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Golden_Rule
11-27-2009, 10:40 PM
I hope we can discuss what I see as an interesting statistical anomaly, which would be the larger than normal percentage of bi-sexuals among dancers, without getting ugly about it.

As I got to know more and more dancers personally through our common work place and/or socially I wondered after a time why there seemed to be such a larger than normal percentage of bi-sexual dancers when compared to women in the general population. Current social scientific numbers put the homosexual population in the US at a ratio of 1:10 individuals. Bi-sexual individuals at even smaller numbers than that, yet it seemed to me that well over 1:4, or 25%, of dancers admitted to some level of bi-sexual behavior.

Having been twenty-five some years in continued observation I've come to the following personal conclusion. This isn't "normal" bi-sexuality. Its environmentally based nurture as opposed to nature.

Women open to changes in sexuality who would rate as almost totally heterosexual on the Kinsey scale before they start working as strippers/dancers "evolve" bi-sexual tendencies after working in strip-clubs for a period of time and for specific, identifiable, reasons.

1a) Men become increasingly less attractive as sexual partners when these women are exposed to their less than desirable traits as strip-club patrons. It becomes more and more difficult to desire a man as a sexual partner when dealing with multiple "sweatpants boner man", etc, for an extended period. The result is an ever more enhanced negative image of the male and greater disdain of them sexually.

1b) Women, in general [with exceptions of course] are attracted to men who are confident and fit standard socio-dynamics for male/female attraction. The image of the "good provider". In the course of stripping/dancing they tend to meet any number of "mousy" men who are neither particularly confident or 'take charge". Too many of the ones who are take it too far and wind up exhibiting bad behavioral patterns they object to and find intolerable. So their overly generalized choices become "the milquetoast" or "the asshole". So in such a combination where they perceive not only the behavioral problems associated with the two types of men in the clubs but also the perception that they make more money than anybody in the room other than the other dancers, making their own kind the best providers they know, you wind up with, in general, men who don't fit the standard mode for female to male attraction.

2) Us against them: The other people in the club, those men they work with [to a limited extent] and the other dancers [to a greater extent] become a community whose measure is taken by the limits the society at large places on them. Feeling stereotyped and to some extent disenfranchised their own number becomes the only place they can feel on equal footing and safer.

Combine the two over time and the taking of these feelings outside the club into their interactions with men in the general population and you have a perfect storm for people whose sexual identity is open to movement and you find a number of them sliding on the scale toward bi-sexuality.

I find in my knowing dancers who are still working who state: "I am sexual with women and not with men at the moment but while I don't have a male partner at this time I wouldn't actually consider "dating" a woman."; and other dancers I know who have left the work and over a period of time re-identifying themselves as straight, sliding back toward "normal" heterosexual placement on the Kinsey scale, as some level of proof that I might be on to something.

Please: Like I said, it is just the amateur sociologist in me finding it interesting as to why the apparent statistical difference between the dancer community and the general population and looking for a reason as to why that might be the case.

Any other opinions besides my own on this?

Earl_the_Pearl
11-28-2009, 12:19 AM
It is also a selling point as many PLs love the girl on girl interaction.

So their overly generalized choices become "the milquetoast" or "the asshole".

If one is not a milquetoast one is an asshole there is no middle ground as is proven here on SW.

Golden_Rule
11-28-2009, 12:41 AM
It is also a selling point as many PLs love the girl on girl interaction.

That might be a reason for taking new feelings and experimenting with them safely... as in "i'm only doing this because I'm getting paid to do it."



If one is not a milquetoast one is an asshole there is no middle ground as is proven here on SW.

In their way of thinking, yes. You'd have to, well I don't know if forgive is the right term but it is all I can think of at the moment, someone for coming to those conclusions under the circumstances I describe above.

They may be jumping to conclusions but too many of the men are giving them some reason to jump. They may start to see all men in terms of bad and worse and can, at that point, miss those that fall outside those parameters.

Group think takes hold and everyone gets painted with the same brush.

Happens a lot in social microcosms where groups find themselves in similar situations, seen as different in someway by an "outside" world. They respond by seeing them as different too. For instance cops. Big "us and them" issues can take hold in departments for guys who work with cops and hang with cops and don't make an effort to associate with others not on the job. Bad guys are the assholes. Victims the milquetoasts. And even though the world is not fill of just victims and bad people the group think can take hold and you start dividing the world into three camps. Two types of thems [neither you want to socialize with], and us. Not all that different a dynamic in some ways.

The best way to avoid that is to make every effort to socialize with people who you don't work with, reminding yourself there are all sorts of people in the world NOT just three types.

That is why I think that dancers who mostly socialize with strip-club folk, especially other dancers, may [I said may] be more susceptible to the anomaly I am discussing here.

JayATee
11-28-2009, 12:56 PM
I was bi long before I started dancing. But since I'd probably be considered someone deviant to begin with it's not really surprising Im a dancer as well as bisexual. I'd bet this is true among many of us.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-28-2009, 01:15 PM
I was bi long before I started dancing. But since I'd probably be considered someone deviant to begin with it's not really surprising Im a dancer as well as bisexual. I'd bet this is true among many of us.

This is me. I sought out physical intimacy with women before I ever considered stripping.

But I, like many bisexual strippers, do not date women. So, I don't really consider myself a true bisexual.

The other site, which is composed of actual females, did a poll, and an overwhelming majority are bisexual to an extent, like, about 75%....way more than you estimated G-Rule.

I don't think it has much to do with your theory at all, although I can only speak for myself and the other women I know. But it would be interesting to do another poll to determine "when" and "why".

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-28-2009, 01:23 PM
I find in my knowing dancers who are still working who state: "I am sexual with women and not with men at the moment but while I don't have a male partner at this time I wouldn't actually consider "dating" a woman."; and other dancers I know who have left the work and over a period of time re-identifying themselves as straight, sliding back toward "normal" heterosexual placement on the Kinsey scale, as some level of proof that I might be on to something.


The bolded actually sounds like a line I use for customers who are trying to get the goods on me. Empirical testing of my custs has shown that they want to think you are single, somewhat available, and sexually very open.....notice she adds that she is not sexually active with any man. Do you really believe that?

It opens the door for more potential profit than, "I live with my huge-cocked musician boyfriend, and we fuck chicks all the time...for free."
PL's don't really care to hear that, lol. :P

Also, I am a FIRM believer in not getting too tangled up in the SC drama/culture, and having a life/friends outside of the club. Hence, although I've had many a rough night where I truly felt I disliked all males...being away from the club for a few days, would put those thoughts back into check....

Its sort of like the other thread we have now, about fingering in the club. I mentioned something about being robbed by some Moroccan guys. I'll admit, I had some racist feelings about those people for a bit after what happened. However, the person who helped me out was Moroccan, then I went back to work with several Moroccan co-workers that were very kind, good people.

It helped put things back into perspective. Hence, when a stripper's life is all about the club, I can see where its easier to develop a us:them mentality. But you may also want to lend some credit to these ladies...particularly to the ones online. They are very intelligent and are aware that SC men are not ALL men.....

Really, as I re-read your hypothesis, I'm finging it rather weak. Oh, and this is said constructively, I understand where you are coming from and respect what you have to say about this, No insults. ;)

Elvia
11-28-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't see it. All the dancers I've worked with pretend to be bisexual in the right situations, and very few actually are.

Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 02:29 PM
I was bi long before I started dancing. But since I'd probably be considered someone deviant to begin with it's not really surprising Im a dancer as well as bisexual. I'd bet this is true among many of us.

So if I read you right you'd submit that its more likely that stripping attracts bi-sexual women as opposed to creating an environment where women who are "flexible" on the Kinsey scale but previously with no great amount of experience with bi-sexuality [iow wouldn;t identify themselves as b-sexual prior to dancing] are more likely to experiment for the reasons I stated above?

Golden_Rule
11-29-2009, 02:49 PM
The other site, which is composed of actual females, did a poll, and an overwhelming majority are bisexual to an extent, like, about 75%....way more than you estimated G-Rule.

Wouldn't care to post a link to that because I'd be interested in reading it?

All the more reason to ask "why and when" because if that is accurate at all that makes for a massive difference between SW dancers and the general population. Even a someone with no particular interest in social science has to ponder a difference that big in social norms.




It would be interesting to see the results, no doubt.

[QUOTE=KiwiStrawberry Splenda;1875497]
Really, as I re-read your hypothesis, I'm finging it rather weak. Oh, and this is said constructively, I understand where you are coming from and respect what you have to say about this, No insults. ;)

I'm not taking it personally. I put the notion up to be discussed, not to be agreed with by everyone. I appreciate the input.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-29-2009, 03:36 PM
Wouldn't care to post a link to that because I'd be interested in reading it?


No links, the mention of that site is verboten here, and its all in a private area for females only anyway. Sorry, no cookie for you. ;)

JayATee
11-29-2009, 09:33 PM
So if I read you right you'd submit that its more likely that stripping attracts bi-sexual women as opposed to creating an environment where women who are "flexible" on the Kinsey scale but previously with no great amount of experience with bi-sexuality [iow wouldn;t identify themselves as b-sexual prior to dancing] are more likely to experiment for the reasons I stated above?

No. Im saying that you have to be a little bit deviant to be a stripper. You also have to be a little bit deviant to be bi sexual. One doesn't mean the other, but it is not a surprise to find a plethora of deviant people in such an environment.

Earl_the_Pearl
11-29-2009, 09:51 PM
Wouldn't care to post a link to that because I'd be interested in reading it?

It is the 75% lesbian stripper site; you would not like it there.

Earl_the_Pearl
11-29-2009, 09:54 PM
...but it is not a surprise to find a plethora of deviant people in such an environment.
On both sides of the bar. :yes:

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
11-29-2009, 10:02 PM
It is the 75% lesbian stripper site; you would not like it there.

Not lesbian, just having some level of sexual feelings towards other women...even if its a desire to be intimate with women but not actual experience, etc...

I have lesbian figures, but I am not going to discuss non-public info anymore. There are some SW polls and threads that have enough information. Read those.

Earl_the_Pearl
11-29-2009, 10:21 PM
I have lesbian figures, but I am not going to discuss non-public info anymore. There are some SW polls and threads that have enough information. Read those.
I don't need any poles. Who knows what lurks in the heart of strippers? Earl knows.

lopaw
12-06-2009, 11:18 PM
It is the 75% lesbian stripper site


LOL.....yeah, I wish.

Kellydancer
10-06-2010, 09:10 PM
I would say probably over half of the strippers I've worked with would consider themselves bi, but the bi varies. What I mean is that they consider being bi anything from doing girl/girl shows (but not sleeping with women outside of that) to full blown lesbian relationships while they were dating men too. I knew a dancer who was married and sleeping with another dancer and a cop! I've always believed that everyone could be open to experimenting with the same sex and not really be bi.

Me personally I'm not interested in having sex with a woman. I will admit I did it once and not really interested in doing it again (and only did it once because a guy I was in a FWB wanted to see me do it if he did a man). It really didn't do much for me and this was in college. I wasn't dancing then. I've never mentioned this here before because it really slips my mind. I consider myself straight and am not attracted to women. I've never been attracted to any dancer I worked with. I am sexually a very boring monogamous person and prefer my relationships to be with men.

lfr
06-01-2011, 10:28 PM
it's weird, the club I go to, I've been told that no girl at the club is really 'gay', but some are 'bi'. Now mind you, the girls I like, have acted out kinda sexually towards other girls when i was there, in a flirty way, but when I straight up asked them, after I got to know them, they tell me that they are no way, just interested in men and totally straight. One girl who I even thought was gay ended up not being one once I asked her.

I gotta wonder, if it's the younger generation that they are just more flirtacious with one another or if's the policy/atmosphere of the club that these girls feel the need to hyper-sexualize anyone in it.

I wonder if I showed interest in the girls as bi or whatnot, would they have told me that they were interested in girls?

bucket
06-02-2011, 09:32 PM
Bi chicks have moustaches.
I'll pass.

UV69
06-03-2011, 02:16 AM
I don't know where these numbers are coming from but I would say that the only difference between the num of bistrippers in a club then ratio of bigirls in any where else is a lot closer. Except strippers are more generally more free to admit it & act on it cuz let's face it they don't have the kind of repressed sexuality & shame that most women have about sex plus the opportunity to act on it & temptation is always right there.

I personally don't know any girl that hasn't experimented or had a bi experience at some point dancer or not becuz from what every girl I happen to come across always feels like telling me about their sexuality includes that 1 time they kissed a girl or how they wondered or think if the right girl came around they would, but she would have to be this or that famous actress/model ect ..ect I think it's normal from most women no matter what their preference is to have that curiosity or 1 time kissing a friend event /bi phase moreso then to be a girl that never ever had the thought or experience so I tend to think most girls are abit bi to begin with no matter what team they bat 4.

Yes I do think seeing other naked women all day & seeing them in a highly sexual role does help bring many out of the closest, but I don't think a str8 girl gets turned bi becuz of it & I tend to think those bi girls that didn't come out till dancing well where probably bi to begin with just not used to the sexual freedom of getting to look at other women like that before dancing.

Of all the lovers I have had at work & among strippers I didn't get to convert a single 1. Some were all out lesbians, most were bi, but even those that claimed to be str8 infront of others all had past experiences years before me or dancings.

Many bigirls I know knew they were bi around the same age I knew I was a lesbian even though it took college for me to feel free to come out I was very aware of my feelings for girls when I was 7 & I think once some1 is given the freedom to come out about their sexually & accept themselves they can look back often see times before they repressed acting on it out of fear or whatnot, but I highly doubt stripping did anything more then give a bi girl the opportunity & openness to accept parts of their sexuality that was always somewhere there if they didn't already have that be4 dancing.

I don't think dancing turns str8 men off of men onto women cuz of any us verse them kinda sexism. If it was that ez then I would choice not to be attracted to women cuz goodness knows myself would be ezier if I went for men, but I really don't think people get a say in what sex/es attract them or not even if for some sometimes they feel like a nut & sometimes they don't & others they want both.

UV69
06-03-2011, 02:24 AM
Bi chicks have moustaches.
I'll pass.

WFT ???

If that isn't pure ignorance I don't know what is.

lestat1
06-03-2011, 10:42 PM
My straight-male, ignorant of the topic, poor food analogy explanation, not to be taken too seriously given my lack of credentials...

Let's say I've never eaten red meat. Scenario A: I spend my days surrounded by ground chuck beef. Maybe I'll try it, maybe I won't. Scenario B: now let's say I surround myself with filet mignon, or kobe beef all day. I'm probably more likely to try it.

My point being, and I can only imagine here, if I were to some extent a bi-curious woman, I'd think it more likely to experiment if I were surrounded by gorgeous strippers oozing sex like Jabba the Hutt oozes sweaty evil than I would if I were at a PTA meeting. Maybe? I don't know. The general notion of trying something, to me, seems correlated to how tempting it is.

UV69
06-03-2011, 10:59 PM
My straight-male, ignorant of the topic, poor food analogy explanation, not to be taken too seriously given my lack of credentials...

Let's say I've never eaten red meat. Scenario A: I spend my days surrounded by ground chuck beef. Maybe I'll try it, maybe I won't. Scenario B: now let's say I surround myself with filet mignon, or kobe beef all day. I'm probably more likely to try it.

My point being, and I can only imagine here, if I were to some extent a bi-curious woman, I'd think it more likely to experiment if I were surrounded by gorgeous strippers oozing sex like Jabba the Hutt oozes sweaty evil than I would if I were at a PTA meeting. Maybe? I don't know. The general notion of trying something, to me, seems correlated to how tempting it is.

I agree that there is more reason for bi curious women to try the other side of her sexuality when working as a stripper--cuz like you stated there is more temptation available, but the curiosity & the will to do so has to be there 1st & isn't magically created by working in the club as many str8 women work as dancers not tempted in anyway by other naked women.

lopaw
06-04-2011, 09:21 PM
it's weird, the club I go to, I've been told that no girl at the club is really 'gay', but some are 'bi'. Now mind you, the girls I like, have acted out kinda sexually towards other girls when i was there, in a flirty way, but when I straight up asked them, after I got to know them, they tell me that they are no way, just interested in men and totally straight. One girl who I even thought was gay ended up not being one once I asked her.

I gotta wonder, if it's the younger generation that they are just more flirtacious with one another or if's the policy/atmosphere of the club that these girls feel the need to hyper-sexualize anyone in it.

I wonder if I showed interest in the girls as bi or whatnot, would they have told me that they were interested in girls?


Well of course a dancer is going to tell you what you want to hear in regards to her sexuality. Alot of guys would not buy dances unless they thought that the dancer was 100% into men, meaning she was all straight. This works both ways, of course. I'm sure alot of dancers become "gayer" when selling me dances, coz why would I want to buy a dance from a straight dancer who I know would have no interest in me sexually?

'Tis the way of the bizness ;)

lfr
06-06-2011, 02:02 AM
Well of course a dancer is going to tell you what you want to hear in regards to her sexuality. Alot of guys would not buy dances unless they thought that the dancer was 100% into men, meaning she was all straight. This works both ways, of course. I'm sure alot of dancers become "gayer" when selling me dances, coz why would I want to buy a dance from a straight dancer who I know would have no interest in me sexually?

'Tis the way of the bizness ;)
Yeah, but I gave no indication of my preference, and I would think they would tell me bi to kinda turn me on, you know the whole, I do guys and chicks thing, typical male fantasy. So I think they were being honest with me. (now, I do have a nice, honest rappaport with them), but I just found it a bit weird.

lopaw
06-06-2011, 07:23 PM
Yeah, but I gave no indication of my preference, and I would think they would tell me bi to kinda turn me on, you know the whole, I do guys and chicks thing, typical male fantasy. So I think they were being honest with me. (now, I do have a nice, honest rappaport with them), but I just found it a bit weird.


Well, my experience has been that many (if not most) of the dancers I meet claim to be either bi or bi-curious - the vast majority, in fact (prolly for my benefit).

I have met a handful of outright lesbian dancers, and also only a handful of dancers claiming to be 100% straight.

I have met more than a few dancers that have told me that there are alot of guys - especially the old ones - who don't like the whole girl/girl thing, so they don't play it up with those kinds of custies. So I think that alot of dancers tweak their sexuality "on the fly" as they come across all different kinds of customers with their own preferences.

UV69
06-06-2011, 08:26 PM
That's just stuff that goes on when talking game to custies, but when you work at a club you tend to learn what is money talk about their sexuality & what is the real deal as word gets by quick who does or likes what when it comes to the subject of sexuality. Seriously when new girls come in my club & we describe her to another dancer who hasn't meet her yet the convo goes is she pretty, what's she like, what did she look like, oh and then we play guess her sexuality.

By week 2 if some1 doesn't find out or guess it where we are certain about it some1 will ask her cuz the convo will come up. Maybe it's that I work in a small club, but even if my gaydar wasn't as good as it is we get the 411 on the sexuality of any1 that works in the club. Infact I'ld say before new girls know my name they will be told or guess that I'm a lesbian & some1 else will tell me if she is into girls. In fact when I quit my mangers would still call me up & let me know as if being gay made me the go to background check source on every girl that ever ate a pussy.

lfr
06-12-2011, 12:52 AM
I have met more than a few dancers that have told me that there are alot of guys - especially the old ones - who don't like the whole girl/girl thing, so they don't play it up with those kinds of custies. So I think that alot of dancers tweak their sexuality "on the fly" as they come across all different kinds of customers with their own preferences.
oh, maybe that is me as well then... :O

yeah, I'm not thinking about this too much but it was something I was, at the time, wondering about. thanks. :)

lfr
07-03-2011, 03:15 AM
actually, this is something that's come up again for me. but knowing and respecting the dancers involved and my own personal confusion and all, I can't get into it. but I still appreciate this thread for kinda helping me sort things out.

I realize I know nothing about anything...

Natalllia
07-03-2011, 02:20 PM
I've been sexually interested in both men and women since puberty, and had long-term relationships with people of both genders long before I ever started dancing. Given my own history, I am inclined to side with the viewpoint that dancing attracts women who are in touch with their sexuality, and many of these women are bisexual (or have had at least some kind of attraction and/or sexual experiences with women in the past).

That being said, I'm sure there are plenty of dancers who behave sexually toward other women in the club because they know it turns men on. These women are being influenced by their environment (the SC), but IMO this behavior does not make someone bisexual. Straight women can behave sexually with another woman (being motivated by something other than pure attraction/desire), and still be straight.

Jay12
09-11-2011, 03:47 PM
I've been a bisexual since high school. So, being a dancer had nothing to do.

Coastie Joe
12-27-2011, 10:29 AM
Golden_Rule: while I would agree there seems to be a higher % of Bi women at the club, I would also agree there seems to be a higher % of drunks at the bar.
.
You are thinking of this in a way that makes sense to men. The problem with how we think as men is simple; We as men have two brains sometime referred to as “the big head and the little head” unfortunately we only have enough blood to operate one at a time"

lopaw
12-27-2011, 01:42 PM
.
You are thinking of this in a way that makes sense to men. The problem with how we think as men is simple; We as men have two brains sometime referred to as “the big head and the little head” unfortunately we only have enough blood to operate one at a time"


Here's a news flash for you - women often think with their "little head" too - at least women who love women do. Can't speak for straight women, since I have no idea what they find attractive in guys and I couldn't relate to it anyways.

kikidejavu
12-27-2011, 01:56 PM
I was mildy interested in hooking up with girls before i started dancing. In a an enviroment where it's so open and encouraged I definetly indulged my curiosity! ;) After a few years I met a lesbian who was so awesome I decided it didnt matter if she had a vag! Now I'm perfectly comfortable being with either. I don't know if my mind would have been as open had I never been in the strip club.

Kellydancer
12-27-2011, 11:37 PM
Here's a news flash for you - women often think with their "little head" too - at least women who love women do. Can't speak for straight women, since I have no idea what they find attractive in guys and I couldn't relate to it anyways.

Straight women do as well, but many won't admit it. Oh sure some look at other things like his job or his personality but at least in my experience women who find a man repulsive won't go further with him. Of course him having money is another situation of course. I could go into a long spiel about what I find attractive in men and generally it hasn't changed since teen years. Oddly the guys I find repulsive are always the guys who are interested in me and the ones I like have no interest. But when I find a man fitting what I desire my mind goes in the gutter.