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princessjas
10-11-2009, 07:42 AM
You are absolutely correct. When I hear VMurphy talk about martial art, it reminds me of the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Ladies,

It takes lots and lots of real life experience to make a good street fighter. Also, do not count on the fact that your being in a public place will definitely deter a determined enemy. So, screaming and all the theatrics prescribed by Mediority will mean nothing when you are truly facing a dangerous dude.

While day to day practice would obviously be ideal, a little knowledge saved my life.

Elvia
10-11-2009, 01:14 PM
It takes lots and lots of real life experience to make a good street fighter. Also, do not count on the fact that your being in a public place will definitely deter a determined enemy. So, screaming and all the theatrics prescribed by Mediority will mean nothing when you are truly facing a dangerous dude.

Wrong. You should definitely get loud. I had a stalker once. He was apprehended when another woman he was trying to abduct put up a fight and screamed her head off, which brought a nearby group of people running to help her, at which point he let go of her.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-11-2009, 03:53 PM
The time to getaway is when first contact is made; never get into his car.

Elvia
10-11-2009, 03:58 PM
^^^Well that's definitely excellent advice. Hence the fighting and yelling when someone does attempt to get you into a car.

vmurphy252
10-11-2009, 06:06 PM
You are absolutely correct. When I hear VMurphy talk about martial art, it reminds me of the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Ladies,

It takes lots and lots of real life experience to make a good street fighter. Also, do not count on the fact that your being in a public place will definitely deter a determined enemy. So, screaming and all the theatrics prescribed by Mediority will mean nothing when you are truly facing a dangerous dude.
Well, since you've shown yourself to be a fount of knowledge... you have no clue what my knowledge level is, so I would suggest you get off the topic before I make you cry.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-11-2009, 07:00 PM
Well, since you've shown yourself to be a fount of knowledge... you have no clue what my knowledge level is, so I would suggest you get off the topic before I make you cry.
I know, I know;

^Me too. Studied hard for 3 years, intermittently for 2, then moved. Haven't done anything for over 6 years... :(

vmurphy252
10-12-2009, 05:28 AM
Still doesn't tell you my level of knowledge; just tells you how long I spent gathering it.

vmurphy252
10-12-2009, 05:31 AM
You are absolutely correct. When I hear VMurphy talk about martial art, it reminds me of the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Ladies,

It takes lots and lots of real life experience to make a good street fighter. Also, do not count on the fact that your being in a public place will definitely deter a determined enemy. So, screaming and all the theatrics prescribed by Mediority will mean nothing when you are truly facing a dangerous dude.
Not to mention your ridiculous statement about getting out of having your face shoved in the toilet by raising your hand. If they are shoving you in the toilet, THEY ARE BEHIND YOU. Raising and crossing your arm IN FRONT OF YOU will accomplish nothing. Glad I haven't made your list of knowledgeable people...

Caprica6
10-12-2009, 01:13 PM
Wrong. You should definitely get loud. I had a stalker once. He was apprehended when another woman he was trying to abduct put up a fight and screamed her head off, which brought a nearby group of people running to help her, at which point he let go of her.

He wasn't saying that you SHOULD NOT get loud, just that getting loud is not always going to help you, so don't just rely on that alone. It's called the Bystander Effect and it's exactly what happened with the OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Elvia
10-12-2009, 02:37 PM
^^^ Maybe you're right. I know you're new here, so you don't realize this, but Cyril is notorious for talking out of ass here (as evidenced by his arguing with murphy about ocmbat techniques that make no sense) So it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. But Mayb I was too quick and misread what he was trying to say.

I will ad that I am really sick of this attitude that women have no chance of defending themselves unless they devote years and years to martial arts training, that a few guys seem to be perpetuating in this thread. Not only does is come off as really arrogant, but I think it's a pretty dangerous thing to give women the impression that that if they can't devote a significant amount of their lives in martial arts training, then any involvement in self defense classes is basically a waste of time.

mediocrity
10-12-2009, 04:00 PM
You are absolutely correct. When I hear VMurphy talk about martial art, it reminds me of the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Ladies,

It takes lots and lots of real life experience to make a good street fighter. Also, do not count on the fact that your being in a public place will definitely deter a determined enemy. So, screaming and all the theatrics prescribed by Mediority will mean nothing when you are truly facing a dangerous dude.

Is this the part where you think people give a rat's ass about your opinion?

Earl_the_Pearl
10-13-2009, 12:40 PM
Still doesn't tell you my level of knowledge; just tells you how long I spent gathering it.
If your art awards belts and you are athletic and can endure discomfort after three years of dedicated training you could have a black belt.

Of course you know by then that that is only the beginning.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-13-2009, 01:00 PM
I will ad that I am really sick of this attitude that women have no chance of defending themselves unless they devote years and years to martial arts training, that a few guys seem to be perpetuating in this thread. Not only does is come off as really arrogant, but I think it's a pretty dangerous thing to give women the impression that that if they can't devote a significant amount of their lives in martial arts training, then any involvement in self defense classes is basically a waste of time.
No PERSON should think a weekend course will make them a cage fighter. A weekend course should stress awareness of and avoiding compromising situations.

The following are illegal in cage fighting and should be the first thing one should use on the street if one cannot distance one's self from the attacker. After using one or more of these one should distance one's self from the attacker as soon as possible.

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. (see Gouging)
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head. (see Rabbit punch)
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow. (see Elbow (strike))
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.

Better yet is getting a permit to carry a gun; a gun trumps any and all empty hand fighting.

vmurphy252
10-13-2009, 02:19 PM
If your art awards belts and you are athletic and can endure discomfort after three years of dedicated training you could have a black belt.

Of course you know by then that that is only the beginning.
My school did not award belts and after 3 years of training I was JUST getting into the intermediate belts because I went to a real school, not a belt factory.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-13-2009, 04:50 PM
My school did not award belts and after 3 years of training I was JUST getting into the intermediate belts because I went to a real school, not a belt factory.
"My school did not award belts and after 3 years of training I was JUST getting into the intermediate belts" :thinking:


I would not call WTF TKD a belt factory but they do have a lot of belts and tests as it is expensive to be an Olympic sport. As long as one learned the forms necessary and could give a good showing in Olympic style sparring against Black belts a three year black belt was possible, not common but possible.


This is a red belt testing for black.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/WTF_Taekwondo_1.jpg

One could fight their way up to 3ed degree as most Olympians do but after that it becomes more of what one has done for the art. If one shows apprehension in sparring a black belt is still possible by showing a dedication to the art, knowing all the forms and being able to break boards. Sparring is still mandatory but all one need do is not run away. This will take six or more years though.


WTF TKD is a sport martial art and no kicks are permitted below the waist. The first thing students are told if in a street fight NEVER attempt to kick above the waist.

As with all street fighting the best fight is the one avoided.

Caprica6
10-14-2009, 09:44 PM
I would never join (or stick with, since technically I have joined one) a martial art that teaches you to do something differently in a real life situation than what they do in class. Especially one like TKD that is typically low-contact. I joined to learn self defense, not to dance around in circles looking cool. It's not all about the fancy footwork, the high kicks, the impractical jumps and flips and bells and whistles, it's about learning to fight real people with real consequences.

Knowing even the basic level of self defense is great. Something is better than nothing, and probably a good majority of the girls here know this first hand. Training regularly can't hurt tho, so if you can make time for it, it is a very worthy investment.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-15-2009, 12:54 AM
I would never join (or stick with, since technically I have joined one) a martial art that teaches you to do something differently in a real life situation than what they do in class. Especially one like TKD that is typically low-contact. I joined to learn self defense, not to dance around in circles looking cool. It's not all about the fancy footwork, the high kicks, the impractical jumps and flips and bells and whistles, it's about learning to fight real people with real consequences.

Knowing even the basic level of self defense is great. Something is better than nothing, and probably a good majority of the girls here know this first hand. Training regularly can't hurt tho, so if you can make time for it, it is a very worthy investment.

With all due respect I must say you are totally ignorant of self defiance in a street situation.

vmurphy252
10-15-2009, 06:07 AM
^You ARE the weakest link... goodbye.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-15-2009, 06:54 AM
^You ARE the weakest link... goodbye.
How does this work for you? Nice guys finish last-- Leo “the Lip” Durocher.

vmurphy252
10-15-2009, 07:21 AM
^Actually, wasn't doing anything to be nice. You just keep making claims against me and other people as if you are the fount of all knowledge with nothing demonstrating that you are that fount... spouting something about TKD and then claiming someone else doesn't understand self "defiance" when she mentions nothing that you can make a judgment from. Just seems that there's some chlorine in your gene pool...

Earl_the_Pearl
10-15-2009, 07:53 AM
^Actually, wasn't doing anything to be nice. You just keep making claims against me and other people as if you are the fount of all knowledge with nothing demonstrating that you are that fount... spouting something about TKD and then claiming someone else doesn't understand self "defiance" when she mentions nothing that you can make a judgment from. Just seems that there's some chlorine in your gene pool...
This is the fact Jack; no art can train full contact in these techniques as they would maim 1/2 the students in every class. I concede to pink when it comes to dancing; I concede to no one when it comes to sport fighting. When it comes to street fighting there is no standard. In your many years of training did you ever practice any of the following techniques full contact?

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. (see Gouging)
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head. (see Rabbit punch)
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow. (see Elbow (strike))
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.

vmurphy252
10-15-2009, 08:01 AM
All of them with training contact. Of course not full contact. As you say, no art can train devastating techniques at full contact. So either we accept that the training is training and will hopefully prepare us for a real life encounter if required, or we had fun training. I think the training prepares, but if you disagree, so be it.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-15-2009, 08:36 AM
All of them with training contact. Of course not full contact. As you say, no art can train devastating techniques at full contact. So either we accept that the training is training and will hopefully prepare us for a real life encounter if required, or we had fun training. I think the training prepares, but if you disagree, so be it.
I agree 100%. The forms (kata) train one in the deadly techniques. The student is not made aware of what he is learning until he receives his black belt. That is an ancient tradition as one should not have the knowledge until one has the restraint.

All traditional martial arts teach the best fight is the avoided fight; when two tigers fight one will be maimed and one will be killed.

Evan86
10-15-2009, 08:42 AM
a guy once followed me from work to chipotle. i saw him from the storefront window, looking into my car window, and almost shit my pants. i started freaking out inside of chipotle (i was standing in line) and NO ONE looked up. the guy came inside and asked me where we were going after this. i burst into tears, i completely panicked and forgot how to talk, i just stood there crying and after sixty seconds of that, i managed to say "leave me alone." he left. no one in the restaurant said anything or looked in my direction. i got my chips and guacamole and went home.

i do not have a concealed/carry weapon, and even if i did, you cannot take a gun into a strip club. so, though a gun is helpful if you're a good shot, i don't think it is helpful in most situations.

i do think, considering how many dancers have been sexually assaulted at some time in their lives, that self-defense training should be provided by the state. since the state won't give a shit if someone does, in fact, assault you, sexually or otherwise. it's the least they could do.

i think one of the biggest precautions a dancer could take is not to drink at work, especially if you are driving. that way, if something does happen, you won't have to deal with the condescending "well how much did you have to drink that night" sentiment from the police or anyone else.

living in well-lit area, having a healthy dose of paranoia (if you think you are being followed, call a friend, drive to a police station, etc), taking a self-defense class, knowing how to disarm a weapon, limiting the errands you run after work (fill up your gas tank before work), whatever you have to do to feel safe. i don't know if there's a big difference between what precautions dancers should take and things that every women should do.

My hubby picks me up usually. If he doesn't, I live in a guarded/gated community and go straight home after work. In the club, if bouncers are scarce, I have used my shoes. A guy tried choking me once during a dance. I dug into his crotch with my 7" heel and made him cry.

vmurphy252
10-15-2009, 08:51 AM
I agree 100%. The forms (kata) train one in the deadly techniques. The student is not made aware of what he is learning until he receives his black belt. That is an ancient tradition as one should not have the knowledge until one has the restraint.

All traditional martial arts teach the best fight is the avoided fight; when two tigers fight one will be maimed and one will be killed.
I think we are actually in agreement on something for once. My school placed a huge emphasis on kata and bunkai (analysis of what the kata represents in actual technique). And of course avoiding a fight is the best option; the idea is to be prepared when someone else does not choose to avoid the fight...

princessjas
10-15-2009, 08:51 AM
My hubby picks me up usually. If he doesn't, I live in a guarded/gated community and go straight home after work. In the club, if bouncers are scarce, I have used my shoes. A guy tried choking me once during a dance. I dug into his crotch with my 7" heel and made him cry.

I can't believe some asshole CHOKED you!! He really should be in prison for that shit! (Sadly, I've heard of it happening to a few girls, and the clubs never even call the cops.)

I have also used my shoes few times. A stiletto to the nuggets usually get the assholes back in line pretty quick.

vmurphy252
10-15-2009, 08:56 AM
^That is fucked up (the choking). Just be careful with focusing to much on the balls; while it will hurt no matter what, if a guy is focused or has adrenaline flowing, it may not stop him. It is better, if possible, to do something that will physically incapacitate him (a sprained/broken knee won't ALLOW you to walk regardless of if you can get past the pain). A nose shot is also good because the body makes the eyes water in reflex so vision is automatically blurred.

Earl_the_Pearl
10-15-2009, 09:15 AM
I can't believe some asshole CHOKED you!! He really should be in prison for that shit! (Sadly, I've heard of it happening to a few girls, and the clubs never even call the cops.)
This is why Newark forbids private dances.

Evan86
10-15-2009, 09:40 AM
I can't believe some asshole CHOKED you!! He really should be in prison for that shit! (Sadly, I've heard of it happening to a few girls, and the clubs never even call the cops.)

I have also used my shoes few times. A stiletto to the nuggets usually get the assholes back in line pretty quick.

I never saw him again after that ITC, but I worry about people like these being on the streets and hurting/killing someone else. It should have been reported, but the club didn't want the cops there, and I just let it go, bc they threw him out. It definitely freaked me out bad.