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Hopper
12-06-2009, 01:56 AM
Perhaps I should have amended my definition to be "stripping off of clothing with the intent to arouse." Even stripping down to a slip and stockings can be sexy, and I'd still consider it "stripping." I don't see why it has to go past what you might see in public to be considered "stripping."

A completely clothed girl can be sexy. A stripper going only down to a bikini would be pretty disappointing these days. In practice, you have to go as far as the next girl and most girls are going nude.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
12-06-2009, 10:58 AM
I think how far a girl goes also depends on the law, not competition. Some places only allow a girl to strip down to an opaque bikini, some are full nude. Its regional. In Texas, there are relatively fewer nude clubs than topless clubs, so no one can "one up" the other girls in an alcohol serving club by going nude, they would be arrested.

Elvia
12-06-2009, 03:57 PM
A completely clothed girl can be sexy.

Yes, but she wouldn't be "stripping" or, necessarily, intending to arouse, and therefore, wouldn't fit my definition of stripping at all.



A stripper going only down to a bikini would be pretty disappointing these days. In practice, you have to go as far as the next girl and most girls are going nude.

And I've seen burlesque dancers who only strip to something even more modest than a bikini- a a corset, long line bra, panties and stockings. A lot of people enjoy it, and yes, I'd still consider it "stripping."

I don't know where you get the idea that "most" girls are going nude. In the US at least, I'm pretty sure that nude clubs are in the minority to clubs that require you keep something on, even if it's just a thong.

And know, you don't have to go as far as the next girl. Full nudity isn't the only factor in whether you're going to be sucessful or not. I've had nights where I didn't take my bottoms off very often and still did better than some girls who always took them off.

Hopper
12-07-2009, 03:46 AM
Yes, but she wouldn't be "stripping" or, necessarily, intending to arouse, and therefore, wouldn't fit my definition of stripping at all.

Okay but we were talking about how little a girl has to be wearing to be sexy. Strippers have to go past "sexy" to "very little clothing".


And I've seen burlesque dancers who only strip to something even more modest than a bikini- a a corset, long line bra, panties and stockings. A lot of people enjoy it, and yes, I'd still consider it "stripping."

I thought burlesque these days is mainly just a nostalgia/pop-culture thing, a revival of an iconic form of entertainment. It's sexy, but so is a Beyonce video.


I don't know where you get the idea that "most" girls are going nude. In the US at least, I'm pretty sure that nude clubs are in the minority to clubs that require you keep something on, even if it's just a thong.

Most strippers in Guam.


And know, you don't have to go as far as the next girl. Full nudity isn't the only factor in whether you're going to be sucessful or not. I've had nights where I didn't take my bottoms off very often and still did better than some girls who always took them off.

True, but just a g-string is still less than what women wear IRL. I'll ammend it to "have to go as far as the next firl all things being equal". (A given girl cuold be better or worse at making money than the next girl.)

Anyway, I thought the more stage tips you get, the more you take off? That would mean the less-liked girl takes less off on stage. Obviously you're so hot you just don't have to.

Elvia
12-07-2009, 04:00 AM
Okay but we were talking about how little a girl has to be wearing to be sexy. Strippers have to go past "sexy" to "very little clothing".

I disagree

And I've seen burlesque dancers who only strip to something even more modest than a bikini- a a corset, long line bra, panties and stockings. A lot of people enjoy it, and yes, I'd still consider it "stripping."

I thought burlesque these days is mainly just a nostalgia/pop-culture thing, a revival of an iconic form of entertainment. It's sexy, but so is a Beyonce video.

I don't see why burlesque can't be considered a form of stripping. I've never reduced my definition of "stripping" to just "anything sexy" and don't see why you need to.



Most strippers in Guam.

Guam is not the entire world. Unless the vast majority of strippers all live in Guam then your statement is still incorrect.



True, but just a g-string is still less than what women wear IRL. I'll ammend it to "have to go as far as the next firl all things being equal". (A given girl cuold be better or worse at making money than the next girl.)

Anyway, I thought the more stage tips you get, the more you take off?

It varies. There are no hard rules for all dancers.
[/quote]

ViolaStrings
12-07-2009, 07:19 AM
Hopper, seriously. We know more about stripping than you do. Promise.

JayATee
12-07-2009, 01:42 PM
Hopper, seriously. We know more about stripping than you do. Promise.

No he knows EVERYTHING. Especially when it comes to stripping and strippers. I mean how could you even think we would know more about our jobs?

Phil-W
12-07-2009, 01:57 PM
I try and call girls dancers, both on this board and IRL. I think the word is more neutral than 'stripper', which if used in specific contexts can have negative connotations.

In the UK at least girls tend to refer to each other in conversation as dancers, rather than strippers.

If in conversation with customers, I've noticed dancers tend to refer to themselves as strippers - maybe because fitting in with the customer's stereotype of them is the easiest option.

When dancers are off to a venue, they always say "I'm off to work", never "I'm off to strip".

When they're collecting, they ask for "money for my next dance", never money for my next strip".

So maybe "stripper" is a word for public consumption, and "dancer" a word for private conversations.

Phil.

MissMynxx
12-07-2009, 04:04 PM
I can see what Hopper is trying to get across, but he still just sort of sucks at making his point. :-*

Hopper
12-08-2009, 03:58 AM
I don't see why burlesque can't be considered a form of stripping.

In it's own time burlesque was stripping, for sexual arousal. But it's tame by today's standards and stripping has moved on. Today burlesque has just been dusted off as a vintage pop-cultural icon. It's taken out of it's original sexual context. Usually I see it incorporated with poiltical performances, e.g. as a "positive feminist" statement, rather than to excite men. That's why so many women like Dita von Tees, and many women like also to do it themselves. But they don't view SCs the same way and would be less inclined to strip or not at all. Different context. Regular stripping is much more overtly arousing.

I've met one or two strippers who also do burlesque. Get it? ALSO do burlesque. They like to incorporate burlesque into their SC stage dances. They obviosly don't think of them as the same thing. They just do both. I know a few girls who do burlesque, because it is fashionable (like African drumming), but would never strip in an SC.

There's no reason why burlesque couldn't be done for just for sexual entertainment, but SCs have taken over that role. It's not in vogue as sexual entertainment. It's not done.

Hopper
12-08-2009, 04:09 AM
Hopper, seriously. We know more about stripping than you do. Promise.

I know how much clothing strippers usually take off just from watching.

Hopper
12-08-2009, 04:32 AM
I can see what Hopper is trying to get across, but he still just sort of sucks at making his point. :-*

Should be obvious. Shouldn't have to try to make the point at all.

I think the others are confuseing two different usages of the word "strip". One describes just taking clothes off, for ordinary everyday reasons, the other describes taking clothes specifically off to show one's body, to sexually arouse others, to make money.

Okay so the stripper could look sexy on stage just taking one garment off. But then she would look sexy in her stripper costume - the one she hustles in - without taking any of it off, or without even dancing. Usually guys want to see more of the girl than they can in public, not just a sexy dance. They can watch top 40 music videos to see that.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
12-08-2009, 11:38 AM
I know how much clothing strippers usually take off just from watching.

And this takes me back to my initial discussion with you a few weeks ago. Club are different everywhere! Some clubs allow full nudity, some clubs require a girl to get undressed whether she is getting tipped or not, some clubs allow the dancer to choose. There is no one hard, steadfast rule amongst all clubs.

JayATee
12-08-2009, 11:57 AM
I know how much clothing strippers usually take off just from watching.


Really? Because I walk around in more clothing than anyone else I work with. I strip on stage only down to my g string and I don't wear pasties. And my private dances are fully clothed. There are clubs that you can't show nipple in. There are clubs that are fully nude. Exactly what do you know? What they do at the particular club you frequent? Hmm... not exactly an expert then. ::)

Elvia
12-08-2009, 05:35 PM
I've met one or two strippers who also do burlesque. Get it? ALSO do burlesque. They like to incorporate burlesque into their SC stage dances. They obviosly don't think of them as the same thing. They just do both. I know a few girls who do burlesque, because it is fashionable (like African drumming), but would never strip in an SC.

There's no reason why burlesque couldn't be done for just for sexual entertainment, but SCs have taken over that role. It's not in vogue as sexual entertainment. It's not done.

As I said before, I'd consider burlesque a TYPE of stripping. They can do "regular" stripping as you call it, and more "burlesque" style stripping. Just because one dancer would do burlesque and wouldn't do "regular" stripping doesn't mean one isn't stripping. There's a lot of things I won't do on stage that a lot of other girls will. There's no clear cut line. I would say that burlesque is done for the purpose of erotic arousal, just not exclusively.


I know how much clothing strippers usually take off just from watching.

I think you've already proven that you do not.


Should be obvious. Shouldn't have to try to make the point at all.

I think the others are confuseing two different usages of the word "strip". One describes just taking clothes off, for ordinary everyday reasons, the other describes taking clothes specifically off to show one's body, to sexually arouse others, to make money.


No, that's not what anyone has said at all.

Hopper
12-09-2009, 01:22 AM
And this takes me back to my initial discussion with you a few weeks ago. Club are different everywhere! Some clubs allow full nudity, some clubs require a girl to get undressed whether she is getting tipped or not, some clubs allow the dancer to choose. There is no one hard, steadfast rule amongst all clubs.

I know it's not the same at all clubs or for all individual dancers. But nobody has yet disagreed with me that strippers usually go down at least to a g-string. I'm not talking about the 1% who take off less.

Hopper
12-09-2009, 01:33 AM
Really? Because I walk around in more clothing than anyone else I work with. I strip on stage only down to my g string and I don't wear pasties. And my private dances are fully clothed. There are clubs that you can't show nipple in. There are clubs that are fully nude. Exactly what do you know? What they do at the particular club you frequent? Hmm... not exactly an expert then. ::)

Why are you taking this personally? I wasn't lecturing, I was just saying what I think is normal. I never claimed to know all about every strip club or all the details of your profession. Didn't even imply it.

Only down to your g-string? Really, ONLY that far? That is how far I said most strippers go, or nude. I have been to about twenty different clubs and seen probably a thousand strippers, over ten years. Generally strippers have always gone down to g-string or nude. Small percentage not, if any. Does every SC in my town just happen to be radically different from SCs everywherre else in the world? They basically offer the same thing, don't they? Do I really need to adress all the variations and exceptions whenever I talk about anything? What percentage of clubs can't stripers show nipple in? How many strippers LD clothed? You said you wear more than all the others in your club. Doesn't that make you an EXCEPTION then?

Is all of this even necessary?

JayATee
12-09-2009, 02:07 AM
Why are you taking this personally?

I'm not taking anything personally, nor am I bothering to read the rest of your post. Im telling you you don't know what you're talking about. Why are YOU turning it into a war? Don't like to be told you're wrong? Sucks to be you! ::)

mediocrity
12-09-2009, 02:13 AM
Why are you taking this personally? I wasn't lecturing, I was just saying what I think is normal. I never claimed to know all about every strip club or all the details of your profession. Didn't even imply it.

Only down to your g-string? Really, ONLY that far? That is how far I said most strippers go, or nude. I have been to about twenty different clubs and seen probably a thousand strippers, over ten years. Generally strippers have always gone down to g-string or nude. Small percentage not, if any. Does every SC in my town just happen to be radically different from SCs everywherre else in the world? They basically offer the same thing, don't they? Do I really need to adress all the variations and exceptions whenever I talk about anything? What percentage of clubs can't stripers show nipple in? How many strippers LD clothed? You said you wear more than all the others in your club. Doesn't that make you an EXCEPTION then?

Is all of this even necessary?

Oh, get over it already. I've worked topless, bikini, and nude. The clubs run the gamut. Even at the nude club I worked at in ATL, if we did not feel we were adequately tipped, we didnt have to take shit off. Stop stirring the pot already.

Elvia
12-09-2009, 04:05 AM
So, hopper, by your definition, are girls who wear pasties "strippers?"

Hopper
12-09-2009, 04:10 AM
I'm not taking anything personally, nor am I bothering to read the rest of your post. Im telling you you don't know what you're talking about. Why are YOU turning it into a war? Don't like to be told you're wrong? Sucks to be you! ::)

Then you shouldn't have made any comment at all. I'm not turning it into war. You trolled in with a sarcastic remark, implying that it takes specialist knowledge to know what stripping means. What I don't like is your pig attitude, not other people disagreeing with me. There was no call at all for your rudeness. None.

Hopper
12-09-2009, 04:25 AM
Oh, get over it already. I've worked topless, bikini, and nude. The clubs run the gamut. Even at the nude club I worked at in ATL, if we did not feel we were adequately tipped, we didnt have to take shit off. Stop stirring the pot already.

Okay, some strip to a bikini. Great, I've never seen that but thanks for informing me. I made a mistake. I'll widen my definition of stripping now. A stripper could dance in whatever she chooses or whatever the club allows. But the word "strip" then applies a bit loosely doesn't it. We don't normally think of a stripper as someone who leaves her clothes ON, even if she took one or two items of clothing off. But she will wear as much as they can get away with regardless of what word she uses for it.

Elvia
12-09-2009, 04:28 AM
Some people are seriously over thinking this.

Hopper
12-09-2009, 04:35 AM
So, hopper, by your definition, are girls who wear pasties "strippers?"

I wasn't trying to make a definition, just saying what I assumed is the norm, i.e. what most people us the word "stripper" to mean, or what they think of when they hear the word, and what I've actually seen.

I don't see girls walking about in pasties IRL, so I guess it's going far enough to rate her as a "stripper".

Dance in full costume if it still gets you tips. You are still working in a strip club, but the term "stripper" then applies a bit loosely, since you didn't take anyting off. Take your dress off and leave your bra and shorts on. Technically you are still stripping them. Go on stage in bra and pants and stay in them - don't strip. I guess you still had to strip in the dressing room when you changed into those.

It's all just a word game. Wherever I've been, strippers actually strip, and strip almost or all the way. I assumed that's how it is everywhere. But none of you told me that until halfway through the argument.

Hopper
12-09-2009, 04:39 AM
Some people are seriously over thinking this.

I 'm done, unless JayATee wants to stir the pot some more.

laurcon
12-09-2009, 12:48 PM
i think its similar to many terms that have been taken back by the people historically called that in a demeaning way. i personally do not like when anyone that is not a stripper calls me a stripper. i don't think they have any clue about what i do and where i work and are lumping it in with what they saw at a frat house one time. or what they've heard. i think there is such a wide variety of strippers.
i've never even gotten naked for money. i used to work in a bikini bar and i didn't strip off any clothes there, so i guess that made me a go-go dancer, although lap dances happened at some clubs i was at, i didn't do them. but now i work topless and do private dances so did i just start stripping? i think many times we entertain the men at my club with a lot more than just being in a thong, so i absolutely call myself an entertainer. my co-workers can call me a stripper, but my hair does stand up when i see guys on this board type that.
thanks for asking.



It's all just a word game. Wherever I've been, strippers actually strip, and strip almost or all the way. I assumed that's how it is everywhere. But none of you told me that until halfway through the argument.

i posted that on the first page. all strip clubs in new jersey are bikini if they serve alcohol. we have nude clubs but they are "juice bars" sometimes BYOB.
just proving our point that you don't know about what most dancers get down to and how they feel about it. but i'm sure you'll just keep assuming what you want.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
12-09-2009, 01:01 PM
I know it's not the same at all clubs or for all individual dancers. But nobody has yet disagreed with me that strippers usually go down at least to a g-string. I'm not talking about the 1% who take off less.

Way more than 1%. A lot of clubs require opaque tops or pasties. The club is still a strip club, and the girl may very well strip out of an outfit to get down to underwear and top, but the laws prevent her from going any further.

Also, some clubs require full bottoms, that cover a certain percentage of the butt.

Out of the 17 of so clubs I've worked over the years, only half of them had no particular coverage rules. Other clubs allowed full nude onstage, but opaque covered breasts during private dances, or topless onstage, and pasties during privates, etc, with other variations.

I have no particular stats, but I'd say at least 30-40% of USA stripclubs have some sort of annoying puritanical laws that prevent true topless or full nude. Maybe more. Two cities I've worked at in Texas used to be full topless to g-string, now they are pasties and full bottoms. Meaning....only about 5 of 17 clubs I've worked didn't have any coverage rules.

Elvia
12-09-2009, 01:51 PM
I wasn't trying to make a definition, just saying what I assumed is the norm, i.e. what most people us the word "stripper" to mean, or what they think of when they hear the word, and what I've actually seen.

I don't see girls walking about in pasties IRL, so I guess it's going far enough to rate her as a "stripper".


I don't see girls walking around in corsets, a bra, garter belt and stockings. So I guess by your own logic, burlesque does count as stripping.

ViolaStrings
12-09-2009, 03:20 PM
^ I wear that as a "regular" stripper! All the time! And I bank!

Phil-W
12-09-2009, 04:14 PM
^ I wear that as a "regular" stripper! All the time! And I bank!

I wear that as a "regular" customer! All the time! And I bark!

Hopper
12-10-2009, 01:05 AM
i posted that on the first page. all strip clubs in new jersey are bikini if they serve alcohol. we have nude clubs but they are "juice bars" sometimes BYOB.
just proving our point that you don't know about what most dancers get down to and how they feel about it. but i'm sure you'll just keep assuming what you want.

The alternative being jfor me to believe what you want? Neither - I just want to be able to think for myself.

I know about the NJ bikini clubs, but Earl, from NJ, says they aren't strippers.


A few may take off a shirt and shorts and show a bra and thong but there is no stripper type show about it. Most just start and stay in a bikini.

And you said yourself in the the quote you repeated jusrt now that it doesn't count as stripping.


i've never even gotten naked for money. i used to work in a bikini bar and i didn't strip off any clothes there, so i guess that made me a go-go dancer, although lap dances happened at some clubs i was at, i didn't do them.

The uncertaintly and disagreement is due to the popular application of the word to girls who dance for men regardless of whether it fits the original meaning of the word. It doesn't really rate arguing about.

But I think the standard notion of "stripper" is a girl who takes most or all of thir clothing off. Your contention is just that sometimes they don't, or if they don't, then you can still call them strippers. My standard notion may be wrong, but I based it on my experience, which is limitted to my town. Still, it is ALL the SCs in my town. And what I've always seen on TV or elsewhere, which isn't limitted to my own town. Untill recently I haven't had the chance to ask strippers from all over what actually happens.

Hopper
12-10-2009, 01:18 AM
I don't see girls walking around in corsets, a bra, garter belt and stockings. So I guess by your own logic, burlesque does count as stripping.

You also need the "intent to arouse". I was saying before that burlesque today has been taken out of that context, though it is still erotic and in it's way arousing. By "out of context" I mean it is no longer just something intended to arouse, as with regular stripping in SCs. Now it is more of a pop-cultural thing, performance, theatrical, and anachronistic also. Like belly dancing.

Now you are going to say belly dancing can be stripping or strippers can belly dance or belly dancers can strip. Yes okay but don't you get my point that in regard to their usual modern context, burlesque and stripping in SCs are different things, evenif physically they are similar? That's how it seems to me. I know very well that burlesque can be done as a straight strip-tease, which would be putting it back into it's original context, and could be performed in a SC.

I'm not trying to set any rules about what strippers in SCs do or what they wear. I was just talking about what usually IS. Never mind that I was wrong about that, I only know what I've seen in my town, or on TV, what I read, what people from elsewhere tell me etc.

Elvia
12-10-2009, 01:27 AM
You also need the "intent to arouse". I was saying before that burlesque today has been taken out of that context

I disagree, but I've already said that and we're just going in circles at this point.

mediocrity
12-10-2009, 04:29 AM
Oh this is rich.

JayATee
12-10-2009, 01:55 PM
I don't see girls walking around in corsets, a bra, garter belt and stockings. So I guess by your own logic, burlesque does count as stripping.

:raises hand: I wear this all the time! Im the only one in my club that does and I make sick $ in it.

Elvia
12-10-2009, 06:36 PM
^^^ I meant walking around in public wearing that.

Hopper
12-11-2009, 01:52 AM
^She knows what you mean better than you - you don't get a say.

The point I was making when I compared strippers to girls IRL was about how much less strippers wear. True women don't wear their underwear in public, but they wear clothes which are just as revealling, e.g. bikinis and sports-wear. Some regular street-wear tops cover roughly only the same area as a bra.

I understand the word "stripper" to mean showing more than we see IRL, even if it's not a rule.

peachplumpear
12-11-2009, 06:00 AM
I see where we went wrong here- The OP (who is no longer discussing it with anyone) expressed his post in a way that it seems obvious he has not seen nor been around the "Thousands" of strippers that Hopper has. So what is still exotic to one (and I did think it was very lovely the way he posted) seemed rather ordinary to another.

Some took offense at his tone obviously...

pixierocksonthepole
12-11-2009, 09:48 AM
When did it become OK to refer to entertainers as "strippers"? Women in the profession used to bristle at the term "stripper." They found it demeaning to the craft and full of ugly connotations. Now it seems to be the accepted term. I would never address an entertainer using that word. To me you are "exotic dancers" because that designation befits your beauty and mystery. No matter what you are called, I am ever thankful for what you do and feel deeply privileged that such enticing and beautiful women see fit to perform for me.



Actually there are many terms and stripper has never been demeaning. Thing is that is what we do, we strip, so stripper works. So does peeler, and exotic dancer, stripteaser and show girl. There are many names for it. And stripper has always been around, only snobby women way back when that were technically strippers found it demeaning. But the real good ones we remember like Gypsy Rose Lee...didn't mind. ^_^


(Also I would like to point out I'm not longer a stripper but I never found it demeaning when I was.)

JayATee
12-11-2009, 01:27 PM
^^^ I meant walking around in public wearing that.

Oh okie. Sorry. LoL


it seems obvious he has not seen nor been around the "Thousands" of strippers that Hopper has

:rotfl:

Hopper
12-11-2009, 06:11 PM
I see where we went wrong here- The OP (who is no longer discussing it with anyone) expressed his post in a way that it seems obvious he has not seen nor been around the "Thousands" of strippers that Hopper has. So what is still exotic to one (and I did think it was very lovely the way he posted) seemed rather ordinary to another.

Some took offense at his tone obviously...

I said "a thousand", not "thousands". If you put quotes around it, make sure I said it. If I went to SCs for two hours once a month over ten years I would see about one thousand stage shows. That's not even trying.

Elvia
12-11-2009, 07:18 PM
^She knows what you mean better than you - you don't get a say.


What does this even mean?

Hopper
12-12-2009, 04:04 PM
What does this mean?


No he knows EVERYTHING. Especially when it comes to stripping and strippers. I mean how could you even think we would know more about our jobs?

I must think I know everything just because I commented on one thing, orI have to know everything before I am allowed to say anything?

Shoot me for believing that strippers take their clothes off. Sorry for being so controversial.

Elvia
12-12-2009, 04:11 PM
^^^ no one is saying they don't take anything off. Nothing of the sort.

When you have to distort what others are saying to prove your point, it really just makes you look ridiculous.

Hopper
12-12-2009, 04:15 PM
^But why quibble over how much some strippers take off? Even the dancers arguing with me say most go down to a g-string or toppless, which is basically what I was saying also. I don't even get what the argument is about. I think it started when you said if a stripper only went down to her slip and stockings you would consider it stripping. But you didn't say that's how far strippers actually go.

Then I tried to make a point out of that and the dancers here started on about how there are "no hard and faxstr rules", I need inside knowledge of the industry to comment on it, I mustn't have even been to a SC and general nit-picking about how much a stripper can leave on tobe counted as a stripper.

Well whatever you call it, strippers usually don't leave their slips on.

KiwiStrawberry Splenda
12-12-2009, 07:16 PM
Slips? Women still wear slips? I think I had one of those when I was a little girl, do they even make them anymore?

Elvia
12-12-2009, 07:32 PM
^But why quibble over how much some strippers take off?

I don't know, you tell me. You're the one who apparently think that and only that is what defines what makes a "stripper."

Hopper
12-12-2009, 09:14 PM
^I wasn't defining a stripper, just saying what they normally take off and leave on. They take off whatever people pay them to take off.

Elvia
12-12-2009, 09:23 PM
^^^ You should just stop. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Hopper
12-12-2009, 09:23 PM
Slips? Women still wear slips? I think I had one of those when I was a little girl, do they even make them anymore?

Elvia brought it up. Isn't it also a type of lingerie? I don't know, I just watch the stage shows.


...Even stripping down to a slip and stockings can be sexy, and I'd still consider it "stripping." ...