View Full Version : Woman 1, intruder 0
ArmySGT.
12-16-2009, 12:47 AM
Do I get the impression you are a 1911 man Sgt? When the balloon goes up, I'm coming to your house for ammo and SPAM! 8)
I have a M1911A1. All tricked out too. Carry a Glock 17 and when I have to dress up nice a snub SP101 5 shot .357 Magnum.
Better bring your own . Mmmmmm fried spam with horse radish and cheddar.
Golden_Rule
12-16-2009, 10:53 AM
Thanks E for the great post. It should be remembered how many people who buy guns have them used to kill members of their own families and themselves, instead of rapists and robbers. The statistics are as horrifying as the home invasion stories.
Absolutely true. Even officers have their guns taken from them and used against them. It can happen to anyone who loses the upper-hand in a confrontation and control of their weapon.
Owning a weapon of such power that it can easily take someone's life is a serious thing. While the right to own such weapons should not be removed from law abiding citizens they should come with reasonable obligations attached to their maintenance.
In my opinion gun owners, handguns specifically, should be required to:
1) show a proficiency and safety with their guns on a regular basis.
2) be required by law to carry handgun owner's insurance, just like you need auto insurance to drive your car, that would cover them due to incidents involving the use of their weapon.
3) Gun retention training would also be highly recommended.
BTW, I do all of the above myself. My guns are safe, always. I take every precaution to make sure they will never be stolen and used criminally against others [strong gun safes, highly fire and theft resistant and mounted securely].
I qualifying twice annually to maintain my nation wide RPO/CCW and carrying specific insurance of $1.5M that covers me should there ever be an incident involving the use any weapon by myself. [Umbrella policy with a specific rider]. So I practice what I preach.
The rights of ownership of anything brings with it accompanying responsibility.
Dj, I trust we are all keeping good thoughts toward the continued improvement of your stepfather and for yourself and your family.
I have a M1911A1.
Only one?! What's that like?}:D
In my opinion gun owners, handguns specifically, should be required to:
.
If at all possible, lets not allow this thread to go into a gun rights debated thread. I have my agreements and lack there of to your comments, but I was hoping this thread would remain about supporting - specifically - women's rights to self defense and helping to make them aware that they do in fact have options when faced with life threatening events neither 911, ROs, or wishful thinking can solve....;)
Golden_Rule
12-16-2009, 11:07 AM
The gun I wanted was a Taurus Judge, capable of firing small shotgun type rounds. I still might buy one, but not to kill criminals in Daytona with.
Interesting choice.
I will point out something though if you don't mind. If you use .410 shotgun shells in it the "pepper" size shot won't have enough knockdown power to stop someone intent on harming you or someone you are trying to protect. Especially if they are high on something at the time. With .45 caliber long Colt ammo it will have a lot more knockdown power but the kick when firing it will likely make it hard to control for an inexperienced user.
For that reason I wouldn't recommend it for home defense unless by someone who is serious about learning how to fire multiple rounds from a handgun with a sizable "kick" as it can be a real "wrist breaker" otherwise.
And if I buy one I will sure as shit learn how to use it properly.
Outstanding!
Golden_Rule
12-16-2009, 11:13 AM
If at all possible, lets not allow this thread to go into a gun rights debated thread. I have my agreements and lack there of to your comments, but I was hoping this thread would remain about supporting - specifically - women's rights to self defense and helping to make them aware that they do in fact have options when faced with life threatening events neither 911, ROs, or wishful thinking can solve....;)
Ok.
Just for the record though the point of the post was that which was in bold, not gun rights. I only posted the opinion part in support of the more important point that with the ownership of anything comes accompanying responsibility.
BTW, totally agree with the above. In my community policing days I taught a woman's "anti-rape" self-defense course.
Ok.
Just for the record though the point of the post was that which was in bold, not gun rights. I only posted the opinion part in support of the more important point that with the ownership of anything comes accompanying responsibility.
Not that I disagree with the general sentiment, but it's a topic that can go into a vast well of directions, that ultimately comes down to gun rights issues, which I hope we could avoid. I'm not a mod, so you can also tell to F off and and continue...
BTW, totally agree with the above. In my community policing days I taught a woman's "anti-rape" self-defense course.
Did you teach them 2 to center mass and 1 to the head, or to empty mag into groin, and repeat as needed? 8)
Golden_Rule
12-16-2009, 11:54 AM
Not that I disagree with the general sentiment, but it's a topic that can go into a vast well of directions, that ultimately comes down to gun rights issues, which I hope we could avoid. I'm not a mod, so you can also tell to F off and and continue...
Nope. :) Never refuse a polite request.
Did you teach them 2 to center mass and 1 to the head, or to empty mag into groin, and repeat as needed? 8)
Actually it was a hand to hand course. The specifics of it revolved around the use of every day items found in a purse [combs, keys, nail file, the purse itself, etc] to help aid in defense and bare hand techniques if nothing was available.
Though my favorite thing to advise women to purchase was, and still is, the Monadnock Persuader.
http://www.batons.com/persuader.html
Placing an extra keyring and keys on it makes it a perfectly legal key chain in most states. Yet with a little training it makes an excellent self-defense weapon and can be carried in the hand with little suspicion or law enforcement issues. I trained my wife in the use of one. She uses it as her regular key chain and takes it with her everywhere.
I frequently carry one myself. VERY effective if you know how to use it. In fact just the other day I had a situation where I surprised some jackass who was breaking into my car in a shopping mall parking lot. Didn't have to pull the Glock, and deal with its extra paperwork and other issues, and I would be lying if I said the effects of the Persuader weren't more satisfying. We had a lovely little "chat" while we waited for the locals to arrive and cart him off.
Now watch, the asshole is probably going to sue me for beating him up for breaking into MY car. What a country. {sigh} Well, that is what the insurance is for... :)
Nothing beats "gun-fu" but there are other effective ways to defend ones self. ;)
ArmySGT.
12-16-2009, 01:12 PM
Only one?! What's that like?}:D
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Gunstuff/IMGP1625.jpg
Just one? Oh you can never have just one. M1911A1s breed like rabbits dude.
Like poker never show your hand.
Just one? Oh you can never have just one. M1911A1s breed like rabbits dude.
Exactly. You can't own one 1911. 3 is the absolute minimum allowed by JMB.
Like poker never show your hand.
Rgr, rgr. My favorite are the guys on the gun forums who list their entire collection in their sig line. Genius...
ArmySGT.
12-16-2009, 01:29 PM
There are places to have a 2A discussion on SW without the Lounge. They created Social Groups with the last change but, everyone forgets they are there.
There are places to have a 2A discussion on SW without the Lounge.
I'm more then happy to have it in the lounge (and have as you recall!), but figure not in this thread if possible as to not go way OT to the OP.
ArmySGT.
12-16-2009, 02:04 PM
Just pointing it out. Most folks forgot they are there and some others don't know.
Think of them as a private board, or private room (ha ha!) Might be the best place for pics since it won't be visible to guests and trolls as they arrive.
Any way to Djoser.
The Judge is in my opinion a gimmick. It doesn't have enough rifling to stabilize a .45 Long colt cartridge and too much for a .410 gauge shot shell.
BTW .410 Gauge and .45 Long Colt being an oddity their case dimensions are close enough to function in a gun chambered for either. Just needs to be a strong enough action for the powder charge and pressures.
The .45 Long colt keyholes (tumbles and hits sideways) causing a miss as it may slice and curve through the air. The .410 shot shell has a pattern like a donut. The micro rifling (.001 depth) has enough grip on the shell to spin the shot cup. This throws the shot open and to the sides making a pattern like a donut.
The only really recommended load for a Taurus Judge is the 000 or Triple Ought. this is three .32 caliber pellets stacked. They will spread under four inches and hit simultaneously causing more severe damage as the shcok waves compete with each other rippling through the body.
I recommend the Glock 17, Seventeen rounds of +P nine millimeter is a comfort if you need to go out at night, or investigating that noise downstairs.
The Judge is in my opinion a gimmick.
Agreed. Taurus is always more about gimmick then reality, not to mention their QC is bad, and their CS, even worse.
X Evan X
12-16-2009, 02:31 PM
I will echo the quality control issues of Taurus weapons. A security guy at a local club racked a round and the gun discharged. Most of the bullet went into the dancefloor and some shrapnel went through his thumb. They have a policy against carrying anything made by Taurus in that building now.
-E
I will echo the quality control issues of Taurus weapons. A security guy at a local club racked a round and the gun discharged. Most of the bullet went into the dancefloor and some shrapnel went through his thumb. They have a policy against carrying anything made by Taurus in that building now.
-E
Now that's a sign I would like to see: "Carry of firearms in this building is allowed, as long as it's not a Taurus! Signed, the management."
If you are in security, and you carry a Taurus, you are in the wrong business. Just sayin'...and I am not even going to ask why he was racking rnds in said building...:shocking:
X Evan X
12-17-2009, 03:29 AM
He was a new guy. This is Atlanta and that club is downtown, they carry condition-1 at the end of the night so I suppose that's why he chambered it. It happened after all the customers had already exited the building.
My close friend is head of security there. He didn't like Taurus to begin with but that incident was the impetus for the ban on any Taurus for his employees.
-E
Golden_Rule
12-18-2009, 11:40 PM
If you are in security, and you carry a Taurus, you are in the wrong business. Just sayin'...and I am not even going to ask why he was racking rnds in said building...:shocking:
True, but along the same lines if you are in law enforcement and you carry a single action only semi-auto its the wrong gun for the job. I certainly wouldn't want, or allow, anyone carrying one to be standing behind me. :) Cocked and locked isn't fast enough for that kind of work. Cocked and unlocked isn't safe enough.
True, but along the same lines if you are in law enforcement and you carry a single action only semi-auto its the wrong gun for the job.
It's not the wrong gun for the job, it's the wrong gun for most LEOs who are not trained beyond the basics, and also are not terribly good about maintaining the weapon, etc. I agree with Hilton Yam, who has forgotten more on the topic than both of us combined:
"For a dedicated and knowledgeable end user, the 1911 has no equal. For non-dedicated personnel, they are better served by a modern, low maintenance weapon such as a Glock, SIG, or HK."
I would add to that list - because he wrote it prior to their existence, the SA-XD series and SnW MnP series.
I certainly wouldn't want, or allow, anyone carrying one to be standing behind me. :) Cocked and locked isn't fast enough for that kind of work. Cocked and unlocked isn't safe enough.
I don't agree at all. Safety is about training. I agree 100% most LEOs should not carry 1911s in Condition One as their side arm, and are better off with modern duty weapons listed above, but that has everything to do with the LEO's training (or lack there of) and nothing to do with the gun. Again, Hilton Yam:
"A tuned 1911 is a high performance machine capable of allowing the skilled user to reach his maximum performance potential."
That's a fact, any why your high speed combat shooters, such as
LAPD SWAT, USSOCOM, USMC Det-1, USMC MEUSOC, FBI HRT, FBI SWAT, etc, etc, to name just a few, all choose the 1911 "cocked and locked" as you say, ergo, Condition One, as their weapon of choice.
The 1911s, carried in Condition One (which is how they were designed and intended to be carried...) are not for everyone, but the 1911 is still the king of combat handguns, has been for 100 years, and probably will be, for 100 more.
Earl_the_Pearl
12-19-2009, 12:45 PM
The 1911s, carried in Condition One (which is how they were designed and intended to be carried...) are not for everyone, but the 1911 is still the king of combat handguns, has been for 100 years, and probably will be, for 100 more.
In Infantry combat like Afghanistan there may be a few .45 and they are carried by officers. I assume a rifle is not dignified and they don't have to walk point.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/s100000/s191143.jpg
There are few rare occasions where a pistol is the only way to go but one really doesn't want to go there. A low yield nuclear weapon would do a better job.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t130/mikeyjsc/tunnelrat-1.jpg
In Infantry combat like Afghanistan there may be a few .45 and they are carried by officers.
It's a moot issue. Handguns are total last ditch weapons for the military, other then a few key groups who use them for CQB. I do know plenty of contractors who take their favorite 1911 with them when in country and or plenty of guys who, if given the option, would take it in a heart beat over the current issue gun.
Standard issue is currently the Berreta 9mm, unless you are in on of the groups I listed above, as well as a few others I didn't
Almost Jaded
12-19-2009, 11:25 PM
I would add to that list - because he wrote it prior to their existence, the SA-XD series and SnW MnP series.
I am by no means a gun expert, I am a beginner who knows just enough to not get into trouble. But I'm posting this just to say - my business partner has a 9mm SXD and LOVES it, and so does everyone who fires it, including me (though I prefer smaller pistols for myself).