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KaylaM
09-20-2010, 06:22 AM
Strippers dating their customers is the same as an escort fucking her client for free. It's just a really dumb thing to do. That's why it doesn't happen often.

Kellydancer
09-20-2010, 01:44 PM
No, I said that previously I thought the opposite of that. I understood that you were talking about a guy you actually liked and that you didn't like him just because he spent a lot on you, but because the number of LDs he bought from you allowed you to get to know him over a period of time and find out that you are suited to one another.

All I meant by that comment was that getting as many LDs as I like will not turn a stripper off of dating me. I did not mean that I would get multiple LDs with her as a way to get a date with her. I get LDs because I like LDs, and only as many as I really want. (So far the maximum has been three.) I don't get LDs to try to get dates. That is asking for trouble, because strippers know guys do that and they use it to get more LDs. I can get dates the normal way, far more cheaply, without the games and with girls just as nice. If I want to date a stripper, all I have to do is ask.

I misunderstood, but many guys do think that. I wish I could tell guys how to know if a dancer really is interested but there's no sure thing. I know I've mentioned my situation because it's the exception but true. He never was my biggest customer but he was sweet. He would come in usually to get his feet fetish. So he'd pay me to massage my feet. He would get dances (they were no contact bikini air dances) but he was more into the feet. During this time we'd spend time talking and found out we were alike in almost everything. When I left the club he's the only customer I kept in touch with. In fact to this day outside of a few customers I still do parties for (not as much anymore) he's really the only one.

Kellydancer
09-20-2010, 01:53 PM
I always found it a lot easier to establish RL non-compensatory relationships with dancers to whom I was never (or barely) a customer. To the best of my recollection, just one or two girls I was ever a regular customer to were willing to interact outside the club before dances were essentially eliminated from our interactions, in other words until I stopped acting like a customer or as Hopper called it, the "mutual exploitation" ended.

This is actually wrong. I would never date a guy who didn't spend money. Like I stress my situation is much different and the exception. After we became off club friends I didn't charge him anything to massage my feet and it became more extreme (he would touch himself while sucking my feet). However this process took months.

yoda57us
09-20-2010, 03:30 PM
This is actually wrong. I would never date a guy who didn't spend money.

Agreed, though, to be fair to BEM, "RL non-compensatory relationships" do not necessarily fall into the category of "dating"

That being said Kelly, I agree with your POV as this has been my personal experience as well as the preference related to me by every dancer I have ever had the conversation with. I don't know many dancers that will give a guy the time of day if he isn't spending ITC. If a relationship ensues, not a casual friendship but and actual relationship, naturally the money train, and club visits, will stop. This, again, is the reason why many dancers won't go there at all. That being said, we are all human beings so I never say never.

Kellydancer
09-20-2010, 04:07 PM
Agreed, though, to be fair to BEM, "RL non-compensatory relationships" do not necessarily fall into the category of "dating"

That being said Kelly, I agree with your POV as this has been my personal experience as well as the preference related to me by every dancer I have ever had the conversation with. I don't know many dancers that will give a guy the time of day if he isn't spending ITC. If a relationship ensues, not a casual friendship but and actual relationship, naturally the money train, and club visits, will stop. This, again, is the reason why many dancers won't go there at all. That being said, we are all human beings so I never say never.

Very true. I would never spend time with a guy who didn't spend money so there would never be any relationship at all, whether friendship, relationship or anything else. I wouldn't allow myself to get to know a guy without money. In dead clubs I still wouldn't talk to cheap guys. In my case yes once I became friends with the guy all club visits and money related to dancing stopped, but this was when I quit the club so it had no effect either way. I kept it completely club related until I left the club then asked my roommate (who was still dancing there) to invite him over. After that any money he spent was because he wanted to and not related to dancing at all (things like going to the show and dinner and buying me presents). In the interim I moved back home so he came over to visit me at my parents house. Did I dance for him? Yes, and it was more of a mutual thing (and no, he didn't pay me). He also massaged my feet and didn't pay me but bought nail poilsh. I wouldn't expect him to pay at this point, nor would he. We've gone way below customer/stripper at this point. I'm hoping that we eventually go to bed together, but once again this would be because we were in love, certainly no money transaction.

I often wonder what I'd do if this situation had happened more than once and happened at a club I planned to stay at. I have no idea what I would have done. There have been times I left a club, told a guy I was leaving and he often asked me out, but nothing came of this. Many guys, some seemed decent, asked me out but I always made excuses. This is the one time I made an exception and only time will tell if it was a wise choice or stupid. Best case scenario, we marry and have a family. Worst case scenario we never speak again.

Hopper
09-21-2010, 03:26 AM
I would never date a guy who didn't spend money.



Kelly, I agree with your POV as this has been my personal experience as well as the preference related to me by every dancer I have ever had the conversation with. I don't know many dancers that will give a guy the time of day if he isn't spending ITC.

There is one stripper here who is engaged to a customer who didn't spend money on her and clearly did not wish to. It was part of why she was interested in him. But he was not there to be a cheap-ass time-waster either.

bem401
09-21-2010, 06:14 AM
Agreed, though, to be fair to BEM, "RL non-compensatory relationships" do not necessarily fall into the category of "dating"

Never said they did, but "dating" definitely falls into the larger classification of "RL non-compensatory relationships". I've "dated" a dancer or two and had casual RL friendships with several others over the years and it always seemed easier for the dancers who didn't feel they were risking potential earnings to do it.


That being said Kelly, I agree with your POV as this has been my personal experience as well as the preference related to me by every dancer I have ever had the conversation with. I don't know many dancers that will give a guy the time of day if he isn't spending ITC. If a relationship ensues, not a casual friendship but and actual relationship, naturally the money train, and club visits, will stop. This, again, is the reason why many dancers won't go there at all. That being said, we are all human beings so I never say never.

No real argument here with any of what you say. The girls are there to make money, bottom line. They have very little use for customers who are not spending money on them.

yoda57us
09-21-2010, 09:21 AM
Never said they did, but "dating" definitely falls into the larger classification of "RL non-compensatory relationships". I've "dated" a dancer or two and had casual RL friendships with several others over the years and it always seemed easier for the dancers who didn't feel they were risking potential earnings to do it.

My experiences have been different than yours. Being a customer does not mean you can't have lunch with a dancer. If that's an issue for you or your friends then I guess that's something for you and them to work out. I have had no such issues.
As far as any serious dating goes, naturally the ITC visits and spending need to stop if and when that happens. One of the cool things about dancers is that it's pretty easy to figure out where you stand with them in situations like this. If the guy's cash inside the club is her primary concern it's pretty clear that he is firmly in the "customer" zone and nothing further will be likely to develop.

yoda57us
09-21-2010, 09:27 AM
There is one stripper here who is engaged to a customer who didn't spend money on her and clearly did not wish to. It was part of why she was interested in him. But he was not there to be a cheap-ass time-waster either.

Sure, it happens. My retired ATF met her husband at her club six or seven years ago. He was never a customer, never spent a dime on her. As I said above, never say never....

KS_Stevia
09-21-2010, 10:02 AM
I've never hung out with a customer OTC that didn't spend money on me. Never. Even the drug dealer I dated shortly spent monies on me ITC before we became friends and lovers.

No exceptions. Even one of my current "go to" fuck buddies spent money on me at the club when I met him and his friends, who I became friends with and sometimes see to this day.

I just fundamentally dislike men who go to strip clubs and never get dances. So why would I date them, or even be their friend?

Kellydancer
09-21-2010, 10:58 AM
Sure, it happens. My retired ATF met her husband at her club six or seven years ago. He was never a customer, never spent a dime on her. As I said above, never say never....

That's very rare. Anything can happen but I've personally never heard of it.



I've never hung out with a customer OTC that didn't spend money on me. Never. Even the drug dealer I dated shortly spent monies on me ITC before we became friends and lovers.

No exceptions. Even one of my current "go to" fuck buddies spent money on me at the club when I met him and his friends, who I became friends with and sometimes see to this day.

I just fundamentally dislike men who go to strip clubs and never get dances. So why would I date them, or even be their friend?

I hate those guys. It does remind me of a guy who asked me out one time when he walked in the door. Said he was looking for a girlfriend and I looked too clean to work there. I told him I'd have to get to know him first (this is true of any relationship) then he said I was a 'typical stripper" after all. Need I mention this guy walked out after asking several girls for dates but not spending money?

KS_Stevia
09-21-2010, 11:27 AM
I hate those guys. It does remind me of a guy who asked me out one time when he walked in the door. Said he was looking for a girlfriend and I looked too clean to work there. I told him I'd have to get to know him first (this is true of any relationship) then he said I was a 'typical stripper" after all. Need I mention this guy walked out after asking several girls for dates but not spending money?

I've met literally dozens of those guys. There was one cute guy that I actually know from a different scene in my town. He was quite attractive but completely inept. He came in a few times a week, would ask the waitress to bring over girls he saw from afar.

Now, we strippers all know, that when a custy requests you, it usually means he is floored by you and wants dances. Nope, not this clever cat. He did just about the same thing, said he was looking for a girl to date, and was I interested? This was the opener. I guess then he would offer me a drink if I wanted to date him.

I laughed so hard, he could hear me laugh as I walked away. If I saw him in again and a girl I liked was about to approach him, I would warn her. Every time I saw him socially after that, I would just laugh at him...but quietly, as I didn't care to broadcast my stripperness.

Are these guys fucking for real?

Kellydancer
09-21-2010, 12:01 PM
Unfortunately there are many of these guys around. I suspect most are socially insecure. Either that or think they deserve a hot dancer (and most I've seen weren't hot guys). That's why I laugh when I hear of a guy trying to woo a dancer by not tipping her.

unbeleavable
09-21-2010, 04:53 PM
I would never go into a club looking to hook up, always went in to have a good time. My ex wife of 10 years works at the cheetah here in Atl & has been working there longer than we were married. I have had some girlfriends since that work in clubs and meet them all there. I was never a regular; I would go in every so often when I sold a home & had a good check. I think if you stand out from the rest of the guys you will get attention. When I talk to them I wasn't running a game on them, just talking like I would any other girl. I have been told that they were glad they met me there because they didn't have to lie about where they worked. I have always been attracted to entertainers; most are very smart if you get to see that side.

yoda57us
09-21-2010, 07:38 PM
That's very rare. Anything can happen but I've personally never heard of it.


I agree, very rare but it was a unique set of circumstances.

ilbbaicnl
09-21-2010, 08:50 PM
There is one stripper here who is engaged to a customer who didn't spend money on her and clearly did not wish to. It was part of why she was interested in him. But he was not there to be a cheap-ass time-waster either.

Hmmm can you elaborate on this? Sounds like the fact that a custy was more horny for other dancers made a dancer horny for him? I think I must be getting the wrong idea.

ilbbaicnl
09-21-2010, 08:58 PM
I've never hung out with a customer OTC that didn't spend money on me. Never. Even the drug dealer I dated shortly spent monies on me ITC before we became friends and lovers.

No exceptions. Even one of my current "go to" fuck buddies spent money on me at the club when I met him and his friends, who I became friends with and sometimes see to this day.

I just fundamentally dislike men who go to strip clubs and never get dances. So why would I date them, or even be their friend?

Have any dancers come across customers who thought the dancers got paid a base salary to be there? (I've been told that in Vegas at least in some clubs the dancers do get paid to work day or graveyard shift.) Do some customers think dancing is worthwhile just for stage tips?

ilbbaicnl
09-21-2010, 09:08 PM
That's very rare. Anything can happen but I've personally never heard of it.




I hate those guys. It does remind me of a guy who asked me out one time when he walked in the door. Said he was looking for a girlfriend and I looked too clean to work there. I told him I'd have to get to know him first (this is true of any relationship) then he said I was a 'typical stripper" after all. Need I mention this guy walked out after asking several girls for dates but not spending money?

If someone is a submissive I think that's exactly what they seek, a lover who always acts like they're doing them a favor to treat them like dirt.

ilbbaicnl
09-21-2010, 09:13 PM
I would never go into a club looking to hook up, always went in to have a good time. My ex wife of 10 years works at the cheetah here in Atl & has been working there longer than we were married. I have had some girlfriends since that work in clubs and meet them all there. I was never a regular; I would go in every so often when I sold a home & had a good check. I think if you stand out from the rest of the guys you will get attention. When I talk to them I wasn't running a game on them, just talking like I would any other girl. I have been told that they were glad they met me there because they didn't have to lie about where they worked. I have always been attracted to entertainers; most are very smart if you get to see that side.

Seems like guys in sales tend to click with dancers more than other guys, which is only natural when you think about it.

Hopper
09-22-2010, 12:09 AM
Hmmm can you elaborate on this? Sounds like the fact that a custy was more horny for other dancers made a dancer horny for him? I think I must be getting the wrong idea.

If I remember right, he said here that he was at the SC with friends and didn't actually want to be there and didn't want a lapdance. The stripper found him attractive and found his aversion to the SC scene was endearing. I don't recall if he ended up buying a LD from her that night but he apparently likes SCs now (because he visits them with her apparently). So he was not exactly a customer when they met and therefore this is not a situation which could apply to SC customers. But it's an example of where a stripper liked a guy in in the club who was not there to spend. Maybe PUAs could feign this as a strategy.

Any guy who feels he needs to go to SCs to pick up hot girls probably isn't going to get any. They must be working on the notion that strippers are easier or more promiscuous than other girls.

bem401
09-22-2010, 06:25 AM
My experiences have been different than yours. Being a customer does not mean you can't have lunch with a dancer. If that's an issue for you or your friends then I guess that's something for you and them to work out. I have had no such issues.

I never said this either. I merely stated IMO that dancers are less likely to consider it if they felt they were risking a source of income by doing so. IMO, that income stream is probably placed at greater risk as well if they agree to outside contact with a local single guy than a married one from 50 miles away. At the time I experienced this, I was a main source of income to the two girls of whom I'm thinking, both of whom you'd know. In retrospect, they were clearly just dangling a carrot in front of a newcomer and were clearly adherents to the policy of not interacting with customers away from work, a policy with which many girls on this board agree.


As far as any serious dating goes, naturally the ITC visits and spending need to stop if and when that happens. One of the cool things about dancers is that it's pretty easy to figure out where you stand with them in situations like this. If the guy's cash inside the club is her primary concern it's pretty clear that he is firmly in the "customer" zone and nothing further will be likely to develop.

No argument here other than to say the same could apply as well in cases of genuine RL friendships depending on the parties involved when the RL friendship is more valuable than the club one.

yoda57us
09-22-2010, 07:57 AM
I never said this either.

BEM, I never said that you said anything. I read your post and responded with an opinion that happens to come from a different set of experiences. I would expect you and the ladies that you are friendly with to carry on in whatever way suits all parties concerned. By the way, the fact that I may know (barely) some dancer that you went out with continues to be irrelevant to the topic at hand as it always has been...even though you insist on bringing it up every time I disagree with you. The relatively small amount of time I happen to have spent in the distant past with a dancer or two that you know doesn't really enter in to my point of view about these things. I have my own frame of reference to draw from.

Kellydancer
09-22-2010, 02:04 PM
This is turning into yet another thread where Bem defends not spending money on dancers because they are "his friends" and "friends don't expect money". Like mentioned by others, 99% of dancers would NEVER date a guy who didn't spend money on them. This has nothing to do with gold diggers. I am as anti materialistic as a stripper can get and I'd never date a guy who never spent money. It has to do with the fact that men in general will spend money on a girl they like. When a guy doesn't spend money on me it says he's cheap or doesn't like me. It could also be he expects me to support him (yes briefly dated one of these). Even platonic guy friends have spent money on me. In every case where a guy didn't spend money on me on a first date he never got a second date. Just for the record I am NOT someone who feels a guy should even always pay on a first date unless he asks me out.

This is why I am very reluctant to believe Bem in most of these cases. Yoda mentioned a case where this did happen and yes it does happen, but it's not common. In the case I mentioned (the guy I became friends with otc) he liked to pay a lot, though I'm sure I also paid at times. However, this is an exception and no if he had never paid in the club I'd never talk to him. I've been asked out by MANY customers and rarely have I told them I would.

Oh and this has been mentioned many times but I don't consider someone I only talk to in the club as a friend. I didn't even think of customers as friends. I'd certainly never consider non paying customers as anything but parasites.

bumrubber
09-22-2010, 07:26 PM
I always found it a lot easier to establish RL non-compensatory relationships with dancers to whom I was never (or barely) a customer. To the best of my recollection, just one or two girls I was ever a regular customer to were willing to interact outside the club before dances were essentially eliminated from our interactions, in other words until I stopped acting like a customer or as Hopper called it, the "mutual exploitation" ended.

+1.

In recent years I've dated 2 dancers.

The first one I never got a dance with. We talked for a really long time at the club, then she invited me out for drinks with her friends. We had a few dates after that in a normal guy/girl way. I don't think I went back to the club for awhile after that, and I never saw her there again.

The second one I had one dance with, which was rather chaste with her acting kind of silly. We had a great time sharing some laughs. I ran into her at the gym later and started seeing her. I never went back to her club after that first time. Again, a pretty normal relationship.

In both cases I could sorta tell that they liked me for real while in the club. I've never experienced that beyond these 2 women, and I've been up close and personal with a lot of dancers.

Hopper
09-22-2010, 09:24 PM
Like mentioned by others, 99% of dancers would NEVER date a guy who didn't spend money on them. This has nothing to do with gold diggers. I am as anti materialistic as a stripper can get and I'd never date a guy who never spent money. It has to do with the fact that men in general will spend money on a girl they like. When a guy doesn't spend money on me it says he's cheap or doesn't like me.

It doesn't necessarily follow that a guy who likes a stripper will buy LDs from her. This is a different situation than a date. On a date a guy will spend money on a girl he likes. In a SC he would of course want to buy LDs from her if he likes her, but he may at the same time not wish to because (1) paying her for a LD might put her off of considering him as a potential romantic interest and (2) he feels he is "paying for it" instead of getting it outside the club because the girl likes him, which is a bad feeling for a guy concerning a girl he likes.

A relatively new customer will not understand that strippers treat it as a job and don't necessarily treat LDs personally, although some actually do (as a few strippers on this site have said). His instinct is that if he pays the stripper, it is a signal to her that he has to pay her because he is not good enough for her to date him. He feels or suspects that strippers have contempt for the men who pay them to be watched or touched and resent them for doing so, even though they want their money. So he sees it as possibly an either-or decision - buy an LD or ask for her number and spend the money on a date with her instead.

This is similar to the pick-up artist strategy in SCs - don't ever be a stripper's customer - instead make her think you are too good to have to pay for it. (Faulty thinking, because what is a guy who can get any hot girl he wants IRL doing in an SC?)

Also, a date could cost a guy more than an LD in a SC, so asking for a date and not buying an LD does not mean he is cheap.

Kellydancer
09-22-2010, 10:47 PM
It doesn't necessarily follow that a guy who likes a stripper will buy LDs from her. This is a different situation than a date. On a date a guy will spend money on a girl he likes. In a SC he would of course want to buy LDs from her if he likes her, but he may at the same time not wish to because (1) paying her for a LD might put her off of considering him as a potential romantic interest and (2) he feels he is "paying for it" instead of getting it outside the club because the girl likes him, which is a bad feeling for a guy concerning a girl he likes.

A relatively new customer will not understand that strippers treat it as a job and don't necessarily treat LDs personally, although some actually do (as a few strippers on this site have said). His instinct is that if he pays the stripper, it is a signal to her that he has to pay her because he is not good enough for her to date him. He feels or suspects that strippers have contempt for the men who pay them to be watched or touched and resent them for doing so, even though they want their money. So he sees it as possibly an either-or decision - buy an LD or ask for her number and spend the money on a date with her instead.

This is similar to the pick-up artist strategy in SCs - don't ever be a stripper's customer - instead make her think you are too good to have to pay for it. (Faulty thinking, because what is a guy who can get any hot girl he wants IRL doing in an SC?)

Also, a date could cost a guy more than an LD in a SC, so asking for a date and not buying an LD does not mean he is cheap.

Good luck with that and see how far most of those guys goes. To most dancers, once a guy sets foot in a club he's a customer. If he sets foot and doesn't spend money, then he's a cheap customer. I would never even consider talking to a guy who didn't pay, so I definitely wouldn't date him. I don't care how hot he is.

unbeleavable
09-22-2010, 11:11 PM
I will say & add to this convercation that if you don't spend money you will not get attention..plain & simple...after very night with my girl I would ask how was your night..for a reason..because thats why she was there!!!!

Hopper
09-23-2010, 12:58 AM
Good luck with that and see how far most of those guys goes. To most dancers, once a guy sets foot in a club he's a customer.

If he sets foot and doesn't spend money, then he's a cheap customer. I would never even consider talking to a guy who didn't pay, so I definitely wouldn't date him. I don't care how hot he is.

He might not go for LDs - he might just be into the stage shows and be a tipper. Also, he might get LDs from girls he likes but hesitate on LDs with girls he really likes for the reasons I described. These fears might apply only to customers who are not familiar with SCs, though they may be justified with some strippers. Never stopped me though.

bem401
09-23-2010, 05:40 AM
BEM, I never said that you said anything. I read your post and responded with an opinion that happens to come from a different set of experiences. I would expect you and the ladies that you are friendly with to carry on in whatever way suits all parties concerned.

The implication seemed to be you were correcting something you thought I said. I never implied being a customer prevented someone from having lunch with a dancer, but it is just one more thing the dancer must weigh in deciding whether or not to have lunch with a customer.



By the way, the fact that I may know (barely) some dancer that you went out with continues to be irrelevant to the topic at hand as it always has been...even though you insist on bringing it up every time I disagree with you. The relatively small amount of time I happen to have spent in the distant past with a dancer or two that you know doesn't really enter in to my point of view about these things. I have my own frame of reference to draw from.

Again, I never said I went out with them. I said my being their customer was an obstacle (and maybe not the only one) in their eyes to spending time with me in a different environment.

And I don't bring the fact you may know them every time we disagree, which we do as often as not, but when I perceive your statements to be misrepresenting something I said involving common acquaintances of ours, I occasionally do.

bem401
09-23-2010, 06:42 AM
This is turning into yet another thread where Bem defends not spending money on dancers because they are "his friends" and "friends don't expect money". Like mentioned by others, 99% of dancers would NEVER date a guy who didn't spend money on them. This has nothing to do with gold diggers. I am as anti materialistic as a stripper can get and I'd never date a guy who never spent money. It has to do with the fact that men in general will spend money on a girl they like. When a guy doesn't spend money on me it says he's cheap or doesn't like me. It could also be he expects me to support him (yes briefly dated one of these). Even platonic guy friends have spent money on me. In every case where a guy didn't spend money on me on a first date he never got a second date. Just for the record I am NOT someone who feels a guy should even always pay on a first date unless he asks me out.

This is why I am very reluctant to believe Bem in most of these cases. Yoda mentioned a case where this did happen and yes it does happen, but it's not common. In the case I mentioned (the guy I became friends with otc) he liked to pay a lot, though I'm sure I also paid at times. However, this is an exception and no if he had never paid in the club I'd never talk to him. I've been asked out by MANY customers and rarely have I told them I would.

Oh and this has been mentioned many times but I don't consider someone I only talk to in the club as a friend. I didn't even think of customers as friends. I'd certainly never consider non paying customers as anything but parasites.

Believe me or disbelieve me, I never intended to find myself in the position in which I do. Years ago, I used to spend quite heavily in the club on certain girls. My preference was strictly Asian but many of their friends were not. I spent time at the bar with these friends if my fave wasn't available or wasn't working. They knew who I was there to see and were smart enough to realize I was not a potential customer. Hell, they'd even inform me when a new Asian girl was in the club. Over the years (yes, years) I became fairly friendly with them. When my time as a customer to the girls I was visiting ended, I was still friendly with them and their friends. I now found myself in a situation with a bunch of girls I was friendly with but not interested in dancing with and they were not interested in dancing with me. What would you have me do? BTW, I'm quite generous with my time and money with friends away from the club.

I never entered a club with the intention of seeking RL friendships and would never advise anyone to consider doing that. It would be idiotic. I now consider going in to kill an hour if my friends are on, I'm bored, and I think my friends might be bored. And I'm talking about some of the friends I've never been a customer to. They even text me to do just that on occasion so they clearly don't think of me as some sort of parasite. I haven't even been to my club of choice for a couple of months now despite being texted a couple of times to swing by. I've been to one club I generally never visit because one of the dancers I'm friends with in RL wanted me to accompany her there. My friends are all on the verge of retirement from the business and I spend significant time with some of them now away from the club so the frequency of my visits has declined. Once they leave for good, I think I'll find myself hard-pressed to find a reason to bother going in. I'm not interested in being a customer again nor am I interested in wasting anyone's time.

The reason I do what I presently do is because it is what presently works for my friends and I.

Hopper
09-23-2010, 07:03 AM
There should be a thread for this.

princessjas
09-23-2010, 07:37 AM
I've never hung out with a customer OTC that didn't spend money on me. Never. Even the drug dealer I dated shortly spent monies on me ITC before we became friends and lovers.

No exceptions. Even one of my current "go to" fuck buddies spent money on me at the club when I met him and his friends, who I became friends with and sometimes see to this day.

I just fundamentally dislike men who go to strip clubs and never get dances. So why would I date them, or even be their friend?

I also couldn't date a cheap ass. My current always mentions when he goes to the club and if he buys dances or just tips, and is now even more aware (even if it's just for lunch with his buddy) that he needs to go tip and always does so. I'm so glad that he is so full of awesome that he tips the girls that he doesn't even really watch.

Kellydancer
09-23-2010, 10:35 AM
He might not go for LDs - he might just be into the stage shows and be a tipper. Also, he might get LDs from girls he likes but hesitate on LDs with girls he really likes for the reasons I described. These fears might apply only to customers who are not familiar with SCs, though they may be justified with some strippers. Never stopped me though.

Guys who tip on stage are fine and that's not offensive either. I was thinking allong the lines of these guys who don't spend money on any dancer.

Casual Observer
09-23-2010, 04:08 PM
I've never hung out with a customer OTC that didn't spend money on me. Never. Even the drug dealer I dated shortly spent monies on me ITC before we became friends and lovers.

No exceptions. Even one of my current "go to" fuck buddies spent money on me at the club when I met him and his friends, who I became friends with and sometimes see to this day.

I just fundamentally dislike men who go to strip clubs and never get dances. So why would I date them, or even be their friend?

Indeed.

With one notable exception, every dancer with whom I've had an OTC arrangement, encounter or relationship knew me as a customer first. I've always thought the PUA notion of "don't spend money on her or she'll think you're a customer" was utterly retarded--if you're interested in her inside the club and not spending on her, you're insulting her personally and disrespecting her professionally. If she has an interest in you outside of purely economic considerations, it will become immediately obvious if you're paying any attention at all; strippers aren't generally ambiguous when it comes to expressing direct interest in a customer.

The axiom of money as a social lubricant is just as true ITC as it is OTC.

KS_Stevia
09-23-2010, 05:30 PM
Have any dancers come across customers who thought the dancers got paid a base salary to be there? (I've been told that in Vegas at least in some clubs the dancers do get paid to work day or graveyard shift.) Do some customers think dancing is worthwhile just for stage tips?

Yes, I have met MANY, MANY, MANY men, inside and outside of the club, that thought that. Far as I know, no Vegas club pays. I have worked at a club that paid a base shift before, but it wasn't in the US. Some clubs in small towns still pay, but its pretty much unheard of in big cities.

yoda57us
09-23-2010, 11:02 PM
I've "dated" a dancer or two and had casual RL friendships with several others...




Again, I never said I went out with them.

LOL, I'm sure you can see how I might get confused here BEM...

bem401
09-24-2010, 05:13 AM
LOL, I'm sure you can see how I might get confused here BEM...

Once again, you show a penchant for jumping to erroneous conclusions. You concluded I was referring to the same pair of dancers in two different posts. You have a track record of misinterpreting things I say and you wonder why I get more specific than necessary at times? Like you, I know more than a dancer or two.

KS_Stevia
09-24-2010, 05:36 AM
Why is "dated" in parenthesis Bem? Did you really date them? Or did you pay them for OTC? Or were they just girls who danced for you in the club?

Or, was this all in your mind like I suspect? ;)

bem401
09-24-2010, 05:53 AM
Why is "dated" in parenthesis Bem? Did you really date them? Or did you pay them for OTC? Or were they just girls who danced for you in the club?

Or, was this all in your mind like I suspect? ;)

I parenthesized the word because there's a difference between meeting a dancer for lunch and embarking on a series of traditional "dates". Need I explain further?

And for the record, the two girls I was referring to never danced for me in the club, offered to pay their share of the cost initially and, to the best of my knowledge, don't do OTC P4P, something I've never sought from them or any other dancer.

Hopper
09-24-2010, 05:59 AM
Another thread.

KS_Stevia
09-24-2010, 06:09 AM
I parenthesized the word because there's a difference between meeting a dancer for lunch and embarking on a series of traditional "dates". Need I explain further?

And for the record, the two girls I was referring to never danced for me in the club, offered to pay their share of the cost initially and, to the best of my knowledge, don't do OTC P4P, something I've never sought from them or any other dancer.

No, I do not understand. Did you date these girls as normal civilians would date?

Personally I do not care for the term 'date' when it refers to paid OTC, or god forbid, paid ITC. OR, when a stripper sometimes meets up with a custy for a free lunch or to get into a club for free or a shopping trip, and he considers it 'date.'

Honestly Bem, I am simply confused.

bem401
09-24-2010, 06:22 AM
No, I do not understand. Did you date these girls as normal civilians would date?

Personally I do not care for the term 'date' when it refers to paid OTC, or god forbid, paid ITC. OR, when a stripper sometimes meets up with a custy for a free lunch or to get into a club for free or a shopping trip, and he considers it 'date.'

Honestly Bem, I am simply confused.

Like I said, they were both a series of civilian dates. I just happened to meet the girls while they were working. I picked them up at home, we did whatever and I brought them back home at the end, eventually met their kids, just like any civilian dating experience.

yoda57us
09-24-2010, 06:36 AM
Once again, you show a penchant for jumping to erroneous conclusions. You concluded I was referring to the same pair of dancers in two different posts. You have a track record of misinterpreting things I say and you wonder why I get more specific than necessary at times? Like you, I know more than a dancer or two.

Actually bem I didn't misinterpret anything. I am simply busting your chops, as I very often do. It's very easy to do this because:

(A) you insist of muddying issues here repeatedly with irrelevant, inane repetitive facts about occurrences in your existence as a strip club non-customer that have nothing to do with the topic at hand most of the time.

and...

(B) You exhibit no discernible sense of humor here on stripperweb.

Your a smart guy bem but you outsmart yourself here on a fairly regular basis. Between your myopic view of women, dancers and strip clubs and your latent superiority complex it's no wonder that anything you say here rarely makes any logical sense. You drop hints to try and make yourself appear as a player and then when someone calls you on it you back off. I'm not actually confused about any aspect of your relationship with any dancer bem because I really don't give a flying fuck.

And really, at the risk of repeating myself, these references of yours to dancers we theoretically both know are rather foolish. You seem to think the references gives you some sort of credibility but most of these women are practically total strangers to me.

unbeleavable
09-24-2010, 07:27 AM
^^very funny

bem401
09-24-2010, 07:48 AM
Between your myopic view of women, dancers and strip clubs and your latent superiority complex it's no wonder that anything you say here rarely makes any logical sense. You drop hints to try and make yourself appear as a player and then when someone calls you on it you back off. I'm not actually confused about any aspect of your relationship with any dancer bem because I really don't give a flying fuck.

And really, at the risk of repeating myself, these references of yours to dancers we theoretically both know are rather foolish. You seem to think the references gives you some sort of credibility but most of these women are practically total strangers to me.

I have the myopic view? I'm not the one who for decades has found it necessary (while married) to pay dancers and escorts hundreds of dollars on a regular basis for a couple hours of their attention and thought myself the voice of reason, maturity, and normalcy at the same time.

Exactly when and where did I try to present myself as a player and where did someone calling me on it lead me to back off? If the fact that I moved beyond being a dancer's custy makes me a player, then I suppose I'm guilty as charged if that's your definition of a player. To me, it just means I didn't embrace the whole custy-ology lifestyle you seem to bask in.

When I refer to women we "theoretically" both know and you claim "most of them are practically strangers", you're admitting they exist and a good chunk of them you do know and IMO that does afford some credibilty to what I write. Feel free to be equally specific to prove my assertions wrong.

Once again, you have turned what was a very anonymous or generic debate into a personal attack rather than discuss the issue at hand.

hockeybobby
09-24-2010, 07:54 AM
Gentlemen...start your engines!!!

Kellydancer
09-24-2010, 10:40 AM
I have the myopic view? I'm not the one who for decades has found it necessary (while married) to pay dancers and escorts hundreds of dollars on a regular basis for a couple hours of their attention and thought myself the voice of reason, maturity, and normalcy at the same time.

Exactly when and where did I try to present myself as a player and where did someone calling me on it lead me to back off? If the fact that I moved beyond being a dancer's custy makes me a player, then I suppose I'm guilty as charged if that's your definition of a player. To me, it just means I didn't embrace the whole custy-ology lifestyle you seem to bask in.

When I refer to women we "theoretically" both know and you claim "most of them are practically strangers", you're admitting they exist and a good chunk of them you do know and IMO that does afford some credibilty to what I write. Feel free to be equally specific to prove my assertions wrong.

Once again, you have turned what was a very anonymous or generic debate into a personal attack rather than discuss the issue at hand.


At least Yoda is honest about what he wants and pays accordingly. He's the customer who "gets it". You Bem, from your posts don't. You claim in many threads you are "friends" with these dancers but I haven't found many examples of this friendship beyond the basic "we see each other outside". This tells me nothing. If I was in a store and saw a customer he could say we saw each other outside of the club. I also had a few friends who were friends long before dancing often came in the clubs, but didn't pay me for dances because that was weird (they got dances from other women).

If this sounds harsh it's because I am tired of customers (you aren't the only one who does this) who claim they got a date with a dancer even though they never paid or that they were "friends". Do you know how many guys have come into clubs claiming they were a friend of mine though I never met them before the club? Let me put it this way. Customers weren't usually friends (notable exception I mention frequently). Guys that never paid had no chance with me talking to them, let alone a date. Guys that were actual non club friends that came into clubs I had them get dances from other girls.

yoda57us
09-24-2010, 12:41 PM
I have the myopic view? I'm not the one who for decades has found it necessary (while married) to pay dancers and escorts hundreds of dollars on a regular basis for a couple hours of their attention and thought myself the voice of reason, maturity, and normalcy at the same time.

Bem, I present myself as only myself. I don't claim normalcy or maturity. I just do what works for me. You're questioning my morality? Hah! That's a good one!

As far as my spending habits while I was married you should thank your lucky stars every day that married men go to strip clubs. If they didn't those clubs would be largely empty and the friends whose time you so blatantly and proudly waste would all be working someplace where you can't go in, sit at the bar, and watch them walk around half naked while you spend no money on them and waste their time...


Exactly when and where did I try to present myself as a player and where did someone calling me on it lead me to back off?

See my post #137. Those are direct contradictory quotes from you on this very thread bem...


When I refer to women we "theoretically" both know and you claim "most of them are practically strangers", you're admitting they exist and a good chunk of them you do know and IMO that does afford some credibilty to what I write. Feel free to be equally specific to prove my assertions wrong.

Yes bem, they exist. So what? I don't know enough about them or your interactions with them for it to mean anything. You rattled off a bunch of names in your endless emails to me years ago and the vast majority of them are total strangers to me. They are names and faces in a strip club that I see on stage or maybe buy a dance or two from. I don't sit with them for hours on end bending their ears. What they tell you about dancing, clubs or customers means nothing to me. Whatever OTC relationship you may have with them is not something that I can or need to confirm.
As far as I can determine, there only two women of the many you have mentioned in past emails to me that I know well. One of them has never seen you OTC as a friend or anything else and the other hasn't returned your calls in years. Based on that, I am assuming that whatever women you are currently sharing a real life non-compensatory relationship with are total strangers to me. Credibility? It doesn't exist here bem but it really doesn't have to. You are entitled to whatever opinions you hold about the various topics we discuss here. You can prattle on all you like about what your friends who dance think about these topics as well. My familiarity or lack of it with your acquaintances is not really necessary.


Once again, you have turned what was a very anonymous or generic debate into a personal attack rather than discuss the issue at hand.

So, to be clear, you showed up on a thread devoted to the topic of dancers being interested in dating customers and dropped your usual load of irrelevant crap about your IRL dancer friends who you don't date but also don't spend any money in the club. You, once again, feel the need to disrupt a topic that you clearly have nothing to contribute to by flaunting your perceived superiority complex based on the theory that you are somehow above guys who go into strip cubs and actually spend money.

Trust me bem, I can live with my decision to call BS when I read it...

Hockeyfan_4
09-24-2010, 02:02 PM
Stripperweb death match!

Yoda vs BEM

In this corner.....

Promnesiac
09-24-2010, 03:51 PM
I love going into restaurants where friends work, ordering food, eating it, and then leaving without paying the tab. I mean, they're friends, right? Friends don't want you to pay them in their place of business. ::)