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Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 02:46 AM
We have to keep going on stage if there is even one customer. Even if he tips 2-4 dollars a set, it's just not worth it if it doesn't lead to a dance.
Inform the buffoon of an owner you are an independent contractor and he should place his penis in his ass.
Damn truth and dancer ego in conflict again.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 02:52 AM
No matter what you might think about me because I admit to having the occasional extra, I have rules about shit like that. I stopped her even after she said it was OK.
So you are a trained physiologist? So you know better than her what she wants. You most likely crushed her self esteem by rejecting her. Think of the children.
bem401
10-07-2009, 05:35 AM
Now I wouldn't mind stopping in, having a drink, and I do tip of course, but even so one can sense that the dancers are there primarily to sell LDs. I probably wouldn't buy many if I did so I haven't. Not this year. Not with the economy being shit and too much else going on.
So the question is, cool or not to stop in? Be honest. My gut feeling is they'd rather we not stop in if we are not buying dances, even though tip money is money, if guys aren't going to be buying LDs it's not cool? but I am curious what the real deal is.
X, you are going there to please yourself and need only worry about doing what management requires, which probably involves just buying a reasonable amount of drinks while you're there. Of course you should tip when appropriate and be a gentleman as you would in any other situation.
In a dancer's ideal world, every customer is there to buy lapdances. In a customer's ideal club, all the girls would fit his preference, whatever that might be. Neither is going to get what he or she wants and neither has the authority to say "whoever doesn't fit my mold should stay home".
Both the girls and the guys are there at the management's discretion.
bem401
10-07-2009, 05:50 AM
Is the guy in question deaf or mentally retarded? If I can hear and count the songs, then surely he can too.
Have seen some of the guys in stripclubs? Some of my dancer friends even refer to them as retards, though they are more likely to refer to them as pervs.
In any event, retarded or not, in the course of a series of LD's, you would understandably be focusing on the dance number whereas he'd be focusing on anything but that.
xdamage
10-07-2009, 06:30 AM
The deal is you have the gold and you make the rules. If a dancer doesn't like it she should buy a club and make the rules.
There I go again speaking the truth when it does not massage the egos of the dancers.
Well, let me answer like this...
You're basically saying you are in it for you when you go and that is fine. I am no altruist, but there are multiple means to the same ends.
None of us always loves working, we do it because we must to survive, but personally I do get some true enjoyment working with customers who aren't asses. Not love as in going on vacation love, but as in if I have to earn money then I'm all in and work hard for those customers.
The dancer is an entertainer, but that doesn't mean she has no feelings or stops being a human. Just like many other jobs, some really hate work and customers always; a few seemingly really love it; in the middle, like most of us, there is ambivalence but they have better or worse days depending on the behavior of the customers.
I'm no altruist, but if she is treated fairly, respectfully, the odds are better she will enjoy the job as much as most of us enjoy our jobs, which means a MUCH better time for me as well. I find it much more fun when I'm really fooled and the entertainer seems to be having a good time too. That's what I'm pay for, a good escape from reality, like a mini-vacation.
So yea, I have the gold but she has power to say no, and to make it a good time or a dreadful one. So who really has the power? Seems symbiotic to me.
Unless of course one gets thrills out of seeing them unhappy? But that is twisted and I want no part of it.
xdamage
10-07-2009, 06:50 AM
X, you are going there to please yourself and need only worry about doing what management requires, which probably involves just buying a reasonable amount of drinks while you're there. Of course you should tip when appropriate and be a gentleman as you would in any other situation.
Hey Bem, it's like this... let me give an example.
When the Borgota Hotel opened in Atlantic City we actually started going to A.C. semi-regularly, like once a month to gamble, eat, stay the night sometimes.
It was quite a dramatic change from the atmosphere at existing AC Casinos, which I jokingly referred to as staffed by the walking dread. There is a huge contrast between the entertainment experience at most Vegas Hotels and AC hotels, but the Borgota finally (seemingly) changed that.
A similar difference can be seen between Six Flags New Jersey, and Disneyland in CA, but even when we've gone to Busch Gardens in Virginia. The difference is in the staff.
Now in short time the Borgota was PACKED and over booked. The place was doing great because it was FUN. The staff made it fun. The Borgota was not only choosy about who they hired but like Disney or Vegas, made it clear, it's business, people are coming to have a good time, they have a good time when staff appears to enjoy it, is courteous, upbeat, etc.
But then over the next few years the place went through it's apathy typical of AC Casinos. Grumpy dealers. Bartenders that acted like you were inconveniencing them by asking for a drink. When you went in to Starbucks to get coffee the staff was too busy chatting with each other and on their cell phones to give customers eye contact. The place started to suck. And we watched the reports of their business falling off, hardly surprising.
At some point they half cleaned it up; fired the local kids and imported staff from Europe who seemingly want jobs and are cheerful. Looks like Six Flags NJ did the same.
The thing is we consumers also don't need to go to entertainment venues. Some will of course. Some will look past a poor experience but others just select the don't go option. I tend to choose the don't go option if the entertainment is not fun. I don't feel any compulsion to see strippers so if it's not a blast I'm not going to go.
The thing is that work does suck for most of us, but likewise an upbeat facade can be infectious, which in turn feeds more customers, and unbeat facade. I guess then my main issue with Oasis is not that it was a bad club, it really was quite nice, but that as compared with Vegas clubs it reminded me of the difference between Disneyland and Six Flags New Jersey. I think I'll just save my money for the Disney trip :)
bem401
10-07-2009, 07:49 AM
The thing is we consumers also don't need to go to entertainment venues. Some will of course. Some will look past a poor experience but others just select the don't go option. I tend to choose the don't go option if the entertainment is not fun. I don't feel any compulsion to see strippers so if it's not a blast I'm not going to go.
The thing is that work does suck for most of us, but likewise an upbeat facade can be infectious, which in turn feeds more customers, and unbeat facade. I guess then my main issue with Oasis is not that it was a bad club, it really was quite nice, but that as compared with Vegas clubs it reminded me of the difference between Disneyland and Six Flags New Jersey. I think I'll just save my money for the Disney trip :)
Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier post. You seemed to be mulling not going to a club because the girls told you not to come unless you were going to buy a lapdance.
If you are not going to go because it won't be fun for you, that makes perfect sense. I only enjoy visiting my club of choice if I know certain people will be there and generally confine my visits to when I know they will be there. If you are going to stay away because some stranger may not like the fact you are not giving her money, well that's entirely different.
Other than that, I agree with everything you said. When I used to do a lot of dances, it certainly was a lot more fun to do them than not, especially when the dancer seemed to be having a good time.
xdamage
10-07-2009, 08:17 AM
Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier post. You seemed to be mulling not going to a club because the girls told you not to come unless you were going to buy a lapdance.
If you are not going to go because it won't be fun for you, that makes perfect sense. I only enjoy visiting my club of choice if I know certain people will be there and generally confine my visits to when I know they will be there. If you are going to stay away because some stranger may not like the fact you are not giving her money, well that's entirely different.
Other than that, I agree with everything you said. When I used to do a lot of dances, it certainly was a lot more fun to do them than not, especially when the dancer seemed to be having a good time.
Both are true to some degree.
Reading the messages here does leave me debating going if I'm just going to go for drinks and the stage show.
There was a time when tipping at the stage show was the Strip Club, but today it really is primarily about the LDs.
Unfortunately that model has died and probably can't work, so yea, if the reality is the majority would prefer we not go just for the stage show I'll factor it in, save my money, and go back when I'm ready to buy LDs again. A few good quality trips are better for me then poorer quantity trips.
princessjas
10-07-2009, 08:45 AM
Both are true to some degree.
Reading the messages here does leave me debating going if I'm just going to go for drinks and the stage show.
There was a time when tipping at the stage show was the Strip Club, but today it really is primarily about the LDs.
Unfortunately that model has died and probably can't work, so yea, if the reality is the majority would prefer we not go just for the stage show I'll factor it in, save my money, and go back when I'm ready to buy LDs again. A few good quality trips are better for me then poorer quantity trips.
Well, imo one reason many don't like guys going and not buying laps is because back in the 90's it was not uncommon for a guy to tip $10-$20 a set, sometimes even more...when I retired it was at a point where you were damn lucky to get a DOLLAR off of each guy for a 3 song set.
Most guys just don't consider our stage performances valuable anymore, no matter how much effort is put in. So therefore, many dancers don't enjoy their stage sets.
Of course if you go in and tip like that a stage show night will cost as much as laps. For some reason guys used to be fine with that, but that is no longer the case.
I really think it is due to increased contact during dances. Why pay the same to view many different girls when you could have your fav grind your cock into oblivion for the same price? Back in the 90's when ld contact was much less, buying laps was more about picking one favorite girl for some private time together, stage show tipping was more about variety.
JayATee
10-07-2009, 08:53 AM
If you tip me well at my stage I have no issue with you not buying LD's.
chris91
10-07-2009, 11:52 AM
The deal is you have the gold and you make the rules. If a dancer doesn't like it she should buy a club and make the rules.
You may have all the gold, but we have all the titties. If you don't like my rules, you can take your money and walk.
Inform the buffoon of an owner you are an independent contractor and he should place his penis in his ass.
Damn truth and dancer ego in conflict again.
Yeah, I'll get right on that. ::) Anyway, just because the owners treat us poorly, doesn't mean that you should too.
X, you are going there to please yourself and need only worry about doing what management requires, which probably involves just buying a reasonable amount of drinks while you're there.
Yeah, fuck the dancers! Maybe later you can go to a restaurant and order nothing but coffee. Then you can make a big mess all over the table and not tip the waitress, because fuck her, you paid for your coffee.
In any event, retarded or not, in the course of a series of LD's, you would understandably be focusing on the dance number whereas he'd be focusing on anything but that.
Not my problem. It's your money, and you are responsible for how you spend it. "I wasn't paying attention" is not an excuse. Really, if this is a problem that guys actually have, then maybe they should tell the dancer up front to stop when he gets to a certain amount of money. Or better yet, ask every couple songs about how much you owe.
I find it absurd that you think we are obligated to keep you updated on your spending, but that you are not obligated to ask about it. We are trying to get you to spend money, not talk you out of it. When you go to the grocery store, do you grab a ton of stuff without looking at the price, and expect the cashier to read your mind and stop ringing stuff up at when it gets too expensive? God, be a man and take some responsibility!
laurcon
10-07-2009, 01:48 PM
In a dancer's ideal world, every customer is there to buy lapdances. In a customer's ideal club, all the girls would fit his preference, whatever that might be. Neither is going to get what he or she wants and neither has the authority to say "whoever doesn't fit my mold should stay home".
Both the girls and the guys are there at the management's discretion.
well i'd say 98% of customers at my club buy a lapdance. does that mean i'm living in my ideal world? no! ideally, most customers come in to buy dances with most of the girls and several want to do a room for 4hrs with a thin blonde. if you want to know bem. i don't think all dancers have the same "ideal world". i know there are tons of dancers on here that would say their ideal world would be getting tipped hundreds on stage and not having to do nasty dances at all!
and that would be pretty lame for customers too if every girl was their type because what about bringing friends?
sorry but i get irked when customers tell us what we want.
xdamage
10-07-2009, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the replies BTW. I think I'll just put the money aside and when I can get back to Vegas (hopefully by early next year) blow a bunch there on a good trip rather than a mediocre trip (or trips?) to the local club. I was thinking about going to the local club once more this year before the weather turned foul but I can wait until early next year.
That said if someone knows a kick-ass club in the PA/NJ area (and I mean banging with a fun vibe like the best Vegas clubs) feel free to PM details.
Golden_Rule
10-07-2009, 02:19 PM
...but some of the fun of going has died too in the face of the fact that it is fairly easy to look around and see a lot of unhappy dancers who are sitting around in clubs, not happy guys aren't spending more these days. I find it to be a bummer, and dampens a lot of the fun as compared with mid 90s when money flowed freely, and the grump factor was there, but felt less palpable to
me.
True enough. I feel the same a lot of the time.
It can be felt in the people eating at Wendy's who use to sit down to diner at places that served finer fare.
Or the people shopping at K-Mart who use to shop at more upscale stores.
Point is, its not exclusive to strip-clubs. :)
Golden_Rule
10-07-2009, 02:45 PM
Actually, I still don't agree with your point because I think it would be very difficult for either party to know when they are really taking advantage of someone. Most guys are drinking at the strip club and many customers like to get full on drunk. Does that mean I should never sell a drunk guy dances, or cut him off from buying as many as he wants just on the chance that he'll regret it? Similarly, there are a lot of extras girls who get trashed all the time. A customer trolling for extras doesn't know if she usually offers or agrees to provide extras anyway, or if she's just making the mistake because she's drunk. There's also a good chance that they've both been drinking heavily and aren't in any state to be so perceptive as to what's really going on with the other. So, I would say the best situation is for people to simply be responsible for themselves, and avoid the issue altogether by not going into the club if they continually make the same disastrous mistakes over and over again.
This sounds like some white knight shit to me. I don't expect my customers to babysit me anymore than I am willing to babysit them. Dancers need to take responsibility for their actions, drunk or sober, and so do customers. We are not talking about dudes touching girls while they are passed out or girls stealing money out of a drunk guys wallet, right? Just full grown adults making bad decisions.
Frankly, I would be insulted if some stranger decided that he needed to protect me from myself.
It's not "White Knight shit". Its Golden Rule shit.
What is it about "Don't do to other people things you wouldn't want done to you.", that is so challenging for you two? {LOL} :O
Golden_Rule
10-07-2009, 02:47 PM
So you are a trained physiologist? So you know better than her what she wants. You most likely crushed her self esteem by rejecting her. Think of the children.
Very funny. }:D
bem401
10-07-2009, 03:16 PM
Yeah, fuck the dancers! Maybe later you can go to a restaurant and order nothing but coffee. Then you can make a big mess all over the table and not tip the waitress, because fuck her, you paid for your coffee.
Your words, not mine.
I advocated he go in, tip accordingly, and act like a gentleman, but you managed to miss that part in your cherry-picking. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of people in the club ( owners, dancers, and customers alike ) are there for their own selfish reasons. They are all looking out for themselves first and everyone else is a distant second. Tell me I'm wrong.
Not my problem. It's your money, and you are responsible for how you spend it. "I wasn't paying attention" is not an excuse. Really, if this is a problem that guys actually have, then maybe they should tell the dancer up front to stop when he gets to a certain amount of money. Or better yet, ask every couple songs about how much you owe.
I find it absurd that you think we are obligated to keep you updated on your spending, but that you are not obligated to ask about it. We are trying to get you to spend money, not talk you out of it. When you go to the grocery store, do you grab a ton of stuff without looking at the price, and expect the cashier to read your mind and stop ringing stuff up at when it gets too expensive? God, be a man and take some responsibility!
It's not my problem either. I am responsible for my spending and not once ever tried to blame anyone for any lessons I might have learned a long time ago. It still doesn't mean it should be open season on every drunk or clueless guy. What's wrong with saying " you know we're already up to $150 ( or whatever), should we keep going?" Whenever I bet on sports, I was always notified of where I stood and what my downside was. It seemed the right way to conduct business. In any event, I generally made it clear beforehand how many songs we'd be doing. It was usually a 15 minute room actually.
I've only had one dispute over dance counts in the hundreds of dances I've done. A very drunk dancer tried to charge me for 4 nude dances when I got 3 topless. I told her she could take the 3 topless or call the bouncer. She took the 3.
Look, I'm not saying you should do any more than treat people the way you'd like to be treated if you were in their shoes, yet you take offense at that.
bem401
10-07-2009, 03:24 PM
well i'd say 98% of customers at my club buy a lapdance. does that mean i'm living in my ideal world? no! ideally, most customers come in to buy dances with most of the girls and several want to do a room for 4hrs with a thin blonde. if you want to know bem. i don't think all dancers have the same "ideal world". i know there are tons of dancers on here that would say their ideal world would be getting tipped hundreds on stage and not having to do nasty dances at all!
and that would be pretty lame for customers too if every girl was their type because what about bringing friends?
sorry but i get irked when customers tell us what we want.
So a dancer's ideal world doesn't involve a club full of lapdance-buying guys? Or at least money-spending guys?
You prefer a world where you get tipped hundreds on stage? Good luck with that. Let me know how you make out. All my friends absolutely detest going on stage to the point that some of them hide when their names come up.
If I'm going to the club to buy dances, I would gladly trade my friends ( for a few hours at least) for a club loaded with girls my type. I'm sure my friends would understand. When I used to spend longer hours in the clubs, I'd often enter with a friend or two and not see them till it was time to leave. When it comes to stripclubs, friends (male at least) are overrated.
Elvia
10-07-2009, 04:03 PM
The deal is you have the gold and you make the rules. If a dancer doesn't like it she should buy a club and make the rules.
There I go again speaking the truth when it does not massage the egos of the dancers.
Well, he's already made it clear that it DOES matter to him, and that he does not enjoy his time in the SC if it's upsetting to the dancers. So, since the point you're trying to make is irrelevant here, it once again seems like your going out of your way to say things that serve no other purpose than to get a rise out off the dancers. And then you wonder why people think you're a troll? Really?
Elvia
10-07-2009, 04:17 PM
It's not "White Knight shit". Its Golden Rule shit.
What is it about "Don't do to other people things you wouldn't want done to you.", that is so challenging for you two? {LOL} :O
Well, Golden, I tried to have a discussion with you, but everything you say in response to me seems to have no relevance to what I've actually said, so I give up. I'm not arguing with the sentiment of "do unto others." I'm arguing that in the kind of environment we work in, it would be very difficult to know when we should be protecting people from themselves and when we should trust them to know what they're doing. It would be easy to manage in a BDSM house where no alcohol is allowed on the premecis, and any workers or patrons who show up and appear to have been drinking are sent away. But we work in a bar, where everyone is encouraged to drink and many people go there with the specific intention to both get drunk and sell/buy dances or even other services. I don't know if you just can't understand what I'm saying or if you're just not taking the time to read clearly before you speak yourself, but I give up.
Golden_Rule
10-07-2009, 04:50 PM
[QUOTE=Elvia;1857384]I'm not arguing with the sentiment of "do unto others." I'm arguing that in the kind of environment we work in, it would be very difficult to know when we should be protecting people from themselves and when we should trust them to know what they're doing.]/quote]
{sigh}
What I am saying is directly related to what you are saying. Let me break it down to its most basic terms.
Do you have a conscience? I presume you do. Most people do. If you do it will tell you, if you listen, when you are crossing lines. That's ALL I am saying.
So the next time its feels a bit "off" to be taking that $300 of the guy that gives you every reason to believe he doesn't have two nickles to rub together...
Just like my conscience tells me when it feels a bit off to be doing extras with a dancer my gut is saying to me is too drunk, or high or whatever else to be making those decisions at the moment in question.
That is SPECIFICALLY how one avoids being a major dick, or dickette, in an environment that is ripe with the possibility to damage other people.
No one is saying do forgo every opportunity. Just when the little voice in your head says, "Oh, oh. Somethings not quite right about this."
[Its amazing I have to explain what I am talking about to a grown woman... its so basic. Its simple human compassion. Don't kick someone when they are down sort of stuff.]
Elvia
10-07-2009, 04:52 PM
Ok, so this is purely a matter of "intuition" and nothing else? No wonder it didn't seem to have a lot of merit.
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
10-07-2009, 05:51 PM
Inform the buffoon of an owner you are an independent contractor and he should place his penis in his ass.
Damn truth and dancer ego in conflict again.
Dude, what's your fucking issue with dancers as independent contractors? Yes, we are aware that many clubs treat their dancers as employees, but consider them IC. Yes, its illegal. Some girls don't know, some don't care, and some clubs actually do it right. Why do you have to insult us because clubs are breaking the law and the rules? We don't care about truth, we work where we can.
Christyismyalias
10-07-2009, 06:08 PM
I agree! I am over hearing it as an excuse.
They are just using it to make themselves feel better about being CHEAP. People are still spending money in every area of their lives. If you are that affected, you shouldn't have wasted gas money getting over here, the entrance fee to get in the club, and definitely that alcohol your sipping on.
I'll be the first to be understanding to the fact that people aren't rolling in dough like they used to be, but don't be using something people are really struggling with as an excuse when you know you were cheap to begin with.
Elvia
10-07-2009, 06:15 PM
If you are that affected, you shouldn't have wasted gas money getting over here, the entrance fee to get in the club, and definitely that alcohol your sipping on.
This is a damn good point.
Christyismyalias
10-07-2009, 06:16 PM
Most guys just don't consider our stage performances valuable anymore, no matter how much effort is put in. So therefore, many dancers don't enjoy their stage sets.
Of course if you go in and tip like that a stage show night will cost as much as laps. For some reason guys used to be fine with that, but that is no longer the case.
I really think it is due to increased contact during dances. Why pay the same to view many different girls when you could have your fav grind your cock into oblivion for the same price? Back in the 90's when ld contact was much less, buying laps was more about picking one favorite girl for some private time together, stage show tipping was more about variety.
Well said.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 06:19 PM
So yea, I have the gold but she has power to say no, and to make it a good time or a dreadful one. So who really has the power? Seems symbiotic to me.
I have the power to say no also; no I don't want to buy a $400 bottle of champagne, no I don't want a lap dance. I am actually quite shy even in SC and NEVER do anything first.
I am not there to make a dancer feel uncomfortable but many dancers have no problem making PLs feel uncomfortable. The dancers that like men like me; there is not enough Earl to go around. :-[
Elvia
10-07-2009, 06:23 PM
The dancers that like men like me;
I don't know whether to laugh at this or be creeped out. It's always the biggest assholes who are quick to accuse anyone who doesn't like them of being a man hater.
xdamage
10-07-2009, 06:37 PM
I have the power to say no also; no I don't want to buy a $400 bottle of champagne, no I don't want a lap dance. I am actually quite shy even in SC and NEVER do anything first.
Yep, but then it's a draw.
I also spend what feels right and no more. Some nights I've dropped a 1k+; others nobody interested me and I've left after watching the stage show for 30 mins.
I also choose how to spend my money, and it's their job to up-sell, so the choice is mine to spend or not. I take responsibility for what I spend.
But on the flip side it is not a cheap form of entertainment so if the experience isn't great I pass. There are so many ways I can spend a few hundred bucks from amaziong meals, to gadgets, to $400 paid for plane fare and a room at the Hard Rock Vegas for 4 nights, etc., that if I'm going to spend it on < 1hrs worth of entertainment then it needs to be a good experience. I also seem to have no problem meeting women who just want to chat in a bar so if it's for talk, that can be had for free. They are not always as hot as dancers but they are equally as interesting as people.
But antagonism between myself and the dancers doesn't seem like a very good way to achieve a quality experience. I found a better experience is had by finding a way to make it reasonably pleasant for her too. Paying her appropriately, being respectful, being clean, etc contribute. I'm not saying be a push over and let her run up a bill you can't afford or to buy things you don't want, but you and I both know the club owners require her to try and upsell crap like $400 bottles of cheap champagne. Let her do her pitch then politely decline and move on.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 06:43 PM
You may have all the gold, but we have all the titties. If you don't like my rules, you can take your money and walk.
Yeah, I'll get right on that. ::) Anyway, just because the owners treat us poorly, doesn't mean that you should too.
Yeah, fuck the dancers! Maybe later you can go to a restaurant and order nothing but coffee. Then you can make a big mess all over the table and not tip the waitress, because fuck her, you paid for your coffee.
I find it absurd that you think we are obligated to keep you updated on your spending, but that you are not obligated to ask about it. We are trying to get you to spend money, not talk you out of it. When you go to the grocery store, do you grab a ton of stuff without looking at the price, and expect the cashier to read your mind and stop ringing stuff up at when it gets too expensive?
I spend my money on those I want to and I do spend. I never treat any dancer badly unless you count not doing $800 VIP; I guess that does count.
LD are the biggest hustle and PLs blow the rent money on them because they are beguiled by women; as you said, "We are trying to get you to spend money". I don't know of any New Jersey club that lets the private dances build up; they must be paid for up front. Some towns do not permit private dances as they know the danger.
This is why PLs and dancers are like oil and water accept it it will never change as it is the nature of the business.
If I go to a restaurant the prices are clearly listed and I know how much I can spend and for what. I know what is going on with LD why get angry because a few PL can keep the blood in the big head? Do away with LD and that will do away with extras; that is what Newark thinks but they are wrong.
Blue_Dust_Bunny
10-07-2009, 06:51 PM
If you tip and don't buy dances, I don't have a problem with you going to the club. In fact, I'm going to venture out and say that, even you guys that are being "cheap" have a very important role to play.
What makes the club attractive to men is this idea of a magical land where there are naked women ready to please you without commitments. Think about it - how are strip clubs advertised on the radio? 2 for one specials, cheap dinners, if the club is large they brag about have "100 girls" a shift. It seems to be geared toward creating this paradise of everything you want without the prices you expect (do you know how much time and effort it would require to successfully have 100 girlfriends at one time?).
Sure, dudes that don't/ can't spend may be a pain when I'm trying to make a living, but they help create the paradise the club needs to be to keeps dudes happy. They help make the place look crowded, feel like a party, feel less like a creeper for just staring at naked girls. You need those bodies in those chairs.
Its a dancer's job to recognize time wasters. And if a dude is being a cheap asshole, its the dancer's job to educate him and make him realize how much he is going to get with the money he has...and maybe convince him to part with his money.
And sure, it may be a pain in the ass because it happens so much more frequently because of the recession issue, and it might not positively effect you that night. But it will keep people in the clubs. It might even make that cheap ass come back and want to see the things he couldn't afford at first. I think we just need to appreciate and work with what we have.
So please gentlemen, don't stop going to the clubs
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 06:57 PM
I don't know whether to laugh at this or be creeped out. It's always the biggest assholes who are quick to accuse anyone who doesn't like them of being a man hater.
Or a lover of women. Actually I have no problem with the fems; it is the butchs that are the problem.
I can figuratively taste the hate that comes from some dancers. I can literally taste the love that comes from some dancers.
Can we talk; this is not the best business to be in or frequent oil and water you know.
I know I am only a “$” but I will spend it on who I chose when I chose; and I do spend. I’m becoming one of the few and do not go as often as I used to because of the desperate attitude in so many clubs.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 07:02 PM
Think about it - how are strip clubs advertised on the radio? 2 for one specials, cheap dinners, if the club is large they brag about have "100 girls" a shift. It seems to be geared toward creating this paradise of everything you want without the prices you expect (do you know how much time and effort it would require to successfully have 100 girlfriends at one time?).
SC don't advertise in New Jersey except on the web; they try and keep a low profile as they are always the target of feminists and the upright citizen’s brigade. They are not ever topless BTW.
xdamage
10-07-2009, 07:10 PM
LD are the biggest hustle and PLs blow the rent money on them because they are beguiled by women; as you said, "We are trying to get you to spend money". I don't know of any New Jersey club that lets the private dances build up; they must be paid for up front. Some towns do not permit private dances as they know the danger.
Hmm, not sure. Here is the thing. When I walked into the Porsche dealer (multiple times) to buy my toy they do try to sell you, whether or not you can afford it, not their problem.
Nobody needs a Porsche just as nobody needs strip clubs. These things are pure luxury and I could get by fine on a bare bones car (in fact I have a 200K+ mile beater for winter which works fine), and if I never ever visited a stripper I'd be entirely fine.
Once we walk into a luxury land business we've already entered the realm of upsell, and high prices, so it goes hand in hand with that.
My only real disagreement I think with this thread is in the notion that customers are being "cheap" by not spending on luxury items. Because in the end luxury items are the first to go when times are tough, and what remains are sellers who appreciate customers business and see they need customers too. But also it is to be expected. It goes hand in hand with selling luxury items that sellers tend to forget that their product isn't something we need.
It all shakes out in the end. When I finally did buy my luxury car I bought it because I found a sales person who met me half way, on price and because he didn't pressure. He said look, I get it, I'm like you, I spent a lot of years saving to buy one of these and now I'm selling them in my retirement. It's a big purchase. We're going to find you the perfect car for you or I won't sell you. That worked for me. He was still in it to make a sale but he also realized didn't throw in the useless antagonism, which basically is without customers like me, he is also out of work.
Again, it is symbiotic and I don't have an patience for the antagonism either way, particularly not when my previous car was pretty damn nice and there are hundreds of other car dealers in the area all also selling pretty damn nice cars for a lot less. The Porsche meant a lot to me but it in the end it was just a car and there were 100,000 others I would have enjoyed too for less.
Luxury items have their place but I don't think buyers or sellers hold any special advantage; both need each other and it's just ego that makes them think otherwise.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 07:26 PM
Well, he's already made it clear that it DOES matter to him, and that he does not enjoy his time in the SC if it's upsetting to the dancers. So, since the point you're trying to make is irrelevant here, it once again seems like your going out of your way to say things that serve no other purpose than to get a rise out off the dancers. And then you wonder why people think you're a troll? Really?
I was not speaking of all dancers; I will tip who I want when I want. That is going to upset the ones that only get a few dollars from me; especially as I'm usually one of a very few PLs in the club.
Remember these women are not even topless and I have to sit at the bar no corners to hide in. Twenty dancers and three customers most dancers are going to be upset as I can't tip twenty dancers a dollar each every three minutes. Especially when I'm occupied sitting with a dancer that is not upset.
I feel like I'm in a dollar parade club; more dancing and less walking around demanding a dollar by holding out a bra strap.
princessjas
10-07-2009, 07:28 PM
The dancers that like men like me; there is not enough Earl to go around. :-[
I have enjoyed most of the 10+years I danced, including enjoying the company of many of my regs/custies...and lets face it, I slam your ass every other day on here. I am sickened by 90% of what you post, and have even said a few times, you could not possibly be this disgusting irl. I figure we get a large portion of what you hide from those you meet face-to-face.
My opinion is this is an act to get you extra attention from pretty girls. (Yes, I'm a moron for bitching and therefore indulging you.) Obviously if you displayed only a fraction of the creepiness we see here in the club, then you wouldn't be despised...especially since those women may actually be getting money from you. :P
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 07:34 PM
It all shakes out in the end. When I finally did buy my luxury car I bought it because I found a sales person who met me half way, on price and because he didn't pressure.
We have a winner; you bought one car from one sales person. The other sales persons were not happy but one man can not make them all happy.
When I bought my Mustang there were two sales men on the show room floor. I thought I got a great deal and the sales man would be upset.
The sales man was upset; the one that did not sell me the car. If looks could kill I would have died from the look he gave me as I was leaving; no dancer ever shot daggers from her eyes as he did from his. :gnasher:
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 07:44 PM
I have enjoyed most of the 10+years I danced, including enjoying the company of many of my regs/custies...and lets face it, I slam your ass every other day on here. I am sickened by 90% of what you post, and have even said a few times, you could not possibly be this disgusting irl. I figure we get a large portion of what you hide from those you meet face-to-face.
My opinion is this is an act to get you extra attention from pretty girls. (Yes, I'm a moron for bitching and therefore indulging you.) Obviously if you displayed only a fraction of the creepiness we see here in the club, then you wouldn't be despised...especially since those women may actually be getting money from you. :P
Huh? No meaningful conversation takes places in clubs in fact many dancers pretend to not speak English so they don't have to talk. If I want to have a meaningful conversation I don't go to a SC; talk is cheap.
Of all the "regs/custies" who's company you enjoyed in the club have you spoken to IRL. How many have taken you to get your hair done? :P
lopaw
10-07-2009, 07:49 PM
Or a lover of women. Actually I have no problem with the fems; it is the butchs that are the problem.
LOL
I'll make you a deal....you stay outta my hood, and I won't send my butch friends to kick your ass.
xdamage
10-07-2009, 07:53 PM
We have a winner; you bought one car from one sales person. The other sales persons were not happy but one man can not make them all happy.
When I bought my Mustang there were two sales men on the show room floor. I thought I got a great deal and the sales man would be upset.
The sales man was upset; the one that did not sell me the car. If looks could kill I would have died from the look he gave me as I was leaving; no dancer ever shot daggers from her eyes as he did from his. :gnasher:
Fair point.
Individually we each only have so much money to spend and to some degree it is wrong to get too pissed off at those who are supporting the business.
We can't make all people happy all the time, and we who are spending something are really not the enemy. Strange in a way to be more pissed off on those who spend something then the millions who spend nothing at all, but that is they way it works.
In fact bye bye Saturn dealerships.. a lot of people out of work. Were customers cheap or did Saturn just suck as compared to competing brands that offered more for less, or less for more? All we know is that in the end Saturn sellers and customers couldn't come to enough agreements to sustain the business.
Fundamentally the problem though is everyone is self-serving. We see things from whatever PoV benefits us most. Not because is some fundamental truth, but because that is us humans. We are a self serving bunch. It works, but it is kind of funny too.
So even when sellers and buyers need each other, they are often antagonists. But the real problem in the SCs is that it is 3-way scenario. What is good for the club owners is not necessarily good for the dancers. The anger over that is sometimes taken out on the buyers, in particular the guys who enjoy the free show which pleases the club owner but not the dancers. Such is life... but also it is all too stressful. I'm going to enjoy my play money in some way that is FUN this year :)
princessjas
10-07-2009, 07:55 PM
Huh? No meaningful conversation takes places in clubs in fact many dancers pretend to not speak English so they don't have to talk. If I want to have a meaningful conversation I don't go to a SC; talk is cheap.
Of all the "regs/custies" who's company you enjoyed in the club have you spoken to IRL. How many have taken you to get your hair done? :P
None, I didn't meet guys OTC. One did find out from a fellow dancer my car had been towed though and paid over $800 to get it out...showed up the next night at work to tell me my bill had been paid, that I could go get my car the next day. This guy never even bought a LD from me so I always felt somewhat awkward and offered to pay him back. He declined.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 08:18 PM
LOL
I'll make you a deal....you stay outta my hood, and I won't send my butch friends to kick your ass.
I have this thing I do where I pull the hood back but I will respect your request.
chris91
10-07-2009, 09:57 PM
Your words, not mine.
I advocated he go in, tip accordingly, and act like a gentleman, but you managed to miss that part in your cherry-picking. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of people in the club ( owners, dancers, and customers alike ) are there for their own selfish reasons. They are all looking out for themselves first and everyone else is a distant second. Tell me I'm wrong.
I don't understand how you can worry only about what management requires AND be a gentleman who tips. Those two things are opposites.
It's not my problem either. I am responsible for my spending and not once ever tried to blame anyone for any lessons I might have learned a long time ago. It still doesn't mean it should be open season on every drunk or clueless guy. What's wrong with saying " you know we're already up to $150 ( or whatever), should we keep going?"
Bringing up the specific amount of money that a guy owes kills the mood. It destroys the illusion of genuine interest on my part. I'm not trying to take advantage of anyone. I just trying to do my damn job and make a sale. I do ask if I should keep going between each song, but I do not feel that I am obligated in any way to do so.
Look, I'm not saying you should do any more than treat people the way you'd like to be treated if you were in their shoes, yet you take offense at that.
As I said before, I do not like to be treated like a child. By not updating a guy on his tab every ten minutes, I am treating him the way that I would like to be treated. Like a adult who is not a moron. It's fucking simple. You multiply the number of songs by the cost of a dance. Any guy who cannot figure that out is welcome to join me in the champagne room for a topless math lesson.
Also, I'm not offended by the suggestion that I treat people as I would like to be treated. I'm offended by the implication that we are assholes if we don't play accountant for our customers.
chris91
10-07-2009, 10:16 PM
I spend my money on those I want to and I do spend. I never treat any dancer badly unless you count not doing $800 VIP; I guess that does count.
LD are the biggest hustle and PLs blow the rent money on them because they are beguiled by women; as you said, "We are trying to get you to spend money". I don't know of any New Jersey club that lets the private dances build up; they must be paid for up front. Some towns do not permit private dances as they know the danger.
This is why PLs and dancers are like oil and water accept it it will never change as it is the nature of the business.
If I go to a restaurant the prices are clearly listed and I know how much I can spend and for what. I know what is going on with LD why get angry because a few PL can keep the blood in the big head? Do away with LD and that will do away with extras; that is what Newark thinks but they are wrong.
Um, I was talking about guys who come in when the club is empty and sit at the bar with no intention of buying a dance from anyone, while we go on stage for him and him alone and get naked for no money or a measly 2 bucks. That qualifies as treating the dancers poorly.
I don't know wtf you are talking about.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-07-2009, 10:35 PM
Um, I was talking about guys who come in when the club is empty and sit at the bar with no intention of buying a dance from anyone, while we go on stage for him and him alone and get naked for no money or a measly 2 bucks. That qualifies as treating the dancers poorly.
I can see how that would make you unhappy but we are going in circles.
The PL probably thinks you are getting paid to dance by the owner; he thinks why would she dance for free. Let's be honest PL don't have a clue about a dancers job as we are told over and over again so forgive them for they know not what they do.
chris91
10-07-2009, 11:08 PM
I can see how that would make you unhappy but we are going in circles.
http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1857150&postcount=51
The PL probably thinks you are getting paid to dance by the owner; he thinks why would she dance for free. Let's be honest PL don't have a clue about a dancers job as we are told over and over again so forgive them for they know not what they do.
I know this doesn't happen everywhere, but in my club the dj announces over and over that "These ladies are working for tips and tips alone".
I'm not totally unreasonable. I know that some guys are from countries or areas where dancers are paid or tipping simply isn't a thing that people do. I know that sometimes it's impossible to understand what the dj is saying or maybe the dude just isn't listening. That's why I don't yell at guys who sit around not tipping.
I do think that most of the guys on this site know the deal, which is why I get so pissed when they start talking nonsense.
Elvia
10-07-2009, 11:42 PM
I was not speaking of all dancers; I will tip who I want when I want. That is going to upset the ones that only get a few dollars from me; especially as I'm usually one of a very few PLs in the club.
Remember these women are not even topless and I have to sit at the bar no corners to hide in. Twenty dancers and three customers most dancers are going to be upset as I can't tip twenty dancers a dollar each every three minutes. Especially when I'm occupied sitting with a dancer that is not upset.
I feel like I'm in a dollar parade club; more dancing and less walking around demanding a dollar by holding out a bra strap.
I thought we were talking about your behavior on this site (trolling). Why are you telling me about how you behave in a club? What does that have to do with anything?
Earl_the_Pearl
10-08-2009, 12:14 AM
I thought we were talking about your behavior on this site (trolling). Why are you telling me about how you behave in a club? What does that have to do with anything?
Actually we were talking about not upsetting dancers so we should not go into a club if we don't want to spend $400 an hour on an unknown experience. I can see PLs are taking this advice as I am constantly one of the few PLs in the club; I don't go as often or stay as long. If I ever walk into a club and am the only customer and I see a dancer get up on stage I will now walk out and not buy a drink; don't be offended if it is you, I'm doing you a favor.
One can upset all of the dancers some of the time, some of the dancers all of the time but one cannot upset all of the dancers all of the time.
Can we talk; no matter what at the end of the day there is no love lost or gained in a SC.
Elvia
10-08-2009, 12:29 AM
Actually we were talking about not upsetting dancers so we should not go into a club if we don't want to spend $400 an hour on an unknown experience. I can see PLs are taking this advice as I am constantly one of the few PLs in the club; I don't go as often or stay as long. If I ever walk into a club and am the only customer and I see a dancer get up on stage I will now walk out and not buy a drink; don't be offended if it is you, I'm doing you a favor.
One can upset all of the dancers some of the time, some of the dancers all of the time but one cannot upset all of the dancers all of the time.
Can we talk; no matter what at the end of the day there is no love lost or gained in a SC.
We were talking about xdamage's situation, not yours. But I see now you would like exaggerate and pout and whine and stick with the idea that one has to spend hundreds of dollars in order to be tolerated, as untrue as that obviously is. My mistake. I guess I forgot who I was talking to for a moment- the man who expanded the definition of PL so he could be included.
xdamage
10-08-2009, 06:03 AM
I know this doesn't happen everywhere, but in my club the dj announces over and over that "These ladies are working for tips and tips alone".
Well that is what he has to do. People know about the tipping, but they don't want to do it. There are many businesses in the USA where people basically work for tips, and whatever salary they receive is insignificant. Some have even argued that tipping as a model is failing because there is too much of it. People have grown numb to it because they are being hit up for tips in multiple business now.
I tip because it is easy to put ourselves in other people's shoes and say "hey, if that was me, doing their job, I'd want to be tipped", but...
In other countries there is little or no tipping (no idea how it works in SCs though). To be honest I rather like it. There is enough included in the bills to cover the tips in the form of salaries; no honor system required. No thinking needed, but it isn't really a choice either. Again no idea how that would work at a SC but like here, it is not like SCs are common overseas. They exist here and there, but in small numbers.
The hard reality though is that a lot of us have been though economic downturns before. We saw it in the 70s and 80s, and while we do expect an upturn in a few years, many people do hunker down when the economy is bad. It is not that people stop spending on entertainment completely, but we tend to save more in case we are layed off. And the way most people do it is by cutting various large extraneous expenses, usually starting with luxury items, or at least cutting back on them significantly. The other way is by bargain shopping, which there tends to be a lot of in an economic downturn.
Since it is unlikely we customers will go on spending wildly like we did in the 90s it comes down to we can go less often (and bring more on those trips), or go but spend less, or just not go. But except for the addicted, which I'm not, I'm probably fairly typical in that I'm cutting back on expenses and putting more into savings. So my question really was about the middle option; interesting to read the answers here.