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Golden_Rule
12-07-2009, 12:09 PM
You can't put aside getting my undivided attention. Dudes pay for that. That's like asking, "Putting aside hunger, why would anyone eat food?" It's stupid.

Just something to ponder...

Not Dudes in your real life, outside the club [at least one would hope not].

Not Dudes in clubs who have enough attention outside the clubs that they feel no need to pay others to pay attention to them.

Not Dudes you would probably have any real interest in. In fact I doubt you'd look with romantic intererst at a guy who you knew pays dancers to just to talk to them.

If any of the above is true than you have to admit it isn't an attractive position for a S-C customer to find himself. It might even be indicative of someone with issues that might need addressing in his personal life.

Elvia
12-07-2009, 03:26 PM
First of all, I don't think any of this is really relevant to what she's saying.

Secondly, I don't think it's pathetic or indicative of issues to pay for company sometimes, which is basically what we're talking about.

Elvia
12-07-2009, 03:29 PM
Earl probably spends a fair penny in clubs.

I don't know that its anyone's right to judge him on what he decides is of value to spend it on. Its his money.

Somehow, I don't think she's judging him based on this statement alone.

chris91
12-07-2009, 04:08 PM
Just something to ponder...

Not Dudes in your real life, outside the club [at least one would hope not].

Of course dudes in my real life don't pay for my attention. That's irrelevant.



Not Dudes in clubs who have enough attention outside the clubs that they feel no need to pay others to pay attention to them.

Most of the guys who pay for my time are traveling businessmen. They're on the road, and it's easier for them to hang out with me than to go out alone and try to make friends in a city they may never visit again. They're not starved for attention. Just bored.



Not Dudes you would probably have any real interest in. In fact I doubt you'd look with romantic intererst at a guy who you knew pays dancers to just to talk to them.

Paying strippers to hang out with you does not automatically disqualify you as someone that I could be interested in. If my man were on the road a lot, or if I were away, then I would not even give it a second thought if he took a stripper to vip. Now, if he left me home alone on my birthday or couldn't pay his bills because of the strippers, that would be a different story.




If any of the above is true than you have to admit it isn't an attractive position for a S-C customer to find himself. It might even be indicative of someone with issues that might need addressing in his personal life.

I'm not sure why you posted this. I never commented on whether or not it is an attractive position to be in or if it was indicative of personal issues. I don't really care to ponder either of those things, as they are non-issues for me.

Golden_Rule
12-07-2009, 08:16 PM
First of all, I don't think any of this is really relevant to what she's saying.

Secondly, I don't think it's pathetic or indicative of issues to pay for company sometimes, which is basically what we're talking about.

Sometimes, maybe not. Regularly?

These are things a healthy person, male or female, finds in relationships that don't require remuneration other than the quid pro quo of time for time, attention for attention.

Anything involving payment for the services of sex workers should, I think, fall into the category of entertainment. They are the types of things to make an already full life a bit more spicy or savory. They shouldn't be the meat and potatoes of a life. More like the salt and pepper.

No one can live on salt and pepper but it would be hard to deny that they make things more tasty.

lestat1
12-07-2009, 09:19 PM
I'm going to try to make this as non-ranty as I possibly can, but I really want to know the answer to this question. Why, in a non-grinding club, when the rules have been clearly stated, would a customer CONTINUOUSLY try to direct/push/pull/whatever a dancer towards his dick? Obviously we KNOW where it is and we arent touching it for a reason. After repeatedly pulling away when a guy does this, redirecting myself away from his cock, flat out telling him I don't do that..etc.. I'm left wondering "how the hell does he not consider this to be wrong?" It's very obviously a forceful thing to be doing. They're trying to make the girl do something against her will. Do they not see it this way or do they and they just don't give a shit? How do they rationalize it? I'm not playing dumb, I'm serious. Because when I finally get fed up completely and end a dance or tell a customer I won't do another one, he whines about it and says "why?" or "I didn't mean to offend you, I'm sorry" etc etc.

What???

How could you possibly feel like what you're doing is acceptable when the dancer is saying "no" and you're pulling on her hips hard enough to white your knuckles?

I'm not saying all of you customers here on this forum do this, but you're guys and customers after all. Do you think that their opinion of us is so low it allows them to enter some sort of guilt-free zone? Or do they feel entitled to it because they paid? Or do they really not "understand" like so many of them claim?

I bet most on this site actually know the answer already.

Rhetorical questions for folks to answer to themselves: have you ever had unprotected sex in your life with someone whose current STD or birth control status was unknown? How about drug use?

I like them as analogies. They're dangerous, they're something we all know is wrong and absolutely should not be doing, they can hurt another person very deeply, yet they are things that many do anyway. Why? There's the answer to the OP's question.

Pretty_Penny
12-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I bet most on this site actually know the answer already.

Rhetorical questions for folks to answer to themselves: have you ever had unprotected sex in your life with someone whose current STD or birth control status was unknown? How about drug use?

I like them as analogies. They're dangerous, they're something we all know is wrong and absolutely should not be doing, they can hurt another person very deeply, yet they are things that many do anyway. Why? There's the answer to the OP's question.

No, I have never had unprotected sex with anyone whose current STD status was unknown.

Also, I don't see how these things relate to forcing yourself on someone sexually. I don't consider "doing drugs" to be the same thing. I can't even begin to understand how it could be.

chris91
12-07-2009, 11:47 PM
I like them as analogies. They're dangerous, they're something we all know is wrong and absolutely should not be doing, they can hurt another person very deeply, yet they are things that many do anyway. Why? There's the answer to the OP's question.

I don't think the guys who grope us realize that they are doing anything wrong. We're not people to them. The dancer is like a vending machine, and the sex act is like the candy bar stuck inside. They feel they've paid for the candy bar, and they will shake the machine until it comes out. If they break the machine, it's no big deal, because objects don't have feelings.

sananeko
12-08-2009, 12:02 AM
I just they forgot the sign that says don't abuse the machine or injuries can happen.

lestat1
12-08-2009, 12:28 AM
No, I have never had unprotected sex with anyone whose current STD status was unknown.

Also, I don't see how these things relate to forcing yourself on someone sexually. I don't consider "doing drugs" to be the same thing. I can't even begin to understand how it could be.

My intent was not to equate the three. If it were, or if I were looking for more extreme examples, I'd have asked why do people torture, or why do people murder. The problem with those questions (I assume) is that you haven't tortured or murdered anyone. So you can't answer those questions from your own experience. You can, however, probably answer the questions, why do you speed when you know you shouldn't, why do you illegally download copyrighted music? However, juxtaposing those two things next to sexual assault, even though comparison is not my intent, would likely ruffle a few feathers or offend someone (understandably). So, I went with common yet more severe things where people might be hurt or killed. The intent was to have you answer the question "why do I sometimes do bad things that could hurt people when I know I shouldn't?"

I generally think one has to understand a problem before it can be solved. It's easy to say "the terrorist is evil, the rapist is evil, the murderer is evil" and be done with it. That doesn't get us anywhere towards understanding and solving the problem. The drug world is a violent one, and many people die in the cycle that brings drugs from where they're produced to the end user. Doesn't that drug user care that they fund an industry killing people? Why do they choose to do drugs, knowing the harm they're causing? Well, I don't do drugs and I can't answer that question. So maybe once we answer to ourselves "why do I sometimes do bad things that could hurt people when I know I shouldn't?" we're a tiny fraction of the way towards understanding Mr. Sexual Assaulter. And so we're a tiny fraction of the way towards coming up with solutions to not have someone turn into Mr. Sexual Assualter.

mediocrity
12-08-2009, 12:34 AM
I don't think the guys who grope us realize that they are doing anything wrong. We're not people to them. The dancer is like a vending machine, and the sex act is like the candy bar stuck inside. They feel they've paid for the candy bar, and they will shake the machine until it comes out. If they break the machine, it's no big deal, because objects don't have feelings.

I feel like a lot of the men on this site are of this persuasion.

Athenathefabulous
12-08-2009, 12:38 AM
I don't think the guys who grope us realize that they are doing anything wrong. We're not people to them. The dancer is like a vending machine, and the sex act is like the candy bar stuck inside. They feel they've paid for the candy bar, and they will shake the machine until it comes out. If they break the machine, it's no big deal, because objects don't have feelings.

oy id like to think better of people than this, but thinking of the guy on friday who tried to stick his finger up my butt before knowing my name, i cant really refute this analogy.

fortunately, the customers who fit this description are in the minority. otherwise i would go crazy and/or broke!

lestat1
12-08-2009, 12:39 AM
I don't think the guys who grope us realize that they are doing anything wrong. We're not people to them. The dancer is like a vending machine, and the sex act is like the candy bar stuck inside. They feel they've paid for the candy bar, and they will shake the machine until it comes out. If they break the machine, it's no big deal, because objects don't have feelings.

That makes sense. At work when we devise a short-term solution to deal with some issue temporarily while working out a long-term solution, we call it a "workaround." So, while a long-term solution that makes these guys understand the whole "dancers are humans with feelings concept" and prevents these incidents is best, maybe there are "workarounds" that hammer the message home and at least reduce these incidents in the meantime? For example, human stage names (Julie, Laura, Mary) instead of object names (Mercedes, Ruby, Dallas)?

I'm not trying to shift blame here or anything. If someone murders me it's the murderer's fault, but I'm still going to do whatever I can to not get killed, like locking my doors and windows at night. :p

lildreamer316
12-08-2009, 01:33 AM
That makes sense. At work when we devise a short-term solution to deal with some issue temporarily while working out a long-term solution, we call it a "workaround." So, while a long-term solution that makes these guys understand the whole "dancers are humans with feelings concept" and prevents these incidents is best, maybe there are "workarounds" that hammer the message home and at least reduce these incidents in the meantime? For example, human stage names (Julie, Laura, Mary) instead of object names (Mercedes, Ruby, Dallas)?

I'm not trying to shift blame here or anything. If someone murders me it's the murderer's fault, but I'm still going to do whatever I can to not get killed, like locking my doors and windows at night. :p


Ok now I've got to weigh in here with an observation about your observation;and attempt to not get too far off-topic from the OP.

But what you are implying here, despite the declaration that you aren't trying to 'shift the blame', is sort of just that.

NOW
Before you go jumping to the feeling that I'm saying you are shifting blame; I want you to realize that you're not seeing the big picture here..the blame does need to be shifted a bit, but not onto either the dancers or, completely, on the customers who are insisting on this contact.

Part of the blame; in fact a decent-sized part of it; falls (in this order) on the owners, managers and bouncers/floormen in an establishment where this happens. If the club's policy is no touch/no grind; then the owners->managers->floorman's job is to uphold and enforce that. Not only does it create a better atmosphere for the dancers (one assumes that dancers who have decided to work at this establishment should have a reasonable expectation that the rules that the establishment has made for itself would, you know, be applied and followed); it also provides a consistent level of entertainment/service that customers will come to understand. In other words, no one is saying that a customer does not have a right to what he wants; but in this particular place he will be encouraged to not expect that particular level of 'service' from this particular club.

Sure, we all know that in the real world; a place that purports to be clean and no-touch/no grind is probably not so much so,but haven't we all seen the result of the pendulum swinging TOO far in the other direction? This very problem from the OP is a result of the lax and lazy attitudes stemming from greedy owners, who hire greedy, incompetent and uncaring managers; who in turn hire the same in floormen and etc. Eventually you have clubs that have no entertainment value to speak of, and are viewed by almost all customers and dancers alike as nothing more than glorified whore-houses. Sounds a lot like what we're seeing today. Just like in most things in life, there's a happy medium to be found between pleasing the customer at all costs and having air-dances forever, everywhere.

...and the best dancers suffer for this trend that this OP is strong evidence of. I've seen it over and over here; on other sites; and from reports from friends and stripper 'family' over the last few years. So to suggest that the dancer need to be more aware of her name choice so as not to add to the perception that she is seen as an emotion-less machine is, at this point, galling in the extreme. But I understand that you probably don't really have the experience that my perception and time as a dancer has given me. I know that comes off sounding condesending; and I don't mean it that way..we just have different life experiences that have given us different perspectives on certain subjects. My time happens to have been spent as a stripper, so that is what I understand and know about. I'm sure there are tons of things you know much more about, from intimate experience, than I do.

The better part of a solution here is to hopefully find a way to impress upon the owners; managers or bouncers/floormen that it ends up being a more pleasant, more cooperative and ultimately more profitable workplace when they work with us as entertainers to enforce these rules (and really, to just insist on a baseline of decent behavior;going beyond which one will not tolerate) instead of expecting us to look out for ourselves. It's going to take a bit of effort on their part; something that many of them have not extended themselves to since the mid-to-late '90s. But I've seen it happen,(and so have others!) so I know it is not only possible; but ..profitable!

However; here is where I come to the brick wall in my argument/assertion: I have no wonderfully great ideas about how to bring about this 'renaissance' in owner/manager/floormen thinking; or as you said; create a viable 'workaround' that includes this concept..I just know it has a better chance of happening (through the fact that they will realize they've hit a profit wall by allowing such behaviour to continue..and believe me; they ARE hitting that wall!) than that there will be a mass customer 'revelation' of wrong behavior - LOL.

I don't think there really IS a 'workaround' for this; and to be honest; there shouldn't be. It's of enough import that it needs to be addressed directly and completely. To do any less is to relegate us (entertainers/strippers) to even worse work environs that we currently deal with - not including our mental and physical health.

My apologies to the OP for going a slight bit off-topic; although I feel it really is not so far off.

Hopper
12-08-2009, 05:49 AM
^thanks, it's actually the title of a song.. is why I chose it. It's my SN but it's not my actual stripper name. I'd feel silly with a stripper name like Penny, not to mention I'm SURE I'd get asked if I was worth a penny allllllllll the time.

More likely they would say you are worth more. Though that joke would get boring too.

Pretty_Penny
12-08-2009, 09:44 AM
I feel like a lot of the men on this site are of this persuasion.


So do I, but I also feel that way about a large % of the strip club customer base in general these days.

Pretty_Penny
12-08-2009, 09:51 AM
oy id like to think better of people than this, but thinking of the guy on friday who tried to stick his finger up my butt before knowing my name, i cant really refute this analogy.

fortunately, the customers who fit this description are in the minority. otherwise i would go crazy and/or broke!


Yesterday I had a customer tip me a dollar on stage and then reach around me and try to put his hand between my leg, all he got was a really firm ass grab, but I snapped. I grabbed both his hands, started bending his left pointer finger back and said "I -WILL- break your finger if you try anything like that again". He said "I didn't mean to offend you, I didn't mean any disrespect" to which I responded "How can you not be disrespectful/offensive when you're trying to put your fingers in my crotch???" he just kept repeating "I'm sorry I'm sorry please let go" ... I DID let go.. then he tried to keep yelling "HEY, HEY COME BACK, IM SORRY" at my while I was on stage. I walked past him for a second and said "Seriously, just walk away right now and stop talking to me". A few minutes later his friend came over and apologized for him. UHG. The best part is, when I told another girl about it in the DR a few minutes later she said he tried it with her -before- me (she was before me on stage). She told him he couldn't do that there, etc. So the "I'm sorry I didn't know" stuff? Total BS of course. So, once again I'm left feeling like a customer knowingly sexually assaulted me because he felt like his dollar entitled him.

Golden_Rule
12-09-2009, 11:50 AM
I don't think the guys who grope us realize that they are doing anything wrong. We're not people to them. The dancer is like a vending machine, and the sex act is like the candy bar stuck inside. They feel they've paid for the candy bar, and they will shake the machine until it comes out. If they break the machine, it's no big deal, because objects don't have feelings.

RIGHT!

Not that it happens, but the stereotyped [and obviously incorrect] feelings being used as the basis for such behavior by this type of customer.

It does go to the heart of precisely what I've been talking about for ages though, in that it is the nature of certain negative aspects of S-Cs that either allows these misconceptions to flourish or draws the kind of people who form them. Customers about dancers and dancers about customers and management about both.

I am not saying it would be easy, but it is addressable if enough people wanted it addressed.

Other than that its basically accept its not likely to change and that lamenting it, while it might help blow off some steam, is only going to do just that and nothing more.

Golden_Rule
12-09-2009, 11:55 AM
I feel like a lot of the men on this site are of this persuasion.

Don't include me in that. I like people, and dancers to me are people.

I am a proud member and supporter of the M.I.C. school of thought.

The dancer and customer talk, Mutual Informed Consent is established. Everyone knows what is what. No one gets more or less than what was mutually agreed upon. No emotional or physical distress because everyone is on the same page.

Everyone in S-Cs should practice it as it would go a long way to resolving the very problems people complain about on these pages.

lildreamer316
12-09-2009, 02:28 PM
^^^^But here's the problem with that..a lot of people -dancers included- on this thread are assuming (and it's an understandable assumption) that it is the dancer's and customer's responsibility alone to make clear and keep clear these boundaries.

ANYone who has worked in the industry(even just the regular bar industry) knows that it's a losing proposition to expect the customers to rise to this level of behavior on a regular, consistant basis. There are just too many factors and too many customers..it's not going to happen. For you to put forth the idea that the M.I.C school of thought would even be a realistic option is a bit of a flight of fancy. Realistically, neither a majority of entertainers or customers are going to have the time or initiative to do so.

UNLESS someone were to be there to ..oh, I don't know..enforce the rules. And restrict entrance to those that have proven they can abide by them on a fairly regular basis. Gee, wonder who could do that?

The stripper is the entertainment provider; she risks losing the allure of the fantasy she is providing if she also has to be the enforcer. Then she loses money. Again, this is part of the reason so many of us are having a hard time (as compared to money a few years ago/in the 90s - of course the economy is to blame also). The enforcer is there to take the weight of enforcing off of the entertainer's shoulders..so that she can entertain, for god's sakes..not have to have six arms and eight eyes. Talk about not getting a good dance! How can one give any sort of personal good attention when one has to fend off roving hands every five seconds?

In other words...it's not our job to do this, nor should it be. No one expects Beyonce to do her own crowd control and catch every person that pirates a song of hers, do they? Sorry for the on-the-fly analogy that isn't quite the same, but you get the idea.

Golden_Rule
12-09-2009, 03:32 PM
^^^^But here's the problem with that..

Ok. Things to ponder but while I'm doing so please consider this...



In other words...it's not our job to do this, nor should it be. No one expects Beyonce to do her own crowd control and catch every person that pirates a song of hers, do they? Sorry for the on-the-fly analogy that isn't quite the same, but you get the idea.

The point is no one is expecting Beyonce to do anything but sing and dance. There is communication in the form of knowing her act and thus knowing precisely what you'll get if you purchase a ticket.

There is so much different stuff going on in strip-clubs that no one, dancer or customer alike, can say they understand whats going to happen to, or for, them in the LD room or VIP when they head back there. Not unless they've taken a little time to talk and get on the same page before hand.

And why wouldn't one, on either side of the equation, if they want to experience less problems not do precisely that: Get on the same page before hand.

Seems to me the only people who wouldn't are those who might think there is some benefit to be gained by keeping everything obfuscated. Letting the illusion of something more aid in selling on the part of the dancer, or excusing bad behavior on the part of the customer.

Seems to me if that was to be the case neither party should have a complaint about the lack of being forth-coming allowing for as much of a chance for a negative outcome as a positive one as they knew [or should have known] the risk:benefit ratio of not being on the same page with the other person involved going in.

whghost
12-12-2009, 02:14 AM
You seem to have said similar things on here repeatedly. That you don't understand why any guy would basically pay for conversation unless he's really "pathetic" or "lonely" or is deluded into thinking there's a relationship.

And I've said many times that almost all of my regulars (aside from one) are strictly pay-for-conversation customers and I promise you that none of them fit any of those descriptions. You don't understand that concept because it's not what -you- choose to do. I don't see why you have to look down on guys who act otherwise.

Also, sometimes we honestly DO like the customer and like spending time with him. Just because we aren't interested in dating them doesn't mean we don't enjoy their company.

It seems ironic!! If the guy is ok with paying dancers just for conversations, then he is odd to me. I know that he may compensate her for taking her time away from doing dances. Dancers do come and chat for a little to see if you want some dances. If she is awesome, I would repeat and chat. Guys who don't respect the dancers should be kicked out. Maybe he sees you dance and you allow one customer do something and may think it was ok. But if you said no, he should respect that. On the other hand, I had dancers who is ok with contacts and then we go to the vip and she then take money and then she act as if she did not agree with the terms she agreed to. She played me, basically. Why does she do it? Guess, she is in the business for short term and she prefer to con. I always ask the dancer to what she is ok with. Sure, there are rules, but some dancers do stretch it or brake it in the vip. I don't agree with guys who force things, but it seems funny that girls are ok with guys who give money for free!!! I have had dancers who talked with me for an hour and no dances. She left without any money, but it was her choice. Same is for that guy who paid a girl for a conversation. That guy must be spending his money from a project from his job. I would never give money for free. It should be for dances or more.

whghost
12-12-2009, 02:37 AM
Ok. Things to ponder but while I'm doing so please consider this...




The point is no one is expecting Beyonce to do anything but sing and dance. There is communication in the form of knowing her act and thus knowing precisely what you'll get if you purchase a ticket.

There is so much different stuff going on in strip-clubs that no one, dancer or customer alike, can say they understand whats going to happen to, or for, them in the LD room or VIP when they head back there. Not unless they've taken a little time to talk and get on the same page before hand.

And why wouldn't one, on either side of the equation, if they want to experience less problems not do precisely that: Get on the same page before hand.

Seems to me the only people who wouldn't are those who might think there is some benefit to be gained by keeping everything obfuscated. Letting the illusion of something more aid in selling on the part of the dancer, or excusing bad behavior on the part of the customer.

Seems to me if that was to be the case neither party should have a complaint about the lack of being forth-coming allowing for as much of a chance for a negative outcome as a positive one as they knew [or should have known] the risk:benefit ratio of not being on the same page with the other person involved going in.

I agree!! You and the girl should be on the same page. There are a few girls who are not making the money and would be ok with anything. Then she turns on you in the vip after you already paid her. That is why I try not to pay upfront! I know that I have dancers complain that men would trick dancers and don't pay either. I guess Trust is the issue here. I would like to know why dancers would agree and then turn around and breach the agreement.

chris91
12-12-2009, 09:13 AM
I don't agree with guys who force things, but it seems funny that girls are ok with guys who give money for free!!!

Money for conversation is not money for free. That's why we keep referring to it as "paying for my time" and not "paying for nothing."

We are ok with guys paying for our time, because our time is valuable and we have bills to pay.

yknought
12-12-2009, 11:39 AM
I dunno... I have a really hard time believing that these guys have so little self control within a strip club. Throughout the course of a year, they probably spend about 1% of their time in the club yet these same guys are able to refrain from this behavior the other 99% of the year.

They may be able to fool their families, friends and peers for most of the year but within the club, their true colors show revealing the assholes they really are.

Unfortunately, there is little to no accountability when it comes to customers breaking rules. Club staff/management are inconsistent when it comes to enforcing the rules and so problem customers continue the bad behaviors.

I think Bob nailed it here. IN a word, these morons are simply disrespectful. And I'd suggest you walk away in spite of the lost revenue. There are enough others (myself included) that you wouldn't have to consistently remind of the rules. We like to play by those rules...more fun for everyone in my opinion.

Pretty_Penny
12-12-2009, 12:31 PM
For about the millionth time on this board:

There are other forms of entertainment provided by dancers OUTSIDE of lap dances.

A customer paying me for my time, who does not get dances, is not "giving me money" for "free". That's completely ridiculous. He is paying me to entertain him in the way -HE- chooses. It doesn't matter if that means talking to him about his problems (therapy style), talking about sex, telling jokes, giving backrubs/scratches/etc. It's however he chooses to spend that time. I don't see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

I'd also like to note that many of the customers who pay for conversation will tell you that lapdances (without extras) are a waste of time and money. It's a matter of perception. And I'll point out yet again that the majority of the men I've met who tip well for conversation have been the complete opposite of "lonely losers". They are usually wealthy, socially skilled, businessmen. I find many more loney losers to be the guys trying to get as much contact for as little money possible.

starz86
12-12-2009, 01:11 PM
also i have a question when i was recently giving a dance he kept pulling my face to his to kiss me and saying kiss me for nearly 2min of the song i had 2 keep pulling away and saying no i cant do that and i wont. then he stoppd for a few seconds and i thought hey it workd but then he did it again and only did two dances and left the building... it is rude to keep trying to kisss a dancer its like Would you just walk up to a girl at A BAR and try kissing her and when she turns u down u keep doing it in public??? NO u wouldnt so take same respect to dancers and kissing is not an option

whghost
12-12-2009, 11:07 PM
I have not seen very many men who just want to speak with a dancer at a club. Most want the dances that are the intent of a strip club. Some dancers would straight out ask if you want a dance. Others would sit down and introduce herself and start a conversation that leads to asking if he is interested in a few dances. It is just an approach. If we were to get into a good conversation, she would have chat for several minutes. Then the guy may get a few dances, say 3. She earned any where from 30 to 60 dollars depending on the rate. She earned it by spending an hour or two with him. Guys who pay a dancer for no dances and just for chatting time are giving other guys a bad rap sheet. Just like dancers who con customers saying that she would do extras and then don't and worse, she doesn't even dance. These girls are giving other dancers a bad rap sheet, too. So, dancers will run into jerks like customers will run into women who are thieves or con artists. I have a regular dancer who provide what I want and I give her a steady income. We are both happy.

Pretty_Penny
12-13-2009, 04:47 PM
I have not seen very many men who just want to speak with a dancer at a club. Most want the dances that are the intent of a strip club.

You don't "see" them because you don't see them paying girls for conversation. You see guys getting lap dances. How do you know that the guy sitting at the bar for 2 hours with the same girl isn't paying her?

Athenathefabulous
12-13-2009, 04:58 PM
I have not seen very many men who just want to speak with a dancer at a club. Most want the dances that are the intent of a strip club. Some dancers would straight out ask if you want a dance. Others would sit down and introduce herself and start a conversation that leads to asking if he is interested in a few dances. It is just an approach. If we were to get into a good conversation, she would have chat for several minutes. Then the guy may get a few dances, say 3. She earned any where from 30 to 60 dollars depending on the rate. She earned it by spending an hour or two with him. Guys who pay a dancer for no dances and just for chatting time are giving other guys a bad rap sheet. Just like dancers who con customers saying that she would do extras and then don't and worse, she doesn't even dance. These girls are giving other dancers a bad rap sheet, too. So, dancers will run into jerks like customers will run into women who are thieves or con artists. I have a regular dancer who provide what I want and I give her a steady income. We are both happy.


most of the dancers who get paid for conversation do not con the customers or promise extras. usually they are excellent conversationalists to the point where the conversation itself becomes entertainment and therapy even more so than the dances. These girls give a good rap for to dancers because they are a lot of fun to be around. And they are willing to dance too, assuming the customer wants a dance (are exceptions-- maybe wont dance for a rude customer).

And customers paying entertainers for the conversation doesnt give guys a bad rap. If a guy comes to a strip club and his fantasy is to have a really awesome conversation with a hot girl and that is what he considers entertainment, then its his right to pay for it. No laws are being broken or boundaries being pressed. And some guys want the girlfreind experience and want the time with the dancer to be mostly conversation wtih a few dances. since this is time consuming , the dancer is not going to invest an hour of conversation and acting like she is on a date if he will only buy one or 2 dances at the end, so therefore he pays her for the conversation too as it is using her time and is a very important part of the fantasy (for him). Some guys just want dances, which is totally cool (so pay for dances) and some guys want mental stimulation as well as visual stimulation, which is also cool.

What is not cool is heckling dancers for extras. That is what gives guys a bad rap.

whghost
12-15-2009, 04:07 AM
What constitute a fair rate for just conversation? $ 50 per hour?

Earl_the_Pearl
12-15-2009, 06:07 PM
What constitute a fair rate for just conversation? $ 50 per hour?
10 times that; talk isn't cheap in a SC.

Pretty_Penny
12-16-2009, 12:01 AM
What constitute a fair rate for just conversation? $ 50 per hour?

Depends on how busy it is and what some girls consider "fair" is far different from others. I would say that on average, from the regular customers I have personally had who paid for conversation alone, it's about 100 an hour.

Yeah, you're probably thinking "omg! 100 an hour!" but it's really not that much. I know girls who'd scoff at that number. Dances at my club are 20 bucks. Songs are about 3 minutes long. So, there's about 20 songs in an hour. -IF- I were dancing to each of those songs.. that would be 400 dollars. Even half of those songs would be 200... twice as much as what I quoted for conversation.


Like I said though, PLENTY of girls would you tell you 300, 400, etc.

Golden_Rule
12-16-2009, 12:14 PM
There are other forms of entertainment provided by dancers OUTSIDE of lap dances.

A customer paying me for my time, who does not get dances, is not "giving me money" for "free". That's completely ridiculous. He is paying me to entertain him in the way -HE- chooses. It doesn't matter if that means talking to him about his problems (therapy style), talking about sex, telling jokes, giving backrubs/scratches/etc. It's however he chooses to spend that time. I don't see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.


Totally agreed and not hard to grasp the concept at all.

My only issue with same has come when some [I said some] dancers think the sales pitch should be compensated and include that in the definition of "entertaining".

IOW, if I choose to purchase from you conversation [I wouldn't but that doesn't mean its not a commodity others might be interested in], a back rub, etc, than certainly you should be compensated. We have mutual informed consent. You are giving me something for which I have agreed to pay.

My problem, and again its the only problem, is when I have not requested anything and a dancer comes over and plops herself down attempting to make a sale and when I make it clear I am not interested asks [sometimes demands] payment for her time in making the sales pitch. There is no M.I.C. in such situations. I didn't request her presence and didn't contract for any services. Why would a dancer think, under those circumstances, she is entitled to get paid?

If we can agree on that then we see totally eye-to-eye on this issue.

Phil-W
12-16-2009, 01:59 PM
...I would say that on average, from the regular customers I have personally had who paid for conversation alone, it's about 100 an hour....

Dances at my club are 20 bucks. Songs are about 3 minutes long. So, there's about 20 songs in an hour. -IF- I were dancing to even....half of those songs would be 200... twice as much as what I quoted for conversation.

Splitting hairs here I know, but would the money for convo be classed as a tip, and hence you keep the bulk of it? Whereas, if a customer paid for dances, the club would want its cut.

Presumably this narrows the differential some....

Phil.

Pretty_Penny
12-17-2009, 07:04 PM
Totally agreed and not hard to grasp the concept at all.

My only issue with same has come when some [I said some] dancers think the sales pitch should be compensated and include that in the definition of "entertaining".

IOW, if I choose to purchase from you conversation [I wouldn't but that doesn't mean its not a commodity others might be interested in], a back rub, etc, than certainly you should be compensated. We have mutual informed consent. You are giving me something for which I have agreed to pay.

My problem, and again its the only problem, is when I have not requested anything and a dancer comes over and plops herself down attempting to make a sale and when I make it clear I am not interested asks [sometimes demands] payment for her time in making the sales pitch. There is no M.I.C. in such situations. I didn't request her presence and didn't contract for any services. Why would a dancer think, under those circumstances, she is entitled to get paid?

If we can agree on that then we see totally eye-to-eye on this issue.

Oh I totally agree with you. Personally, I ask the customer if he wants company and I invest about 5-15 minutes (depending on how the convo is going, how busy the club is, etc) before asking for a dance. If he says no to the dance or hasnt made it clear yet that he'd like to pay me for convo/backrubs/etc, that is when I will tell him (in a much smoother way than how I'm saying it here) that I can't just sit with him for free and that I need to be compensated. Usually I don't have to get that far because they've made it clear by then anyway. If they decline that offer as well I just cut my losses and move on.

Pretty_Penny
12-17-2009, 07:07 PM
Splitting hairs here I know, but would the money for convo be classed as a tip, and hence you keep the bulk of it? Whereas, if a customer paid for dances, the club would want its cut.

Presumably this narrows the differential some....

Phil.

My club takes a % of -all- the money we make. Tips/dances/etc. Of course, they only COUNT the dances so technically a dancer could lie about how much she made and not tip accordingly, but I never do. Also, if they see a customer giving you money, you walking around with it in your garter even though you havent danced, etc.. it's pretty obvious.

charlie61
12-17-2009, 07:11 PM
Sounds like my "Why do customers want to touch the dancers" thread from awhile ago. Got a number of interesting responses.

starz86
12-18-2009, 01:51 PM
as said 2 posts ago, my club does the same takes a % of the dances and the half hour and hour room. they should NOT take out the % of the half hour and hour because they already take 200 out of the 400$ half hour and then then 200 out of the 600$hour room, which to me is a rip of for the half because sometimes u have to tip a floor guy which is stupid since they already are getting hourly, then on top of it all they % us out of the rest 200 that we have. i would rather make more in the 30$ dance room and only get the % taken out! they try to lure girls in to get the hour and half hour when in reality they would make more in the 30$ if they had a brain.because in the 30$ they can't touch much but in the half and hour they can do what they want to do if the dancer allows it, which is considered a whore house then.i dont mind my club to work at since it is one of the only spots to actually work now and try to make some money but the % and house with all this other shit to pay is crazy!

mediocrity
12-18-2009, 02:19 PM
10 times that; talk isn't cheap in a SC.

For me it depends on how ugly and/or stupid you are. I believe in the Idiot Tax.

J.D.
12-18-2009, 02:24 PM
^^^^^ Exactly. I will charge the maximum amount that I think I can get away with. Most guys are total clueless suckers.

yknought
12-18-2009, 02:34 PM
^^^^^ Exactly. I will charge the maximum amount that I think I can get away with. Most guys are total clueless suckers.

ouch... that honesty (the "total clueless suckers" part) kinda hurts a little.:ouch::ouch:

mediocrity
12-18-2009, 02:39 PM
^^ Part of this occupation is learning how to be really manipulative. Some of the shit that I spout I am AMAZED people will believe. Sometimes, I just tell them really outrageous stories so I can see what they will believe (I once told a guy I was Brazilian and he bought it. Anyone wo has seen me would die laughing at this suggestion.) Doesn't keep me up at night.

J.D.
12-18-2009, 02:44 PM
ouch... that honesty (the "total clueless suckers" part) kinda hurts a little.:ouch::ouch:

I know, sometimes the truth hurts. :'(

Earl_the_Pearl
12-18-2009, 02:50 PM
^^ Part of this occupation is learning how to be really manipulative. Some of the shit that I spout I am AMAZED people will believe. Sometimes, I just tell them really outrageous stories so I can see what they will believe (I once told a guy I was Brazilian and he bought it. Anyone wo has seen me would die laughing at this suggestion.) Doesn't keep me up at night.

He might not have believed it but what difference does it make what a dancers tells a PL in a club. I went into a club I had never been in and was told totally B.S. stories by dancers but I'm not about to give a darn.

This obviously Jersey Girl told me she was borne in Brazil and adopted when she was three by an American family. She had no accent and thought Brazil was a Spanish speaking country. She could not speak a word of Spanish BTW. Now that I think about it she was probably from Pennsylvania.

Earl_the_Pearl
12-18-2009, 02:51 PM
I know, sometimes the truth hurts. :'(

You mean your only about the money? ::)

mediocrity
12-18-2009, 02:58 PM
He might not have believed it but what difference does it make what a dancers tells a PL in a club. I went into a club I had never been in and was told totally B.S. stories by dancers but I'm not about to give a darn.

This obviously Jersey Girl told me she was borne in Brazil and adopted when she was three by an American family. She had no accent and thought Brazil was a Spanish speaking country. She could not speak a word of Spanish BTW. Now that I think about it she was probably from Pennsylvania.

It works when you can fake your way through a language and are bilingual to begin with.

I can swear effectively in seven and I always tell them I'm really saying something sweet.

Hopper
12-18-2009, 04:43 PM
^^^^^ Exactly. I will charge the maximum amount that I think I can get away with. Most guys are total clueless suckers.

And you wonder why I hold on to my money with both hands.

Earl_the_Pearl
12-18-2009, 04:48 PM
It works when you can fake your way through a language and are bilingual to begin with.

I can swear effectively in seven and I always tell them I'm really saying something sweet.
So when you tell me your are from Brazil and I say hola como estas you can answer me in Spanish?

Earl_the_Pearl
12-18-2009, 04:51 PM
And you wonder why I hold on to my money with both hands.
I never show them the money; they can no longer make eye contact and I feel like a piece of meat.