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Pretty_Penny
11-05-2009, 08:58 AM
As I have stated before, this is exactly the understanding I have with my friends when I'm in the club so I don't get what your point is other than to try to antagonize.


By friends do you mean dancers? Are you saying you still go to clubs, but you don't tip the dancers anymore?

bem401
11-05-2009, 09:38 AM
By friends do you mean dancers? Are you saying you still go to clubs, but you don't tip the dancers anymore?

Yes, dancers. There are a few girls I have developed RL friendships with over the years who will sit with me when there is no money to be made. The only interaction they will have with me is to sit and chill and maybe have a drink ( I generally offer, they don't always accept). They would not do dances with me if I asked. One's regular tried to buy me a dance with her and she refused. Another has asked me not to come to the stage when she's there. I honestly think they might be offended were I to give them money in the club.

I agree with you that it would be rude to expect anything for free. I do no such thing, nor do I recall anyone else saying they did. If I have time in my day, I might stop in. If my friends have time in their shift, they'll stop by, but there are no expectations one way or another. Nobody here is complaining.

Pretty_Penny
11-05-2009, 10:59 AM
^if you're there, talking to them, watching them dance naked (even from afar), you are, IMO being extremely rude. They will tell you they don't think so, but they are lying. I can almost 100% promise you that. We have guys like you, who come into the club and sit with the same girls every time. They never spend any money and the girls sit there and talk to them until their regulars or some other customer comes in. These customers all refer to the girls as their "friends".. they've known them for years..etc.

And every one of those girls bitches in the back about how so-and-so is a "cheap ass" and how they're just "really bored" so they sit with him. Or they say "he's fun to talk to, but I wish he'd pay me" or "I don't understand why he likes me but he doesn't pay me"

So, YOU may not think they are complaining... but they are.

Also, I would not be surprised if that girl refused to dance for you when her regular offered based on the fact that she didn't want you to get it for free. She may have said "oh, it'd be WEIRD if I danced for you/you're a friend" but what she meant was "He never spends any of his own money, I don't want my regular to spend money on him while he gets a dance from me for free".

Of course, I could very well be wrong. But, If I am.. you will be the one and only case of a customer I have EVER heard of, who spends NO MONEY and is adored by the girls who sit with him.

Pretty_Penny
11-05-2009, 11:07 AM
To put in another perspective:

Would you go to a bar, where a friend of your tends.. maybe gives you some free drinks.. or pours real strong for you.. etc, and not tip him?

Would you go to a restaurant where a friend of yours is a waiter, sit at their table, and then not tip him?

Doesn't sound like a good friend to me.

mediocrity
11-05-2009, 01:38 PM
Yes, dancers. There are a few girls I have developed RL friendships with over the years who will sit with me when there is no money to be made. The only interaction they will have with me is to sit and chill and maybe have a drink ( I generally offer, they don't always accept). They would not do dances with me if I asked. One's regular tried to buy me a dance with her and she refused. Another has asked me not to come to the stage when she's there. I honestly think they might be offended were I to give them money in the club.

I agree with you that it would be rude to expect anything for free. I do no such thing, nor do I recall anyone else saying they did. If I have time in my day, I might stop in. If my friends have time in their shift, they'll stop by, but there are no expectations one way or another. Nobody here is complaining.

Dude, my friend Rob came in last night and gave me $60 for sitting with him for an hour while his buddy finished up in VIP. And he got me drunk.

I like you bem, but you're losing me on this one.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-05-2009, 02:20 PM
How about a shopping trip where I drive and sit and wait for hours while you try on cloths and ask how does this look? BTW this is not at Sears or Wal*Mart. I love the looks I get from the sales girls. Do you?

I also wait while you try on makeup and ask how does this look. I say fine as I can only think of the night of unbridled passion that is to come.

That is what friends are for.

I don't like shopping with other people. I like to get what I need and go. And if I am browsing and trying out a bunch of different things, I feel bad that my friend has to sit there and watch, bored. And I would hope for the same with others, I don't like shopping with them.

If you're paying, then I'll just take the cash, thank you. Will probably put it in the bank, and wear something I've had for years on our "night of passion."

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-05-2009, 02:27 PM
I know, for a fact, that these girls can barely tolerate BEM. Pretty_Penny, I wish I could hit on the thank you button several more times for you!

mediocrity
11-05-2009, 03:08 PM
I don't like shopping with other people. I like to get what I need and go. And if I am browsing and trying out a bunch of different things, I feel bad that my friend has to sit there and watch, bored. And I would hope for the same with others, I don't like shopping with them.

If you're paying, then I'll just take the cash, thank you. Will probably put it in the bank, and wear something I've had for years on our "night of passion."

A night of passion with Earl is probably a few viagra, a sea of white pubes and five minutes.

JayATee
11-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Funny.



Funnier.



Funniest.

Why not mention they should look like Brad Pitt while you're at it?

Seriously, how many of these guys do you actually meet in a year?

Well you just proved what kind of customer you are!

mediocrity
11-05-2009, 03:28 PM
There is a girl who works at the front of my hotel's gym; she is astonishingly beautiful. Yesterday after an intensive work out, as I was walking out of the gym, I decided I must talk to her. I am married so pickup was not the intention on my part. I just wanted to talk to her. So, I turned towards her. She was looking down, smiling. Then, she looked up. Our eyes locked. We stood there smiling at each other for few seconds. None of us said anything.

Then, I asked. "How do you do?" (I know, no one uses that line anymore.)

She said. "Fine. And, you?"

I said. "I am quite well. Thanks for asking!"

Her sweetness was radiating. I felt very comfortable talking to her. She asked me where I was from, what I did, etc. We talked for half an hour. And, it did not cost me a dime.

She breaks the scale calibrated at 1-10.

I picture you as an ugly version of Patrick Bateman.

Caprica6
11-05-2009, 06:49 PM
I don't know where you work, but there are plenty of places where contact is not part of the job and is considered an extra. You should try working in one of them.

Also, I think it's a little disturbing that you say you'd get self conscious if dudes stopped trying to grope you in favor of talking to you. Is it really better to be seen as a fuck doll than a charming, funny, intelligent woman? Anybody can be a fuck doll. That's not something you should tie your sense of self worth to.

I think you are intentionally misreading my post, either because you are ignorant or you're just an idiot. Maybe both.

I said that a guy who only wants to sit and chat, and wants no contact whatsoever with me would make me feel odd. I'm not there to be a counselor, I'm there to wiggle at you and get money for it. I not once said I want to be groped or poked or prodded. I go in expecting to do a certain job, and sitting on my ass flapping my gums would make me feel like I'm just wasting space.

Read into that however you like, but I recommend face value.

Edit: ^^^ Are you implying Christian Bale has an ugly side? That's almost blasphemy, man...

mediocrity
11-05-2009, 07:08 PM
^^ Yeah but you can't begrudge the fact that it is way easier to deal with the talky customers than be touched. I personally, am not into being touched by strangers, and thus don't consider it part of my job.

nicole84
11-05-2009, 07:22 PM
I'll take playing 'counselor' any night over giving lap dances.

chris91
11-05-2009, 07:40 PM
I think you are intentionally misreading my post, either because you are ignorant or you're just an idiot. Maybe both.

Ouch. Burn. ::)



I said that a guy who only wants to sit and chat, and wants no contact whatsoever with me would make me feel odd. I'm not there to be a counselor, I'm there to wiggle at you and get money for it. I not once said I want to be groped or poked or prodded. I go in expecting to do a certain job, and sitting on my ass flapping my gums would make me feel like I'm just wasting space.

Yes, I read what you wrote. Girls who want to be paid to talk should be counselors, not stripper, because contact is part of stripping. I'm saying physical contact is not part of the job in many clubs, but "flapping my gums" is. You would feel self concious if dudes started coming in looking for conversation instead of physical contact. I'm saying that strangers wanting to touch you is not a reflection of your value, and you shouldn't allow it to make you feel bad. I was trying to be nice, given your obviously fragile ego, but if you want to get dirty, I can do that too.

I would think you'd feel bad if nobody wanted to talk to you, either because you're stupid or a just a bitch. Maybe both.




Read into that however you like, but I recommend face value.

Edit: ^^^ Are you implying Christian Bale has an ugly side? That's almost blasphemy, man...

I wasn't trying to to imply that anyone had an ugly side, and I honestly don't know where you got that from.

chris91
11-05-2009, 07:50 PM
under what scenario can you see yourself paying someone to hang out with you? My dancer friends have all indicated to me that while they're happy to have guys do this, they would never want to hang around with someone who would only spend time with them if they were being paid.

I suppose that if I were really bored, traveling, had plenty of money, and there were a male version of strippers, I might pay one of them to drink with me. Of course, I'm awesome, so I'd be sure that the dude liked hanging out with me. ;D

In reality, I'll probably never pay anyone to hang out with me. I'll probably never buy a minivan either, but I can certainly see why someone else would.

yoda57us
11-05-2009, 08:52 PM
I just fail to see the need to pay anyone for company. If you can get someone to do this, more power to you, but let me ask this : under what scenario can you see yourself paying someone to hang out with you? My dancer friends have all indicated to me that while they're happy to have guys do this, they would never want to hang around with someone who would only spend time with them if they were being paid.

BEM, you have demonstrated repeatedly here that you don't go to strip clubs because they are strip clubs so I have to ask....Do you understand why anyone one would do anything in a strip club other than what you do (which, as near as I can tell, is nothing)? Why is it relevant what you or your friends would or would not do outside of the strip club environment? It is what men do inside a strip club that is relevant in this thread and on this site in general.

Earl_the_Pearl
11-05-2009, 10:29 PM
Awww...Cyril and Earl, the new Harold and Kumar. You boys should plan a road trip. Let Cyril drive the 'stang and loan him a magnum.
The trip would be to Paterson, Newark and Irvington and it will be in my van. Stick shift stiff suspension cars are not happy in cities and we will need room for several "dates". :party2:

Earl_the_Pearl
11-05-2009, 10:37 PM
I'll probably never buy a minivan either, but I can certainly see why someone else would.

~~~
:wave:
~~~

Golden_Rule
11-05-2009, 11:19 PM
^^Are you sure you don't want to go down that road again? Cause it kind of seems like you do.

Someone misspoke my position. I'm suppose to let people think I go around "telling strippers how evil and immoral we are for taking men's money."

That's not what I said at all.



It also bothers me when people say strippers "take" people's money. When your civilian job cuts you a paycheck, or when a waitress recieves a tip, is that "taking" money? No. It's is being PAID.

Just for the record I don't disagree with the above at all and nothing I've said should be taken to mean the above isn't correct.

Phil-W
11-06-2009, 03:20 AM
Ah, the good old debate about guys who are friends or "friends" with dancers rumbles on.....

I think we have to recognize that people have different motivations. For example some dancers are totally earnings orientated and grudge every lost opportunity to earn money. Other dancers are not so driven, and occasionally like a break from hustling.

The two types of dancers will view things differently. For the money orientated dancer anyone that comes into the club and doesn't want to spend is a waste of space. For the less driven dancer, someone who she can sit and chat to for 15 minutes might represent a better alternative to going back to the dressing room for a break.

Even the the dancer may view the 'sit and chat' customer in different ways - they could be a cheap skate who represents a marginally better alternative to the dressing room or they could be someone who the dancer genuinely likes - who knows.

I'll give you a real life scenario: once a month a dancer I know works in a venue she finds a bit stressful to work at. Normally, she would go down using public transport and I would turn up about an hour before the end of her shift. I'll buy her a drink or two and she'll come over and chat when she feels like it. I'll then give her a lift home.

Now later this month, she's asked me to drive her down and stay for the full length of the shift because she fells better if I'm around to talk to.

During that time I won't tip her (because she'd feel offended if I did - nor will I pay any attention to her dancing) but I will willingly tip any of the other dancers on the shift that want to be tipped. (Looking on the website as to who's working on that day, one other dancer won't want to be - she'll just come over for a chat and to cadge a drink).

I won't buy any lap dances because frankly I'm not interested in doing so - the only reason I'm in the place for the full length of the shift is at the explicit request of a dancer.

So does that make me hero (helping out a dancer) or villain (not buying dances)?

Phil.

bem401
11-06-2009, 07:02 AM
^if you're there, talking to them, watching them dance naked (even from afar), you are, IMO being extremely rude. They will tell you they don't think so, but they are lying. I can almost 100% promise you that. We have guys like you, who come into the club and sit with the same girls every time. They never spend any money and the girls sit there and talk to them until their regulars or some other customer comes in. These customers all refer to the girls as their "friends".. they've known them for years..etc.

And every one of those girls bitches in the back about how so-and-so is a "cheap ass" and how they're just "really bored" so they sit with him. Or they say "he's fun to talk to, but I wish he'd pay me" or "I don't understand why he likes me but he doesn't pay me"

So, YOU may not think they are complaining... but they are.

I will ask them if this is the case. FTR, on those very rare occasions when I do visit the stage, I tip generously while she just sits with me. The only difference between the stage and the bar is her top would probably be off at the stage. this is the only attention I really ever pay to the stage, so I'm never watching them from afar, other than to see if they're being ignored and maybe would appreciate some company. They have also made it clear they'd rather I not visit the stage when they are there.




Also, I would not be surprised if that girl refused to dance for you when her regular offered based on the fact that she didn't want you to get it for free. She may have said "oh, it'd be WEIRD if I danced for you/you're a friend" but what she meant was "He never spends any of his own money, I don't want my regular to spend money on him while he gets a dance from me for free".

Of course, I could very well be wrong. But, If I am.. you will be the one and only case of a customer I have EVER heard of, who spends NO MONEY and is adored by the girls who sit with him.

Actually that same girl had a standing offer from me to do a dance with her anytime she'd had a bad day as I was generally there towards the end of her shift. She seldom ( a couple of times a year) took advantage of that. I noticed a few slow days when she didn't ask and reminded her of the offer. She said she'd just as soon keep our interactions out of the dance room, regardless of how bad her day was. She is, however, considered to be among the top earners in the entire city, so I don't think she ever really needed my help. It was only when I told one of her customers that she wouldn't dance for me that he decided to see if this was true.

I also never said anything about being adored. We are friends ITC and IRL. I never said such friendships are common ( they're not) but this is what has developed in the case of the few dancers I consider friends and myself. It was never anything planned nor is it my strategy regarding other dancers. As far as tipping my friends is concerned, I'm quite sure they would be offended if I gave them money for sitting with me.

bem401
11-06-2009, 07:23 AM
To put in another perspective:

Would you go to a bar, where a friend of your tends.. maybe gives you some free drinks.. or pours real strong for you.. etc, and not tip him?

Would you go to a restaurant where a friend of yours is a waiter, sit at their table, and then not tip him?

Doesn't sound like a good friend to me.

Not a good analogy. My friends are at work, but they're not working for me nor are they providing any service to me. They do not even have to acknowledge my presence if they choose. Oh and they ( and other ) dancers do occasionally visit a bar I sometimes manage. I take very good care of them, just like my non-stripper friends, and expect nothing special in return.

One now-retired dancer who refused to dance for me needed tutoring. I provided hours of tutoring to her. I never expected her to pay me. I've also given golf lessons to dancers or their kids, not for money, but because we were friends and they asked. Not every relationship that arises out of a SC is about money. I conceded though, that most are.

bem401
11-06-2009, 07:30 AM
BEM, you have demonstrated repeatedly here that you don't go to strip clubs because they are strip clubs so I have to ask....Do you understand why anyone one would do anything in a strip club other than what you do (which, as near as I can tell, is nothing)? Why is it relevant what you or your friends would or would not do outside of the strip club environment? It is what men do inside a strip club that is relevant in this thread and on this site in general.

I do understand why people go to stripclubs. I initially was an enthusiastic customer and CR visitor. It just stopped working for me. Paying for company never made any sense to me. If it works for you, run with it. I know the girls appreciate it and I don't begrudge you your enjoyment.

yoda57us
11-06-2009, 09:15 AM
I just fail to see the need to pay anyone for company. If you can get someone to do this, more power to you, but let me ask this : under what scenario can you see yourself paying someone to hang out with you? My dancer friends have all indicated to me that while they're happy to have guys do this, they would never want to hang around with someone who would only spend time with them if they were being paid.


I do understand why people go to stripclubs. I initially was an enthusiastic customer and CR visitor. It just stopped working for me. Paying for company never made any sense to me. If it works for you, run with it. I know the girls appreciate it and I don't begrudge you your enjoyment.

So which is it BEM?

A customer is a customer. It doesn't matter if he is buying dances, tipping at the rail or paying for conversation. If he is in the club and spending money on the dancers then he is a customer.

mediocrity
11-06-2009, 12:35 PM
Read into that however you like, but I recommend face value.

Edit: ^^^ Are you implying Christian Bale has an ugly side? That's almost blasphemy, man...

Christian Bale and Patrick Bateman are certainly not synonymous.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-06-2009, 02:08 PM
. I go in expecting to do a certain job, and sitting on my ass flapping my gums would make me feel like I'm just wasting space.

Read into that however you like, but I recommend face value.
..

Damn girl, you're working too hard. I LOVE to get paid to sit around and talk shit. Then again, I'm a talker, like cracking jokes, sport flirting, celebrity gossip, philosophical and political debate....tons of fun stuff.

What I've noticed, is that they guys who pay you to sit and talk, are usually decent conversationalists, and its easy to find common ground. The shy ones do not get much out of talking, so they go for dances.

Either way, if a customer requests a chat, versus nudity, who am I to not give him what he wants? Its legal and safe.

Are you, by chance, shy and introverted? Because I can see why you wouldn't like to chat if you were.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-06-2009, 02:14 PM
Edit: ^^^ Are you implying Christian Bale has an ugly side? That's almost blasphemy, man...

Errrrr.....he rather does.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvMTv_r8sA

Cyril
11-07-2009, 04:14 PM
I love how the most unappealing guys are always so quick to believe the most crap advice. It works out so well, doesn't it? Kinda makes you feel like maybe the universe really is looking out for all of us :hug:

“There lived a sage in days of yore,

And he a handsome pigtail wore;

But wondered much and sorrowed more

Because it hung behind him.”

- W M Thackray

Cyril
11-07-2009, 04:19 PM
...Cyril, the imaginary befriender of strippers, the desperate for attention adulter? Mrs. Cyril should be the only 10 in your life but, alas, her heart has been broken once again.
"Mat 5:28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."



My wife is very beautiful. And, I think she breaks the scale too. I am grateful she chose to marry me.


"Let He Who is Without Sin Cast the First Stone"

bem401
11-07-2009, 04:21 PM
So which is it BEM?

A customer is a customer. It doesn't matter if he is buying dances, tipping at the rail or paying for conversation. If he is in the club and spending money on the dancers then he is a customer.

When I was a customer, I bought the girls drinks and did dances with them. I did not tip for company beyond that. I would typically go in, buy the girl a drink or two and tell her I'd do a VIP with her at a specific time. She was free to go about her business and return at the appointed time. In both of your quotes of me, I said I never got the whole "tipping for conversation" thing, not then and not now.

As I said, if it works for you, that is all that should matter. It just no longer works for me.

FBR
11-07-2009, 04:43 PM
This thread is going south. A clean up for now.

FBR