View Full Version : Don't go to strip clubs....
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bem401
10-08-2009, 06:37 AM
I don't understand how you can worry only about what management requires AND be a gentleman who tips. Those two things are opposites.
They are not opposites, they are unrelated. Not meeting the bare minimum of what management requires will get you tossed out. Not meeting what the dancers want will get you called a useless asshole, but it won't get you thrown out. I only visit one club nowadays and when I go, which is fairly often, I am ready, willing, and able to spend on the girl(s) I went in to see in the first place. I don't feel obliged to spend on anyone else, nor do I necessarily even want to interact with or pay attention to anyone else.
Bringing up the specific amount of money that a guy owes kills the mood. It destroys the illusion of genuine interest on my part. I'm not trying to take advantage of anyone. I just trying to do my damn job and make a sale. I do ask if I should keep going between each song, but I do not feel that I am obligated in any way to do so.
Well, I'm not into the whole illusion thing myself. The whole attraction of paying someone who, as you say, creates an "illusion of genuine interest" is lost on me. I suppose I am equating illusion with deception.
And I never implied you are an asshole for not keeping the customer apprised of what he owes. I just think its the right thing to do. Intentionally miscounting would make you an asshole though. The guys should be responsible for what they are spending. The fact that many are "off their game" as someone said earlier, doesn't make it right to exploit that any more than it is OK for a customer to do the same to a vulnerable dancer.
victoriagivens
10-08-2009, 07:00 AM
But how else can I import to you the fact that the dollar I give you is really equivalent to a twenty of just a few years ago and I'm expecting you to provide stripper attention like it is a $20. Cuz it was...once; before I lost my retirement, then my job and now I'm upside down in my house. Don't I deserve a dance for my dollar (really $20)? Can I at least get a hug and a kleenex? :(
Yes, your $1 was a $20 a few years ago. But our $1 was still $1 even 20 years ago. While every other professional gets at least a cost of living raise once in a while, dancers have always got $1 tips. Dancers don't have a 401K. Dancers have great job security but only because they don't get a paycheck. Instead, they pay the club to work for for free. Make sure you hug her back.
xdamage
10-08-2009, 07:31 AM
...I just think its the right thing to do...
Honest dealings with others is of course a general matter that people tend to have or not; some do it because they believe in it, and hope to be treated fairly in turn; some do not and choose short-term gains over any sense of long term fair (they don't want to be caught of course, but they are motivated by fear of punishment more then a sense of right, they also tend to be the biggest cry babies when others take advantage of them), but... I don't think we can change people's outlook in this regard. If they haven't learned it by their 20s chances are nothing we say will really alter their thinking.
Also unfortunately we can never know in advance who we are dealing with so it falls on us to assume the worst and not place our trust in another to watch our backs in a deal.
Fortunately I'd say the vast majority of dancers counted correctly; I can recall one who I thought had padded the count, but okay, minus $40 and not the end of the world. The main problem is if there is debate then it can turn into a hassle, which is exactly what I don't want when I'm out trying to have some fun. And of course the dancers are correct that there is a tension at play between their goal to sell dances, keeping the fantasy fully fueled which on some level the customers want because it is what keeps them spending, and the cool down time after, the pain of paying off the bill at the end.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-08-2009, 10:06 AM
In any event, retarded or not, in the course of a series of LD's, you would understandably be focusing on the dance number whereas he'd be focusing on anything but that.
That's funny some PL is all hot and horney and dancers use every trick to get him to stay that way during a private dance.
Most DJ do not have dead air; in fact they will start another song before one has ended. How the heck is a PL in diminished capacity going to be able to count songs? In fact if the dancer says it was 6 songs she is the sole arbitrator of that alleged fact as there is no tote sheet.
Thank the creator that does not happen in New Jersey; after every song the bouncer comes calling unless the PL bought extra dances up front.
chris91
10-08-2009, 11:01 AM
The fact that many are "off their game" as someone said earlier, doesn't make it right to exploit that any more than it is OK for a customer to do the same to a vulnerable dancer.
I agree. I just don't think that not saying, "We're up to $150", qualifies as exploitation.
chris91
10-08-2009, 11:15 AM
How the heck is a PL in diminished capacity going to be able to count songs?
Well, here's how we do it in the biz. You start with the number 1 for the first song. So, 1 = the number of dances you've done. Now here's where it gets tricky: When the song changes, you add 1 to the number of dances you've done. So, 1+1=2. Now 2 is the number of dances you've done. Continue adding one to your total at the start of each new song, and voila! You are now counting songs.
If this is too difficult for you to keep track of in your head, you can use your fingers.
Tomorrow's lesson: How to multiply the cost of a dance by the number of dances you've done.
JayATee
10-08-2009, 11:40 AM
How the heck is a PL in diminished capacity going to be able to count songs?
LoL. Are you fucking kidding me? If you can't count you have no business in a SC.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-08-2009, 11:54 AM
LoL. Are you fucking kidding me? If you can't count you have no business in a SC.
In New Jersey we don't have to count; in Newark private dancer are illegal as they are just wrong.
So the PL should not pay attention to the dancer but count songs even if there are no brakes between songs.
I really do understand you have to do what you have to do but that is what is causing the downward spiral in the business.
I’m the PL dancers don’t like; I will tip a stage show and buy them a drink and even pay for their time at the bar but I will not do private dances because I have gotten hustled, always.
Golden_Rule
10-08-2009, 03:05 PM
Ok, so this is purely a matter of "intuition" and nothing else? No wonder it didn't seem to have a lot of merit.
::) ! :O ? ::) !
You see, it is precisely that you can claim that a statement about letting yourself be guided by your conscience is "simply intuition" and doesn't have a lot or merit that I find absolutely amazing. How do you find it in you to pass judgment on others with an approach to life like that?
No need to go on with this. We are clearly on two different wavelengths on this subject.
wishing well...
----
Related Side Note: That is the very basis of the "get over effect" I keep saying is wrong about strip-clubs now-days. Not enough square dealing. Few using their conscience in dealing with each other. That law of the jungle mentality that says, "If you aren't strong enough to prevent me from taking advantage of you than you are fair game." Even taking it an unapologetic step further in the case of some that their victims actually deserved it for being weak in the first place.
The hypocritical thing about it is that guys and gals alike on these pages will comment about their ill treatment at the hands of their opposite number, but aren't willing to give to others precisely that which they demand for themselves.
Like I said: Amazing.
Golden_Rule
10-08-2009, 03:17 PM
But on the flip side it is not a cheap form of entertainment so if the experience isn't great I pass. There are so many ways I can spend a few hundred bucks from amaziong meals, to gadgets, to $400 paid for plane fare and a room at the Hard Rock Vegas for 4 nights, etc., that if I'm going to spend it on < 1hrs worth of entertainment then it needs to be a good experience.
To me that is just applied common sense.
Even if you have money [and quite possibly it is the reason you do] you have to be able to put things in perspective in the real world.
If spending a night at a strip-club is going to cost me as much as a three day weekend at Oaks Bluff up in the Vineyard than I have to look at it objectively and ask myself, "Out of which of these will I derive more pleasure."
I'm not so far gone that I can't readily see that in the vast majority of the cases a long weekend in Martha's Vineyard is going to be more pleasurable than lap dances, extras, or anything else a dancer is going to give me. [Nothing against the dancers. In fact I am sure the more logical of them present would probably agree with me.]
Things have value and, to me, that value has a place proportionate to other things of value in real world terms. I make my decisions on how to spend my money accordingly.
laurcon
10-08-2009, 03:21 PM
I really do understand you have to do what you have to do but that is what is causing the downward spiral in the business.
I’m the PL dancers don’t like; I will tip a stage show and buy them a drink and even pay for their time at the bar but I will not do private dances because I always get hustled, always.
you get hustled because you expect to get hustled. ever read the secret?
xdamage
10-08-2009, 03:43 PM
Well, here's how we do it in the biz. You start with the number 1 for the first song. So, 1 = the number of dances you've done. Now here's where it gets tricky: When the song changes, you add 1 to the number of dances you've done. So, 1+1=2. Now 2 is the number of dances you've done. Continue adding one to your total at the start of each new song, and voila! You are now counting songs.
If this is too difficult for you to keep track of in your head, you can use your fingers.
Tomorrow's lesson: How to multiply the cost of a dance by the number of dances you've done.
HAHAHAHA okay I busted out at this.
Elvia
10-08-2009, 07:06 PM
::) ! :O ? ::) !
You see, it is precisely that you can claim that a statement about letting yourself be guided by your conscience is "simply intuition" and doesn't have a lot or merit that I find absolutely amazing. How do you find it in you to pass judgment on others with an approach to life like that?
No need to go on with this. We are clearly on two different wavelengths on this subject.
wishing well...
----
Related Side Note: That is the very basis of the "get over effect" I keep saying is wrong about strip-clubs now-days. Not enough square dealing. Few using their conscience in dealing with each other. That law of the jungle mentality that says, "If you aren't strong enough to prevent me from taking advantage of you than you are fair game." Even taking it an unapologetic step further in the case of some that their victims actually deserved it for being weak in the first place.
The hypocritical thing about it is that guys and gals alike on these pages will comment about their ill treatment at the hands of their opposite number, but aren't willing to give to others precisely that which they demand for themselves.
Like I said: Amazing.
Yes, we all have a conscience. But our conscience is not always guided by something as vague as "just a feeling." We can arrive to the conclusion of what is right or wrong through intellectual means as well (Although in this situation, YOU obviously can't.)
Whenever someone here raises the issue that some people need to be protected from themselves in the SC, the obvious question that arises is how does one determine when someone needs to be protected from themselves and their own decisions, and when it's best to just trust someone to know what they want and make their own decisions. Save for the most extreme examples, that question is never really answered. To say "you should just have a gut feeling" doesn't really do much to illuminate the issue either. That kind of intuitive response is very subjective, it can be right or completely wrong and there's no way to really to know, so it's not really something we can discuss.
xdamage
10-08-2009, 07:51 PM
You see, it is precisely that you can claim that a statement about letting yourself be guided by your conscience is "simply intuition" and doesn't have a lot or merit that I find absolutely amazing. How do you find it in you to pass judgment on others with an approach to life like that?
GR, I think your experiences are unique as are Elvia's.
I don't relate directly to your experiences as a cop, but perhaps slightly having worked with mentally ill criminals in LA in Norwalk, for those who wouldn't make it in jail. Intuition does play a role when 5 people care for 40-50 rapists, sociopaths, murders, in a facility where patients move freely.
Your experience as a cop is a complex one because you deal with people on the street, presumed innocent, citizens, the law put you in positions where you had to make snap judgments based on limited information, and you likely found, as I did, that if you treat people fairly, even criminals, it goes a long way toward keeping the peace. Besides we learn that others experiences really are all over the board and we can't fully relate some of it, which leads into...
Neither of us has been a dancer. If we hear the same themes repeated dozens of times at some point we have to stop and go hmm... maybe if were in that position we'd end up behaving similarly, choosing similarly, judging similarly because it is what works.
And you know I respect you GR, love reading your posts, so this is not meant as a diss. But you are a product of your many years of unique experiences as we all our. Yours lead you to see life in a certain way, which I respect and maybe mildly relate too. But I also accept that I have almost no grasp of what life would be like as a stripper, and so to some degree have to accept, if I was them, lived life in their shoes, that I'd also see fair/right/sufficient-responsibility more or less as the majority of dancers see it.
Food for thought?
chris91
10-08-2009, 08:34 PM
The hypocritical thing about it is that guys and gals alike on these pages will comment about their ill treatment at the hands of their opposite number, but aren't willing to give to others precisely that which they demand for themselves.
Like I said: Amazing.
I have never ever, in 13 years of dancing, seen a dancer blame a customer for something she chose to do while "off her game". We complain about "ill treatment" like guys who sexually assault us, refuse to pay for their dances, or call us bitches. That is not the same thing as selling a dance to a drunk guy.
I do allow my conscience to guide me, and my conscience says that it's a dick move to go around making decisions for other people whom you, in your infinite wisdom, have deemed incapable of making those decisions for themselves.
Imagine that you went to Dennys and the waitress refused to serve you bacon, because she decided that you were too fat and shouldn't be eating fatty foods. It's insulting, and it most certainly is white knight shit. Save your interventions for your family and friends.
chris91
10-08-2009, 08:39 PM
I will tip a stage show and buy them a drink and even pay for their time at the bar but I will not do private dances because I always get hustled, always.
Feeling like a victim doesn't make you a victim. Some people believe that they've been abducted and anally probed by aliens, but of course, they have not. They are just stupid, mentally ill, or starved for attention.
bem401
10-09-2009, 05:18 AM
Some people believe that they've been abducted and anally probed by aliens, but of course, they have not. They are just stupid, mentally ill, or starved for attention.
Since a good percentage of SC customers are also either stupid, mentally ill, or starved for attention, does that mean they are on a par with the "abducted by aliens" crowd? Seems to me they both live in a fantasy world. And would it be ethical to exploit their delusions to ones benefit? I'm asking about the alien-wackos here, but could easily be asking about the stripclub nuts.
laurcon
10-09-2009, 11:47 AM
Since a good percentage of SC customers are also either stupid, mentally ill, or starved for attention, does that mean they are on a par with the "abducted by aliens" crowd? Seems to me they both live in a fantasy world. And would it be ethical to exploit their delusions to ones benefit? I'm asking about the alien-wackos here, but could easily be asking about the stripclub nuts.
well this has a pretty obvious answer. is exploitation ever ethical?
chris91
10-09-2009, 11:55 AM
Since a good percentage of SC customers are also either stupid, mentally ill, or starved for attention, does that mean they are on a par with the "abducted by aliens" crowd? Seems to me they both live in a fantasy world. And would it be ethical to exploit their delusions to ones benefit? I'm asking about the alien-wackos here, but could easily be asking about the stripclub nuts.
This is a loaded question in that it assumes that selling dances qualifies as exploitation. I'm not falling for it.
Vyanka
10-09-2009, 11:56 AM
^^^ There's quite a difference between suggesting that someone who doesn't have money to burn refrain from going to expensive establishments, and suggesting that it's somehow ok to sexually assault someone. As a sales person, it IS my job to try to sell dances,and this should be expected. If I go to a furniture store, I can expect someone will try to sell me furniture. If I go to a car dealership, I can expect someone will try to sell me a car. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that in a strip club, someone is going to try to sell you a dance. It is not my job to be the recipient of whatever sexual abuse someone wants to throw my way. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. An analogous situation seems to be if I went to an expensive restaurant, got pissed that I couldn't reasonably afford anything, and instead of leaving decided to spend my rent money on a lavish dinner anyway, then verbally abuse the waitress to make myself feel better. Doesn't sound reasonable to me. A woman who's raped in a vip room clearly is a victim. A guy who walked into a strip club and spent money he shouldn't have of his own free will...not so much.
Yeah, I didn't get that either.
Vyanka
10-09-2009, 11:58 AM
^^^ There's quite a difference between suggesting that someone who doesn't have money to burn refrain from going to expensive establishments, and suggesting that it's somehow ok to sexually assault someone. As a sales person, it IS my job to try to sell dances,and this should be expected. If I go to a furniture store, I can expect someone will try to sell me furniture. If I go to a car dealership, I can expect someone will try to sell me a car. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that in a strip club, someone is going to try to sell you a dance. It is not my job to be the recipient of whatever sexual abuse someone wants to throw my way. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. An analogous situation seems to be if I went to an expensive restaurant, got pissed that I couldn't reasonably afford anything, and instead of leaving decided to spend my rent money on a lavish dinner anyway, then verbally abuse the waitress to make myself feel better. Doesn't sound reasonable to me. A woman who's raped in a vip room clearly is a victim. A guy who walked into a strip club and spent money he shouldn't have of his own free will...not so much.
And thank you for this!
Vyanka
10-09-2009, 12:06 PM
How many customers know exactly how many dances they want up front? I've never had someone request "8 lapdances" upfront, though plenty of people are happy to end up buying that many.
I think you do have something of a point, and I do always ask the customer if they want another dance. I personally do let them know how far we've gone every three songs, but I also think if someone is going to just keep asking for dance after dance, he should probably be keeping track himself as well. How can you go for 8 dances and not have some idea of how many you've bought?
As I've said, I think dancers are responsible fortheir own choices and any girl who can't keep control of herself in the club needs to leave the business or be fired. But the same goes for customers. If you go to a restaurant and start ordering dish after dish and drink after drink, you don't expect the waitress to keep warning you how much you're spending throughout the night. I don't know why the SC is the one place where so many guys feel they're not responsible for their own decisions.
ELvia, you have so many valid points. Thank you very much. :)
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
10-09-2009, 01:09 PM
Dancers don't have a 401K.
Dancers can have a 401K if they want to, or at least the equivalent if they are self-employed (i-K or SEP IRA). Lots of self-employed people save for retirement, there is no reasons for strippers not do the same. Investments don't care what you do for a living.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 02:56 PM
Well, here's how we do it in the biz. You start with the number 1 for the first song. So, 1 = the number of dances you've done. Now here's where it gets tricky: When the song changes, you add 1 to the number of dances you've done. So, 1+1=2. Now 2 is the number of dances you've done. Continue adding one to your total at the start of each new song, and voila! You are now counting songs.
If this is too difficult for you to keep track of in your head, you can use your fingers.
HAHAHAHA okay I busted out at this.
I guess xdamage had his fingers occupied elsewhere.
I can recall one who I thought had padded the count, but okay, minus $40 and not the end of the world. The main problem is if there is debate then it can turn into a hassle, which is exactly what I don't want when I'm out trying to have some fun.
Dancers want all PLs to be pussy whipped; that is how they bank. In the clubs I frequent.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/earlcamembert/Homeydontplay.jpg
PLs in some clubs live for "hassles", hassles to to extream.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 02:58 PM
you get hustled because you expect to get hustled. ever read the secret?
No I don't do private dances ergo I don't get hustled.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 03:00 PM
Feeling like a victim doesn't make you a victim. Some people believe that they've been abducted and anally probed by aliens, but of course, they have not. They are just stupid, mentally ill, or starved for attention.
I don't feel like a victim as I don't do private dances; I ask her no questions and she tells me no lies.
laurcon
10-09-2009, 03:01 PM
No I don't do private dances ergo I don't get hustled.
sorry can't understand how i could have gotten the idea that you get hustled...
I will tip a stage show and buy them a drink and even pay for their time at the bar but I will not do private dances because I always get hustled, always.
(yay i figured out how to multi-quote like 2 yrs later!)
xdamage
10-09-2009, 03:12 PM
Dancers want all PLs to be pussy whipped; that is how they bank. In the clubs I frequent.
I don't really know what this means.
I'm not really concerned with how dancers treat everyone else or what percentage of guys are whipped. I have better things to do then worry about if other guys are getting ripped off or making decisions in full or partial consciousness.
I take responsibility for my choices and it is not super hard to figure out the dancers are putting on a show. Oh sure, some dancers try very hard to keep the money flowing but that is also what I want too; it's what most guys want, a good illusion.
I think my main gripe is the same I have with so many of the AC casinos. They are okay but don't live up to the level of energy I feel in Vegas places. When I did visit Vegas in August I stopped into Sapphires one night and had a great time. Bought a bunch of dances. The dancers (as usual in Vegas) were really really REALLY good at putting on a show, and that made it worth spending nearly as much on that one night as it costs for the plane ride out and room at the Hard Rock for 4 nights. I certainly wouldn't want the dancer to put on a crappy show trying to second guess if I knew the score.
The place here is just sort of ho-hum. Nothing wrong with it but it doesn't feel worth spending what it costs to really enjoy myself so no biggie; I'll save my money and hopefully early next year I'll have some time for a vacation and a night at one of the Vegas places.
laurcon
10-09-2009, 03:19 PM
sounds like a good plan xdamage, that will be more fun. :)
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 03:21 PM
sorry can't understand how i could have gotten the idea that you get hustled...
(yay i figured out how to multi-quote like 2 yrs later!)
Thank you, I changed the verbs to past tense.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 03:22 PM
I don't really know what this means.
I'm not really concerned with how dancers treat everyone else or what percentage of guys are whipped.
If a dancer pads the number of dances she did for a PL and he doesn't call her on it he is whipped.
Elvia
10-09-2009, 03:27 PM
Why (and how) are you watching other people's dances so intently to know that this is a regular occurence at your club?
JayATee
10-09-2009, 03:42 PM
(yay i figured out how to multi-quote like 2 yrs later!)
LoL!!! Too cute.
bem401
10-09-2009, 03:42 PM
This is a loaded question in that it assumes that selling dances qualifies as exploitation. I'm not falling for it.
It is a loaded question and it has now occurred to me that we may be talking about different types of customers and different types of dancers. Either you or laurcon commented somewhere about not wanting to get involved with regulars, when that's the type of guy I'm thinking primarily of. I have little or no sympathy for any guy who spends everything he has on him in a given night. I am conflicted over the guys I've watched bled dry over time. That's the deception I'm alluding to.
Oh, and can someone tell me via PM how to multiquote.
Elvia
10-09-2009, 03:48 PM
Oh, and can someone tell me via PM how to multiquote.
*raises hand* Uh...me too. I'm embarrassed to admit I still don't know how to do this :-[
bem401
10-09-2009, 04:04 PM
*raises hand* Uh...me too. I'm embarrassed to admit I still don't know how to do this :-[
I found a way to do it by retyping the whole quote thing with the number over and over for each piece of the quote, but there has to be an easier way.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 04:10 PM
Why (and how) are you watching other people's dances so intently to know that this is a regular occurence at your club?
I'm just going by what was posted in this very thread. Knowing the nature of private dances it happens more times than a PL will ever know. Dancer that was 8 songs $200; PL OK.
I can recall one who I thought had padded the count, but okay, minus $40 and not the end of the world. The main problem is if there is debate then it can turn into a hassle, which is exactly what I don't want when I'm out trying to have some fun.
I have no problem with that it is in the business plan.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 04:12 PM
I found a way to do it by retyping the whole quote thing with the number over and over for each piece of the quote, but there has to be an easier way.
Copy and past each quote; easier than counting dances.
laurcon
10-09-2009, 04:15 PM
^ you just hit the m-quote for all the posts you want to include in yours and when you're on your last one hit "quote" and everything should be there in your post! i hope to see plenty of multi-quotes now 8)
Vyanka
10-09-2009, 04:19 PM
Hit "m-quote", then hit "quote" on the next post you want to reply to. When you are done writing, hit "post reply" on the last post. It's simple. :)
chris91
10-09-2009, 04:19 PM
I think it's like this:
If you want to quote three things, then you click m-quote for the first two and quote for the last one. It got all screwed up when I tried to multiquote from two different pages.
vmurphy252
10-09-2009, 04:25 PM
^ you just hit the m-quote for all the posts you want to include in yours and when you're on your last one hit "quote" and everything should be there in your post! i hope to see plenty of multi-quotes now 8)
Hit "m-quote", then hit "quote" on the next post you want to reply to. When you are done writing, hit "post reply" on the last post. It's simple. :)
This is the best thread ever because of this...
xdamage
10-09-2009, 04:58 PM
If a dancer pads the number of dances she did for a PL and he doesn't call her on it he is whipped.
Oh I see.
I may have mis-counted, she may have, I wasn't going to ruin the night over $40 (not after spending so much more on the vacation and what I was spending that night anyway), I asked are you sure? thought it was X, nope it was X+2? X was a big enough number it wasn't worth stressing over, but OTOH I didn't spend anymore on her either as it soured some of the fun.
On the flip side it has gone the other way. I have over counted by 1 because it was unclear when the dance started and they've said no it was X-1, starting dance didn't count (I still pay for X plus tip). Probably they knew it was smarter to give me the benefit of doubt as they were later tipped more for the gesture.
But in general I don't call people out on every perceived slight. It's not worth it. There are times it is, and times not. On the flip side I see people who do call others out (though seemingly are blind to their own frequent slighting of others), and end up losers. So you don't need to worry about me. I make my choices, even those to cut people some slack, with eyes wide open. The money matters but there is a complexity and higher ethics that matters too. It's called not losing the war for the sake of winning the battle.
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 05:08 PM
It's called not losing the war for the sake of winning the battle.
I don't look at it like a war or battle; I just want them to know I count my change. If they want my change they have to entertain me; that is their job is it not. Beer ladies are well know for short changing a PL they perceive as intoxicated.
Oh they talk and if a PL is known for being lax in financial matters he will be the beading seal in shark infested waters.
xdamage
10-09-2009, 05:19 PM
I don't look at it like a war or battle; I just want them to know I count my change. If they want my change they have to entertain me; that is their job is it not. Beer ladies are well know for short changing a PL they perceive as intoxicated.
Oh they talk and if a PL is known for being lax in financial matters he will be the beading seal in shark infested waters.
There is a general trend in our country that businesses over charge for repairs, sell useless add-on warranties that are very hard to cash in when needed, sell products with "lifetime warranties" that are useless, that make unsubstantiated claims, and more. It is wise to be leary of course. But if I really felt every dancer was dishonest I wouldn't go because it is not fun to do business with others who try to cheat me. I don't need strip clubs that badly. Maybe it is the region you go to SCs in, NJ? I think they were honest in this PA club though, and likewise generally so in Vegas clubs.
laurcon
10-09-2009, 05:51 PM
i worked at a lot of different jersey clubs when i was 18-22 and in college. would work someplace for a week or two on my breaks. i never saw what earl talks about. then again, i didn't give LDs because i didn't want to grind on a guy like earl for $10, after the club's cut. i could make decent money from stage-only 4 yrs ago. i hate to read earl constantly sully jersey's already stellar reputation. some jersey clubs are very stage-oriented and have hot, nice, fun dancers. they're not all filled with extras and sleazy guys and dollar-crazed dancers, but obviously many are. :-\
idk what my point is, but jersey is a great place! :)
Golden_Rule
10-09-2009, 11:38 PM
..so this is not meant as a diss.
Never occurred to me that it would be. Simply not your style.
But you are a product of your many years of unique experiences as we all our. Yours lead you to see life in a certain way...
I try not to limit my vision simply to what is within my own backyard, but to see beyond its fence. Still, I am a human being and subject o all the faults inherent to...
Food for thought?
Anything presented with courtesy, especially by people of goodwill and obvious intelligence is foot for thought.
I think you are aware that human dynamics is an interest of mine. Sociology but with a specific slant on behavioral aspects.
Like astronomers look as deep into the heavens as is possible for its signs, and physicists attempt the same with calculators, computers and centrifuge, that moment that is the essence of the universe, the one equation that solves everything; philosophers seek the simplest resolution to human interaction.
I don't see anything on the horizon that bests: It is always in society's and the self's best long term interest to treat others the way we would want to be treated ourselves.
The Golden Rule. In my book its simple common sense. The most basic of basics.
The funny thing is if you randomly stopped to ask 100 people in this country today to tell you what the Golden Rule is I'd more than a third won't know. If you limit the questioning to people under the age of 25 its possible you'd increase that number quite a bit. I'd bet it might reach over 50%. Maybe well over 50%.
When I worked street crimes and had lots of contact with urban youth you might be surprised how often I heard the excuse, "Why shouldn't I get mine from someone weaker than me. If they are foolish enough not to protect their shit why shouldn't I take it."
Weird thing is you hear CEO's of some major companies saying similar stuff to justify their greed. Like I said, amazing.
Anyway...
Here's my version of the above... I'm going to be dead before the world turns into a total piece of crap because everyone's out for their own at the cost of everyone else. So its not going to be my problem. ;)
Elvia may still be around though. I wonder what she's going to think of it as the trend continues and deepens when she's in her 70's and the kids coming up with even worse POV on the G_R are the ones who have the decision making power on how they treat old folks? }:D
Food for thought? :) [Can you say Soylent Green. I knew you could. ]
Golden_Rule
10-09-2009, 11:44 PM
Please know the last 8 Paragraphs above are somewhat tongue in cheek. To what degree I won't specify.}:D
Earl_the_Pearl
10-09-2009, 11:46 PM
i worked at a lot of different jersey clubs when i was 18-22 and in college. would work someplace for a week or two on my breaks. i never saw what earl talks about. then again, i didn't give LDs because i didn't want to grind on a guy like earl for $10, after the club's cut. i could make decent money from stage-only 4 yrs ago. i hate to read earl constantly sully jersey's already stellar reputation. some jersey clubs are very stage-oriented and have hot, nice, fun dancers. they're not all filled with extras and sleazy guys and dollar-crazed dancers, but obviously many are. :-\
idk what my point is, but jersey is a great place! :)
You will not find a SC in the more affluent towns and very few are nude or topless. There are a few with a low hustle factor and many that do no have private dances.
Of course I find them boring and may as well go to a regular bar and play a different game.
Golden_Rule
10-09-2009, 11:59 PM
I have never ever, in 13 years of dancing, seen a dancer blame a customer for something she chose to do while "off her game".
Truly? I will point out it isn't necessary to my argument that be the case, but I will also point out that on these very pages are examples of same. So maybe you have not seen it, but it exists.
We complain about "ill treatment" like guys who sexually assault us, refuse to pay for their dances, or call us bitches. That is not the same thing as selling a dance to a drunk guy.
No it isn't, and I will point out again that I am not comparing apples to the oranges above. I am comparing apples to apples.
Contrasting the appalling lack of human compassion that exists when a customer takes advantage of a dancer he obviously knows is at a disadvantage to get something from her that she wouldn't normally surrender to a dancer doing precisely the same thing with a customer who is obviously at a disadvantage.
Same-same.
I do allow my conscience to guide me, and my conscience says that it's a dick move to go around making decisions for other people whom you, in your infinite wisdom, have deemed incapable of making those decisions for themselves.
Very cool. Than you are obviously NOT someone of the nature I am speaking about. I'd dare bet though that in your years of experience you've pumped into a few people, customers and dancers alike, who qualify. So you have to have a fairly good idea of what I am talking about.
Imagine that you went to Dennys and the waitress refused to serve you bacon, because she decided that you were too fat and shouldn't be eating fatty foods. It's insulting, and it most certainly is white knight shit. Save your interventions for your family and friends.
NOT, NOT, NOT what I am talking about.
Imagine the bartender who, by his/her extraordinary experience from dealing with drinking people all the time, can tell someone has imbibed beyond their limit willing to serve someone more booze because they promised to tip them particularly well if they did.
That's the comparative scenario. Now you get the picture?