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charlie61
11-27-2009, 04:13 PM
Actually the G-spot isn't very deep in the vaginal canal. In most women its about 2 inches or so deep on the front side of canal, best located by making a 45 degree angle from the clitoris to the inside of the canal. It is best found by reaching up and slightly in until a small bump of a slightly more rough texture than the surrounding tissue can be felt. It can be stimulated most effectively with a "come hither" motion of the index and middle or middle and ring fingers of some thoughtful person with access permissions.
MMMmmm ain't nothin like dem textbook facts to get me off good.
Sorry...but as much as both science and you would like to pretend that G-spots and other feminine functions are empirically evident....well...it ain't the case. Just sayin'.
Golden_Rule
11-27-2009, 08:36 PM
But has anyone mentioned the G spot yet? They sure do exist, and they sure are important, and they sure aren't the same as a clitoris. Though I have noticed they are way easier to find and/or way more important with some women than others.
http://forum.stripperweb.com/showpost.php?p=1874501&postcount=233
Golden_Rule
11-27-2009, 08:39 PM
MMMmmm ain't nothin like dem textbook facts to get me off good.
Sorry...but as much as both science and you would like to pretend that G-spots and other feminine functions are empirically evident....well...it ain't the case. Just sayin'.
I'm keeping it clinical because I wasn't trying to get anyone off. I thought this was an intellectual discussion?
I'm not telling you what to believe or belittling those beliefs. I am just posting what I know from a combination of my own study [and being good at sex requires study just like being good at anything else] and personal experience. Just saying'. :)
Djoser
11-27-2009, 10:51 PM
Glad to see it's been mentioned. Which reminds me...
One of the most ridiculous of all the common myths about women perpetuated by men (as opposed to the myths about men told by women lol), it makes me fucking cringe whenever I hear it: "They're all alike in the dark"
Nothing could be further from the truth! I have seen an amazing variety, and not just as far as appearance goes, I mean the reaction to what is going on. My second SO was amazing in that respect, like a flower blooming in time lapse movies, one of the most beautiful sights I have ever seen. And she had the Spot, there was no denying that, especially before and during the squirting. You could not miss it. Though it was attention to the clitoris that got her going at first and made her 'push out' like that. But then she liked attention there too, so I guess she was capable of both kinds of 'O's.
I was literally pussy-whipped for a while there, but I got over it, and embarked on a quest for the Holy Grail--or rather, another one lol. Since then I have seen (and felt) some amazing things, but she was pretty special.
Golden_Rule
11-27-2009, 11:11 PM
Glad to see it's been mentioned. Which reminds me...
One of the most ridiculous of all the common myths about women perpetuated by men (as opposed to the myths about men told by women lol), it makes me fucking cringe whenever I hear it: "They're all alike in the dark"
Agreed. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I have seen an amazing variety, and not just as far as appearance goes, I mean the reaction to what is going on. My second SO was amazing in that respect, like a flower blooming in time lapse movies, one of the most beautiful sights I have ever seen. And she had the Spot, there was no denying that, especially before and during the squirting. You could not miss it. Though it was attention to the clitoris that got her going at first and made her 'push out' like that. But then she liked attention there too, so I guess she was capable of both kinds of 'O's.
Also agreed. I was a swinger for a couple of decades and had many lovers - and in the type of swinging I did we had relationships, our lovers were friends not just causal sex partners [though I did a limited amount of that Plato's style sex club stuff too early on -some of it in Plato's].
I've known/know a lot of women. I won't say how many because I already get kicked around a bit for simply being honest about partaking of the occasional extra [I'm a sexual creature, so sue me]. I'll just say I've known enough to know that they are all different and mostly wonderful.
Since then I have seen (and felt) some amazing things, but she was pretty special.
I am happy you have had the chance to experience amazing things and known at least one someone special. So many aren't that adventurous.
The current, and very much the last, Mrs G_R is such a woman. Wonderful and I can honestly say the best lover I have ever had. Its over 12 years now and I am still truly am ga-ga about her. The only reason I still partake in the rare extra is I got so use to variety at a young age and haven't quite figured out how to turn it off entirely. Perhaps a short-coming on my part. I'm at least open to that interpretation of it. Still... :)
JayATee
11-28-2009, 12:41 PM
How can you be so sure of that?
Okay, I won't argue with that, but that comment requires further explanation. What is your "version of sex" and why is it opposite to mine?
I don't have just one "version of sex," I have several depending on the circumstances. I can be traditional, "vanilla" and "romantic" or I can venture out some. I have experimented with some moderate BDSM and fetishism. Nothing too insane - but, this doesn't mean I'll never try the insane shit... just saying...
Your "version" of sex is entirely romanticized. Even your hardcore version of sex starts off with a movie (albeit a horror movie but still).
mediocrity
11-28-2009, 02:18 PM
Agreed. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Also agreed. I was a swinger for a couple of decades and had many lovers - and in the type of swinging I did we had relationships, our lovers were friends not just causal sex partners [though I did a limited amount of that Plato's style sex club stuff too early on -some of it in Plato's].
I've known/know a lot of women. I won't say how many because I already get kicked around a bit for simply being honest about partaking of the occasional extra [I'm a sexual creature, so sue me]. I'll just say I've known enough to know that they are all different and mostly wonderful.
I am happy you have had the chance to experience amazing things and known at least one someone special. So many aren't that adventurous.
The current, and very much the last, Mrs G_R is such a woman. Wonderful and I can honestly say the best lover I have ever had. Its over 12 years now and I am still truly am ga-ga about her. The only reason I still partake in the rare extra is I got so use to variety at a young age and haven't quite figured out how to turn it off entirely. Perhaps a short-coming on my part. I'm at least open to that interpretation of it. Still... :)
Wow, so cheating your spouse that you claim to love is ok if it's rare?
You, GR, are a piece of work.
Elvia
11-28-2009, 02:54 PM
All these people talking about happily betraying and cheating on their partners around here is really getting depressing.
I know! WTF is up???!!!!
"I love her so much, she is so special and wonderful...... but I still pay cheap hookers for sex on the side"
I am confused. If I was in love with man (which I have been before) I wouldn't feel the need to even glance at another guy. Why would I ever want to risk hurting someone that I genuinely care about? I would feel so dirty and hate myself if I cheated, I wouldn't be able to look him the eye, no way. I just can't wrap my mind around this guys..... I don't think any of you really know what love is.
mediocrity
11-28-2009, 03:37 PM
^^ I know. I would feel such guilt thinking about how bad it would hurt my SO if they ever knew.
Cheating is cheating yo. Even if it's only once or twice a year. Great husband. Maybe I should give you a golf clap because you only "rarely" cheat on your wife behind her back instead of being blatant about it.
Elvia
11-28-2009, 05:41 PM
It's really disheartening how so many people seem to have this attitude of "what they don't know won't hurt them." So basically, you can do whatever you want to a person as long as they don't find out about it? huh?
A violation is still a violation, a betrayal is still a betrayal.
Earl_the_Pearl
11-28-2009, 05:42 PM
I don't think any of you really know what love is.
Love is what one buys in a SC. :puckerup:
charlie61
11-28-2009, 06:08 PM
I know! WTF is up???!!!!
"I love her so much, she is so special and wonderful...... but I still pay cheap hookers for sex on the side"
I am confused. If I was in love with man (which I have been before) I wouldn't feel the need to even glance at another guy. Why would I ever want to risk hurting someone that I genuinely care about? I would feel so dirty and hate myself if I cheated, I wouldn't be able to look him the eye, no way. I just can't wrap my mind around this guys..... I don't think any of you really know what love is.
I wouldn't cheat.
However, I do understand loving someone and wanting other people. I'm very much like a guy in this way. I'm in love with my SO...and very very very happy with him in every way. Yet I still have physical attractions to other people. Which is why our relationship is non-monogamous (with full disclosure required).
So I don't understand the cheating, but I do understand dichotomous desire.
Elvia
11-28-2009, 06:29 PM
^^^ agreed. there's nothing wrong with non-monogamy, so long as everyone involved knows and agrees on it.
Djoser
11-28-2009, 09:03 PM
^^^ agreed. there's nothing wrong with non-monogamy, so long as everyone involved knows and agrees on it.
Exactly. I have read way more posts and threads here over the years, written by dancer and customer members alike, talking about cheating in terms like 'what they don't know won't hurt them' or 'oh well I was horny and he/she was fuckin hot so I did it.' Too bad it just happens sometimes I guess--but lying to your SO is not good at all.
Vyanka
11-28-2009, 09:08 PM
Some guys don't know how to do shit right. I found my g-spot orgasm through masterbation. Never thought I could've gotten a g-spot orgasm.
mediocrity
11-29-2009, 02:34 PM
Exactly. I have read way more posts and threads here over the years, written by dancer and customer members alike, talking about cheating in terms like 'what they don't know won't hurt them' or 'oh well I was horny and he/she was fuckin hot so I did it.' Too bad it just happens sometimes I guess--but lying to your SO is not good at all.
Notice how those in question do absolutely nothing to defend their position.
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-29-2009, 03:06 PM
Sometimes, for purposes of self-flagellation...I will read the casual encounters section of CraigsList, and read how many married people are looking for tail on the side. You know, stuff like "wife's in bed, I need a BJ. You must host". It just makes me so angry, don't know why I do it, but I just do. Helps one keep perspective on the ugly reality.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 03:33 PM
Wow, so cheating your spouse that you claim to love is ok if it's rare?
You, GR, are a piece of work.
I didn't say that. Didn't say that at all. In fact what I said was:
"The only reason I still partake in the rare extra is I got so use to variety at a young age and haven't quite figured out how to turn it off entirely. Perhaps a short-coming on my part. I'm at least open to that interpretation of it. Still... "
Where I as much as admit it is a short coming. Though like many who would publicly admit negative things about themselves I use "soft" language to express it in an attempt to be kind to myself.
The above can easily be paraphrased as: I developed what I acknowledge most people would identify as a bad habit young and haven't figured out how to change.
Why is it that so frequently I write "red" but you read "blue"? And why so rude about how you express your disdain?
Oh hypocrite thou words are harsh but damn you far more than they do myself.
You do know that the social norms of our society would consider almost everything a dancer does in a strip-club, even if it is simply allowing her naked [or nearly naked] form to be admired by men other than their S.O., to be cheating? Ask most people if they think giving lap dances is cheating? I think, if you are honest, you'd have to admit most would say it is. Such people would readily turn that "you are a piece of work" comment on you. [Let me quickly emphasis *I* don't feel that way but simply pointing out the obvious that the majority of people do, especially non-dancing/stripping women - then again I don't throw stones from inside my own glass house].
I'd hope someone that had chosen to be a dancer/stripper and thus made choices that, in regard to relationships, most closed minded souls would be rather unkind about would be a little more open minded themselves.
Like I said, I can hope.
All these people talking about happily betraying and cheating on their partners around here is really getting depressing.
Who said I was happy about it? [to be honest I have felt happy, upset with myself, or just numb about it at various times]
Please see above. It applies equally to yourself.
Elvia
11-29-2009, 03:43 PM
Oh hypocrite thou words are harsh but damn you far more than they do myself.
You do know that the social norms of our society would consider almost everything a dancer does in a strip-club, even if it is simply allowing her naked [or nearly naked] form to be admired by men other than their S.O., to be cheating? Ask most people if they think giving lap dances is cheating? I think, if you are honest, you'd have to admit most would say it is. Such people would readily turn that "you are a piece of work" comment on you. [Let me quickly emphasis *I* don't feel that way but simply pointing out the obvious that the majority of people do, especially non-dancing/stripping women - then again I don't throw stones from inside my own glass house].
I'd hope someone that had chosen to be a dancer/stripper and thus made choices that, in regard to relationships, most closed minded souls would be rather unkind about would be a little more open minded themselves.
Like I said, I can hope.
Who said I was happy about it?
Please see above. It applies equally to yourself.
Not the same thing at all. My partners knew that I danced. I was honest with them and they had the opportunity to make an informed choice as to whether they could accept that and wanted to be with me. You give your wife no such opportunity, but deceive her instead. You made a commitment to fidelity and you disregard it.
Unbelievable. I liked it better when people didn't try to defend continued and blatant mistreatment of their partners.
I also will never understand why people think acknowledging a "shortcoming", while continuing to allow it to go on, is somehow better than not acknowledging it. It always seemed less worse to me. Someone who knows there doing something terrible and continues to do it seems much worse to me than someone who doesn't realize they're doing something terrible.
Elvia
11-29-2009, 03:47 PM
Who said I was happy about it?
I think the smiley face icon at the end kinda suggested it. ::)
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 03:49 PM
I know! WTF is up???!!!!
"I love her so much, she is so special and wonderful...... but I still pay cheap hookers for sex on the side"
I am confused. If I was in love with man (which I have been before) I wouldn't feel the need to even glance at another guy. Why would I ever want to risk hurting someone that I genuinely care about? I would feel so dirty and hate myself if I cheated, I wouldn't be able to look him the eye, no way. I just can't wrap my mind around this guys..... I don't think any of you really know what love is.
^^ I know. I would feel such guilt thinking about how bad it would hurt my SO if they ever knew.
Cheating is cheating yo. Even if it's only once or twice a year. Great husband. Maybe I should give you a golf clap because you only "rarely" cheat on your wife behind her back instead of being blatant about it.
It's really disheartening how so many people seem to have this attitude of "what they don't know won't hurt them." So basically, you can do whatever you want to a person as long as they don't find out about it? huh?
A violation is still a violation, a betrayal is still a betrayal.
The utter hypocrisy of these statements absolutely floors me.
You see things differently than the general public, as do I, about what constitutes "cheating" but your definition, which makes you free of "sin" and use to damn someone like me, is OK but some else's view is wrong?
The GENERAL view on what constitutes cheating takes in just about EVERYTHING that happens in a strip-club. If you are dancing in one and have a boyfriend regardless of what your view on it is personally, or as a couple, according to social norms YOU ARE CHEATING! You are flaunting the social code. Crossing lines. Breaking taboos.
Closed mindedness judging of others by those who would choose not to be judged by society themselves is what it is, plain and simple.
Wow! Just wow.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 03:55 PM
I think the smiley face icon at the end kinda suggested it. ::)
Just plain wrong headed. That would be, in a three dimensional world instead of this flat one in which we dialog, the equivalent of a nervous smile requesting "I know how that sounds but please don't judge me."
Which, of course, you immediately thought you had the right to do regardless of living in a glass house of your own. [again, from the viewpoint of standard social norms]
Elvia
11-29-2009, 03:57 PM
The utter hypocrisy of these statements absolutely floors me.
You see things differently than the general public, as do I, about what constitutes "cheating" but your definition, which makes you free of "sin" and use to damn someone like me, is OK but some else's view is wrong?
The GENERAL view on what constitutes cheating takes in just about EVERYTHING that happens in a strip-club. If you are dancing in one and have a boyfriend regardless of what your view on it is personally, or as a couple, according to social norms YOU ARE CHEATING! You are flaunting the social code. Crossing lines. Breaking taboos.
Closed mindedness judging of others by those who would choose not to be judged by society themselves is what it is, plain and simple.
Wow! Just wow.
This isn't about breaking taboos, this isn't about society. It's about being honest with your partner. Sure, there are couples with open marriages, but if they both agree on it, then no one is being betrayed.
Everyone has different ideas as to what constitutes "cheating." That's why it's important to communicate openly and honestly with your partner, so everyone has the opportunity to know what they're getting into.
Nice attempt at justification though. well, not really.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 04:10 PM
Not the same thing at all. My partners knew that I danced. I was honest with them and they had the opportunity to make an informed choice as to whether they could accept that and wanted to be with me. You give your wife no such opportunity, but deceive her instead. You made a commitment to fidelity and you disregard it.
Agreed to the latter but not the former. As I pointed out the basis of the open mindedness I'd hope for is based on your being someone SOCIETY IN GENERAL would judge harshly. According to how our social rules work PEOPLE would judge YOU to be a cheater based solely on the fact that you work in a strip-club.
So I would hope that someone who experienced such negative treatment themselves would be less likely to judge others based on the very little info I posted about my situation here.
On a scale of 1-10 you know about a 1, if that, about my relationship and whats involved in it. Just like someone who would judge whether you were a cheater based solely on knowing you are a stripper.
Like I said, I could hope to be treated by someone like yourself the way you'd choose to be treated yourself but I apparently, in your case, can't expect same.
Than again if I went only by what you have written here I would find you to be so golden rule challenged that I shouldn't be surprised that would be the case.
Unbelievable. I liked it better when people didn't try to defend continued and blatant mistreatment of their partners.
And there is more I write one thing you read another BS. Quote me where I defend cheating. The only two things I've said about my own behavior is that I do cheat, though try to keep it rare, and that I see it as a short coming.
I also will never understand why people think acknowledging a "shortcoming", while continuing to allow it to go on, is somehow better than not acknowledging it.
Again quote me back where I said any such thing.
They only thing I said in that regard is given the company present I would hope not to be judged, since "golden rule" type behavior would suggest that people who themselves wouldn't want to be judged my society at large for being sex workers and their clients might be kinder on the topic than the general population.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 04:19 PM
This isn't about breaking taboos, this isn't about society. It's about being honest with your partner. Sure, there are couples with open marriages, but if they both agree on it, then no one is being betrayed.
Everyone has different ideas as to what constitutes "cheating." That's why it's important to communicate openly and honestly with your partner, so everyone has the opportunity to know what they're getting into.
Nice attempt at justification though. well, not really.
That isn't how I framed the original argument for why I would expect open-mindedness from this collection of individuals. You can try to change the parameters if you want but it does nothing to address what I put forth. Simply that people who are regularly judged negatively by others for some small tidbit someone thinks they know about them [that they are a stripper in your case] might understand how that feels and not do it so readily to others.
But we quickly reach an impasse. Shocked and amazed... ::)
Elvia
11-29-2009, 04:24 PM
I really don't think my being a stripper means I have to respect your cheating on your wife, nor does it mean I can't feel that cheating and lying to your partner is wrong. Sorry. That's apples and oranges.
You may not be "defending" your behavior in the sense that you believe in to be 100% acceptable, but you apparently don't feel the need to stop it. You accept that you will continue to do it sometimes. I don't see how that's justifiable or acceptable. If it's a sexual addiction issue, then there's help available for that. I don't think "I only do it sometimes" is worth much.
It is depressing to read such things. But I suppose it's a good reminder to be careful who you marry. It's a sad truth that there are many people out there who would be willing to deceive you over and over again.
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-29-2009, 04:26 PM
Are you shitting me GR? Do you really believe that getting extras from dancers is the same thing as being a stripper?
Who cares if society places a cheater in the same poor light as a stripper? Fuck em. For the few people who accept us for who we are, isn't it considerate to be honest to them?
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 04:27 PM
...talking about cheating in terms like 'what they don't know won't hurt them' or 'oh well I was horny and he/she was fuckin hot so I did it.' Too bad it just happens sometimes I guess--but lying to your SO is not good at all.
For the record I think it is pretty obvious I am stating neither.
I'd tell my wife if I could but I'd lose her in the process and I don't want to lose her. Nor do I know precisely how to not occasionally have sex with other women. The best I have done in that regard is to make sure it is only commercial sex and not emotionally based. I do not say that makes it OK.
So given the situation of wanting my cake and eating it to I make the selfish choice. I do my utmost to protect her from it, so far successfully, but am not claiming that makes it OK either.
I may lie to others on occasion but I am very honest about me with me. I don't buy into any of my own bullshit. I wish some present here who think their own BS doesn't stink just as bad as any one else's could say the same.
It is what it is though. {Shrugging shoulders}
Elvia
11-29-2009, 04:33 PM
I'd tell my wife if I could but I'd lose her in the process and I don't want to lose her. Nor do I know precisely how to not occasionally have sex with other women. The best I have done in that regard is to make sure it is only commercial sex and not emotionally based. I do not say that makes it OK.
If you want to change your behavior but really find yourself unable to do so, you should look into sexual addiction therapy.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 04:36 PM
Are you shitting me GR? Do you really believe that getting extras from dancers is the same thing as being a stripper?
Please read what I wrote. I specifically stated I think no such thing.
I said society would rule, based in its rules, that stripping if one has an S.O. is cheating. That is not an outlandish statement. In fact it is rather obvious. Do you think that society, in general, wouldn't judge giving lap dances as cheating if one was married, for instance?
Who cares if society places a stripper in the same poor light as a stripper? Fuck em. For the few people who accept us for who we are, isn't it considerate to be honest to them?
And all I asked for was not to be judged too harshly for making bad choices by a group of people who society would deem made bad choices and thus would know what it felt like to be judged.
Like I said though this is quickly becoming a matter of my cheating is cheating and your cheating is not cheating [when taken in the context of social norms in general].
Because YOU say that partners who are open with each other about "cheating" doesn't change society's interpenetration of it.
I don't think you are cheating... I do think I am cheating... but that isn't the point.
The point is the readiness to JUDGE by people who would prefer not to be judged. Doing, with much relish, to someone else what they wouldn't want done to them.
Same old, same old...
KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-29-2009, 04:39 PM
I think you are the one rationalizing. I've cheated, and I've been dead honest with myself. I was shitbag for what I did, not some bullshit like "Nor do I know precisely how to not occasionally have sex with other women."
Everyone knows how to not have sex with other women. You just don't do it. Voila.
Elvia
11-29-2009, 04:39 PM
Like I said though this is quickly becoming a matter of my cheating is cheating and your cheating is not cheating [when taken in the context of social norms in general].
Keep on pretending that's relevant.
charlie61
11-29-2009, 04:41 PM
So GR, you put your wife in danger of having an STI for life (from one of your commercial sex workers)...and you consider that protecting your beloved wife? Aw, how romantic...
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 04:42 PM
If you want to change your behavior but really find yourself unable to do so, you should look into sexual addiction therapy.
The major definition of addiction is whether the behavior is negatively impacting one's life. I am not only highly functional most people, measuring on what they know of me, would think I am above average.
Since I am experiencing no negative effects, quite the contrary, if I am an addict I am one who has not reached a point where there is inducement to change. I am no where near a point of catharsis. Given the number of years involved there is ample evidence to suggest I never will be [though that may be so much whistling past graveyards].
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 04:46 PM
So GR, you put your wife in danger of having an STI for life (from one of your commercial sex workers)...and you consider that protecting your beloved wife? Aw, how romantic...
I only involve myself in low risk acts and get myself tested at least 4 times a year.
That said, it is a matter of attempting to do a selfish thing in as ethical way as possible. A paradox most certainly but one I don't lie to myself about and a situation that hardly makes me unique as far as human beings in general are concerned.
Perhaps even present company included. Though I would know nothing about that either way. I just know that being a person, and subject to all the weaknesses people are subject to, I am not so quick to judge others as others would seem to judge me.
Elvia
11-29-2009, 04:47 PM
The major definition of addiction is whether the behavior is negatively impacting one's life. I am not only highly functional most people, measuring on what they know of me, would think I excel.
Since I am experiencing no negative effects, quite the contrary, if I am an addict I am one who has not reached a point where there is inducement to change. I am no where near a point of catharsis. Given the number of years involved there is ample evidence to suggest I never will be [though that may be so much whistling past graveyards].
You believe your behavior is wrong. You acknowledge it is a betrayal to your wife and you feel bad about it. You acknowledge that it would end in the destruction of your marriage if she found out, and that you do not want that to happen. You want to stop, but "don't know how to." That would qualify as an addiction. There are plenty of "functional" people with addictions.
But maybe you're not an addict. Maybe your just selfish. Given that you say there is "no inducement to change," despite that you know you are doing something wrong and betraying someone you claim to love, I'd say that's a distinct possibility.
charlie61
11-29-2009, 04:49 PM
I only involve myself in low risk acts and get myself test at least 4 times a year.
That said, it is a matter of attempting to do a selfish thing in as ethical way as possible. A paradox most certainly but one I don't lie to myself about and a situation that hardly makes me unique as far as human beings in general are concerned.
Perhaps even present company included. Though I would know nothing about that either way. I just know that being a person, and subject to all the weaknesses people are subject to, I am not so quick to judge others as others would seem to judge me.
Some call it selfish, some call it horribly immoral.
How can you look at yourself in the mirror every day? I would lose all self-respect if I had the capacity to do that to someone I'm supposed to 'love'.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 04:50 PM
Keep on pretending that's relevant.
Keep on pretending it isn't.
We can do this all evening.
You think you are right. I think I am right.
The MAJOR difference is that you are willing to use that perception of correctness to judge someone else where I am not.
I wonder, if there is a God, which one of us will find heaven. }:D
Elvia
11-29-2009, 05:00 PM
Some call it selfish, some call it horribly immoral.
How can you look at yourself in the mirror every day? I would lose all self-respect if I had the capacity to do that to someone I'm supposed to 'love'.
It takes a certain kind of person to continually betray and endanger someone they're supposed to love. With a tremendous capacity for denial.
But, as I said, a great reminder to be careful who you marry, folks. That person who you trust with your life might not really care all that much. Or have serious, uncontrollable problems.
I hope you get help, Gr. And that you someday find within yourself the ability to treat your wife as...well...how you would probably like to be treated.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 05:02 PM
I think you are the one rationalizing. I've cheated, and I've been dead honest with myself. I was shitbag for what I did, not some bullshit like "Nor do I know precisely how to not occasionally have sex with other women."
Everyone knows how to not have sex with other women. You just don't do it. Voila.
I don't believe in guilt. I believe in fairness. I believe in treating others as I would want to be treated. That is my moral code and compass. The only issue I have with any of the whole thing is the lie as I would readily allow my wife to do precisely what I am doing. The problem is that if I choose to be honest the penalty is that I lose my wife, which I am unwilling to do.
Absent guilt*, which I told you I don't experience in this case as I am not doing anything against my moral code [the sex part at least] the problem becomes simple social algebra. I solve for the problem to fit a subset of parameters that gets me as much joy out of life as I can get while causing as little harm in the process.
As I stated that hardly makes me unique. In fact it is a very human attribute.
*I can feel guilt, but at this point in my life I know enough about myself to know what makes me feel guilty and what doesn't. If it is something I couldn't live with I wouldn't do it. So I feel no guilt because I don't do things that make me feel guilty.
So if you want to judge me for not feeling guilt about the occasional happy ending or blow job feel free, but be prepared to be open to being judged yourself for what others would feel your short-comings are and acknowledge you, by your choices, leave lots of rooms for others to cast stones based on their perceptions of your behavior.
For me its all just so much water off a ducks ass.
Elvia
11-29-2009, 05:04 PM
I don't believe in guilt. I believe in fairness. I believe in treating others as I would want to be treated. That is my moral code and compass. The only issue I have with any of the whole thing is the lie as I would readily allow my wife to do precisely what I am doing. The problem is that if I choose to be honest the penalty is that I lose my wife, which I am unwilling to do.
Absent guilt*, which I told you I don't experience in this case as I am not doing anything against my moral code [the sex part at least] the problem becomes simple social algebra. I solve for the problem to fit a subset of parameters that gets me as much joy out of life as I can get while causing as little harm in the process.
As I stated that hardly makes me unique. In fact it is a very human attribute.
*I can feel guilt, but at this point in my life I know enough about myself to know what makes me feel guilty and what doesn't. If it is something I couldn't live with I wouldn't do it. So I feel no guilt because I don't do things that make me feel guilty.
So if you want to judge me for not feeling guilt about the occasional happy ending or blow job feel free, but be prepared to be open to being judged yourself for what others would feel your short-comings are and acknowledge you, by your choices, leave lots of rooms for others to cast stones based on their perceptions of your behavior.
For me its all just so much water off a ducks ass.
Wow. This is truly scary.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 05:06 PM
It takes a certain kind of person to continually betray and endanger someone they're supposed to love. With a tremendous capacity for denial.
You truly are a piece of work...
... and funnier in the total lack of any ability to see just how hypocritical your statements are... but I digress.
I've made my case. It stands for what it is and others can ponder it in depth, or not, as they desire.
I am a humanist and I don't judge others for being as human, for the better or worst of it, as I am. Nor does it concern me if they do the equally human thing of judging others they are no better than simply because for some strange reason they perceive themselves to be so.
In other words, my shit stinks but no worse than anyone else's.
Wow. This is truly scary.
You do know I have said the same thing to myself about any number of thing things I've seen you write here.;D
Elvia
11-29-2009, 05:11 PM
Actually, people that treat their loved ones with respect and honesty...probably don't "stink" as much as those that don't. A sentiment you often pretend, it would seem, to understand. Good luck.
mediocrity
11-29-2009, 05:23 PM
For the record I think it is pretty obvious I am stating neither.
I'd tell my wife if I could but I'd lose her in the process and I don't want to lose her. Nor do I know precisely how to not occasionally have sex with other women. The best I have done in that regard is to make sure it is only commercial sex and not emotionally based. I do not say that makes it OK.
So given the situation of wanting my cake and eating it to I make the selfish choice. I do my utmost to protect her from it, so far successfully, but am not claiming that makes it OK either.
I may lie to others on occasion but I am very honest about me with me. I don't buy into any of my own bullshit. I wish some present here who think their own BS doesn't stink just as bad as any one else's could say the same.
It is what it is though. {Shrugging shoulders}
So you lie to her AND fuck around on her? Doesn't sound like employing the Golden Rule to me. Sounds like you are compromising her beliefs on the terms of your relationship.
Oh and hypocrisy? I tell every man I date ON THE FIRST DATE what I do so they can determine if they can accept it or not. I am very honest about it. And I do air dances. So if they are ok with my dancing and choose to be with me, that's their choice. It's not like I am betraying anyone because it's a common ground.
Now if I dated a guy and didn't tell him for months, and then told him- then you can feel free to call me a hypocrite.
I have no respect for a man who cheats on his wife.
Elvia
11-29-2009, 05:28 PM
You do know I have said the same thing to myself about any number of thing things I've seen you write here.;D
I do. And now that I understand your issues, it's hard to be mad or even annoyed by it.
Elvia
11-29-2009, 05:35 PM
I have no respect for a man who cheats on his wife.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to.
It's things like this that scare me away from marriage. I mean, how do you ever really know what you're getting? It's so easy to think you know your partner, but obviously, a lot of them are wrong. G's wife probably has no idea. How horrifying would it be if it was your husband saying stuff like that? You could think you've met the most honest, faithful guy on the planet, and then it turns out they've been cheating on you for years. Even more frightening to think this is probably a person you're having unprotected sex with.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 05:35 PM
I really don't think my being a stripper means I have to respect your cheating on your wife, nor does it mean I can't feel that cheating and lying to your partner is wrong.
Missed this and it is important so I address it now.
No one, least of all me, says you need to respect anything someone else does. I don't see the sex as wrong as I would readily accept my wife doing anything I am doing.
The lying is wrong but it is something I partake in the same as all human beings on this planet, as I know of no single individual who doesn't lie sometimes to get what they want or need. I'd wager even the Dali Lama has done so. So the best I can do is try to keep the knowledge of my lies from hurting anyone, and this I endeavor to do and have so far done successfully.
The thing I try not to do is judge others for their human frailties so readily, as I would choose not to be so easily judged for my own. I acknowledge that is NOT something many people do. Most people judge all to readily.
I do. And now that I understand your issues, it's hard to be mad or even annoyed by it.
Thank you for so eloquently proving my point.
You know so little about me, but know all about "my issues". You don't judge too easily... not you. No. {LOL}
Elvia
11-29-2009, 05:44 PM
Somehow, I find myself ok with being accused of "judging" people for continually betraying and endangering the people they profess to love.
Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 05:53 PM
So you lie to her AND fuck around on her? Doesn't sound like employing the Golden Rule to me. Sounds like you are compromising her beliefs on the terms of your relationship.
Oh and hypocrisy? I tell every man I date ON THE FIRST DATE what I do so they can determine if they can accept it or not. I am very honest about it. And I do air dances. So if they are ok with my dancing and choose to be with me, that's their choice. It's not like I am betraying anyone because it's a common ground.
Now if I dated a guy and didn't tell him for months, and then told him- then you can feel free to call me a hypocrite.
I have no respect for a man who cheats on his wife.
Once again what part of what I said is being missed.
I fully acknowledged that while the sex is fair as I'd accept any part of that on my wife's part that I do myself.
I acknowledged that the lying part is paradoxical to my ethical beliefs at best and morally challenging.
I acknowledged I do it for purely selfish reasons.
My only argument, though it is one that continues to fail to be addressed by the handful of judgmental souls present, is that: I base my request not to be so harshly judged as I would bet everything I own that no one present here is without sin and casting of stones is therefore a non-meritorious and a hypocritical act.
I asked not to be quickly judged on little information by people who ought to know what that feels like and therefore ought to be the ones least likely to do it to others.
I know people for what they are though and didn't expect all that much. That doesn't mean one can't hope for better [including from myself]. And who knows, someday we might all surprise each other.