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You Know Me
02-18-2010, 02:15 PM
What comes into it other than biology? If a person's brain is incapable of making rational decisions, then how will that person make rational decisions?




Sure, I can't say that nowhere in the history of time and space has it ever been ok for a 40 year old to mess around with a 19 year old. If the 40 year old were developmentally challenged and the 19 year old had a bionic brain, then maybe it would be okay. There are always exceptions to the rule; however, the rule is: 40 year olds should not mess around with 19 year olds.



It's not a matter of opinion. You cannot agree or disagree with facts.

I never met anyone under 24 that would keep my interest long enough anyway. 25 is even pushing it. IMO and this is not to be mean...they are too damn immature and have no clue what real life is all about. As a 30 something i would consider a very mature 25 year old but she would have to be special.

Anything between 21-24 is just a sexual toy...below 21 is just too uncomfortable and i would feel like a predator.

Oh and for some reason the 27-33 range is perfect. 27 seems to have been the magic number lately. I love an aggressive woman and single women in this group seem to be very aggressive.;D

Almost Jaded
02-18-2010, 02:45 PM
1. Being a minor is a matter of law, not biology. The law is flawed in that it defines some children as adults and provides justification for pedophiles to act on their urges.

As much as I like you, this is not going to go well, lol. Please understand that I respect you and that anything posted here is purely to debate i disagreement, nothing personal. I post that disclaimer because the body of my reply must start with the terrible phrase, "people like you".

People like you at best piss me off, at worst just disgust me. I'm sure that you'll feel the same way towards me after this, but this should be put out there.

First of all, don't start quoting science if you don't know the research behind it. DO you WHAT PARTS of the brain are and are not developed at what stages? The parts of the brain associated with mate selection and emotion are some of the FIRST to be finished, most of it before puberty, in fact. The logical parts of the brain associated with higher math and complex logic are the last; and only in very recent society are these parts of the brin of any value in a relationship, LMAO!

Secondly, don't use scientific basis' to support your conclusions if those conclusions aren't
technically correct. For one, see above. For another, your terminology is wrong, typical for reactionary activist types. "Pedophilia" is first of all, not in and of itself a crime. It is a technical term for people of either gender and any sexual preference that are attracted primarily to PREpubescent children. The term "pedophile" has been turned into a slur, used to generalize anyone who people like you feel has an unhealthy attraction to someone who YOU feel is too young. While in the case of child molesters the abuse of the technical term is understandable, in the case presently discussed it's just not even remotely accurate. Pedophilia is recognized as a "problem" condition only when it results in behavioral changes and actions that are to the detriment of others. HEMOphilia is the term for those with an attraction to PUBESCENTs, and doesn't actually come up much because the distinction between it and the other two is hard for most. It is also considered "benign" unless it results in the aforementioned behaviors.

EPHEBOPHELIA is the term you're after here - attraction to POST-pubescents, generally between the ages of 14/15 and 20/21. Note that nothing in any medical journal ANYWHERE regards ephebophilia as a dangerous or even unhealthy condition; and in fact it is more common than the "normal" state; so far as to technically BE the norm. The ONLY reason that any negative connotations exist are legal, having to do with the establishment of "age of consent" laws and the like. Fact is, most human males are genetically wired to seek out post-pubescent mates once their mate nears menopause, and for MOST OF HISTORY it has been PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE to do so. Whether or no they act on it is beside he point; modern "sensibilities" have determined that this completely normal and natural tendency is "wrong", "sick", and "unhealthy".

The "age of consent" laws were established to place some kind of boundaries on these distinctions. Note that the age of consent is NOT 18, in MOST states in the US it is 16, in a couple it is 15, in a few it's 17, and in 6 or 7 it's 18. I find it funny in a bad way that you say these laws enable "pedophiles", the establishment of these laws actually raised the average age of marriage significantly. SO basically you're saying that before these laws were passed, most of the men in America at least (in most of the rest of the world, it wouldn't be in the past tense) were "pedophiles".

Please rebut with something other than rhetoric and anger. Facts to support your position would be the weapon of choice here.

Almost Jaded
02-18-2010, 02:53 PM
Anything between 21-24 is just a sexual toy...below 21 is just too uncomfortable and i would feel like a predator.

Bingo. Attitudes like Chris91's (only picking you out because of your vocal posts as they are a perfect example for the point at hand) have made it so that no male over the age of 25 is allowed to admit he thinks a 17 year old is attractive. If you met a girl in her teens with a far higher than average IQ and a good head on her shoulders who could hold a meaningful conversation with you and didn't come off as shallow, who was attractive physically and who expressed interest in you, the only thing stopping you is fear of being labeled a predator. There should be many, many things that determine your course of action, but being outcast for natural reactions shouldn't be one of them. Any gays here feel like chiming in on that one?!

What's more, he hypocrisy present is laughable. Why is it okay for a 16 year old to have relations with another teen, but not somebody who is in all likelihood going to be more stable and a better mate, even temporarily? How many 17 year olds today are capable of treating a partner well, taking care of them, understanding the long-term ramifications of decisions, able to give advice based on anything? Basically the attitudes relegating age-gap relationships involving teens relegate people in this age group to sub-standard experiences almost guaranteed to result in long-term issues. Combine that fact with the horrible parenting present in most families today, and the recipe is for disaster.

And before someone jumps in with comments about the long-term damage caused by "predators", I'll shut you down RIGHT NOW. If you ban all guns, only criminals have guns. If you make it so healthy adults are outcast for pursuing younger mates, or that younger people are told they're wrong for pursuing older mates, you create a situation where the majority of those pursuing these situations are the ones irrational (and so likely unstable) enough to disregard the social stigmas. Stop stringing up every 30 or 40 year old that dates a 15-19 year old and pretty soon you'll see a higher percentage of healthy relations, because it won't be just the sick ones in the mix.

Everyman
02-18-2010, 02:58 PM
What comes into it other than biology? If a person's brain is incapable of making rational decisions, then how will that person make rational decisions?




Sure, I can't say that nowhere in the history of time and space has it ever been ok for a 40 year old to mess around with a 19 year old. If the 40 year old were developmentally challenged and the 19 year old had a bionic brain, then maybe it would be okay. There are always exceptions to the rule; however, the rule is: 40 year olds should not mess around with 19 year olds.



It's not a matter of opinion. You cannot agree or disagree with facts.

Wow, this could not be more wrong. There isn't some scientific definition of "child" and "adult" like 2 + 2 = 4. It's ONLY opinion where that line falls, and probably differs for every individual. But for sexual matters, our society has decided to draw the line between child and adult at 18, so I'll go with that.

princessjas
02-18-2010, 03:07 PM
So you're saying don't be a creepy, obsessive stalker. Hm, I'll have to think about that one, it was the direction I was planning to go.

But if you're saying it won't work......

Listen smart ass, you are already acting creepy and obsessive. I was trying to be nice and not say it though.

You can ignore anything else I wrote. I typed it out fast before class and after taking a sudafed. Forgot that from your earlier posts it's obvious that she isn't the coed type. You've already posted that. She may LOOK it, but I WAS that innocent coed, as were about half my co-workers. We were all scared to death of the druggie girls, we weren't doing drugs and certainly weren't making out with customers. ::) She's just got good game.

princessjas
02-18-2010, 03:09 PM
I never met anyone under 24 that would keep my interest long enough anyway. 25 is even pushing it. IMO and this is not to be mean...they are too damn immature and have no clue what real life is all about. As a 30 something i would consider a very mature 25 year old but she would have to be special.

Anything between 21-24 is just a sexual toy...below 21 is just too uncomfortable and i would feel like a predator.

Oh and for some reason the 27-33 range is perfect. 27 seems to have been the magic number lately. I love an aggressive woman and single women in this group seem to be very aggressive.;D

Have I told you lately that you are one of my favorite people? :flirt:

mediocrity
02-18-2010, 03:09 PM
Bingo. Attitudes like Chris91's (only picking you out because of your vocal posts as they are a perfect example for the point at hand) have made it so that no male over the age of 25 is allowed to admit he thinks a 17 year old is attractive. If you met a girl in her teens with a far higher than average IQ and a good head on her shoulders who could hold a meaningful conversation with you and didn't come off as shallow, who was attractive physically and who expressed interest in you, the only thing stopping you is fear of being labeled a predator. There should be many, many things that determine your course of action, but being outcast for natural reactions shouldn't be one of them. Any gays here feel like chiming in on that one?!

What's more, he hypocrisy present is laughable. Why is it okay for a 16 year old to have relations with another teen, but not somebody who is in all likelihood going to be more stable and a better mate, even temporarily? How many 17 year olds today are capable of treating a partner well, taking care of them, understanding the long-term ramifications of decisions, able to give advice based on anything? Basically the attitudes relegating age-gap relationships involving teens relegate people in this age group to sub-standard experiences almost guaranteed to result in long-term issues. Combine that fact with the horrible parenting present in most families today, and the recipe is for disaster.

And before someone jumps in with comments about the long-term damage caused by "predators", I'll shut you down RIGHT NOW. If you ban all guns, only criminals have guns. If you make it so healthy adults are outcast for pursuing younger mates, or that younger people are told they're wrong for pursuing older mates, you create a situation where the majority of those pursuing these situations are the ones irrational (and so likely unstable) enough to disregard the social stigmas. Stop stringing up every 30 or 40 year old that dates a 15-19 year old and pretty soon you'll see a higher percentage of healthy relations, because it won't be just the sick ones in the mix.

I'm sorry AJ. I could never agree with any 30 or 40 year old dating a 15 yr old. It would make me wonder what was wrong with them and why they couldn't find a woman closer to their age. Girls that young are impressionable. Hell, at 15, I had only had my period for a year. And I have dated someone thirteen years older than myself, I was 26 he was 39. Difference being, we were both mature adults, not teens in the throes of adolescence, dealing with social and emotional issues that the purported "parter" had dealt with over twenty years before their birth.

If I had a 15, or 16 year old daughter, I would never allow them to date someone who was in my age bracket.

sxcbbw
02-18-2010, 03:15 PM
I'm sorry AJ. I could never agree with any 30 or 40 year old dating a 15 yr old. It would make me wonder what was wrong with them and why they couldn't find a woman closer to their age. Girls that young are impressionable. Hell, at 15, I had only had my period for a year. And I have dated someone thirteen years older than myself, I was 26 he was 39. Difference being, we were both mature adults, not teens in the throes of adolescence, dealing with social and emotional issues that the purported "parter" had dealt with over twenty years before their birth.

If I had a 15, or 16 year old daughter, I would never allow them to date someone who was in my age bracket.

I'd go out and gut the older person in question myself. Entrails everywhere. >:(

J.D.
02-18-2010, 03:51 PM
Bingo. Attitudes like Chris91's (only picking you out because of your vocal posts as they are a perfect example for the point at hand) have made it so that no male over the age of 25 is allowed to admit he thinks a 17 year old is attractive. If you met a girl in her teens with a far higher than average IQ and a good head on her shoulders who could hold a meaningful conversation with you and didn't come off as shallow, who was attractive physically and who expressed interest in you, the only thing stopping you is fear of being labeled a predator. There should be many, many things that determine your course of action, but being outcast for natural reactions shouldn't be one of them. Any gays here feel like chiming in on that one?!

What's more, he hypocrisy present is laughable. Why is it okay for a 16 year old to have relations with another teen, but not somebody who is in all likelihood going to be more stable and a better mate, even temporarily? How many 17 year olds today are capable of treating a partner well, taking care of them, understanding the long-term ramifications of decisions, able to give advice based on anything? Basically the attitudes relegating age-gap relationships involving teens relegate people in this age group to sub-standard experiences almost guaranteed to result in long-term issues. Combine that fact with the horrible parenting present in most families today, and the recipe is for disaster.

And before someone jumps in with comments about the long-term damage caused by "predators", I'll shut you down RIGHT NOW. If you ban all guns, only criminals have guns. If you make it so healthy adults are outcast for pursuing younger mates, or that younger people are told they're wrong for pursuing older mates, you create a situation where the majority of those pursuing these situations are the ones irrational (and so likely unstable) enough to disregard the social stigmas. Stop stringing up every 30 or 40 year old that dates a 15-19 year old and pretty soon you'll see a higher percentage of healthy relations, because it won't be just the sick ones in the mix.

Ok, with that being said, what are your thoughts about NAMBLA?

princessjas
02-18-2010, 04:01 PM
First of all, don't start quoting science if you don't know the research behind it. DO you WHAT PARTS of the brain are and are not developed at what stages? The parts of the brain associated with mate selection and emotion are some of the FIRST to be finished, most of it before puberty, in fact. The logical parts of the brain associated with higher math and complex logic are the last; and only in very recent society are these parts of the brin of any value in a relationship, LMAO!

Please rebut with something other than rhetoric and anger. Facts to support your position would be the weapon of choice here.

Since I haz the background can I just point out a few things? I AM NOT gonna reason about why it's okay or not, cause I like you and don't wanna hate you for another couple of weeks till I cool off. ;D But this one thing was just buggin me cause I've had so many neurology classes and just went over this crap in A&P. hehe, It was on my test Wednesday, which I got a 98% on. (k, I'm done bragging now! hehe.)

Okay, the mate selection parts of the brain are developed early...but those just tell you who is most likely to be fertile. Can we agree on that? Now this part of your brain will not tell you what relationships won't damage you psychologically, right? (Which, ya I know, it doesn't damage EVERY single girl, but it does a good amount you must admit.)

So the frontal parts of the brain are now thought to be developing until around 30 (which totally supports how I felt, btw). These parts are NOT just for advanced functions like math. They control reasoning, decision making and self or impulse control.

Sooo, it makes sense that the younger you are the more difficult it may be to make an informed, logical decision, correct? This totally supports my theory that peeps shouldn't be allowed to have kids till they are 30 btw. :D


While this work suggests a wave of brain white matter development that flows from front to back, animal, functional brain imaging and postmortem studies have suggested that gray matter maturation flows in the opposite direction, with the frontal lobes not fully maturing until young adulthood. To confirm this in living humans, the UCLA researchers compared MRI scans of young adults, 23-30, with those of teens, 12-16.4 (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/teenage-brain-a-work-in-progress-fact-sheet/index.shtml#4) They looked for signs of myelin, which would imply more mature, efficient connections, within gray matter. As expected, areas of the frontal lobe showed the largest differences between young adults and teens. This increased myelination in the adult fro[ntal cortex likely relates to the maturation of cognitive processing and other "executive" functions. Parietal and temporal areas mediating spatial, sensory, auditory and language functions appeared largely mature in the teen brain. The observed late maturation of the frontal lobe conspicuously coincides with the typical age-of-onset of schizophrenia—late teens, early twenties—which, as noted earlier, is characterized by impaired "executive" functioning.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/teenage-brain-a-work-in-progress-fact-sheet/index.shtml

Here's the link where this quote came from. If you looksie online though, you'll find a lot of papers that agree with this. I picked the first one I found on brain development that interpreted actual study results.

There's literally a bazillion places to look up frontal lobe functions, more specifically "executive" functions, so I won't insult you by posting a zillion links.

Almost Jaded
02-18-2010, 04:54 PM
I'm sorry AJ. I could never agree with any 30 or 40 year old dating a 15 yr old. It would make me wonder what was wrong with them and why they couldn't find a woman closer to their age.


I'd go out and gut the older person in question myself. Entrails everywhere.

Thank you for so concisely making my point. BTW, only 2 generations back, few people felt that way.

NAMBLA and a few other organizations like them from other perspectives are largely leftovers from the Kinsey days. They're out of touch. The responses above are indicative of the pendulum swinging the other way, a process that started in the mid '70's, got traction in the '80's, and really started to progress in the late '90's. It's just as wrong.

We can both quote differnt brain studies all day. Many show very different results. There are two consistent findings in every really good brain study ever funded. First, that the brain is more developed at earlier stages than previously thought. Second, that the brain continues to develop far longer than previously thought. side from those two consistencies, few studies have very similar findings. The whole of brain science is very, very young, lol.

It really all comes down to individuals anyway. I know 15 year olds who are perfectly capable of running their lives - and relationships - better than most adults I know. I know 40 year olds who shouldn't be on their own - and I don't mean developmental issues or retardation, etc, I mean MATURITY. From the other side of the coin, there are sickos who shouldn't be allowed to date ANYONE and certainly not younger, less experienced individuals, and there are really caring and careful people out there who could very easily be the best thing that could happen to a confused and distracted teenager, even in a relationship.

Thanks for being civil everybody. :)

sxcbbw
02-18-2010, 05:23 PM
Thank you for so concisely making my point. BTW, only 2 generations back, few people felt that way.

NAMBLA and a few other organizations like them from other perspectives are largely leftovers from the Kinsey days. They're out of touch. The responses above are indicative of the pendulum swinging the other way, a process that started in the mid '70's, got traction in the '80's, and really started to progress in the late '90's. It's just as wrong.

We can both quote differnt brain studies all day. Many show very different results. There are two consistent findings in every really good brain study ever funded. First, that the brain is more developed at earlier stages than previously thought. Second, that the brain continues to develop far longer than previously thought. side from those two consistencies, few studies have very similar findings. The whole of brain science is very, very young, lol.

It really all comes down to individuals anyway. I know 15 year olds who are perfectly capable of running their lives - and relationships - better than most adults I know. I know 40 year olds who shouldn't be on their own - and I don't mean developmental issues or retardation, etc, I mean MATURITY. From the other side of the coin, there are sickos who shouldn't be allowed to date ANYONE and certainly not younger, less experienced individuals, and there are really caring and careful people out there who could very easily be the best thing that could happen to a confused and distracted teenager, even in a relationship.

Thanks for being civil everybody. :)

Only 2 generations back, my grandma was trying to sell her children for chickens in Africa. I really don't see the correlation between just 2 generations ago people did crazy things, and wanting to gut someone 35+ dating my 15-16 year old daughter. Sure, be a really caring careful authority figure, role model, and mentor in my child's life. But a relationship? Buy her flowers and earrings and make her feel like a princess like some cute old uncle, sure. But a physical relationship?

I mean ignoring that I'd not be happy with her being in a srs bsns relationship and not more focused on school in those important GCSE years, I just don't see how that would work. Either the man is much, much more experienced and mature than her, and much more capable of manipulation and hurt, or he's all kinds of fucked up, immature, and having some trippy second adolescence in which he actually loses his virginity.

I think the pendulum has just now started climbing back up the other way - this is the middle and I fail to see what's wrong with it on the same level as say, groups of men that love little boys.

Everyman
02-18-2010, 05:25 PM
God I hate what this thread has devolved into. A bunch of PLs and strippers debating brain science? I don't even take at face value what BRAIN SCIENTISTS say about childhood/adulthood, since there is no certainty, and the dividing line is just a judgment call anyway.

Princess, in what way am I acting like a creepy stalker? I've called the girl once (at her invitation), no texts, no personal appearances, she comes running when I show up in the club. Am I doing something creepy I don't know about?

Spent much of the afternoon with her and we're going to lunch tomorrow. Not for pay. Hope I can avoid acting too creepy.

sxcbbw
02-18-2010, 05:34 PM
God I hate what this thread has devolved into. A bunch of PLs and strippers debating brain science? I don't even take at face value what BRAIN SCIENTISTS say about childhood/adulthood, since there is no certainty, and the dividing line is just a judgment call anyway.

Princess, in what way am I acting like a creepy stalker? I've called the girl once (at her invitation), no texts, no personal appearances, she comes running when I show up in the club. Am I doing something creepy I don't know about?

Spent much of the afternoon with her and we're going to lunch tomorrow. Not for pay. Hope I can avoid acting too creepy.

I think this is what she means? I mean if she genuinely likes you that's awesome, good for you, and I hope you can deal with being in a relationship with that kind of person.

However - this whole thread just makes me, personally, think she doesn't so much like you in a special way, as like your money, and that she's a little slow on the uptake. So spending lots of time OTC could be seen as a little off.

Almost Jaded
02-18-2010, 07:12 PM
Either the man is much, much more experienced and mature than her, and much more capable of manipulation and hurt, or he's all kinds of fucked up, immature, and having some trippy second adolescence in which he actually loses his virginity.

So those are absolutely the ONLY two options, are they? Really? And this is a fair and balanced perspective on the topic? LMAO.

Either girls who decide to strip are victims of abuse whose moral compass is off, or they're seriously fucked up in the head and have myriad other issues that need help. Certainly no healthy minded woman would choose exotic dancing as a career!

Apples:apples - gotta love it.

Nobody has explained yet why a young person is somehow better off being limited to people just as immature as they are and likely MORE prone to messed up behavior than they are by expanding their options to include stable, caring adults. Either gender goes here.

Lets look at it like this: A certain percentage of people are )so science tells us) born wired wrong - prone to "bad" behaviors of many different shapes and sizes. FOr now, we'll focus on teh abusive ones and the sexual predators. The number of people born with these "problems" is going to remain fairly balanced from generation to generation, within standard deviations. As these people age, a certain percentage of them are going to get the help they need and become productive and balanced individuals - again, according to science. Another percentage are going to get caught and locked up. So statistically, there are MORE fucked up weirdos under the age of 20 than over the age of 30 - fewer have been helped or caught or both. That is say, for every registered sex offender in your neighborhood, there are one or two younger ones that haven't been branded yet. Simple math, pretty damned irrefutable, though I invite anyone to take a shot.

In fact, if you really look at it from a straight logical standpoint with your fully developed over the age of 25 brain, I would think I wouldn't let my kid date anyone UNDER 25. It literally makes more sense. So again - why are teens better off being limited to other teens? There has not been a decent rebuttal or argument yet, just a lot of rhetoric.

princessjas
02-18-2010, 07:14 PM
God I hate what this thread has devolved into. A bunch of PLs and strippers debating brain science? I don't even take at face value what BRAIN SCIENTISTS say about childhood/adulthood, since there is no certainty, and the dividing line is just a judgment call anyway.

Princess, in what way am I acting like a creepy stalker? I've called the girl once (at her invitation), no texts, no personal appearances, she comes running when I show up in the club. Am I doing something creepy I don't know about?

Spent much of the afternoon with her and we're going to lunch tomorrow. Not for pay. Hope I can avoid acting too creepy.

Actually neurologists are pretty certain. They use functional MRI's to show elevated brain activity in isolated areas of the brain in response to different stimuli to determine which areas control which functions. They can then easily determine which areas are developed and which are not.

Oh, and the creepy factor comes in from you being obsessive enough to start this thread. If you are spending that much time thinking about her that is a HUGE stalker red flag, imo. Of course, I'll admit, I've dealt with more than my fair share of stalkers so I'm spooked pretty easily. ;)

AJ, I was interested to know if you were correct and I was misinformed, so I went hunting around the web for info (actual scientific articles and such, yanno I'm a stickler for that). What I found shocked me actually. The new thing seems to be they think our frontal lobe is developing slower than normal and they are speculating that it is due to lack of physical activity (I'll admit that is a new one for me) or dependence on tech. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. :-\

ETA - I probably won't be able to respond back tonight. I have a 4 hour exam an hour away and I haz to be there at 7:30am. BOO!!

KS_Stevia
02-18-2010, 07:31 PM
I can only speak from my experience, but every older guy who tried to date me when I was a teenager was a total fucking loser.

This 24 year old guy tried to date me when I was 13. He and his boys used to buy us alcohol. Pathetic.

sxcbbw
02-18-2010, 07:35 PM
So those are absolutely the ONLY two options, are they? Really? And this is a fair and balanced perspective on the topic? LMAO.

Either girls who decide to strip are victims of abuse whose moral compass is off, or they're seriously fucked up in the head and have myriad other issues that need help. Certainly no healthy minded woman would choose exotic dancing as a career!

Apples:apples - gotta love it.

Nobody has explained yet why a young person is somehow better off being limited to people just as immature as they are and likely MORE prone to messed up behavior than they are by expanding their options to include stable, caring adults. Either gender goes here.

Lets look at it like this: A certain percentage of people are )so science tells us) born wired wrong - prone to "bad" behaviors of many different shapes and sizes. FOr now, we'll focus on teh abusive ones and the sexual predators. The number of people born with these "problems" is going to remain fairly balanced from generation to generation, within standard deviations. As these people age, a certain percentage of them are going to get the help they need and become productive and balanced individuals - again, according to science. Another percentage are going to get caught and locked up. So statistically, there are MORE fucked up weirdos under the age of 20 than over the age of 30 - fewer have been helped or caught or both. That is say, for every registered sex offender in your neighborhood, there are one or two younger ones that haven't been branded yet. Simple math, pretty damned irrefutable, though I invite anyone to take a shot.

In fact, if you really look at it from a straight logical standpoint with your fully developed over the age of 25 brain, I would think I wouldn't let my kid date anyone UNDER 25. It literally makes more sense. So again - why are teens better off being limited to other teens? There has not been a decent rebuttal or argument yet, just a lot of rhetoric.

Uh, yes. Those are the only two options. He's either a reasonably mature adult, which is a lot more mature than a 15-16 year old, or reasonably immature for his age, which is inappropriate. Is there like some third level of maturity in which one is not mature but not not mature? If not, those really are the only 2 ways it can go.

Stable caring adults can be part of a child's life in a non sexual way. I would indeed be of the opinion that anyone around 35+, in a physical relationship with a 15-16 year old, is not stable. I mean it's illegal in many places, so to risk the ire of the law over a girl when you could just wait a few years or find tail somewhere else, to me, means that person's a little unhinged.

I'd much rather my 15-16 year old child was dating another 15-16 year old child precisely because they are stupid. Because things are a bigger deal to another 15-16 year old. They're easier to impress - and to intimidate. Because they can talk about age relevant things together. Because they don't have cars. Because they'll likely have mutual friends, hobbies, and experiences. Because no one will ask if their teenage partner is their mom or dad. Because a relationship is about equals.

Because like KS_Stevia, I've been there, done that, and I have yet to meet the caring, stable adult, that thinks it's okay to act on his urges to bone a 15-16 year old.

Michigan
02-18-2010, 07:40 PM
"Am I doing something creepy I don't know about?"

Obsessing over whether a 19 year-old (or any age) stripper likes you is what's creepy. If she does or if she doesn't you seem to be headed for an emotional train wreck when the truth is revealed. We've all hinted at what the truth usually is for PL/RIL situations and like most you have to hit that concrete wall also known as reality. When you do I hope you don't blame her for playing you because ALL the red flags are there:

19 years old.

A stripper.

Wants to fuck someone ELSE and tells you that.

Her hustle may or may not be up to speed but that's what the dressing rooms are for. They're for the vets to school the rookies in RLs, RIL, RIJs, Whales, Sugar Daddys and how to keep the lights on, the rent paid, gas in the car, food on the table, weed in their boyfriend's pocket, tuition taken care of WITH YOUR MONEY.

What's CREEPY is that you don't see all this but say you do but keep going on until the train tracks start straining from the delusions.

Before the year is over she's going to meet over ONE THOUSAND GUYS while she's naked. The law of averages say that a certain percentage are going to be asking themselves "Does she really like me?"

And the better her hustle gets the number of guys who ask themselves that question is going to increase. If it doesn't then she has no game or hustle.

princessjas
02-18-2010, 07:59 PM
Pedophilia is recognized as a "problem" condition only when it results in behavioral changes and actions that are to the detriment of others. HEMOphilia is the term for those with an attraction to PUBESCENTs,

K, first I only think this is a problem because it DOES cause emotional harm to the younger person in the majority of cases. 2nd, gotta ask...did you mean hebephilia? I really don't think you meant Hemophilia, a group of clotting disorders that cause people to bleed excessively. ;D


Nobody has explained yet why a young person is somehow better off being limited to people just as immature as they are and likely MORE prone to messed up behavior than they are by expanding their options to include stable, caring adults. Either gender goes here.
Because the balance of power is equal in these relationships. Yanno, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and it doesn't matter if you want it or not, in almost all relationships with a girl that young (15, not 19) you WILL have that much power. They see older mates as authority figures as well as romantic interests in nearly all cases. This causes their feeling to be magnified...yep, even more so than when they are being all dramatic and stupid with each other. That's why all my friends that dated older guys in HS ended up committing or attempting suicide or just became drugged out (and we were good girl honor students), and you wouldn't believe the dramaz that we had to hear about during the time they were fucking the old guys.


In fact, if you really look at it from a straight logical standpoint with your fully developed over the age of 25 brain, I would think I wouldn't let my kid date anyone UNDER 25. It literally makes more sense. So again - why are teens better off being limited to other teens? There has not been a decent rebuttal or argument yet, just a lot of rhetoric.

It was in one of your earlier posts that I accidentally deleted...when you said "even temporarily." I think that is the crux of the issue most of us girls have. We've all seen our friends and peers date older men and seen the results. The girl usually falls hard and fast, moreso than with a guy her age. Then realizes the guy only wants her for sex...maybe he even thought he was interested or "in love" but then her immaturity came through and he changed his mind. Well, a 30 year old has the emotional maturity to handle that kind of a broken heart, whereas the 15 year old is likely to slit her wrists, or start using drugs or getting wasted to "forget" about her broken heart.

Oh, and the reference to how it was acceptable in recent history is laughable...it was also acceptable to rape your wife, or any peasant girl you wanted to. So, as you would tell us, don't give me that garbage. :P

Finally, I'll say, that while in MOST cases I think it is inexcusable and causes harm, I do agree that it isn't always going to be bad every single time, in every single case. But when you've seen so many young people hurt by it, WHY not just say... Ok, because of the potential to cause harm, I'm not going to do that. :-\ That's where my whole issue is in this debate I think. It just seems selfish. And I also notice that almost all of the women, who have actually been teenage girls, seem to think it's innapropriate.

princessjas
02-18-2010, 08:04 PM
Uh, yes. Those are the only two options. He's either a reasonably mature adult, which is a lot more mature than a 15-16 year old, or reasonably immature for his age, which is inappropriate. Is there like some third level of maturity in which one is not mature but not not mature? If not, those really are the only 2 ways it can go.

Stable caring adults can be part of a child's life in a non sexual way. I would indeed be of the opinion that anyone around 35+, in a physical relationship with a 15-16 year old, is not stable. I mean it's illegal in many places, so to risk the ire of the law over a girl when you could just wait a few years or find tail somewhere else, to me, means that person's a little unhinged.

I'd much rather my 15-16 year old child was dating another 15-16 year old child precisely because they are stupid. Because things are a bigger deal to another 15-16 year old. They're easier to impress - and to intimidate. Because they can talk about age relevant things together. Because they don't have cars. Because they'll likely have mutual friends, hobbies, and experiences. Because no one will ask if their teenage partner is their mom or dad. Because a relationship is about equals.

Because like KS_Stevia, I've been there, done that, and I have yet to meet the caring, stable adult, that thinks it's okay to act on his urges to bone a 15-16 year old.

Ditto on all this. Wish I'd read this before I wrote out my mini-novella. lol This says it all I think.

dlabtot
02-18-2010, 09:02 PM
Wow, pretty intense thread... two comments

1. The idealized "15-16 year old" discussed in some of these posts is in no way relevant to the dancer described by the OP. What a bizarre tangent...

2. The trainwreck is inevitable. What is not inevitable is that it will be spectacular or destructive. The best that can be hoped for is a relatively painless derailment preceded by:
a. a lot of money for her
b. a lot of fun for him

FBR
02-18-2010, 09:08 PM
Keep the conversation about 18+ ladies.

Thanks,
FBR

Everyman
02-18-2010, 09:18 PM
Wow, pretty intense thread... two comments

1. The idealized "15-16 year old" discussed in some of these posts is in no way relevant to the dancer described by the OP. What a bizarre tangent...

2. The trainwreck is inevitable. What is not inevitable is that it will be spectacular or destructive. The best that can be hoped for is a relatively painless derailment preceded by:
a. a lot of money for her
b. a lot of fun for him

There will be no train wreck, spectacular or otherwise. There will be no heartbreak or longing or angst or creepiness or stalking. It's always a possibility (it happens, especially among newbies) that tomorrow she doesn't show up for work, and never comes in again. If so, life goes on.

Some of you act like I'm some kind of first time visitor wondering if the stripper really loves me, or if it's an act. This is not my first rodeo, people.

yoda57us
02-18-2010, 09:32 PM
Some of you act like I'm some kind of first time visitor wondering if the stripper really loves me, or if it's an act.

Well, if the shoe fits....::)

dlabtot
02-18-2010, 10:13 PM
There will be no heartbreak or longing or angst or creepiness or stalking.

Except... you've already expressed longing.... heartbreak and angst pretty much inevitably follow in this situation... creepiness or stalking... that's up to you...

chris91
02-18-2010, 10:51 PM
First of all, don't start quoting science if you don't know the research behind it. DO you WHAT PARTS of the brain are and are not developed at what stages? The parts of the brain associated with mate selection and emotion are some of the FIRST to be finished, most of it before puberty, in fact. The logical parts of the brain associated with higher math and complex logic are the last; and only in very recent society are these parts of the brin of any value in a relationship, LMAO!

I think princessjas covered this pretty well, with "impulse control" being the key words.



Secondly, don't use scientific basis' to support your conclusions if those conclusions aren't
technically correct. For one, see above. For another, your terminology is wrong, typical for reactionary activist types....blah blah blah

Ok, my terminology is wrong, but my point is still valid. I believe someone else pointed out some flaws in your terminology as well.



Note that nothing in any medical journal ANYWHERE regards ephebophilia as a dangerous or even unhealthy condition; and in fact it is more common than the "normal" state; so far as to technically BE the norm. The ONLY reason that any negative connotations exist are legal, having to do with the establishment of "age of consent" laws and the like. Fact is, most human males are genetically wired to seek out post-pubescent mates once their mate nears menopause, and for MOST OF HISTORY it has been PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE to do so. Whether or no they act on it is beside he point; modern "sensibilities" have determined that this completely normal and natural tendency is "wrong", "sick", and "unhealthy".

I never said that it is unacceptable to be attracted to young girls. Only that it is wrong to act on that attraction. Simmer down and read what I write before you jump all over me.



The "age of consent" laws were established to place some kind of boundaries on these distinctions. Note that the age of consent is NOT 18, in MOST states in the US it is 16, in a couple it is 15, in a few it's 17, and in 6 or 7 it's 18. I find it funny in a bad way that you say these laws enable "pedophiles", the establishment of these laws actually raised the average age of marriage significantly. SO basically you're saying that before these laws were passed, most of the men in America at least (in most of the rest of the world, it wouldn't be in the past tense) were "pedophiles".

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you mean by pedophiles here. Do you mean men who are attracted to pre-pubescents or do you mean ephebophiles? The quotes are throwing me off, and the general sassiness of your post makes it seem like you're using the word to make fun of me.

I just need you to clear that up before I answer your question and have to read another novel about how I *gasp* used the wrong word.



Please rebut with something other than rhetoric and anger. Facts to support your position would be the weapon of choice here.

You know, putting "I respect you" at the beginning of your post does not make bitchiness less bitchy. It just makes you look like a liar.

Also, I don't need to hear anymore about how in the good old days, it was perfectly fine to fuck kids. We don't live in the good old days. In modern society, you have to have some self control lest you end up heart-broken, HIV positive, and raising a gaggle of kids fathered by some 40 year old douchebag who couldn't be bothered to worry about how his fucking you might affect your mental well-being.

Hopper
02-19-2010, 02:37 AM
What comes into it other than biology? If a person's brain is incapable of making rational decisions, then how will that person make rational decisions?

Experience, upbringing, education, culture etc. We aren't totally biological.

A person of any age can make rational decisions and people over 25 can be very irrational. Therefore there are other things than biology which affect people's decisions. You talk like anyone under 25 is completely ruled by their hormones and has no brain at all.


Sure, I can't say that nowhere in the history of time and space has it ever been ok for a 40 year old to mess around with a 19 year old. If the 40 year old were developmentally challenged and the 19 year old had a bionic brain, then maybe it would be okay. There are always exceptions to the rule; however, the rule is: 40 year olds should not mess around with 19 year olds.

Those are great exceptions. I'm glad you can be flexible.

I don't want to get into an argument over the ethics of age differences and the boundaries of under-age. I don't even know what my own opinions are on those. I have never had to think about them, since I have never been attracted to an under-age girl, except when I was under-age (which by your logic might still have been wrong).

All I am saying is that it is not something which we should dictate absolute rules about, as there is with adults having sex with ten-year-olds. I definitely don't think laws should be made about it - i.e. raising the age of consent to 25.

I think this PC mentality is the same type as in the Victorian era, when society's moral guardians knew what is best for everyone else and refused to even acknowledge the realities of human sexuality, characterising any unchaste thought as vile and sick. It's a rigid morality, a purifying mentality. Such fanaticism is dangerous.

I'm not classing you as a fanatic Christy, but it seems you have fallen into this type of thinking.


It's not a matter of opinion. You cannot agree or disagree with facts.

I can disagree that they are facts. Your "facts" are really an ethical judgement based on an interpretation of only some of the facts.

I can sympathise somewhat with your stance. That we celebrate 21st birthdays indicates that it iwe consider that to be when a person has "come of age". Most 18-yo's (of both sexes) I meet seem relatively like kids, both physically and mentally. I recall that at that age I sitll saw seeing myself as being somewhat immature, although I was living on my own.

But I don't consider them children, developed brain or no developed brain.

WestCoast101
02-19-2010, 03:14 AM
multiple years and "low 100's" meaning what 200? or 300? different strippers you paid for dances with and only one kissing you before this girl becomes #2,

Facebook and midnite calls don't make it OTC, nor does it sound that fast.. I'm sure you other serious dancers talked etc.

Despite what many dancers on SW insist, make out style kissing is not a big deal for a significant minority of dancers today, and if you meet some minimal threshold, they like you as a customer, you look healthy, many will engage in it, some with a select few regs, others with more guys.

You entire question (which i believe to be a legit qustion) seems to implicitly derive from the fact that you attach significance to this 19 yr old "making out" with you, because its the precise thing that is profundly different than 99% of those other dancers.

Hopper
02-19-2010, 03:15 AM
God I hate what this thread has devolved into. A bunch of PLs and strippers debating brain science? I don't even take at face value what BRAIN SCIENTISTS say about childhood/adulthood, since there is no certainty, and the dividing line is just a judgment call anyway.

Princess, in what way am I acting like a creepy stalker? I've called the girl once (at her invitation), no texts, no personal appearances, she comes running when I show up in the club. Am I doing something creepy I don't know about?

Spent much of the afternoon with her and we're going to lunch tomorrow. Not for pay. Hope I can avoid acting too creepy.

You may have noticed by now on this site that strippers can use anything you say as provocation while they can excuse anything they say by saying they were tired, drunk, stoned, in a hurry or mad at something you said. (Of course, not all strippers here actually make use of these excuses.)

I think many people here are reading too much into your OP and not crediting you with the intelligence you seem to have. It is condescending of them to be constantly warning you against being fooled by a 19-yo girl. I expect that you will take due care. They are also presumptious to call you creepy over just having lunch with this girl. She gave you her number and FB and invited you into her life, so I don't see anything wierd about meeting up with her IRL. Many other guys have IRL friendships with strippers who work in their clubs and are probably just as attracted to them as you are to the girl you are talking about here - and nobody calls them creepy.

However, many customer and stripper comments here have been intended to warn you about possible reasons for her behaviour. All we can really say, however, is that she is young, new to stripping, perhaps a bit ditzy, perhaps a just free-spirited and careless about her comments. There is no clear indication of ulterior motives. It is merely possible that she is cleverly hiding sinister motives.

Hopper
02-19-2010, 03:22 AM
...

Oh, and the creepy factor comes in from you being obsessive enough to start this thread. If you are spending that much time thinking about her that is a HUGE stalker red flag, imo.

...actual scientific articles and such, yanno I'm a stickler for that..

Oh yeah, that's real scientific.

The intention of the OP was to ask about the girl's behaviour, nothing more than that as far as we know. Thinking about a girl isn't stalking, even if it's 24/7. There's nothing spooky about a guy thinking about a pretty girl or wondering about her behaviour toward him.

princessjas
02-19-2010, 10:58 AM
Oh yeah, that's real scientific.

The intention of the OP was to ask about the girl's behaviour, nothing more than that as far as we know. Thinking about a girl isn't stalking, even if it's 24/7. There's nothing spooky about a guy thinking about a pretty girl or wondering about her behaviour toward him.

The request for only scientific data was for the brain activity tangent, nothing to do with Everyman's issue. If are having difficulty following the thread, maybe you shouldn't comment?

The statement to Everyman was very much an opinion. An opinion from someone who has experienced men behaving obsessively, so maybe has a better grasp on how women feel when confronted with this than you do.

WestCoast101
02-19-2010, 12:16 PM
Hopper, I agree that the OP's post is a valid question and i'm glad he posted it, and it was probably unfair for so many in here to attack him as a one foot in the door already potential stalker type creep,.. but in fairness the reason dancers are so touchy on this issue is because they are dealing with the general public, and ANY guy can visit a strip club, and the "captive to their shift" issue which i've repeatedyl spoken of (apparently not relevant in Everyman's case at this point) is also a very legit issue.

Dancers deal with guys all the time that are social misfits, who can easily misinterpret standard hustle techniques or mere kindness for something more, and that is why they are paranoid.

Actually these creeps that often frequent strip clubs make it like a slice of heaven sometimes in clubs for legit clean cut business types

jack0177057
02-19-2010, 01:34 PM
Do you really care whether she likes you "romatically"? -- Do you want to marry her and start a family?....

Or is your real question - Would she sleep with me?... She sounds like a party girl to me... Play the sugar daddy role, invite her out to a great rave party (assuming they let in old guys like you), get her some good Ecstacy,... and you could probably score with her.

Everyman
02-19-2010, 01:36 PM
Update.

Lunch = good. No money (except I paid for lunch), no weirdness, no awkward pauses or difficulty in conversation.

Topics of conversation included drugs, music, whether she really wants to be a stripper (she seems morally ok with it but thinks she can't stay with it more than 6 months because she doesn't like getting herself "all faked up" and doesn't like schmoozing people), our age difference (she said, "why wouldn't guys your age like girls my age, we're in our prime!"), her parents, and what we thought about each other (I said I didn't know her well enough to care for her yet, but it was a possibility in the future, she said she felt the same way so we should continue to get to know each other like this instead of at the "fake club").

A chaste kiss to part ways, I'm still not getting romantic vibes from her, think it's more of a daddy thing, but it was fun.

MissMynxx
02-19-2010, 01:47 PM
The latter parts of this thread and what it's devolved into really offended me when I first read it. I decided not to post because honestly, you all have managed to be really civil and I was not about to bring my riled-up little butt in here.

I'm calmer now. ;D Rather than stepping up on a soap box and ranting off about the uncertainties in developing brain science, old and new psychological studies on the science behind attraction, etc. - I figure I'll post a couple personal experiences here. Just to give another POV.

From the time I was around 13, I have dated almost exclusively older men. I tried dating boys my own age between 14 and 17, and found myself frankly fed up with their immaturity, bored by their lack of understanding, and increasingly irritated with their unabashed stupidity.

Allow me to say, from the perspective of a girl who HAS been a teenager ACTIVELY SEEKING OLDER MEN - that this is not an easy task. I live in a big city, where you'd expect to find plenty of predators just waiting to jump out of the bushes at some impressionable, easily manipulated 16 year old girl. Um ... not so much! Girls of that age aren't as stupid as you may think - not all of us anyway. I knew the signs of pedophilia and predatory behavior from having a horrible involuntary sexual experience with my step-father. I recognize all the signs of "grooming" and other sick behaviors. I was well-educated about sex, the risks, birth control, and such. I had a car. I had a job. I paid bills. Granted, this isn't always true of every teenage girl - but SOME of us are out there!

When I did finally manage to get into relationships - some fairly serious - with men substantially older than me, I was in HEAVEN. Appreciated for my youth, patiently guided when I made mistakes, helped with homework, etc. My dad wasn't exactly thrilled when my 16-year-old ass brought home my 37-year-old TA, but I was calmer. I stopped smoking weed. I did my homework. I went to work on time. It was a THOROUGHLY positive experience for me. I also learned a lot about respecting myself, seeing myself as worth MORE than the retarded bullshit I put up with my boys my own age. And the tricks I learned in the sack has made me a force to reckon with. }:D

My 3 best friends and I all share the same outlook. One girl is 19, currently single - her ex is 31. She's currently involved sexually with two other friends of mine, who are married to one another and bring her in for fun and companionship. It's a wonderful relationship the three of them have. Her two partners are 26 and 32.

Another girl is getting married this year. She'll be 20. Her fiance is 42. They've been dating seriously since she was 14. She's graduating with her Master's in Psychology in August. He runs a computer company in Portland, and has been divorced.

My other friend just recently came to the dark side. She'd been dating boys her own age and recently met a man just a few years her senior. She's still in a LD relationship with this man, a successful businessman who runs his own company in France - and she's actively noticed her tastes in men running toward the substantially older.

Personally, when I was 19 I broke the stripper rule and started dating AJ who was in the club as a customer. He's 13 years my senior and WAAAAAY too young for me. I always tell him that the only reason I keep him around is because he's going grey early. LOL I'm not some stupid, uninformed, immature KID. I haven't been for ages! I was out on my own at 16 with my father's blessing. Some of us can hold our own with people in their 30's and 40's. I only have my close female friends in my age group. Everyone else I know and associate myself with is over 30. AJ and I are getting married in September.

I realize my friends and I are sorta exceptions to the rule - but NONE of us have been hurt by older men, in fact, my absolute worst relationship and sexual experiences have been with people 0-4 years older than me. That includes my step-father. My experience with him was FAR LESS damaging than anything I've been through with people closer to my age.

I actively encourage my younger friends - people's daughters and sisters - to educate themselves, figure out where they want to be and what they THINK they want out of life, and seek it with an older partner who will be world's more supportive and intelligent than someone their age.

I learned and grew more in my relationships with older men than I'd ever imagined. How far I've come in just the year AJ and I have been together is nothing short of amazing. It wouldn't be fair to deny me, my friends, our partners and lovers, and other girls and women out there of this experience.

I realize this isn't true of every girl and every older man - but try to realize that for every one of us that's had a negative experience, there's another one of us who wouldn't have traded our life experiences, who wouldn't trade our older partners and lovers for something that's socially described as normal. Fuck that noise! :D

I am forever grateful to my family for being tolerant and accepting, while watching with a close eye for my safety. I wouldn't be who I am today without my older partners and my caring family. I wouldn't give that up for the world.

But hey, what do I know. I'm 21 - my brain isn't done developing yet. 8)

yoda57us
02-19-2010, 02:12 PM
A chaste kiss to part ways, I'm still not getting romantic vibes from her, think it's more of a daddy thing, but it was fun.

Sounds more like a weird black sheep uncle fixation. You know, the one that no one else in the family talks to...

KS_Stevia
02-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Fortunately your experiences have been good MissM. That's just not what I've seen for myself and my close girlfriends when they have dated much older men, being very young. And there is no scientific evidence to bring into the discussion because its a socially "sticky" situation with a lot of legal issues involved.

So all any of us can really speak of is from our experience. And for all of your positive examples, I've seen as many negative. Does this make the entire debate a drawl? I don't know. Personally I am not invested in it in any way, so its not my place to judge. I'm older now and won't be having kids. My SO is 9 years my senior. 41 and 32 make sense. 18 and 27...a lot of other factors come into play, but I won't continue the threadjack..

I think the OP has gotten his resolution.

WestCoast101
02-19-2010, 03:59 PM
Update.

Lunch = good. No money (except I paid for lunch), no weirdness, no awkward pauses or difficulty in conversation.

Topics of conversation included drugs, music, whether she really wants to be a stripper (she seems morally ok with it but thinks she can't stay with it more than 6 months because she doesn't like getting herself "all faked up" and doesn't like schmoozing people), our age difference (she said, "why wouldn't guys your age like girls my age, we're in our prime!"), her parents, and what we thought about each other (I said I didn't know her well enough to care for her yet, but it was a possibility in the future, she said she felt the same way so we should continue to get to know each other like this instead of at the "fake club").

A chaste kiss to part ways, I'm still not getting romantic vibes from her, think it's more of a daddy thing, but it was fun.

Its certainly a bit out of the ordinary.

Could be her testing her powers over older guys, and the novelty of it. Just entering the business especially that young, and upset some natural balances.

As for the Daddy thing, maybe, but of course no "making out" with Daddys

You might want to ask yourselfe how passionate is the making out. Obviously there are huge variations in intensity, where everything is mutual and the actual positions she lets you put her into. Kissing once it happens (even for money) once is happens, occasionally at least does induce passions in otherwsie platonic situations.

The in-between "bad guys" stop gap/flill in thing is possible, its already setup with the Old BF , then the bouncer, with the in-between guy the "nice guy" Now some "nice guys" get the sex too for awhile, but never the passion or the chemistry needed to sustain it.

On Wednesaydaytime i'm with this dancer, only a few months in the business., absolutely gorgeous girl, very pretty , delicate looks, 10 face for sure and 9 body because she is small As,. ballerina type,, but i almost fell off the chair when she said something during the lap dance, which happens to be more private than typical. Been with her once once before on a lap dance, given her money for hanging at the bar a few times. She is absolutelya straight laced non-party girl, college, and serious and will explain her goals in life. Way too young for me, and I wasn't even thinking about it, but the subject of 'germs" she brings it, and how she is can be concern with her, and the subject of kissing came up in passing , and she says " but maybe i might do that" (i guess at some point) but I don't even think I'm that attracted to her (i feel gulty even being with her) and I got other things going on, but I have to wonder (since i get by the club now and then) if i were to focus on her a bit more instead of a few other girls at the club. started buying champagne rooms etc. These dancers can be very unpredictable, they can be curious too

WestCoast101
02-19-2010, 04:02 PM
sorry i forgot to mention a critical fact, she is just 20 yrs old.

WestCoast101
02-19-2010, 04:05 PM
sorry and she just started in the business several months ago.

hockeybobby
02-19-2010, 04:10 PM
Excellent! Keep us updated. Do you think she likes you?

Everyman
02-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Sounds more like a weird black sheep uncle fixation. You know, the one that no one else in the family talks to...

Dunno what you mean by this...like I'm the black sheep uncle, or she's the black sheep niece? Her parents kicked her out of the house for smoking weed, if that plays into your theory, but they still talk to her. Disapprove of stripping but accept it, what can they do.

Found out her parents are my age, she says "but you seem soooooo much younger than them!" Lol, of all the things she's ever said, that's the most likely to be pure SS, but I'll take it.

Resolution? Hardly. We're just getting started.....

Djoser
02-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Sounds like she likes him more than a guy who sits there for hours not spending any money on her (or anyone else either).

:D

As for the age thing, I made the big mistake of getting involved seriously (like two years) with a woman who had just turned 19. Mentally we had one of the closest bonds I have ever experienced, so that at first the big age gap didn't seem to matter. But eventually it did. Not saying it can't work, I'm saying it's tough to pull off--and the greater the difference, the tougher it is.

sxcbbw
02-19-2010, 04:30 PM
Sounds like she likes him more than a guy who sits there for hours not spending any money on her (or anyone else either).

:D

As for the age thing, I made the big mistake of getting involved seriously (like two years) with a woman who had just turned 19. Mentally we had one of the closest bonds I have ever experienced, so that at first the big age gap didn't seem to matter. But eventually it did. Not saying it can't work, I'm saying it's tough to pull off--and the greater the difference, the tougher it is.

As a 20 year old that has seen that thread.. with the pictures, you know the one, you just struck a huge blow to my hopes and dreams. ;)

yoda57us
02-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Dunno what you mean by this...like I'm the black sheep uncle, or she's the black sheep niece? Her parents kicked her out of the house for smoking weed, if that plays into your theory, but they still talk to her. Disapprove of stripping but accept it, what can they do.



It was a joke EM ( a bad one I guess). But, honestly, do you really want a girl who is dancing naked for you to have a "daddy fixation" for you?

In any event, I don't know you and I am not implying that you are a black sheep IRL.

Djoser
02-20-2010, 03:33 AM
As a 20 year old that has seen that thread.. with the pictures, you know the one, you just struck a huge blow to my hopes and dreams. ;)

I thank you for the compliment. You could call me a hypocrite for saying this (and it wouldn't be the first time I was so accused) but my favorite girl at the moment is a 19 year old dancer from England. I've been told she likes me, and it could be true. I just like hanging out with her and she's very cute. But only an idiot would try to marry her or anything like that, with the age difference.

mediocrity
02-20-2010, 03:39 AM
As a 20 year old that has seen that thread.. with the pictures, you know the one, you just struck a huge blow to my hopes and dreams. ;)

oh c'mon sxcbbw- you totally want a 45 yr old BF. ;) Don't lie.

Hopper
02-20-2010, 04:09 AM
It was a joke EM ( a bad one I guess). But, honestly, do you really want a girl who is dancing naked for you to have a "daddy fixation" for you?

It's not like he's her real father and he said it's "more like a daddy thing", not a "daddy fixation". LOL - all these people rushing to throw cold water on an older guy and a young girl having lunch. At a stripper website.

Hopper
02-20-2010, 04:22 AM
The request for only scientific data was for the brain activity tangent, nothing to do with Everyman's issue. If are having difficulty following the thread, maybe you shouldn't comment?

Just thought you might apply your trained scientific mind to other situations.


The statement to Everyman was very much an opinion. An opinion from someone who has experienced men behaving obsessively, so maybe has a better grasp on how women feel when confronted with this than you do.

Everyman isn't behaving obsessively and we are not talking about "how women feel". Obviously the girl who is the subject of the thread feels okay about his behaviour. He didn't ask us to comment on his own behaviour, he is asking about the girl's behaviour. I don't see anything wrong with his behaviour or anything he has said here.

It's natural for him to be curious about this girl's behaviour since (as everybody else here agrees) it is unusual. You said this is a "HUGE (capitals yours) stalker red flag". It just doesn't follow, regardless of what your experiences have been. Your experiences are no justification for unfair comments about the OP. Obsessing isn't the same as stalking and EM isn't obsessing, he's just wondering.

Stalker paranoia has become a problem itself over past decades. Calling any man who gives a woman more than usual attention a stalker belittles the term "stalker". A stalker is someone who follows, watches and calls a woman all the time and possibly poses a threat, not just someone who thinks about her and calls or visits her a lot (that might be annoying, but it's not a threat). A paranoid police-caller is just as freaky and dangerous as a stalker.

It's like "stalker fans" of celebrities. Once they were just obsessive fans who followed their idols around and went to extreme and daring lengths just to meet them. Now when a celebrity attracts such a fan the media reports them as being "under siege" from a dangerous stalker.

It's like something lawyers would cook up to keep them in business.