View Full Version : Questioning her rape...
jack0177057
02-10-2010, 05:35 PM
I disagree. We are animals and we have animalistic instincts.
You are partly right, we do have animalistic instincts. But, on the other hand, we have self-control and a conscience. Do I want to have sex with every hot dancer that grinds on me? Hell yeah. Do I try to rape them? Hell no.
And for it being ironic because of the strpper/rape situation you were talking about...yeah it does happen. And to fight things like that thats why clubs have cameras, and bouncers, rules and laws.
My point is it doesn't happen with every guy that buys a dance. Most customers (I'm guessing about 99.99%, but correct me if I'm wrong) buy lapdances and do not attempt to rape the dancer.
I agree with you that women should be cautious, take every preventative measure possible, never get drunk in public, never bring their date home or get sexual with him unless the woman intends to have sex, etc. Every woman should learn basic self-defense techniques and carry mace (or better yet, a gun).
But, to say that women who fail to take every precaution, or even "stupid" women who place themselves in vulnerable positions, are at "fault" for being raped is so wrong.
With date rape, the problem is that most girls trust "decent looking" guys, specially if they think they "know" the guy and even more so if they've dated him for a while. Add to that the girl may have been sheltered by over-protective parents and have a Walt Disney perception of the real world.
pixierocksonthepole
02-11-2010, 10:32 AM
^^I guess I am just utterly paranoid because none of it has ever happened to me like that. I'm saying that everyone involved in a situation like your friends, each person, is at fault.
She wasn't raped, she just said no and for many people just saying it isn't enough and one has to get physical to get the point across.
I just come from a family that was taught to be prepared to have people in your life that may not treat you with respect, and to stand your ground and get your point across by any means possible. And to be honest, I'm the only one in my family that is paranoid. I worry about things that I shouldn't or things I can do nothing about. But I also worry about many other things that relate directly to me. So for that reason I have never been raped, taken advantage of, broken a bone, gotten stitches, never been physically abused and I have never let anyone tell me I am less of a person for it.
I tend to be stubborn, yes, but I know that when I mean no and someone isn't listening either I have to walk away and if not allowed to walk away, I will get physical.
I know not everyone handles the situation like that but that's just how I think of it. And that's what I would do. Because if that physical interaction doesn't make it clear enough, then there is something terribly wrong.
KS_Stevia
02-11-2010, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by pixierocksonthepole
And for it being ironic because of the strpper/rape situation you were talking about...yeah it does happen. And to fight things like that thats why clubs have cameras, and bouncers, rules and laws.
Not all clubs have cameras and bouncers watching everything. Particularly in Texas. I've worked in several clubs that only had a couple of floormen monitoring across the entire club, and known private areas without cameras. Sexual assault DOES happen in the club and should not be taken lightly.
jack0177057
02-11-2010, 02:32 PM
^^^ I think a course in basic martial-arts and self-defense techniques should be required for a dancer to get her dance permit/license. Of course, you'll be sued for kicking a customer in the eye, but that's better than getting raped by him.
KS_Stevia
02-11-2010, 03:56 PM
I don't know, that may be dangerous. There are LOTS of whacked out nut job strippers. Add alcohol to the mix, and a lot of people might get hurt. Chances are, they will be other strippers who have inadvertedly upset crazy stripper.
I prefer bouncers, cameras, alcohol limits, common sense.
jack0177057
02-11-2010, 05:31 PM
^^^ Problem is, these are not within the control of the dancer. She has to rely on the bouncer to be alert and close by, the cameras to be installed and be functioning properly, alcohol limits to be enforced, etc... "Common sense" is this - take a self-defense course.
But, yeah, I wouldn't want some "whacked out nut job stripper" to go Jackie Chan on me because I didn't buy dances from her.
pixierocksonthepole
02-12-2010, 05:28 AM
^^^Sorry but I know many strippers that don't rely on anyone but themselves. Just because most strippers we discuss are female, doesn't make us incapable of taking care of ourselves lol. Some are more aware than others. I also think self-reliance is very important in these kinds of situations and this industry, that's what it's all about.
Not all clubs have cameras and bouncers watching everything. Particularly in Texas. I've worked in several clubs that only had a couple of floormen monitoring across the entire club, and known private areas without cameras. Sexual assault DOES happen in the club and should not be taken lightly.
I am also aware of this. It isn't being taken lightly. That isn't what I was saying.
sxcbbw
02-12-2010, 05:40 AM
^^I guess I am just utterly paranoid because none of it has ever happened to me like that. I'm saying that everyone involved in a situation like your friends, each person, is at fault.
She wasn't raped, she just said no and for many people just saying it isn't enough and one has to get physical to get the point across.
I just come from a family that was taught to be prepared to have people in your life that may not treat you with respect, and to stand your ground and get your point across by any means possible. And to be honest, I'm the only one in my family that is paranoid. I worry about things that I shouldn't or things I can do nothing about. But I also worry about many other things that relate directly to me. So for that reason I have never been raped, taken advantage of, broken a bone, gotten stitches, never been physically abused and I have never let anyone tell me I am less of a person for it.
I tend to be stubborn, yes, but I know that when I mean no and someone isn't listening either I have to walk away and if not allowed to walk away, I will get physical.
I know not everyone handles the situation like that but that's just how I think of it. And that's what I would do. Because if that physical interaction doesn't make it clear enough, then there is something terribly wrong.
Ignoring the rest of this thread, that's pretty much the definition of rape.
pixierocksonthepole
02-12-2010, 07:29 AM
Ignoring the rest of this thread, that's pretty much the definition of rape.
Yes unfortunately thats it. But my point was that she couldn't take this guy she was in an intimate relationship to court and get him charged with rape. It wouldn't go through and would be dismissed.
But here I am hoping that the threadjack is completely over. :-X
Simple. The girl I was talking about in the OP lied about being raped and it is very unfair to people that actually go through things like that. I never wish anything like that on anyone, ever. One of the boys she claimed raped her in high school was the son of a police officer, and apparently he had told everyone that he slept with her. So sadly instead of just ignoring the problem, she made it bigger by claiming rape.
Not once did she cry, was she depressed, did she talk to someone about the problem, or just take some time for herself to just, heal. She went on and partied out whenever she could. Meet more guys that supposedly "raped" her.
It's wrong. And I originally just wanted to know if I was the only one thinking it was suspicious/fishy. So I asked people from the outside of the relationship.
:)
sxcbbw
02-12-2010, 07:39 AM
Yes unfortunately thats it. But my point was that she couldn't take this guy she was in an intimate relationship to court and get him charged with rape. It wouldn't go through and would be dismissed.
But here I am hoping that the threadjack is completely over. :-X
Simple. The girl I was talking about in the OP lied about being raped and it is very unfair to people that actually go through things like that. I never wish anything like that on anyone, ever. One of the boys she claimed raped her in high school was the son of a police officer, and apparently he had told everyone that he slept with her. So sadly instead of just ignoring the problem, she made it bigger by claiming rape.
Not once did she cry, was she depressed, did she talk to someone about the problem, or just take some time for herself to just, heal. She went on and partied out whenever she could. Meet more guys that supposedly "raped" her.
It's wrong. And I originally just wanted to know if I was the only one thinking it was suspicious/fishy. So I asked people from the outside of the relationship.
:)
Some people deal with grief in really dumb ways, that sounds a lot like how I get over trauma - get really, really drunk, and dance all night, and do it all again the next night, and not let anyone know anything's wrong, get into dangerous situations because of self loathing, and sleep with strangers to comfort myself. God I'm glad I'm not 16 anymore.
OJenni!
02-12-2010, 09:15 AM
I went to an urgent care clinic with horrible abdominal pain. They gave me meds for STD's because that's what they assumed. And they tested me for it. Got the results back the next day, I was clean. I took all those antibiotics for nothing. Problem was with my ovary.
So, its not that unusual to get results back quickly, didn't cost me extra, just had to ask, since they were trying to figure out a diagnosis for my pain.
I had a blood pregnancy test in the hospital come back within 30 minutes. Also we now have instant HIV test kits used in many clinical settings, the one used here takes 60 seconds to get a result.
That said there are other tests that can take weeks. If she was raped she probably had a rape kit done, and I am not sure exactly what that entails. If there is a DNA component (which I am sure there is) those things can take forever. And I would think there would be at least a police report?
jack0177057
02-12-2010, 09:19 AM
Simple. The girl I was talking about in the OP lied about being raped and it is very unfair to people that actually go through things like that.
...Not debating rape in general, but just about your friend...
If she's admitted to you that she lied, that's one thing. But, I'm still not convinced that she did based on all the facts you state. Maybe it wasn't a traumatic violent rape, like getting attacked by a stranger in the middle of a parking garage. Her rapes sounds more like date rapes (I'm not saying date rape is not traumatic). You have to understand the complexities of date rape. A girl trusts a guy, kisses him, maybe even gets a little sexual with him, but she is not ready for full sex yet (on some level she may even desire it, but she is not mentally ready to go through with it). He violates her trust and her body. She may feel that the rape was her fault, for "leading him on". She may feel that her date deceived her, was only interested in sex, etc., and that men perceive her as a "slut" to be used and discarded, even though she's tried to be respectable. Maybe she gets traumatized and cries a lot. Maybe she doesn't cry and just accepts her fate - she starts to believe that she is worthless and resigns to a life of abuse and violation by men - her self-esteem is non-existent, she is like a woman suffering from battered-women syndrome who covers up her wounds with make-up.
Your friend reminds me of the Julie Emrick character in the show Felicity, which ran in the late 1990s. Julie gets date-raped in college and, though she's a little depressed about it, she doesn't cry or act traumatized about the rape. Her friends find out and they are suprised by her subdued reaction (they think she's in shock or denial, but she's not). Julie then explains that, in fact, she's been the victim of several date rapes in the past. You would say they were all her "fault", because she gets herself in intimate situations with men she dates, even though she's not ready for sex. She finally gets some closure when her last rapist (college student) admits to her that he did indeed rape her and apologizes for it - he knew she didn't want sex and he forced himself on her.
KS_Stevia
02-12-2010, 11:13 AM
Did you just try to educate a female on what date rape is? Ugh, dislike. She isn't stupid, she knows what date rape is. We all do. Most of us have been in that situation at one time or another, sadly.
sxcbbw
02-12-2010, 11:16 AM
Did you just try to educate a female on what date rape is? Ugh, dislike. She isn't stupid, she knows what date rape is. We all do. Most of us have been in that situation at one time or another, sadly.
There are, mind bogglingly, women that don't believe in rape. Or rape of a partner. Or rape without kicking and screaming. I think Jack's a little overzealous in his earnest explanation HERE of all places, and to that person, but I can see why he might have found it pertinent.
jack0177057
02-12-2010, 01:01 PM
There are, mind bogglingly, women that don't believe in rape. Or rape of a partner. Or rape without kicking and screaming. I think Jack's a little overzealous in his earnest explanation HERE of all places, and to that person, but I can see why he might have found it pertinent.
Its the lawyer in me... I just feel that she is judging her friend too quickly. There are two sides to every story and there is so much under the surface that we don't see.
By the way, the first time my friend told me about her rape (the friend that let herself get playfully tied up by the guys she was dating), I thought she was stupid, and at least, partly at fault for making herself so vulnerable... Then, I dated a virgin girl and realized how much she trusted me and how vulnerable she was to me... This girl put herself in the same situation as my friend did - no, I didn't tie her up, but everything else was very similar - she let me get very intimate with her, even though she wasn't ready to lose her virginity. Something just clicked... a guy that betrays that kind of love and trust from a woman is a monster,... no mater how stupid and naive the girl is.
sxcbbw
02-12-2010, 01:05 PM
Its the lawyer in me... I just feel that she is judging her friend too quickly. There are two sides to every story and there is so much under the surface that we don't see.
By the way, the first time my friend told me about her rape (the friend that let herself get playfully tied up by the guys she was dating), I though she was stupid and at least partly at fault for making herself so vulnerable... Then, I dated a virgin girl and realized how much she trusted me and how vulnerable she was to me... This girl put herself in the same situation as my friend did - no, I didn't tie her up, but everything else was very similar - she let me get very intimate with her, even though she wasn't ready to lose her virginity. Something just clicked... a guy that betrays that kind of love and trust from a woman is a monster,... no mater how stupid and naive the girl is.
I agree, mostly because the chick sounds way too like me. Half of my family disowned the other half of my family last month because half believed a sexual assault happened and the other half didn't. Their reasoning was that if it had happened, there would have been huge amounts of obvious trauma and it would have been spoken about from day one, not kept hidden for 10 years, and I'd currently be in a convent recovering, not sleeping with people willingly.
jack0177057
02-12-2010, 05:50 PM
^^^ Sorry to hear that... That's a terrible thing.
sxcbbw
02-13-2010, 01:23 AM
^^^ Sorry to hear that... That's a terrible thing.
The family drama doesn't bother me, I have better things to do than mind if those people believe me. Their belief is irrelevant.
audrey_k
02-13-2010, 08:19 AM
I had a friend who was like this. Literally it was "hi my name is *** and I've been raped four times." I'm not sure if she actually was raped the first time and just liked the attention she got from it, or if she was just pushed into sex and then felt taken advantage of, or if it was all just total lies.. but she also claimed to have a miscarriage I found very questionable.
It never ceases to amaze me how people have such varying reactions to trauma. Two friends of mine were ruffied at a college party last year and raped. One girl went to the police and pressed charges and was very open about what happened to her... and she slept with about twenty people in the following month. The other girl holed herself up in her room and denied it completely, to the point she refused to go to court.
Mr Hyde
02-13-2010, 08:21 AM
^^I guess I am just utterly paranoid because none of it has ever happened to me like that. I'm saying that everyone involved in a situation like your friends, each person, is at fault.
She wasn't raped, she just said no and for many people just saying it isn't enough and one has to get physical to get the point across.
I just come from a family that was taught to be prepared to have people in your life that may not treat you with respect, and to stand your ground and get your point across by any means possible. And to be honest, I'm the only one in my family that is paranoid. I worry about things that I shouldn't or things I can do nothing about. But I also worry about many other things that relate directly to me. So for that reason I have never been raped, taken advantage of, broken a bone, gotten stitches, never been physically abused and I have never let anyone tell me I am less of a person for it.
I tend to be stubborn, yes, but I know that when I mean no and someone isn't listening either I have to walk away and if not allowed to walk away, I will get physical.
I know not everyone handles the situation like that but that's just how I think of it. And that's what I would do. Because if that physical interaction doesn't make it clear enough, then there is something terribly wrong.
I will probably start a firestorm on here with this comment, but if a man said what you're saying on here, he'd be pilloried.
FWIW, I agree with you though.
pixierocksonthepole
02-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Its the lawyer in me... I just feel that she is judging her friend too quickly. There are two sides to every story and there is so much under the surface that we don't see.
By the way, the first time my friend told me about her rape (the friend that let herself get playfully tied up by the guys she was dating), I thought she was stupid, and at least, partly at fault for making herself so vulnerable... Then, I dated a virgin girl and realized how much she trusted me and how vulnerable she was to me... This girl put herself in the same situation as my friend did - no, I didn't tie her up, but everything else was very similar - she let me get very intimate with her, even though she wasn't ready to lose her virginity. Something just clicked... a guy that betrays that kind of love and trust from a woman is a monster,... no mater how stupid and naive the girl is.
Too quickly??? Are you insane?? This girl has been around for 7-8 years. Last I checked, that's not too quickly. I took everything she has claimed about herself and everyone else she has ever made a claim about that I know and came to that conclusion. She is a nut. She lies...and I cannot for the life of me find one person that believes what she says 100%.
And Mr.Hyde...have no worries lol. It wouldn't bother me if a man said what I said. Not one bit.
Mr Hyde
02-13-2010, 11:03 AM
Too quickly??? Are you insane?? This girl has been around for 7-8 years. Last I checked, that's not too quickly. I took everything she has claimed about herself and everyone else she has ever made a claim about that I know and came to that conclusion. She is a nut. She lies...and I cannot for the life of me find one person that believes what she says 100%.
And Mr.Hyde...have no worries lol. It wouldn't bother me if a man said what I said. Not one bit.
I'm with you, but there are some so-called feminists that think that women are a bunch of helpless shrinking violets and men are a bunch cave-dwelling troglodytes...and that if a guy and girl have both been drinking, start getting hot and heavy, pants off and then the girl says "no" one time, that if the guy pushes past that even a little, and the girl doesn't do anything, that's date rape. There is a big difference between a girl who says she said "no" one time being date-raped and a girl who really firmly says no, makes it very clear that she's not into sex, and a guy who forces it on her. Unfortunately, for date rape nazis, there is no distinction.
I'll give you an example from my own past...when I was 19, I met this girl at a bar in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla. I was home from college over the summer, and this girl and I hit it off. We ended up leaving the bar...she wanted to go buy some beer and go to the beach. Fortunately I had a fake ID at the time, so we got a 6-pack and headed to the beach. When we got there, we started kissing, and soon clothes were coming off. We got down to basically underwear, I was on top of her, and then she started playing games...pushing me away and saying no...then pulling me back on top of her and kissing me, grabbing my dick...then pushing me away and saying no...this went on for a while, and I eventually pulled back myself and put my clothes on. She sat in the passenger seat making pouty faces and come ons...I took her to her place and dropped her off.
A few days later I called her, we went out, and later that night, sober, she basically asked me why I didn't fuck her the other night. She really wanted to...
So us guys get confusing mixed signals a LOT from girls...no SHOULD mean no, but girls often say it as part of the game.
pixierocksonthepole
02-13-2010, 03:16 PM
^^Exactly what I mean. Games, and girls use no in them. It's annoying. And unfair and gives her ammo to later call it something it really wasn't.