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SupaByoch
03-27-2011, 03:50 AM
Or it means she didn't look after her health and let her boobs go,

Spoken like a true clueless idiot. There isn't a damn thing one can do about natural breasts falling and losing fullness over time. Unless the woman is 19 and never gained/lost weight or been pregnant, her natural breasts are going to lose fullness and sag a bit, not matter what she does.

Hopper
03-27-2011, 05:29 AM
Spoken like a true clueless idiot. There isn't a damn thing one can do about natural breasts falling and losing fullness over time. Unless the woman is 19 and never gained/lost weight or been pregnant, her natural breasts are going to lose fullness and sag a bit, not matter what she does.

I realize those effects play a part over time, though some women manage to avoid even those. The post I responding to was saying that BAs are the only way to counter the effects of natural degeneration of the body. But natural decay can also be fought by maintaining health and fitness, which is the best way. The rate at which boobs lose their shape depends on the woman's attention to maintaining her body, not just the less avoidable effects of time or pregnancy. We often see teenage girls with drooping, shapeless boobs. BAs lose their shape over time too.

xxxchili
03-27-2011, 05:48 AM
I know I want these not only for the club but for my personal life as well. :(


I think its good that you're wanting them for personal reasons too and not just for work. As far as dancing goes, I made more money after my boob job.

Jessie_tinydancer
03-27-2011, 09:47 AM
I realize those effects play a part over time, though some women manage to avoid even those. The post I responding to was saying that BAs are the only way to counter the effects of natural degeneration of the body. But natural decay can also be fought by maintaining health and fitness, which is the best way. The rate at which boobs lose their shape depends on the woman's attention to maintaining her body, not just the less avoidable effects of time or pregnancy. We often see teenage girls with drooping, shapeless boobs. BAs lose their shape over time too.

Sorry dude but the sag of your breasts has to do with the level of elasticity of your connective tissue and skin. Yes you can work the pec muscle but that is underneath the breast, but the actual breast is fat and connective tissue. The heavier your breasts are, the quicker they will sag but it is dependant on your tissue. That is genetic. Sure leading a relatively healthy lifestyle means your skin is going to be in better condition but it will not make a drastic result. That is why as you mention even teens have saggy breasts sometimes. Its because their tissue doesnt support the weight as well as someone elses. Surely as a teenager their lifestyle is relatively healthy. The bigger the breast, the more chance of sagging (thats why yes implants do get saggy eventually). The reason women still have perkies late in life is because they either have small breasts so their is not enough weight and/or they have really fantastic tissue elasticity which is genetic. The best way to fight sagging breasts is to wear a supportive bra 24/7. Unfortunately breastfeeding and weightloss sag cannot be prevented by bras though.

CherryBomb954
03-28-2011, 01:08 AM
I would never be wholly attracted to a woman who has that level of self-assurance or ease with herself..

Good thing we're not dating, then.

kaiarose
03-28-2011, 05:51 AM
Why are we even defending our choice?? Hopper isn't giving us any money.

Hopper
03-28-2011, 06:37 AM
^ You brought it up. I just thought it was all part of the thread topic discussion. None of what I say is aimed at you personally. You used your own experience to make your point and I discussed it only in regard to your point. It's not about defending, we are supposed to be discussing the topic.

rickdugan
03-28-2011, 09:45 AM
Perhaps I shouldn't be lecturing women about how to feel about this but...

Seriously - does your life revolve that much around lingerie? Is it seriously essential to a woman for maintaining emotional health and self-confidence? A lingerie company?? Does this not rather tell you something is wrong? I would never be wholly attracted to a woman who has that level of self-assurance or ease with herself..

And then you went on to do exactly that. You probably should have stuck with your first instinct there. ;)

rickdugan
03-28-2011, 09:51 AM
I realize those effects play a part over time, though some women manage to avoid even those. The post I responding to was saying that BAs are the only way to counter the effects of natural degeneration of the body. But natural decay can also be fought by maintaining health and fitness, which is the best way. The rate at which boobs lose their shape depends on the woman's attention to maintaining her body, not just the less avoidable effects of time or pregnancy. We often see teenage girls with drooping, shapeless boobs. BAs lose their shape over time too.

Where do you get this stuff?

Have you been with a pregnant woman? Dated any single mothers and seen the "before" and "after" breasts? The effects of pregnancy alone are enormous and can significantly change breast size and direction, even with mothers that do not nurse after the baby is born.

Now I'm no defender of boob jobs - I hate fake breasts and simply don't spend on a dancer who has them, period. But far be it from me to lecture girls on a chat board as to whether they should get them. And you certainly won't find me trying to teach the girls about their own anatomy either. ;)

Jessie_tinydancer
03-28-2011, 11:26 PM
Why are we even defending our choice?? Hopper isn't giving us any money.

True that Kaiarose... but I wasnt defending our choice. Its just my pet peeve when people start spouting off about anatomy, health or physiology when they literally dont know a thing about it. I on the other hand spend 10+ hours a week studying histology and looking under a microscope at various tissues and cells. So I only think it fair to impart some of that knowledge instead of letting people wander the earth under the assumption that something they read on a magazine or on an internet forum is fact.

anacol
03-29-2011, 12:00 AM
True that Kaiarose... but I wasnt defending our choice. Its just my pet peeve when people start spouting off about anatomy, health or physiology when they literally dont know a thing about it. I on the other hand spend 10+ hours a week studying histology and looking under a microscope at various tissues and cells. So I only think it fair to impart some of that knowledge instead of letting people wander the earth under the assumption that something they read on a magazine or on an internet forum is fact.
I totally agree and men don't know the half of what women go thru or what their bodies r like at any stage of their life! Getting a BA should be a choice made from within for a great purpose and not just to entertain men. Because once it's done, you'll be the one living with it. I know that whenever I hv kids, if I need another BA, I'll def be getting one! LOL. So to the person that started the thread, no matter what our opinions are, you need to really think abt the decision yourself! :)

tempest666
03-29-2011, 12:13 AM
I'll be honest, if y'all didn't know you know now. I'm getting it solely as a career move and investment. to me it's no different than investing in a mutual fund or 401k. I know it will pay for itself cause it's like the Dirty Harry pistol. Bigger is better and all you have to do is point, aim and bag your target :D

Dixie Passion
03-29-2011, 12:55 AM
Tittie men to me are immature but I think a well done boob job will make you money.

Hopper
03-29-2011, 01:27 AM
And then you went on to do exactly that. You probably should have stuck with your first instinct there. ;)

If only you had it. That's what the "but" meant and I only said "perhaps". Also, I did not intend that to be direction for CB oabout her feelings in particular, I meant it as a comment about women in general. She merely supplied an instance of what I was talking about. The thread is not about her, so I assume she was talking about her own experience as an example of how she thinks all women are affected. I risked lecturing in order to make a reasonable point, which most people who responded, including you, seem to have missed. In the part of CB's post I was responding to, she wasn't only talking about herself but women in general: "And forget Victoria's Secret....one thing every woman should be able to enjoy at least once in her life." Meaning women should all be having surgical implants just to keep VS in business. Not that they only make bras. The general theme of what I was saying to them, and of their responses, was what men like as opposed to what women think men like, which is as much due to media images as it is to actual male preferences. That is in keeping with the thread topic, which is "Do guys like fake boobs?".

Hopper
03-29-2011, 01:43 AM
Where do you get this stuff?

Have you been with a pregnant woman? Dated any single mothers and seen the "before" and "after" breasts? The effects of pregnancy alone are enormous and can significantly change breast size and direction, even with mothers that do not nurse after the baby is born.

Yes of course I have. I didn't say pregnancy had no effect, I just said that maintaining fitness is also a factor in preventing boobs sagging. That is made clear in the passage you quoted. Somehow you missed it.


Now I'm no defender of boob jobs - I hate fake breasts and simply don't spend on a dancer who has them, period. But far be it from me to lecture girls on a chat board as to whether they should get them. And you certainly won't find me trying to teach the girls about their own anatomy either. ;)

I would hope that all men know a little about female anatomy. Apparently you do, because you are lecturing me. Initially I responded to a male poster so I was not lecturing women at all. Then I responded to the women who responded to that comment. My comments after that were in keeping with the topic - "what men like". Is it okay if I say why? Make a little relevant social comment? Basically I was only expressing my concern about women being influenced to get BAs for wrong reasons. I was not telling them what they should do. You might even say it is they who are lecturing me about what I like.

Hopper
03-29-2011, 01:49 AM
I totally agree and men don't know the half of what women go thru or what their bodies r like at any stage of their life! Getting a BA should be a choice made from within for a great purpose and not just to entertain men. Because once it's done, you'll be the one living with it. I know that whenever I hv kids, if I need another BA, I'll def be getting one! LOL. So to the person that started the thread, no matter what our opinions are, you need to really think abt the decision yourself! :)

Such as?

Hopper
03-29-2011, 02:01 AM
Sorry dude but the sag of your breasts has to do with the level of elasticity of your connective tissue and skin. Yes you can work the pec muscle but that is underneath the breast, but the actual breast is fat and connective tissue. The heavier your breasts are, the quicker they will sag but it is dependant on your tissue. That is genetic. Sure leading a relatively healthy lifestyle means your skin is going to be in better condition but it will not make a drastic result. That is why as you mention even teens have saggy breasts sometimes. Its because their tissue doesnt support the weight as well as someone elses. Surely as a teenager their lifestyle is relatively healthy. The bigger the breast, the more chance of sagging (thats why yes implants do get saggy eventually). The reason women still have perkies late in life is because they either have small breasts so their is not enough weight and/or they have really fantastic tissue elasticity which is genetic. The best way to fight sagging breasts is to wear a supportive bra 24/7. Unfortunately breastfeeding and weightloss sag cannot be prevented by bras though.

Since not everybody, not even histologists, agrees on what a healthy lifestyle is, I would not expect the verdict to be in on that. It's arguable therefore about how much is due to genes and how much is due to care. Whatever it is, good health should be a woman's first line of defense. (I know that is easier said than done.) The attitude should not be "I'll just let it go and fix it with BAs when it gets bad". I certainly don't think teenagers all have healthy lifestyles; not even relatively, though that is not saying much either considering most other people's lifestyles.

Since you study this first hand however, and you own breasts yourself, I do value your opinion. I can see how it may be simply over optimistic to expect boobs to keep their shape late into a woman's life even with an ideal lifestyle. It's an imperfect universe. But consider that another reason breasts sag is over-weight, where the connective tissue has to deal with the weight of extra fat in the breasts. In this case fitness definitely would help maintain breast shape. In particular there are definitely many overweight teenagers.

Hopper
03-29-2011, 02:26 AM
Tittie men to me are immature but I think a well done boob job will make you money.

I was going to make a similar comment. Past the age of about 18, men should be over their fascination with tits, having by that time handled enough of them to realize they are just that - tits. If they can't do that for free, there are always strip clubs. This is why I don't understand the fixation of both men and women on boob size to the extent that they want to increase it artificially with surgical implants. They don't always even give a natural-seeming result, which seems to defeat the purpose. I am not solidly against BAs and sometimes I like them, but it is way too common and popular to be all justified. I am a great fan of big tits myself but I still admire women for many other qualities and have completely fallen for many women with small boobs.

Jessie_tinydancer
03-29-2011, 03:06 AM
Since not everybody, not even histologists, agrees on what a healthy lifestyle is, I would not expect the verdict to be in on that. It's arguable therefore about how much is due to genes and how much is due to care. Whatever it is, it is be the first thing a woman should try. (I know that is easier said than done.) I certainly don't think teenagers all have healthy lifestyles; not even relatively, though that is not saying much either considering most other people's lifestyles. Since you study this first hand however, and you own breasts yourself, I do value your opinion. I can see how it may be simply over optimistic to expect boobs to keep their shape late into a woman's life even with an ideal lifestyle. It's an imperfect universe. But consider that another reason breasts sag is over-weight, where the connective tissue has to deal with the weight of extra fat in the breasts. In this case fitness definitely would help maintain breast shape. In particular there are definitely many overweight teenagers.

Well histologists probably dont give a shit about what healthy lifestyle is because they are studying the anatomy of tissues not physiology first of all and that is what we are talking about, anatomy. The structure of cells and how they cope with the pressure of weight. Ummmm so as I said originally weight will cause sagging, so you are correct here. But girls with naturally large breasts are not necessarily fat or unhealthy... so what are they supposed to do? I work with a girl who is stick thin, eats only organic fresh food (doesnt even chew gum because it has artificial sweetner in it), doesnt drink, smoke or do drugs and she still has sagging breasts. Your argument only works for fat people. We are on a stripper website. Im pretty confident most of us are not fat. Im also confident that every single scientist and doctor will say the number one cause of sagging skin is the effect of ageing on connective tissue and dermal elasticity. Most of us strippers spend a significant time each week without a bra on due to our job. If you have ever read body business you would see most of us are also health conscious.

Seriously I cannot believe you even have the balls to argue this... so are you saying if you stay fit your ball sack is not going to sag in another 10yrs? What about another 15? Let me put this in non-scientific terms...its called gravity dude.

CherryBomb954
03-29-2011, 03:56 AM
In the part of CB's post I was responding to, she wasn't only talking about herself but women in general: "And forget Victoria's Secret....one thing every woman should be able to enjoy at least once in her life." Meaning women should all be having surgical implants just to keep VS in business.?".

Ok, you took this WAY too literally. I was just using VS as an example, really, cause almost everyone knows what it is. I in no way meant it like literally VS. I guess it could have been misconstrued that way from how I worded it, so it's all good. Let me clarify:

There are certain "rites of passage" that are exclusive to each male and female that we relate to as we are growing up, especially in our formidable years (most of us the teens and for some of us, in to our early 20's)

Going and getting your first bra, or lingerie shopping, or just shopping for clothes, bathing suits, etc is one of those rites of passage that most (except for some I guess) is part of our coming in to our own and making that transition from girl to woman. I never got to enjoy that! I remember being in high school and going to malls with my friends and their mothers taking us bra shopping or maybe swimsuit shopping for the summer and whilst everyone else was having fun and buying all this cute stuff, I couldn't.

It's not as severe as you think, I don't think clothes define who I am and I don't rely on fitting into shit to complete my identity. It's just a part of the whole puzzle that makes me tick and it's enough to bother me so I am going to do something about it. Yes, I have self-esteem and self-worth issues that have NOTHING do do with clothing that go waaaaaay deeper and stem from my childhood and relationship with my father. Not clothing.

I'm not getting a BA cause I think it will make all this better. I'm getting a BA cause I CAN, and if I can fix something that bothers me, why not? If I could make all the other issues I have go away so simply I would, but they are gonna take years of therapy! My issues with my breasts are just that, issues with my breasts. It really doesn't go any deeper than that!

Jessie_tinydancer
03-29-2011, 04:03 AM
^ hahaha I know right? You do what makes you happy.

I had no insecurities. Just ask my husband he's always complaining because Im totally narcissistic. Why did I get boobs? Cause I wanted them... Just like I want a LV handbag, miniture pony and a man with a huge penis... I dont NEED these things, Im just greedy and they will put a smile on my face everyday.

I love my big ol boobies... I loved my small boobies. Besides VS bras dont fit my hooters... haha I prefer pleasure state, more elegant.

rickdugan
03-29-2011, 04:45 AM
If only you had it. That's what the "but" meant and I only said "perhaps". Also, I did not intend that to be direction for CB oabout her feelings in particular, I meant it as a comment about women in general. She merely supplied an instance of what I was talking about. The thread is not about her, so I assume she was talking about her own experience as an example of how she thinks all women are affected. I risked lecturing in order to make a reasonable point, which most people who responded, including you, seem to have missed. In the part of CB's post I was responding to, she wasn't only talking about herself but women in general: "And forget Victoria's Secret....one thing every woman should be able to enjoy at least once in her life." Meaning women should all be having surgical implants just to keep VS in business. Not that they only make bras. The general theme of what I was saying to them, and of their responses, was what men like as opposed to what women think men like, which is as much due to media images as it is to actual male preferences. That is in keeping with the thread topic, which is "Do guys like fake boobs?".

No hopper, both your point and your broader agenda were clearly evident in your post, at least once I parsed through your muddled writing style. I just disagreed with your theories.

First, I found your attempt to use CB as a proxy for all women to be faulty on its face. She is a unique individual with her own feelings and there are plenty of women out there who don't share her body image views. Also, if she could not even fit into a VS bra then her situation was somewhat extreme as a lot of that stuff is made for smaller gals. Fail 1.

Second, you are using comments posted in a fake boobs thread on a stripper website as the launching pad for your agenda. Seriously? Of course you will find more girls here that are hypersensitive to body image. How they look directly impacts their earnings, both from an optics standpoint and in their self confidence in the clubs. Perhaps you should go post that same nonsense on a nursing mothers board, or a career parents forum, and see just how silly your theories look in a broader context. Fail 2.

Hopper, you seem like the type of guy that develops broad, sweeping assumptions and then looks for something to support his theories, rather than collecting data to prove or disprove his hypothesis or even simply thinking calmly about how truly applicable his theories likely are in a broader context among an assortment of unique situations. IME, guys like you also tend to have some great conspiracy theories. ;)

Jessie_tinydancer
03-29-2011, 05:16 AM
Make up your mind. Is it "boobs = attention" or "boobs aren't everything"? I get the impression your friends are very average women if your boobs steal all the attention from them.



If your boobs are fake, the fact is you are not perfect, you just look like you are. I haven't seen your other posts on perfection but if by perfection you mean checking off a list of standards you must conform to, that doesn't sound fun and I don't see any life in it. The ideal can be quite boring. There is a difference with striving to be the best you can as you are and trying to conform to a standard of perfection.

I only just saw this gem now... I have made up my mind. Guys look at boobs therefore boobs = attention and yes they are not everything. One doesnt disqualify the other. If you read my post you would see my references to being a rounded human being. I did not say, "guys only like boobs". I said they are the first thing men see.

Oh and my friends are beautiful by the way, but that doesnt matter. How do you know Im not ugly and still manage to get attention. Helllloooo I went 28 years without boobs, Im now comparing current reactions with boobs to past reactions without boobs... but what would I know... I must be standing next to ugly people and used to be next to hot people::)

Again you obviously didnt read my post. By not being a dud human being. I meant being well-rounded is my search of perfection in all aspects of my life, I didnt say just in appearances. I mentioned being educated and fun ie. sense of humour. Nor did I mention how I define perfection. You have assumed Ive defined it by something you think I would when you dont know a thing about me. Id spell my definition out for you, but really it'd be a waste of time since you would just interpret some mindless fluff that you think drifts around in womens' brains because you cannot even imagine that we might have more going on up there than you.

You only hear/read what you want to hear dude. Im not sure if you are aware, but the tone of your post is very demeaning. I assure you I am not boring, nor do I conform to some cookie cutter. In fact I go against pretty much every single stereotype of a stripper, other than my physical appearance. While I can look like young Pam Anderson in about 2 hours. I go to my university everyday dresses in track pants, no makeup, hair in a ponytail, and glasses on.

And Im not perfect? What the hell? first you are trying to tell us we dont need boobs and now you are saying if we werent born with them, then we cant be perfect? Bud I am funny, mega-intelligent, educated, loving, extroverted, friendly, athletic, and beautiful and I just happen to have fake boobs... which guys LIKE.. I would know since Im the one carrying them around.

rickdugan
03-29-2011, 05:44 AM
Yes of course I have. I didn't say pregnancy had no effect, I just said that maintaining fitness is also a factor in preventing boobs sagging. That is made clear in the passage you quoted. Somehow you missed it.

Actually no I did not, I simply disagreed with the implications of your post. I have been with a number of girls, my wife included, who were in wonderful shape but who had sagging boobs post pregnancy. Fitness provides minimal, if any, mitigation to the effects of pregnancy on breasts IME.


I would hope that all men know a little about female anatomy. Apparently you do, because you are lecturing me. Initially I responded to a male poster so I was not lecturing women at all.

No, I am telling you specifically about the impacts of pregnancy that I have witnessed first-hand. I'll let the ladies address the other points, but I could not help but notice that you also bulldozed right through excellent points on the topic made by jessie and supa. Net-net, it is clear that you will continue to argue regardless of how misguided your views seem to be.


Is it okay if I say why? Make a little relevant social comment? Basically I was only expressing my concern about women being influenced to get BAs for wrong reasons. I was not telling them what they should do. You might even say it is they who are lecturing me about what I like.

So which is it - you are trying to share what you like or you are trying to use a boob job thread as a launching pad for your silly social theories? The former would be fine, but I think that your motive is the latter (which I addressed above).

guysmiley
03-29-2011, 12:40 PM
Guys it's the fake pussies you gotta watch out for. Don't get too tricky.

KS_Stevia
03-29-2011, 01:45 PM
Hopper's boob argument is just incorrect. I am no medical professional or student, but the truth remains, women grow up seeing lots of women's breasts. We see our family members, women in the locker rooms, our friends, etc. Those of us with some medical and health training have seen more.

Many of us here were also athletes, dancers, gymnasts, cheerleaders, etc. Finally, all of us have been or are strippers, and have had even more opportunities to see women's breasts in the bright lights, not the flattering stage lights.

We know these other women well, much of the time. They are our friends, coworkers, mothers, sisters. We know their lifestyle. So, I can say, with a greater certainty than most, that "health and fitness" are really a minority contributor when it comes to breast sixze and shape. Genetics are almost everyything, followed by aging and childbirth. Weight gain and weight loss aren't always due to lifestyle choices. How about puberty, pregnancy, and illness? Those are far more common.

So, let's just take a few fast real life examples. I have a friend, never was a stripper. She is gorgeous. Lovely skin, hair, face, etc. Eats lightly and works out regularly. Bad boobs, they never looked nice. I've known this girl since we were young teenagers, and saw them come in. They were just tubulular, fatty, and unfirm looking, despite the rest of her body having a firm and youthful look.

So she saved up and got boobs. She's been happier ever since and has never ventured onto a strip club stage.

Now, take me...don't live a great or healthy lifestyle at all. But in my mid 30s, large and perky boobs. Same with all the females in my family. None of us are models for health, we are just genetically blessed to have firm boobs til menopause, even after childbirth...even with cellulite around the rear.

Hoppe, you're placing way too much emphasis on a woman being able to control what happens with her breasts when in fact she has little control. They aren't muscles on the bicep, its a totally different thing. Where are you getting your data from anyway?

anacol
03-29-2011, 09:29 PM
Such as?

There's the entire body of a woman that men know nothing abt, including u trying to justify your point on here to being what exactly?! So I'm not abt to sit and make a list for u because I don't do that. I let people talk who want to, but not to me. They can talk to themselves or a wall!! Have a good one.

Hopper
03-30-2011, 01:23 AM
Well histologists probably dont give a shit about what healthy lifestyle is because they are studying the anatomy of tissues not physiology first of all and that is what we are talking about, anatomy. The structure of cells and how they cope with the pressure of weight.

And they are sure that is nothing to do with health of the tissue?


Ummmm so as I said originally weight will cause sagging, so you are correct here. But girls with naturally large breasts are not necessarily fat or unhealthy... so what are they supposed to do? I work with a girl who is stick thin, eats only organic fresh food (doesnt even chew gum because it has artificial sweetner in it), doesnt drink, smoke or do drugs and she still has sagging breasts. Your argument only works for fat people. We are on a stripper website. Im pretty confident most of us are not fat.

That time I was only talking about fat women. Maybe not many strippers at this site are fat but many strippers I see in clubs are fat. I guess any stripper keen enough to join the site also makes time for gym, if they need it.


Im also confident that every single scientist and doctor will say the number one cause of sagging skin is the effect of ageing on connective tissue and dermal elasticity. Most of us strippers spend a significant time each week without a bra on due to our job. If you have ever read body business you would see most of us are also health conscious.

So it is not just gravity or genes, it is aging. Is aging not affected by standard of health?


Seriously I cannot believe you even have the balls to argue this... so are you saying if you stay fit your ball sack is not going to sag in another 10yrs? What about another 15? Let me put this in non-scientific terms...its called gravity dude.

I'll keep you posted. I'm not arguing anything with you, just discussing. Since I'm not a doctor, I don't know first hand or from my education what you do, so I am forced to ask. Or I could just nod my head like a sideshow clown and take your word for everything - maybe write it down word for word.

Maybe I did not make it clear buy I am not trying to say that health is a main cause of sagging boobs. I didn't set out to argue at all about this. I made a comment about sagging boobs and health in a response to another customer who said BAs are the way to fight it and next thing I know dancers here are taking it as if I think that is the only factor.

What I do think is that any woman who cares that much about her boobs sagging that she would pay to get BAs should probably do the best she can by natural means such as maintaining health. Okay so it won't work for all women and it may not keep them from sagging forever, but it is a good first line of defense. What I'm wondering (not arguing) now is whether cells and cell tissue can maintain their structural integrity against gravity and whether this depends on fitness (due to diet, exercise, sunlight and all other factors).

You don't have to answer though. You might have to go into too much technical detail. I just want to make myself clear.

Hopper
03-30-2011, 01:55 AM
No hopper, both your point and your broader agenda were clearly evident in your post, at least once I parsed through your muddled writing style. I just disagreed with your theories.

It's called English - I don't speak "text". I don't have an agenda. Perhaps you mean my POV or opinion.

I think the dancers are able to fight their own battles (if this really were a battle) and they can speak for themselves.


First, I found your attempt to use CB as a proxy for all women to be faulty on its face. She is a unique individual with her own feelings and there are plenty of women out there who don't share her body image views. Also, if she could not even fit into a VS bra then her situation was somewhat extreme as a lot of that stuff is made for smaller gals. Fail 1.

You "found" that? What, as head of a committee? At least I'm not dictating my views to others. You OTOH waltzed in here telling me what my motives are and "failing" me.

I wasn't using CB as a proxy for all women but it is obvious that many women have similar motives to hers for getting BAs. Yes CB is a unique individual but I'm sure that being the same species as other women and sharing the same society and culture with them she has much in common with them also. Yes she is an extreme case regarding boob size but as I said I don't think even that should necessarily be grounds for surgery. The fact that she is an extreme case just means that what I am saying to her applies even more to most other women, who have bigger boobs and less need for BAs.


Second, you are using comments posted in a fake boobs thread on a stripper website as the launching pad for your agenda. Seriously? Of course you will find more girls here that are hypersensitive to body image. How they look directly impacts their earnings, both from an optics standpoint and in their self confidence in the clubs. Perhaps you should go post that same nonsense on a nursing mothers board, or a career parents forum, and see just how silly your theories look in a broader context. Fail 2.

So tell me about my agenda again?

I'm not just talking about girls at this site. I see girls everywhere going for BAs. And no strippers are not all necessarily "hyper-sensitive" about their appearance just because their income depends on it. I'm sure many strippers have a realistic and healthy notion of what beauty and attractiveness are. And I am not talking about being "hyper-sensitive", I am talking about having an unrealistic perception of what is required for women to be attractive.

And you know a lot of women who have never been pregnant get BAs, right?


Hopper, you seem like the type of guy that develops broad, sweeping assumptions and then looks for something to support his theories, rather than collecting data to prove or disprove his hypothesis or even simply thinking calmly about how truly applicable his theories likely are in a broader context among an assortment of unique situations. IME, guys like you also tend to have some great conspiracy theories. ;)

No, I generalize for the sake of simplicity, knowing that intelligent readers will interpret my meaning from the context of my comments. It saves a lot of tedious qualifying and addressing of all possible cases.

Do you have any data to support your theories about me? You're not just making sweeping assumptions are you? Hey, why not just ask ME?

Jessie_tinydancer
03-30-2011, 02:08 AM
^Im not asking you to nod your head, just filling you in on the scientific information I know. The short answer... is no. Connective tissue over time will always loose elasticity against gravity. Hence why all old people one day have sagging balls, boobs and faces. And why genetics is then tied to ageing. Being healthy (eating right, exercise, avoiding sun) will effect the overall health of your cells but again genetics determines things like what type of cells you have in which amounts. For example the number of adipose cells (fat you have) is actually determined as an infant. It will not change, unless you get lipo. Some people just naturally have more or less elastin fibres in their connective tissue. Diet and exercise cannot change this, its genetic. Your actual DNA strands script for what proteins (ie. collagen) are made and thats determined by your parents DNA. Exercise will only effect skeletal muscle fibres... I could go on and on but seriously its like a 4yr degree. And all histologists do btw is look at cells and determine what has changed and if they are normal or abnormal, they have no concern about what brought them to that state or how to get them back. Thats a doctors concern.

Ill admit maybe we put more focus on your comment then you probably intended. And personally I have no idea what it would feel like to have saggy breasts cause I have had perky breasts my whole life. I do have a saggy ass though and I can promise you I do more squats and lunges than anyone I know haha.

I think we can all agree that a BA is not going to solve all your problems, but it does solve the problem of small or sagging breasts if a girl feels that is a problem for her. It is her body and it is up to her what she does with it. In my experience having implants has doubled my income and the attention I get from men. I didnt need them, but I choose to get them because life is short and I wanted them. My husband didnt want me to get them and he loves them now, but at the end of the day I didnt care whether he liked them or not because he loves me. Wether Im an A cup or DD cup he will still love me the same. One day I imagine Ill have them taken out and imagine the sagging then! Dont assume that just because women get BAs they are shallow or insecure. And I think the main theme is this thread from the ladies is girls need to do what will make them happy. If a guy doesnt like you just because you have implants, he's probably not the type of guy you wanna know anyway. At least I wouldnt.

Hopper
03-30-2011, 02:12 AM
Actually no I did not, I simply disagreed with the implications of your post. I have been with a number of girls, my wife included, who were in wonderful shape but who had sagging boobs post pregnancy. Fitness provides minimal, if any, mitigation to the effects of pregnancy on breasts IME.

Many girls who have never been pregnant are getting BAs.


No, I am telling you specifically about the impacts of pregnancy that I have witnessed first-hand. I'll let the ladies address the other points, but I could not help but notice that you also bulldozed right through excellent points on the topic made by jessie and supa. Net-net, it is clear that you will continue to argue regardless of how misguided your views seem to be.

I didn't dismiss dismiss JTD's and SB's comments, I was merely querying and challenging them and clarifying my own.


So which is it - you are trying to share what you like or you are trying to use a boob job thread as a launching pad for your silly social theories? The former would be fine, but I think that your motive is the latter (which I addressed above).

What social theories? Despite having accused me of that three or four times now, you still haven't said what they are.

Hopper
03-30-2011, 02:22 AM
Ok, you took this WAY too literally. I was just using VS as an example, really, cause almost everyone knows what it is. I in no way meant it like literally VS. I guess it could have been misconstrued that way from how I worded it, so it's all good. Let me clarify:

There are certain "rites of passage" that are exclusive to each male and female that we relate to as we are growing up, especially in our formidable years (most of us the teens and for some of us, in to our early 20's)

Going and getting your first bra, or lingerie shopping, or just shopping for clothes, bathing suits, etc is one of those rites of passage that most (except for some I guess) is part of our coming in to our own and making that transition from girl to woman. I never got to enjoy that! I remember being in high school and going to malls with my friends and their mothers taking us bra shopping or maybe swimsuit shopping for the summer and whilst everyone else was having fun and buying all this cute stuff, I couldn't.

I know you weren't just talking about VS bras. I have men many gorgeous women with almost non-existent boobs. But I know how girls "without" boobs must feel. I'm just saying they can still be very attractive.


It's not as severe as you think, I don't think clothes define who I am and I don't rely on fitting into shit to complete my identity. It's just a part of the whole puzzle that makes me tick and it's enough to bother me so I am going to do something about it. Yes, I have self-esteem and self-worth issues that have NOTHING do do with clothing that go waaaaaay deeper and stem from my childhood and relationship with my father. Not clothing.

I'm not getting a BA cause I think it will make all this better. I'm getting a BA cause I CAN, and if I can fix something that bothers me, why not? If I could make all the other issues I have go away so simply I would, but they are gonna take years of therapy! My issues with my breasts are just that, issues with my breasts. It really doesn't go any deeper than that!

I don't want you to discuss your personal life with me but I was not saying that your "self-esteem" issues come from your clothes or your boobs. If you do have self-esteem issues that come from something else (your childhood), then they are probably "part of the puzzle that makes you tick" and perhaps the therapy should come before the BAs. I'm not trying to tell you they are though. I'm just pointing out an apparent inconsistency in your logic. Beyond that it's none of my business.

Hopper
03-30-2011, 02:35 AM
I only just saw this gem now... I have made up my mind. Guys look at boobs therefore boobs = attention and yes they are not everything. One doesnt disqualify the other. If you read my post you would see my references to being a rounded human being. I did not say, "guys only like boobs". I said they are the first thing men see.

In the post you responded to when you wrote that, I was saying other qualities can attract attention besides boobs and your answer was "boobs = attention". Therefore it seemed like you were dismissing the other qualities I was referring to as less important.


Oh and my friends are beautiful by the way, but that doesnt matter. How do you know Im not ugly and still manage to get attention. Helllloooo I went 28 years without boobs, Im now comparing current reactions with boobs to past reactions without boobs... but what would I know... I must be standing next to ugly people and used to be next to hot people

I never really doubted your friends are good looking. But your comment about how you steal all the attention because of your BAs implies that either boobs are everything or that your friends have nothing.


Again you obviously didnt read my post. By not being a dud human being. I meant being well-rounded is my search of perfection in all aspects of my life, I didnt say just in appearances. I mentioned being educated and fun ie. sense of humour. Nor did I mention how I define perfection. You have assumed Ive defined it by something you think I would when you dont know a thing about me. Id spell my definition out for you, but really it'd be a waste of time since you would just interpret some mindless fluff that you think drifts around in womens' brains because you cannot even imagine that we might have more going on up there than you.

I understood that you were including other attributes than physical ones but nonetheless you do want physical perfection and it is physical attributes that we are discussing here. What is physical perfection to you? Apparently it means changing what you were born with to conform to some other kind of standard (yours or others), at least in the case of boobs. True I don't know what your definition is; I'm just going on what you have told me.

There is mindless fluff drifting about in a lot of women's brains and men's brains too. It's a big problem.


You only hear/read what you want to hear dude. Im not sure if you are aware, but the tone of your post is very demeaning. I assure you I am not boring, nor do I conform to some cookie cutter. In fact I go against pretty much every single stereotype of a stripper, other than my physical appearance. While I can look like young Pam Anderson in about 2 hours. I go to my university everyday dresses in track pants, no makeup, hair in a ponytail, and glasses on.

I didn't mean that YOU are boring, I meant that striving for some ideal of physical perfection (with or without the other qualities) can lead to blandness. I don't know what your idea of physical ideal is, so I can't comment on that specifically. But generally I find the Playboy/fashion magazine style pursuit of "beauty" to be superficial and false. In my experience, women with all the other non-physical qualities you have also been improving don't need physical perfection. However, I do think it is always good for a woman to do the best she can with what she has physically.


And Im not perfect? What the hell? first you are trying to tell us we dont need boobs and now you are saying if we werent born with them, then we cant be perfect? Bud I am funny, mega-intelligent, educated, loving, extroverted, friendly, athletic, and beautiful and I just happen to have fake boobs... which guys LIKE.. I would know since Im the one carrying them around.

No, I didn't mean that you are imperfect for being "born" with small boob genes. I meant that if your idea of perfection requires the size of boobs you have now after getting BAs, then you are not really "physically perfect". I don't mean this as a put-down - if you are happy with your BAs, good. I don't really think you are imperfect, either pre or post BAs.

Hopper
03-30-2011, 02:39 AM
Hopper's boob argument is just incorrect. I am no medical professional or student, but the truth remains, women grow up seeing lots of women's breasts. We see our family members, women in the locker rooms, our friends, etc. Those of us with some medical and health training have seen more.

Many of us here were also athletes, dancers, gymnasts, cheerleaders, etc. Finally, all of us have been or are strippers, and have had even more opportunities to see women's breasts in the bright lights, not the flattering stage lights.

We know these other women well, much of the time. They are our friends, coworkers, mothers, sisters. We know their lifestyle. So, I can say, with a greater certainty than most, that "health and fitness" are really a minority contributor when it comes to breast sixze and shape. Genetics are almost everyything, followed by aging and childbirth. Weight gain and weight loss aren't always due to lifestyle choices. How about puberty, pregnancy, and illness? Those are far more common.

So, let's just take a few fast real life examples. I have a friend, never was a stripper. She is gorgeous. Lovely skin, hair, face, etc. Eats lightly and works out regularly. Bad boobs, they never looked nice. I've known this girl since we were young teenagers, and saw them come in. They were just tubulular, fatty, and unfirm looking, despite the rest of her body having a firm and youthful look.

So she saved up and got boobs. She's been happier ever since and has never ventured onto a strip club stage.

Now, take me...don't live a great or healthy lifestyle at all. But in my mid 30s, large and perky boobs. Same with all the females in my family. None of us are models for health, we are just genetically blessed to have firm boobs til menopause, even after childbirth...even with cellulite around the rear.

Hoppe, you're placing way too much emphasis on a woman being able to control what happens with her breasts when in fact she has little control. They aren't muscles on the bicep, its a totally different thing. Where are you getting your data from anyway?

Thanks for clearing that up but (1) I still believe that good health is the best first line of defense, especially since in many cases it might help; and (2) I didn't mean to place too much emphasis on health, I was just responding to a person who apparently was dismissing it altogether.

Hopper
03-30-2011, 02:43 AM
There's the entire body of a woman that men know nothing abt, including u trying to justify your point on here to being what exactly?! So I'm not abt to sit and make a list for u because I don't do that. I let people talk who want to, but not to me. They can talk to themselves or a wall!! Have a good one.

I could make it easy for you and ask for just one example. I've already made my point clear enough. If you don't talk to other people, why are you here?

rickdugan
03-30-2011, 07:39 AM
Our hero's first ill advised comment (which, dear readers, had to be reconstructed as the original comment was deleted in a revisionist history attempt)


Or it means she didn't look after her health and let her boobs go...

Some initial responses from the girls that have these breasts


There isn't a damn thing one can do about natural breasts falling and losing fullness over time. Unless the woman is 19 and never gained/lost weight or been pregnant, her natural breasts are going to lose fullness and sag a bit, not matter what she does.


Sorry dude but the sag of your breasts has to do with the level of elasticity of your connective tissue and skin. Yes you can work the pec muscle but that is underneath the breast, but the actual breast is fat and connective tissue. That is genetic.

Undeterred, our hero plows ahead.


I realize those effects play a part over time, though some women manage to avoid even those…But natural decay can also be fought by maintaining health and fitness, which is the best way. The rate at which boobs lose their shape depends on the woman's attention to maintaining her body, not just the less avoidable effects of time or pregnancy.

My own input relating to pregnancy (which I am coming to regret, not for the accuracy but rather for the pointlessness of trying to have a coherent back and forth with our hero).


Have you been with a pregnant woman? Dated any single mothers and seen the "before" and "after" breasts? The effects of pregnancy alone are enormous and can significantly change breast size and direction, even with mothers that do not nurse after the baby is born.

A directional shift begins, or what our hero terms as a "clarification."


I didn't say pregnancy had no effect, I just said that maintaining fitness is also a factor in preventing boobs sagging.

Yet more input from another owner of the breasts that our hero knows so much about


Hopper's boob argument is just incorrect. I am no medical professional or student, but the truth remains, women grow up seeing lots of women's breasts.

Our hero provides further "clarification" to his position which, while seeming to be contradictory to his earlier statements, no doubt makes sense to him. ;)


Thanks for clearing that up but (1) I still believe that good health is the best first line of defense, especially since in many cases it might help; and (2) I didn't mean to place too much emphasis on health, I was just responding to a person who apparently was dismissing it altogether.

kaiarose
03-30-2011, 10:28 AM
I have to say it's somewhat amusing (and annoying!) that every thread seems to turn into a goddamn debate!! I mean we don't need a whole textbook explanation on every fucking subject!!! Either you like fake tits or not. Yes or no!! IMO, most guys can't tell a good tit job from the real thing. Plus I see nothing wrong with making one's appearance better. So we want to fill out a goddamn bikini top or look good riding cowgirl on top of our men or *gasp* look good naked!!! It doesn't mean we're psychologically fucked in the head. Drop the debate!!!

CherryBomb954
03-30-2011, 05:41 PM
I'M DONE WITH THIS.

I no longer have the patience!!

It's been fun, good luck everyone "discussing" with Hopper, I'm spent.

Jessie_tinydancer
03-30-2011, 11:07 PM
Just sayin...

Hopper
03-31-2011, 05:59 AM
Our hero's first ill advised comment (which, dear readers, had to be reconstructed as the original comment was deleted in a revisionist history attempt)

Getting a bit worked up over this aren't we? Do you have to make a Perry Mason episode out of this? The bold type is very melodramatic.

JTD already conceded that you might all have overreacted to my "sagging boobs" comment. And I never deleted it - it is still there. It's also quoted by SupaByatch, so deleting it to cover up would be pointless. In case you want to make anything of the editing too, I did that soon after posting, five days before anyone (SB) commented on it (compare the dates). As I already explained, the context of that comment was that it a response to somebody claiming that BAs are the best remedy to the effects of nature.

BTW, aren't there any wars or political problems around the world you might be spending some of this time commenting on?


Some initial responses from the girls that have these breasts





Undeterred, our hero plows ahead.



My own input relating to pregnancy (which I am coming to regret, not for the accuracy but rather for the pointlessness of trying to have a coherent back and forth with our hero).


And you complain about my writing style. Give me some butter and salt for this corn.

Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I was not assuming poor health is the only factor in boobs sagging. I was wondering though how big a factor it might be. I also had in mind the younger women (in their late teens or 20s), since so many of them are now getting BAs. Older women have more of an excuse than they do.



A directional shift begins, or what our hero terms as a "clarification."



Yet more input from another owner of the breasts that our hero knows so much about



Our hero provides further "clarification" to his position which, while seeming to be contradictory to his earlier statements, no doubt makes sense to him. ;)

Take it easy. The rest of you, I didn't start a debate, I raised some points (I'm not saying all good ones) and you disagreed with them. Debate is welcome but if you don't want to debate, don't debate and don't don't blame me if it takes longer than you would like.

rickdugan
04-01-2011, 08:12 AM
Take it easy. The rest of you, I didn't start a debate, I raised some points (I'm not saying all good ones) and you disagreed with them. Debate is welcome but if you don't want to debate, don't debate and don't don't blame me if it takes longer than you would like.

Perhaps you need to look back and rethink who should have stopped debating and when. It took: (1) a thread derail; (2) several people taking issue with your comments, some of which might have been offensive to the ladies whose breasts you were so knowledgably discussing; and (3) 18 separate posts by you, many of them long and rambling, as you tried to defend and/or "clarify" your positions, before you finally conceded that some of your points might not have been good. :O

Now I don't want to tell you how to handle your business, but some posters might have realized the tenuousness of their positions far earlier in the process, perhaps even have made an admission of some type, and then faded out quietly. But you, sir, are clearly cut from a different cloth. ;)

Rookie2010
04-01-2011, 08:34 AM
Too much debate, not enough tits.
http://www.mattbrandenburg.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/tits-or-gtfo.jpg

SteveSmith
04-01-2011, 11:16 AM
Too much debate, not enough tits.


http://porn-img.com/pics/m1301349439-boob2.JPG

kaiarose
04-01-2011, 11:23 AM
^hahahaha!!! W.T.F.??!

Hopper
04-02-2011, 07:50 AM
Perhaps you need to look back and rethink who should have stopped debating and when. It took: (1) a thread derail; (2) several people taking issue with your comments, some of which might have been offensive to the ladies whose breasts you were so knowledgably discussing; and (3) 18 separate posts by you, many of them long and rambling, as you tried to defend and/or "clarify" your positions, before you finally conceded that some of your points might not have been good. :O

Thank God you arrived when you did to sort it out for us. I bet the thought of somebody arguing for two thread pages wakes you up in the middle of the night.

It's not hard to make 18 posts when several (about eight) people are taking issue. You posted six and you were only responding to one guy. (Managed to "ramble" quite a bit too.) So some of my 18 posts were made because you waltzed in here. I didn't ramble, you just can't read big paragraphs. They were shorter than those in some of the posts I responded to.


Now I don't want to tell you how to handle your business, but some posters might have realized the tenuousness of their positions far earlier in the process, perhaps even have made an admission of some type, and then faded out quietly. But you, sir, are clearly cut from a different cloth. ;)

Takes a while to collect my thoughts sometimes. Especially when I've got adversarial comments coming from eight people. Their posts weren't altogether well-reasoned either. I don't always have time to slow down and focus carefully on an internet forum thread about tits. It's not a capital crime and it's not the end of the world.

But why single me out? Have you noticed a certain dancer who jumps me in thread after thread calling me a woman hater, because she still hasn't gotten the tenuousness of her own notion that feminist /= woman? She could have "faded quietly" any time since about my fifth repeating of explaining why she is being unfair, intolerant and illogical. Instead, no matter how may ways I explain my position to her, she continues to attack at every opportunity. That's worse than anything I have done here and since nobody reprimands her for it I don't feel the least bit bad about what I have said in this thread.

Montrealais
04-08-2011, 04:50 PM
I'll just mention that my preference is for natural and otherwise duck and cover as this discussion rages. :)

UtahMike
04-11-2011, 11:49 PM
I like boobs that look real, whether they are real or not. If they look like a pair of softballs, I'm not interested. In a club, I usually go for the girls with smaller boobs. They are more likely to be real. Also, sorry, don't mean anybody here at all, but lots of dancers with big and huge boobs seem to think all they have to do is have big or huge boobs and show them off. Dancers with smaller boobs usually give better dances because they are are focusing on doing sexy things, sexy moves, acting and talking sexier.

Of course, this is a generalization, and all generalizations have exceptions. I have had some fantastic dances from girls with big boobs that were quite obviously fake.

lustforlife
04-11-2011, 11:56 PM
I prefer the ladies boobies full and round. Whether it took mother nature or Dr. X to do that, I don't care. Rather occupy myself worrying about more important things like rearranging my sock drawer.

kaiarose
04-12-2011, 05:09 AM
I like boobs that look real, whether they are real or not. If they look like a pair of softballs, I'm not interested. In a club, I usually go for the girls with smaller boobs. They are more likely to be real. Also, sorry, don't mean anybody here at all, but lots of dancers with big and huge boobs seem to think all they have to do is have big or huge boobs and show them off. Dancers with smaller boobs usually give better dances because they are are focusing on doing sexy things, sexy moves, acting and talking sexier.

Of course, this is a generalization, and all generalizations have exceptions. I have had some fantastic dances from girls with big boobs that were quite obviously fake.

I think I'm still going to have the mentality of a small breasted girl... I've worked as one for the past 8 years..lol

Montrealais
04-12-2011, 05:48 AM
I think I'm still going to have the mentality of a small breasted girl... I've worked as one for the past 8 years..lol

:)

Just don't fall so much in love with the new toys that you forget there's more to a girl than bewbies!