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JayATee
10-05-2009, 10:37 AM
Hmmm, It just could be that since you don't think there are any differences, it seems weird that someone is asking if there are any. Maybe there aren't. Maybe there are.

To put it in words responding to your other posts, if I remember correctly, you've said something like you wouldn't normally associate with 99.5% of your customers (please correct me if that's incorrect).

So, if you find that in general, you wouldn't associate with 99.5% of guys anywhere, then you see no differences.

If, on the other hand, that percentage is different IRL/OTC, then there are some differences.

I am not trying to hustle a guy for his money in a reg bar. Therefore my entire demeanor is different. Also take into acct that in a SC I am walking arnd mostly naked and therefore basically an object to most men. Guys do not look at me in the same manner at work as they do when Im out. You're trying to compare apples and oranges which is why Im having a problem with what you're asking.

And honestly, I prefer not to associate with 99% of human beings in general.

vmurphy252
10-05-2009, 10:39 AM
Love being in the 1%... ;)

Shy_Guy
10-05-2009, 10:47 AM
^ I can see where the difficulty is there. The basic question was whether the attitudes, behavior, beliefs were different in the SC regular than the non-SC regular. Since doing any actual research is nigh-impossible, we are left with only personal experiences, skewed as they may be. We work with what we have :shrug:

JayATee
10-05-2009, 10:53 AM
^ I can see where the difficulty is there. The basic question was whether the attitudes, behavior, beliefs were different in the SC regular than the non-SC regular. Since doing any actual research is nigh-impossible, we are left with only personal experiences, skewed as they may be. We work with what we have :shrug:

Attitudes can't possibly be the same. That's my point. Im not me in the club, Im an alter ego. I dress in a way I never would on the street, I have a fake name, I have fake stories, fake ages. In short a completely fake identity. How could you compare that to who I am when Im at a reg bar. Apples and oranges....

Phil-W
10-05-2009, 10:59 AM
To put it in words responding to your other posts, if I remember correctly, you've said something like you wouldn't normally associate with 99.5% of your customers (please correct me if that's incorrect).

So, if you find that in general, you wouldn't associate with 99.5% of guys anywhere, then you see no differences.

If, on the other hand, that percentage is different IRL/OTC, then there are some differences.

One of the perennial questions in Customer Conversation is "do dancers date customers?"

Which brings up the classic Catch 22 situation.

There are undoubtedly guys walking into SC's that dancers might be interested in dating in other circumstances. However, the very act of walking into a SC raises a near insurmountable barrier. It immediately puts you into the 'customer' category - and most dancers don't date customers.

Two classic quotes from UK dancers:

- "I never date a guy who's seen me naked before he knows my name".
- "The motives that bring a guy into a strip club are motives that would put me off of dating him".

So, in order to stand the best chance of getting a date with a dancer, you'd have to bump into her outside of work without going into SC's - and the chance of that is pretty remote. And the moment you go into work to see her, you've blown your chances....

Catch 22 indeed.

Phil.

Shy_Guy
10-05-2009, 11:05 AM
"The motives that bring a guy into a strip club are motives that would put me off of dating him".

That is the type of comment I am trying to get to the heart of. (NOT asking about dating. Asking about what are those "motives" that are different than the "other" guys)

jack0177057
10-05-2009, 11:25 AM
Jack, which clubs do you frequent in Dallas?

When I lived in Dallas, I used to go to the Lodge, Cabaret Royal, Penthouse and the Clubhouse. The Clubhouse was a little less upscale than the other three, but the women were totally nude and very hot.

Phil-W
10-05-2009, 12:23 PM
Shy_Guy, I don't want to be rude, but I get the impression that you think if you keep asking the question long enough, dancers will eventually say "actually, yes, we do date customers".

I can only give you my personal experience.

- Dancer A (who's been an OTC friend for 8 years now): never dated anyone she's met at work.
- Dancer B (OTC friend for 6 years): never dated anyone she's met at work.
- Dancer C (OTC friend for 5 years till she went back to Poland): never dated anyone she met at work.

I also know half a dozen other dancers casually outside of work. With one exception they've never dated anyone they met at work. The exception was S____ who got very drunk and agreed to go out with a guy she was dancing for. That hit the buffers with a lot of bitterness about 2 weeks later.

Not good odds....

Phil.

xdamage
10-05-2009, 01:59 PM
I'm also curious what is the motivator behind the question (idle curiosity seems unlikely; there are more interesting matters to burn idle time on).

JayATee
10-05-2009, 02:33 PM
I'm also curious what is the motivator behind the question (idle curiosity seems unlikely; there are more interesting matters to burn idle time on).

My sentiments exactly. He keeps insisting Im wrong. :shrug:

Earl_the_Pearl
10-05-2009, 02:59 PM
I can only give you my personal experience.
I can give you my personal experience; I have "dated" many dancers I met in the club. Now before we get all situationally ethical remember no women will ever come close to getting the $300,000 I paid my ex-wife.

yoda57us
10-05-2009, 04:46 PM
And honestly, I prefer not to associate with 99% of human beings in general.


AMEN! I knew there was something I liked about you!!!

Shy_Guy
10-05-2009, 05:49 PM
My sentiments exactly. He keeps insisting Im wrong. :shrug:

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think you're wrong. I don't know what the right answer is, so I keep asking questions. Just because I use a quote to spur discussion or as an example does not mean I support that statement.

Shy_Guy
10-05-2009, 05:52 PM
Shy_Guy, I don't want to be rude, but I get the impression that you think if you keep asking the question long enough, dancers will eventually say "actually, yes, we do date customers".

I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE DATING QUESTION. I only used that as an example where a dancer implied a different opinion of SC regulars than guys in general. IT WAS AN EXAMPLE ONLY.

yoda57us
10-05-2009, 06:24 PM
Oh just calm down dude. Now you are yelling at people who are simply responding to your posts.

There is a basic premise of chat board interaction that you are missing here. You can post anything you like but we get to do the same. You may think that you are being clear and cogent. We may not have the slightest idea what you are talking about. You may find something fascinating, we may find it mundane...

Such is life on the internet...

JayATee
10-05-2009, 06:34 PM
AMEN! I knew there was something I liked about you!!!

}:D

I'd actually venture to say it's truly 99.5% or 99.8% but I was trying to be generous. LoL. ;)

vmurphy252
10-05-2009, 06:56 PM
6,000,000,000 * .002 = 12,000,000

I think you can go a little lower still...

Of course, the US:

300,000,000 * .002 = 600,000

Closer, but still...

JayATee
10-05-2009, 06:58 PM
6,000,000,000 * .002 = 12,000,000

I think you can go a little lower still...

Of course, the US:

300,000,000 * .002 = 600,000

Closer, but still...

You're right. That's still way too high.

xdamage
10-05-2009, 07:04 PM
It's okay I don't like the vast majority (we're talking small small tiny numbers that I do) ;) But I don't like a lot about myself either so I guess it balances out in a strange way. :-\

vmurphy252
10-05-2009, 07:06 PM
^See, I'm arrogant enough that I like most of my personality; I just don't see it enough in most others to like them as well.

JayATee
10-05-2009, 07:13 PM
^ I agree. I love me. Im totally my biggest fan. LoL. ;)

Golden_Rule
10-05-2009, 08:07 PM
Yes truly. Put a pretty girl with a short skirt on in a bar and guys will fall all over themselves for her. Have a pretty girl walk down the street in a pair of shorts and watch her stop traffic. I've seen it happen a hundred times. I've had it happen to me a hundred times. Men readily admit to being dogs. I've never heard a woman admit such a thing.

That wasn't the point of my OP. It was that your comment about men was extraordinarily generalized. I was asking can women be generalized just as extraordinarily?


I find it exceptionally hard to believe that you feel you know enough about dancers and SC's to make a statement like this.

I wasn't [see above].

Golden_Rule
10-05-2009, 08:10 PM
You're right. That's still way too high.

See, I am the exact opposite. Even seeing everything I have seen that is bad of people, and that is a lot, I still like folks in general. And while it wasn't always the case for the longest time now I like me pretty well too.

vmurphy252
10-05-2009, 08:11 PM
^GR, for the record, I think the second part you quoted ("I find it exceptionally...") was intended for SteveSmith, not you...

vmurphy252
10-05-2009, 08:12 PM
See, I am the exact opposite. Even seeing everything I have seen that is bad of people, and that is a lot, I still like folks in general. And while it wasn't always the case for the longest time now I like me pretty well too.
Have to admit I'm moody enough that it really depends on the day... both for other people and myself.

JayATee
10-05-2009, 08:54 PM
That wasn't the point of my OP. It was that your comment about men was extraordinarily generalized. I was asking can women be generalized just as extraordinarily?

Men generalize themselves. That's my point.



I wasn't [see above].

See my quote above. This comment wasn't about anything you said.


See, I am the exact opposite. Even seeing everything I have seen that is bad of people, and that is a lot, I still like folks in general. And while it wasn't always the case for the longest time now I like me pretty well too.

I guess you're a better person than I am. I have a very low opinion of ppl. Everytime I remotely try to change that, Im disappointed.

vmurphy252
10-05-2009, 09:17 PM
Men generalize themselves. That's my point.




See my quote above. This comment wasn't about anything you said.



I guess you're a better person than I am. I have a very low opinion of ppl. Everytime I remotely try to change that, Im disappointed.
MOST men generalize themselves... ;D

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
10-06-2009, 01:10 AM
I can give you my personal experience; I have "dated" many dancers I met in the club. Now before we get all situationally ethical remember no women will ever come close to getting the $300,000 I paid my ex-wife.

Wow, no wonder you're so bitter against women. :P

Earl_the_Pearl
10-06-2009, 02:38 AM
Wow, no wonder you're so bitter against women. :P
Oh my bitter no; I love women, one dollar at a time.

jack0177057
10-06-2009, 12:02 PM
I can give you my personal experience; I have "dated" many dancers I met in the club. Now before we get all situationally ethical remember no women will ever come close to getting the $300,000 I paid my ex-wife.

Ouch! I hope you got to keep the same or more.

Next time (if there is a next time), remember to use protection (i.e., a pre-nup)... And if that poses a problem - "You think I'm marrying you for your money? How could you ask me to sign this? You plan on leaving me! ... bla...bla...bla...", consider setting up a domestic trust or a foreign trust prior to the marriage. The IRS is cracking down on foreign trusts used to evade US income taxes, but there is nothing wrong with using them for asset protection (so long as you pay taxes in the US).

dreamer1980
10-06-2009, 12:55 PM
That is the type of comment I am trying to get to the heart of. (NOT asking about dating. Asking about what are those "motives" that are different than the "other" guys)for the most part i think the majority of guys that go to a strip club are normal and their only motive is to have a fun time. theres nothing wrong for a guy to look at a woman that he finds attractive. its hard wired into our brains. of course, as with anything else, there will be those few who are cuckoos and have other motives besides having a good time.

now if you're going everyday and spending all your cash then theres a problem with that (same as going to a bar, casino, etc everyday). these people are "different" as in they have an addiction issue.

for the guys who choose not to go perhaps they see no interest in strip clubs, or are very religious, or are poor, or feel its morally wrong. in all of my 28 years alive i never had a genuine interest in going to a strip club. i finally went with my friend on his bday this past March and realized how much fun i had. since then ive added strip clubs to my roster for venues of entertainment. so basically i was that "other" guy and my motive for returning was that i had a good time.

Golden_Rule
10-06-2009, 05:53 PM
I guess you're a better person than I am. I have a very low opinion of ppl. Everytime I remotely try to change that, Im disappointed.

I don't think it makes either of us better, or worse. Just different.

Although I am relatively proud of the fact that after 25 years of policing in the big city, seeing all that I have seen, I still like folks. [I easily could have good reason not to]

lopaw
10-06-2009, 07:41 PM
Do the types of guys who frequent the SC make a representative cross-section of the general male population, or are there some definite differences in the type of guy that frequents the SC, in their attitudes, behaviors, beliefs?

Thoughts?

There are so many different types of SC patrons that it is virtually impossible to try to even determine what a "typical" patron is. Same with the "general population".

Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 02:57 AM
Next time (if there is a next time),
I have grown up and now know about babies' daddy; marriage is not necessary in the 21st century. I will NEVER sign the papers again. Condoms have their place.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 02:58 AM
There are so many different types of SC patrons that it is virtually impossible to try to even determine what a "typical" patron is. Same with the "general population".
PL that is all.

laurcon
10-07-2009, 02:01 PM
There are so many different types of SC patrons that it is virtually impossible to try to even determine what a "typical" patron is. Same with the "general population".

i think you could figure out the "typical" patrons of individual strip clubs. but not strip clubs as a whole because the they are so incredibly varying. thank god there are places where not every customer is a PL like earl.
seriously god was looking out for strippers for once.

Golden_Rule
10-07-2009, 02:21 PM
. thank god there are places where not every customer is a PL like earl.


Ouch!

That's just so cold. :)

JayATee
10-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Ouch!

That's just so cold. :)

He brings it on himself.

Elvia
10-07-2009, 04:22 PM
PL that is all.

I'm curious- why have you decided to ignore the long accepted definition of PL and change the definition to simply mean anyone who goes to an SC? It really comes across as a whiney way of expressing your own sense of self victimization.

JayATee
10-07-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm curious- why have you decided to ignore the long accepted definition of PL and change the definition to simply mean anyone who goes to an SC? It really comes across as a whiney way of expressing your own sense of self victimization.

That's precisely what he does.

xdamage
10-07-2009, 05:52 PM
I've worked with a lot the same guys since 1990. I know the vast majority have been to a SC at least once as part of a bachelor party (I've seen many get married over the years), or I can recall a couple (literally 2) business trips over 19 years where a bunch of us went to a club as a group. I also know a few have visited clubs in Amsterdam, which I passed on as it crosses a line for me, but it was no secret either who went.

And except for some joking mumblings the next day, we never talk about strip clubs. I seriously doubt many go often, but if they did I'd never know, nor would anyone else, because it is not something we talk about. We might talk about a movie we saw, but not a dancer. It's just none of anyone's business.

They all have SOs, some kids, work, etc. So in regards to the OPs question, I'd say they are just normal people.

But in regards to the pathetic loser comments, I'm 99.9% they'd take offense at being labeled "pathetic losers" for partaking in a legal, though admittedly sexual oriented, form of entertainment.

In fact I'd go further and say that if they really felt/knew that the entertainers saw them as losers for going, they would, like myself, also seriously debate going. That raises a moral quandary and I'd say the guys I work with are moral people, at least as much as anyone else I've met... (It's good to read that not every dancer sees all customers as automatic losers for patronizing their business from time to time.)

That said, some people do have obsessive, and anti-social personality problems, and some of them may be found in SCs because they have trouble in normal relationships. I can understand why someone like that would raises in us people feelings of "loser", because it crosses a line from entertainment into a psychological problem.

laurcon
10-07-2009, 10:19 PM
^ xdamage, earl thinks all men that go to SCs are PLs, not us dancers. def not at all for me. earl's just trying to make the rest of you guys feel as bad about yourself as he does about him. don't.

:meditate:

Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 11:21 PM
Ouch! I hope you got to keep the same or more.

Next time (if there is a next time),
She got $200,000 in cash and prizes at the divorce; the ass kicker is I put down a large down payment with pre marriage money on the house that was acquired during the marriage. She also got 1/3 my 401K and my traditional pension that I could not collect on for many years as that was acquired during the marriage. I had to buy my house back from her and then borrow on it to pay off the pension money. Her lawyer made her give him my gold and silver coin collection I acquired before the marriage to keep him slithering around. She got the better car also and two years of alimony.

$100,000 was paid in child support and I have no idea if a penny went to the children. The good Doctor she married wanted her to give me back my youngest son but she wanted him for longer child support so I got the oldest one back. I guess the adulterer could only handle two of my children.

If I ever even think about signing the papers again I want somebody, anybody to place my testicles on a slab of marble and drop an anvil on them. :yikes:

laurcon
10-07-2009, 11:31 PM
She got $200,000 in cash and prizes at the divorce; the ass kicker is I put down a large down payment with pre marriage money on the house that was acquired during the marriage. She also got 1/3 my 401K and my traditional pension that I could not collect on for many years as that was acquired during the marriage. I had to buy my house back from her and then borrow on it to pay off the pension money. Her lawyer made her give him my gold and silver coin collection I acquired before the marriage to keep him slithering around. She got the better car also and two years of alimony.

$100,000 was paid in child support and I have no idea if a penny went to the children. The good Doctor she married wanted her to give me back my youngest son but she wanted him for longer child support so I got the oldest one back. I guess the adulterer could only handle two of my children.

If I ever even think about signing the papers again I want somebody, anybody to place my testicles on a slab of marble and drop an anvil on them. :yikes:

ya, no one wants to touch your testicles, even if it is only to cause you great pain. isn't that what you pay prostitutes for?

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
10-07-2009, 11:34 PM
Earl, I'm really, truly sorry to hear that. What a shame, the games people play.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-08-2009, 12:30 AM
Earl, I'm really, truly sorry to hear that. What a shame, the games people play.
No problem I have recovered. I have three grown children and my house in the swamp is again paid for; if I were married I could never carry on as I do now. I don't even have to hide my cell phone.

I'll tell you what my roommate really hates; Stripper Web. She has a computer but isn't comfortable with them but she wants me to help her join. I will have to put Earl in her ignore list though. :beat:

Earl_the_Pearl
10-08-2009, 12:34 AM
ya, no one wants to touch your testicles, even if it is only to cause you great pain. isn't that what you pay prostitutes for?
They are not prostitutes any more than any other women that expects the man to be the provider. Are you saying being a prostitute is a bad thing? Remember this is all OTC.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-08-2009, 12:39 AM
^ xdamage, earl thinks all men that go to SCs are PLs, not us dancers. def not at all for me. earl's just trying to make the rest of you guys feel as bad about yourself as he does about him. don't.

:meditate:

Now tell us how many customers have you developed a friendship with OTC. Now I wonder what the reason for that is. :thinking:

xdamage
10-08-2009, 05:20 AM
Now tell us how many customers have you developed a friendship with OTC. Now I wonder what the reason for that is. :thinking:

EtP I think it makes sense they have to divide work and business, for multiple reasons:

It is a unique job in terms of what is being sold, and I'd expect someone doing it to have to put up protective emotional walls.

Likewise people tend to be friends with people in their own age group, so yea, when I was in my 20s I didn't have a lot of 40+ year old "friends" (actually none).

Then you have to factor in that dancers tend to be hot (that is the job requirement ;)) and so can be choosy about who their BFs are.

Then factor in that many of us who had/have GFs/BFs still may not have a lot of "friends" of the opposite sex.

Besides I'm not friends with any of the people I work with. It's smart to separate business and pleasure.

So I don't have any issue with dancers not being friends with customers, but on the other end of a gray scale is the extreme view that all customers are losers. That is also worrisome because it presents a moral quandary. It certainly would imply the business is essentially antagonistic vs typical business in which most business owners appreciate having customers, and are commonly ambivalent about them as people. If it is essentially antagonistic then as a business it is doomed to continue to spiral down, and society as a whole is probably right to discourage it.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-08-2009, 10:13 AM
If it is essentially antagonistic then as a business it is doomed to continue to spiral down, and society as a whole is probably right to discourage it.
That is exactly what is happening and at an ever quickening pace.