View Full Version : WHY stimulus hasn't and won't work.
Melonie
10-15-2009, 03:49 AM
If that's the case, why is it that many countries which spend far more money on welfare per capita than the US does, have far lower crime rates and far lower illegitimacy rates?
As Eric Stoner has pointed out on many previous occasions, such countries A. have populations of primarily native born 'poor' who are well assimilated into the country's culture, B. have extremely strict immigration controls which limit the 'growth rate' of the 'poor', and C. do not 'penalize' poor mothers with children for being married !
On the crime issue, there is also the 'Le Zone' factor where crime exists but is officially ignored by the police. Yet another example of 'official statistics' diverging from reality.
There is nothing ideological about a 'carrot' and a 'stick'. If social welfare benefit eligibility rules reward certain types of behavior ( like having additional children increasing the size of checks ) and punish other types of behavior ( like getting married jeopardizing future checks ) then surprise surprise you wind up with high illegitimate birth rates.
Eric Stoner
10-15-2009, 08:38 AM
For many families, public assistance makes a major difference. Many families would not have enough to eat and many families would not be able to afford a place to live without public assistance.
The purpose of welfare is not to reduce illegitimacy. It's purpose is to provide assistance for poor people. The best way to reduce illegitimacy is to educate children about how to prevent unwanted pregnancies using contraception, and providing everyone with contraception who needs it. Other countries that do this have far lower rates of illegitimacy than we do here. Unfortunately we have many people in this country, including the previous president, who are adamantly opposed to this.
I think you might be confusing two different things : A. The palliative effect of public assistance in preventing outright destitution and B. poverty reduction. You and I agree that the purpose of welfare is "A" and I think we agree that it does nothing to promote "B". In fact , BEFORE Welfare Reform it promoted poverty by encouraging illegitimacy. Afaic, welfare for the poor is the least of our current problems. Note I said: "For the POOR".
I'm in substantial agreement with you about using education to prevent illegitimacy. Aside from the Bush Administration promoting Faith over Facts , which was bad enough. One big part of that education ought to be making it clear how certain a life of poverty will be as a result of illegitimacy. Regardless of whose figures you use, a teenage, unwed mother is at least 90% likely to live a COMPLETE lifetime in poverty. Some surveys have it even higher. And if she drops out of high school AND has a teenage pregnancy it's close to 99%. That makes escaping poverty in those circumstances almost impossible.
Here's the real sad part; state and local funding for teen pregnancy prevention and to prevent dropping out has already been cut in many areas and is in jeopardy in many others. To me, that's a classic case of being penny wise and pound foolish because the pregnant H.S. drop-outs AND their children are just going to fill up the welfare rolls. It would have been smart if some of the Stimulus money went to maintain and even expand such programs. Of course it didn't. Unborn children doomed to a life of poverty don't vote. Neither do most of their mothers.
threlayer
10-25-2009, 02:36 PM
And we need the Federal Government to collect and redistribute the SAME money, WHY ?
Frankly because they have the IRS and the military. Anyway that was not the purpose of the post.
Govt does things for the public that private enterprise or we individually cannot or will not, including controlling the vandals at the gates.
Eric Stoner
11-04-2009, 01:40 PM
Another 200,000 new unemployment claims announced today from those whose jobs weren't "saved" by Obama.
Johnson and Johnson, a usually recession resilient company is laying off 7,000.
Melonie
11-04-2009, 04:37 PM
^^^ and that doesn't count the number of 'officially unemployed' Americans who are technically no longer 'officially unemployed' ... because their 72 weeks ( or whatever it is now ) of unemployment benefit eligibility has finally expired thus kicking them off the 'official unemployment' rolls despite the fact that they still haven't landed a replacement job !
Next stop for them is probably the local welfare / medicaid / public housing / utility bill assistance office !
Deogol
11-04-2009, 06:14 PM
How the unemployment figure is calculated:
Earl_the_Pearl
11-04-2009, 08:26 PM
I filed my 2007 and 2008 taxes late because if I filed on time the checks would have sent to my ex. My lawyer Rachel made it right so I just got stimulated to the tune of $300 and I do mean stimulated. :hyper:
I'm going to get stimulated to the tune of $250 soon; dancers rejoice my stimulation can be your stimulation. We stimulate each other. ;)
Eric Stoner
11-13-2009, 08:33 AM
If you look at Obama's stimulus package it does noithing but reward failure and punish success.
Wall St. Failure- Rewarded
Auto Industry Failure- Rewarded
Free Spending States- Rewarded
Obama and the Dems are using a "demand" model that collects funds via taxes which individuals and businesses rearrange their behavior to avoid. We're going to go from a 35% to a 45% top marginal tax rate. How are we going to have capitalism without capital ?
The stimulus spending in Massachusetts was recently analyzed. Nobody could find a single "new" job that was created . All the "saved' jobs were in government which are ultimately liabilities for taxpayers.
When Eisenhower was President the top marginal tax rate was 91% and we had three recessions in the 50's. JFK cut the top rate to 70% and we did not have a single major recession in the 60's. But we had one little ( 70-71 ) and two large recessions in the 70's ( '74-75 ) and ( '79- 82 ).
After Reagan's tax cuts we had one short, mild recession under Papa Bush ( '91-92 ) and a more serious one in 2000-1. That's about 25 years of prosperity.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-13-2009, 10:08 PM
If you look at Obama's stimulus package it does noithing but reward failure and punish success.
May the Saints perverse him. I just got stimulated with my last tax return and will get stimulated again soon. New Jersey is also stimulating me; I thank you 1000 times again for that.
With that $1000 I can get stimulated from one end of Market Street to the other. Where is that can of oysters?