View Full Version : Dancer's Overcharging
bem401
07-23-2010, 05:51 AM
I once had a dancer try to charge me for 4 nude dances when she did 3 topless ones. When I refused to pay what she demanded, she acted all perturbed. I told her "take what you're entitled to or get a manager over here". She took the money. Why anyone would allow himself to get ripped off is beyond me. Why any guy would agree beforehand to pay more than the club rate for a dance also escapes me. I often paid more for a dance when I used to do them because I would tip as often as not. Any girl demanding more than the going price would be told to take her chances with someone else. That being said, any girl who can successfully charge more and max out what she makes shouldn't change what she does.
bigmarv
07-23-2010, 12:48 PM
Apparently the dancer you picked wasn't the brightest crayon in the box... or at least not bright enough to know the rules & laws before she tried charging more. That's her own fault, but not the issue at all clubs.
Well she was a newbie dancer, I just don't know where she got the idea to try and upcharge for dances in VIP. But I don't hold anything against her, hopefully she will live and learn. Your right though, that issue has never came up with any dancer at other clubs I've visited.
Smokeless
07-23-2010, 04:40 PM
Why any guy would agree beforehand to pay more than the club rate for a dance also escapes me.
Like everything else in this crazy stripper world, there is no standard and lots of crap. One club I once frequented has a sign posted over the LD area that reads "Private Dances $30." It's been there for years. Perhaps decades. I can't get a LD for less than $40 (I accepted), and I've had gals offer as high as $80 and more (I refused).
On the other hand, I've had other club owners query me whether a dancer undercharged or overcharged me. I've never shared. It's between me and the dancer.
Kylea2
07-23-2010, 06:40 PM
On the other hand, I've had other club owners query me whether a dancer undercharged or overcharged me. I've never shared. It's between me and the dancer.
^^^^ Exactly! +2 & lots of hugs.
If the customer doesn't like the offer they can try negotiating or look elsewhere!
doc-catfish
07-24-2010, 01:39 PM
Hi there everyone. Long time listener, first in quite a while poster.
For inquiring minds who want to know, I'm still doing the hobby, but some of the practices described in threads like these are one reason my involvement in it has declined in the last couple years, and whatever involvement I have left is primarily with clubs and dancers I am in some degree familiar with, so I know I'm not going to run into someone pulling these type of unscrupulous practices. By the looks on the faces of the ladies I've met, I'm sure they're happy to see me for the same reason.
I can't necessarily claim things in clubs have gotten worse, but with each bad experience, I sure as shit have gotten less tolerant of it, and more allergic to it. I've figured considering the cost of a SC visit, its not something I want to fork over that kind of cash on only to walk out of the place with my stomach in knots because I felt I wasn't treated right. So I figured its just better to save the cash, not to mention the gas money (the nearest club to my home is about an hour), and stay home.
Anyways, any time I've been at an unfamiliar joint, or even one I haven't been to in a very long time, I'll be sure to ask a girl or two about pricing before I commit to anyone and ask any girl I do commit to again. That way you know when you're dealing with someone charging more than the norm. Caveat emptor.
Smokeless
07-24-2010, 09:08 PM
^^^ Good to hear from you.
I, too, like to deal with dancers with whom I'm familiar. But the turnover is intense.
Golden_Rule
07-25-2010, 05:29 PM
Hi there everyone. Long time listener, first in quite a while poster.
Hey DC. It has been awhile. I was gone as well for six months or so but just popped back in to see who was doing what to whom.
wishing well...
startngate
08-10-2010, 11:52 AM
Interesting ... for me it's been the opposite as of late. Lots of offers to do 2-1's all the time and dancers at the end of a set that haven't kept track of the number of dances that just tell me to pay them what I want. Haven't had anyone try to overcharge me in years.
Redwolf
08-16-2010, 09:44 PM
I had one dancer recently so blatantly deceive me about the higher level of VIP dances that she received no tip but just the required payment. I am not mad because she teased with the hint of high mileage as some other dancers might easily surmise. The fact is that she told me that the dances were completely nude at the elite tier of VIP dances and that they were in complete privacy. Both were wrong.
After one dancer 'inflated' the number songs danced (I paid up what she asked but without the usual generous tip. I wasn't exactly sure of the count but she jumped it up so much and with so little confidence, that I saw through her act.), I decided to keep better track. So a week later when a dancer says, "Umm, I think that it was like 7 or 8," I was ready, "Actually it was five." And she said, "Oh, yeah, you're right."
I guess that the minority who try this (most don't) are only thinking about the quick dollar. They are ruining their long term financial possibility with me. I am sure they regret it after I spend $400 on the next dancer during two long sessions. [Don't tell me that the overcharger doesn't know whom I go back with and for roughly how long. In the mid to small clubs, my experience is that dancers always know with whom you have danced and roughly for how long. That is why so many start coming up to my table after seeing other girls benefit from a number of VIPs] And she might think, "Oops, if only I would have known that he might be a repeat customer."
And it works for me equally the other way. If a dancer tells me $20 each but offers 3 dances for $50, she will always recoup way more tip money for her consideration (more that make up for the $10 discount). So instead of a dance or two with an okay tip, she ends up with at least three dances and a very generous tip and more likely half a dozen dances and $150. The same thing happens if she throws in an extra dance after having many dances together. My tip is increased to more than make up for the extra dance. Only problem: I must keep this from spreading to all the dancers or they will all start offering better rates for multiple dances and free dances after many, knowing how I will reward their generosity.
thatguy2
08-21-2010, 06:12 PM
I had a girl ask me how much I wanted to tip when I handed her a $100 for 2 $20 dances, she suggested $10 which she would have gotten if she didn't imply I needed to tip, she got zero and no more dances later.
Kylea2
08-21-2010, 06:20 PM
^^^ I usually ask "Do you need change?" - its a good way of beating around the bush to ask if he's going to be generous. Although, with a $100, I would probably just give the regular change back & hope he tips.
^^^ I usually ask "Do you need change?" - its a good way of beating around the bush to ask if he's going to be generous. Although, with a $100, I would probably just give the regular change back & hope he tips.I round up most of the time assuming a good dance.
FBR
Arialandre
08-22-2010, 03:03 PM
I say charge whatever you're going to charge so long as you tell them up front and don't pull a price out of your ass after all is said and done. Also don't dance 5 songs and say it was 8 that is just so sleezy.
He:"But you said the dances were $20 per"
She:"Yeah but I am so ON it tonight and those dances were extra hot so it's $30"
Me:" Wooow, that is sooo Jerry Springer*, and I mean that in the worst way possible"
*Jerry Springer = ass backwards and hella trashy
JoeUnCool
08-22-2010, 05:19 PM
I say charge whatever you're going to charge so long as you tell them up front and don't pull a price out of your ass after all is said and done. Also don't dance 5 songs and say it was 8 that is just so sleezy.
He:"But you said the dances were $20 per"
She:"Yeah but I am so ON it tonight and those dances were extra hot so it's $30"
Me:" Wooow, that is sooo Jerry Springer*, and I mean that in the worst way possible"
*Jerry Springer = ass backwards and hella trashy
Aria, if u keep talking like this, I might have to make it to BC for a bunch of dances and VIP time. it's refreshing to hear someone, anyone say "Tell the truth" and "Long live Capitalism." Do you dance for ugly fat white guys? Can you grind on me without being completely disgusted and throwing up on me?
mortalman
08-22-2010, 06:29 PM
Do you dance for ugly fat white guys?
I think they all do that. ;D
Can you grind on me without being completely disgusted and throwing up on me?
That might be a problem :-\
Kylea2
08-22-2010, 06:33 PM
it's refreshing to hear someone, anyone say "Tell the truth" and "Long live Capitalism."
Please tell me you do realize that a number of us have been saying exactly that.
JoeUnCool
08-22-2010, 08:09 PM
Please tell me you do realize that a number of us have been saying exactly that.
As stated in a previous post on this thread, I have no problem in a girl setting their own price which can be more or less as long as it is disclosed upfront. its that truth in advertising thing that is lacking in a club.
I also said in that same post that I had no problem with capitalism. One of the fundamental tenants is that you charge for a product on a service what the market will bear. You can then enter into negotiations. When a girl does that, she just about has me in her control. Not over her looks, but the fact that I found someone that knows/loves capitalism as much as I do.
I find that house dancers tend to not understand any of this. If a club is full, guess what, she will take the chance that she can make money elsewhere. When the club isn't full, well, then I have a shot.
Kylea2
08-22-2010, 08:19 PM
^^^ Okay, just checking. By the way, have you read the book "Greed Is Good: the Capitalist Pig Guide to Investing"? It's a bit dated now, but still a great book!
JoeUnCool
08-22-2010, 08:36 PM
^^^ Okay, just checking. By the way, have you read the book "Greed Is Good: the Capitalist Pig Guide to Investing"? It's a bit dated now, but still a great book!
No, but Gordon Gekko is my hero.
hockeybobby
08-22-2010, 08:38 PM
Terry Fox is my hero...but hey, we all march to a different drummer.
Chili Palmer
08-23-2010, 12:17 PM
Wow, this may be the most Bizarro-world thread in the history of SCJ. A bunch of customers essentially stating, "Go ahead, rip me off. Just tell me first." And then excusing this behavior (on both sides) under the guise of "capitalism."
I've paid $2.00 for a burger and I've paid $20. I've paid just about every sum in between, too. You know when I paid $20? When the menu stated that's what a burger cost there.
I've paid $5 for laps, $10, $20, $30, $40 and even $50 for laps. If you want a lap dance at EcstacyTheatre in Santa Ana, you pay $50. Whether or not it is overpriced for the value received isn't the question, that's what the club charges for laps, so that's what I pay if I want a lap there, if I don't, I can go down the street to the Sahara Theatre in Anaheim, where laps are less than half that price. That's capitalism, people. Charging above the listed rates because you can isn't capitalism, it's thievery.
Most states have what is called an "item pricing law" which was put into place because scanners can be inaccurate, sometimes accidentally, sometimes on purpose. The net result is still the same: you paid more for a product than you should have. There is a Bureau of Weights & Measures to make sure gas stations actually give you a gallon for your $3.00, not 9/10th's of one. Every state has an office of Consumer Affairs for people who feel they've been ripped off by dishonest contractors. I'd be willing to wager many of those on this site have used one or more of these services in the past, or wished they did once they found about them after a bad experience with a contractor, auto repair shop, or some other store or restaurant. Even the IRS has an ombudsman to make sure that taxpayers who feel they've been wrongfully overcharged on their taxes have a fair say.
Yet post after post here basically gives dancers a pass and a patronizing "attagirl" pat on the head to those who expound on the practice of overcharging in a club. The rationalization used is "don't blame me because I'm a good salesperson and I can talk people into paying 50%-to-100% too much," which essentially perverts what actual salesmanship is about. How would you like a salesperson to come to your home or place of business, see BMWs parked out front and think to himself, "Okay, these people are gonna pay more than the people down the street for the same product/service"? It's wrong in every situation, and there is never a justification for doing so. Period.
You know what part of my job is now? After my company has paid a famous actor many thousands of dollars to talk about our product, after we've paid many hundreds of dollars to run that ad on radio, after we've paid many more thousands to set up a call center to receive those calls and the people who staff it bonuses for setting up appointments, part of my job is to try to KILL THAT LEAD. I get on the phone and ask the homeowner another 15 questions or so, and if he/she answers incorrectly to any of them, I won't send someone to their home (no matter how much they ask me to), because we cannot save them money. Now, I have no doubt we could still sell them our product, especially with the quality salesforce we have, but it would be wrong to sell someone something just because we can, not because it's the right thing to do.
Anyway, I'm tired of this subject. You guys wanna let girls rip you off, have at it. Just don't call it capitalism, because it's not, and don't call it salesmanship, because it most certainly is not that, either.
CP
HBlowfish
08-23-2010, 02:08 PM
The 'menu' at a strip club is whatever the dancer tells you beforehand. And your views on capitalism versus thievery are so fucking stupid that I had to stop lurking, just to let know.
yoda57us
08-23-2010, 02:18 PM
I've paid $5 for laps, $10, $20, $30, $40 and even $50 for laps. If you want a lap dance at EcstacyTheatre in Santa Ana, you pay $50. Whether or not it is overpriced for the value received isn't the question, that's what the club charges for laps, so that's what I pay if I want a lap there, if I don't, I can go down the street to the Sahara Theatre in Anaheim, where laps are less than half that price. That's capitalism, people. Charging above the listed rates because you can isn't capitalism, it's thievery.
While I agree with this Chili there is one problem. In many cases in 2010 clubs don't have a listed price for LD's! My favorite club in Providence had signs for years in their private dance area stating that topless dances were $25 per song. Those signs have been gone for well over a year now. Another club down the street has been known for years as having fluid dance prices and I have been quoted from $25 to $45 for a topless dance in their. The best one can hope for in Providence is to be aware of what the going rate is, the clubs no longer have or enforce set dance prices. All they are interested in is collecting their cut. The same thing has started to happen in some Mass clubs as well. I am in total agreement that price gouging is thievery but proving it has become more and more difficult over the past several years.
Kylea2
08-23-2010, 07:47 PM
I also want to throw in that there is such a thing as inflation. Many clubs around the country have been charging $20 for lapdances for the past 10 years... meanwhile the price of everything else keeps going up - including the cost of living for dancers, house fees, etc. In some clubs I've seen the management decide to drop the price of lap dances from $20 to $10. The only clubs that I've seen RAISE their prices are VCGH clubs, when they decided they wanted $5 out of every dance on top of house fees & therefore decided to raise the general listed rates for lap dances from $20 to $25.
Also, I'd like to point out that beyond just the fact that we are independent contractors & legally can set our own prices, some clubs like the VCGH chain have it in their contracts that dancers need to let the club know in writing if they plan to have different rates than the clubs listed rates. You know why they do this? Most dancers are too lazy to do what they are supposed to do... so if they catch those dancers changing their rates without notifying the club in writing they have an easy reason to get rid of them. However, the club knows that legally they can not bind us to their set rates.
rickdugan
08-23-2010, 07:55 PM
Anyway, I'm tired of this subject. You guys wanna let girls rip you off, have at it. Just don't call it capitalism, because it's not, and don't call it salesmanship, because it most certainly is not that, either.
A rip off and a girl simply asking for a higher rate are two different things.
Miscounting dances? Not acceptable, period.
A girl determining that her dances are worth a certain price and disclosing that price upfront to the customer? The very definition of capitalism. Fully informed, he can choose to accept the price or not. If he thinks it is too much, and she is not willing to negotiate, then he can move on to another provider.
CP, I enjoy most of your posts, but you seem to feel the need to protect grown adults from themselves. Why only you can answer, but IMHO if a girl offers her services at a certain price and the guy accepts that price, then he clearly felt that the value of the service was worth the price or he would have passed.
In your previous example, did you pay $20 for a McDonald's cheeseburger? I suspect not. You were paying a higher price for the burger because you were in a place where you felt that it might be worth that higher price.
Also, not to try to pick at you, but I can't help noticing a very defensive and aggressive attitude toward dancers that employ certain tactics to extract maximum $$$ from a guy. I understand the instinctual dislike of these games, but these are grown men. I don't get scammed in SCs, and I suspect it doesn't happen to you often, but IMO it is not the responsibility of a dancer to prevent a guy from spending max $$$ on her. If the dumb fuck goes broke in the process then it is on him - he should have kept his head on his shoulders.
Price controls are the antithesis of capitalism. If the guy pays for her services then he obviously felt, at the time, that they were worth it. If he wakes up the next morning and wishes that he hadn't done so, then nobody is to blame but him.
princessjas
08-24-2010, 06:26 AM
Well Chili how do you feel about this? I never charged more than club prices, but I did always make it very clear before the dance that I expected an adequate tip, and I would be honest about what I considered reasonable, which was about $20 or up to $50-$100 for a string of dances. I don't really think I ever lost a sale over this that I can recall either, but I did have a handful of guys refuse to tip after the dance or just hand me $5, so I just never danced for them again.
Was this me being a ROB? The men had the opportunity to pay less for far more contact with other girls and I never attempted a hard sale and was never dishonest. If men were willing to pay a premium for a miniaturized version of a blonde Glamazon, who was I to turn it down? It's not like I enjoyed lap dances, they were pretty awful for me early in my career, so yeah, if a guy wanted one, he had to pay a premium or go find another girl who wasn't so icked out by grinding on his lap while trying to act like it was making her horny too. (Sorry, but this is the truth and why we as dancers don't feel our job is nearly as intimiate as you the customer does, the vast majority of the time I'm on some strange dudes lap, I'm thinking about how I need to do the laundry or something, if I came back to reality, I'd definitely have a MUCH less sexy look on my face and for the first few years I'd have probably barfed.)
Also, if this isn't wrong, how is adjusting your prices any different? I just worded it a bit different.
SerenaSin
08-24-2010, 07:47 AM
I also want to throw in that there is such a thing as inflation. Many clubs around the country have been charging $20 for lapdances for the past 10 years... meanwhile the price of everything else keeps going up - including the cost of living for dancers, house fees, etc. In some clubs I've seen the management decide to drop the price of lap dances from $20 to $10. The only clubs that I've seen RAISE their prices are VCGH clubs, when they decided they wanted $5 out of every dance on top of house fees & therefore decided to raise the general listed rates for lap dances from $20 to $25.
Also, I'd like to point out that beyond just the fact that we are independent contractors & legally can set our own prices, some clubs like the VCGH chain have it in their contracts that dancers need to let the club know in writing if they plan to have different rates than the clubs listed rates. You know why they do this? Most dancers are too lazy to do what they are supposed to do... so if they catch those dancers changing their rates without notifying the club in writing they have an easy reason to get rid of them. However, the club knows that legally they can not bind us to their set rates.
Depends on the club; I work for a club owned by VCGH Corp., and the signs in every single private dance booth say "Dances are a Minimum of $30" (emphasis mine) (the club takes $10 out of each dance so we profit $20). Which implies that a dancer can charge MORE. I might do this if I were in super high demand, and it were super busy on dayshift, and there were other girls doing this, but none of these criteria are present so I don't. I don't see what's wrong with it though. We've got some smokin' hot Barbie-looking girls on nightshift and it gets packed late Sat. nights so it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a guy a little more than $30 to get their attention...remember, IC's "have the right to refuse service to anyone", including customers who are only really offering a $20 profit to the dancer when there are other guys waiting for her and only so many hours in a shift! ;)
If we're using Chili Palmer's burger analogy, what about a restaurant that offers SEVERAL KINDS of burgers? One's just basic ground meat from some sort of hooved mammal on a whitebread bun, the other's ground Kobe beef and mescaline greens and vine-ripened organic tomatoes, drizzled w/ truffle oil on a whole wheat bun? (fuck this is making me hungry now!) They're both "burgers", but entirely different tastes and experiences, and therefore won't be priced the same.
Now maybe you personally don't think the awesome Kobe beef fancy-pants burger is much better than the basic-burger (or worth the price or whatever) because all you care about is getting some protein in you as cheaply and efficiently as possible. That's fine. Stick w/ the cheaper one. But don't hate on folks trying to get their gourmet on.
JoeUnCool
08-24-2010, 07:51 PM
I agree with rick that the situation is about a willing buyer and a willing seller getting together.
As for the dancer's in on this discussion recently, understand, that you are always going to say that you're worth more than the basic price. Its human nature to think that you are the Kobe burger and others are the quarterpounder. Newbs don't get what's going on. The guys in this forum will. I really doubt that the guys in the forum will change their views due to this discussion.
As an added note, if a dancer starts hitting me up for a tip immediately, forget it. I'll cut things off and pay you for your time, and just leave. Continually saying you want a tip kills the whole mindset. I tip when its appropriate. Continually saying you want a tip is inappropriate and a complete buzz kill.
Kylea2
08-24-2010, 07:58 PM
^^^ There's a lot of things the clubs can pass off to new dancers without them thinking twice about, but there are a lot of us on here that aren't new... & even if we were the inflation issue exists for everyone.
minnow
08-25-2010, 03:03 AM
Interesting how a dormant thread recently morphed into Ethics 101 debate(doing the right thing vs doing what you can get away with), charging what the market will bear by whatever means, stagnation of lapdance prices over time, etc., wrapped under the banner of capitalism.
Weighing in on point #1- applying a common sense "Golden Rule" (treating others how you would wish to be treated) would be a good starting point guideline. For example, a bottled water distributor doubling his price or more in a drought stricken area is lower than a snakes belly because he is taking advantage of the misfortunes of others. Furthermore, I doubt that he'd like similar treatment if the tables were turned. Yet I would not begrudge a heating/ac serviceman, plumber, or locksmith charging a premium for weekend/odd hours service. While I'd initially blanch at writing the check, I understand full well that I'd like similar compensation for my time if I were called to work on my "normal" time off.
PJ- I personally think asking for tips in advance is tacky. I wonder if you'd recommend a car dealer to friends/family that met discount dealers "sticker price" but tacked on a $500 "documentation fee" to final price for you to drive the car out the door?
K2- Yes, I'm aware of several clubs that haven't raised lapdance prices in several years. Yet, I don't see a shortage of dancers willing to work at those payouts. Which tells me that dance (strip) earnings are attractive enough vs "civilian alternatives" out there to continue. Then too, several segments of workplace have seen wage stagnation, or even regression.
Getting back to stripclub dancer/customer dynamics: I recall one dancer who "upfronted" me wrongly at one club. I subsequently saw her at 2nd new club a few months later. I turned down multiple dance requests from her . ( I don't think she remembered me from 1st club). I've also seen some other dancers move to different clubs- the ones who treated me right in 1st club got repeat business from me in both clubs. What goes around comes around. 8)
rickdugan
08-25-2010, 06:05 AM
This whole thread touches upon a point of irritation for me. This is not a shot at what CP said per se, but more a general point about guys that whine about the various hustles and gimmicks that dancers run.
First of all, let's be stupidly clear: It really IS all about the money for her. Discussions of cosmic karma and other humanitarian concepts are great for debates in the Ivory Tower, but won't put food in the bellies of dancers or their families. Times are tough in these clubs and $$$ is hard to come by, so you can bet your ass that if she can sell you something then she is going to do so.
Second, men who whine like little sissies and don't understand that THEY have most of the control in the transaction just drive me nuts. If you don't like what you are being sold, then DON'T BUY IT. Is there some God given right to lapdances for every man? Does anyone NEED to have a lapdance?
The customer has all of the control right until he pulls his money out and gives it to her. If you did a poor job in sniffing out a lame gimmick, then it is your fault. It is not HER job to keep a guy from being stupid, it is his.
Fall for an ITC bait and switch? Too fucking bad, you should have sniffed it out and/or cut your losses by not purchasing any more from her. You also could have done some some upfront research about the club, which would have gone a long way in telling you whether she was being truthful. Get "tricked" into buying lap dances because she hinted that OTC is available? Tough shit, you should never have bought one predicated upon OTC anyway.
I don't get scammed in the clubs and neither should anyone else. If a guy is not man enough to keep his wits about him, or if he is simply too weak to be firm with the girls, then he should stay out of the damned clubs!
JoeUnCool
08-25-2010, 09:18 AM
^^^ There's a lot of things the clubs can pass off to new dancers without them thinking twice about, but there are a lot of us on here that aren't new... & even if we were the inflation issue exists for everyone.
That is an issue solved in negotiations with management. Customers are not concerned with the inner club dynamics. if the issue is that the club is taking more money and that is driving the need to charge more, then perhaps the better way to handle this is to negotiate with management.
yoda57us
08-25-2010, 12:40 PM
Being ripped-off by a dancer is like porn. I can't always define it but I know it when I see it. While there is no justification for lying about dance counts or lying about dance price there is also no excuse for a guy not to keep track of these particulars as part of the transaction.
Scams? Well, that's a different story but every dancer has to sell in whatever way she can manage to do it. I've seen more dancers playing the OTC card-real or imagined-since the economy tanked. It works on some guys, it doesn't matter to others. In some cases it will keep a guy coming back and in others it will cost you his business if you don't follow through with your promises. This is a chance that many dancers seem willing to take right now.
That being said, in the SC arena I don't see these sort of deceptions as capitol offenses. It's always buyer beware when a naked woman starts making promises as you feed her $20 bills. If it sounds too good to be true is usually is.
The only obligation a dancer has is to deliver dances of the equivalent time or quantity that you are paying for. Anything beyond that-promised or percieved-is a roll of the dice. I've been to a lot of clubs lately and, even with the slow economy, I still have yet to see guys being hit over the head and dragged into these places. If you walk in the door you better know how to handle the advances of a beautiful half naked woman with bills to pay. If you don't it's best not to go in the first place.
Kylea2
08-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Rick - Kudos... you are spot on!
K2- Yes, I'm aware of several clubs that haven't raised lapdance prices in several years. Yet, I don't see a shortage of dancers willing to work at those payouts. Which tells me that dance (strip) earnings are attractive enough vs "civilian alternatives" out there to continue. Then too, several segments of workplace have seen wage stagnation, or even regression.
1.) Stripping is no longer really taboo, the population in general has increased, & jobs are harder to find. I'm sure many of the new dancers didn't exactly want to get into the industry, but its now an option for them that many wouldn't have had 10, 15 or 20 years ago. For example, I have a friend who also has two college degrees in foreign language. She couldn't find a job for a long time & finally took a job at a pet food store making $7.15/hr I believe. Just last week she was let go because the pet food store couldn't afford all their staff. Normally I might suggest dancing, & at this rate she'd probably be willing to do it. However, she's put on a lot of weight & I know there is no way she would get hired. There are TONS of women in her situation though that are slender & can get hired... & many of them are so desperate that they are willing to take off their clothes & grind on peoples laps for $10/hr... which is what it averages out to for many of the new girls because they barely have the skills to sell more than a few dances in a night.
Most people on this forum know that I'm on the road most of the time, & I always hear what the girls say they are making in the dressing room. A few years ago $200/night was what most were averaging... but it keeps slipping down. In many places it's $100 - $150/night now. Recently I've been traveling a lot to a club where the dancers are happy to walk out with $60 -$80/night. In my city there is a club where the girls are averaging about $60-$80/night as well. I'm not willing to dance for that little in the modern gentlemen's club. I can just as easily take burlesque gigs where I perform once a night, don't have to socialize with customers or sell lapdances, & have the owner or event planner hands me $100 - $200 for a single performance. So why do I continue to dance? I think you can figure that out for yourself. 8)
That is an issue solved in negotiations with management. Customers are not concerned with the inner club dynamics. if the issue is that the club is taking more money and that is driving the need to charge more, then perhaps the better way to handle this is to negotiate with management.
It won't happen, especially with large corporations. This is exactly why you see so many of the seasoned professionals ending up in small independently owned clubs where house fees are less & they don't take a portion or each dance, or going fully independent. I've mentioned here before that I think the future of this industry is going more towards a dancer co-op style incall or independent dancing.
JoeUnCool
08-26-2010, 08:21 AM
It won't happen, especially with large corporations. This is exactly why you see so many of the seasoned professionals ending up in small independently owned clubs where house fees are less & they don't take a portion or each dance, or going fully independent. I've mentioned here before that I think the future of this industry is going more towards a dancer co-op style incall or independent dancing.
Actually, you have sent the message. If you won't work at a club run by a large corp, working at an independent club is sending that message. You can't change every person's view, but if enough feel the need to change, then the message will be recieved. Kudos.
princessjas
08-26-2010, 03:21 PM
staff.
Most people on this forum know that I'm on the road most of the time, & I always hear what the girls say they are making in the dressing room. A few years ago $200/night was what most were averaging... but it keeps slipping down. In many places it's $100 - $150/night now. Recently I've been traveling a lot to a club where the dancers are happy to walk out with $60 -$80/night. In my city there is a club where the girls are averaging about $60-$80/night as well. I'm not willing to dance for that little in the modern gentlemen's club. I can just as easily take burlesque gigs where I perform once a night, don't have to socialize with customers or sell lapdances, & have the owner or event planner hands me $100 - $200 for a single performance. So why do I continue to dance? I think you can figure that out for yourself. 8)
Seriously?? I know that my ideas are a product of the 90's but I JUST went back for a few days to finance a vacay and made 1200 one night. I cannot imagine less than 3-400. I guess it kinda makes sense though, I've been just completely flabbergasted these past few years at who they let dance. It's kinda like it they are female and under 200lbs they are hired, while back 15 yrs ago, one in every 100 HOOOT chicks got an ok and they kept like 7 or 8 girls on the rotation, not 50.
Kylea2
08-26-2010, 03:54 PM
Seriously?? I know that my ideas are a product of the 90's but I JUST went back for a few days to finance a vacay and made 1200 one night. I cannot imagine less than 3-400. I guess it kinda makes sense though, I've been just completely flabbergasted these past few years at who they let dance. It's kinda like it they are female and under 200lbs they are hired, while back 15 yrs ago, one in every 100 HOOOT chicks got an ok and they kept like 7 or 8 girls on the rotation, not 50.
I'm very serious. Most clubs keep way too high of a dancer to customer ratio, forcing the dancers to become catty over the money. With most dancers having less than 4 years of experience though a lot of them don't know how to obtain the money that is in the clubs. It also depends on your area though. Like my home region has become hard to make money in because it's so liberal in the regular nightclubs. In the car yesterday I heard a commercial about a "booty shaking contest" at a regular nightclub... & the winner would get a tattoo. Whoop-de-doo. They'll probably have plenty of girls though because no one cares these days. Also, over the summer a local bikini contest suddenly got turned into a booty shaking contest... again another example of my city becoming too liberal & making it harder to make money in the club because guys see so much outside of the strip clubs.
KS_Stevia
08-28-2010, 12:26 PM
This makes me glad I'm retired. Congrats on the $1200 night Jas, way to go!!
Casual Observer
08-29-2010, 06:43 AM
I've been just completely flabbergasted these past few years at who they let dance. It's kinda like it they are female and under 200lbs they are hired, while back 15 yrs ago, one in every 100 HOOOT chicks got an ok and they kept like 7 or 8 girls on the rotation, not 50.
This is sadly true.
It's also why I spend much, much less in the clubs. It's almost like work now and why I've tried finding private dancers during my travels.
Kylea2
08-29-2010, 07:43 PM
It's also why I spend much, much less in the clubs. It's almost like work now and why I've tried finding private dancers during my travels.
Good for you! I'm starting to think this just works so much better for most parties involved.
Casual Observer
09-01-2010, 06:44 AM
^ True, for me anyway, though I'm more likely to have this kind of success hiring an escort than a dancer; even after figuring out I'm not an ax-murder troll club dancers are frequently either too scared or too dumb to do the math to see how a private arrangement is just better all around.
yoda57us
09-01-2010, 09:38 AM
^ True, for me anyway, though I'm more likely to have this kind of success hiring an escort than a dancer; even after figuring out I'm not an ax-murder troll club dancers are frequently either too scared or too dumb to do the math to see how a private arrangement is just better all around.
Agreed. This may circle back into the OTC vs. escort debate but I think that has become unavoidable when the talk turns to P4P sex in the 21st century. Some dancers will just come right out and quote you a price for OTC but the vast majority feel the need to make it a very frustrating and costly cat and mouse game. It's just easier to call an escort and, quite frankly, once you have a few regs or an agency that you trust, it's a better guarantee of good sex. Yes, it can be very mechanical if you make the wrong choice but guys who do it all the time figure out (1) how to maximize your options for a good time and (2) an average night of sex is still better than no sex at all. Even a quickie one-and-done from a clock-watcher is no worse than the average lap dance experience nowadays...
Kylea2
09-01-2010, 09:56 AM
^ True, for me anyway, though I'm more likely to have this kind of success hiring an escort than a dancer; even after figuring out I'm not an ax-murder troll club dancers are frequently either too scared or too dumb to do the math to see how a private arrangement is just better all around.
;D Well, I'm not dumb. I totally would rather have the money for myself. Although arguably I normally still have to pay for space & security.
Agreed. This may circle back into the OTC vs. escort debate but I think that has become unavoidable when the talk turns to P4P sex in the 21st century. Some dancers will just come right out and quote you a price for OTC but the vast majority feel the need to make it a very frustrating and costly cat and mouse game. It's just easier to call an escort and, quite frankly, once you have a few regs or an agency that you trust, it's a better guarantee of good sex. Yes, it can be very mechanical if you make the wrong choice but guys who do it all the time figure out (1) how to maximize your options for a good time and (2) an average night of sex is still better than no sex at all. Even a quickie one-and-done from a clock-watcher is no worse than the average lap dance experience nowadays...
First, club dancers are scared with good reason. In my state a dancer in 98% of the clubs could get a ticket for prostitution if she agreed to meet outside the club to dance & isn't licensed as a private dancer. There is only 1 club that I'm not sure about because it's new & in a city I've never worked.
If you are looking for sex then yes, an escort is a better option. I don't think you should ever even set up the expectation of sex from a dancer.
Harleigh HellKat
09-01-2010, 10:12 AM
Thank you Kylea... many guys don't understand how sketchy ITC and OTC is, especially in the bible belt. You never know who you may be talking to, so yeah. It is scary.
As far as dancers being dumb.... no I don't think that's the case either. Some women have boundaries. Some clean dancers do very well for themselves. There are many tiers in the sex worker industry, from clothed fetish and pin up, to escorting and porn which may actually involve sex. I don't blame anyone for wanting to stay in their comfort zone.
Casual Observer
09-01-2010, 10:50 AM
If you are looking for sex then yes, an escort is a better option. I don't think you should ever even set up the expectation of sex from a dancer.
I guess that was my point--even just looking for a dancer, I have a better chance of a positive experience with an escort in terms of availability, aesthetic appeal and flexibility, especially when I'm on the road.
Redwolf
09-01-2010, 11:19 AM
Good points, Harleigh.
Certainly there are dancers that want to dance and get money but don't want any contact or touch. There are others that don't mind the contact for the money. There are still others that might actually enjoy a little contact on the rare occassion with the right client.
I understand and will even counsel a beginner to think about what boundaries she wants to maintain. If she is asked for OTC extras, she is better off if she has thought it through first. Even customers have certain boundaries.
I know well that a dancer's job is to make money. What bothers me is when a dancer will put out the least effort possible to make the money that she can. You know, the dancer that hustles you for the $350 to the champagne room only to go through the motions while she makes her grocery list. She's got the money already and she believes that her hard work at this point will only bring her an extra tip. Of course, she doesn't realize that she burned her bridge and that there will never be repeat business.
Sometimes an non-VIP table/lap dance will be pretty uninspiring. The lady claims that she is holding something back for the VIP. Well, if I wasn't inspired to to want more, then that is the end with her. Please, to all, be honest and no false upsale.
On the other hand, a customer could negotiate with a dancer in need with bills to pay and few customers with money such that he 'scores' for little payment.
I still hold that the best result is when the customer feels that he has had great service (whatever that may entail) and the dancer feels that she was well compensated for her time and work. He will be back to enjoy her company and contact again, and she will look for him at her club.
My first time ever in a strip club, I was probably back in the VIP within a song or two. The lady, after telling me the situation, honestly shared that she is guaranteed to make more if we go to the champagne room ($150 or $200 for a half hour vs. $20 for one song), but if she takes me to the VIP room and keeps me back there with her dances she will do better and the club will get less of her money and she will keep more of it. Needless to say, we had 7 or 8 very hot dances in the VIP. She stayed at my table when she wasn't working for other dances. I bought her several drinks. I know that I had her dance at least once more that night and also had her and another girl dance for me together. She was well-compensated that night and I had a great time.
yoda57us
09-01-2010, 04:17 PM
If you are looking for sex then yes, an escort is a better option. I don't think you should ever even set up the expectation of sex from a dancer.
Lol, well, I'm not and I don't. I was simply explaining the reasons why.
While I agree with your reasoning Kylea there are obviously plenty of dancers who offer OTC or, at the very least, use it as a tease in many of the clubs we go to. For better or worse it's out there and, believe it or not, when it happens to me I'm not the one who puts the offer on the table.
Kylea2
09-02-2010, 02:01 AM
For better or worse it's out there and, believe it or not, when it happens to me I'm not the one who puts the offer on the table.
I believe you. Some dancers are not sly about their offers at all, & I have two ears to hear with. I often over-hear negotiations during lap dances.
yoda57us
09-02-2010, 08:03 PM
I believe you. Some dancers are not sly about their offers at all, & I have two ears to hear with. I often over-hear negotiations during lap dances.
It's actually pretty amazing to me how indiscreet some girls are about this.
ilbbaicnl
09-13-2010, 07:54 AM
hah ill be honest, if most the dancers at the club we worked at started pulling walmart deals and rollin back the prices, i wouldnt be too threatened. heck maybe you will get 2 dances for 5$, but you are still at risk to getting squished like a bug. but then again, maybe some customers are into the thrill of not knowing whether or not they will come out of a lapdance alive }:D.
Who do you hate more, customers or "fat" dancers?