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rickdugan
07-05-2010, 08:03 PM
Over the last couple of years I have experienced this a handful of times. For some reason, there is a certain club in the South where the girls are pushing this.

This can be a gift or a curse. When it happens well, it is a great time. Two lessons recently learned include:

1. Two young hot strippers + one chilled bottle of Grey Goose + a nice hotel room = one hell of a good time;

2. 20 + 20 does NOT = 40.

When it happens badly,though, it is awkward. It is quite weird to have a girl sit in a corner seat in your room watching you do things to her friend.

I have had about an equal number of each of these and it gives me mixed views about doing this. It has also led me to quote two different prices up front: one price if the primary girl gives solo and another if the friend actually joins in.

But I always wonder why a girl would want to sit in a corner for nothing.

hockeybobby
07-05-2010, 08:27 PM
But I always wonder why a girl would want to sit in a corner for nothing.

Maybe for training purposes?

yoda57us
07-05-2010, 08:43 PM
Well, you are not hiring pro's, you are hiring strippers. It's quite possible that the two girls are working together for safety sake but the one sitting in the corner either got cold feet and decided not to have sex for money or perhaps she never intended to at all. She may be there as an observer only.

rickdugan
07-05-2010, 08:53 PM
Well, you are not hiring pro's, you are hiring strippers. It's quite possible that the two girls are working together for safety sake but the one sitting in the corner either got cold feet and decided not to have sex for money or perhaps she never intended to at all. She may be there as an observer only.

I agree with this and I think both situations have happened. I had one girl who was the corner girl about 4 months ago come up to me last week and make a separate offer. I asked her what happened the last time and she told me that she was not sure whether it was ok to insert herself into the action, so instead she sat it out. In another instance, the corner girl was uncomfortable enough about things that I am sure she was there solely for her friend.

Fortunately I have set up a pay structure that is designed to deal with both the one or two participant scenarios, but it does stink when the second girl sits in the corner like a statue.

yoda57us
07-05-2010, 09:08 PM
Threesomes for pay can be a crap shoot either way. I have experienced the opposite extreme where two pro's will be so good at working you over that you pop in about two minutes and they are dressed and out the door before you can even ask about a round two...Lots of these "two girl specials" on Craig's List or Back Page...

I don't really do threesomes anymore. I can think of a few combination's of ladies that I would love to put in a room together with me in the middle but, barring one of my dream fantasy combos, I'm pretty much into one vagina at a time these days...

rickdugan
07-06-2010, 05:07 AM
Threesomes for pay can be a crap shoot either way. I have experienced the opposite extreme where two pro's will be so good at working you over that you pop in about two minutes and they are dressed and out the door before you can even ask about a round two...

A crap shoot indeed. My gig includes paying after the deed is done and negotiating upfront for the full hour. This generally wouldn't work with pros as they require the money upfront, but OTC strippers are usually more flexible and a second round is generally guaranteed as long as I am physically able. Of course, sometimes I am so drunk that after the main event I just want them to leave, but usually I will try for the second cup.

yoda57us
07-06-2010, 06:52 AM
My gig includes paying after the deed is done and negotiating upfront for the full hour. This generally wouldn't work with pros as they require the money upfront...

The first time you see a girl she will, even if she doesn't ask for it she will be looking for the envelope the minute she walks in. Once you have regulars it's a whole different story and much more similar to positive aspects of hooking up with a dancer. Of course, when you are on the road you are not always going to be able to hook-up with the girl you saw on your last trip. Sometimes I roll the dice and sometimes I don't. It all depends on how adventurous I'm feeling.

JoeUnCool
07-06-2010, 07:58 AM
It might be p4p, but jealousy will still rear its ugly head. it happens, been there, done that, got the tee shirt, won't f***ing make that mistake again.

JoeUnCool
07-06-2010, 08:00 AM
........I'm pretty much into one vagina at a time these days...

I only have 1 penis, so I can only do one girl at a time anyway.

yoda57us
07-06-2010, 08:14 AM
I only have 1 penis, so I can only do one girl at a time anyway.

If you are only using your penis you are missing out...}:D

yoda57us
07-06-2010, 08:22 AM
It might be p4p, but jealousy will still rear its ugly head. it happens, been there, done that, got the tee shirt, won't f***ing make that mistake again.


Oh, abso-freaking-lutely! Jealousy in P4P, be it strippers or escorts, can be even more brutal than in real-world relationships. Selling your body is a very personal thing. If a guy rejects it for another after he has paid for it a few times there are all sorts of emotions involved including of course loss of revenue. Innocent pillow talk can lead to all sorts of problems. Escorting, like dancing, is a small community on a local level. If you think that the ladies aren't talking about you, in back channel or in the dressing room you are wrong. The trick is to treat everyone decently and not to BS them. Women will fight with each other over your money, you can't control that. You can control some the reasons why they want your money and how much value you get for it.

rickdugan
07-06-2010, 11:08 AM
I only have 1 penis, so I can only do one girl at a time anyway.

You also have two hands, a mouth and some other extremities, all of which can and should get involved.

Also, there are the occasional bathroom breaks, though that can make things a bit tangy if she re-assumes a position close to your face ;)

KS_Stevia
07-06-2010, 12:53 PM
Not paying them until afterwards is super uncool. If you've managed to get the girl OTC, she's going to be much more relaxed when she is in the room with money in hand. If I went OTC, and he wouldn't pay me once we were in the room and settled, I would just walk out the door.

Sometimes people can change significantly after they've popped their rocks, and decide they don't want to pay. Happens in the club all the time. I'd feel terrible if I sexed someone and then they decided to short me, or not pay at all. A room trashing would likely ensue. Your risk man, your risk.

rickdugan
07-06-2010, 01:34 PM
Not paying them until afterwards is super uncool. If you've managed to get the girl OTC, she's going to be much more relaxed when she is in the room with money in hand. If I went OTC, and he wouldn't pay me once we were in the room and settled, I would just walk out the door.

Sometimes people can change significantly after they've popped their rocks, and decide they don't want to pay. Happens in the club all the time. I'd feel terrible if I sexed someone and then they decided to short me, or not pay at all. A room trashing would likely ensue. Your risk man, your risk.


Her relaxation is not my primary concern. And on the flip side of the coin, she will also be much more likely to be less motivated, to pull some stunt or any number of other stupid things that can happen once you have completely handed over the reins by paying upfront.

In my younger days this happened to me a couple of times. Lesson learned. A clever and less than honorable girl well knows that I'm a good target because, as a married man and a business owner working in a high profile industry, there's no way that I'm going to do anything that will draw attention to what I'm doing.

As part of the pre-OTC negotiation I am very upfront about the terms so that there is no confusion at the hotel. There are a couple that have balked while at the club, but IMO those that did had other agendas. Once at the hotel I have never had anyone walk, but there are some that need to see that I have the money - which is no problem. And, of course, I have always paid my tab. ;)

But if a girl changes her mind at the hotel and decides that those terms are not acceptable to her, then she knows where the door is.

Wolverine
07-06-2010, 03:36 PM
I have never paid "before the deed is done". No way, no how. I'm sure it's not ALWAYS the case, but if a stripper agrees to do OTC with a customer, there HAS to be just a little bit of trust there. When I'm in my hometown I do OTC out of my home, so there's definitely a little trust from my end for that.

As for 2 Girl OTC...can't say I've done it or been offered it. Sure, I'll take on multiple women (2-4) in a day at the club, but that's usually just one at a time.

Chili Palmer
07-06-2010, 03:42 PM
Not paying them until afterwards is super uncool. If you've managed to get the girl OTC, she's going to be much more relaxed when she is in the room with money in hand. If I went OTC, and he wouldn't pay me once we were in the room and settled, I would just walk out the door.

Speaking from personal experience, I have never, ever paid a dancer upfront when doing OTC, nor has it even been asked (really). To me, it's no different than a dancer inside a club asking for money upfront when the norm is to pay afterwards: it's a giant clue she's not gonna give what she promised.

As you know, I'm a very low maintenance guy in a club, and I do my utmost to avoid causing drama or having drama around me in a club, so perhaps that's the kind of dancer whom I typically attract for these ventures: she knows I'm serious, safe and extremely unlikely to rip her off or do bodily harm, and vice versa, so the money issue never comes up. At some point, she excuses herself to the bathroom to change, and her money magically appears at her purse. Voila!

Funny story about my first OTC 3some: smokin' hot young thang with natural DD's and an angelic face. She'd moved from club to club and always let me know, then she disappeared. Reappeared 6 months later at another club, seemed genuinely happy to see me again, exchanged new phone numbers, and she agreed to meet.

I arrange the hotel room, call her and leave a message with the room number. No return call. We're supposed to meet at 8PM, now it's approaching 9:30 with no sign of her. I decide not to waste the hotel room, and head down the freeway to Spearmint Rhino, where I know I'll be able to find someone to help me mess up the bedsheets. I'm at the club for about 30 minutes when I get a return call: it's her, apologizing profusely (quick, how many "dancer excuses" can you name in 30 seconds?) for not being on time and pleading with me to come back to hotel. I'm hesitant, but she's really, really sorry and she'll make it up to me.

Of course I cave and head back to the hotel. As I get off the elevator, I am greeted by a rather amusing sight: TWO dancers literally sitting in the hallway in front of my hotel room door, dressed in their finest stripperwear. Perhaps one of the most incongruous sights I've ever seen. Anyway, we head inside and immediately start the festivities, including using the hot tub in a manner which I am sure violated its engineering specifications.

Funny thing was, at one point her friend complained I didn't fuck her enough. I explained to her I felt kinda bad, as the amount I was paying wasn't changing, and I didn't want to take advantage. She said, "Fuck that, I just want some cock,too," so I was happy to oblige her.

Good times.

CP

KS_Stevia
07-06-2010, 05:34 PM
My OTC memories are getting hazy, but I'm pretty sure my guys paid me up front. Not at the club or anything, but within 5 minutes of arriving at rendevous spot. Oh wait, just remembered an "after" pay time. That was a good one, I think it was something like $2K, for an all-nighter sex and drugs bender with another girl, and the guy of course.

JoeUnCool
07-06-2010, 06:23 PM
If you are only using your penis you are missing out...}:D

While I get enjoyment out of using things besides my penis, I was implying that the enjoyment of the lady would not be my primary concern in a known p4p scenario. Before I get jumped on about this, realize that p4p is not a real relationship. It has a different set of rules and realities. Now, I would never do something that would cause pain, the reality is that I'm paying for my enjoyment, not a girl's. Now, doing something that she doesn't like, or trying to force it on her, will result in a bad session. Her enjoyment would not be not my primary concern.

JoeUnCool
07-06-2010, 06:35 PM
Speaking from personal experience, I have never, ever paid a dancer upfront when doing OTC, nor has it even been asked (really). To me, it's no different than a dancer inside a club asking for money upfront when the norm is to pay afterwards: it's a giant clue she's not gonna give what she promised.

As you know, I'm a very low maintenance guy in a club, and I do my utmost to avoid causing drama or having drama around me in a club, so perhaps that's the kind of dancer whom I typically attract for these ventures: she knows I'm serious, safe and extremely unlikely to rip her off or do bodily harm, and vice versa, so the money issue never comes up. At some point, she excuses herself to the bathroom to change, and her money magically appears at her purse. Voila!

My OTC experience with a stripper that involved sex was a complete disaster. I'm a low maintennance guy. I got dragged into the middle of two manipulators. No one specifically talked about money for anything in particular, except when it came time for rent, car payment, abortion(not mine), or insert excuse here.


Funny story about my first OTC 3some: smokin' hot young thang with natural DD's and an angelic face. She'd moved from club to club and always let me know, then she disappeared. Reappeared 6 months later at another club, seemed genuinely happy to see me again, exchanged new phone numbers, and she agreed to meet.

I arrange the hotel room, call her and leave a message with the room number. No return call. We're supposed to meet at 8PM, now it's approaching 9:30 with no sign of her. I decide not to waste the hotel room, and head down the freeway to Spearmint Rhino, where I know I'll be able to find someone to help me mess up the bedsheets. I'm at the club for about 30 minutes when I get a return call: it's her, apologizing profusely (quick, how many "dancer excuses" can you name in 30 seconds?) for not being on time and pleading with me to come back to hotel. I'm hesitant, but she's really, really sorry and she'll make it up to me.

Of course I cave and head back to the hotel. As I get off the elevator, I am greeted by a rather amusing sight: TWO dancers literally sitting in the hallway in front of my hotel room door, dressed in their finest stripperwear. Perhaps one of the most incongruous sights I've ever seen. Anyway, we head inside and immediately start the festivities, including using the hot tub in a manner which I am sure violated its engineering specifications.

Funny thing was, at one point her friend complained I didn't fuck her enough. I explained to her I felt kinda bad, as the amount I was paying wasn't changing, and I didn't want to take advantage. She said, "Fuck that, I just want some cock,too," so I was happy to oblige her.

Good times.

CP

Did either tell you "Oh my gosh, your dick is big", "wow, you are really inshape", or insert phony line?

Seriously, you felt bad about one of the chicks complaining about not fucking enough? Seriously? You are worried about whether some chick had enough sex? Really? Did you really believe that statement? Really?

yoda57us
07-06-2010, 08:28 PM
While I get enjoyment out of using things besides my penis, I was implying that the enjoyment of the lady would not be my primary concern in a known p4p scenario.


Well, again I say it. You are missing out. Sex is supposed to be fun. If all you want to do is use a woman's vagina as a place for you to slide you penis in and out for a few minutes I guess nothing I say will change your mind. I take a different approach however. If the sex is good for her it's going to be better for me. Often times it will also mean a better ROI for me which really should register as a positive for anyone involved in P4P. The fact of the matter is it's pretty darned easy to show the lady a good time just by doing what comes naturally and not treating her like a rubber fuck doll...

Ah well, to each his own...

JoeUnCool
07-06-2010, 08:36 PM
You also have two hands, a mouth and some other extremities, all of which can and should get involved.

I'm not so sure that the use of the other parts of the body would increase my enjoyment of the situation.



Also, there are the occasional bathroom breaks, though that can make things a bit tangy if she re-assumes a position close to your face ;)
Performing oral on a stripper OTC based on a P4P sounds like a really bad idea to me.

rickdugan
07-06-2010, 08:58 PM
Joe, it sounds as if the whole OTC thing has not really worked out for you. It would also seem as if you are not particularly adventerous. Cool on both fronts and to each his own, but if these impressions are true then you may lack a bit of perspective here.

First, if you got scammed then that is your fault. There are plenty of con artists in this game, but a grown man has to learn to sniff this out and just say no when the con is on. For most of us, the OTC experience involves a negotiated p4p, not a girl looking for bill/rent/grocery money.

And you are definitely barking up the wrong tree with Chili. He is a big boy and can respond for himself, but he never said that he believed what he was being told by stripper #2, only that he obliged her request. Chili is a serious monger who has been doing this for a long time so I am not concerned that he was hoodwinked in any way. And if he was, then the result of this bogus claim was that he stuck his member into the second girl. Not exactly a bad outcome ;)

JoeUnCool
07-06-2010, 09:17 PM
Well, again I say it. You are missing out. Sex is supposed to be fun. If all you want to do is use a woman's vagina as a place for you to slide you penis in and out for a few minutes I guess nothing I say will change your mind. I take a different approach however. If the sex is good for her it's going to be better for me. Often times it will also mean a better ROI for me which really should register as a positive for anyone involved in P4P. The fact of the matter is it's pretty darned easy to show the lady a good time just by doing what comes naturally and not treating her like a rubber fuck doll...

Ah well, to each his own...

I don't think that we disagree. I think the issue is a matter of degrees. For example, I tend to negotiate my vip trips when I don't have a feeling about what the girl will do. The last time this came up, I discussed what I wanted and if that was ok with her. Never once did the discussion of what she liked came up. How did she feel about it? After that first session, every time I went into her club, she always came running when she saw me. I never pinched, bit, slapped her ass, or did anything that an entertainer would not like. I never pulled her hair hard, held her down, tried to fuck her in the ass, or be verbally abusive in anyway. Not once was she treated like a hooker or streetwalker with no thought to what was painful or not. At the same time, I didn't ask what she wanted.

One of the basic rules of the SC is that the entertainers are in it for the money. A corollary to that is it's my money, so I can spend it however I want to. If a girl doesn't like what I want, she can say no or I can go to another girl or club.

Having said that its all about capitalism, its not that you can't be friends with the girls. I've had several entertainers that I've had real friendships with. You can care about their feelings. I still keep up with several and its not about the money because they don't get any from me. But P4P isn't real relationship. When you confuse the p4p with a real relationship, you are setting yourself up for a problem.

yeah, I'm sure that that is more than you wanted to hear. :)

lopaw
07-06-2010, 09:35 PM
I think it's understood that P4P OTC is not a relationship - it is an exchange of money for services. But I agree with yoda that HER enjoyment will enhance MY enjoyment, and many of us get alot of pleasure in knowing that our partner is enjoying themselves as much as we are.

It doesn't have to take on the aspect of a real relationship in anyone's mind for both parties to enjoy the encounter. Caring for the well-being or sexual satisfaction of an escort/dancer OTC doesn't have to translate into a feigned "relationship" on the part of the client. It's just basic, human caring.

Chili Palmer
07-06-2010, 10:21 PM
My OTC experience with a stripper that involved sex was a complete disaster. I'm a low maintennance guy. I got dragged into the middle of two manipulators. No one specifically talked about money for anything in particular, except when it came time for rent, car payment, abortion(not mine), or insert excuse here.

That sounds, as ESPN's Colin Cowherd would say, like a "you problem." Sorry, no one gets "dragged in the middle" of two manipulators, you allowed it happen, and if you were too stupid/horny/smitten/greedy to stop it from happening, well, I can understand why you'd want to try and rain on the parade of those who actually can separate the wheat from the chaff.


Did either tell you "Oh my gosh, your dick is big", "wow, you are really inshape", or insert phony line?

I hear it all the time, that's why I'm also a member (pun intended) of the Large Penis Support Group (google it). It's a curse. :pickle:


Seriously, you felt bad about one of the chicks complaining about not fucking enough? Seriously? You are worried about whether some chick had enough sex? Really? Did you really believe that statement? Really?

No, I said I did not want to take advantage of a chick whom I wasn't expecting to be there and fuck her without paying extra. She said she didn't care, she just wanted to get laid. Reading comprehension much?

Personally, Joe, I enjoy your posts here, but you appear to be a drama magnet. Why is a question only you can answer, but perhaps not treating the women in your life (including the professional ones) like a Real Doll may make your P4P forays more enjoyable in the future.

Whoever my partner is, I am first and foremost concerned with her pleasure, even if I am footing the bill. If all I wanted was an orgasm, I could just rub one out to the tens of terabytes of porn I have collected over the years. In his action novel "Shibumi," Trevanian's main character, Nicholaļ Hel, asks a sexual partner if he may be "selfish" with her. In his parlance, being selfish means acting only to give his partner pleasure, with no concern for his own. It is selfish because in any act of intimacy, there must be giving as well as receiving for it be truly enjoyed by both. I've treated all my partners this way, whether it was a "real" relationship, an escort or a wayward dancer (or two). No complaints, and no one ever stopped returning my calls/texts after our encounters, including a few SW'ers.

Far be it from me to give advice, but I try to live all my relationships with a positive sum outcome, whether they be the waitress who takes care of me at Denny's, the gal who does my dry cleaning, or the dancer who lets me toss her salad. It's how I roll.

CP

JoeUnCool
07-07-2010, 04:56 AM
Joe, it sounds as if the whole OTC thing has not really worked out for you. It would also seem as if you are not particularly adventerous. Cool on both fronts and to each his own, but if these impressions are true then you may lack a bit of perspective here.

First, if you got scammed then that is your fault. There are plenty of con artists in this game, but a grown man has to learn to sniff this out and just say no when the con is on. For most of us, the OTC experience involves a negotiated p4p, not a girl looking for bill/rent/grocery money.

Didn't Great White have a song "Once Bitten Twice Shy"?
Perhaps rereading TRs would be helpful in explaining my perspective on things.



And you are definitely barking up the wrong tree with Chili. He is a big boy and can respond for himself, but he never said that he believed what he was being told by stripper #2, only that he obliged her request. Chili is a serious monger who has been doing this for a long time so I am not concerned that he was hoodwinked in any way. And if he was, then the result of this bogus claim was that he stuck his member into the second girl. Not exactly a bad outcome ;)

Actually, my point wasn't directed at CP. He's a legend at SCJ. If I were to ever be in the presence of CP or Yoda, I would definitely have the image of "We're not worthy" from "Wayne's World" in my head. If he takes it as an attack on him, I apologize. My point is that a lot of times, men will think that the escort/entertainer/provider is being honest and truthful regarding what they say. One should take what is said with a grain of salt (CP says this in his post). Many times customers don't want to hear the truth. They want to hear what they want to hear. Listen to what an entertainer says. Smile. Say thanks. Act on it. For god's sake, please don't believe it 100%.

PS. Due to bad internet tubez here, this post didn't make it up until about 8 hours after it was written.

rickdugan
07-07-2010, 05:28 AM
Didn't Great White have a song "Once Bitten Twice Shy"?
Perhaps rereading TRs would be helpful in explaining my perspective on things.

Damn - these Wayne's World and Great White references are givimg me bad '80s flashbacks. ;)

Do this long enough and you are likely to fall for a con at some point, usually in the early days. It happened to me a couple of times in my younger years and, IMO, any monger that tells you that he has never had a game run on him is probably not being completely truthful. This is what I call tuition, and after a couple of times you learn to sniff out the girls trying to run a game. You also learn to put rules of behavior in place designed to limit your exposure to con artists.

However, some guys just aren't suited to this sort of thing, particularly those that need that emotional connection with the stripper. Not only will those emotions cloud your judgement, but some of the more predatory dancers know how to spot it and take advantage of it.

If you need to build relationships with dancers and you are prone to emotional buy-in, then you may just want to keep your activities ITC.

JoeUnCool
07-07-2010, 05:36 AM
That sounds, as ESPN's Colin Cowherd would say, like a "you problem." Sorry, no one gets "dragged in the middle" of two manipulators, you allowed it happen, and if you were too stupid/horny/smitten/greedy to stop it from happening, well, I can understand why you'd want to try and rain on the parade of those who actually can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Terminology aside, consider my viewpoint a warning of what can happen in a worst case scenario. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Consider me the devil's advocate based on personal past experience.


I hear it all the time, that's why I'm also a member (pun intended) of the Large Penis Support Group (google it). It's a curse. :pickle:

<joke>Excellent. I can be a member of the SPSG.</joke>




No, I said I did not want to take advantage of a chick whom I wasn't expecting to be there and fuck her without paying extra. She said she didn't care, she just wanted to get laid. Reading comprehension much?

Personally, Joe, I enjoy your posts here, but you appear to be a drama magnet. Why is a question only you can answer, but perhaps not treating the women in your life (including the professional ones) like a Real Doll may make your P4P forays more enjoyable in the future.

Given the years of harassment that I went through, consider my words as a warning, nothing more when dealing in P4P. Don't get too excited about them, merely treat them as a warning of what can happen in an almost worse case scenario (outside of Tiger). While it happened many years ago, the shear ferocity of if makes me gun shy. Consider my words as words of warning, nothing more.

I do not treat a woman poorly if she is a stripper. I have not treated them poorly ITC or OTC. I merely understand the relationship.




Whoever my partner is, I am first and foremost concerned with her pleasure, even if I am footing the bill. If all I wanted was an orgasm, I could just rub one out to the tens of terabytes of porn I have collected over the years. In his action novel "Shibumi," Trevanian's main character, Nicholaļ Hel, asks a sexual partner if he may be "selfish" with her. In his parlance, being selfish means acting only to give his partner pleasure, with no concern for his own. It is selfish because in any act of intimacy, there must be giving as well as receiving for it be truly enjoyed by both. I've treated all my partners this way, whether it was a "real" relationship, an escort or a wayward dancer (or two). No complaints, and no one ever stopped returning my calls/texts after our encounters, including a few SW'ers.

I "get" where you are coming from. I understand what you are saying. At the same time, your way and my way aren't the same. You have a system that works for you. I have a system that works for me. Like you, I have never had a complaint (outside of the one nightmare). if I do go out, I do tend to get offers. I just don't allow them to go beyond offers.

I'm kinda curious as to what anyone thinks my system is?




Far be it from me to give advice, but I try to live all my relationships with a positive sum outcome, whether they be the waitress who takes care of me at Denny's, the gal who does my dry cleaning, or the dancer who lets me toss her salad. It's how I roll.

CP
I think this is the point where there is a difference of opinion. My view is that an SC (and by extension P4P) is about fantasy land. I'm paying for my fantasy, not her's.

Real relationships result in someone being treated one way. P4P relationships are treated differently. Its upto the person to understand which relationship it is. The wrong decision can be painful indeed.

yoda57us
07-07-2010, 05:49 AM
yeah, I'm sure that that is more than you wanted to hear. :)

LOL, not at all Joe. It is P4P, it is your money and you have a right to spend it the way you want to. From the ladies POV, they are always going to be happy to see a guy who treats them with respect even if the session is all about him. Ultimately they do it for the money. If they enjoy themselves during the process of doing that most girls will tell you that it's a bonus, not an expectation.

JoeUnCool
07-07-2010, 05:58 AM
Damn - these Wayne's World and Great White references are givimg me bad '80s flashbacks. ;)

I'm also a fan of big hair. ::)


Do this long enough and you are likely to fall for a con at some point, usually in the early days. It happened to me a couple of times in my younger years and, IMO, any monger that tells you that he has never had a game run on him is probably not being completely truthful. This is what I call tuition, and after a couple of times you learn to sniff out the girls trying to run a game. You also learn to put rules of behavior in place designed to limit your exposure to con artists.

I think I paid multiple years of tuition at a private Ivy League school.............



However, some guys just aren't suited to this sort of thing, particularly those that need that emotional connection with the stripper. Not only will those emotions cloud your judgement, but some of the more predatory dancers know how to spot it and take advantage of it.

One of the reasons why I don't do OTC, except under a strict set of guidelines (see other TRs).



If you need to build relationships with dancers and you are prone to emotional buy-in, then you may just want to keep your activities ITC.
I'm strictly an ITC type of guy at this point in my life.

JoeUnCool
07-07-2010, 06:01 AM
LOL, not at all Joe. It is P4P, it is your money and you have a right to spend it the way you want to. From the ladies POV, they are always going to be happy to see a guy who treats them with respect even if the session is all about him. Ultimately they do it for the money. If they enjoy themselves during the process of doing that most girls will tell you that it's a bonus, not an expectation.
I think that CP, Rick, you, and I agree much more than this thread might seem to indicate.

yoda57us
07-07-2010, 10:29 AM
I think that CP, Rick, you, and I agree much more than this thread might seem to indicate.

I think that is a pitfall of trying to carry on a debate on a chat board rather than face to face. The nuances of conversation are tough to convey. In addition, the anonymity, in my opinion, makes it a bit easier to say things to a total stranger in a post that you probably would not say to a total stranger in a bar. I admit to being passionate about my opinions on this board and on any other board that I post on but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in reading opposing points of view even if I don't always agree with them...

KS_Stevia
07-07-2010, 04:43 PM
While I get enjoyment out of using things besides my penis, I was implying that the enjoyment of the lady would not be my primary concern in a known p4p scenario. Before I get jumped on about this, realize that p4p is not a real relationship. It has a different set of rules and realities. Now, I would never do something that would cause pain, the reality is that I'm paying for my enjoyment, not a girl's. Now, doing something that she doesn't like, or trying to force it on her, will result in a bad session. Her enjoyment would not be not my primary concern.

That's just so weird, I cannot grok this mindset. Even if my partner is putting on a show and I am paying for it, the entire affair would be a bust if I didn't make an effort for both of us to enjoy ourselves. But I've certainly been there, the giver of an hour long extremely uncomfortable blow job...paid and unpaid. Its just seems weird to want to pay for someone to be miserable and not care, almost sadistic.

KS_Stevia
07-07-2010, 04:54 PM
My view is that an SC (and by extension P4P) is about fantasy land. I'm paying for my fantasy, not her's.


Well my friend, believe you me, her fantasy has nothing to do with you even being in the room. So, taking it easy on the sex, doing some mutual playing, letting her rest a moment if she is sore, etc, even performing the orals if you both are inclined...is not her fantasy anyway.

Although don't get me wrong, I'm totally down for a stranger to pay me to stick it in me from behind for 2 minutes, especially if its small, and not care if I respond sexually or not. Lube can mimic wetness, and I can close my eyes and pretend I'm somewhere else. But it doesn't seem like a great time for the man, now does it?

JoeUnCool
07-07-2010, 06:03 PM
Well my friend, believe you me, her fantasy has nothing to do with you even being in the room. So, taking it easy on the sex, doing some mutual playing, letting her rest a moment if she is sore, etc, even performing the orals if you both are inclined...is not her fantasy anyway.

Although don't get me wrong, I'm totally down for a stranger to pay me to stick it in me from behind for 2 minutes, especially if its small, and not care if I respond sexually or not. Lube can mimic wetness, and I can close my eyes and pretend I'm somewhere else. But it doesn't seem like a great time for the man, now does it?

Interesting how u have decided to take my statements to the extreme. I've always found it interesting that so many people in life complain that if they can't be first in line, they won't accept anyplace else.

KS_Stevia
07-07-2010, 07:32 PM
Not trying to be extreme. I do see your point. If you notice my posts were kind of all over the place anyway.

lopaw
07-07-2010, 08:00 PM
1. Two young hot strippers + one chilled bottle of Grey Goose + a nice hotel room = one hell of a good time



rick,

You're setting that bar awfully high for the rest of us PL's to try and keep up with you!

But I'm always up for a good challenge, should one ever roll my way ;)

rickdugan
07-07-2010, 08:09 PM
rick,

You're setting that bar awfully high for the rest of us PL's to try and keep up with you!

But I'm always up for a good challenge, should one ever roll my way ;)

Lol Lopaw - I suspect that you have some stories that would put this little tale to shame - I can only hope to still be around when you decide to share them ;)

But I can't honestly take credit for the chiled bottle of Grey Goose - it was their room and it was sitting on ice in their bathroom sink of all places. I guess it's a Southern thing. Of course they were kind enough to share (not that we were all not drunk enough already).

Good times.

JoeUnCool
07-08-2010, 07:10 AM
Lol Lopaw - I suspect that you have some stories that would put this little tale to shame - I can only hope to still be around when you decide to share them ;)

But I can't honestly take credit for the chiled bottle of Grey Goose - it was their room and it was sitting on ice in their bathroom sink of all places. I guess it's a Southern thing. Of course they were kind enough to share (not that we were all not drunk enough already).

Good times.

I am living vicariously through the basement.

yoda57us
07-08-2010, 07:54 AM
Although don't get me wrong, I'm totally down for a stranger to pay me to stick it in me from behind for 2 minutes, especially if its small,

Who ever thought that being small would be an advantage...::)

thatguy2
08-21-2010, 06:15 PM
I only have 1 penis, so I can only do one girl at a time anyway.

You need to think outside the box or inside it with something else

ilbbaicnl
09-13-2010, 08:39 AM
Performing oral on a stripper OTC based on a P4P sounds like a really bad idea to me.

Doing oral without a barrier on an adult entertainer is probably safer than with some random hook-up. Women who do sex work I think are less likely to do unprotected vaginal and anal with lots of guys.