Log in

View Full Version : Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10]

jack0177057
12-08-2009, 12:24 PM
Exactly. Well put. I've been in open relationship and monogamous relationships and enjoyed them both. If I were to get married though, I think I personally would prefer to have a monogamous marriage. So, once my partner and I decided that was the commitment we both wanted, I would hold us both to that. If there ever came a time when I decided I didn't want to be monogamous anymore, I would have a choice to make: 1) discuss my feelings with my partner and see if he would be interested in opening up the relationship, and if the answer was no 2) divorce, or 3) continue to stay in the monogamous relationship, and continue to be faithful. I would expect the same from him.

So, would you approve of GR telling his wife - "I either want an open marriage so I can screw other women or I will divorce you." ? -- That's an unfair change in position (from the original vows of monogamy), an ultimatum and coercion.

I don't think #2 is an ethically viable option, unless something has materially changed in the relationship, e.g., one spouse consistently rejects the sexual advances of the other spouse and the essential needs of the rejected spouse are not being satisfied within the marriage.

charlie61
12-08-2009, 12:36 PM
I think a lack of desire on the woman's part usually signals much, much larger problems in the relationship. (unless he is married to an oddity who doesn't like sex)

In other words, women don't want to fuck men they dislike. Women don't want to fuck men who don't participate in the relationship. Women don't want to fuck men when the relationship is in the shitter.

So any conversation about sex (i.e. an ultimatum: I fuck you or I leave) would be unfair...because it'd be discussing the symptom and not the disease.

However, yes: not discussing one's affairs is obviously much, much, much more immoral than anything it has been compared to in this thread. I mean come on, people...stop splitting hairs. Getting a lap dance with a stripper isn't as bad as kissing someone which isn't as bad as oral sex, which isn't as bad as fucking. They're all 'cheating,' but GR clearly isn't leaving his home to make out with hookers.

JayATee
12-08-2009, 12:37 PM
So, would you approve of GR telling his wife - "I either want an open marriage so I can screw other women or I will divorce you." ? -- That's an unfair change in position (from the original vows of monogamy), an ultimatum and coercion.



I don't think #2 is an ethically viable option, unless something has materially changed in the relationship, e.g., one spouse consistently rejects the sexual advances of the other spouse and the essential needs of the rejected spouse are not being satisfied within the marriage.


Unfair? LoL!!! The vows have already been broken. There was no monogamy. That's whats unfair.

jack0177057
12-08-2009, 12:41 PM
Do you get sick of having sex with the same person all the time? Don't you want to try someone different? It seems to me that being with the same person for years and years would be like eating the same food at the same restaurant everyday.

As long as my GF loves sex as much as I do and is as creative as me in the bedroom, I don't think I would ever get "sick" of having sex with her or of our exclusivity. For me, roleplaying and costumes create plenty of variety - not because I'm pretending she's somebody else, but because she's exploring a different and more risque version of herself and I discover another side of her personality (which might be deeply hidden beneath her "nice girl" facade).

Its like having the same chef at the same restaurant, but with lots of different menu items and her culinary skills keep getting better and better.

Yeah - once in while, it is nice to see, touch and smell another sexy half-naked body, which is why I get lap dances at the SC. But, I'm perfectly happy not getting past a high-contact lap dance.

jack0177057
12-08-2009, 12:45 PM
Unfair? LoL!!! The vows have already been broken. There was no monogamy. That's whats unfair.

That's true.

But, even if he had confronted her with this ultimatum before the infidelity, it would still have been unfair.

JayATee
12-08-2009, 12:50 PM
That's true.

But, even if he had confronted her with this ultimatum before the infidelity, it would still have been unfair.

What's unfair about it? Personally I'd want to know exactly what my husband was thinking. That way I have something to base my decisions on. Maybe she would have chosen not to marry him. Maybe she'd choose to divorce him so that she wouldn't be subjected to possible diseases or simply the pain of needing to make the choice of losing her husband or having to share. Maybe she'd like to know what kind of person he really is so she can make an informed decision about HER future.

And maybe none of this matters at all, because as has been already stated, he has no intention of changing his behavior or telling his wife. Talk about unfair.

charlie61
12-08-2009, 12:53 PM
I think a lack of desire on the woman's part usually signals much, much larger problems in the relationship. (unless he is married to an oddity who doesn't like sex)

In other words, women don't want to fuck men they dislike. Women don't want to fuck men who don't participate in the relationship. Women don't want to fuck men when the relationship is in the shitter.

So any conversation about sex (i.e. an ultimatum: I fuck you or I leave) would be unfair...because it'd be discussing the symptom and not the disease.

However, yes: not discussing one's affairs is obviously much, much, much more immoral than anything it has been compared to in this thread. I mean come on, people...stop splitting hairs. Getting a lap dance with a stripper isn't as bad as kissing someone which isn't as bad as oral sex, which isn't as bad as fucking. They're all 'cheating,' but GR clearly isn't leaving his home to make out with hookers.

I quotes myselv.

If GR (and people like him) aren't happy with the sex they're not getting at home, I'd be guessing 90% of the time this signals much larger issues in the relationship. In other words, sex ain't the problem.

jack0177057
12-08-2009, 01:06 PM
What's unfair about it? Personally I'd want to know exactly what my husband was thinking. That way I have something to base my decisions on. Maybe she would have chosen not to marry him. Maybe she'd choose to divorce him so that she wouldn't be subjected to possible diseases or simply the pain of needing to make the choice of losing her husband or having to share. Maybe she'd like to know what kind of person he really is so she can make an informed decision about HER future.

And maybe none of this matters at all, because as has been already stated, he has no intention of changing his behavior or telling his wife. Talk about unfair.

In the actual version of events -- I agree its unfair. The only thing that would arguably make things fair would be if GR's wife also slept around. (This is very possible, since research show that most women who cheat on their husbands do so out of vindictiveness, when they discover his infidelity. So, more than likely, GR's wife will at some point discover the cheating and will do the same in retaliation.)

In a hypothetical where one spouse tells the other, I want an open marriage or I will divorce you (prior to the infedility) -- That's unfair. Of course, if that person is going to do it anyway, then I agree with you - its better that the other spouse be told about it.

Too many variables - The only fair thing to do is discuss it and if they both don't agree to an open marriage, they should both honor their commitments (again, assuming neither one is neglecting the needs of the other).

charlie61
12-08-2009, 01:08 PM
^ That's what I keep saying in my posts. Asking for a divorce in that situation is ONLY unfair because it's using sex as the cause, when it's actually just a symptom.

JayATee
12-08-2009, 01:15 PM
In the actual version of events -- I agree its unfair. The only thing that would arguably make things fair would be if GR's wife also slept around. (This is very possible, since research show that most women who cheat on their husbands do so out of vindictiveness, when they discover his infidelity. So, more than likely, GR's wife will at some point discover the cheating and will do the same in retaliation.)

In a hypothetical where one spouse tells the other, I want an open marriage or I will divorce you (prior to the infedility) -- That's unfair. Of course, if that person is going to do it anyway, then I agree with you - its better that the other spouse be told about it.

Too many variables - The only fair thing to do is discuss it and if they both don't agree to an open marriage, they should both honor their commitments (again, assuming neither one is neglecting the needs of the other).

Ok... I actually happen to agree with you. However, if we're talking hypotheticals... why wouldn't the open relationship not be brought up until after marriage?? Wouldn't it negate a multitude of problems to tell your SO that's the type of relationship you want?? Then if they don't want to be with you theres no issue of divorce. Or unfairly holding it over them in lieu of divorce.

And Im sorry, if someone is feeling neglected that gives them the right to break their vows? My husband is on the road for months at a time. Im allowed to fuck other guys bc he's not home to fuck me?? Don't think so! Vows are vows. You take them, you keep them. Otherwise don't get married.

jack0177057
12-08-2009, 01:20 PM
I quotes myselv.

If GR (and people like him) aren't happy with the sex they're not getting at home, I'd be guessing 90% of the time this signals much larger issues in the relationship. In other words, sex ain't the problem.

(1) Chicken or the egg problem - is the marriage deteriorating because of no sex or is there no sex because the marriage is deteriorating? For me - sex is what creates intimacy, bonding, sympathy and rejuvenates the relationship. In my case (high-libido sensual person), I would say get me into bed, screw my brains out and I'll do whatever you want me to do. You can "soft-sell" me anything in the sack - Scrub the toilets? No problem. On the other hand, deliberately withhold sex from me, and you won't get anything across to me. My emotional/sympathy system just shuts down.

(2) Vicious cycle - Spouse A feels emotionally neglected so withholds sex. Spouse B feels sexually neglected so withholds emotion. This is a no-win downward spiral.

jack0177057
12-08-2009, 01:29 PM
why wouldn't the open relationship not be brought up until after marriage?? Wouldn't it negate a multitude of problems to tell your SO that's the type of relationship you want?? Then if they don't want to be with you theres no issue of divorce. Or unfairly holding it over them in lieu of divorce.

I totally agree with you.

In Elvia's hypothetical, she starts out monogomous and then changes her mind - "So, once my partner and I decided that was the commitment we both wanted, I would hold us both to that. If there ever came a time when I decided I didn't want to be monogamous anymore,..."


And Im sorry, if someone is feeling neglected that gives them the right to break their vows? My husband is on the road for months at a time. Im allowed to fuck other guys bc he's not home to fuck me?? Don't think so! Vows are vows. You take them, you keep them. Otherwise don't get married.

You're not being "neglected" just because he has to travel on business. I assume that he calls you all the time and you stay connected. I assume he says things like, "I miss you" and "I wish we were together right now". "Neglected" would be if he never called you during his trips and, when you called him, he would never returned your phone calls. - I doubt you would put up with that.

JayATee
12-08-2009, 01:31 PM
I totally agree with you.

In Elvia's hypothetical, she starts out monogomous and then changes her mind - "So, once my partner and I decided that was the commitment we both wanted, I would hold us both to that. If there ever came a time when I decided I didn't want to be monogamous anymore,..."

Deal breaker. Wouldn't marry the person then. You can't eat your cake and have it too.


You're not being "neglected" just because he has to travel on business. I assume that he calls you all the time and you stay connected. I assume he says things like, "I miss you" and "I wish we were together right now". "Neglected" would be if he never called you during his trips and, when you called him, he would never returned your phone calls. - I doubt you would put up with that.

No I wouldn't, nor would I cheat on him either.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
12-08-2009, 02:09 PM
I think a lack of desire on the woman's part usually signals much, much larger problems in the relationship. (unless he is married to an oddity who doesn't like sex)

In other words, women don't want to fuck men they dislike. Women don't want to fuck men who don't participate in the relationship. Women don't want to fuck men when the relationship is in the shitter.


Sadly, I have to disagree. We are prone to lose attraction to our mates, just like any man can, even when the partner is a wonderful. It happened to me. He had everything I wanted physically; great looks, buff body, knew what I liked sexually...I just grew bored with it. The problem wasn't the relationship, it was me. For a long time I thought that sex was all about the "thrill of the chase" and got bored with the same thing over and over. That's a major flaw I've worked on. No need for compassion or rationalization, as I've said, I'm a shitbag for doing it. But it does happen for no good reason.

charlie61
12-08-2009, 04:22 PM
^ You're right. I was speaking generally...and also specifically about GR's situation (which I could also be wrong about). Attraction of course plays a huge role in all of this.

kittygirl
12-09-2009, 03:35 AM
I left this thread because it seemed the OP wanted to get back to the original intent.

It seems GR just can't let this go. He has a desperate need to justify to others how his cheating is the same as a strip club.

Frankly, I'd be way happier hearing my man was watching dancers and maybe getting lapdances (no extras of course) than cheating on me.

I'd be glad he had enough respect to go to a place where a "line" is drawn on the services offered rather than the other scenarios where sex is possible.

GR, I think you are having a crisis. You can't let this go. Trying to convince others is probably covering up your need to get validation or convince yourself.

Just like you said earlier, you just don't want to let your wife go. You aren't ready to give her up.

Sounds like you need to work on yourself and see if you can stand being with yourself - but you're keeping her to avoid that. She represents a vision of you that I guess you would like to be and giving her up leaves you with the jerk cheater and not the fantasy you can imagine yourself to be when you look in her eyes.

Almost Jaded
12-09-2009, 10:13 AM
GR can't let go? He hasn't posted for pages now, LMAO

Elvia
12-09-2009, 02:15 PM
I totally agree with you.

In Elvia's hypothetical, she starts out monogomous and then changes her mind - "So, once my partner and I decided that was the commitment we both wanted, I would hold us both to that. If there ever came a time when I decided I didn't want to be monogamous anymore,..."


Yes, it was a hypothetical. I can't imagine myself ever doing that. But if one does decide that they can't or won't live up to the promises they made that are the foundation of their marriage then I do think it much better, and certainly more honest, to be upfront with your partner about that so they have the opportunity to find someone who will give them what they want, then to sneak around live a lie.

So yes, I would "approve" of Gr being upfront with his wife much more than I approve of what he's doing now. It sucks, but marriages do end. In a perfect world, everyone would know themselves well enough to not only be honest about what they're capable of in the beginning, but what they're capable of and willing to do for the rest of their lives. But some people get married and then come to terms with the fact that they are gay. Some people realize they have fetishes that are an integral part of their sex life, and discover that that makes them incompatible with their partner. Maybe some people even realize that they are "incapable"of monogamy. Though that's clearly not what happened in Gr's case, since he suspected this ahead of time and changed his vows over it, without his wife realizing what that meant.

Frankly, I don't know how anyone can really know that they can be with someone for the rest of their lives. There's no way to know that you won't be drastically different people in a few decades. The only times I've come close to marriage, both myself and my partner have acknowledged that we both feel this way, but figured "hey, let's try our best." So I doubt if I ever got married that "till death do we part" would be in the vows.

Golden_Rule
12-09-2009, 02:31 PM
^ You're right. I was speaking generally...and also specifically about GR's situation (which I could also be wrong about). Attraction of course plays a huge role in all of this.

Honestly, you don't know my situation. You know what I have expressed about a very small fraction of it but to assume it is my situation in total is presuming a bit too much.


I think a lack of desire on the woman's part usually signals much, much larger problems in the relationship. (unless he is married to an oddity who doesn't like sex)

In other words, women don't want to fuck men they dislike. Women don't want to fuck men who don't participate in the relationship. Women don't want to fuck men when the relationship is in the shitter.

So any conversation about sex (i.e. an ultimatum: I fuck you or I leave) would be unfair...because it'd be discussing the symptom and not the disease.

My pointing it out is apt to tick you off but I am sorry, the above is a perfect example of a statement born almost entirely out of a lack of experience which, with its presence, ought to lead to a greater depth in understanding of the human condition.

Life is far more complicated than you paint it above.

My wife loved sex [still does I believe]. Things happen though. In our travels a son died, she went though a lousy [and early] menopause, she developed major arthritis and is in real serious pain most of the time - to the point she can barely get around sometimes but unable to take most pain meds because of a blood clotting problem [many pain killers, particuarly NSAIDS, thin the blood]. Needless to say depression regarding all of the above, including not having sex with her husband, doesn't help.

There are lots of reasons sex stops in a marriage that have nothing to do with signaling problems in the relationship. Especially as one gets older. None of them having to do with anyone being an "oddity" either.



And maybe none of this matters at all, because as has been already stated, he has no intention of changing his behavior or telling his wife. Talk about unfair.

Yes, it is unfair. Life is unfair. You will be, if you have not been already, unfair. Even if you have been so already, you will be so again. You are a human being. One of the things we have in common is that we are all unfair at multiple times during our lives. Some less so than others, but all of us, unfair.

In my KNOWINGLY choosing, in this specific case, to be unfair and controlling the way I go about it I do so in a way that attempts to limit the damage being done by it to as small a killing field as possible. That may be the difference between myself and others who protest far too loudly about other people's unfairness, intimating they know nothing of it as perpetrators of same in their own lives.

I politely request that you please spare me any denials of same. I've lived a long time and seen far too much not to know better.


GR can't let go? He hasn't posted for pages now, LMAO

Not trying to make a liar out of you AJ. There was nothing I could have said over the last few days that wasn't 100% redundant. Wouldn't have bothered now except I saw something specific to me that wasn't addressed prior that I felt needed a response.

Truly wishing all well... [whether some choose to believe it or not]

charlie61
12-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Life is far more complicated than you paint it above.

My wife loved sex [still does I believe]. Things happen though. In our travels a son died, she went though a lousy [and early] menopause, she developed major arthritis and is in real serious pain most of the time - to the point she can barely get around sometimes but unable to take most pain meds because of a blood clotting problem [many pain killers, particuarly NSAIDS, thin the blood]. Needless to say depression regarding all of the above, including not having sex with her husband, doesn't help.

There are lots of reasons sex stops in a marriage that have nothing to do with signaling problems in the relationship. Especially as one gets older. None of them having to do with anyone being an "oddity" either.



Your sob story only makes it that much more sick that you'd cheat on her.

Whatever. I'm out of this thread.

Golden_Rule
12-09-2009, 03:20 PM
Your sob story only makes it that much more sick that you'd cheat on her.

I was absolutely sure you'd feel that way. Please refer to the below. It applies equally to you as it does to all of us. You'll just have the added issue of feeling like a hypocrite the day you figure it out. :) [same as I did when experience taught me a thing or two about life and how it deals with absolutes]


Yes, it is unfair. Life is unfair. You will be, if you have not been already, unfair. Even if you have been so already, you will be so again. You are a human being. One of the things we have in common is that we are all unfair at multiple times during our lives. Some less so than others, but all of us, unfair.



Whatever. I'm out of this thread.

Doubt it, but if so I wish you well... always have, always will, and I promise not to say I told you so if or when you've been unfair yourself [and if you do I hope you'll have taken the pains I have to limit the damage you'll cause]... }:D

Elvia
12-09-2009, 03:23 PM
Oh please. Someone who was "taking pains to limit the damage" would stop fucking other women. Not coming up with a bunch of weak excuses as to why he just can't do that.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Golden_Rule
12-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Oh please. Someone who was "taking pains to limit the damage" would stop fucking other women. Not coming up with a bunch of weak excuses as to why he just can't do that.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You see though only you can say that with any impunity because you have never been knowingly unfair to someone else, nor will you ever be, You therefore will never know the inner humiliation of having to acknowledge, if only to yourself, the hypocrisy of your former position on the subject of being unfair to others.

I admire your perfection and plan to wear a suit and tie to your beatification ceremony. }:D


[Excuse me, I must off and away now. The dead horse in the corner requires whipping]

jack0177057
12-09-2009, 06:04 PM
Yes, it was a hypothetical. I can't imagine myself ever doing that. But if one does decide that they can't or won't live up to the promises they made that are the foundation of their marriage then I do think it much better, and certainly more honest, to be upfront with your partner about that so they have the opportunity to find someone who will give them what they want, then to sneak around live a lie...

But some people get married and then come to terms with the fact that they are gay. Some people realize they have fetishes that are an integral part of their sex life, and discover that that makes them incompatible with their partner. Maybe some people even realize that they are "incapable"of monogamy.

Not to defend GR --

But, let's say the husband realized that he is incapable of monogamy. He would opt for a divorce, and would be better off, but both divorce or the truth would be utterly devastating to wife - she would sink into near-suicidal despair. Would you ever agree that "blissfull ignorance" would be the best thing for the cheated wife, assuming she never found out about the infidelity and that the cheating husband was a good husband in every other respect?

Another version of this is the disabled and impotent man whose very tender, loving and attentive wife is having a very discreet affair with the neighbor, because she can't live without sexual intimacy, but doesn't want to abandon her husband.

Just asking hypothetically...

Elvia
12-09-2009, 08:36 PM
^^^ And what if they find out when they contract herpes, or worse? Or what if they just find out, but after having invested years or even decades more time than they otherwise would have?

Elvia
12-09-2009, 08:38 PM
I admire your perfection and plan to wear a suit and tie to your beatification ceremony. }:D


Thanks, but the guest list is already filled with up with the higher quality people you just can't believe exist.

I guess I couldn't either if I just had to find a way to justify treating my partners like shit.

It really is amazing that some people just can't imagine that there are people who don't knowingly hurt and betray the people they love. How incredibly depressing.

jack0177057
12-09-2009, 09:15 PM
^^^ And what if they find out when they contract herpes, or worse? Or what if they just find out, but after having invested years or even decades more time than they otherwise would have?

I agree, the mercy lie only works if its never discovered and never results in an STD... Those are big "ifs".

But, I think there may be rare and extreme situations where its better to lie, out of mercy, than to divorce. I'm not saying GR fits that category. The extreme case will probably involve things like disability, impotence, pathological frigidity, mental illness, chronic depression, etc. -- when divorce will leave the sick spouse in complete isolation with no hope of finding a new mate, despair and a potentially suicidal condition.

Elvia
12-09-2009, 09:16 PM
If someone's partner is really that delicate, I think that's even less justification for cheating on them, whether you're open about it or not.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
12-09-2009, 09:41 PM
I dated a guy whose wife cheated on him and gave him herpes. She denied it to the end of the marriage. Nice guy too. I mean, herp is manageable, but imagine if it was something worse.

Dirty Ernie
12-10-2009, 12:31 AM
Maybe it's possible GR's wife knows or at least suspects that he is having sex outside the marriage.
I believe GR mentioned there was a discussion early in the relationship or marriage about outside partners, so while that option was rejected, she is aware of his once having this desire. If she's aware of the nature of the private parties he works, she may already assume there may be some activity going on. Given her physical ailments she may be ok with this arrangement, but may not be willing to actually have a conversation about it.

My intention is not to drag another horse into the thread to beat on, but to admit certainly there are potential contributory facts we do not have (nor do I want them).

jack0177057
12-10-2009, 09:28 AM
If someone's partner is really that delicate, I think that's even less justification for cheating on them, whether you're open about it or not.

Young husband comes back from the war injured or gets injured in a major car accident and becomes a quadriplegic uncapable of having sexual relations with his young wife, who has a very healthy sex drive. She takes very good care of him and sacrifices many things to be with him all the time because he gets uber-depresses if left alone. After two years without sex, she is going crazy. She's tried every vibe available in the market, but can't stop the intense craving for real human sexual intimacy. Her choices: (1) divorce him - he will be alone for the rest of his life and is likely to attempt suicide, or (2) continue being an attentive and loving wife, but have an extremely discreet affair with someone, and make sure neither her husband nor anyone else ever finds out about it.

If I was the quadriplegic husband in this hypothetical, I would prefer that my wife opt for (2).

laurcon
12-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Young husband comes back from the war injured or gets injured in a major car accident and becomes a quadriplegic uncapable of having sexual relations with his young wife, who has a very healthy sex drive. She takes very good care of him and sacrifices many things to be with him all the time because he gets uber-depresses if left alone. After two years without sex, she is going crazy. She's tried every vibe available in the market, but can't stop the intense craving for real human sexual intimacy. Her choices: (1) divorce him - he will be alone for the rest of his life and is likely to attempt suicide, or (2) continue being an attentive and loving wife, but have an extremely discreet affair with someone, and make sure neither her husband nor anyone else ever finds out about it.

If I was the quadriplegic husband in this hypothetical, I would prefer that my wife opt for (2).

i don't understand then why when people get married they say "for better or worse" instead of "for better or till you can't fuck me anymore". i think the husband has a world of opportunity and shouldn't limit himself to a young cheating wife. just because he's handicapped he's going to be alone forever and should kill himself? that's ridiculous.

Quadriplegic man goes hunting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6769779/US-quadriplegic-man-wins-right-to-go-hunting.html

Quadriplegic man sails across Atlantic Ocean
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/8405295.stm

you would maybe prefer the cheating wife, but also that could be just you. if she really cared about him, they would work on a way to have sex that was satisfying and brought them even closer. i'm sure he'd still like to get rode and his face sat on.

this guy mentions a shot that makes his dick hard for 5hrs...
http://ask.disaboom.com/askjeremy/?utm_source=casalemedia.com&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=120x600_jeremy_120x600_a&utm_campaign=2008/1/1_cpc_casalemedia.com

jack0177057
12-10-2009, 11:46 AM
i don't understand then why when people get married they say "for better or worse".

That's an ideal... Taken literally, its actually a license to cheat because the cheated spouse has to put up with it and cannot seek divorce. Your husband can cheat on you and beat you, and you could not walk away from the marriage.

Anyway, in my hypothetical the wife is not seeking divorce. She is admirably putting up with the "worse" of all possible situations, but she's getting a little sexual relief on the side very discreetly.

laurcon
12-10-2009, 01:35 PM
That's an ideal... Taken literally, its actually a license to cheat because the cheated spouse has to put up with it and cannot seek divorce. Your husband can cheat on you and beat you, and you could not walk away from the marriage.

Anyway, in my hypothetical the wife is not seeking divorce. She is admirably putting up with the "worse" of all possible situations, but she's getting a little sexual relief on the side very discreetly.

i just find it interesting that you think men and women work the same way and she would need to let out sexual frustration like men apparently do. i think that when women cheat, its more about the emotional connection, being wanted, and feeling sexy, than just the physical pleasure. you might be surprised how a woman's sex drive can change based on her situation. once again, i think she would still be able to get enough sexual pleasure from her husband to be satisfied. and when a woman is really in love with someone, the idea of being with someone else just isn't appealing.

and i think the "for better or worse" line applies to situations, not misjudged moral character. i don't think it means "whether your husband turns out to be a good guy or a shitty one that beats you".

jack0177057
12-10-2009, 02:00 PM
i just find it interesting that you think men and women work the same way and she would need to let out sexual frustration like men apparently do. i think that when women cheat, its more about the emotional connection, being wanted, and feeling sexy, than just the physical pleasure.

You're stereotyping genders. What you say may be generally true, but not true in every case. In some relationships, the woman has a higher sex drive than the man. In some cases, the man is the more "emotional" of the two.

The feminist, Naomi Wolf, says in her book Promiscuities: The Secret Struggle for Womanhood (http://www.amazon.com/Promiscuities-Struggle-Womanhood-Naomi-Wolf/dp/0449907643/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260478427&sr=8-3) that women are actually more sensual and sexual than men, but that patriarchal societies have historically forced and shamed them into concealing and repressing the expression of their sexuality.

JayATee
12-10-2009, 02:06 PM
This thread needs to die.

mediocrity
12-10-2009, 02:08 PM
That's an ideal... Taken literally, its actually a license to cheat because the cheated spouse has to put up with it and cannot seek divorce. Your husband can cheat on you and beat you, and you could not walk away from the marriage.

Anyway, in my hypothetical the wife is not seeking divorce. She is admirably putting up with the "worse" of all possible situations, but she's getting a little sexual relief on the side very discreetly.

Is that like being a little bit pregnant?

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
12-10-2009, 03:21 PM
This thread WAS great!?!

Golden_Rule
12-10-2009, 06:47 PM
It really is amazing that some people just can't imagine that there are people who don't knowingly hurt and betray the people they love. How incredibly depressing.

I have no idea about the nature of the people individually present here on S-W. I do know the percentage of dancers I know personally who are faithful to their S.O.'s and would easily put numbers ahead of the community at large for cheating.

Maybe I only know cheating dancers?

Maybe S-W draws faithful dancers out in large numbers?

Maybe most people say one thing and do something entirely different [certainly not my issue].

Maybe none of that is true and people are just people and will do as people do. And what a very large number of people do is cheat on their S.O.s. To a degree where the teeter-tooter of life can't call, with any real certainty, whether there are more cheaters than faithful lovers or not.


I'm not saying GR fits that category.

No, you rightfully couldn't as you don't know me any better than I know you [and thank you for knowing that], but I am saying my wife and I fall into that category. Her issues resolve in such ways as our sex life, as good as it once was, is going to be in the dumper for the foreseeable future. Maybe it changes if she finally agrees to counseling for her depression and a pain management specialist for everything else. I know she doesn't want to divorce me. I know, because SHE says so that what happiness is in her live comes from two sources: me and our grand children. I know I wouldn't deny of that because I do love her, and make every effort to cause her to know that whatever else I may be doing she is my first priority.

At the same time I don't believe the above means I have to live without sex. Others may feel that is so, and that is their right to believe anything they want, but to judge me for how I handle my business when it has no direct [or indirect for that matter] on their lives they DO NOT have a right to do. Oh will speak their piece, and they will ring their bells of superiority, but they have to know as they also have no direct, or indirect, effect on my life it all means as little to me as my opinion of them should mean to them.

I know my wife probably wouldn't want a divorce, even if she knew, but her upbringing and social values would compel her to seek one. She was taught, and believes, that is what cheated on spouses do: get divorced.

As I have said, I don't believe the same things in that regard. If the situation was reversed, or we could afford to be more open about the topic without one of us running off to seek the services of a divorce lawyer, I'd be happy with an open marriage. Yes, even one were she found more dick than I found pussy.

Unfortunately, given the way things work today, where even the majority of cheaters would demand physical monogamy from their spouses [again, I'm not one of those], I can't come clean on the physical dalliances. Both my wife and I have too much to lose.

Side note: You want to know what true cheating is to me. The emotional connection between people is what is sacrosanct to me. A person who has a totally physical sexual experience with someone other than their S.O. cheats far less, in my book, than one who has a torrid cyber love affair over some social network where all manner of emotional connections and loyalties are declared.


If someone's partner is really that delicate, I think that's even less justification for cheating on them, whether you're open about it or not.

You would. Life may teach you differently over time. I hope, if you have an awakening, its not a rude one.

Wishing well to All...

Golden_Rule
12-10-2009, 06:58 PM
Maybe it's possible GR's wife knows or at least suspects that he is having sex outside the marriage.

That is a possibility. How likely it is I can't say. She is a smart woman. Very much smarter than the average person actually. If I had to guess I would say she probably knows I am doing something to manage dealing with the current downsizing of our sex life. She is aware of my past [that I was a swinger]. She is aware of what position sex plays in my life. She is aware that I cheated [both emotionally and physically, which I will never do again] in a previous marriage when the sex went south. So I'd say the odds are high.

It is both possible and plausible that she doesn't want the topic raised anymore than I do. I'd very much prefer that we could both be an open about the situation rather than have it be something we may be both sweeping under the rug. Like I said though, if it was brought right out into the open the odds of her feeling compelled to seek a divorce, because that was what she was raised to believe women with cheating husbands do, is very high. Even if a divorce is not actually what she wanted. And I'd like to think, even if I am wrong about it [but I don't think I am], that she'd not want one [even though that isn't how it would work out].

Golden_Rule
12-10-2009, 07:08 PM
YIf I was the quadriplegic husband in this hypothetical, I would prefer that my wife opt for (2).

Me too. I'd add one thing though.

The desire for the wife to stay, not out of guilt or just compassion but that while the sex isn't there anymore she still finds the emotional relationship with her husband totally satisfying.

Reverse that and you have precisely what I experience with my Mrs. Emotionally I don't want to be with anyone else. Physically, while I have the desire for variety, I could probably deal with being monogamous [though it would be hard]. In the current situation, physical monogamy is impossible.

Do you throw the emotional relationship baby out with the bath water? Not to my way of thinking. Again, I don't think my wife would want me to either [as long as she could claim she never knew about simply physical sex outside the marriage because it was never placed above her or out where she had to deal with it].

Anyway... Jay is right. This thread, or at least this portion of it, needs to die. I've explained myself so that anyone wanting to use the info can place it into context with the opinions I presented... it helps to judge the value of an opinion, different than judging the value of a person, to know how the source of it came about it - so I share it in the context of full disclosure... I remind certain people that isn't the same thing as giving a rat's fart about what they think of me [again, I am sure that is mutual and there is no reason it shouldn't be].

Validation from a website I don't need. Respect is nice but I'm not expecting any. Ideas stand on their own merit. Mine will sink or swim based on that alone.

Golden_Rule
12-10-2009, 07:14 PM
This thread WAS great!?!

No reason it couldn't have remained so. There was some really interesting stuff discussed. Ideas thrown around. Not just mine. Those who dissented every bit as much. They just had to add the judgmental crap and I just had to defend myself.

Could of done without either I suppose, but its not like me to take a hit and not defend any more than its like those certain people to keep their opinions as opinions and not make things personal. [Saying, "I truly couldn't disagree with you more.", even, "I think your opinion is full of shit.", is SOOOO much different than stating, "You're a bad person." Just in case someone needs to have it explained what the difference is between an opinion and elevating that opinion to a judgment.]

BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?

And so it goes...

kittygirl
12-10-2009, 10:22 PM
Note to remind myself to steer clear of swingers, men that want open relationships, and former cheaters.

I have no interest in gettting played.

By the way GR, doesn't exactly sound like your wife's a quadripilegic. Sounds like she doesn't want to have sex with you.

My grandma had such bad arthritis that her fingers curled and she was getting busy in her 70's. With some position modifications I'm sure.

Funny, you guys seem so open to your wives cheating, let me guess you definitely aren't faithful.

And in practice, I'd love to see you maintain such acceptance.

Elvia
12-10-2009, 11:23 PM
I think it's hilarious (and typical) how Gr agrees this thread "needs to die" and then goes on to immediately quadruple-post.

:rotfl:

kittygirl
12-10-2009, 11:54 PM
Yeah that's why I didn't feel so bad throwing one in there.

This thread has totally morphed in to Golden Rule's "Lessons on How to Feel Good Cheating on Your Beloved Wife Because Everyone is a Liar and Betrays People (AKA Being Human) Whether They Admit it on Stripperweb or Not".

Funny thing is I don't think he got the joke about him "not posting for ages". He was actually like "I thought it would be rudundant." Huh?

Good fun.

There is something about that line; "Thou doth protest too much".

I really think she knows and probably has a nice "manfriend" she shares her real life with. He might even feel it which is why his constant justifications keep coming out.

He is dealing with severe distress and his greatest fear - "emotional cheating".

My mom has cheated for decades and really kicked it up a notch in her 60's. But my Dad knows about it because we kids told him. Not happy news but they're still together and the honesty is what kept even my mom sane.

I don't know what you can call a marriage when the only honesty you can have is pages and pages of redundant accusations about others' lack of morality on a site for dancers. Maybe that's why he's losing it. He must be lonely.

Djoser
12-11-2009, 12:17 AM
Since this thread no longer concerns the difference between vaginal and clitoral orgasm, and has degenerated into a discussion about cheating, I am killing it.

GR, I like you, but please refrain from posting four replies in a row in these threads. I have found in my nearly 8 years here that 'less is more' when it comes to these things--believe me I can ramble on with the best of them, too!.

People don't want to read long-winded posts whether or not the posts are making valid points, and no one wants to read four of them in a row. Thanks...