View Full Version : Sentimental attachments in strip clubs
bem401
01-27-2010, 05:29 PM
I Unless you are actually going to someone's house, doing things together etc you aren't real life friends from the club. By OTC, I don't think that even means always sexual either.
Absolutely true. Having some sort of involvement unrelated to the club is what I consider RL.
Kellydancer
01-27-2010, 08:15 PM
Absolutely true. Having some sort of involvement unrelated to the club is what I consider RL.
Then if you are getting together with dancers out of the clubs, then yes you'd be real life friends. My regular who became a friend who became a boyfriend is an example. We've gone various places after the club. Now the issue of getting together where a customer pays to get together is a little more tricky. I would be very reluctant to consider this a real life friend situation if it involves money. I mean I've done various bachelor parties for regulars but I wouldn't consider them real life friends since they only know me as my dancer persona. My boyfriend knows the real me. He even admitted that he forgot my stage name because he's known me under my real name much longer.
yoda57us
01-27-2010, 08:54 PM
other than one club customer (who thought it was maybe semantics) and yourself yoda, its well known in the club that Bem and her dancer "friends" while hanging out are definitely not "real life" and maybe Bem needs to tell his "friends" to explain this to everyone else the real nature of it, because (oddly) its seems they are not aware of it.
and when you find this out, during your next visit, you can post your correction in here.
WC, you keep missing my point. I'm not defending BEM. I know everything I need to know and I know it all first hand, not via pm. Do I care? Nope, what's between BEM and his stripper friends is between BEM and his stripper friends. IRL,OTC,ITC or whatever initials you wish to use you keep forgetting one thing. He doesn't tie these girls to a chair in the club or wherever else he sees them. They know he's not going to spend money on them so if they choose to spend time with him it's on them. That's all I need to know.
I won't be posting any corrections...don't hold your breath...
yoda57us
01-27-2010, 08:56 PM
As long as those girls don't tell Bem, directly to his face, "you are NOT my friend", then all of this is for naught.
Bingo!
WestCoast101
01-27-2010, 11:33 PM
i hope this winds it up, and what Bem has or doesn't have with his dancer friends, will cointinue being whatever it was.
yoda, his basic facts(claming IRL friends status) are wrong, so his theories are wrong, his cheap ass approach to dancers does nothing one way or the other on the "friends" issue.
i do get it, you got what you need to know, and I got what I need to know. evidence his basic theories are flawed.
and Bem certainly is not tying anyone to a chair ITC or imposing himself on his 2 " club of choice" dancers, different people will attest that he is legiitimate club friends with these dancers, and while there might be some incidental OTC contact, the big picture which is common knowledge at the club, is that this is absolutely not a "real life" situation the way Bem had been describing it in here.
both these dancers form his centerpiece example of his theories expressed in numerous posts over many months about how ceasing being a customer permitted in his case for the friendship to develop and how conventional customer-dancer arrangements(i.e.spending real $ for dances) are inferior in this regard, and are just not for him, and it was mutually decided to take it to higher true friendship level, and how he (and she) just could never respect anyone that might pay to talk, and customers that pay dancers are really paying employees, and can never be "friends" in real life..
Bem of course recently (faced with insiders speaking the truth) had to opt for his 3 card monte shuffle the cards strategy and pretend that his earlier comments over many months were really mostly about other dancers (club of choice #2?, more at same club? he's not saying)
bem knows other dancers and his perhaps friends of some nature with some of the, butr he Knows (and others know) his posts on his primary dancers about being "real life" (OTC plaonic) friends will is higly deceptive.
that concludes as far as I am concerned, i've have what i need to know.
Hopper
01-28-2010, 01:30 AM
I don't know why being friends with strippers OTC is a big deal in the first place.
WiseGuy_TX
01-28-2010, 05:18 AM
...lets now sing along together> "Stripper Friends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9o7LJRhHIs)"
yoda57us
01-28-2010, 07:45 AM
that concludes as far as I am concerned, i've have what i need to know.
Lol, which is still nothing...
I don't know why being friends with strippers OTC is a big deal in the first place.
It isn't. WC insist on trying to make it a big deal...I guess he's just bored...
bem401
01-28-2010, 11:04 AM
Nice try, bringing up a a red herring non-issue. No one is accusing or has accused Bem of claiming he is having sex or a romantic relationship with the dancers he has referenced.
The issue is very simple and anyone who reviews Bem's posts for the past year will note the following:
1. Bem has consistently been claming for the better part of one year now to have developed "real life" friendships with certain dancers.
2. that these are (as it turns out) two dancers who work at his "club of choice"
3 with at least one of these dancers, or maybe both, he was once a customer but by "mutual agreement" ceased being a customer, and thus Bem believes his non-customer status somehow makes real friendship possible, and that paying customers can never actually be 'real life' friends with dancers because they are among other things treating dancers as "employees", and (at times) alternatively is claiming that their "friends" status itself made the continuation of the dancer ciustomer relationship impossible.
4. at various times he makes vague references to other dancers but is never specific but the vast bulk of his posts very clearly refer to these same two dancers at this one club.
5. Its only after this recent challenge (one earlier by me on the Prolonged Efford thread in August) that he has tried to explicitly claim he is really talking about other dancers.
Here is the problem:
Multiple parties that work at or are familiar with the club and the individuals involved say Bem is either misguided or delusional, and while he spends club time with certain dancers w/o spendiing any significant money, he is absolutely not "real life" friends as the term "real life friends" (e.g. OTC platonic friends) is normally defined.
Bem really only goes to one club in his city, having been banned from his old club of choice.
So he is only taking about one club and for the most part about these 2 dancers.
Everyone ready for this? I'm going to guess West Coast is either another identity for Yoda, a friend of Yoda's, or an idiot easily manipulated by Yoda. He is arguing the same points with me Yoda has for a couple of years and Yoda appears to be siding with me to a certain extent, thus distancing himself from West Coast.
The mere fact that West Coast makes reference to past posts that preceded his arrival here and seems to have spent hours investigating things I've posted is one reason to be suspicious. Another reason is that there is no way on Earth four dancers from the club I visit would suddenly take exception to what I've written and be motivated to contact a relatively new poster here who comes from 3000 miles away with criticism of what I've posted that includes nothing derogatory about them or their job. On top of that, these PM's were supposedly sent last week. I've posted minimally here in the last few weeks and have barely been to the club for a month. All they supposedly did was put out info that Yoda has offered in the past that they'd have no access to. One of my friends has actually told other dancers I do pay her. I'd be willing to bet the average dancer in the club with whom I have no involvement has no idea about the nature of my relationships with various girls. To the best of my knowledge, none of the club dancers have any involvement with this site. If these girls actually existed and felt that way, they'd have posted themselves or made an issue of it in the club with me or the people I'm friendly with.
All that's happening is an attack on me is being presented here that appears to be coming from someone other than Yoda or the girls whose asses he makes a habit of kissing.
If I'm wrong, tell me who they are, show their PM's or have them approach me, my friends, or a third party in the club to confirm their existence. Otherwise I'll assume I have shown these posts to have no basis.
bem401
01-28-2010, 11:09 AM
Then if you are getting together with dancers out of the clubs, then yes you'd be real life friends. My regular who became a friend who became a boyfriend is an example. We've gone various places after the club. Now the issue of getting together where a customer pays to get together is a little more tricky. I would be very reluctant to consider this a real life friend situation if it involves money. I mean I've done various bachelor parties for regulars but I wouldn't consider them real life friends since they only know me as my dancer persona. My boyfriend knows the real me. He even admitted that he forgot my stage name because he's known me under my real name much longer.
Kelly, I have the same sort of involvement outside the club with girls who dance as I do with girls who have nothing to do with dancing. That's all I ever said. Our involvement has virtually nothing to do with the fact that they are strippers or that i occasionally patronize the clubs. Compensation is never part of the equation either.
yoda57us
01-28-2010, 12:37 PM
BEM, you are on crack. Don't flatter yourself by thinking that I care enough about busting your balls to go through the trouble of creating a second identity.
If you carefully read my posts you will see that I am not really defending you at all. I am merely reminding mr. WC that he has no way of verifying anything posted on this web site be it a post from you or a pm from someone who claims to know you. That is my way of saying that you may well be full of shit but anyone who has sent him a pm may be also. I have admonished you in the past about getting into too much detail about a few dancers that you and I may both happen to know here on this site. Why on earth would I start a string of posts that threaten to go down that very same road?
Honestly, when have I ever been afraid to attack you using my very own handle? When have I ever said that you are lying about anything? I don't. I simply call you a cheap time-waster which is exactly what I think you are. As I have told you a thousand times I don't know the vast majority of your "friends" nearly as well as you seem to think I do. If you are concerned that your "friends" are ratting you out behind your back you really need to reconsider your loyalties with them, not question how badly I want to bust your balls. I don't need to sneak around behind your back. It's not my style. Your posts right here on SW give me plenty to laugh at and more than enough to criticize. You are the one who engages in junior high gossip, not me.
Of course, the mere fact that your mind can even come up with something like this simply proves once again that you are truly obsessed with me...
KS_Stevia
01-28-2010, 02:04 PM
I, also, am obssessed with you, yoda.
That's me, 40 feet from you, in the building across the way, with the binoculars. Now get naked and dance for me!
yoda57us
01-28-2010, 10:21 PM
I, also, am obssessed with you, yoda.
That's me, 40 feet from you, in the building across the way, with the binoculars. Now get naked and dance for me!
I am naked in a hotel room in Miami! I'm 30 floors up so I didn't bother to close the curtains. Enjoying the show?
I was gonna go back down to the hotel bar, drink some more Mojitos and oggle the gorgeous cuban bartender but I think I'll just stay here and ponder your post KS...You sure know how to raise a guy's spirits! }:D
I suppose that was you behind the Ficus tree in CT last week too eh?
WestCoast101
01-29-2010, 01:31 AM
here we go again, more bullshit, i got news for you, yoda didn't put me up to anything, your cliams about "real life" stripper friends were raising red flags from the moment i started reading them last summer, and i called it bullshit from early on, got absurd responses, and let it go, figured what the hell, you are notr going to answer, then you pushed the bullshit level even higher over the last few months, so then i started asking you more specific question, and by that time it was not just me noticing your non answer answers and evasions, it was others, and one of these who for whatever reason maybe doesn't like cheap ass "time-wasters" maybe doesn't like someone bragging about being "real life" friends with dancers that they knew for sure was a delusional exaggeration on your part, well, they got sick of it was bullshit, so she contacts me and lays it out with precision, but, saying its no big deal, its just to set the record straight this one time, she figured (naively as it turns out) that you might come clean with your statements or backoff the bullshit., but instead you respond with even more evasive bullshit, more delusional claims. so then you got a problem, so the problem isn't her or any other person she then comments to about your bullshit at the same club or another club, and that person contacts me because they know your bullshit., or yoda, or someone else sick of your bullshit, its you and your continued delusional ideas about what "real life"friends are and your repeated attempts to inject yourself into dancer's lives not only your current club but the club you got banned from a yr ago for similar issuers and bullshit, and as for your absurd ideas of what constitutes an otc "connection" to make it "real life"to, as one source now tells me "pretty much anything" and you think you are real life friends.
here is a comment typical of many of yours from last august. .
"The notion to stop doing dances is as often theirs as it is mine. Yet, we remain friends IRL and in many cases, I know their families. The dances just no longer work. Funny, most of those girls have admitted to me they wouldn't pay someone to hang out with them either. I place no time demands in the club on any of my friends who work there ( nor would I ever consider doing so ). And none of them ever feel guilty when they don't have time for me ITC ( nor should they"
my source has line by line explained to me why every sentence in that statement is either flat out lies, half-truths, or highly misleading, for starters its not their decision at all, your donh't spend and they know its a waste to ask,, nothing more,, and as for "knowing the family" well going to the family business on your own because you find this out, and becoming a customer of that business, doesn't not count as knowing the family, because no one asked you to go to that business, you have a pattern and more than a few people know this pattern, so you need to stop the delusions and stop injecting yourself into dancer lives.
Hopper
01-29-2010, 04:57 AM
^What you need is a "bem401's bullshit" thread.
JoeUnCool
01-29-2010, 07:25 AM
Who can we enter under the "Douchebags you meet in a Strip Club" thread winner?
JoeUnCool
01-29-2010, 07:39 AM
BEM, you are on crack. Don't flatter yourself by thinking that I care enough about busting your balls to go through the trouble of creating a second identity.
If you carefully read my posts you will see that I am not really defending you at all. I am merely reminding mr. WC that he has no way of verifying anything posted on this web site be it a post from you or a pm from someone who claims to know you. That is my way of saying that you may well be full of shit but anyone who has sent him a pm may be also. I have admonished you in the past about getting into too much detail about a few dancers that you and I may both happen to know here on this site. Why on earth would I start a string of posts that threaten to go down that very same road?
Honestly, when have I ever been afraid to attack you using my very own handle? When have I ever said that you are lying about anything? I don't. I simply call you a cheap time-waster which is exactly what I think you are. As I have told you a thousand times I don't know the vast majority of your "friends" nearly as well as you seem to think I do. If you are concerned that your "friends" are ratting you out behind your back you really need to reconsider your loyalties with them, not question how badly I want to bust your balls. I don't need to sneak around behind your back. It's not my style. Your posts right here on SW give me plenty to laugh at and more than enough to criticize. You are the one who engages in junior high gossip, not me.
Of course, the mere fact that your mind can even come up with something like this simply proves once again that you are truly obsessed with me...
Yoda, trying to have an intelligent discussion with some people is hopeless. They can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, they don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear, and they absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are .....
Honestly, some of the suppossed guys in this thread (not naming names), read like Kim and Laura (http://forum.stripperweb.com/showpost.php?p=1876071&postcount=4001). if I didn't know better, I'd swear that they are related to Laura. If they were girls, I'd suspect that they were Kim. They are just trashing everyone with no semblance of normalicy. I feel so sorry for the women that have to deal with them.
If I was a moderator, I'd ban them. There are horrific psychological issues that have been shown in this thread.
yoda57us
01-29-2010, 09:06 AM
Fortunately JUC my only goal when I log on here is to be entertained and relieve a bit of the boredom associated with a job that has a fair amount of travel and "down time" associated with it. Highly intelligent discourse is really not the goal.
I have no idea who Kim and Laura are but this particular thread reminds me more of junior high school locker and cafeteria talk than anything I've read since...well, junior high school!
bem401
01-29-2010, 09:58 AM
here we go again, more bullshit, i got news for you, yoda didn't put me up to anything, your cliams about "real life" stripper friends were raising red flags from the moment i started reading them last summer, and i called it bullshit from early on, got absurd responses, and let it go, figured what the hell, you are notr going to answer, then you pushed the bullshit level even higher over the last few months, so then i started asking you more specific question, and by that time it was not just me noticing your non answer answers and evasions, it was others, and one of these who for whatever reason maybe doesn't like cheap ass "time-wasters" maybe doesn't like someone bragging about being "real life" friends with dancers that they knew for sure was a delusional exaggeration on your part, well, they got sick of it was bullshit, so she contacts me and lays it out with precision, but, saying its no big deal, its just to set the record straight this one time, she figured (naively as it turns out) that you might come clean with your statements or backoff the bullshit., but instead you respond with even more evasive bullshit, more delusional claims. so then you got a problem, so the problem isn't her or any other person she then comments to about your bullshit at the same club or another club, and that person contacts me because they know your bullshit., or yoda, or someone else sick of your bullshit, its you and your continued delusional ideas about what "real life"friends are and your repeated attempts to inject yourself into dancer's lives not only your current club but the club you got banned from a yr ago for similar issuers and bullshit, and as for your absurd ideas of what constitutes an otc "connection" to make it "real life"to, as one source now tells me "pretty much anything" and you think you are real life friends.
here is a comment typical of many of yours from last august. .
"The notion to stop doing dances is as often theirs as it is mine. Yet, we remain friends IRL and in many cases, I know their families. The dances just no longer work. Funny, most of those girls have admitted to me they wouldn't pay someone to hang out with them either. I place no time demands in the club on any of my friends who work there ( nor would I ever consider doing so ). And none of them ever feel guilty when they don't have time for me ITC ( nor should they"
my source has line by line explained to me why every sentence in that statement is either flat out lies, half-truths, or highly misleading, for starters its not their decision at all, your donh't spend and they know its a waste to ask,, nothing more,, and as for "knowing the family" well going to the family business on your own because you find this out, and becoming a customer of that business, doesn't not count as knowing the family, because no one asked you to go to that business, you have a pattern and more than a few people know this pattern, so you need to stop the delusions and stop injecting yourself into dancer lives.
Reading this post and a few of your others thoroughly leads me to think I may owe apologies to both West and Yoda. Your prior posts West were clearly influenced by someone with an ax to grind or some mental problems of their own. There is absolutely no way they're coming from random dancers at the club I visit an hour or two a week. As I read this post more thoroughly and combined it with one of your previous posts, it became clear to me who that may be (Yoda, I apologize).
If it's who I think it is, I was a former customer of her's and I pulled the plug on it. The information to which you refer are things she'd know of and possibly have opinions on. She has never been among the dancers I am thinking of here or commenting on here when I speak of friends. Her narcissism might be the reason she things the comments referred to her. Yoda knows who she is and she's the only dancer I've heard him not speak well of. Oddly enough, I've generally been her defender because she is the target of a lot of animosity and amusing stories by others who might have once considered her a friend but were put off by her. She has had a track record of bizarre behavior known to anyone who has interacted with her.
For the record, my interactions with dancers are what they are. My presence in the club is very low-key. I don't deter any girl I know or don't know from making money. I place no expectations on anyone when I go and several of the girls have or have had to have involvement with me in some way away from the club in matters unrelated to how they make a living. It's nothing I've ever tried to force on any of them. It's nothing I ever planned to have happen. I've just been willing to help people if I ever found myself in a position to do so and I quite often find myself in such a position because quite often a lot of the dancers i know could use some help. And by the way, when I claim to know certain dancers' families well, the one you mentioned above is not one of them. Those family members are acquaintances at best. The ones whose families I'd say I know well are those I've had far more interaction with, usually involving tutoring, golf instruction, socializing, or using my connections to open a door or solve a problem for them.
I really kind of hope the PM'er turns out not to be the person I suspect though I'll be shocked if there is a single other dancer in the club who has any problem whatsoever with my presence there. Otherwise there'll unfortunately be more amusing stories to go around the club when I run my theory by some people, which I'll probably do later on this afternoon.
bem401
01-29-2010, 10:16 AM
I have admonished you in the past about getting into too much detail about a few dancers that you and I may both happen to know
I've not given too much detail about anyone. You and I just see things from different perspectives. The idea that these women are sex workers and you are a customer influences how you see them and conclusions are jumped to that were never intended or considered in the first place. I view them and speak about them apart from that but my comments can be misinterpreted like we agreed upon in post #287. I don't even want to get into the ridiculous conclusion you jumped to when you received that photo I sent to a load of people on my email list a few years ago. People are amazed at that story.
KS_Stevia
01-29-2010, 01:17 PM
I've not given too much detail about anyone. You and I just see things from different perspectives. The idea that these women are sex workers and you are a customer influences how you see them and conclusions are jumped to that were never intended or considered in the first place. I view them and speak about them apart from that but my comments can be misinterpreted like we agreed upon in post #287.
There ya go again, being all douchey and all-mighty because the rest of us are paying customers and you, ARE NOT.
If you are NOT a paying customer in the club, you are a pest, and no one wants you there. But no one is going to kick you out because dancers don't have that power, and club owners care most about selling their own commodities.
You are NOT better than yoda, or ANY OF US HERE INCLUDING MYSELF who would never be insolent as to sit in a club for hours a week not spending a dime on the girls, not even stage tipping. Just because you don't have to spend money on the girls doesn't mean you shouldn't. Go get your dinner at a regular restaurant, cheapass.
At my clubs, those guys were considered scum, and we made a good point on stepping on their toes with our stilleto when we "bumped" into them, spilling their drinks on them, and being flat out rude and miserable to them, trying to run them out.
Oh, and yoda is a personal friend of mine, as well as friends with other strippers/ex-strippers I know. And he has never been ANYTHING but a gentleman and a friend, and treated us like real normal humans (what other way would anyone treat a person, but I digress). I have zero doubt that he is a great client to the ladies he visits and they enjoy their time with him personally and professionally. Hell, I've spent many hours with him at no cost (except for a few drinks) and it was great fun.
Bem, to spend time with you...holy shit, someone would have to give me a FORTUNE! :(
WestCoast101
01-29-2010, 02:19 PM
good, now i can enjoy my weekend without being on a guilt strip about causing a shit storm in here
and its not like you don't have defenders with one even recontacting me a 2nd time emphasing there is a larger picture i don't get, something like that.
meanwhile you either pissed off some people itc or at another club, or maybe you are a symbol of cheap ass guys, not sure, but either way, people know you, and some have some comments about you, and take exception with your "friends" ideas and similar things.
you say your "low key" but you did say you've gone to one club lik3 to 4 times a week for 5 yrs and there no claims not anything but a gentlemen in the club, however your in a small market, with fairly easy identification for certain of your "friends" for those in or affialated with the business in your market, so its hot alwayslow key overall, given that this site in past yrs has had as many as 2000 viewers on line, less now for lots of people anyways
and comments like this are just one of many that express an attitude that rubs some the wrong way, especially those whose paycheck depende upon paying customers.
"I understand the dancer/customer dynamic just fine. I certainly understand the dancers' motivations. I just don't participate in it myself any longer. The fact that its been decided that I am not a customer doesn't hamper my comprehension skills."
and you don't think that an 99 other annoying comments similar might piss people off now and then?.
yoda57us
01-29-2010, 11:13 PM
I've not given too much detail about anyone. You and I just see things from different perspectives. The idea that these women are sex workers and you are a customer influences how you see them and conclusions are jumped to that were never intended or considered in the first place. I view them and speak about them apart from that but my comments can be misinterpreted like we agreed upon in post #287. I don't even want to get into the ridiculous conclusion you jumped to when you received that photo I sent to a load of people on my email list a few years ago. People are amazed at that story.
Oh please Bem, your such an idiot OK. The only "conclusion" I jumped to when you put me on a list of people that you sent the same picture to was that I didn't want a group of total strangers to have my email address. At that point in time I trusted you. That incident combined with several other exchanges we had eventually proved to me that you are indiscreet and can not be trusted. You gossip like a fourteen year old and now you are paying the price.
yoda57us
01-29-2010, 11:23 PM
Hell, I've spent many hours with him at no cost (except for a few drinks) and it was great fun.
Not nearly enough hours my dear...;)
bem401
01-30-2010, 11:28 AM
Oh please Bem, your such an idiot OK. The only "conclusion" I jumped to when you put me on a list of people that you sent the same picture to was that I didn't want a group of total strangers to have my email address. At that point in time I trusted you. That incident combined with several other exchanges we had eventually proved to me that you are indiscreet and can not be trusted. You gossip like a fourteen year old and now you are paying the price.
Yoda, I sent that picture to 30 or so people. It was a photo of a 13 yr old female golf student of mine bundled up playing golf and winning a big tournament and it appeared online and in magazines. Everyone on the list knew I had such a protege. Exactly one person, you, somehow or other thought it was kiddie porn despite the fact that she was bundled up to the max. People were amazed that anyone could be that way inclined. The other exchanges we had involved you seeing everything from the perspective of a customer who views club girls as little more than sex workers and any comments I made involved them being sex workers, which couldn't have been further from my intent.
Funny, you say I gossip indiscreetly but previously gave me credit for not corresponding indiscreetly with you.
bem401
01-30-2010, 12:28 PM
meanwhile you either pissed off some people itc or at another club, or maybe you are a symbol of cheap ass guys, not sure, but either way, people know you, and some have some comments about you, and take exception with your "friends" ideas and similar things.
you say your "low key" but you did say you've gone to one club lik3 to 4 times a week for 5 yrs and there no claims not anything but a gentlemen in the club, however your in a small market, with fairly easy identification for certain of your "friends" for those in or affialated with the business in your market, so its hot alwayslow key overall, given that this site in past yrs has had as many as 2000 viewers on line, less now for lots of people anyways
and comments like this are just one of many that express an attitude that rubs some the wrong way, especially those whose paycheck depende upon paying customers.
"I understand the dancer/customer dynamic just fine. I certainly understand the dancers' motivations. I just don't participate in it myself any longer. The fact that its been decided that I am not a customer doesn't hamper my comprehension skills."
and you don't think that an 99 other annoying comments similar might piss people off now and then?.
West, my problems at the other club involved me only in that I intervened in someone's problem when her supposed friends were unfortunately entertained by it and it was brought to my attention by another dancer. The friends made up an untrue story to get even with me.
Look, I don't fault any of you for what you do. I was a generous model customer for a few years. That just stopped working between me and several of the dancers I befriended over time. When threads start dealing with sentimental attachments unrelated to the nature of the business, I think I have relevant input. I'm not lacking for attention any time I visit and several of these girls would avoid me like the plague both inside and outside the club if they actually viewed me as a pest (I got an email and a text about non-club issues from 2 dancers already today). The ones I'm friendliest with have no interest in me being a customer, in some cases even at the stage.
I've never claimed to be better than anyone else, KS. Different strokes for different folks. Some of the girls I'm friendly with will hang with me till customers (historically Yoda's been one of them) show up and they leave me immediately to do what they're there to do in the first place. If they have no problem with that and I have no problem with and actually encourage that, why do some here seem conflicted with it? Is it because I'm not giving money to girls, some of whom i have contact with away from the club, for their time when others have to pay for their time? All that being said, I'm not that omnipresent in the club either, a couple of one hour visits a week is about it.
KS_Stevia
01-30-2010, 01:42 PM
The girls are totally enabling you. Or, you have some information they want to extract from you. OR, they want to look busy so other customers think they are in demand. Or..so that other dancers and staff don't bother them.
I've sat with some regulars before just to shoot the shit and gossip when I was bored. However, at one point or another, that regular had bought dances and/or tipped me. Guys who come into the club and never spend any money are pathetic to me, and do not deserve any attention from any dancer. And your type is ubiquitous. Depending on the club, a lot of these guys prey on the new girls coming in, who don't know the club politics. So these guys just LOVE to let the new girls waste their time trying to sell, then brag about not being a customer and about being FRIENDS with people at the club. Its fucking laughable.
As Judge Judy would say, "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!"
Hopper
01-30-2010, 06:51 PM
I'm having difficulty working out exactly what bem401 does in SCs. He says he does not buy dances from (or even tip?) strippers he is friends with, because they prefer he doesn't or he prefers not to or both. He also sseems to be saying he is not a customer at all, even for the strippers he is not friends with (ITC or OTC - I don't know).
If he is not a customer at all, doesn't even tip, then why is he there? For drinks and a free watch of the stage shows? To see his stripper friends in their spare time? To advise new strippers on club plitics and best stripper practice?
I'm just saying I'm not clear on what he does. If he is not a customer, he is still not above customers (though he says above that he doesn't think he is), since he is still in the club. He just doesn't pay the strippers.
WestCoast101
01-30-2010, 11:55 PM
the following issue came up by chance a bit, however
Bem, you've mentioned the other day about a certain dancer taking you into her confidence in regards to some personal info, well, one of your defenders claims - in regards to the same issue, but in reference to what you stated on a thread in March 2008 (in regards to what this same dancer confided to you around that time) - that that by itself (he says) provides definitive proof that claims in regards to "real life" have to have a significant element of truth at least with this dancer.. The reason, as he explained, was that particular issue she confided in you was absolutely important to her at that time, and that it be kept limited to very few people, and she certainly never would have shared it with a mere "pest", nor would she confided it to someone with mere "club friends" status, as he states, this was a very important issue for her.
of course some might wonder whether it was wise for you to post that info in here at that time, but that's another issue, involving how annonymous once thinks it is in here, and how well you kept the secret, but it does go to the heart of what your saying, and it certainly brings it up to a semantics issue to some degree with this dancer, but not sure whether is proof positive on the issue.
also while some of my info is not always consistent,, my overall impression still suggests your "real life" definition still is on the unusual side, and you appear to use a rather low threshold to label something "real life" friends status etc., but that is why i kept asking for specific examples and so forth
hope this winds it up to some degree.
yoda57us
01-31-2010, 12:23 AM
Yoda, I sent that picture to 30 or so people. It was a photo of a 13 yr old female golf student of mine bundled up playing golf and winning a big tournament and it appeared online and in magazines. Everyone on the list knew I had such a protege. Exactly one person, you, somehow or other thought it was kiddie porn despite the fact that she was bundled up to the max. People were amazed that anyone could be that way inclined.
As usual you are trying to sidetrack the original issue because you have no defense. I was pissed because you sent me a random email and put my email address in a forwarding list and sent it to everyone else on that list along with the photograph. Girl? Golf? Magazine? Who the fuck cares? I didn't understand what the point was back then and I still don't. I don't know you BEM. I'm a guy on a strip club board and you are emailing me pictures of 13 year old Asian girls....OK, nothing weird there...
The other exchanges we had involved you seeing everything from the perspective of a customer who views club girls as little more than sex workers and any comments I made involved them being sex workers, which couldn't have been further from my intent.
Oh Please! Again, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and my POV regarding how I view these women was and is irrelevant. What you were doing, before I finally got fed up with your BS gossip and told you to stop sending me emails, was discussing private conversations that you had with dancers and telling me details about their lives that I really had no business hearing. I'm pretty sure, since you were always telling me not to mention our emails when I saw those same dancers in the club, that you knew what you were doing was bad. You have the balls to imply that I was pissed at your written indiscretions because I view dancers as sex workers? What I view them as is people and people have a right to assume that their private conversations will actually remain private. You called them friends and yet you gossiped behind their backs by sharing details of their private conversations simply so that you could present yourself to a stranger on the internet as an insider in their lives. Guess what BEM, real friends don't talk about their friends to strangers...at least not after they get out of junior high school...You sold them out to impress a total stranger.
Funny, you say I gossip indiscreetly but previously gave me credit for not corresponding indiscreetly with you.
Um, at this point I find it hard to believe I gave you credit for anything but if I did it was probably unrelated to what we are talking about here...
The point BEM is that, to you, I am a total stranger. You read a review I wrote of a club visit and emailed me to tell me that we know some of the same dancers. That would have been fine but then you started gossiping to me about them. You don't know me BEM! For all you know I could have been a stalker, the SO of one of those dancers or just a perv on the internet who could have started posting about all the shit that you were telling me. Indiscreet is the fucking understatement of the century!.
WestCoast101
01-31-2010, 11:15 AM
as a general rule, forgetting the issue with Bem because his issue has some complexity to some degree, however as a general rule, i think you can describe a type of scale, here using yoda's term, sort of like hurricanes, with CAT 1 not too bad and CAT 5 horrendous
CUSTOMERS WHO PISS OFF DANCERS SCALE
1. cheap ass time wasters
2. cheap ass time wasters that claim to be ITC "friends" with dancers
3. cheap ass time wasters that claim to be ITC and RL "friends" with dancers
4. cheap ass time wasters that claim to be ITC and RL "friends" with dancers and brag about it.
5. cheap ass time wasters that claim to be ITC and RL "friends" with dancers and brag about it and also write about it on sites like Stripper Web.
yoda57us
01-31-2010, 11:28 AM
as a general rule, i think you can describe a type of scale, here using yoda's term....
1. cheap ass time wasters
I'd love to take credit for the phrase but it came from an Asian dancer I know in Providence...
I don't think that dancers are as interested in categories as customers seem to be. You are either spending money or you are not. You are either a pain in the ass or you are not...
bem401
01-31-2010, 11:54 AM
of course some might wonder whether it was wise for you to post that info in here at that time, but that's another issue, involving how annonymous once thinks it is in here, and how well you kept the secret, but it does go to the heart of what your saying, and it certainly brings it up to a semantics issue to some degree with this dancer, but not sure whether is proof positive on the issue.
also while some of my info is not always consistent,, my overall impression still suggests your "real life" definition still is on the unusual side, and you appear to use a rather low threshold to label something "real life" friends status etc., but that is why i kept asking for specific examples and so forth
hope this winds it up to some degree.
What info are you talking about? What info have I posted? I have no idea what you are referring to. Please enlighten me. I've really only discussed activities in the club. I've never identified myself, the girls, the issues, or the clubs. You've even criticized me for my lack of specificity.
Real life is anything unrelated to club life or sex worker life afaiac. I've said that several times. Its just interaction that has nothing to with the person's job. I have met several dancers over time with whom our interaction has moved out of the club into something unrelated to the club. And its not something necessarily intense either. How do you define real life?
Look, I have a part-time job that is very similar in structure to what dancers do. I give golf lessons at a golf facility where I pay a fee to operate. I have scheduled clients that come in periodically. I have down-time between lessons which I sometimes share with friends or former clients who might happen to be on the premises. I don't expect them to pay me for time I spend with them only because I am unoccupied. I might even throw them a pointer or two while standing with them waiting for my next client. I ditch them the minute my time clock starts running when a client comes in. If I'm busy while they're there, they might get no more than a wave from me. To me, this is no different than the situation my dancer friends and I find ourselves in when I go the club where they work. I have no problem with what transpires in the club any more than what transpirs in at the golf facility.
yoda57us
01-31-2010, 12:49 PM
OK, for what it's worth BEM as much as I bust your balls about being a "time-waster" I have also stated quite often that your "friends" are choosing to sit with you.
Comparing yourself and your job to what a dancer does in a strip club is quite a stretch though. I am also self employed and spend a fair amount of time waiting around to make money. The difference is that you and I both schedule our appointments. Unless something cancels we pretty much know what we are going to make when we go to work. Dancers don't. They pay a house fee so that they can go into the club and look for business all day. Any time they spend with you is wasted time. While I understand that it is their decision I will never understand why you think that talking about it on a site populated primarily with strippers and customers of strippers won't annoy a few people.
LOL, don't try to compare what you do to what dancers do BEM. You don't have the legs for it...
WestCoast101
01-31-2010, 01:39 PM
you really are an idiot. you were mouthing off about how one of your dancer "friends" recently confided to you about a new high paying OTC sugar daddy and you later described where she stood on the club totem pole with, near the top, You must be so arrogant you think dancers and others affiliated with strip clubs must be a total idiots, and cannot kinow or guess who you are talking about, especially when you are talking about certain dancer "friends" for years over and over again in here.
the lack of specificity issue came up precisely to find out what the hell "real life" meant to you because you were tap dancing all over the place when anything was asked in this regard, you could have explained it in a way that didn't compromise any integrity, instead it came off like you were evading the issues, sorry that is the way it looked, and why would saying "yes, we go to dinner together otc as platonic friends" or "yeah, she has visited my house as friends" or here is how i know her family, why the hell would that all of a sudden bring up some confidence issue?
Bem, do you have a problem with social skills, because i am beginning to believe it, and yoda's mention of those emails only confirms this. Do you understand that you are probably on the largest stripper site in the world, and that 1000's of people, most not even signed up, look at the posts in these site, often concentrating on comments relating to a particular market and the clubs they are guessing people are referring to, and that some of these people are in your market might be able to guess at, or make an educated guess, and maybe later on figure out to a high degree of probability who the hell you are talking about? especially retroactively, and especially when they have club info on that precise matter?
one of your detractors brought up this issue as an example of how she believes dancers, in one of two clubs you been hanging at in recent years, may act as sort of 'enablers" for you rather distorted view of dancers of what makes dancers "real life" friends and other b.s. and when i checked the precise issue it occured to me this if this was a major issue, this instead mighti instead provide proof to some degree that some of your "real life" claims have some merit, and that's why i ran it by your one supporter, "wouldn't this be be thing"? whether this issue was a big thing or not, and his response and he was insistent that this was a very critical issue for this dancer, and he explained why in detail, and this is why i posted it, as a type of partial exonneration on you, but for all i know he is full of shit because other info i got on you is suggesting some kind of social skills issue.
bem401
01-31-2010, 01:52 PM
As usual you are trying to sidetrack the original issue because you have no defense. I was pissed because you sent me a random email and put my email address in a forwarding list and sent it to everyone else on that list along with the photograph. Girl? Golf? Magazine? Who the fuck cares? I didn't understand what the point was back then and I still don't. I don't know you BEM. I'm a guy on a strip club board and you are emailing me pictures of 13 year old Asian girls....OK, nothing weird there...
Defense for what? Sidetracking what? Everyone who got the pic knew I was involved in the development of a golf prodigy (now one of the nation's best) just starting to get recognized. More than one had SC connections. Just one of them (you) was so wrapped up in "weird" things that somehow or other child porn was considered a possibility. I'll give you a little credit though. You objected to what you imagined was potentially kiddie porn and that probably explains your email concerns. You did go on to discuss it elsewhere though.
Oh Please! Again, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and my POV regarding how I view these women was and is irrelevant. What you were doing, before I finally got fed up with your BS gossip and told you to stop sending me emails, was discussing private conversations that you had with dancers and telling me details about their lives that I really had no business hearing. I'm pretty sure, since you were always telling me not to mention our emails when I saw those same dancers in the club, that you knew what you were doing was bad. You have the balls to imply that I was pissed at your written indiscretions because I view dancers as sex workers? What I view them as is people and people have a right to assume that their private conversations will actually remain private. You called them friends and yet you gossiped behind their backs by sharing details of their private conversations simply so that you could present yourself to a stranger on the internet as an insider in their lives. Guess what BEM, real friends don't talk about their friends to strangers...at least not after they get out of junior high school...You sold them out to impress a total stranger.
I made a big mistake when interacting with you of assuming you were a normal person whose whole life didn't revolve SC's porn and escorts. Mine doesn't. Obviously I was wrong about you as totally innocuous comments by me were misinterpreted by you to imply certain things about certain girls because they were sex workers. No normal person would see that implication (post 287) or interpret the pic I sent the way you did. I revealed nothing confidential or revealing about anyone.
Um, at this point I find it hard to believe I gave you credit for anything but if I did it was probably unrelated to what we are talking about here...
Post 287. Its exactly what we're talking about. People erroneously reading things into certain statements because of their own mindsets.
The point BEM is that, to you, I am a total stranger. You read a review I wrote of a club visit and emailed me to tell me that we know some of the same dancers. That would have been fine but then you started gossiping to me about them. You don't know me BEM! For all you know I could have been a stalker, the SO of one of those dancers or just a perv on the internet who could have started posting about all the shit that you were telling me. Indiscreet is the fucking understatement of the century!.
I emailed nothing revealing about any of the dancers to you refer to and unlike you, I don't post about my acquaintances like you do on the stripping, escorting (so I've heard), or porn ( I've read) sites.
WestCoast101
01-31-2010, 02:01 PM
Bem i am really tired of your bulshit and maybe you need to quit while your ahead, because I'm actually editing what i've been told, believe me.
here is you on 3-29-08 mouthing off confidential data
"If you accept the notion that a heavy spending regular is essentially a sugar daddy ITC, then most if not all dancers are always looking for ( another) sugar daddy, whether it be for the next hour, the rest of the night, the next few months in the club, or outside the club. An OTC sugar daddy is just someone willing to keep up ( or boost ) the spending in order to meet outside the club. The more money that is involved, the less likely it is that sex is not involved. A dancer friend of mine recently confided to me that she has a sugar daddy but claimed not to be sleeping with him. I'd like to believe her, but....... it does sound a little far-fetched to me."
WestCoast101
01-31-2010, 02:16 PM
and what you said the following day on march 30, 2008 and this doesn't even count dozens of other (identifying type) posts elsewhere you've made in regard to this real life "friend" of yours. and in my opinion it doesn't prove you aren a real life friend, only a big mouth that cannot keep quiet about something. and strangely enough, its also more proof that, as others claim this is really all about a few dancers moostly, mostly at one club over the last year, and this is 1 of 2 two dancers i've said you were constantly talking about, yet bacdkpedaled on when asked specifics, and as for the confidence issue, now this info is old and everyone in the club say knows about this thing, so i'm not adding anythhing, except to prove you are big mouth.
"It was the amount of money involved that made it seem far-fetched, not the fact that she could find a "sexless" sugar daddy arrangement. The girl in question is one of the biggest moneymakers in town and her monthly "sponsorship" , for lack of a better term, may pay her more than dancing does."
bem401
01-31-2010, 02:29 PM
you really are an idiot. you were mouthing off about how one of your dancer "friends" recently confided to you about a new high paying OTC sugar daddy and you later described where she stood on the club totem pole with, near the top, You must be so arrogant you think dancers and others affiliated with strip clubs must be a total idiots, and cannot kinow or guess who you are talking about, especially when you are talking about certain dancer "friends" for years over and over again in here.
the lack of specificity issue came up precisely to find out what the hell "real life" meant to you because you were tap dancing all over the place when anything was asked in this regard, you could have explained it in a way that didn't compromise any integrity, instead it came off like you were evading the issues, sorry that is the way it looked, and why would saying "yes, we go to dinner together otc as platonic friends" or "yeah, she has visited my house as friends" or here is how i know her family, why the hell would that all of a sudden bring up some confidence issue?
Bem, do you have a problem with social skills, because i am beginning to believe it, and yoda's mention of those emails only confirms this. Do you understand that you are probably on the largest stripper site in the world, and that 1000's of people, most not even signed up, look at the posts in these site, often concentrating on comments relating to a particular market and the clubs they are guessing people are referring to, and that some of these people are in your market might be able to guess at, or make an educated guess, and maybe later on figure out to a high degree of probability who the hell you are talking about? especially retroactively, and especially when they have club info on that precise matter?
one of your detractors brought up this issue as an example of how she believes dancers, in one of two clubs you been hanging at in recent years, may act as sort of 'enablers" for you rather distorted view of dancers of what makes dancers "real life" friends and other b.s. and when i checked the precise issue it occured to me this if this was a major issue, this instead mighti instead provide proof to some degree that some of your "real life" claims have some merit, and that's why i ran it by your one supporter, "wouldn't this be be thing"? whether this issue was a big thing or not, and his response and he was insistent that this was a very critical issue for this dancer, and he explained why in detail, and this is why i posted it, as a type of partial exonneration on you, but for all i know he is full of shit because other info i got on you is suggesting some kind of social skills issue.
1. West, you must be the real idiot. I never once mentioned any girl I consider a friend having an OTC Sugar Daddy. That would be fucked-up if I did. You are somehow or other jumping to conclusions you shouldn't be from things you say I wrote. And if we're talking about the same girl, she definitely doesn't. Yoda would have gone justifiably berserk if I did that because he would defend her if I did that and she would drop me in a nanosecond as a friend if I ever did anything remotely like that. I don't believe any of the girls I know have OTC Sugar Daddies and wouldn't mention it if I did have that knowledge.
2. As far specificity regarding RL is concerned, it concerns anything not stripping or club-related. There's nothing specific about it. The three samples you gave, I have different friends that fit into one or more of each of those categories. The point is we'd rather not have a dancer/customer relationship because we have interactions unrelated to the work they do.
3. I shared no revealing information about anyone with anyone and posted no revealing information here about anyone at all. If my social skills sucked, I'd have to pay every dancer who pays attention to me. I don't find myself in a position where tjhast's necessary.
4. You gotta tell me what thread that other stuff comes from.
yoda57us
01-31-2010, 02:32 PM
Defense for what? Sidetracking what? Everyone who got the pic knew I was involved in the development of a golf prodigy (now one of the nation's best) just starting to get recognized.
I didn't, so not "everyone" did. I don't watch golf. I don't care about golf. You sent me a picture with no text, no message. Again, I am not your friend.
The point, that you are still ignoring, remains that sending out mass emails means that everyone you send it to get's everyone else's email address. Were any of your stripper friends copied in that email? I'm certain they where not because every one of them would have driven to your house (yes, IRL) and castrated you had you included their email address in a mass email. So, what made you think that I would not have a problem with it? I didn't know who anyone else on that copy list was and I sure as hell didn't want them to have my email address attached to a picture of a thirteen year old girl. It doesn't matter what your intent was. Perception is what matters to the rest of the world. Maybe some day you will figure that out but I doubt it...
I made a big mistake when interacting with you of assuming you were a normal person whose whole life didn't revolve SC's porn and escorts. Mine doesn't. Obviously I was wrong about you as totally innocuous comments by me were misinterpreted by you to imply certain things about certain girls because they were sex workers. No normal person would see that implication (post 287) or interpret the pic I sent the way you did. I revealed nothing confidential or revealing about anyone.
Again, you just don't get it BEM. You have no fucking clue what my life revolves around. Your only interaction with me is on a site about sex workers. You don't know me or anything about me other than the fact that I like porn, strippers and hookers. So do you. You have mentioned it many times and you are on many of the same sites that I am on. Please don't try to back peddle. I haven't deleted any of your old emails or forgotten how to read.
I'm not normal? I'm laughing my ass off right now! Do you really want to go down this road? I still have every email you ever sent me. Don't be more of an idiot than you already are BEM.
I emailed nothing revealing about any of the dancers to you refer to and unlike you, I don't post about my acquaintances like you do on the stripping, escorting (so I've heard), or porn ( I've read) sites.
You are full of shit. You emailed me story after story about these women and your interactions with them from the first time you contacted them and asked me not to repeat it to anyone. FYI, posting that you like a particular dancer, escort etc is not the same thing as talking about her behind her back. You would do well to learn the difference.
bem401
01-31-2010, 02:45 PM
I didn't, so not "everyone" did. I don't watch golf. I don't care about golf. You sent me a picture with no text, no message. Again, I am not your friend.
The point, that you are still ignoring, remains that sending out mass emails means that everyone you send it to get's everyone else's email address. Were any of your stripper friends copied in that email? I'm certain they where not because every one of them would have driven to your house (yes, IRL) and castrated you had you included their email address in a mass email. So, what made you think that I would not have a problem with it. I'm not your friend BEM. I don't know who anyone else on that copy list is and I sure as hell don't wan't them to have my email address attached to a picture of a thirteen year old girl. It doesn't matter what your intent was. Perception is what matters to the rest of the world. Maybe some day you will figure that out but I doubt it...
Actually several of my dancer friends got that email. A handful of other SC customers got it too. Not a single person but you went anywhere near it being something wrong. In fact, several of them inquire about her progress every so often to this day. Why would anyone give a shit about their email address being on a mass mailing unless they though something wrong with the mass mailing? You are right, though. your response made it clear to me that some people see things in unusual ways that others never considered.
This thread has devolved into exchanges between 2-3 people. Others have abandoned the thread. I understand that you folks probably have a lot more to share but when it gets to this point it is no longer productive or instructive for the rest of the members.
Thanks,
FBR