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Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 05:41 PM
They are not thinking the same way. When we sell a dance to a drunk/poor guy, we ask for money and he willingly hands it over. When a guy tries to finger my ass, he doesn't ask for anything, and I certainly don't willingly hand it over. He just jams that shit in there. Get it?
We are asking for something, and the guy is just taking. That's like saying that a homeless person who asks for a dime is the same as a mugger who hits you with a pipe and takes your wallet. Those two things are not the same. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
Do you actually read the posts you are commenting on? {sorry, its frustrating}
PLEASE... this time read.
As I said I said I am ONLY comparing apples to apples. When parties WILLING agree to give over stuff they shouldn't or wouldn't be handing over except for the fact that at that moment they are impaired in some way.
So it is NOT the customer TAKING from the dancer.
Its the customer asking or manipulating in someway something from the dancer she wouldn't give if she was in a normal frame of mind.
Its the dancer asking or manipulating in someway something from the customer he wouldn't give if he was in a normal frame of mind.
APPLES TO APPLES
How do you have a written discussion with people who aren't reading what you are writing??? {UGH!}
This was a response to your post. If you want to drop this just drop it. If you respond it is an invitation for me to respond back. We obviously see the world VERY differently so I am more than willing to let this go if you don't give me reason to do differently.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 05:51 PM
What I think GR is trying to say is, and what he is bothered by, is that some customers are deluded. That they really believe (not sort of kind of, but really) that the dancers love/like them and so they are handing over the money applying rules of life that would make sense elsewhere, but not in clubs, and that they really do get their hearts broken, it really does hurt them deeply, and that the SC industry has not yet been forced to (but probably should) disclose that what is sold is a fantasy and not real.
Hearts broken? Not at all.
I'm a former cop. I care about real world damage. I am talking about the extreme cases where lives are changed forever. Marriages dissolve. Sometimes people even die [like the example I posted about from DD in Phillie]. The 1:1000 cases, but they do exist and they come out of the same crappy "justify my actions even though I know they are a little shaddy, slippery slope stuff" where all the little stuff happens. It just gets taken way over the edge.
I'm talking negligence with other people's well being that can devolve into criminal activity, not broken hearts. [Think like a detective thinks... put in your mind's eye what I have seen, than you might know why this kind of stuff is both interesting and seems important to me. The suffering I have been witness to is quite large, and so much of it was avoidable with just a little good will and square dealing.]
princessjas
10-12-2009, 05:53 PM
You are missing that same point again. :)
In what I am saying one doesn't need to address what society thinks, or the mind of another either. Only what one, themselves, think.
The "flip it" question asks only the one asking it of themselves for the answer.
So it comes back to the most basic philosophical conundrum I posited twice above:
How do you justify doing to someone else that which, when you asked the "flip it" question, you had to admit to yourself you wouldn't want done to you?
To quote Elvia... "You didn't answer the question." :)
Well, even when I was a poor broke stripper/college kid (tuition is a bitch), I went to SC's and blew MUCH more than I should have a few times...and yep alcohol was usually involved. I knew what I was gonna do before I left the house though (even if I tried to convince myself I wouldn't), so why should dancers have tried to convince me I couldn't afford it??? I already KNEW this, and honestly I usually only got drunk to let myself do what I wanted to do anyway...spend more than I should.
I also went to expensive nightclubs, and bought desinger clothing and bought wayyyy too many pairs of shoes, knowing damn well, I was gonna be living on 1/2 pop tart a day or whatever was free at the local happy hour...should these people have stopped me. NOOO it was my life and I was an adult responsible for my own choices...and if I damned well wanted to spend my last dollar to have tits in my face that was MY choice. I would have been PISSED if they ran me out of the SC after I had 3 or uh 6... Should we assume everyone we dance for is an idiot, and does not realize what they are going to do before leaving home??
Get fuckin real. They KNOW what they are doing when they leave the house. ::)
ETA - Do I need to even get into how this is different from them trying to molest us?? Like seriously...It's not even apples to oranges, it's more like apples to...nuclear physics.
Elvia
10-12-2009, 05:53 PM
Just understand the flip side of that same coin is where bad customers justify doing shitty things to you. They're thinking the same way you are above when they try to touch you were you don't want to be touched, act cheap, hound you for extras you don't want to give, ect. Its the customer version of the exact same mind set.
This is what Chris was responding to. What impression do you think that gives? You didn't say a guy trying to coerce you into letting him touch you where you don't want to be touched. You said trying to touch you.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 05:57 PM
I think most customers WANT to have their boundaries pushed, like buying drugs, we want our drugs to really get us high and alter our reality for a time. It is a vacation away from ourselves. But like drugs, some get lost in them.
Yeah, but I can tell you that cops don't give passes to drug dealers simply because the dope addict came looking for the dealer to get their fix.
That's not precisely the same argument though and I don't want to muddy the water more than people are already by my writing red and people reading blue already is. :)
Here is where my argument gets weak though. The Jets are playing the fish... have to go now. :D Already missed the first half hour of the game.
Reminding some folks that this is JUST a discussion about philosophy. I'm not taking any of this personally and would request no one else do.
Thank you and wishing well to ALL.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 06:02 PM
This is what Chris was responding to. What impression do you think that gives? You didn't say a guy trying to coerce you into letting him touch you where you don't want to be touched. You said trying to touch you.
OK, when taken out of context with everything else I wrote you have a valid point. [I have no problem admitting it when its true].
The point I'd make in that in context with everything else I'd written in this thread why would it be perceived that way? I've said more than once I am talking about when people GIVE not TAKE, but the giving is being done by someone impaired in some way where that impairment would be OBVIOUS TO A REASONALBE PERSON... that making it pretty clear that danger might or would be imminent.
Again, the bartender feeding booze to the customer they know is drunk, and doing it because its going to profit them.
Its a narrow thing I am discussing and some keep trying to apply it to all dancer/customer interaction. I'm just talking about when reasonable people ought to know they have a really high potential for f'ing someone else over.
Now I really want to go see that game.
Again, wishing well...
xdamage
10-12-2009, 06:20 PM
Hearts broken? Not at all.
I'm a former cop. I care about real world damage. I am talking about the extreme cases where lives are changed forever. Marriages dissolve. Sometimes people even die [like the example I posted about from DD in Phillie]. The 1:1000 cases, but they do exist and they come out of the same crappy "justify my actions even though I know they are a little shaddy, slippery slope stuff" where all the little stuff happens. It just gets taken way over the edge.
Sadly while I can get mushy about someone's heart being broken, if a guy mortgages his life away for a stripper, or gives it to a casino, or spends it on alcohol and a DUI, etc., yea he has an addictive personality and is likely to keep just bouncing between sellers until he finally finds someone to assist. Even Michael Jackson managed to finally pay someone enough to assist in overdosing him. Don't know what to say, but I don't know if individuals on a self-destruct course can be saved. They seem to find a way to jump and take themselves down along with everyone else in their lives. Unfortunately too it may be that have to do that, hit rock bottom before they will seek help. Would be a Disney world if vice sellers didn't profit along the way but that is 99.99999999% surely an unlikely solution to actually manifest itself society wide.
I'm a former cop. ]
Wow. If I had a penny for every time I heard this, I'd be a millionaire.
Elvia
10-12-2009, 07:13 PM
I've said more than once I am talking about when people GIVE not TAKE, but the giving is being done by someone impaired in some way where that impairment would be OBVIOUS TO A REASONALBE PERSON... that making it pretty clear that danger might or would be imminent.
But in you mind, it's even "reasonable" to assume that a drunk man who appears to be middle class shouldn't be allowed to spend what he sees fit in a club. Therein lies the disagreement.
Elvia
10-12-2009, 07:13 PM
Wow. If I had a penny for every time I heard this, I'd be a millionaire.
I know, I think the same thing every time he says it.
laurcon
10-12-2009, 08:11 PM
GR - princessjas answered your "flip it" question and you ignored it. i would say the same thing. have you ever been refused a service because you were too drunk? people usually don't want that to happen to them, and don't wake up thinking the next morning "man its a good thing they didn't let me into that club cause i was pretty wasted already!"
bottom line, if some one can get their ass to a strip club, they are responsible for what happens.
and trying to touch some one is rare. if some one is in your lap, you either touch them or don't. its not like there's a slow motion grab for the ass that we see and can swat away. this isn't the matrix. and once its happened we're already violated. there's no fixing that like giving back your stupid $20 as we could if you proved you were mentally unfit to make a decision in a court of law or some shit.
but i do feel bad for the thread jack so how bout this... if you are financially or emotionally impaired, don't go into a fucking strip club. dancers may be therapists and accountants on the side, but not while at work, so don't expect those services. expect to pay to have whatever you consider fun, or don't go.
if you want to continue this asinine argument GR, you should start a new thread like "ethics of dancing from a former cop's POV"
chris91
10-12-2009, 08:40 PM
OK, when taken out of context with everything else I wrote you have a valid point. [I have no problem admitting it when its true].
The point I'd make in that in context with everything else I'd written in this thread why would it be perceived that way? I've said more than once I am talking about when people GIVE not TAKE, but the giving is being done by someone impaired in some way where that impairment would be OBVIOUS TO A REASONALBE PERSON... that making it pretty clear that danger might or would be imminent.
Again, the bartender feeding booze to the customer they know is drunk, and doing it because its going to profit them.
Its a narrow thing I am discussing and some keep trying to apply it to all dancer/customer interaction. I'm just talking about when reasonable people ought to know they have a really high potential for f'ing someone else over.
Now I really want to go see that game.
Again, wishing well...
What? First you're talking about dancers selling to guys who are "off their game", then you say you're just making a general (and incredibly condescending) point about how people should follow the golden rule, and now you're back to specifically talking about selling dances to drunk guys? Which is it?
How many dancers in this thread have already said that we would NOT want some stranger telling us that we couldn't purchase something because they judged us incapable of making the decision?
chris91
10-12-2009, 09:19 PM
So it is NOT the customer TAKING from the dancer.
If you are not talking about customers taking from dancers, then stop using examples of customers taking from dancers to make your point. I didn't make that example up. You wrote it.
How do you have a written discussion with people who aren't reading what you are writing??? {UGH!}
Oh I am reading your posts. You'll have to excuse me if I'm having hard time keeping track of all your hopping around and backpedaling. It seems that every time someone calls bullshit, you just say "Oh that isn't what I was saying. Here's what I was saying". Maybe you could clarify your points for us in simple statements. I'll show you how. Here's mine:
1. I don't believe that it is morally wrong to sell a dance to a drunk/poor/stupid guy.
2. When I do sell a dance to a drunk/poor/stupid guy, I am not breaking any golden rule, so I do not have to justify anything.
3. It is obnoxious and rude to stick your fat nose into someone else's business, even if you have decided that they are "off their game."
4. The most important one. Dudes do not manipulate me into giving away things that I would normally not give away. I am not some weakling damsel in distress. When I make a stupid decision, it is because I was being stupid, not because some fucking guy coerced me.
Also, maybe you could try reading my posts. I see that you conveniently missed the most important question, which was this:
If you truly are just trying to point out that the world would be a shinier happier place if people followed the golden rule, the I have to ask you why? Why do you feel it necessary to constantly make speeches on this board about how "people" need to act right? Your constant preaching implies that you believe at least some of us need to hear your shit, because we are not already acting in an ethical manner. Can you not see how rude and condescending that is? And then there's the classic spineless "nice guy" shit where you accuse "people on these very pages" of doing this or that, but refuse to provide any examples.
This was a response to your post. If you want to drop this just drop it. If you respond it is an invitation for me to respond back. We obviously see the world VERY differently so I am more than willing to let this go if you don't give me reason to do differently.
Thank you, gr, for explaining the internet to me. If only all people were kind enough to offer condescending explanations of the simplest things to each other.
Do you do this in real life? If so, how do you deal with the people who don't appreciate the implication that they were too stupid to figure it out on their own?
There was a girl in my group of friends who married a man that you remind me of. When I first met him, he stepped in to explain to me that the video game I was playing had a touchscreen, which is why there were no buttons, and that I had to put dollars in the slot to get game credits. Eventually, we had to stop inviting the girl out with us, because none of us could stand her douchebag husband. Have your friends stopped asking you out yet?
Oh, and just so that you can stop bringing it up, I am officially directly calling you a douchebag.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 09:25 PM
Well, even when I was a poor broke stripper/college kid (tuition is a bitch), I went to SC's and blew MUCH more than I should have a few times...and yep alcohol was usually involved. I knew what I was gonna do before I left the house though (even if I tried to convince myself I wouldn't), so why should dancers have tried to convince me I couldn't afford it??? I already KNEW this, and honestly I usually only got drunk to let myself do what I wanted to do anyway...spend more than I should.
I also went to expensive nightclubs, and bought desinger clothing and bought wayyyy too many pairs of shoes, knowing damn well, I was gonna be living on 1/2 pop tart a day or whatever was free at the local happy hour...should these people have stopped me. NOOO it was my life and I was an adult responsible for my own choices...and if I damned well wanted to spend my last dollar to have tits in my face that was MY choice. I would have been PISSED if they ran me out of the SC after I had 3 or uh 6... Should we assume everyone we dance for is an idiot, and does not realize what they are going to do before leaving home??
Get fuckin real. They KNOW what they are doing when they leave the house. ::)
ETA - Do I need to even get into how this is different from them trying to molest us?? Like seriously...It's not even apples to oranges, it's more like apples to...nuclear physics.
[Game over. Can't say that went the way I wanted it. That's my Jets though: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. How we Jets fans suffer.]
We are still not on the same wave length. Are you talking about going without lunch for a week because you spent too much in the club or on shoes, because that isn't what I am talking about?
I keep saying I'm talking about situations when the person can tell they are, or have a very good potential for, causing REAL damage. Like the two scenarios I used where the old guy is playing with his last real money, or the guy going back multiple times to the ATM who may not make the rent this month because he's giving it to a dancer.
I am sure that Delilah's Den dancer, to usea real life example, didn't start out looking to be part of what fucked that guys life over and ended with the death of his wife, but at some point where he was going well over $100K in she had to have a moment where it occurred to her: "Hmmm. Good chance something bad is going to happen here. Do I continue to contribute to this or do I back the hell out."
If life presented you with a moment like that do you take the money?
[Game over. Can't say that went the way I wanted it. That's my Jets though: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. How we Jets fans suffer.]
We are still not on the same wave length. Are you talking about going without lunch for a week because you spent too much in the club or on shoes, because that isn't what I am talking about?
I keep saying I'm talking about situations when the person can tell they are, or have a very good potential for, causing REAL damage. Like the two scenarios I used where the old guy is playing with his last real money, or the guy going back multiple times to the ATM who may not make the rent this month because he's giving it to a dancer.
I am sure that Delilah's Den dancer, to usea real life example, didn't start out looking to be part of what fucked that guys life over and ended with the death of his wife, but at some point where he was going well over $100K in she had to have a moment where it occurred to her: "Hmmm. Good chance something bad is going to happen here. Do I continue to contribute to this or do I back the hell out."
If life presented you with a moment like that do you take the money?
Hell yeah! Adults are adults, they should be able to make a simple decision as, "Hmmm, should I pay my rent or go buy some lapdances?" People like that get no sympathy from me.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 09:32 PM
Wow. If I had a penny for every time I heard this, I'd be a millionaire.
A millionaire... You might have 35 or 40 cents... :) Still that's a lot at a penny per... put folks keep giving me good reasons to remind them of it. It hasn't not been germane any time I've used it. :D
I'm in a good mood for someone whose team just managed to find a way to lose its lead on the division in front of a national audience in the last minute of the game.
{UGH... well, I was until I wrote that anyway. }
:)
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 09:34 PM
But in you mind, it's even "reasonable" to assume that a drunk man who appears to be middle class shouldn't be allowed to spend what he sees fit in a club. Therein lies the disagreement.
No... I said a drunk man who to a reasonable man standard was obviously in over his head after blowing through the cash in his pocket and making the 3rd or 4th trip to the ATM for $500.
That isn't the same thing as you just wrote.
So, should I feel bad for taking 800$ from a 20 year old boy? That was like two weeks pay for him.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 09:38 PM
I know, I think the same thing every time he says it.
You do know there are catch phrases of your own that you tend to repeat fairly often. Even certain types of threads that you can't resist responding to even though you have responded to similar ones previously and thus already made your views known.
That is true for a lot of prolific posters on this site [any site actually].
So you are commenting about me regarding things you do similarly. The pot calling the kettle black, so to speak.
We are people. We all have topics that hit buttons. Cheap customers are one of yours. This happens to be one of mine.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 09:46 PM
Oh, and just so that you can stop bringing it up, I am officially directly calling you a douchebag.
That's very classy of you. :)
I'll point out that usually the first person to call someone else a douchbag in any discussion is the one losing the argument.
Anyway... {LOL} Thanks for the belly laugh. I needed one after that game.
Have a great night. Seriously. ;)
laurcon
10-12-2009, 09:48 PM
No... I said a drunk man who to a reasonable man standard was obviously in over his head after blowing through the cash in his pocket and making the 3rd or 4th trip to the ATM for $500.
That isn't the same thing as you just wrote.
you're ridiculous! how is this not the same thing? 1st of all, can anyone really take 4 trips to the atm for $500?? its generally a $500 cash limit you can take out at an atm in one day so that people can't get your card and your pin and drain your whole account.
but regardless, how is a man spending over 2 grand anything unusual? GR everyone has told you that some men like to be excessive and we have no idea what they want, so if they agree to buy something we're selling, we don't stop them! you refuse to want to hear us or see what we're writing.
and also you say to a "reasonable man's standards" (well "reasonable man standard but i'm not retyping grammar mistakes). what are those?? how about to the standards of a woman taking her clothes of for said drunk man insisting he wants to stay another hour in VIP?
i'm sure the girl working at delilah's though nothing of a regular spending 100k on her. i've seen it happen at my club with no horrific ending, so why should this dancer think differently?
:banghead:
laurcon
10-12-2009, 09:54 PM
That's very classy of you. :)
I'll point out that usually the first person to call someone else a douchbag in any discussion is the one losing the argument.
Anyway... {LOL} Thanks for the belly laugh. I needed one after that game.
Have a great night. Seriously. ;)
its not just chris, lots of people feel this way. so i guess that means we're all losing and you're winning because we think you're a douche? good logic.
You do know there are catch phrases of your own that you tend to repeat fairly often. Even certain types of threads that you can't resist responding to even though you have responded to similar ones previously and thus already made your views known.
That is true for a lot of prolific posters on this site [any site actually].
So you are commenting about me regarding things you do similarly. The pot calling the kettle black, so to speak.
We are people. We all have topics that hit buttons. Cheap customers are one of yours. This happens to be one of mine.
all of us dancers don't like cheap customers!! its not just an "elvia thing". i'm pretty sure bringing back every thread to you being an ex-cop is strictly a GR thing. it doesn't have to be any special topic to hit your buttons, you'll troll in on anything we're discussing.
chris91
10-12-2009, 10:03 PM
That's very classy of you. :)
I'll point out that usually the first person to call someone else a douchbag in any discussion is the one losing the argument.
Anyway... {LOL} Thanks for the belly laugh. I needed one after that game.
Have a great night. Seriously. ;)
Hey man, I calls em like I sees em. If I am "losing" this argument, it's only because you keep changing rules.
GR: The sky is red.
Me: The sky is not red.
GR: I didn't say it was. I said the sky is blue.
Me: Why would you tell us that the sky is blue? Do you think we're all colorblind?
GR: The sky is red! Can't you read?! It's red just like a banana!
Me: You're a moron.
GR: HA! You called me a moron! I WIN!!!! WOOHOOO I AM SMARTER AND A MORE BETTER PERSON THAN ALL THE STRIPPERS IN THE WORLD!!! duh....drool....
It's retarded.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 10:07 PM
So, should I feel bad for taking 800$ from a 20 year old boy? That was like two weeks pay for him.
I probably would IF it meant he was going to wind up hurt by it in some way. How would you feel if someone was excepting two weeks of your pay?
I know if he were doing that at a poker game I was in I'd literally ask him if he could afford to lose that kind of money. Give him a reason to think.
Yeah, I'm a forward bastard. Yes, I care more about giving someone a reason to think about their actions before going all in than I care about making new friends. I have all the friends I need. Yeah, if my COMMON SENSE told me he hadn't thought it through I would get up from the table rather than be a party to his self destruction.
That's just me.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 10:11 PM
GR: HA! You called me a moron! I WIN!!!! WOOHOOO I AM SMARTER AND A MORE BETTER PERSON THAN ALL THE STRIPPERS IN THE WORLD!!! duh....drool....
It's retarded.
You didn't call me a moron. That would be rude but at least pointed at my ability to make an argument rather than my personality. You called me a douche bag. Totally different class of insult, indicative that you've taken it to a personal level. That you don't know the difference is very telling in my book.
You don't fight fair. Cool I can understand that in a street fight. 'Cept this isn't a street fight.
Anyway...
laurcon
10-12-2009, 10:13 PM
^^^lmao chris! great post.
^ um GR, a 28 yr old dropped 48k at my club one night. at the end of the night he was saying how it was nothing and he'd make twice that in the market tomorrow. you think he would have kept me in the CR if i stopped him at say 10k and asked him if he could really afford it? why must everything be right because you say so!
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 10:27 PM
^^^lmao chris! great post.
^ um GR, a 28 yr old dropped 48k at my club one night. at the end of the night he was saying how it was nothing and he'd make twice that in the market tomorrow. you think he would have kept me in the CR if i stopped him at say 10k and asked him if he could really afford it? why must everything be right because you say so!
Like I said... very different views of the world.
I'd ask someone dropping that much if they could afford it. Sure I would. Yeah, I'm a forward bastard and maybe I hurt his feelings, but that is better than hurting him where it might do more damage.
Yeah I'm about to say it again... I guess some here never had a job where you have to count on others to protect you to the point where they might have to put themselves in harms way to save you. Put you before themselves.
Some of you would make lousy partners. Not exactly "stand up" types. :)
Hey, it is what it is. Its a dog eat dog world and everyone for themselves.
That's what I love about this place. Every time I think I can't be amazed it finds a new way to surprise me. {chuckling and shaking my head}
Like I have said earlier it has become obvious to me that my approach to life is very different than some of the people present. Does it make anyone better or worse, again I repeat that is between the individual and their higher power to work out. Its not MY place.
Again I'll say I've made any point I thought was valid to make in this discussion. There is little to be gained by my continued redundancy [theirs either]. Those people whose views are obviously contrary to my own aren't changing your mind and it is obvious I'm not changing theirs. The readers have all they need from both sides of the argument to make up their own minds. Intellectually I'm all in and I'm more than happy to let the court of public opinion be the deck of cards that decides the "winner" of this exchange on the river.
Wishing well...
chris91
10-12-2009, 10:30 PM
You didn't call me a moron. That would be rude but at least pointed at my ability to make an argument rather than my personality. You called me a douche bag. Totally different class of insult, indicative that you've taken it to a personal level. That you don't know the difference is very telling in my book.
You don't fight fair. Cool I can understand that in a street fight. 'Cept this isn't a street fight.
Anyway...
A douchebag is someone who believes himself to be very very important and goes around acting like a jerk to everyone while constantly reminding them that he is not a jerk, but a very good guy. He is spineless in that he runs away or changes the subject every time that someone points out his jerkiness.
You've proven yourself a douchebag in this very post, by ignoring all of my valid points, and whining like a big diaper baby. If you don't want to be insulted, then stop insulting everyone here by implying that we are either huge bitches, or too stupid to understand a simple concept like the golden rule.
Get it? follow the golden rule. Don't insult us if you don't want to be insulted by us.
chris91
10-12-2009, 10:35 PM
Some of you would make lousy partners. Not exactly "stand up" types. :)
Oh my god, if I were a cop, and you were my partner, I'd punch you in the face every single day. What a nightmare it must have been for your partners to have to listen to your self righteous bullshit all damn day.
Golden_Rule
10-12-2009, 11:42 PM
A douchebag is someone who believes himself to be very very important and goes around acting like a jerk to everyone while constantly reminding them that he is not a jerk, but a very good guy. He is spineless in that he runs away or changes the subject every time that someone points out his jerkiness.
You've proven yourself a douchebag in this very post, by ignoring all of my valid points, and whining like a big diaper baby. If you don't want to be insulted, then stop insulting everyone here by implying that we are either huge bitches, or too stupid to understand a simple concept like the golden rule.
Get it? follow the golden rule. Don't insult us if you don't want to be insulted by us.
Wow. :)
I will leave it to those reading along as to who, if anyone, was being insulting. All I know is that I wasn't attempting to insult anyone. Just have a reasonable discussion about ethics and being fair with each other. Apparently some people took it personally. ::)
Not my fault, nor particularly my problem either.
Oh my god, if I were a cop, and you were my partner, I'd punch you in the face every single day. What a nightmare it must have been for your partners to have to listen to your self righteous bullshit all damn day.
Now THAT I can appreciate. {LOL}
In the end though they didn't stand a chance as I eventually became a boss and they had to listen to me. What a world, ey? }:D
Seriously, thanks. I enjoyed it and it was more amusing because you actually meant it. It can be amusing when people lose it. Especially over something as benign as posts in a forum. Feel free to provide me with a chuckle any time. I'll try to do the same for you. In the meantime relax. :)
We truly are different, you and I. I am sure you are very cool with that and I am as well so we both win. Diversity in all its splendor.
Thanks again. :)
princessjas
10-13-2009, 04:42 AM
We are still not on the same wave length. Are you talking about going without lunch for a week because you spent too much in the club or on shoes, because that isn't what I am talking about?
I keep saying I'm talking about situations when the person can tell they are, or have a very good potential for, causing REAL damage. Like the two scenarios I used where the old guy is playing with his last real money, or the guy going back multiple times to the ATM who may not make the rent this month because he's giving it to a dancer.
I am sure that Delilah's Den dancer, to usea real life example, didn't start out looking to be part of what fucked that guys life over and ended with the death of his wife, but at some point where he was going well over $100K in she had to have a moment where it occurred to her: "Hmmm. Good chance something bad is going to happen here. Do I continue to contribute to this or do I back the hell out."
If life presented you with a moment like that do you take the money?
I'm talking about having NO FOOD at all. None, nada, zip, zilch. Just water for over a week. Barely made rent too, and I had a friend who was actually evicted and kicked outta school for blowing her cash on other junk...but yanno who was responsible for that?? HER!!
The bartenders at the local club didn't come drag her out 5 nights a week. They didn't force her to tip lavishly and drink overpriced drinks. Likewise the saleslady at Belk didn't force her to buy an entire new wardrobe.
That being said, if a reg ever got that persistant I got scared and vanished for a bit. Too many stalkers to even count.
Also, I agree with the other girls. You are giving one example and when we poke holes in your theory, you replace it with something worse/different/more extreme. It's freakin aggravating. Like argueing with a small child. You can never win, even when you DO, because the aggressor (you) can't decide what their fucking point is (or maybe your point is so damn broad that no one could ever prove it true or false, thus providing you with endless hours of amusement and annoying the fuck out of the rest of us).
princessjas
10-13-2009, 04:50 AM
Hey man, I calls em like I sees em. If I am "losing" this argument, it's only because you keep changing rules.
GR: The sky is red.
Me: The sky is not red.
GR: I didn't say it was. I said the sky is blue.
Me: Why would you tell us that the sky is blue? Do you think we're all colorblind?
GR: The sky is red! Can't you read?! It's red just like a banana!
Me: You're a moron.
GR: HA! You called me a moron! I WIN!!!! WOOHOOO I AM SMARTER AND A MORE BETTER PERSON THAN ALL THE STRIPPERS IN THE WORLD!!! duh....drool....
It's retarded.
Too funny!! }:D I just spit Diet Coke out my nose! :rotfl:
xdamage
10-13-2009, 06:03 AM
Like I have said earlier it has become obvious to me that my approach to life is very different than some of the people present. Does it make anyone better or worse, again I repeat that is between the individual and their higher power to work out. Its not MY place.
There is a rather interesting story behind the now popular latin phrase, Caveat emptor. And it has strongly applied to vice entertainment, the tobacco industry, alcohol business, gambling, now strip clubs and likely will increasingly apply to brothels should that be legalized (or decriminalized).
On the flip side society has required many of these industries to disclose the risks of using their products, which might deter the extreme spenders, but still if you want to smoke 4 packs a day, enjoy; if you want to gamble your life savings away in a casino, enjoy; if you want to drink yourself into black out every night, enjoy. In no case does anyone stop a buyer from over doing it. The one exception is bars where bar owners are legal responsible if after serving, a patron hurts themselves or others (even then the laws vary and it remains debated if the patron should be self-responsible entirely).
Intermixed in all of these industries are sellers who are profiting, SOs and family who wish someone they knew was not using, a community at large that objects to the negative impacts on society, on occasion agreements leading to laws that require vice sellers disclose the risks in various forms, and so on.
I guess I'm curious then if you feel the SC is somehow uniquely in need of do unto-others corrections, or if you feel the same about all of these vice industries? Because extreme stories exist in all vice businesses including these: http://casinowatch.org/suicides/suicides.html
bem401
10-13-2009, 06:09 AM
I think it's sweet that you think the world should run businesses like we do our friendships though :-*
Once again, you are responding to statements or questions I never made as a way not to address the point I am making.
I am not talking about the guy (or your friend) who blows a load on a visit or two and then goes on with his life. People make bad decisions all the time, learn (sometimes expensively) from them, and move on. So don't bring up drinking and ATM's in your response.
I'm talking specifically about cases where a guy spends more than he can afford over time and digs himself into a hole over a period of time by spending on a particular girl and the dancer suspects this is the case. Does the dancer bear any responsibility for the outcome? What would you think of the dancer who might have done that to someone you cared for in real life? Please don't use the "its a strip club, he should've known it " explanation because I'm talking about a guy who doesn't "get it".
Even Tony Soprano asked the guy with the sporting goods store if he was sure he wanted to continue when he was already deep in the hole.
xdamage
10-13-2009, 06:33 AM
I'm talking specifically about cases where a guy spends more than he can afford over time and digs himself into a hole over a period of time by spending on a particular girl and the dancer suspects this is the case. Does the dancer bear any responsibility for the outcome? What would you think of the dancer who might have done that to someone you cared for in real life? Please don't use the "its a strip club, he should've known it " explanation because I'm talking about a guy who doesn't "get it".
The best way to ask is by way of analogy. Suppose someone we knew visited the Casino every weekend. Pretty soon they handed him a platinum card; knew him by name; comped him rooms and meals; even comped some gifts and sent a limo to pick him up; until he was broke. Does the casino bear any responsibility? And if it was someone you knew (a father or brother) would you be pissed at the Casino or your loved one for being stupid?
But I think all we can say is this. We really wouldn't expect the Casino owner to do any differently, or stop the buyer. That's the job of his family, friends, society. OTOH if a Casino owner's wife, daughter, brother, whoever blew a huge fortune, and he/she then got pissed at another Casino owner, then the rest of us would have the right to point out their inconsistency, at least not to feel sorry for them when they are also profiting from the same system.
But it still goes back to why we need to teach adults about personal responsibility. There is a risk too that we're raising a society of people who are increasingly likely to do what they want, and blame others when they don't like the outcome. There is a benefit too in laying it all on the buyer, letting people know, hey you as an adult are responsible for your choices. That also deters adults from over spending. It's that we're increasingly likely to blame bad behavior on others that also feeds into why people are increasingly likely to do stupid things and then say, "but he made me do it".
bem401
10-13-2009, 06:36 AM
I make no excuses for any ones behavior BEM.
Yoda, every time potentially bad behavior on the part of dancers comes up, you make excuses for them by saying the guy should have known better (and most guys do). I argue that the fact the guy should have known better (but didn't) is not an excuse for someone else's opportunistic behavior. I'm reminded of the line in Animal House where Flounder's car is totaled and Boone turns to him and says "you fucked up, you trusted us!!".
My point is that bleeding a delusional guy dry over time is not admirable behavior any more than the behavior of a pool or golf shark is. I know dancers who've done it and dancers who avoid doing it and I think more highly of those who don't.
Evan86
10-13-2009, 06:40 AM
while we're on the subject, I'm also sick of house moms and other dancers talking up other cities or clubs where supposedly all the money went, like "If you go out West you'll find gold and strike it rich!" I call BS, there's no hidden place where some dancers are secretly making thousands every night. The house mom last night was insistent that if I work NASCAR in some city coming up soon, I will make 6K a night. She has "seen it with her own eyes!" and she was dead serious, 6K. Come on now!
I work 4 miles from the track. When NASCAR is going on, I do see an increase, but nowhere near 6K---or even 2K.
Evan86
10-13-2009, 06:50 AM
^^^Maybe it's time to learn to count?
Honestly, most customers don't like being asked to stop and cough up the cash after each and every song.
I agree, because it snaps them out of the trance we put on them and back to reality.
Evan86
10-13-2009, 07:00 AM
So question...
We have a club near here, about an hour or so drive so not far, near Philly called Oasis. Finally went to check it out this year. Not bad at all. The private dances were fun. But I'm debating going back. Why? Well it seems like a pretty clean club, low key, in a nice part of town for Philly.
The deal is pretty simple, it is a big bar around two stages. The dancers are far away from customers when they dance on stage, but they come around after each dance to collect tips.
But of course the real business for the dancers is to sell private dances. Even this place still doesn't really feel like it's cool to just stop in and have a drink. The days of the stage show are seemingly gone for good, and private dances the real business.
I haven't been back this year as I've had far too many real life expenses to blow a lot on entertainment (a few large purchases, still a kid in college, a wedding, a vacay, etc).
Now I wouldn't mind stopping in, having a drink, and I do tip of course, but even so one can sense that the dancers are there primarily to sell LDs. I probably wouldn't buy many if I did so I haven't. Not this year. Not with the economy being shit and too much else going on.
So the question is, cool or not to stop in? Be honest. My gut feeling is they'd rather we not stop in if we are not buying dances, even though tip money is money, if guys aren't going to be buying LDs it's not cool? but I am curious what the real deal is.
To me, if a guy is tipping, he's welcome to be at my stage. I realize that not every customer can afford lap dances. What is NOT acceptable are the guys who sit and stare and don't tip or the dudes that may or may not tip but who want to waste our time and have us sit with them and ask us stupid questions like "What's your REAL name, what does your bf think about your dancing, how about I take you on a date?" etc. Come on in, have some drinks, enjoy yourself and tip. Just don't waste our time trying to date or fuck us.
xdamage
10-13-2009, 07:31 AM
To me, if a guy is tipping, he's welcome to be at my stage. I realize that not every customer can afford lap dances.
Well that is good to hear. By tipping I'd typically bring $100 or so for that plus some for drinks. It is not a huge amount of money (as one can fly through $100 in < 10-12 minutes buying dances at some clubs), but it is more then I'd spend if I saw/bought a movie for the evening, spent the day at an amusement park, went to dinner by myself, etc.
bem401
10-13-2009, 08:24 AM
The best way to ask is by way of analogy. Suppose someone we knew visited the Casino every weekend. Pretty soon they handed him a platinum card; knew him by name; comped him rooms and meals; even comped some gifts and sent a limo to pick him up; until he was broke. Does the casino bear any responsibility? And if it was someone you knew (a father or brother) would you be pissed at the Casino or your loved one for being stupid?
But I think all we can say is this. We really wouldn't expect the Casino owner to do any differently, or stop the buyer. That's the job of his family, friends, society. OTOH if a Casino owner's wife, daughter, brother, whoever blew a huge fortune, and he/she then got pissed at another Casino owner, then the rest of us would have the right to point out their inconsistency, at least not to feel sorry for them when they are also profiting from the same system.
But it still goes back to why we need to teach adults about personal responsibility. There is a risk too that we're raising a society of people who are increasingly likely to do what they want, and blame others when they don't like the outcome. There is a benefit too in laying it all on the buyer, letting people know, hey you as an adult are responsible for your choices. That also deters adults from over spending. It's that we're increasingly likely to blame bad behavior on others that also feeds into why people are increasingly likely to do stupid things and then say, "but he made me do it".
X, I'm not saying the guy isn't stupid. I'm questioning the ethics of knowingly profiting from his stupidity. Casinos certainly ruin more people financially but citing a bigger example of preying on people's weaknesses won't win you this argument IMO. People can dig themselves into a hole at casinos, SC's, or by using drugs, among other ways. Doesn't make any one of them less culpable than another.
Here's another analogy. This might be lost on some people since I'm going to use golf to demonstrate it. Let's say I'm a scratch golfer (0 hdcp) and you are a bogey-golfer (18 hdcp). You don't really know me but want to play me for money. I tell you I am a 10 hdcp and make sure I play just well enough to beat you. You get all excited about coming close to beating me so we play again and again and you keep coming close but I always manage to take your money. I'm winning this money because I've misled you into thinking you had a chance to win when you really never did. You were a pigeon and I sized you up from day one. Were you stupid to allow this to happen? Yes. Was I right to manipulate you in this manner for the simple reason that I could? No.
yoda57us
10-13-2009, 08:42 AM
I'm talking specifically about cases where a guy spends more than he can afford over time and digs himself into a hole over a period of time by spending on a particular girl and the dancer suspects this is the case. Does the dancer bear any responsibility for the outcome? What would you think of the dancer who might have done that to someone you cared for in real life? Please don't use the "its a strip club, he should've known it " explanation because I'm talking about a guy who doesn't "get it".
...and it is not the dancers job to care if the guy "gets it" or not. Sorry BEM but it is a strip club and the dancer earns a living by selling dances. You can't simply remove that part of it from the equation any more than GR can just go around "flipping" things to suit his argument.
Even Tony Soprano asked the guy with the sporting goods store if he was sure he wanted to continue when he was already deep in the hole.
Yes and in the end Tony took over the guy's business and ran it into bankruptcy. By the way, the guy with the sporting goods store was a life-long friend of Tony. One of my favorite episodes...
The moral to the story? Business is business.
Once again I am truly amazed at how folks who have never strapped on a pair of 7" heels or a g-string are so concerned about telling dancers how they should go about earning a living...
Damn I love this site!
xdamage
10-13-2009, 09:09 AM
X, I'm not saying the guy isn't stupid. I'm questioning the ethics of knowingly profiting from his stupidity. Casinos certainly ruin more people financially but citing a bigger example of preying on people's weaknesses won't win you this argument IMO. People can dig themselves into a hole at casinos, SC's, or by using drugs, among other ways. Doesn't make any one of them less culpable than another.
Here's another analogy. This might be lost on some people since I'm going to use golf to demonstrate it. Let's say I'm a scratch golfer (0 hdcp) and you are a bogey-golfer (18 hdcp). You don't really know me but want to play me for money. I tell you I am a 10 hdcp and make sure I play just well enough to beat you. You get all excited about coming close to beating me so we play again and again and you keep coming close but I always manage to take your money. I'm winning this money because I've misled you into thinking you had a chance to win when you really never did. You were a pigeon and I sized you up from day one. Were you stupid to allow this to happen? Yes. Was I right to manipulate you in this manner for the simple reason that I could? No.
bem,
The point of a bigger example was to reinforce your question, not to undermine it. Still...
Casinos are encouraging people to spend money, and they know that they can play longer, that the odds are in their favor, and some have argued that the have been duped, fooled into thinking they could win. Likewise the lottery, that the odds of winning are so astronomically low as to be laughable, but that the lottery promoters profit from promoting that you might win, and in fact some people do.
What you're basically asking though is this. If one's own mom ended up mentally ill, as a result was unkept, delusional, and wandered into a Casino, started spending money believing she would become rich... and if the game was rigged so that there was no way to win (or it was 1 in a trillion against it). If the Casino employees looked on her with disgust for being filthy, unkept, but even as they laughed behind her back, they encouraged her to play... and she seemed to having a good time playing believing she might win, so they kept telling her she is doing wonderful, keep playing, would we be pissed at the Casino owners for not intervening? For letting her play and encouraging her to play until she is broke?
If you ask everyone here are the answers you're likely to receive:
1.) The Casino owners feel that but she did have a good time playing! That was the entertainment. The promise of a long shot at wealth was just part of the fantasy of the place, but she actually did get her money's worth as far as they are concerned.
2.) Her family will be disgusted vs feeling self-guilty for not doing more to protect her.
3.) Society as a whole will be disgusted but not care enough to do anything about it, and maybe even laugh at the fact that crazy mom was stupid and deserved it, her family sick for letting her, the casino owners sharks.
And that is the way it goes... always... So what can we do but watch our own backs? Encourage people we care about to make smart choices. Be in favor of bills that promote greater disclosure of the negatives of vices while also encouraging laws that keep the government out of our business. And hope that on rare occasion, yes, people do make those choices where they put aside financial gain in favor of helping someone out who is mentally disturbed or very poor off. Great when it happens, but it is rare.
bem401
10-13-2009, 09:10 AM
...and it is not the dancers job to care if the guy "gets it" or not. Sorry BEM but it is a strip club and the dancer earns a living by selling dances. You can't simply remove that part of it from the equation any more than GR can just go around "flipping" things to suit his argument.
I see a difference between merely selling dances and preying on some guy because he's not thinking straight. Just as I see a difference between merely buying dances and assaulting a dancer because the opportunity is there. I think they are both wrong.
Yes and in the end Tony took over the guy's business and ran it into bankruptcy. By the way, the guy with the sporting goods store was a life-long friend of Tony. One of my favorite episodes...
The moral to the story? Business is business.
Well, I don't think Tony was the model of ethical behavior throughout the tenure of that series. And, if I remember correctly, he ( or at least his family, were conflicted over his actions.
Once again I am truly amazed at how folks who have never strapped on a pair of 7" heels or a g-string are so concerned about telling dancers how they should go about earning a living...
Damn I love this site!
What has strapping on 7" heels got to do with it? I've never done it and I'll give you the benefit of assuming you haven't either. I'm looking at the bigger issue: taking advantage of someone simply because you can. If a guy took advantage of a dancer in any way, shape, or form, you'd be all over his case( as well you should be).
princessjas
10-13-2009, 09:32 AM
I see a difference between merely selling dances and preying on some guy because he's not thinking straight. Just as I see a difference between merely buying dances and assaulting a dancer because the opportunity is there. I think they are both wrong.
Well, I don't think Tony was the model of ethical behavior throughout the tenure of that series. And, if I remember correctly, he ( or at least his family, were conflicted over his actions.
What has strapping on 7" heels got to do with it? I've never done it and I'll give you the benefit of assuming you haven't either. I'm looking at the bigger issue: taking advantage of someone simply because you can. If a guy took advantage of a dancer in any way, shape, or form, you'd be all over his case( as well you should be).
At the risk of repeating myself and every other fucking dancer on this site. We DO NOT open up a drunk asses wallet or overcharge or anything of the sort. We sell a service that he PLANNED on buying when he left the house SOBER. We do not give passed out drunk guys lapdances and then charge for them! If we gave lapdances to mega-drunk, slurring, drooling idiots, then maybe I'd see your point, but that just ISN'T hte case. Jeezus, are we supposed to be the moral police for EVERYONE!! They know what the fuck they are doing when they walk in the door!
Hell, there have been several times that guys were so damn drunk that they handed me a $100 instead of a $20 and ask me to get their drink, but I returned the change instead of taking a big-assed tip. (Yes, before someone asks this obnoxously drunk type pretends the dancers are waitresses and sometimes flags us down JUST to get a drink, and half the time only tips the bartender after we've spent 10 min at the bar getting their drink and bringing it to them.)
bem401
10-13-2009, 09:43 AM
At the risk of repeating myself and every other fucking dancer on this site. We DO NOT open up a drunk asses wallet or overcharge or anything of the sort. We sell a service that he PLANNED on buying when he left the house SOBER. We do not give passed out drunk guys lapdances and then charge for them! If we gave lapdances to mega-drunk, slurring, drooling idiots, then maybe I'd see your point, but that just ISN'T hte case. Jeezus, are we supposed to be the moral police for EVERYONE!! They know what the fuck they are doing when they walk in the door!
Hell, there have been several times that guys were so damn drunk that they handed me a $100 instead of a $20 and ask me to get their drink, but I returned the change instead of taking a big-assed tip. (Yes, before someone asks this obnoxously drunk type pretends the dancers are waitresses and sometimes flags us down JUST to get a drink, and half the time only tips the bartender after we've spent 10 min at the bar getting their drink and bringing it to them.)
Again, at the risk of repeating myself, I am not talking at all about the occasional drunk ass visitor like you are just passing through the club. I'm only talking about the delusional guys who come week after week and spend thousands upon thousands over time on one particular girl. I'm not talking about the guy who makes an ass of himself in one or two visits but the guy who eventually makes an ass of himself over many months. This thread morphed into one about people being taken advantage of and that happens in more than one way. Conveniently, you are only addressing one of those ways.
yoda57us
10-13-2009, 09:45 AM
I see a difference between merely selling dances and preying on some guy because he's not thinking straight. Just as I see a difference between merely buying dances and assaulting a dancer because the opportunity is there. I think they are both wrong.
Well, you call it "preying" I still call it making a living. I haven't been to a club for a few weeks but last time I checked customers where not being hit over the head, dragged into strip clubs and forced to spend money.
I'm not quite sure what "assaulting" a dancer has to do with any of this but that is often a problem I have with your analogies...
Well, I don't think Tony was the model of ethical behavior throughout the tenure of that series. And, if I remember correctly, he ( or at least his family, were conflicted over his actions.
No, the character was a criminal. But what he did is what his business is all about. His friend dug his own grave. Not only did Tony not invite him to the poker game where the idiot ran up his debt but Tony told him to stay away. Conflicted? It was a TV show BEM. Tony Soprano was not a real person.
Honestly, I'm puzzled by why you even used it as an example...
What has strapping on 7" heels got to do with it? I've never done it and I'll give you the benefit of assuming you haven't either. I'm looking at the bigger issue: taking advantage of someone simply because you can. If a guy took advantage of a dancer in any way, shape, or form, you'd be all over his case( as well you should be).
No, I don't wear woman's shoes BEM but I also don't go around telling dancers how to make a living.
Again, you are saying that a dancer's attempts to earn a living are "taking advantage" I say that they are not.
If a dancer stole money from a customer or tried in some way to hurt him or his family then I would say she has stepped over the line and, most likely, committed a criminal act in the process. Obviously I would feel the same way if a customer did something similar to a dancer. I don't see what either of these scenarios has to do with selling dances to a customer however.
princessjas
10-13-2009, 10:05 AM
Again, at the risk of repeating myself, I am not talking at all about the occasional drunk ass visitor like you are just passing through the club. I'm only talking about the delusional guys who come week after week and spend thousands upon thousands over time on one particular girl. I'm not talking about the guy who makes an ass of himself in one or two visits but the guy who eventually makes an ass of himself over many months. This thread morphed into one about people being taken advantage of and that happens in more than one way. Conveniently, you are only addressing one of those ways.
Okay, I have had SEVERAL regs who spent upwards of 100k a year (not all on me, but I got the bulk of it), NONE of these put their financial situation at risk though. One wore boots, jeans and a cowboy hat, so he didn't necessarily look affluent but was LOADED and spent what he damned well pleased. (I know this because he was a researcher and colleage at my college.) How do you suppose we tell the difference in these guys and your run of the mill idiot who is mortgaging his house to pay for dances? ::)
ETA - Don't even suggest asking, you know damn well, most broke asses claim to be millionaires in the club.
xdamage
10-13-2009, 10:14 AM
.. I'm only talking about the delusional guys who come week after week and spend thousands upon thousands over time on one particular girl. ..
The real problem again comes down to we want a simple set of rules to cover all cases. Real life though is just large swathes of gray, including what it mean to be delusional vs cognizant. The reality is that delusional is not a simple A or B matter, true or false, but even mentally ill people are in touch with reality to varying degrees, and even seemingly sane people can succumb to addictions and delusions.
In theory you'd hope that if someone ran into someone who was clearly mentally ill or delusional they'd not take advantage of them, because they absolutely would cry like babies if they were taken advantage of (or someone close). That is human nature.
But in reality it is not a black or white call, and whether anyone does or not depends on factors in their personality that by 20 or so are usually pretty solidly established.
From my own experience dancers are a lot like others in that if I plotted their behavior on a bell curve, most are about as honest as any of us; some few I felt where sociopaths; some few seemed that they might indeed have a bit of altruism in there, and I wonder how they've done... I certainly wish them well. But there is also only so much any dancer can do. If the club owners don't intervene when a guys is over spending, if their own families don't intervene, if all of us other club goers don't intervene, we can only point the finger so much at the dancers for not righting all wrongs that happen in SCs.
What I can tell you is that for as many years as I worked with sociopaths I learned that there really is no logical argument that will alter their perception. They have a true mental blind spot that is kind of like trying to explain to someone the difference between red and blue who has no eyes. A true sociopath simply does not generalize their own experiences unto others. They really do just see things in terms of "what is best for me" moment to moment and the rest of us are not equivalent. If you meet a dancer that is a sociopath, and they exist in all walks of life, run! But don't expect any mercy. They may never exactly break the law but clever sociopaths find ways to walk the fine line and often are quite profitable doing so. There is really nothing to be done then but avoid them.
JayATee
10-13-2009, 11:16 AM
Again, at the risk of repeating myself, I am not talking at all about the occasional drunk ass visitor like you are just passing through the club. I'm only talking about the delusional guys who come week after week and spend thousands upon thousands over time on one particular girl. I'm not talking about the guy who makes an ass of himself in one or two visits but the guy who eventually makes an ass of himself over many months. This thread morphed into one about people being taken advantage of and that happens in more than one way. Conveniently, you are only addressing one of those ways.
Why are they delusional? My regs know exactly what our relationship is. Doesn't stop me from making thousands off them. You seriously have a fucked up pov here. Perhaps you are one of the "delusional" ones?