View Full Version : Does it honestly matter..
^^^^ Is there any way you can NOT speak in riddles? It gets annoying after a while
xdamage
11-04-2009, 06:27 AM
... I have never been given so many dirty looks.. eventually some of them became more vocal. "You went to one of "those" places?" "I hope you didn't ACTUALLY enjoy it there" soon the insecurities kicked in.. "I just don't understand why men go to strip clubs! Can't they get a girl without paying?" "Only God can help those girls now. Obviously their parents couldn't do anything" ...
Sure, women commonly have strong feelings about selling sex (even just sexual behaviors) of other men and other women.
The exact reasons are debatable but I have what I think is a very simple reason. I simply ask, "what are they getting out of it?"
When I ask that I think it may just be it as simple as it is not in their own best interest for other women to sell sex or sexual behaviors.
For one it ups the bar regarding what males expect (in terms of dress, behavior, physical form, sexual activity). What do other women that can't/don't want to compete get out of that? Nothing. All it likely does is have men further thinking they are not good enough as is, which has many ripple down effects in how they are treated by others, and their value. Perhaps even more so as their bodies age, how does it help them to have men so focused on women who are statistically younger, or have to work-out like crazy people to keep the toned look?
Also it changes the value of sex for them in terms of long term relationships. What could be something rare, valuable, hard to get, making it something valuable with which to find and keep a good mate for life, into an object, something with a price tag anyone can buy or sell. Women sometimes also object to other women having casual sex perhaps for the same reason, it lowers the expectations of males and the value of sex for the way they want to compete.
About the only way they can cope with that then is to promote the feelings that what other women are doing with their bodies is whoreish, and that men are wicked losers for using the services. etc.
When you look at it like that, as self-interest, there is no need for conspiratorial explanations at all. Their reaction simply comes down to sex workers impact them indirectly via changing the rules of the game. Most people are competitive with others without even being aware. We all do it, jockey to increase our value relative to others, jockey to promote our own social strategy to get ahead, including trying to lower the value of others relative to us.
Life would be easier if everyone was more open minded about things they know nothing about.
We humans would have to be very different. I've read one interesting book lately in which the author theorizes that gossip was a key factor in what allowed us to evolve bigger brains. Us people keeping track of who is doing what, keeping track of others position and relationship to us, seems to be deeply seated in every culture they study. It also requires bigger brains to track it all and analyze it all, predict what others will do next, etc, in between living. Anyway...
And the story about the genie and three wishes applies. If we got our wish for people to be different in such a fundamental way, it would surely come with dramatic and un-forseen side-effects that we'd be unhappy about for yet different reasons. There is no winning, just a constant on-going competition for what works best given the current conditions.
NickT
11-04-2009, 10:12 AM
That being said, why would it matter what others opinions were? Who would find out what your gf did for a living? Most dancers don't exactly go around announcing it to strangers because we are familiar with the prejudices. Unless you are only dating a dancer for bragging rights it shouldn't be important. After all, most of us aren't classless idiots who are going to walk into your mom's house and start taking our clothes off and spinning around the Newelpost. ::)
That's the crux of the issue. It matters because the guy will be faced with two scenarios: 1) Trying to keep it a secret from everyone or 2) Dealing with the snide comments. If the woman had a more typical job, he wouldn't have to be put in that position. At some point someone is going to ask him what she does for a living.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-04-2009, 10:19 AM
Oh Earl, please seek therapy! Find yourself a nice older lesbian psychiatrist. I recommend a mood stabilizer, it will help the rage and psychosis.
If any of what you say is true that would be a very cruel statement.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-04-2009, 10:38 AM
^^^^ Is there any way you can NOT speak in riddles? It gets annoying after a while
I'll explain it went like this.
LOL, you in a hurry Earl? Is someone looking for you?
No one has to look for me I'm in the book and have been at the same address for 26 years; except for a brief 1 1/2 year lesbian family court enforced absence.
I have lived in the same house for 26 years and I'm listed in the phone book. So if anyone is looking for me they can easily find me.
I was removed from my house for 1 1/2 years by order of a judge. It was when I was going through my divorce and I did not want to leave my house so my ex's lawyer told her to go to the police and say she was afraid of me; she was in fact not afraid as she came and went as she pleased spending days away from our marital home. They took her to a judge and the judge decided if I was removed he would have no problems. If she was removed or if we both were permitted to stay he risked the wrath of feminist groups. So he sent three armed men to my home and I was given 15 minutes to get what I could and leave. I did not see the inside of my house for 1 1/2 years.
My ex is doing fine she took the $200,000 settlement money and bought a house with her Dentist husband. I’m sure the $100,000 I sent her over the next 13 years helped pay the mortgage.
See this is long and boring the "riddle" was short and sweet.
Laurisa
11-04-2009, 11:08 AM
I don't think that you can answer whether or not a dancer's profession matters in a relationship without being given specifics. Every situation is different, every dancer is different, and every man (or woman) considering dating a dancer is different. I'll say this much; the idea of dancing has worked for my relationship so far, but I have NO idea how he'll react once I actually walk out the door night after night.
The hours are tough, especially since we'll be working opposite shifts, and that alone can be difficult on a relationship. I agree that some people cannot differentiate sexual acts from emotions, so they cannot understand that dancers do not consider dancing cheating. If you start bringing home good money, they might start to think about what you did to make all that money. If you make a lot more than normal one night because the going was good, they might think you did extras even if you didn't. There is a lot of room left for the mind to wander when your boyfriend or husband is at home and you're at work.
I think that it all boils down to honesty and trust. If you are a clean dancer, then you have nothing to hide. If you are honest about what you do from day one (or before you start) then you will never have to "explain" any cash you make or why you are dressed a certain way. In the end, though, you can be as honest and as clean as you want but that doesn't mean your man won't let his mind run wild and cause argument after argument. Repeated arguments about work are not good for any relationship, so you really need a strong minded man to make it through your dancing career together. Above all, always be prepared to have it end because that is life.
princessjas
11-04-2009, 11:41 AM
You do know what a "white knight" is very similar to a "save a Ho". Where do you meet these "white knights"? If not in the club they are not really "white knights" as they don't know you are a dancer and have no reason to save you.
Considering all the shit being said on here about women loving assholes lately, I assumed by "white knight" you meant any nice guy. You seem to slam any man who acts like a halfway decent human being, whether he is trying to "rescue" us or not sooo. :P
princessjas
11-04-2009, 11:45 AM
That's the crux of the issue. It matters because the guy will be faced with two scenarios: 1) Trying to keep it a secret from everyone or 2) Dealing with the snide comments. If the woman had a more typical job, he wouldn't have to be put in that position. At some point someone is going to ask him what she does for a living.
You don't think most of us have day-jobs or cover stories?? Many of us don't tell everyone that we are dancers, and we have to have convincing stories for our parents and other relatives. ;)
minnow
11-04-2009, 12:04 PM
if a girl is a dancer when you are choosing to date her?
And no, I don't mean OTC "dating" (Earl.). I mean like you go out to a regular place- a bar you like, the grocery store, whatever- and you meet a girl. You take her out, she tells you she's a dancer. But other than that, she is eloquent, well-spoken, educated or paying for education... just a normal chick.
Checking in late here- for initial date, the answer is, no, doesn't matter (that much). I get the feeling med. is interested in the dating relationship developing/evolving beyond the 1st date. Namely the real ??/issues being:
1) On one hand, will the "extra attention/motivation on subsequent dates be on superficial level because one is a dancer, or will it be on a genuine personal level?
2) Or on the other hand, will guy date you, but wouldn't dream of taking you home to meet his parents because you're a dancer?
3). What of jealousy "issues" ( of SO or spouse being groped/ogled by a bunch of strangers every night).
I don't have any pat anwers for above, except to say that #3 comes into play to varying degrees. To illustrate: How many dancers would lend their spray perfume/deodorant to other dancers? How about their G-string? So it goes with deeply personal relationships.
Does it matter?
No one has to look for me I'm in the book and have been at the same address for 26 years; except for a brief 1 1/2 year lesbian family court enforced absence.
:D Hey, Earl, was that your time slip for a 100 mph QM in "UAW Thread" by ES?? I "lmao" at the drivers initials of "PC".
Earl_the_Pearl
11-04-2009, 12:29 PM
:D Hey, Earl, was that your time slip for a 100 mph QM in "UAW Thread" by ES?? I "lmao" at the drivers initials of "PC".
I would like to have his money.
http://assets.pcrichard.com/assets/images/header_nav/v4/pcr_header_logo.gif
xdamage
11-04-2009, 02:17 PM
I don't think that you can answer whether or not a dancer's profession matters in a relationship without being given specifics. Every situation is different, every dancer is different, and every man (or woman) considering dating a dancer is different.
This is something I completely agree with. Different people are going to weigh it differently, but it remains true that there are patterns to how people feel in large groups even if there are exceptions.
Once sexuality is involved people commonly have strong feelings. Those feelings are not right or wrong, they just are.
There are thousands of forms of entertainment that illicit nothing but neutral feelings or envy for the entertainers, forms that nobody would be ashamed to admit. And they don't involve sex.
How people feel about stripping and being a customer is not a conspiracy. It's that we people have deep feelings about sex, about parts of our body (i.e., our groins), about who touches those parts and under what circumstances, about how relationships with and without (our friends and family and coworkers) sex are dramatically different.
Really the question could be, does working in an industry providing sexual forms of entertainment matter? I think there is simply no way to avoid facing that it does matter to people. If it really didn't matter we people (and our societies) would be very different. And personally I really think if we really didn't care, it wouldn't be profitable; that we'd more likely behave like primates and just all have a lot of sex whenever we felt like it multiple times a day. Might be interesting, but who would go to a SC if people were just hooking up to get off without thinking, and didn't place any special meanings on sex?
Bob_Loblaw
11-04-2009, 02:57 PM
Wow, it's been a while since we've had a thread generate so much discussion on blue.
I've finally caught up on the discussion and it seems most points and perspectives have already been covered. My thoughts on the subject will probably sound somewhat plagiarized.
Does it honestly matter if a girl is a dancer when you are choosing to date her?
It depends. Personally, I'm at a point in my life where I'm not interested in casual dating anymore. There needs to be long term potential with any girl I'd be interested in dating regardless of profession.
It would be important for me to know what she's trying to achieve through dancing. Is she paying for school (and what plans does she have to make use of her degree)? Is she saving money to be able to start a business? Is she working for early retirement? Is her focus to gain experience that can be applied in other industries? Does she have a day job, "secret identity" that can be put on a resume to maximize her employment opportunities after her dancing career? Before some of you label me as a guy who would pressure a girl to quit dancing, let me say that's not the case. I have no interest whatsoever in changing anybody. IMO, doing so only leaves you with a pretender who eventually will become bitter towards you for cheating her out of living her life as who she really is. It's just that dancing careers have a limited shelf life and I would need to know she has some career ambitions for life after dancing.
As some others have mentioned, time could be an issue depending on both parties' work schedules. Even more so if travel is involved. But when it potentially is at its greatest is during family gatherings. Especially if both are trying to keep her dancing job secret, it becomes increasingly more difficult to provide excuses for her inability to attend these functions due to conflicts in schedules. Constantly having to lie to family could be wearing.
On the other hand, I would not be concerned with the opinions of co-workers should word get out. I go to work to do my job, not make friends. My personal life is none of their business. I also would not be concerned with the opinions of my friends. If it was something I really wanted to pursue for the right reasons, true friends would be supportive of my choice.
A girl's lifestyle would weigh most heavily on my decision to date her or not. I'm not interested in a constant party girl, drug user (although I could tolerate a social weed smoker), etc. I'm not interested in someone who is materialistic. It's not just stripper stereotypes as this is the case whether she's a dancer, doctor, teacher, bus driver... whatever. However, I would be concerned if she was the type of girl who has to drink in order to be able to work.
With regards to the sexual nature of the job, I think there also needs to be more consideration given to what region we live in. Where I live, clubs are primarily stage dance-centric. Private dances generally are air dances or light one-way contact. Because I'm familiar with what an average dance entails in this area, I would have no issues with the dancing aspect of a dancer's job. I have also visited clubs in other regions where contact levels are much higher. Based on my own experiences, I would still be comfortable with the contact involved as dances were still provided in a safe, controlled environment. Any time you date someone new, you take a leap of faith. IMO, any relationship with an ounce of distrust is doomed to fail. Until proven otherwise, I would trust she stays within club rules and does not provide OTC dating while also taking reasonable safeguards in protecting her privacy.
Saying all that, do I find any special appeal in dating a dancer? Not at all. Most people would view guys who were only interested in dating women mechanics or women mail carriers strange. I find guys with the narrow focus of dating strippers odd as well. I'm only concerned with dating someone who is mutually compatible. If she happened to be a dancer, so be it.
Laurisa
11-04-2009, 03:09 PM
A girl's lifestyle would weigh most heavily on my decision to date her or not. I'm not interested in a constant party girl, drug user (although I could tolerate a social weed smoker)
While I can see validity in your post, and I do appreciate you posting somewhat of a personal ad up for us to read, I have to ask--what is a 'social' weed smoker? ::)
Do people really just gather to smoke a bowl on the weekends? I've found that most people that smoke weed generally do it by themselves or in small groups during the week as well. I like to think that smoking weed is a more socially acceptable independent activity than drinking is, and I have never heard of people waiting until the weekend or a special occasion to light up.
Am I not understanding?
princessjas
11-04-2009, 03:13 PM
^^Hmm, I know someone who generally only smokes once a week with friends. It's after a weekly get together thing and it seems to be pretty rare otherwise. :shrug:
Laurisa
11-04-2009, 03:14 PM
I guess most of the people I know do it so often that it seems like they have a substance abuse problem. I mean, some of them function just fine during the day, but at night it's like some sort of monster got let out. O_o
Bob_Loblaw
11-04-2009, 03:18 PM
what is a 'social' weed smoker?
I meant it kinda like social drinking except smoking though you're correct in that I've misused the term. Just smoking on occasion as opposed to constantly feeling the need to be high every day and at all times.
Laurisa
11-04-2009, 03:35 PM
I meant it kinda like social drinking except smoking though you're correct in that I've misused the term. Just smoking on occasion as opposed to constantly feeling the need to be high every day and at all times.
Ah, alright. Sorry, I'm a bit bitchy/touchy about weed, other drugs, and alcohol this week. My mom got arrested for a DUI on halloween with my 22-month-old brother in the car. She blew a .314 at 11 AM. >:(
I was so angry, but luckily they made her sit in jail overnight. She didn't get out for like 26 hours or so. I still don't think that was punishment enough.
I understand what you are saying, and I agree. Smoking weed occasionally is far more acceptable than people that are constantly out getting high acting like idiots.
bem401
11-04-2009, 03:38 PM
Ah, alright. Sorry, I'm a bit bitchy/touchy about weed, other drugs, and alcohol this week. My mom got arrested for a DUI on halloween with my 22-month-old brother in the car. She blew a .314 at 11 AM. >:(
I was so angry, but luckily they made her sit in jail overnight. She didn't get out for like 26 hours or so. I still don't think that was punishment enough.
I understand what you are saying, and I agree. Smoking weed occasionally is far more acceptable than people that are constantly out getting high acting like idiots.
.314? OMG! That is nearly lethal. Almost 4X the limit.
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-04-2009, 03:48 PM
I take a single toke of weed about one or two days a week, to relax. Sometimes I go weeks or months or years without touching it. I'm not an addict. But I used to be, many, many moons ago...smoked it daily to the detriment of my life. It can go both ways, easily.
Laurisa
11-04-2009, 03:54 PM
.314? OMG! That is nearly lethal. Almost 4X the limit.
She drinks about a fifth a day and has a VERY high alcohol tolerance. She drove over an hour before she even got stopped. :(
She didn't even request medical attention.
xdamage
11-07-2009, 09:05 AM
I guess if it was me I'd welcome the stigma on some level because it keeps the competition out. It's like my job is stressful, but if it wasn't why would they pay me what they pay me? If anyone can/would do it all that would happen is I'd make less money, a different kind of stress.
I mean can understand not wanting the stress and the pay, and venting is cool, but still I remind myself I'm lucky to have a job that not everyone wants or can-do. Yet it is rare for people to say such things and it makes me assume they are unaware of the implications if the stigma changed.
Here is a made up story to illustrate a vice seller's quandary -
So there was once a guy who realized he could make a lot of money if he could open a Casino. Problem is the society as a whole frowned strongly on gambling; decided it should be illegal, but somehow he manages to swing an exception and as a result he is rolling in the dough. Seems there is a lot of pent up demand for a Casino.
Soon enough he is wealthy, and can afford to live well, but the problem is he can't tell anyone what he does because everywhere he goes people sneer at him for selling sin, either refusing to deal with him at all, or subtly treat him like the slime of humanity.
So he thinks to himself, wouldn't it be great if I could have my money without all this stigma? He goes on a campaign to alter people's opinions, and it works! Except as a result soon there are a few other Casinos open as well, laws relaxed, but okay, at first all seems well. With the decreased stigma more people come out to spend money, and everyone is happy, for a while...
But in time it changes. In part because his own Casino is showing its age, and the newer younger Casinos are hip, cool, shiny and fresh, in newer sections of town. His attempts to rejuvenate his own Casino help somewhat, but it's never the same as a brand new Casino. Plus worse still, those other Casinos have been competing, offering more for less, offering Comps! And then it seems the amount consumers will spend on gambling isn't infinite. It levels off, now to be split among many competitors, always willing to do something more for less. Consumers grow more budget conscious, looking for better deals.
Still he makes a tidy living off his Casino, but the large influx of competitors in the face of decreased stigma and relaxed laws was unexpected. And then it gets worse...
His savings he finds gone one day. Funds drained by his wife, daughters, mother, who have been burning through the money rapidly on gambling themselves. Seems the other Casino owners have been encouraging them to spend money too.
They can't even fathom his objection to spending the money, even a lot of it, given that he spent years promoting the idea that gambling is stigma-free fun, and encouraging everyone else to spend wildly, talking about how he hates cheap people who waste floor space playing penny slots. So why should he be upset they spent family money on gambling themselves? It's a perfectly legal and normal form of entertainment, not their fault that it remains an expensive one, and they didn't want to be cheap like those people he despises. Hey those other Casino employees encouraged them to gamble. After all they might win a jackpot.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-14-2009, 09:34 AM
Oh yes it does matter because even if he doesn't care about her job she will not be able to not act like a dancer. She will look at him as her biggest spending regular and will not like him doing as she does. She will lie about what she does in and out of the club as she will be a borne again virgin.
She will check his phone to see who he is driving and threaten and harass them much like a dancer does in the club to protect her best regular. All of the time saying she only does air dances so he should not touch other dancers’ ether.
He may believe her even though it doesn’t matter as long as he isn’t played for a fool. One day he will be in a chat group where men talk about New Jersey strip clubs and will find out one of her dancer friends is a BIG extra girl during private dances when she is drunk. He will get suspicious and keep a closer eye on her. She will tell him she is going out with some girl friends to a restaurant one of the friends is the one that does extras. She doesn't remember the name of the restraint. He will ask to go too but will be told it is a girl’s only outing.
When he calls her cell a man will answer, WTF, he will ask for her and get hung up on. Now having done some research he will call the cell of the guy that put together the private party. Surprise the same guy answers. Now what really pisses him off is being played for a fool and lied to especially because she keeps close tabs on him. Now even though she got caught she will lie no matter what facts are presented; she will take the lie to her grave still trying to play him for a fool but no problem as he no longer is her roommate or pays the bills.
It is a small world; his son’s girl friend gets a new job working at a restaurant and gets a 25% discount so they all should go to dinner. Surprise, surprise the manager of the restaurant is the guy who answered the phones at the private party. Wouldn’t it have been funny if his son, his son’s girl friend, his dancer friend and he went there? So yes it does matter as one will probably run into many men who did things to his SO and he will be the only one that does not know what or when.
The former dancer’s roommate told his son’s girl friend if her manager ever gave her a hard time she should tell him and he will give her the names of some people she should ask him if he knows or if his wife knows, funny joke on party man.
Funny joke on the dancer as it is now way past the first of the month.
Phil-W
11-14-2009, 11:20 AM
^^^^
Earl - that sounds a bit autobiographical.....
Phil.
princessjas
11-15-2009, 11:13 AM
^^Earl is extremely bitter because he has really poor tastes in women. Apparently if one dancer was a cheater and an idiot, we all are. *rolls eyes* Does this mean I should assume every guy that goes to clubs is the same as Earl? I don't think so.
Seems to me like if he was going to date a liar and a cheat at least he could have found one that wasn't possesive as hell to top it off. And NO, all dancers aren't like that. I'm never bothered by hearing about trips to the club, I think it's pretty hot actually, and have no desire to keep tabs on anyone, or have a SD or anything close. To be honest, I think it'd be fairly hard to find a dancer who IS that possesive....Earl must have looked long and hard to find a gem like her. Hopefully she was at least hot as hell, but with the clubs he frequents, I seriously doubt that.
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-15-2009, 11:20 AM
Crazy drama bitches like the one Earl had do not have to be strippers. I have some friends, a couple, that do shit like that. Bless their hearts, I really like them, but they are bad together, always checking up on each other's texts and emails, hanging out with other men and women, flirting like crazy, and not respecting one another. She has never ever even considered being a stripper.
Although my story was anecdotal, I am sure we all can think of a couple we have known that was similar...and NOT involved in the SC game.
Phil-W
11-15-2009, 11:55 AM
I think there's a clue in Earl's posts. Once or twice he's referred to himself as a driver.
She will check his phone to see who he is driving and threaten and harass them much like a dancer does in the club to protect her best regular.
Driver to me in the SC sense means a guy who drives dancers to/from work. And motives can vary:
1) Friend or SO who drives the girl because they have some form of OTC relationship - normally for free
2) Guy who drives the girl in return for petrol money or free dances - a way of offsetting his clubbing costs.
3) Guy who drives girls from a 'professional' motive - i.e. earns a second income from what he charges
4) Guy who's being "played" by a dancer - i.e. gives free lifts in return for anticipated friendship/favors that are never delivered.
If Earl has been "played" that might explain some of the bitterness.
Phil.
JoeUnCool
11-15-2009, 01:36 PM
If Earl has been "played" that might explain some of the bitterness.
Phil.
Interesting thought. I've been played as well, so I know the feeling. I also know that not everyone is evil.
xdamage
11-15-2009, 02:27 PM
I think if someone is looking to cheat they will find a way, even create strife in their relationship to justify it.
And there are very few public forums/situations where one can openly brag about cheating so mostly people who do it just don't admit it much. But...
I actually do think it's fine to be pissed off is one is the cheated on and hurt, even bitter about it, just ... how do I put this... if someone is going through that, working out in public just cannot work, just like working out any victim issues in public cannot work.
There are groups focused just on that and that's great, it does suck, but it is tempting to take it out on an entire 50% of the population (the other sex) which is serious overkill. Fine for recovery, in the long term not so great.
The public is a sucky place to work through one's issues of feeling hurt. And arguably in the long term, even those of us who have been cheated on have to eventually move on and get over it. We protect ourselves of course, but not everyone is a cheater. On the flip side even those who have been cheated on often don't want to admit to having done the same to someone at some time (though doing so, and facing it is one way to put cheating in perspective).
All that said, if dancing is too much for a SO that is fine. No apology should be needed. I don't actually know that many dancers could really handle their own SOs engaging in the high levels of contact they do; easy to say but they are not actually in the situation so words are cheap. But I also believe some dancers when they say they have limits and strictly abide by them.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-15-2009, 03:32 PM
If Earl has been "played" that might explain some of the bitterness.
The last time I got played was by the lesbian controlled family court. Now nobody play's Earl unless they outright steal from him. Cash, gas or ass nobody rides for free.
The last time I drove I thought someone would call the police because I would not give a dancer her bag until she paid me. Get this it's about 3AM in a parking lot in Newark and this dancer is screaming at an old white guy calling him a Pimp. I can see people looking out of windows so I start to drive away. She then gives me a bunch of wet wrinkled singles. I count them and she is trying to stiff me. More name calling as she gives me the rest of my money. I then politely hand her her bag.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-15-2009, 03:35 PM
Interesting thought. I've been played as well, so I know the feeling. I also know that not everyone is evil.
Who knows what evil lurks in hearts of women? Earl knows.
I think if someone is looking to cheat they will find a way, even create strife in their relationship to justify it.
Dancers cannot cheat it is called working. I like working with dancers.
Crazy drama bitches like the one Earl had do not have to be strippers.
Truer words were never spoken but dancers are more likely to give one a rough ride. They behave so much alike it is almost like there is a school or a forum where they learn the hustle.
I'm not saying there cannot be true affection from a dancer Roy's white tiger had true affection for him.
princessjas
11-15-2009, 05:50 PM
^^Oh, jeezus, get off it you moron! Didn't get played?!? Ya sure you fucking didn't. ::) You got castrated by not one, but two evil bitches. Admit it.
Every dancer, or female for that matter, is not like the trashy-assed Paterson hoes you interact with, just like all guys that visit stripclubs aren't judgemental, douchebags who spill their venom randomly on a public forum.
Yanno, some of us dancers have private lives that include men that don't have to pay IN ANY WAY to be with us. Sometimes, if you find a decent girl or dancer and not a soulless hooker, intelligence, kindness and other positive personality traits will actually win the affection and time of the woman you want to be with. Strangely, most of the other men on blue seem to get this. :P
Earl_the_Pearl
11-15-2009, 06:14 PM
^^Oh, jeezus, get off it you moron! Didn't get played?!?
Yanno, some of us dancers have private lives that include men that don't have to pay IN ANY WAY to be with us... Strangely, most of the other men on blue seem to get this. :P
How did I get played? I lived with her so why shouldn't I pay the bills I could well afford it and the clubs out there are way more fun. She even learned to not mind being a bird watcher. ;) There was no way I would ever let her move into my house, no women will ever have that kind of control over me again.
She is a dancer I know what she does and don't care; just don't bull shit me. I'm just saying if one has a dancer as a roommate he better not mind other men knowing things about her he does not. He may even meet some of them unaware.
OK men of Blue. How many of you have sex with dancers without having "to pay IN ANY WAY"?
xdamage
11-15-2009, 07:36 PM
Who knows what evil lurks in hearts of women? Earl knows.
I don't know if you remember sh0t, but he recommended a book called Sperm Wars by Robin Baker for some interesting perspectives on females and cheating behaviors. Apparently all those men who cheat have been cheating with someone :O
It's not that I think women are angels, quite the contrary, I think they are more or less about as "evil/good" as men, though their methods and means are sometimes different, their basic goals are far more alike then different.
So your phrase "Who knows what evil lurks in hearts of women?" could have been "Who knows what evil lurks in hearts of people?"
What may be true is that there seems to be a social change in the making. It's a pattern I'm starting to see, have been expecting for 30 years, and wondering if it will progress.
Put simply, we guys don't have particularly high expectations of each other. We're competitive with each other, and can have fun with each other, but it is quite rare to see us becoming emotionally involved with each other. We tend to deal with each other in very matter of fact ways much of the time, but we limit how much we trust each other with our "feelings" and we certainly don't expect much emotional support.
We absolutely don't pay each others bills, and we don't hang out with other guys who have dissimilar interests to our own or pay their bills.
So I wonder if we're not seeing more guys going "Hey, you know if sex isn't an exclusive thing anymore, then what exactly again was the reason for the male/female pair bonding roles? I'll just treat women as I treat guys. If it comes with benefits great, but if not I'll just buy sex like I'd buy a cooked meal, but that's it, why make it any more complex?"
I've been expecting men to eventually have their own un-coordinated liberation movement in response to the coordinated female liberation movement. It's just human nature that if the deal/rules change, so will all of the players. You can't change something as dramatic as male/female roles, or expectations about sexual exclusivity, and not expect the men to react as well.
But I still see a lot of bitterness over it, because I think we guys are having some trouble adjusting to certain truths, like yea, some women actually do cheat, and they really don't "need" us, and much more. All of that is fine, except I wonder what it will mean for the family unit.
Anyway, yea, the whole notion of high levels of sexual contact with strangers does push boundaries. It doesn't surprise me at all that it leaves a lot of people enjoying the entertainment, much as we might enjoy watching porn actors, but likewise I bet most people here wouldn't be okay with their SOs being porn actors, even if it is their legal job. Not even most dancers. It's just a job doesn't change how some people fundamentally feel about sexuality and exclusivity.
princessjas
11-15-2009, 09:28 PM
How did I get played?
It's beyond obvious that you're bitter over it, which means you got played in one way or another. If there was no taking advantage, then what, you're just a psychopath that's bitter over nothing?? Ya, right. ::)
OK men of Blue. How many of you have sex with dancers without having "to pay IN ANY WAY"?
I really hate to bring this up...but do you have any idea how many couples have met here on SW? There have been 5 or 6 that have went public and even more who haven't (and no those weren't "paid" relationships). None of those guys have been jackasses though...Go figure. :P
Earl_the_Pearl
11-15-2009, 09:56 PM
Apparently all those men who cheat have been cheating with someone
So your phrase "Who knows what evil lurks in hearts of women?" could have been "Who knows what evil lurks in hearts of people?"
What is all of this talk about cheating?
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows." is a colloquialism.
Let's not read more into this than there is I'm only commenting on the topic.
Does it matter?
Of course it matters dancers even hide what they do.
lopaw
11-15-2009, 10:00 PM
OK men of Blue. How many of you have sex with dancers without having "to pay IN ANY WAY"?
I used to spend all of my time having sex with dancers for free, but nowadays I find controlling the family court takes most of my time.
Sorry ladies.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-15-2009, 10:11 PM
It's beyond obvious that you're bitter over it, which means you got played in one way or another.
I really hate to bring this up...but do you have any idea how many couples have met here on SW? There have been 5 or 6 that have went public and even more who haven't (and no those weren't "paid" relationships). None of those guys have been jackasses though...Go figure. :P
I'm bitter that a dancer thinks she is smarter than I. If and that is a big IF I ever want a girl friend it will not be a dancer because yes it does honestly matter.
If and that is a big IF I ever want a boyfriend it will not be a strip club patron because yes, it honestly does matter!
Earl_the_Pearl
11-16-2009, 12:09 AM
If and that is a big IF I ever want a boyfriend it will not be a strip club patron because yes, it honestly does matter!
Many dancers have posted that many times; it is a well known fact. PLs dream of having a dancer girlfriend fortunately for them most never will.
xdamage
11-16-2009, 06:55 AM
What is all of this talk about cheating?
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows." is a colloquialism.
Let's not read more into this than there is I'm only commenting on the topic.
Of course it matters dancers even hide what they do.
Let me reply with this. You wrote out a story.
If we replaced the job of the woman in your story with a woman whose job was say, selling "baked goods", and if she held a private catered party where she served baked goods to a private group, would anyone have the slightest bit of feelings over it?
The problem is that she is selling sexuality, access to her body. It most people's minds then that is not "just a job", and likewise there is a world of difference in most people's minds between a customer spending money at Mrs. Fields to buy cookies, and going to a SC to touch mostly naked women. It is not "just entertainment". Some are fine with it, but some would react very strongly to seeing their man engaging in such high levels of contact with another woman, even if it is "Just entertainment".
Okay, we don't have to talk about "cheating" (though if you have been cheated on that does suck ass and nothing wrong with being pissed), but let me say this instead.
Part of the problem is we dance around another difficult aspect -
If it turned out that a higher percentage of dancers were engaging in higher levels of contact then is admitted on SW, even if it only happens rarely when drunk or the extremely rare sexually hot customer comes in, many people would think of it as "cheating".
The dancers that do cannot admit such things have happened on SW because not only might it ruin their own relationships if a SO read it, but they'd be strung up the flagpole of SW for being an extras girl.
See I think most of us would cheat if the conditions were right, but we avoid it by avoiding putting ourselves in positions where we can cheat. But there is something some people do. They set themselves up to cheat, even if they don't do it consciously. It allows them to cheat without having to feel guilt. The idea being that most of us humans simply do not have 100% control, and that if strongly tempted enough any of us has breaking points, so many people avoid compromising positions, because they know their own limits. The same applies to money and other foul dealings; we avoid compromising positions for good reasons.
I think it would be concerning for an SO that a dancer is put in a lot of situations where she might cheat. That the odds of it being a breaking point day are increased over most other jobs.
So does being a dancer harden one's breaking points, make one immune to compromise, or...
Or does a mix of alcohol, offers of large sums of money, or rare sexual chemistry, mixed with privacy and high contact lead to "cheating" more often then anyone can admit in public? Or do customers here just visit SCs enough that they are stumbling into offers of extras an above average percentage of the time?
JoeUnCool
11-16-2009, 10:05 AM
I used to spend all of my time having sex with dancers for free, but nowadays I find controlling the family court takes most of my time.
Sorry ladies.
I make Ron Jeremy look skiny so they won't have me. What's that about? hahaha
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-16-2009, 10:21 AM
I used to spend all of my time having sex with dancers for free, but nowadays I find controlling the family court takes most of my time.
Sorry ladies.
You are teh AWESOME! :)
rockie
11-16-2009, 01:34 PM
I've totally stared at guys' wallets with lust in my heart
I think I've experienced this in many of my club visits. My wallet is always in my front pocket, and I've mistaken that look to be something else entirely. You live and learn (gradually). http://forum.stripperweb.com/images/themes/sw4/icons/duh.gif
Earl_the_Pearl
11-16-2009, 04:09 PM
If we replaced the job of the woman in your story with a woman whose job was say, selling "baked goods", and if she held a private catered party where she served baked goods to a private group, would anyone have the slightest bit of feelings over it?
If she lied about privately selling baked goods thinking the PL is not intelligent enough to figure it out yes it would be the same. Especially when she gets in the way of the PL eating someone else's cake.
This is not about eating cake it is about a dancer cannot stop being a dancer.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-16-2009, 04:11 PM
I think I've experienced this in many of my club visits. My wallet is always in my front pocket, and I've mistaken that look to be something else entirely. You live and learn (gradually). http://forum.stripperweb.com/images/themes/sw4/icons/duh.gif
Never take a wallet into a SC; take only what is necessary and spread it out.
xdamage
11-16-2009, 06:25 PM
If she lied about privately selling baked goods thinking the PL is not intelligent enough to figure it out yes it would be the same. Especially when she gets in the way of the PL eating someone else's cake.
This is not about eating cake it is about a dancer cannot stop being a dancer.
Sure, that would be a lie too, but then if she was a baker she'd probably just say "Hey Honey, I'm off to cater a private party" for more or less the same reason I'd say "Hey Honey, I'm off to have a business lunch with a customer". There is nothing going on so nothing to lie about.
OTOH "Hey Honey, I'm off to have a private high contact session with another man" probably won't go over so well with most SOs, which she knows, so lies. Not saying a couple couldn't be okay with that, but if she is lying, in particular about sexual matters, it's because she already knows he is probably not okay with it. She can do whatever she wants, but should do so without stealing his power to choose what he wants. If she tells the truth then he can decide for himself does it matter.
My guess is far more people would be okay with their SOs catering a private party then they would with their SOs engaging in high levels of sexual contact with others in private. Money isn't everything, and doesn't make everything okay to everyone. They should be allowed to choose for themselves what their limits are.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-16-2009, 06:36 PM
OTOH "Hey Honey, I'm off to have a private high contact session with another man" probably won't go over so well with most SOs, which she knows, so lies.
Honesty is paramount. If one dates a dancer one must be willing to not care about her more than a friend with benefits. I have no problem with that. All women become borne again virgins when they find a man they want long term.
xdamage
11-16-2009, 07:28 PM
Honesty is paramount. If one dates a dancer one must be willing to not care about her more than a friend with benefits. I have no problem with that. All women become borne again virgins when they find a man they want long term.
We people place a lot of value in sexual exclusivity, yet at the same time our minds are often filled with fantasies about sex with multiple other people. I have no problem with the ambivalence but some do.
Like I wrote a few times, a lot of people watch porn and enjoy it, but wouldn't be okay with their spouse being a porn actor, even if it is a legal "just a job" - the value of sexual exclusivity runs deep in how we think and feel. Again, ambivalence.
Like other things of value, it can be traded for other things we want. Not everyone values it as highly, and that is also a variable depending on other factors in their life (their age, their looks, are children involved, and their own personalities).
A lot of guys value it and likewise if there is no sexual exclusivity, they aren't going to have any feelings or interests beyond friends with benefits. That's fine.
But some guys are okay with it. No idea how long those relationships last though as compared with others in society. Could be a lot of guys are okay with it long enough to get laid a bunch of times and then also ... end up feeling like why invest emotions into it. Don't know - no studies I know of have been done.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-16-2009, 07:52 PM
no studies I know of have been done.
That would be a good study for your doctorial theses.
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-16-2009, 08:20 PM
Honesty is paramount. If one dates a dancer one must be willing to not care about her more than a friend with benefits. I have no problem with that. All women become borne again virgins when they find a man they want long term.
You do kind of have a point. I've had to do a lot of lying about my experiences to my current partner. However, I am always eager to hear about his so I can throw it back in his face when the time is right. He specifically told me he doesn't want to hear about what I've done though, so he is asking to be lied to, just like most men.