, 08:44 PM
I don't kiss 'n' tell. :ziplip:

chris91
09-08-2009, 11:10 PM
Laurcon says "i will try to think about that a little more in the future" If you're attracted to these particular guys as you've (courageously in here) stated, don't have a b/f and the guys are otherwise gentlemen - there is nothing wrong with it. You've probably made their day. and you've made some good money, and everyone's happy.

There is something wrong with it. It hurts my money. Everyone is not happy. Other dancers are very unhappy when they realize that they now have to compete with dancers who make out with customers. Have you read this thread?

MarvelGirl
09-08-2009, 11:38 PM
I apologize for saying that you're no better than the whores. You are clearly better.

See now, this is what irritates me. I am a whore. I didn't want to become a criminal and break the law so I went ahead and obtained the proper licenses. I had a sherrif's card and a business license labeling me a prostitute and that is something that will follow me around for the rest of my life all because I didn't want to work illegal or just be an "extras" girl in a strip club.

So, I get to be looked down upon by women who make out with customers or sell other sexual services because they're just "extras girls" or they just got "caught up in the moment". They're not a dirty whore like me. Nevermind that I would never do any of that in a club and that I pay a great deal of money to work legally, they're somehow better people than I am because they can just make cute little excuses about engaging in criminal activity and avoid using the words "whore" "prostitute" or "hooker" (which is absolutely what they are).

That just irritates me.

Almost Jaded
09-09-2009, 01:02 AM
There are plenty of us out there who appreciate the difference, and who don't use those terms - or their "civilian counterparts like "slut" - derogatorily. Some of us are even working hard to take them back, lol.

Unfortunately, the stigma is the stigma in all these cases, from "stripper" to "slut" to "whore". It's every bit as bad as racism at it's core; using a label to demean somebody for ANY reason is when you get down to it.

It's funny; I regard "extras girls" with extreme distaste, but I have all the respect in the world for professionals like you. I know other people who feel that way as well. Too bad there aren't more of us. :(

Earl_the_Pearl
09-09-2009, 02:29 AM
They offered you BJ's?Please tell us where,so we avoid the town.
Irvington.

Earl_the_Pearl
09-09-2009, 02:35 AM
It's funny; I regard "extras girls" with extreme distaste, but I have all the respect in the world for professionals like you. I know other people who feel that way as well. Too bad there aren't more of us. :(
Sounds like the ol' south; they respected the house salve wile regarding the field slave with extreme distaste.

Keep dem field slaves out'a da house.

xdamage
09-09-2009, 05:01 AM
I agree that when the other dancers in the club engage in more contact then the norm in the club, then the bar is raised for everyone in the club (and society wide). No one person changes the expectation. But the expectation of higher levels of contact has been a slow evolving increase all along because multiple people are engaging in behaviors that change the expectations. It's understandable to be pissed about how it effects ones income, but that said...

I also agree that the derogatory labels are undesirable regardless of who is pointing the finger at who. While we see differences in the acts, the general mindset remains a problem that we have the right to look down on each other and call each other degrading names. In this I see no difference at all between the religious do-gooder calling strippers names, and strippers calling prostitutes names. The focus should be on the business issue that does effect ones income, not the act which even if we don't personally engage in, doesn't give us the right to judge others who do.

Final related point is that in many cities and towns the laws regarding lap dancing have not changed even if the norms in the clubs have. In theory every dancer should research the laws for themselves because you might be surprised that even if the norms in the club involve x, y, or z, the local ordinances may not. What the dancers think of as "clean" in the club may be viewed as "dirty" by society. You could still end up arrested if LE gets it into their head to do so, and end up in a newspaper with an entire town pointing a finger at you calling you derogatory names. When the fingers are turned the other way then it becomes apparent why paragraph #2 above is hurtful.

Earl_the_Pearl
09-09-2009, 05:31 AM
What the dancers think of as "clean" in the club may be viewed as "dirty" by society.
Working in an environment that causes men to become aroused is a sin punishable by death in many cultures. They make no distinction between showing a woman's face or that face having a penis inserted in it.

I live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. The brave permit the face not only to be shown but to have a penis inserted in it; G-d blesses America.

P.S. The love you make is equal to the love you take.

chris91
09-09-2009, 06:36 AM
See now, this is what irritates me. I am a whore. I didn't want to become a criminal and break the law so I went ahead and obtained the proper licenses. I had a sherrif's card and a business license labeling me a prostitute and that is something that will follow me around for the rest of my life all because I didn't want to work illegal or just be an "extras" girl in a strip club.

So, I get to be looked down upon by women who make out with customers or sell other sexual services because they're just "extras girls" or they just got "caught up in the moment". They're not a dirty whore like me. Nevermind that I would never do any of that in a club and that I pay a great deal of money to work legally, they're somehow better people than I am because they can just make cute little excuses about engaging in criminal activity and avoid using the words "whore" "prostitute" or "hooker" (which is absolutely what they are).

That just irritates me.

To clarify, I was only talking about the girls who sell sex in strip clubs. I have no problem with girls who do it anywhere else and call it what it is.

xdamage
09-09-2009, 07:24 AM
Working in an environment that causes men to become aroused is a sin punishable by death in many cultures.

EtP always going for the shock value. But... yes, people in our culture take personal credit for whatever degree of liberalism they feel in regards to sex, but it is easy to forget that they're benefiting statistically from multiple generations of people before them (who they may look at as prudes, but forget that the generation before them also pushed boundaries relative to what the society as a whole thinks of as dirty and clean).

Put another way, people often blame society for their choices but take personal credit when it is convenient, but if I had to gamble, I'd gamble that 98% of the dancers today, if raised 3-4 generations ago, would be dramatically effected by their society, and just as few women before them would choose to dance, nor would the majority of those who do so today. And of those who do so today, their definition of clean dancing vs the definition of those before them has changed dramatically.

But on the flip side, winding ahead to the future, it is also not hard to imagine our society become increasingly more sexual liberal like the Dutch, and a future generation of women laughing at the generation of strippers who were too prudish to be prostitutes. And all the while, there will remain cultures like those in the middle east where the arbitrary line in the sand says even dressing attractively makes a woman a [fill in the blank].

That's why it is important though not to judge or take ourselves too seriously. There are things that are scientifically risky (e.g., fluid exchanges with multiple people, I get why people see that as "dirty"), but much else is just arbitrary social norms.

laurcon
09-09-2009, 09:03 AM
hey marvel, i think what you did is awesome and takes courage. i don't think "we" (strippers) look down on escorts/prostitutes except when they're in our club. personally, i would LOVE prostitution to be legal everywhere so everyone could just be honest and do what they want. what makes us angry is the extra girls who do stuff that then make people assume all strippers are really undercover prostitutes. i feel like chris was saying i was better than "whores" at strip clubs that are like "i'm giving hand jobs and i don't give a fuck about anyone else!" because i saw it was affecting other people and decided to stop kissing any custie.
i'm sorry if you were offended marvel, but you def have my support :)

xdamage
09-09-2009, 11:37 AM
...personally, i would LOVE prostitution to be legal everywhere so everyone could just be honest and do what they want. ..:)

Actually I wish there were two kinds of clubs.

One where prostitution is legal (aka Brothels) along with whatever else sellers want to negotiate for, even just teasing if that is what the customer wants.

The other where the law clearly limits what is allowed, and the limits strongly enforced.

Then guys who are in relationships who don't want to have to deal with any doubts about what is going on can go to the later. Those who go the former can battle it out with their SOs if their SOs don't approve of them buying sex (or wonder why they didn't go to the SC if there was no sex).

Put the choices side by side, and let the free market decide which succeeds, which fails, or maybe both succeed.

I suspect club owners and dancers might like a bit more differentiation to protect their income, but from the PoV of keeping government out our business, and giving people the choice, my suggested separation is fair and does not favor either business. It lets the free market decide; people deciding for themselves what they want, not a few businesses or special interest groups deciding for us.

It does mean SCs might fail if it turns out customers mostly want prostitutes. That's the risk of a free market but it is not a guarantee. Could be there are enough customers who would still go to SCs only because they have moral qualms with prostitution, because the dancers on average look better? (not sure if that would be true but maybe), other reasons? And if marriage laws declared using brothels as grounds for an adultery case, that would further give SCs the edge that SC employees and ICs may want.

But if it is to work then it would also require SC owners, other dancers, and LE to stop looking the other way when extras happen and start reporting it. Otherwise SCs will remain safe havens for extras. As it is now everyone complains of extras but it is unclear how many people report it vs just letting it go for fear of the retaliation and negative impacts of having LE crawling all over the place.

JayATee
09-09-2009, 01:12 PM
See now, this is what irritates me. I am a whore. I didn't want to become a criminal and break the law so I went ahead and obtained the proper licenses. I had a sherrif's card and a business license labeling me a prostitute and that is something that will follow me around for the rest of my life all because I didn't want to work illegal or just be an "extras" girl in a strip club.

So, I get to be looked down upon by women who make out with customers or sell other sexual services because they're just "extras girls" or they just got "caught up in the moment". They're not a dirty whore like me. Nevermind that I would never do any of that in a club and that I pay a great deal of money to work legally, they're somehow better people than I am because they can just make cute little excuses about engaging in criminal activity and avoid using the words "whore" "prostitute" or "hooker" (which is absolutely what they are).

That just irritates me.

I have the utmost respect for you because of how you did this. The fact that you cared enough to get your sherrif's card and everything says a lot about you. I have no issue with prostitution, especially when it's done legally. I do have an issue with extras girls though. When guys come to me wanting a dance after some girl last week sucked him off in the back room and all I do is dance that guy is never going to come back to me for a dance, and he's not going to want to pay me what I am owed, or he's possibly going to be abusive in one way or another towards me bc so and so did it last week and Im ripping him off. It's getting more and more difficult to make money as a clean dancer. Hearing about extras ITC infuriates me bc I know my money is suffering.

jack0177057
09-09-2009, 03:12 PM
I have the utmost respect for you because of how you did this. The fact that you cared enough to get your sherrif's card and everything says a lot about you. I have no issue with prostitution, especially when it's done legally. I do have an issue with extras girls though. When guys come to me wanting a dance after some girl last week sucked him off in the back room and all I do is dance that guy is never going to come back to me for a dance, and he's not going to want to pay me what I am owed, or he's possibly going to be abusive in one way or another towards me bc so and so did it last week and Im ripping him off. It's getting more and more difficult to make money as a clean dancer. Hearing about extras ITC infuriates me bc I know my money is suffering.

How many guys are like this? I think most guys know that there are couple of girls in every club that offer extras, but that most of the dancers do not. I've been offered extras many times and never taken the bait, not because I have any moral objection to prostitution, but because I'm too cheap to spend $300-$500 on a 10-minute thrill.

Personally, I don't care which dancers do and which don't offer extras. I just want to spend time with a hottie that knows how to smile, maintain direct eye contact, have an interesting conversation, be playful and has a positive and charming personality. I admit that I do enjoy high-contact during the dances, but, low-contact dances from a really cool dancer are also fine with me.

Sectumsempra
09-09-2009, 03:22 PM
I've made out with 3 strippers, ever, since i started doing this.

Girls here in Dallas are way more likely to put their nipples in your mouth then their tongues.

I've had about a 20% success rate as far as getting mouth-boob action. And this is included in the standard $20. Hand-boob action success rate here, FWIW is about 50-60%

Actual kissing is FAR more rare.

Elvia
09-09-2009, 03:26 PM
Laurcon says "i will try to think about that a little more in the future" If you're attracted to these particular guys as you've (courageously in here) stated, don't have a b/f and the guys are otherwise gentlemen - there is nothing wrong with it. You've probably made their day. and you've made some good money, and everyone's happy. There is too much misery in the world to worry about 2 people enjoying kissing each other, and in the situation where its a regular deal between customer and dancer, it really can be incredible. Ok some girls can really fake it, so what.

Kissing, even in such an odd situation, if anything represents an advancement in human development, part of the beginning of face to face human interaction and contact, which led to pair bonding and subsequent advancements in civilization, and it should be celebrated not condemned.

How about you let the people who actually have to work in the industry decide what's best for those of who actually work in the industry, mkay? You clearly don't give a damn if breaking the rules makes for a more difficult and unfair and unsafe working environment for the dancers.

xdamage
09-09-2009, 03:33 PM
How many guys are like this? ...

Yea but it's not about absolutes. It's about statistical changes over long periods of time. Even if you don't partake, and even if not all dancers do it, social changes (and expectations on smaller scales, like in SCs) change (or in this case erode) over time. Younger customers with no preconceived notions hear you can get sex, hand jobs, whatever; younger dancers come in thinking it's okay because other girls do it, etc. You might say no way, but those of who remember SCs back when they were only stage shows remember the slow increase in contact that lead to what is considered "normal" today, a fairly high level of grind and two way contact. No one person is responsible for that; often the laws in the cities/towns have not even caught up with it; but today's normal expectations of a lap dance would have appalled dancers 25 years ago.

JayATee
09-09-2009, 03:35 PM
How many guys are like this? I think most guys know that there are couple of girls in every club that offer extras, but that most of the dancers do not. I've been offered extras many times and never taken the bait, not because I have any moral objection to prostitution, but because I'm too cheap to spend $300-$500 on a 10-minute thrill.

Personally, I don't care which dancers do and which don't offer extras. I just want to spend time with a hottie that knows how to smile, maintain direct eye contact, have an interesting conversation, be playful and has a positive and charming personality. I admit that I do enjoy high-contact during the dances, but, low-contact dances from a really cool dancer are also fine with me.

What's the difference how many? It just takes one guy to assault me. Also, you can feel however you want on the subject. That's the beauty of living in a free country. Since you're a patron how you feel is irrelevant to the dancers that are working.

Earl_the_Pearl
09-09-2009, 03:56 PM
How about you let the people who actually have to work in the industry decide what's best for those of who actually work in the industry, mkay? You clearly don't give a damn if breaking the rules makes for a more difficult and unfair and unsafe working environment for the dancers.
What is best for an aging dancer is not necessarily best for a young one.

Naida
09-09-2009, 03:57 PM
Pick an ugmo one who's hard up on cash. Girls who make money don't need to do that shit.

I'm hard up for cash, but I STILL wouldn't sink to that level! Just still need some work on my hustlin' skillz... ::)

Well-known regulars, I could possibly understand. I think that, once you get to really know some one over time, it's pretty much each to their own. Myself personally, in the far off future, could imagine giving a long time regular a peck on the lips, but I would never make out with anyone from the SC.

A random customer though... That's just utterly tasteless. Girls who can do that have zero class. It's not just skanky, but stupid too. You never know where that mouth has been. For all you know, he could have just got done sucking an HIV positive dick. He could have any number of oral diseases and infections. All the possibilties... GROSS!

Earl_the_Pearl
09-09-2009, 04:01 PM
but today's normal expectations of a lap dance would have appalled dancers 25 years ago.
I remember when there were no LDs; today's dancers would not want to go back to a stage only show; they want to hustle PLs plane and simple.

Elvia
09-09-2009, 04:09 PM
What is best for an aging dancer is not necessarily best for a young one.

If they can't make a living while working within the rules, they need to leave the industry. Anyone, regardless of age, who can't make any money in a strip club without resorting to extras needs to just leave the club and work in the appropriate sex industry venue.

Earl_the_Pearl
09-09-2009, 04:12 PM
If they can't make a living while working within the rules, they need to leave the industry.
Changes in latitude changes in attitude. In fact even in the same club the rules change from day shift to night shift.

Elvia
09-09-2009, 04:15 PM
^^^ And that's more often not in the best interest of the dancers overall. That's the point. It sucks to be hired under certain conditions, and then discover that the environment is such that you can't survive without doing extras because the club is so accepting of them that it's become standard practice. Girls can get themselves into debt with the clubs that way.

Naida
09-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Elvia, not all dancers have the utter contempt and bitterness towards customers I see repeatedly in many of your posts, and if they did, I wouldn't even bother with strip clubs.

I wouldn't call it "bitterness and contempt", per se. I don't think any dancer views customers in the club much differently than a waitress views customers in a restaraunt. We're bitter and bitchy about the shit ones, but do offer up the ocassional, genuine smile for the good ones.

I could be wrong, but this is from my observations as a new dancer and a previous "service industry" worker. The girls at work and I do talk shit specific shit about the grabby/stuck-up/mysognistic assholes, have a poor opinion of customers in general, but do give compliments about the ones that were nice (good tips, no grabbing, etc).

JayATee
09-09-2009, 04:40 PM
I remember when there were no LDs; today's dancers would not want to go back to a stage only show; they want to hustle PLs plane and simple.


Ugh, there's a reason I have you on ignore, but the mere fact that you think you know enough to say this as fact is absurd. Take a look at the pole in this thread http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthread.php?t=134437. There are many of us who would do a stage only show. And in this thread there are many who prefer low contact. http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthread.php?t=135298

You're clueless and it would be appreciated if you would stop arguing with us just to prove that you're a PL of the worst kind.

xdamage
09-09-2009, 05:00 PM
I remember when there were no LDs; today's dancers would not want to go back to a stage only show; they want to hustle PLs plane and simple.

I don't think that is universally true. I think some like it the way it is, but many have said they wished there were more clubs that required less contact (or none).

mediocrity
09-09-2009, 05:11 PM
I find it extraordinarily amusing that every single thread turns into the exact same argument.

jack0177057
09-09-2009, 05:15 PM
What's the difference how many? It just takes one guy to assault me.

If dancers offering extras at your club leads to you being assaulted, then I'll agree with you that it shouldn't happen.

Of course, it is a very competitive business. Whether its extras or just more "contact", someone is always going to be willing to do a little more to get the customers. Maybe a girl is less pretty, a little bigger or a little older, and she has to develop other skillsets to compete with the younger, thinner and better looking set. Or maybe she is just more aggressive and competitive. Competition is also the "beauty of living in a free country".

princessjas
09-09-2009, 05:19 PM
A free country with LAWS! Laws that I do not want to break in order to avoid sexual assault.

jack0177057
09-09-2009, 05:22 PM
I don't think that is universally true. I think some like it the way it is, but many have said they wished there were more clubs that required less contact (or none).

If they could make the same amount of money with less or zero contact, of course they would choose less or zero contact. It's work. We all want to make the most amount of money for the least amount of work. Every job has become more demanding than it used to be a decade ago, though.

princessjas
09-09-2009, 05:29 PM
If they could make the same amount of money with less or zero contact, of course they would choose less or zero contact. It's work. We all want to make the most amount of money for the least amount of work. Every job has become more demanding than it used to be a decade ago, though.

Not the same thing AT ALL!!! I'll gladly do 30 min or hour long sets with all night....I've done up to 90min on stage at a time to avoid laps. THAT is asking us to work hard. You are asking us to break the law and go against some of our moral standards.

It's comparable to asking an accountant to embezzel money while you are acting as if it is like asking him to work 10hr days. I'll do the 10 hr days, but not break the law and go against my personal sense of right and wrong.

We could go to JAIL for christsakes!! Is it that fucking hard to understand? :banghead:

jack0177057
09-09-2009, 05:31 PM
A free country with LAWS! Laws that I do not want to break in order to avoid sexual assault.

Agreed. But, where is the line between high contact and extras? Technically, any contact is a crime in many places.

Is a dancer putting my hands on her breasts an extra or just high contact? What about her rubbing her nipples on my face and lips? Or stroking my penis over my clothes? (Is it a matter of how long she does it? -- 1 sec vs. 3 minutes?) Is making-out an extra?

princessjas
09-09-2009, 05:37 PM
Agreed. But, where is the line between high contact and extras? Technically, any contact is a crime in many places.

Is a dancer putting my hands on her breasts an extra or just high contact? What about her rubbing her nipples on my face and lips? Or stroking my penis over my clothes? (Is it a matter of how long she does it? -- 1 sec vs. 3 minutes?) Is making-out an extra?

I DON'T let guys touch my breasts. Anything covered by a bikini is off limits. Even a girl who does allow minimal touching of back, arms, etc, in an area where it is against the law..well she has a very low chance of going to jail, where the girl making out and doing obvious extras will get busted over and over.

I've worked in clubs and seen it. Cops don't usually give a shit (except maybe before elections in places like Vegas) as long as you aren't doing what is pretty basically defined as an extra by dancers. I've actually been told that by a few police officers...one who told me they were ready to bust the place and to dump my drink because I was underage...It was the kissing, handjobs, girls letting guys finger them, that got busted. (No blowjobs going on that night I guess.)

ETA - To answer your question, most girls I've worked with define extras as kissing, touching anything covered by a bikini, touching the customer through his pants, etc.

ETA 2 - Quit acting like a freakin lawyer. I've got the fucking flu and don't feel like arguing over stupidly obvious shit. You have some common sense! Use it!

jack0177057
09-09-2009, 05:40 PM
You are asking us to break the law and go against some of our moral standards.

I'm not. I never ask for anything. Seriously,.. In fact, I turn down some things that are offered to me...


It's comparable to asking an accountant to embezzel money while you are acting as if it is like asking him to work 10hr days. I'll do the 10 hr days, but not break the law and go against my personal sense of right and wrong.

Not to be argumentative, but accountants and lawyers are asked to break the laws all the time, and they actually do on many many occasions. The big accounting firms all engage in complex tax shelter schemes for rich clients. That has slowed a little after Arthur Anderson's downfall, but it was very prevalent.

princessjas
09-09-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm not. I never ask for anything. Seriously,.. In fact, I turn down some things that are offered to me...



Not to be argumentative, but accountants and lawyers are asked to break the laws all the time, and they actually do on many many occasions. The big accounting firms all engage in complex tax shelter schemes for rich clients. That has slowed a little after Arthur Anderson's downfall, but it was very prevalent.

So your argument is: Because there are criminals out there, we shouldn't mind being ask or expected to break the law...Really? ::)

Don't be ridiculous.

My soon to be ex was a Financial Analyst..well manager really, so I know all about that crap. He turned down one job with a HUGE pay raise a few years ago because he would be expected to do things that skirted the law. Many people in all different professions have some standards they refuse to break and aren't ever assaulted over it.

jack0177057
09-09-2009, 05:45 PM
ETA 2 - Quit acting like a freakin lawyer. I've got the fucking flu and don't feel like arguing over stupidly obvious shit. You have some common sense! Use it!

Its not so obvious to me because I don't go to SC that often... (Too busy working and chatting on SW.) But, I'll stop.... I hope you feel better...

jack0177057
09-09-2009, 05:50 PM
So your argument is: Because there are criminals out there, we shouldn't mind being ask or expected to break the law...Really?

Again, you're picking on the wrong guy... I turn down extras, not ask for them...

My point about unreasonable (and illegal) customer demands is that we all have to deal with that shit, not that we should oblige... We can make more money by "playing ball" or we can tell the customer (and his money)to fuck off...

I hope you feel better...

mediocrity
09-09-2009, 05:50 PM
Rub my nipples and I will break your fingers. My personal definition of "extras" is:

Rubbing of bikini areas over or under.
Kissing.
Rubbing of penis through clothes and/or blowing hot air on it.
Hand jobs.
Blow Jobs.
FS.
Receiving oral.

Funny enough, my current S.O. works with me (ssh.) and when we went to breakfast last night after shift, he was rather astounded at what he saw, as was I. I guess since I am always flying around doing my own thing, I don't pay attention to what other girls do.

The only time it affects me is when, as many other girls have said, men get all pouty faced when I won't do what the previous girl did. I believe in a homogenous set of rules for everyone where the playing field is even for everyone to make money.

However he did bring up one specific instance, where he saw a girl being stroked down below by a rather old customer over her biniki area. I guess I will never get this. I know the dude is trying to get the chick off for some odd reason. But does he really expect her to enjoy it from some decrepit gross dude? My biggest pet peeve is when guys tell me "But I want you to feel good!".

Ps. I don't want to "feel good". If I want that I can go home with my 22yr old hot piece and feel like I've won a prize everytime I open my eyes when we are having sex.

princessjas
09-09-2009, 05:52 PM
Again, you're picking on the wrong guy... I turn down extras, not ask for them...

My point about unreasonable (and illegal) customer demands is that we all have to deal with that shit, not that we should oblige... We can make more money by "playing ball" or we can tell the customer (and his money)to fuck off...

I hope you feel better...

I wasn't picking on you. I realize you said you don't ask for extras. I was just responding to your defense of those that do...and I seriously doubt other professions are ask on a daily basis to break the law...It really just isn't comparable.

xdamage
09-09-2009, 05:56 PM
If they could make the same amount of money with less or zero contact, of course they would choose less or zero contact. It's work. We all want to make the most amount of money for the least amount of work. Every job has become more demanding than it used to be a decade ago, though.

It's unique though because no other job has you sharing your body with others in this same way. Working harder, agreed, everyone needs to do so to compete. Allowing people to use your body like a sexual jungle gym is not really about expecting people to work harder as much as it is expecting them to lose their sense of personal limits which few of us would tolerate.

chris91
09-09-2009, 07:11 PM
I remember when there were no LDs; today's dancers would not want to go back to a stage only show; they want to hustle PLs plane and simple.

Earl, if you are ever in New Orleans, come see me. Bring your wallet, and I will give you the beat down that you so clearly desire.

Elvia
09-09-2009, 07:23 PM
I wouldn't call it "bitterness and contempt", per se. I don't think any dancer views customers in the club much differently than a waitress views customers in a restaraunt. We're bitter and bitchy about the shit ones, but do offer up the ocassional, genuine smile for the good ones.

I could be wrong, but this is from my observations as a new dancer and a previous "service industry" worker. The girls at work and I do talk shit specific shit about the grabby/stuck-up/mysognistic assholes, have a poor opinion of customers in general, but do give compliments about the ones that were nice (good tips, no grabbing, etc).


I actually have a pretty good opinion, in general, of the custies at my club, and most of the ones I've danced at. But I realize that has a lot to do with the area I work in. I know in some other places,they make it a lot harder for you. If I had to deal with some of the things so many girls describe here, I don't think I could say that.