View Full Version : diet vs exercise - what do you believe?
GlitterBexie
10-07-2009, 10:26 AM
Personally, Im a bit of a fan of the ''everything in moderation'' school of thought, i can diet/starve/excersize like a machine an i only end up looking poorly.
Since i've been eating better ; more fresh fruit and veg and cutting down on sugary rubbish and alcohol combined with a few hours hard/gentle excersize a week, i look better than i ever have (or i think so anyway haha!)
It doesn't stop me eating what i fancy every now and again or having a good night out but i know if i stuff my face with rubbish ill end up looking like a piggy again, coz im quite short a few pounds makes me look like a sack of potato's, but since ive been doing different kinds of excersize (pole dance & swimming) ive changed shape and toned up!
miabella
10-09-2009, 02:31 AM
Looks like they couldn't prove it for $20k. http://www.anthonycolpo.com/Eades_Admits_Anthony_Colpo_Was_Right_On_Calories.h tml Just like Atkins, Burroughs and Oz.
it is rigged. peer-review is, well, reliant on peers to be cool enough to concur with your approach. you may be following the scientific method very precisely and coming to conclusions your peers don't like. you have to rely on them to be ok with the method and not pre-judge.
i can see why dr. eades said what he said. humans aren't flawless. peer review is a good method, but it is in fact not perfect when conclusions conflict with conventional medicine (even if it does not follow the scientific method-- dr. eades has plenty of links regarding that aspect of many studies).
Raphaelle
10-09-2009, 06:33 PM
The general rule of thumb is that FAT loss (there is a difference between fat loss and weight loss) is 10% genetics, 10% exercise and 80% diet.
The reason that fitness models don't have to try as hard to keep in shape is because their bodies are made up of mostly muscle. A pound of muscle burns twice as many calories as a pound of fat. This is why you really shouldn't pay much attention to how many pounds you weigh and should concentrate more on your body fat %. You can get a scale that measures your body fat % or there are calculators online if you google them.
If you starve yourself or cut out whole food groups, you may lose WEIGHT but that doesn't mean you're losing fat. Lots of times, it's your body eating your muscles for fuel. This is especially true for people on low carb diets. Your body needs good sugars (vegetables, fruit, whole grain products) for energy and if it doesn't get the energy from those foods, it actually starts eating your muscles for fuel. Less muscles = less calories burned at your next workout.
Eat a well balenced diet and eat small and frequent meals to keep your energy up. It may take some getting used to because North Americans are so used to eating 2 or 3 times the portion they should and eating 3 square meals a day. Eating 5 or 6 small meals a day will keep you full all day with loads of energy.
princessjas
10-11-2009, 08:27 AM
it is rigged. peer-review is, well, reliant on peers to be cool enough to concur with your approach. you may be following the scientific method very precisely and coming to conclusions your peers don't like. you have to rely on them to be ok with the method and not pre-judge.
i can see why dr. eades said what he said. humans aren't flawless. peer review is a good method, but it is in fact not perfect when conclusions conflict with conventional medicine (even if it does not follow the scientific method-- dr. eades has plenty of links regarding that aspect of many studies).
I read through some of this stuff and some other research that says veggie is best and some that says we are intended to be omnivores and should stick with both in moderation. (All evidence points to the fact that our species IS omnivorous.)
I have known so many people that feel and look their best with different diets that I really am starting to believe that evolution may have something to do with this. Possibly the different areas in which our ancestors lived encouraged different diets and different groups started to evolve to maximize their bodies potential on each groups individual diets. Being a fairly young species, it seems reasonable that no group would have completely evolved to their native diet, but that it certainly could have started.
Maybe my ancestors were herbivores, some were carnivores, some omnivores and maybe even some of us are evolved to consume mainly grains. After all there are something like 2000 native species of grain in Africa.
miabella
10-15-2009, 11:52 PM
no, the anthropology says we were all hunter-gatherers. that part is 100% provable from the bone records (examination and dating of bones that are dug up). we definitely ate lots of meat and some fibrous vegetables and fruits in the olden pre-agricultural times.
people have looked long and hard for pre-agricultural vegetarian cultures. none exist. post-agricultural cultures that are mostly-vegetarian die younger than meat-heavy ones and have lots of tooth problems. also provable from the bones.
you can start with weston a price's book 'nutrition and physical degeneration'. he took pictures and did studies of multiple cultures (white, black, asian, native american and hispanic, in modern racial terminology).
i mean, i could sit here and list study after study in Real Journals like the Lancet (premier British medical journal) or the American Journal of Medicine, and loads of other 'high-status' journals. They show repeatedly that cholesterol (i.e. animal fats) consumption is beneficial for humans, that insulin resistance is mediated (relieved) with reduced carb consumption, to low-carb levels (i.e. dropping the grains and only getting carbs from fruits and fibrous vegetables).
or i could recommend you stop into your nearest Barnes and Noble and flip through "Primal Body-Primal Mind". That book has lists of highly technical references and studies from actual journals (not obscure stuff that isn't well-regarded by mainstream science and medicine) illustrating the benefits of animal fats consumption and reduced carb intake.
i don't even say you need to buy it, just flip to the references section and check a few of them out for yourself.
diet is complicated and individual, but animal fats are definitely not the enemy. processed vegetable fats like canola or soybean oil definitely are, though.
Gia2608
10-15-2009, 11:58 PM
Every body is different. I have worked out since my early teens and deprive myself of: Red meat, desert, chocolate, cheese, milk and dairy and potatoes and bread and pork... the list goes on.
I have lost a lot of weight but it's very diffucult. I have been tested for diabetes and thyroid issues. I'm just built like this. I can get skinny for me or pretty muscular but I will never ever be a skinny girl in fact I have a tendency for fat to build up on my stomach upper arms, and legs/ butt.
I have a gf that I should post pics but won't with abs and wears a size two and drinks alcohol all the time and eats garbage and never works out. She seriously has a models' body naturally.
miabella
10-16-2009, 12:02 AM
i saw a vegan athlete with abs-- and saddlebags. it was very disconcerting, like an optical illusion or something.
princessjas
10-16-2009, 04:41 AM
^^Odd. Most vegans I know are not very muscular, but are very, very thin and I've never seen one with noticable fat anywhere on their body. However, the vegetarians I know tend to be in MUCH better shape than the general public, lean and muscular. I can't think of one "skinny fat" one to be honest. I'm probably the least in shape of all the vegs I know, and I I lift 3 days a week and have had no issues upping the lbs to a very respectable level.
You can keep being stubborn and saying your way is better for everyone, but evidence says it's not. Evidence does point to some doing better on that diet, but for every article you can pull up saying your diet is best, I can find one saying mine is, and a few others saying some other diet is optimal. I'm unsure why you seem unable to grasp the simple fact that EVERYONE isn't going to thrive on any one particular diet. Personally the fact that my body tries to turn itself inside out if I consume meat (& always has, even as an infant), tells me that meat is NOT what it needs, but I digress...you obviously aren't going to listen to anything anyone else says anyway.
BTW - Just love the "no." Comes across like you are god and have all the definite answers....just sounds very, very arrogant, but then I've found all your posts on this topic, in this thread and others to sound that way.
PJ, you are absolutely right. No one diet is right for EVERYBODY! And like Gia said, I also know women who eat complete garbage, get wasted every night, and look like supermodels. Personally, I don't like to eat a ton of meat, I'm a firm believer in tons of fruits and vegetables, and maybe some salmon, chicken, or tuna on the side.
Bluegrassgirl
10-16-2009, 06:41 AM
After working in the health care field long enough, I have learned that there's all sorts of science and research behind EVERYTHING....
In regards to diet or exercise, whatever YOU will consistently do that works with YOUR lifestyle is what's best and most effective in your life...
Sure, eating a lean diet is likely ideal. Exercising three to four times a week is ideal. Not eating junky foods and living in a stress-free zen lifestyle is ideal...
But, not all of us are going to do all of those things and if we try, we might fail and wind up heavier and more unhappy with our bodies than if we simply accept our lifestyle patterns and accept what works for us as individuals...
I am inspired by the super heavy folks who simply eat McDonalds only once a day instead of 5 times a day and that's how they lose their first hundred pounds...and as they change their weight their goals change. Their lifestyles change. Their priorities change. So do the habits that they can realistically develop at certain points in their life...and eventually they wind up looking pretty darn hot!
mediocrity
10-16-2009, 06:01 PM
Every body is different. I have worked out since my early teens and deprive myself of: Red meat, desert, chocolate, cheese, milk and dairy and potatoes and bread and pork... the list goes on.
I have lost a lot of weight but it's very diffucult. I have been tested for diabetes and thyroid issues. I'm just built like this. I can get skinny for me or pretty muscular but I will never ever be a skinny girl in fact I have a tendency for fat to build up on my stomach upper arms, and legs/ butt.
I have a gf that I should post pics but won't with abs and wears a size two and drinks alcohol all the time and eats garbage and never works out. She seriously has a models' body naturally.
This is me. Me and whiskey are best friends. But it doesn't make me fat. It's bizarre.
miabella
10-16-2009, 06:32 PM
^^Odd. Most vegans I know are not very muscular, but are very, very thin and I've never seen one with noticable fat anywhere on their body. However, the vegetarians I know tend to be in MUCH better shape than the general public, lean and muscular. I can't think of one "skinny fat" one to be honest. I'm probably the least in shape of all the vegs I know, and I I lift 3 days a week and have had no issues upping the lbs to a very respectable level.
You can keep being stubborn and saying your way is better for everyone, but evidence says it's not. Evidence does point to some doing better on that diet, but for every article you can pull up saying your diet is best, I can find one saying mine is, and a few others saying some other diet is optimal. I'm unsure why you seem unable to grasp the simple fact that EVERYONE isn't going to thrive on any one particular diet. Personally the fact that my body tries to turn itself inside out if I consume meat (& always has, even as an infant), tells me that meat is NOT what it needs, but I digress...you obviously aren't going to listen to anything anyone else says anyway.
BTW - Just love the "no." Comes across like you are god and have all the definite answers....just sounds very, very arrogant, but then I've found all your posts on this topic, in this thread and others to sound that way.
Hey, I'll keep trusting the scientific data and you can keep trusting your anecdotes and we can call it a day. 8)
I have said I speak in terms of aggregates and general populations, and have said if an individual feels they thrive on a modern diet, that is well for them. So do stop being arrogant and accusing me of intent I don't possess and implications I haven't put forth.
You seem to be the one invested in an arrogant presumption of what others say or mean when they speak about diet. I speak in terms of science and history and biology and anthropology, not anecdotes and endlessly confoundable observations.
princessjas
10-16-2009, 06:51 PM
Hey, I'll keep trusting the scientific data and you can keep trusting your anecdotes and we can call it a day. 8)
Whatever. My point, was that different studies prove different diets ideal. Hell, I can probably find a study that is pro and one that is con for almost every supposed "health food" out there. For each study you can pull up that shows that your diet is ideal, I can pull up one that says mine is best and at least a few more that says something else is. There is so much conflicting data out there, no one knows for sure what is best, just what works best for them. Most of us aren't arrogant enough to think we know what works best for everyone else though. You're kinda unique there. 8)
BTW - Google scholar is my friend. If you don't believe me on the conflicting data take a gander at what is out there. I spent some time seeing if your statements were correct and was suprised to find that yes, some data does back it, but as I have said, found a lot that said other diets were superior too. The "actual scientific data" is just too all over the place for anyone even come close to knowing, so we can hypothesize forever, but it isn't gonna go anywhere.
Candy Girl
10-16-2009, 07:33 PM
Very educational discussion, ladies. Thanks for sharing. Has definitely given me choices to think about.
lexXe
10-17-2009, 11:14 AM
For me it's definitely exercise over diet. When I'm working out a lot, I can get away with a couple really bad eating days a week and still look great! If I eat very clean and don't do anything physical, I loose weight but my body tends to feel more soft.
firemaiden04
10-18-2009, 01:28 PM
I think the exercise does more for me. I can eat the same way I normally would (no fast food EVER, but plenty of carbs), but when I'm working out, I get slimmer. Not only does working out burn calories, but it can also boost your metabolism.
mediocrity
10-21-2009, 02:35 PM
Hey, I'll keep trusting the scientific data and you can keep trusting your anecdotes and we can call it a day. 8)
I have said I speak in terms of aggregates and general populations, and have said if an individual feels they thrive on a modern diet, that is well for them. So do stop being arrogant and accusing me of intent I don't possess and implications I haven't put forth.
You seem to be the one invested in an arrogant presumption of what others say or mean when they speak about diet. I speak in terms of science and history and biology and anthropology, not anecdotes and endlessly confoundable observations.
I keep promising myself I am going to write a huge thing up on this but I never get around to it. Ugh. I always end up going to work before I can do it.
Tomorrow!
luckischalk
11-28-2009, 12:46 AM
Stripperchic, you're absolutely right with your philosophy. I need to keep that in mind when I'm struggling with this.
Cyril
11-29-2009, 08:59 AM
I keep promising myself I am going to write a huge thing up on this but I never get around to it. Ugh. I always end up going to work before I can do it.
Tomorrow!
What seems to be handcuffing your effort? What seems to be locking up your spirit?
What seems to be handcuffing your effort? What seems to be locking up your spirit?
Why are you always saying subtle things to provoke people?
mediocrity
11-29-2009, 02:55 PM
^^ It's ok, JD. He is just trying to free my oh-so-caged spirit.
4everresolutions
12-01-2009, 01:21 AM
This is all very...interesting. I can't say that I would ever eat an "all-meat" type of diet - I like my Spinach Salads too much for that sort of thing.
Actually, I don't think I would ever do an "all-anything" diet, long term. Sort-term, I do give up most carbs to slim down, but I find I can maintain well while still eating them when I'm not trying to lose.
And to the original poster - I would say Diet is more important. I had a physio therapist who told me weight control is 80% diet, 20% exercise. In practice, I have found this to be true.